A New Kind of Buddhism

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, Guest Ergo said:

Oh, all the hairsplitting, the terminology, the sermons, the volumes of scriptures! Try instead to get out of yourself and feel the moment of what is real.

 

LOL!  It's amazing, isn't it?  Seems that theology is the art of making something out of nothing  

 

I have this feeling when I hear about theologian John Hick,  mentioned earlier in this thread.  He dedicated his whole life splitting hairs over religious dogmas.  Isn't there something wrong with him in the first place if he doesn't brush religion aside after some little research?  But it can be understood that he was out there in search of the truth!  But in religion if one hopes that "the truth will set you free" one will never be free.   It is easier for Eckhart Tolle to preach about how to handle the present moment

[LeanMature]

10 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It may not need much arguing to recognize here the superiority of Buddhism over Abrahamic religions like Christianity.  With rebirth, we get a second chance,  a third chance... as many as we need to attain nirvana. It just takes a little more suffering in "remedial" lives if we are slow learners.

 

My native Catholicism taught me that our soul lives forever,  either enjoying eternal heaven or suffering eternal hell. The difference?  A "mortal" sin.  The definition of sins keeps changing, but in my days if I would refuse to attend Mass every Sunday,  this would be a mortal sin, and I would burn in hell for all eternity.  Imagine!  What a nice teaching to give young children!  Of course I never believed that.  It is not difficult to find that this Catholic doctrine is immoral,  completely time-incongruent.  An infinite praise or punishment decided on a conduct that only lasts a short instant in time.  And of course no second chance!

 

The Buddhist doctrine gives us the possibility of multiple chances to make up for any deficiencies we have the first time around.  But here is my big question:  why the deficiencies in our short life have to be "made up"?   A need for justice?  How can a superior force of nature demand "justice" in such imperfect creatures as we are?  That force of nature should be the culpable for making us so imperfect.  I see much more sense in us being allowed to die in peace with our balance of good and bad cancelled together with the physical body,  since it does not have any transcendental importance.

.

 

Out of respect to the billion strong Catholics, better not to compare.  As long as you know the path leading to the cessation of suffering, that is good enough.  You will notice that although Buddhism doesn't go around the world converting people, many westerners are seeking out Buddhism and becoming Buddhists. 

[Steve5380]

17 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

Out of respect to the billion strong Catholics, better not to compare.  As long as you know the path leading to the cessation of suffering, that is good enough.  You will notice that although Buddhism doesn't go around the world converting people, many westerners are seeking out Buddhism and becoming Buddhists. 

 

It is easy to understand why people raised in Western religions would seek Eastern religions.  I would do this too if I would seek a religion to believe in. 

BTW,  the billion Catholics are not all believers.  After all, you are having a conversation with a Catholic,  and I don't demand your respect towards my religion 

In today's world the expectation of respect towards religions has dramatically declined.   What is the respect of religious people for the billions of agnostics and atheists?

And the respect of religious people toward... LGBTQs?

[LeanMature]

24 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It is easy to understand why people raised in Western religions would seek Eastern religions.  I would do this too if I would seek a religion to believe in. 

BTW,  the billion Catholics are not all believers.  After all, you are having a conversation with a Catholic,  and I don't demand your respect towards my religion 

In today's world the expectation of respect towards religions has dramatically declined.   What is the respect of religious people for the billions of agnostics and atheists?

And the respect of religious people toward... LGBTQs?

 

Oh. ..so you are a Catholic but not a believer ?    

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

Oh. ..so you are a Catholic but not a believer ?    

 

That's right.  I am a Catholic agnostic.  One of the millions.

 

[fab]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

 

Was taught in bible. 

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, fab said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

 

Was taught in bible. 

 

There is no reincarnation taught in Abrahamic religions. But their holy books are so extensive that when looking for something,  someone will find it in them.

There is this saying "even the devil can cite the Bible for his purpose".

 

Thank you for the article you posted.  It describes reincarnation as something found in many religions, from the earliest we know about.  

We all want to exist forever, and reincarnation offers this.  It is a real wishful thinking!  Like the thought that we are the center of the universe!

The variety of forms of reincarnation and the abundance of its details confirm that it is a common speculation. 

