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I am Thinking of Coming Out to My Christian friends


Guest Confused

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Guest Confused

I am in my mid-twenties, and two of my closest university friends are Christians. We have been friends for 3-4 years and even went multiple trips overseas together. However, they are not aware that i am gay, and i have been delaying coming out to them fearing that it might ruin the friendship.

 

Actually, i have joined a few of their church activities before, and even sang in their Choir. I know many of their church friends and they know me as well. Recently, our meetings are getting more revolved around their church and i feel myself getting pulled into somewhere that i am not very comfortable with. They even invited me for their 3 days church retreat overseas, which i suspect will include a lot of religious activities. I feel like rejecting, but can;t think of a good reason to + i really want to hang out with them too, if not for the religious matters. 

 

I can feel that they are trying to evangelise me, and i am not interested at the moment. I am thinking of just coming out to them- let them know that I am not interested in too many religious activities, but im afriad that the friendship will be destroyed. Their Church stance on homosexuality is clear- it is incompatible with Christianity.

 

What should i do...? Do you all have many christian friends? And how did they react when you came out to them.

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One question that comes to mind is:  do you NEED to come out to them?

There are may valid reasons you may not like to be evangelized, which have no sexual connotation.  The simplest one is: you don't believe, you are an agnostic.  You like the church and its people, you like to sing in its choir,  but you cannot get yourself to believe in its dogmas.  Have they asked you if you are gay?   You can uphold the virtue of being truthful and tell them if they ask,  but until then... no ask, no tell!

 

I am a Catholic and attended 9 years of Catholic schools.  I went for many years with my family to a Unitarian church and sang in their choir.  No one ever questioned my sexual orientation  (I had a wife and kids,  he he).  Even today I only come out on a need-to-know basis.  It is no one's business but mine.

 

Christianity is only moderately anti-gay.  At least in their major denominations.  This does not keep some charismatics from being fanatically homophobic, and there is no lack of this in Singapore.  So if the church of your friends is only mildly opposed because of some words in the Bible and is not actively homophobic,  you could join them as any normal person, which you are.  If your friends ever realize that you are gay,  you haven't lied to them but they never asked,  and then...  it could be the time to evangelize them with pro-gay Christianity, like the Episcopalians practice.  Read the book "God Believes in Love",  by the Episcopalian bishop Gene Robinson. 

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Guest Homosexual Christian

Hey Guest Confused. I do understand where you're coming from, and your concerns. I come from a Christian family and have many traditional Christian friends.

 

Actually a lot of my Christian friends are non homophobic. Surprisingly, it's the traditional churches which are less homophobic. While they see homosexual sexual acts as sin, they are not homophobic generally, especially the younger generations. 

 

I think you need to separate faith and the homosexual attraction. I too have recently been attracted to guys, and even had a BF now. I know some of the things I did (hook ups and all) are a sin. I admit them. But believing in God is not because I sin or don't sin. Believing in God is because I was given that faith. And accepting Christ is purely because I admit that I'm a sinner. 

I know of some Christian friends, because they had homosexual tendencies, left the church because they can't reconcile them.

 

A belief does not depends on your sexual attraction! It's wrong to say God doesn't exist, because I'm homosexual or because the Bible says homosexual sexual acts are a sin.

It's like someone who has problem with a particular sin, e.g greed, choose to leave church just because the Bible says greed is a sin. You can replace "greed" with every common or uncommon sins.

 

Now as for coming out to your friends, I agree with @Steve5380 that you are not obligated to come out to them unless they ask you. And if they ask, they should already be mentally prepared to even ask. So by then, they probably even have prayed for themselves to have a loving heart before they dare to ask you. It takes a lot of courage and love on their part to ask you and try to understand you. It takes a lot of love for them to also tell you it's a sin even after you come out to them. 

 

Now about whether you should continue to go to church.

You need to Seriously consider the authenticity of the Faith. Do you really believe? Are you certain it's not true or its true?

Also, if you're not certain, do you want to know more? If yes, why not continue to find out more together with your friends? 

 

 

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Guest ask yourself first

The question I would ask myself is: Do I feel comfortable?

And Steve is right. Either you believe or not. If you don't feel comfortable you might stay away.

Anyway, it would be a tool to test true friendship if these guys will stick around with you outside of church activities. If yes, then chances are high that they consider you as a true friend. If not, then maybe they are not.

If being gay is so important to you to let others know the confess, if not you might be advised to be careful in coming out. Many Asian Christian react very harsh. A lady friend of mine told me straight in the face that I m a bad sinner. I stopped talking to her.

 

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  • G_M changed the title to I am Thinking of Coming Out to My Christian friends

Assuming you are in Singapore, most churches here do not approve of homosexuality. Some have outrightly condemned people like us. 

If ever you feel convicted you have found God in Christianity ( through the sharing from your friends ) but find it impossible to reconcile with your sexual orientation,

you may want to look up for Free Community Church, here is their website https://www.freecomchurch.org 

Edited by Dart
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Guest Straight forward

If its a good friend be open about it... If its friend you can opt to be open about it... When you come to a certain age.. people will walk out your life or vice versa.. it doesnt really matter on your orientation.. just know that if you are being look upon differently or being regard in anyway.. you can either grow up or stay naive and simple... few advice, I never want to be open about it because if you are good looking chance is that friends might advance on you if you have no interest with your circle of friends .. it will be awkward as time goes by... Something remains untold until you introduce your partner and yourself someday...