.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Steve5380

[fab]

37 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

There is no reincarnation taught in Abrahamic religions. But their holy books are so extensive that when looking for something,  someone will find it in them.

There is this saying "even the devil can cite the Bible for his purpose".

 

Thank you for the article you posted.  It describes reincarnation as something found in many religions, from the earliest we know about.  

We all want to exist forever, and reincarnation offers this.  It is a real wishful thinking!  Like the thought that we are the center of the universe!

The variety of forms of reincarnation and the abundance of its details confirm that it is a common speculation. 

.

 

Enlightened beings  do not wish to live in Saha world at all.

 

Reincarnation is a negative event from the pov of enlightenment beings.

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, fab said:

 

Enlightened beings  do not wish to live in Saha world at all.

 

Reincarnation is a negative event from the pov of enlightenment beings.

 

Yes, this seems to be a fact.  And it raises questions of the nature of "enlightenment".   Detached from everything to eliminate suffering, free of a body after ending rebirth...  what is the purpose of existing  then??  To enjoy the feeling of pure bliss?   Sorry, but...  no body -> no feelings.  No attachment -> no purpose.  No purpose ->  wasteful existence. 

 

Not every life is pure suffering.  Life is also enjoying happiness.  We realize this when we age.  Thanks to science we can be more healthy when we age.  And then we have the freedom to enjoy good things in life.  I would be perfectly fine if I could relive forever the quality of life I have now.  And with a little bit of optimism,  progress in science should make life in the future even more enjoyable.  In my future lives there may be equality for gays.  The chronic illnesses may be curable.  Machines may be doing all the work and we humans will be free to have sex without fear of STDs, and nutrition, exercise may keep us all very attractive in top form.  Also,  if Buddhism and enlightenment have a future,  more and more humans will be enlightened while alive, which makes for a much better future society,  maybe able to establish "nirvana on earth"?   

 

[fab]

Life is not suffering for you this life. But once you utilize your merits, your won't know where you will head next. Buddhism is not negative but just pragmatic. 

 

We don't exactly know what happens in the other side and we don't really need to know. But more importantly, we know to realize we have to seek to cease the endless sufferings here. It's akin to graduation from university. Your don't forever wish to be stuck in a school.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by fab

[LeanMature]

9 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes, this seems to be a fact.  And it raises questions of the nature of "enlightenment".   Detached from everything to eliminate suffering, free of a body after ending rebirth...  what is the purpose of existing  then??  To enjoy the feeling of pure bliss?   Sorry, but...  no body -> no feelings.  No attachment -> no purpose.  No purpose ->  wasteful existence. 

 

Not every life is pure suffering.  Life is also enjoying happiness.  We realize this when we age.  Thanks to science we can be more healthy when we age.  And then we have the freedom to enjoy good things in life.  I would be perfectly fine if I could relive forever the quality of life I have now.  And with a little bit of optimism,  progress in science should make life in the future even more enjoyable.  In my future lives there may be equality for gays.  The chronic illnesses may be curable.  Machines may be doing all the work and we humans will be free to have sex without fear of STDs, and nutrition, exercise may keep us all very attractive in top form.  Also,  if Buddhism and enlightenment have a future,  more and more humans will be enlightened while alive, which makes for a much better future society,  maybe able to establish "nirvana on earth"?   

 

 

Whether life is suffering or enjoyment depends where were you on this earth.  Living as a human being in some countries where food, water and shelter is a constant struggle is truly pure suffering.  Not to mention natural disasters and poor sanitary conditions.  So we must have had very good karma not to be reborn in such countries. 

[Steve5380]

38 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

Whether life is suffering or enjoyment depends where were you on this earth.  Living as a human being in some countries where food, water and shelter is a constant struggle is truly pure suffering.  Not to mention natural disasters and poor sanitary conditions.  So we must have had very good karma not to be reborn in such countries. 