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6 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

I think you need to separate faith and the homosexual attraction. I too have recently been attracted to guys, and even had a BF now. I know some of the things I did (hook ups and all) are a sin. I admit them. But believing in God is not because I sin or don't sin. Believing in God is because I was given that faith. And accepting Christ is purely because I admit that I'm a sinner. 

I know of some Christian friends, because they had homosexual tendencies, left the church because they can't reconcile them.

 

A belief does not depends on your sexual attraction! It's wrong to say God doesn't exist, because I'm homosexual or because the Bible says homosexual sexual acts are a sin.

It's like someone who has problem with a particular sin, e.g greed, choose to leave church just because the Bible says greed is a sin. You can replace "greed" with every common or uncommon sins.

 

 

We gays have been given the opportunity to realize that homosexuality IS NOT voluntary.  And beyond that,  if we are open minded and realistic we can realize with certainty that the morality of homosexuality is not inferior in any way to the morality of heterosexuality, and it does not make sense that homosexuality is a "sin" when heterosexuality is not. We gain this knowledge from personal experience,  not some hearsay.  People who are heterosexuals don't have this personal experience, and they have to relay on what others say and what they read,  and so make ignorant judgments of gays.

 

This is important for religious faith.  Religions in their core have many similarities, differing mainly in their history and the stories they tell (their dogmas).  There is no evidence of the truth of religious dogmas,  this is why they are a matter of "faith" and not science.  In some religions the lack of faith is in itself a sin,  and the only explanation for this imposition is that they use "sin" as a scare tactic. We don't need to fall for that.

 

We gays can confront our KNOWLEDGE of homosexuality with the dogmas of some religions, that is the hearsay we get of their religious speculations that homosexuality is sinful.   We OWE IT to ourselves to trust first our inborn reason and experience, and reject these religious speculations.

 

And then comes the last stage of analysis.  Can a true religion have false dogmas?  We can justify a false dogma by attributing it to the human element in the chain of its knowledge.  But if we can do this with one dogma, why not do it with others,  and eventually with the whole doctrine?   As a Catholic, I should believe that the Holy Spirit has inspired and is inspiring the humans in the church to prevent falsities to appear in the Catholic doctrine.  But I KNOW that one dogma is false.   ONE single absurdity in the proof of a theorem renders the whole theorem invalid.  Given the utmost relevance of religious dogmas,  which should be "absolute truth",  we should hold religions at least to the same standard (of probability versus exactitude) , that is:  false dogma -> false doctrine -> false religion.

 

None of this should be taken too seriously.  We should have the right to not believe, and if it turns out that a God really exist, he should be so much smarter to understand and justify our agnostic thinking.  Meanwhile we can put our analytical mind to rest and enjoy whatever we like in a religion, be it the love it preaches,  be it the ceremonial part, the church ornaments, the smell of incense, the organ music or the gregarious coffee meetings after the services.   :)

 

I hope these ideas help in debating how to deal with the religiousness of good friends and if to come out to them or not.

.

 

Edited by Steve5380
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Guest Confused
10 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

Hey Guest Confused. I do understand where you're coming from, and your concerns. I come from a Christian family and have many traditional Christian friends.

 

Actually a lot of my Christian friends are non homophobic. Surprisingly, it's the traditional churches which are less homophobic. While they see homosexual sexual acts as sin, they are not homophobic generally, especially the younger generations. 

 

I think you need to separate faith and the homosexual attraction. I too have recently been attracted to guys, and even had a BF now. I know some of the things I did (hook ups and all) are a sin. I admit them. But believing in God is not because I sin or don't sin. Believing in God is because I was given that faith. And accepting Christ is purely because I admit that I'm a sinner. 

I know of some Christian friends, because they had homosexual tendencies, left the church because they can't reconcile them.

 

A belief does not depends on your sexual attraction! It's wrong to say God doesn't exist, because I'm homosexual or because the Bible says homosexual sexual acts are a sin.

It's like someone who has problem with a particular sin, e.g greed, choose to leave church just because the Bible says greed is a sin. You can replace "greed" with every common or uncommon sins.

 

Now as for coming out to your friends, I agree with @Steve5380 that you are not obligated to come out to them unless they ask you. And if they ask, they should already be mentally prepared to even ask. So by then, they probably even have prayed for themselves to have a loving heart before they dare to ask you. It takes a lot of courage and love on their part to ask you and try to understand you. It takes a lot of love for them to also tell you it's a sin even after you come out to them. 

 

Now about whether you should continue to go to church.

You need to Seriously consider the authenticity of the Faith. Do you really believe? Are you certain it's not true or its true?

Also, if you're not certain, do you want to know more? If yes, why not continue to find out more together with your friends? 

 

 

Thanks for long response, appreciate it. I am quite uncertain about christianity and definitetly will want to find out more, but i don't think these friends will be able to convince me because they do not think very deeply about the concepts. I tried to have a discussion with them before, but its not very useful. Ultimately, the journey will be depending on myself- ill have to do my own research on christianity and some other religion which i do intend to do after my exam is over. 

I did benefits a lot from my christian friends and acquaintances, so i am grateful for that. But for the belieft itself, i am still more of an agnostic. 

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Guest Confused
12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

One question that comes to mind is:  do you NEED to come out to them?

There are may valid reasons you may not like to be evangelized, which have no sexual connotation.  The simplest one is: you don't believe, you are an agnostic.  You like the church and its people, you like to sing in its choir,  but you cannot get yourself to believe in its dogmas.  Have they asked you if you are gay?   You can uphold the virtue of being truthful and tell them if they ask,  but until then... no ask, no tell!

 

I am a Catholic and attended 9 years of Catholic schools.  I went for many years with my family to a Unitarian church and sang in their choir.  No one ever questioned my sexual orientation  (I had a wife and kids,  he he).  Even today I only come out on a need-to-know basis.  It is no one's business but mine.

 

Christianity is only moderately anti-gay.  At least in their major denominations.  This does not keep some charismatics from being fanatically homophobic, and there is no lack of this in Singapore.  So if the church of your friends is only mildly opposed because of some words in the Bible and is not actively homophobic,  you could join them as any normal person, which you are.  If your friends ever realize that you are gay,  you haven't lied to them but they never asked,  and then...  it could be the time to evangelize them with pro-gay Christianity, like the Episcopalians practice.  Read the book "God Believes in Love",  by the Episcopalian bishop Gene Robinson. 

I guess I can choose not to come out, but they are starting to talk about relationship issues (my friends are girls actually), and every time I have to give an excuse. It feels tiring to have to hide from one of your closest group of friends therefore i kinda want to come out for my own sake as well. Plus I do feel quite uncomfortable going to the church and having to hide so many things about myself 

Maybe it's time for me to make some gay friends since I have none, since most of them are christian friends right now. I'll give more thoughts to it, its a tradeoff between being uncomfortable for holding an important lie from my friends, versus coming out and risk damaging the friendships. 

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Guest Confused
7 hours ago, Dart said:

Assuming you are in Singapore, most churches here do not approve of homosexuality. Some have outrightly condemned people like us. 

If ever you feel convicted you have found God in Christianity ( through the sharing from your friends ) but find it impossible to reconcile with your sexual orientation,

you may want to look up for Free Community Church, here is their website https://www.freecomchurch.org 

Haha, i definitely considered going FCC. I am not a christian for now, but i do find Christian guys quite attractive... so that might be the best place to find a christian bf (who is not against homosexuality)

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25 minutes ago, Guest Confused said:

I guess I can choose not to come out, but they are starting to talk about relationship issues (my friends are girls actually), and every time I have to give an excuse. It feels tiring to have to hide from one of your closest group of friends therefore i kinda want to come out for my own sake as well. Plus I do feel quite uncomfortable going to the church and having to hide so many things about myself 

Maybe it's time for me to make some gay friends since I have none, since most of them are christian friends right now. I'll give more thoughts to it, its a tradeoff between being uncomfortable for holding an important lie from my friends, versus coming out and risk damaging the friendships. 

 

If you are in the closet, you are NOT holding an important LIE from anybody, but a FACT that should not be important to anybody but a few people you decide on.  And there is nothing wrong about discretely hiding.  Don't all normal people HIDE their cocks and pussies from each other?   Don't they HIDE when they go to the restroom?

 

Ahh.. your friends are girls who find you attractive and want a relationship with plenty of hot sex!!  Oh, I am so sorry!  Life is unfair, this is what I have thought when nice women found me attractive.  This makes things a little more difficult.  How you explain to your friends that you are not urging to have sex with them?

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Irregardless of what religion u believe, i dont think there is any religion that support gay and our society is not really for it, so better dont take any chance to anyhow come out, the consequences might not be something that u can handle.

Edited by lonelyglobe
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Guest InBangkoc
3 hours ago, Guest Confused said:

c I am not a christian for now, but i do find Christian guys quite attractive... so that might be the best place to find a christian bf (who is not against homosexuality)

 

I wonder what you mean by "attractive"? Is it attractive because they are good friends or attractive just because they are Christian? Do you mean that most Christian guys in general are attractive?

 

I think the important thing is that you must be yourself. Please never adopt manners or become a member of a Church unless that is what you WANT to do. If your friends really are close friends and they accept you as a close riend, you may be surprised at how understanding they can be if you come out to them. If they cannot accept you for who you are, I suggest they should not be categorised as good friends!

 

That said, I fully understand it takes courage to come out. If you are not out to your family, then coming out to your friends may seem  too difficult as one of your friends may inadvertently tell them. My only other advice is to try NEVER to be be afraid of what you do. Assess each situation and then come to a decision and stick to it. You are obviously concerned that your friends will reject you. I don't think that will happen - certainly not with all of them - but if it does, try to remembercthere are many others around who will become your friends in the futurec

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Guest Homosexual Christian
7 hours ago, Guest Confused said:

Thanks for long response, appreciate it. I am quite uncertain about christianity and definitetly will want to find out more, but i don't think these friends will be able to convince me because they do not think very deeply about the concepts. I tried to have a discussion with them before, but its not very useful. Ultimately, the journey will be depending on myself- ill have to do my own research on christianity and some other religion which i do intend to do after my exam is over. 