 

It is hard to assess our happiness according to the place on earth we live.  Here is a list of countries rated by happiness of its inhabitants:  (1: the happiest)

 

https://www.atlasandboots.com/happiest-countries-in-the-world-ranked/

 

In the list, US is no.19, Guatemala is no. 27 and Singapore...  is behind at no. 34.  Can you believe that people in troubled Guatemala are happier than people in Singapore?  But this is not all. While I am happy in Texas,  maybe 100 yards away lives the most unhappy person in the US.   Maybe you living in Singapore are as happy as a person living in Finland, the no. 1.

 

If karma is real,  and it reincarnates us according to the degree of happiness we deserve...  isn't this a very complicated mechanism so intelligent and knowledgeable that it must be DIVINE? Nothing less than DIVINE could a) know what I deserve from prior lives,  b) know exactly what my happiness will actually be in my next life and c) makes me born in circumstances (place, parents, physical attributes) that match the happiness I deserve.  Such a karma can only be MIRACULOUS!   Or how do you think it can work?

[LeanMature]

53 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It is hard to assess our happiness according to the place on earth we live.  Here is a list of countries rated by happiness of its inhabitants:  (1: the happiest)

 

https://www.atlasandboots.com/happiest-countries-in-the-world-ranked/

 

In the list, US is no.19, Guatemala is no. 27 and Singapore...  is behind at no. 34.  Can you believe that people in troubled Guatemala are happier than people in Singapore?  But this is not all. While I am happy in Texas,  maybe 100 yards away lives the most unhappy person in the US.   Maybe you living in Singapore are as happy as a person living in Finland, the no. 1.

 

If karma is real,  and it reincarnates us according to the degree of happiness we deserve...  isn't this a very complicated mechanism so intelligent and knowledgeable that it must be DIVINE? Nothing less than DIVINE could a) know what I deserve from prior lives,  b) know exactly what my happiness will actually be in my next life and c) makes me born in circumstances (place, parents, physical attributes) that match the happiness I deserve.  Such a karma can only be MIRACULOUS!   Or how do you think it can work?

 

This is where greed, desire and craving (which is so often mentioned here) that cause a person to be unhappy indefinitely,  even at deathbed.  A learned one told me that the defining moment is your state of mind at the time of your passing when your body start to shut down but your mind full of thought.  Is that simple.  

[fab]

7 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It is hard to assess our happiness according to the place on earth we live.  Here is a list of countries rated by happiness of its inhabitants:  (1: the happiest)

 

https://www.atlasandboots.com/happiest-countries-in-the-world-ranked/

 

In the list, US is no.19, Guatemala is no. 27 and Singapore...  is behind at no. 34.  Can you believe that people in troubled Guatemala are happier than people in Singapore?  But this is not all. While I am happy in Texas,  maybe 100 yards away lives the most unhappy person in the US.   Maybe you living in Singapore are as happy as a person living in Finland, the no. 1.

 

If karma is real,  and it reincarnates us according to the degree of happiness we deserve...  isn't this a very complicated mechanism so intelligent and knowledgeable that it must be DIVINE? Nothing less than DIVINE could a) know what I deserve from prior lives,  b) know exactly what my happiness will actually be in my next life and c) makes me born in circumstances (place, parents, physical attributes) that match the happiness I deserve.  Such a karma can only be MIRACULOUS!   Or how do you think it can work?

 

U have to stop thinking of unimportant issues in the path towards enlightenment.

 

 

I.e. If you are serious in the practice. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by fab

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

This is where greed, desire and craving (which is so often mentioned here) that cause a person to be unhappy indefinitely,  even at deathbed.  A learned one told me that the defining moment is your state of mind at the time of your passing when your body start to shut down but your mind full of thought.  Is that simple.  

 

I think that here the solution is to teach people to give up greed, desire and craving to find spiritual peace.  Buddhism is one way,  but surely not the only way.  I had all of these, but lost most of them by simple experience of life.  If you are lucky to live a long life,  these three attachments may disappear anyway.  No more reasons for desire, greed, craving can make old folks happy.  It is a misconception to think that old age is undesirable.

 

At the time of passing, the state of mind may not be different from the mind at the time of falling asleep.  Many people die during the sleep,  many die while being under anesthesia.  Then, they will never know that they have died!