I did benefits a lot from my christian friends and acquaintances, so i am grateful for that. But for the belieft itself, i am still more of an agnostic. 

 

Hi Guest Confused, I applaud your willingness to find out more after your exams are over. Many of my friends are too lazy to even think about it. 

 

I too have been thinking deeply about it. As someone with homosexual inclinations now, I do secretly wish that somehow we all misunderstood the Bible, and that all I'm doing (hooking up with guys) is not wrong. I'm also secretly thinking maybe the Bible isn't even true. 

 

But if I'm being honest with myself, I can't sincerely accept that. I still see much evidence towards a biblical God and believe with all my heart. And I think it's the grace of God. 

 

I wish I could be there to help you in your exploration and research into Christianity. To look deeper into it, not just the surface. But since both of us are guests here, it's hard for us to connect. 

 

I don't know who you are, but I will keep you in prayer. 

 

 

 

 

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Guest Confused
46 minutes ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

Hi Guest Confused, I applaud your willingness to find out more after your exams are over. Many of my friends are too lazy to even think about it. 

 

I too have been thinking deeply about it. As someone with homosexual inclinations now, I do secretly wish that somehow we all misunderstood the Bible, and that all I'm doing (hooking up with guys) is not wrong. I'm also secretly thinking maybe the Bible isn't even true. 

 

But if I'm being honest with myself, I can't sincerely accept that. I still see much evidence towards a biblical God and believe with all my heart. And I think it's the grace of God. 

 

I wish I could be there to help you in your exploration and research into Christianity. To look deeper into it, not just the surface. But since both of us are guests here, it's hard for us to connect. 

 

I don't know who you are, but I will keep you in prayer. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Guest Homosexual Christian, I do have some basic understanding of how Bible portray Homosexuality. From what I have read, you agree that homosexuality is a sin according to the bible.  You feel that the homosexual acts you have committed (such as hookups) and being in a homosexual relationship(BF) are sinful and you are feeling guilty about it? Although you have a boyfriend now, won't your religion eventually get in the way of your relationship? 

 

There is one thing I am very clear about, I will definitely not give up my homosexual relationship for religion. 

 

Thanks for the prayer :)

 

Just curious, are you from a traditional church instead of Free Community Church?

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First of all ask yourself whether what is wrong with loving someone, regardless of genders?

 

If u can deal with this, u will have no qualms dealing with any community who condemn it.

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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2 hours ago, fab said:

First of all ask yourself whether what is wrong with loving someone, regardless of genders?

 

If u can deal with this, u will have no qualms dealing with any community who condemn it.

 

Even if you don't have qualms dealing with them,  they may have qualms dealing with you if you come out!

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3 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

Hi Guest Confused, I applaud your willingness to find out more after your exams are over. Many of my friends are too lazy to even think about it. 

 

I too have been thinking deeply about it. As someone with homosexual inclinations now, I do secretly wish that somehow we all misunderstood the Bible, and that all I'm doing (hooking up with guys) is not wrong. I'm also secretly thinking maybe the Bible isn't even true. 

 

But if I'm being honest with myself, I can't sincerely accept that. I still see much evidence towards a biblical God and believe with all my heart. And I think it's the grace of God. 

 

I wish I could be there to help you in your exploration and research into Christianity. To look deeper into it, not just the surface. But since both of us are guests here, it's hard for us to connect. 

 

I don't know who you are, but I will keep you in prayer. 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Guest Confused said:

 

Hi Guest Homosexual Christian, I do have some basic understanding of how Bible portray Homosexuality. From what I have read, you agree that homosexuality is a sin according to the bible.  You feel that the homosexual acts you have committed (such as hookups) and being in a homosexual relationship(BF) are sinful and you are feeling guilty about it? Although you have a boyfriend now, won't your religion eventually get in the way of your relationship? 

 

There is one thing I am very clear about, I will definitely not give up my homosexual relationship for religion. 

 

Thanks for the prayer :)

 

Just curious, are you from a traditional church instead of Free Community Church?

 

Hi Guest Homosexual Christian and Guest Confused,

 

These are the 6 Bible verses ( cobbler passages ) the conventional churches use against homosexuality :

Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Corinthian 6:9-10,  1 Timothy 1:10 and Romans  1:26-27

 

When considering these scriptures, it is important to understand the followings:

(1) The Context and the Background when these scriptures come about.

(2 ) The Credibility of Translation from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek to English and other languages.

 

If we continue to believe homosexuality is a sin, we will always be living in guilt and will eventually distant ourselves from Him.

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Guest Guest

I don't get it. They are only your close friends, and you are getting so confused over this? In that case, how would you feel if they are your parents? 

 

Asians believe that one should put your parents above yourself. If your confusion is because of your dilemma with your parents, it can still scrape through as being understandable. But for heavens sake (pun intended), they are just your friends, no matter how close you are with them. If you need to put them above yourself just so that you can get into their social circle at the expense of shaping yourself to become someone you are not, then I think you might be better off looking for friends who can accept you for who you are. In your mid 20s, the world is your oyster. You should go around looking for more friends instead of sticking to those few. Don't waste your youth on people who are not deserving of your kindness. Somewhere in this universe of relationships, you need to prioritize yourself to be higher than some people. I am speaking from my own experience here. 

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3 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

I too have been thinking deeply about it. As someone with homosexual inclinations now, I do secretly wish that somehow we all misunderstood the Bible, and that all I'm doing (hooking up with guys) is not wrong. I'm also secretly thinking maybe the Bible isn't even true. 

 

But if I'm being honest with myself, I can't sincerely accept that. I still see much evidence towards a biblical God and believe with all my heart. And I think it's the grace of God. 

 

 

You don't need to be secretive with yourself.  Not if you want to be honest with yourself.  What you write sounds honestly like you have doubts about your faith.

 

And you are correct that you believe with all your heart.  This means FEELINGS. 

Religiousness is FEELINGS and we should remind ourselves that FEELINGS don't necessarily reflect reality. 

 

We don't know your age, but if you are an adult it is time that you let reason have a say, an influence in your feelings.

Religious doubt is common in even the most advanced religious leaders. There is nothing wrong with it.

 

I suggest that you read the book "God Believes in Love" by Gene Robinson, which I mentioned earlier.  

Robinson is a retired bishop of the Episcopalian denomination, openly gay and married. 

He has thought deeply about the same issue which you deal with,  and he is a religious professional.

You can download his book from Amazon in "kindle" format and read it right away.

 

Should reason illuminate your search, and good luck with it!  :thumb:

 

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Guest Homosexual Christian
3 hours ago, Guest Confused said:

 

Hi Guest Homosexual Christian, I do have some basic understanding of how Bible portray Homosexuality. From what I have read, you agree that homosexuality is a sin according to the bible.  You feel that the homosexual acts you have committed (such as hookups) and being in a homosexual relationship(BF) are sinful and you are feeling guilty about it? Although you have a boyfriend now, won't your religion eventually get in the way of your relationship? 

 

There is one thing I am very clear about, I will definitely not give up my homosexual relationship for religion. 

 

Thanks for the prayer :)

 

Just curious, are you from a traditional church instead of Free Community Church?

 

I'm from a traditional church. Thanks all for trying to explain. I have heard a lot of the argument. But am convinced rationally that the Bible is true. 

 

If it's feeling, I would have hoped for other outcomes. 

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9 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

I'm from a traditional church. Thanks all for trying to explain. I have heard a lot of the argument. But am convinced rationally that the Bible is true. 

 

If it's feeling, I would have hoped for other outcomes. 

 

What is your rationale?  It's amazing that you don't need faith.  You should write a thesis about your findings!

.

Edited by Steve5380
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Guest Homosexual Christian

Certainly they won't avoid and ban. In fact, its the complete opposite. they will want to reach out to you more. And If we don't want to give up the homosexual lifestyle, we will naturally want to avoid them and ban them instead. LOL

 

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

What is your rationale?  It's amazing that you don't need faith.  You should write a thesis about your findings!

.

 

Of cos I need faith in this. But faith does not come from feeling. It comes from hearing, disgesting the info, research on evidences for and against. To me, it takes more faith for me not to believe in the biblical God. 

 

16 hours ago, Guest Confused said:

 

Hi Guest Homosexual Christian, I do have some basic understanding of how Bible portray Homosexuality. From what I have read, you agree that homosexuality is a sin according to the bible.  You feel that the homosexual acts you have committed (such as hookups) and being in a homosexual relationship(BF) are sinful and you are feeling guilty about it? Although you have a boyfriend now, won't your religion eventually get in the way of your relationship? 

 

There is one thing I am very clear about, I will definitely not give up my homosexual relationship for religion. 

 

Thanks for the prayer :)

 

Just curious, are you from a traditional church instead of Free Community Church?

 

I'm from a traditional church. 

Yes, that's where I struggle to be honest. If I truly believe, I would wish for my BF to be saved too. I would wish for him to give up on me. Sometimes I really think that.

 

That's why it's more convenient for many to decide the biblical God doesn't exist. 

But convenience isn't necessarily the truth.

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13 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Even if you don't have qualms dealing with them,  they may have qualms dealing with you if you come out!

 

A religion promotes love. If the followers hate u just cos u love the same gender, do u really wanna befriend them?

 

They r the ones who should deal with their qualms, not TS. 

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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On 4/20/2019 at 10:53 PM, Guest Confused said:

I am thinking of just coming out to them- let them know that I am not interested in too many religious activities, but im afriad that the friendship will be destroyed. Their Church stance on homosexuality is clear- it is incompatible with Christianity.

 

What should i do...? Do you all have many christian friends? And how did they react when you came out to them.

4

 

Recently, I felt sad for a friend after I found out that he supports his church cause regarding 377A because he just didn't want to risk his relationship with his church. I would never betray myself to just to be a flock of sheep. If I can't be myself then they are not my true friends that's the bottom line of my principles as a person.

 

So what's your bottom line? To pretend, so that you can stay close and have a fake sense of "belong"?

 

If friends cannot disagree with each other then it's not called friendship. It's a clique, a cult, an interest group.