.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

I am surprised this thread with a thread title "A New Kind of Buddhism" can go on for so many pages without anyone raising the important question: "Is this the beginning of some new cult, initiated by one insane old man, propagated by some misguided zealous few, and finally adopted by many lost souls ...just like how other cults such as City Harvest Church previously started?"  

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, fab said:

 

U have to stop thinking of unimportant issues in the path towards enlightenment.

I.e. If you are serious in the practice. 

 

 

Our life is full of unimportant issues and we should learn to recognize them.  Then,  it is fine to think of them.

 

19 hours ago, fab said:

Life is not suffering for you this life. But once you utilize your merits, your won't know where you will head next. Buddhism is not negative but just pragmatic. 

 

We don't exactly know what happens in the other side and we don't really need to know. But more importantly, we know to realize we have to seek to cease the endless sufferings here. It's akin to graduation from university. Your don't forever wish to be stuck in a school.

 

 

But I also had my share of suffering, and some of it continues.  We can learn to cope with suffering.  My "merits" at birth were those passed to me by the genes of my parents (and some of my defects too).  I accept this and I find it simpler than to believe in a past karma. 

 

I agree with you that we don't know what happens on the other side.  And it is wise to not worry about the other side but accept that all is possible there.  This is "agnosticism".   Maybe Buddhism is right,  maybe Christianity is right, maybe there is no "other side".  Meanwhile, we should seek the best for our current life.

.  

Edited August 7, 2019 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

2 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I am surprised this thread with a thread title "A New Kind of Buddhism" can go on for so many pages without anyone raising the important question: "Is this the beginning of some new cult, initiated by one insane old man, propagated by some misguided zealous few, and finally adopted by many lost souls ...just like how other cults such as City Harvest Church previously started?"  

 

From what you wrote, this is obviously not a thread for you to hang around.  

So why don't you do yourself a favor and troll in other threads that may be more of your liking?  

[LeanMature]

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I think that here the solution is to teach people to give up greed, desire and craving to find spiritual peace.  Buddhism is one way,  but surely not the only way.  I had all of these, but lost most of them by simple experience of life.  If you are lucky to live a long life,  these three attachments may disappear anyway.  No more reasons for desire, greed, craving can make old folks happy.  It is a misconception to think that old age is undesirable.

 

At the time of passing, the state of mind may not be different from the mind at the time of falling asleep.  Many people die during the sleep,  many die while being under anesthesia.  Then, they will never know that they have died!

.

 

I can't speak for other religions, neither did I know or keen to find out any other way, because I have already found the best way.  

 

Some may die during their sleep, heart attack or under anaesthesia. Their body and brain could be death but their state of consciousness (mind) is not.  A learned one told me that they can still feel the pain after their death for as long as 8 hours because the attachment of the mind to the body is so strong.  And this is just the beginning.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I am surprised this thread with a thread title "A New Kind of Buddhism" can go on for so many pages without anyone raising the important question: "Is this the beginning of some new cult, initiated by one insane old man, propagated by some misguided zealous few, and finally adopted by many lost souls ...just like how other cults such as City Harvest Church previously started?"  

 

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

From what you wrote, this is obviously not a thread for you to hang around.  

So why don't you do yourself a favor and troll in other threads that may be more of your liking?  

 

 

Nope, this is indeed not a thread for me to hang around, since I am definitely not the insane old man initiating this "New Kind of Buddhism", and neither am I any of those misguided zealous few propagating it, nor will I be any of those lost souls who might be baited into this. I'm just here to do my good deed for the day, and earn karma for myself by reminding everyone of how cults in the past got started with beginnings like this. 

[Steve5380]

24 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

I can't speak for other religions, neither did I know or keen to find out any other way, because I have already found the best way.  

 

Some may die during their sleep, heart attack or under anaesthesia. Their body and brain could be death but their state of consciousness (mind) is not.  A learned one told me that they can still feel the pain after their death for as long as 8 hours because the attachment of the mind to the body is so strong.  And this is just the beginning.

 

 

Hopefully you are curious to know where the learned one who told you that one can feel pain for up to 8 hours after death did learn that.  

The truth is that the brain ends its function shortly after the flow of oxygenated blood stops circulating through it.

Today one is dead at brain death,  which normally happens within 10 minutes after the heart stops beating.

Today with all the science we still cannot get into the mind of a dead body.  So even less could people in the past "learn" that.

[LeanMature]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Hopefully you are curious to know where the learned one who told you that one can feel pain for up to 8 hours after death did learn that.  

The truth is that the brain ends its function shortly after the flow of oxygenated blood stops circulating through it.

Today one is dead at brain death,  which normally happens within 10 minutes after the heart stops beating.

Today with all the science we still cannot get into the mind of a dead body.  So even less could people in the past "learn" that.

 

I am just a mortal being, so is the learned one.  I recognise that even if I live passed 100, many things will remain unanswered.   But i believe everyone will know, including you, when the time comes. 

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

I am just a mortal being, so is the learned one.  I recognise that even if I live passed 100, many things will remain unanswered.   But i believe everyone will know, including you, when the time comes. 

 

Yes,  many things remain unanswered.  We really don't know what happens to our mind in the moment we die.

[Steve5380]

 

Quote

 

  On 8/7/2019 at 7:27 AM, Guest Guest said:

I am surprised this thread with a thread title "A New Kind of Buddhism" can go on for so many pages without anyone raising the important question: "Is this the beginning of some new cult, initiated by one insane old man, propagated by some misguided zealous few, and finally adopted by many lost souls ...just like how other cults such as City Harvest Church previously started?"  

 

  On 8/7/2019 at 7:32 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

From what you wrote, this is obviously not a thread for you to hang around.  

So why don't you do yourself a favor and troll in other threads that may be more of your liking?  

 

Nope, this is indeed not a thread for me to hang around, since I am definitely not the insane old man initiating this "New Kind of Buddhism", and neither am I any of those misguided zealous few propagating it, nor will I be any of those lost souls who might be baited into this. I'm just here to do my good deed for the day, and earn karma for myself by reminding everyone of how cults in the past got started with beginnings like this. 

 

Hopefully the karma earned by your post here will reduce the tons of negative karma you accumulate during your trolling at BW!   

 

But I have to correct you in one thing:  this thread does not aim at starting a cult,  but at REDUCING the scope of a cult.  REDUCING the dogma of karma and rebirth by making it superfluous. If we all reach an eternal peace (a nirvana) at the end of our current life,  this will be a big savings in souls floating around.  

 

Otherwise,  imagine the BILLIONS of souls that since the creation of humanity need to reincarnate to keep trying to reach enlightenment.  Especially those who started as hominins some millions of years ago.  

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

 

Hopefully the karma earned by your post here will reduce the tons of negative karma you accumulate during your trolling at BW!   

 

But I have to correct you in one thing:  this thread does not aim at starting a cult,  but at REDUCING the scope of a cult.  REDUCING the dogma of karma and rebirth by making it superfluous. If we all reach an eternal peace (a nirvana) at the end of our current life,  this will be a big savings in souls floating around.  

 

Otherwise,  imagine the BILLIONS of souls that since the creation of humanity need to reincarnate to keep trying to reach enlightenment.  Especially those who started as hominins some millions of years ago.  

 

 

I guess all cult leaders will always have something to say against the mainstream religions, so much so that they want to march to a different drummer and try initiating their own cults. It's just like how some cults told their members that God was an alien, and just like how you try "reducing the dogma of karma and rebirth by making it superfluous", in order to "reduce the scope" of what you had blatantly termed to be a "cult", which essentially is really mainstream Buddhism and Taoism. And just as in the case with those unorthodox cults, there will actually be some misguided zealous few and lost souls who will like your beliefs.

 

No cult leaders will ever admit to their attempts in initiating any "cults" in the first place,. But yeah .. all the warning signs of some cult initiation by an insane old man are there.  And if trolling the crazy old man who is trying to initiate some cults here on BW is going to show everyone his intentions and help raise awareness of some potential cultist behavior here, I guess I have earned more karma for myself today. Thank you for the opportunity  

[Steve5380]

First, my apology to @fab, @LeanMature and other honest believers in Buddhism for having indirectly referenced it as "cult",  responding to this encroached BW troll that came up with this term.   I have much respect for the good intentions of members of mainstream religions.  Here applied are not the evil components of cults but their similar unproven doctrines.