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20 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Even if you don't have qualms dealing with them,  they may have qualms dealing with you if you come out!

 

7 hours ago, fab said:

 

A religion promotes love. If the followers hate u just cos u love the same gender, do u really wanna befriend them?

 

They r the ones who should deal with their qualms, not TS. 

 

You describe a nice ideal, which we all wish it were true.  But not all love is the same.

 

Take the case of "my" vice president, Mike Pence, who many consider to be a "man of God". who sends his children and is active in "Immanuel Christian School", which does not accept LGBT employees, children, or children of LGBT parents. Surely they are good people at this school who have no problems with that policy. Why don't they go all out to welcome LGBT people, to lovely guide them away from sin and teach them their morality?  Instead, they REJECT them :angry:

 

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7 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

Certainly they won't avoid and ban. In fact, its the complete opposite. they will want to reach out to you more. And If we don't want to give up the homosexual lifestyle, we will naturally want to avoid them and ban them instead. LOL

 

Of cos I need faith in this. But faith does not come from feeling. It comes from hearing, disgesting the info, research on evidences for and against. To me, it takes more faith for me not to believe in the biblical God. 

 

 

No matter how much you research, you have to come back to the one original source of Christianity that is the Bible.  One book.  All the other sources are derived from it or from less formal writings from the same era.

 

The only books we can rationally find truthful are the texts of exact sciences. A book on math that starts with the basic principles can be little by little worked through and be found to be true.  There is absolutely no need for faith.

A book on on science requires some rational faith.  Rational because we can always step outside of the book and prove to ourselves the truth of its premises, either by looking at the stars through telescopes, by making experiments in a lab, or by going to nature and see the animals, plants.

A religious book like the Bible requires irrational faith,  because we cannot find outside of it proof of its truths.  No matter how much we squeeze our brains,  we don't find anywhere conclusive evidence that Jesus is the Son of God.  This comes only from the writers of the Gospels and a few other writers from those days.

 

The millions of Buddhists are surely as intelligent as the millions of Christians. Today they can get all the information about Christianity we have.  IF they could rationally digest any evidence that Jesus is the Son of God,  these millions would become Christians.  This is not happening !!! 

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8 hours ago, Guest Homosexual Christian said:

 

I'm from a traditional church. 

Yes, that's where I struggle to be honest. If I truly believe, I would wish for my BF to be saved too. I would wish for him to give up on me. Sometimes I really think that.

 

That's why it's more convenient for many to decide the biblical God doesn't exist. 

But convenience isn't necessarily the truth.

 

You are from a traditional church, so it makes sense that you propagate one of their most slick falsities.

 

Organized religion tells us that we don't believe for CONVENIENCE.  This is a shameless lie. 

The truth of Catholicism, for example,  would be the most CONVENIENT for most of us.  We don't go around enjoying evil and sin.  We try to be decent people.  IF this would earn us an eternity of joy in a paradise,  just by giving up some minor sex and the entertainment of porn,  there would be no better deal on earth.  So it would seem that CONVENIENCE is what the believers are after,  not only for the happy afterlife but also the consolation to be reunited with their deceased loved ones.

 

Basic faith is not voluntary,  but we can voluntarily agree to be brain-washed.   This is why we should be alert and trust our inborn reason.

.

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4 hours ago, Ironrod said:

 

Recently, I felt sad for a friend after I found out that he supports his church cause regarding 377A because he just didn't want to risk his relationship with his church. I would never betray myself to just to be a flock of sheep. If I can't be myself then they are not my true friends that's the bottom line of my principles as a person.

 

So what's your bottom line? To pretend, so that you can stay close and have a fake sense of "belong"?

 

If friends cannot disagree with each other then it's not called friendship. It's a clique, a cult, an interest group.

 

That is called Integrity on your part :thumb:

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On 4/21/2019 at 4:06 AM, Dart said:

Assuming you are in Singapore, most churches here do not approve of homosexuality. Some have outrightly condemned people like us. 

If ever you feel convicted you have found God in Christianity ( through the sharing from your friends ) but find it impossible to reconcile with your sexual orientation,

you may want to look up for Free Community Church, here is their website https://www.freecomchurch.org 

indeed its a tough journey but doable...at least thru the process, we find out who are real frens regardless of our sexual orientations

 

take care

 

E

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Y do u stick to a community who will judge u based on your orientation? I hope u realise U do have a choice.

 

Not to mention, true friends won't judge, at least not for something beyond your control.

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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Guest InBangkok
On 4/21/2019 at 10:09 PM, Steve5380 said:

I suggest that you read the book "God Believes in Love" by Gene Robinson.

 

To confirm what you believe is your faith, it is important that you consider all sides of a discussion on faith. So one book you definitely should read is "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. In fact you don't even need to read it. If you have 90 minutes to spare some time, watch this documentary about it.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Guest InBangkok said:

 

To confirm what you believe is your faith, it is important that you consider all sides of a discussion on faith. So one book you definitely should read is "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. In fact you don't even need to read it. If you have 90 minutes to spare some time, watch this documentary about it.