 

Which makes me briefly diverge into the differences between cults and regular religions. Here is an article that deals with these differences, maybe in a somewhat crude way but not without reason:

https://aeon.co/essays/theres-no-sharp-distinction-between-cult-and-regular-religion

 

I don't care if my "New Kind of Buddhism" is bashed as a "cult" by trolls,  because I have no evil intentions. I don't even believe in it but hold it as a helpful speculation, of which there are millions.  I'm glad that @fab takes it with humor,  which is how all religious speculations should be taken

 

 

[fab]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

First, my apology to @fab, @LeanMature and other honest believers in Buddhism for having indirectly referenced it as "cult",  responding to this encroached BW troll that came up with this term.   I have much respect for the good intentions of members of mainstream religions.  Here applied are not the evil components of cults but their similar unproven doctrines.

 

Which makes me briefly diverge into the differences between cults and regular religions. Here is an article that deals with these differences, maybe in a somewhat crude way but not without reason:

https://aeon.co/essays/theres-no-sharp-distinction-between-cult-and-regular-religion

 

I don't care if my "New Kind of Buddhism" is bashed as a "cult" by trolls,  because I have no evil intentions. I don't even believe in it but hold it as a helpful speculation, of which there are millions.  I'm glad that @fab takes it with humor,  which is how all religious speculations should be taken

 

 

 

Much as i don't agree with you here mostly, nevertheless,  

 

[Steve5380]

6 hours ago, fab said:

 

Much as i don't agree with you here mostly, nevertheless,  

 

 

 

I also can disagree.   To ignore social misbehavior can deter its growth,  but this also depends on the offender.  Some seasoned trolls like Guest Guest are not easily discouraged by being ignored.  

 

My approach is to totally disregard poisonous offensive, insulting posts.  This is easily done by not feeling insulted by any stupid troll.  But some of a troll's posts are simply dumb and based on crass ignorance, like the stupidity of Guest Guest suggesting here that I am an insane "cult leader".... Me??... LOL!   I think these ridiculous posts can give us the opportunity  to give the stupid troll a little kick in the ass,  and feel satisfaction of not being like they are  

[Guest Guest]

 

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

First, my apology to @fab, @LeanMature and other honest believers in Buddhism for having indirectly referenced it as "cult"

 

7 hours ago, fab said:

I don't care if my "New Kind of Buddhism" is bashed as a "cult" by trolls,  because I have no evil intentions.

 

Firstly, you did not "indirectly" referenced Buddhism (and Taoism) as cults. You disrespectfully and blatantly claimed religions which believe in the dogma of karma and rebirth to be cults, and you were trying to take on some crusade to "reduce the scope" of these religions. Secondly, it's not that you have no evil intentions. It's just that you were caught and called out and all your previous posts are laid out in the open for everyone to see. But at least there is hope that some of the lost souls and misguided zealous few can see through your evil intentions now.

 

40 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

But some of a troll's posts are simply dumb and based on crass ignorance, like the stupidity of Guest Guest suggesting here that I am an insane "cult leader".... Me??... LOL!

 

And lastly, no cult leaders will ever admit to being a cult leader when they got called out. And it's also completely within expectation that they'd try to squirm away and turn the table around to accuse the accuser instead. And yes, all these previous posts contains all the ingredients of a cult initiation started out by a crazy old man driven by his loneliness in the world,  and the crazy old man even has the mindset to start a thread about a "New Form of Buddhism". 

 

So, if this "troll" here has done the world some moral good by calling out the crazy old man on that, I really ought to be thank'ed and fed. 

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

There are countless varieties of Christianity,  all related to a single religious leader Jesus Christ.

Thee are many varieties of Buddhism,  some more theistic than others,  all related to a single religious leader Gautama Buddha.

 

Shouldn't TRUTH be something UNIQUE?

.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

57 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

 

 

 

 

LOL!  This is exactly how I imagined Guest Guest to look like  

.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

19 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

There are countless varieties of Christianity,  all related to a single religious leader Jesus Christ.

Thee are many varieties of Buddhism,  some more theistic than others,  all related to a single religious leader Gautama Buddha.