 

 

I have read Dawkins' book and I think that it makes a good case for atheism.  But I just don't find irrefutable evidence of his postulate that we are what we are thanks to pure circumstantial combination of inorganic matter and evolution thereafter.  So I am not an atheist but I prefer to stay in the comfortable and happy state of mind of an agnostic.

 

The book from bishop Gene Robinson I recommended to the TS and Guest Homosexual Christian because it can help Christian believers and those who want to be it,  yet are troubled by the preaching that homosexuality is sinful.   It gives arguments for a Christianity free of this condemnation, which seems to be gaining popularity.  We should hope that this gay-friendly Christianity will prevail one day,  and that this change will be easier than Islam getting rid of shariah law.

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23 hours ago, ProMouth said:

indeed its a tough journey but doable...at least thru the process, we find out who are real frens regardless of our sexual orientations

 

take care

 

E

 

The price for desiring and acquiring the most splendid of creations ~ the human male species is humongous ... haha ... more so among gay christians who have to contend with misquoted scriptures and fellow ignorant and hateful "christians". :)

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Guest Talk Cock Sing Song Time
On 4/20/2019 at 10:53 PM, Guest Confused said:

I am in my mid-twenties, and two of my closest university friends are Christians. We have been friends for 3-4 years and even went multiple trips overseas together.

Knowing them for so many years and you are NOT SO STREET SMART still.    Was it so difficult to test your christians friends on their view about HOMOSEXUALITY even if you are a straight dude?  Their reply will determine and influence your decision whether you should OR should not cum out or continue to mingle around with them, even though cumming out is not necessary unless you felt compel to seek acceptance or approval.  

 

There is a Chinese proverb that say:  知己知彼,,百战百胜 (know your enemy, know yourself) and you will be put in a victorious position.   Now you still want your friend to know you better without you first knowing them?

 

I have a best friend who once accepted me as his gay friend, but eventually he used my gay identity as a weapon against me over trivial matter that broke a long time relationship and that is another story for another time.

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2 hours ago, Guest Talk Cock Sing Song Time said:

Knowing them for so many years and you are NOT SO STREET SMART still.    Was it so difficult to test your christians friends on their view about HOMOSEXUALITY even if you are a straight dude?  Their reply will determine and influence your decision whether you should OR should not cum out or continue to mingle around with them, even though cumming out is not necessary unless you felt compel to seek acceptance or approval.  

 

There is a Chinese proverb that say:  知己知彼,,百战百胜 (know your enemy, know yourself) and you will be put in a victorious position.   Now you still want your friend to know you better without you first knowing them?

 

I have a best friend who once accepted me as his gay friend, but eventually he used my gay identity as a weapon against me over trivial matter that broke a long time relationship and that is another story for another time.

 

He blackmailed u threatening to expose your gay identity to your boss in exchange he gets u bj him for free and used your arse like a substitute gf or wife when he is horny and his gf or wife is not available for him to release his sexual fever??

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4 hours ago, Guest Talk Cock Sing Song Time said:

 

 

I have a best friend who once accepted me as his gay friend, but eventually he used my gay identity as a weapon against me over trivial matter that broke a long time relationship and that is another story for another time.

 

My spinster colleague always claims she's a fag hag. 

 

When her gay friend did do a favour she requested, she called him a bloody cock sucker.

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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  • 6 months later...

For me I didn't bother to come out to anyone from Church. I am a roman catholic. I was baptized at 6. then at 7, I attended religious classes all the way until I was 16. I was also serving on the altar after I was 10, a choice I made (google, altar servers). At 16 there's a huge retreat to prepare you for the rite of confirmation (also can google)

 

After the rite of confirmation, 2 years later when I was about 18, I felt that I wanted to stop going to the church as I did not agree with it's teachings. The fundamentals were okay with me but everything else, I was not okay with. By this time I already accepted I was gay, I was a little bit in denial when I was ~16...

 

If you say that they are already trying to evangelize you, then you know you need to make new friends, considering they even asked you to go on retreats and then you even have to find excuses not to go. It means they don't let you decide on your own of your free will. So you also know that this is not what you want. 

 

Good luck, and friends can always be made again. You can message me personally if you feel you need some direction in your life now. ^_^

Speaking loudly, suffers softly. Smiles so wide, cuts unseen inside.

Bitin' the bullet, but never kick the bucket.

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Hmmm...i tested water with close, religious frens before disclosure on how they react to differ lifestyles/social groups. Also see how they are with agenda of spreading beliefs. 

 

Over time, they seem to fall into either accepting or less accepting group. Then Ill share my identity. True enough - the first group never said its an issue nor preach conversion. The second group - i cant be bothered to hang ard with.

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On 4/20/2019 at 10:53 PM, Guest Confused said:

I am in my mid-twenties, and two of my closest university friends are Christians. We have been friends for 3-4 years and even went multiple trips overseas together. However, they are not aware that i am gay, and i have been delaying coming out to them fearing that it might ruin the friendship.

 

Actually, i have joined a few of their church activities before, and even sang in their Choir. I know many of their church friends and they know me as well. Recently, our meetings are getting more revolved around their church and i feel myself getting pulled into somewhere that i am not very comfortable with. They even invited me for their 3 days church retreat overseas, which i suspect will include a lot of religious activities. I feel like rejecting, but can;t think of a good reason to + i really want to hang out with them too, if not for the religious matters. 

 

I can feel that they are trying to evangelise me, and i am not interested at the moment. I am thinking of just coming out to them- let them know that I am not interested in too many religious activities, but im afriad that the friendship will be destroyed. Their Church stance on homosexuality is clear- it is incompatible with Christianity.

 

What should i do...? Do you all have many christian friends? And how did they react when you came out to them.

Why need to come out to them ?  Also coming out to them because they are your good friends or they are Christian ?? 

One topic is Shd I come out to my Christian friends , another one was shd I come out to my parents 

There will be many friends, family relative, religion or organizatio to come out to. 

Post on your social media like FB , Insta twitter , whatsapp tag line " I am gay , I am coming out to you".  

Save time , efforts and such not necessary posts.   This way very time and effort effectives 

 

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and that is the reason why I stopped going to church 20 years ago.

 

Regardless how open minded or spiritual they are, they will always be judgemental. At least, I have not come across someone that can prove me otherwise. 

 

My pastor told me openly he is not approving of my lifestyle when I opened up to him; thought he is a safe haven, after all he is my pastor. I was offended when he used the word "lifestyle". Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. I didn't bother to explain or to justify. They will never understand. To be fair, who can actually understand us if they are not one of us. 

 

What makes u think they didn't already know that u r gay? Most probably, they already knew it but no one talks about it. 

 

I am not against the idea of coming out. But you need to know exactly why u want to do this and the reason must be sufficiently  compelling to the point that u are filled with so much conviction to take in all judgements that are coming at you. 

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11 minutes ago, Guest M54 said:

You live in gay lifestyle, you don't have to expect people will accept your lifestyle, you don't need to tell people you are living in this lifestyle. 

Can u define what is "gay lifestyle" ?  

Is it 

1.  We go to work we fly 
2.  After work we crawl home 
3.  When we eat dinner, we do it in hand=stand 
4.  When we sleep , we squat to sleep ? 

I live this old, being gay for the past 30+ years still figuring out what is considered "gay lifestyle" 

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4 hours ago, Guest Incognito said:

Christians are one of the most deceitful people on Earth.

 

Or you can say,  they are among the deceitful people who are staunch believers in organized religions.

And the deceit is not so much of the followers, as it is by the religions themselves. 

 

 

19 hours ago, lohwpr said:

and that is the reason why I stopped going to church 20 years ago.

 

Regardless how open minded or spiritual they are, they will always be judgemental. At least, I have not come across someone that can prove me otherwise. 

 

My pastor told me openly he is not approving of my lifestyle when I opened up to him; thought he is a safe haven, after all he is my pastor. I was offended when he used the word "lifestyle". Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. I didn't bother to explain or to justify. They will never understand. To be fair, who can actually understand us if they are not one of us. 

 

 

Your pastor may be a good man, but he is bound by his idea that his religion is the only way for him to be a good person, and therefore he has to defend the totality of its dogma.

Religions are deceitful by claiming that their dogmas,  rather than BELIEFS, are TRUTHS.  This is so much more idiotic giving that no religious dogma has any proof.  But good people find in religions some elements of goodness, and this convinces them to take the whole package.  In Christianity for example,  there is no doubt that the philosophy of Christ is a superior one.  But in the written story of Christ, he never said a single word against homosexuality.

 

And the "gay lifestyle"...  how old fashioned!  Even the Pope of conservative Catholicism has recognized that homosexuality in itself is not a sin.  Only gay sex is sinful, and by the way, straight sex is also sinful unless it is done for procreation by couples married by the church.

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Guest Guest Confused

Surprised to see my old thread getting revived lol. Anyway I decided against coming out to them, just that i'll tell them I am not interested in going for most of the Church activities except maybe a few which I'm comfortable with. My issue with christianity or any organised religion for now isn't solely because they are against homosexuality, it's also because i'm extremely skeptical about their claims. So even if my friends belong to a gay affirming church such as FCC, I will not want to get too involved for now. 

 

Since then, I have found a community within one of the LGBT groups and their activities take up a significant portion of my time, so I do not have that much time to hang out with them anymore anyway. Still value them as some of my closest friends, but decided for now that they do not need to know. 

 

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest Confused said:

Surprised to see my old thread getting revived lol. Anyway I decided against coming out to them, just that i'll tell them I am not interested in going for most of the Church activities except maybe a few which I'm comfortable with. My issue with christianity or any organised religion for now isn't solely because they are against homosexuality, it's also because i'm extremely skeptical about their claims. So even if my friends belong to a gay affirming church such as FCC, I will not want to get too involved for now. 

 

Since then, I have found a community within one of the LGBT groups and their activities take up a significant portion of my time, so I do not have that much time to hang out with them anymore anyway. Still value them as some of my closest friends, but decided for now that they do not need to know. 

 

Cheers

 

It's really good to see that you found your own way out of your initial confusion, and it's even better that you have made new friends for yourself along the way too. And furthermore, to top it all off, you even started developing your own independent thoughts and started becoming skeptical of other people's claims. It seems that you have grown up quite a bit in the past few months. ...

 

dragons' den GIF by CBC

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