 

Shouldn't TRUTH be something UNIQUE?

.

 

LOL!  This is also exactly how I imagined a cultist will think 

[LeanMature]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:51 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes,  many things remain unanswered.  We really don't know what happens to our mind in the moment we die.

 

The Teacher has taught.  Students passed or failed exams depend on themselves.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, LeanMature said:

 

The Teacher has taught.  Students passed or failed exams depend on themselves.

 

The Teacher has taught.  Students pass or fail the exam depending on how correctly they respond with the teacher's teaching.

But this does not qualify the teacher's teaching.  The material the teacher teaches may not be reality.

A thousand years ago teachers taught that the sun moves around the earth.

[LeanMature]

12 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The Teacher has taught.  Students pass or fail the exam depending on how correctly they respond with the teacher's teaching.

But this does not qualify the teacher's teaching.  The material the teacher teaches may not be reality.

A thousand years ago teachers taught that the sun moves around the earth.

 

Unless the student think that he is wiser than the Teacher. 

[Steve5380]

9 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

Unless the student think that he is wiser than the Teacher. 

 

Well... some students ARE wiser than their teachers.

Copernicus, for example,  might have thought that his model with the earth turning around the sun was wiser than the teachings of the sun turning around the earth...

[Coolbriz]

It is not surprising that students can outshine or achieve more than their Teachers. In fact, it’s the interest of a true teacher to develop, train or guide them to become one. However, it does not necessarily mean that they are wiser than their Teachers. Whichever the case, the wise ones will not compare who is wiser. Rather, they will aim to unlock the potential  of their students and their goals are met when their students reciprocate with their achievements.

[LeanMature]

44 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Well... some students ARE wiser than their teachers.

Copernicus, for example,  might have thought that his model with the earth turning around the sun was wiser than the teachings of the sun turning around the earth...

 

I m only comparing you with the Buddha.

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

I m only comparing you with the Buddha.

 

I don't know if we deserve to be compared with an extraordinary person like the Buddha.

 

But we have the advantage of being born thousands of years later, after countless people developed our science and ways of thinking that is more critical of religious speculations.

.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I don't know if we deserve to be compared with an extraordinary person like the Buddha.

 

But we have the advantage of being born thousands of years later, after countless people developed our science and ways of thinking that is more critical of religious speculations.

.

 

.... and some, after having "the advantage of being born thousands of years later, after countless people developed our science and ways of thinking that is more critical of religious speculations", were inspired enough to try initiating their own cults by starting some "New Kind of Buddhism"..

[LeanMature]

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I don't know if we deserve to be compared with an extraordinary person like the Buddha.

 

But we have the advantage of being born thousands of years later, after countless people developed our science and ways of thinking that is more critical of religious speculations.

.

 

How many more years can you afford to be critical ?  And what can you get out of being critical ?  

[Guest Guest]

21 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

How many more years can you afford to be critical ?  And what can you get out of being critical ?  

 

[Steve5380]

35 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

How many more years can you afford to be critical ?  And what can you get out of being critical ?  

 

The mainstream religions present their dogmas as the truth. And religions are the biggest critics of each other. 

If you are a Buddhist, you won't take the Christian dogmas as the truth.  And vice versa, Christians don't take the Buddhist dogmas as the truth.

Given the abundance of contradictory "truths",  we HAVE to be critical in evaluating them if we are serious about finding the real truth.

We don't need to be critical of physics, mathematics, geography, because there are no different types of each that fight each other.

 

As an agnostic I don't go as far in criticism as the religions themselves, each one holding the other ones as false.  I don't do that, because I am an agnostic.

I am merely critical of the misrepresentation of religions that push their religious speculations as "the truth".

And I will keep this criticism my whole life because religions are not going to change.

And I am in peace with my position, because people should not feel hurt if I don't believe in the speculations of their religion.

[LeanMature]

5 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The mainstream religions present their dogmas as the truth. And religions are the biggest critics of each other. 

If you are a Buddhist, you won't take the Christian dogmas as the truth.  And vice versa, Christians don't take the Buddhist dogmas as the truth.

Given the abundance of contradictory "truths",  we HAVE to be critical in evaluating them if we are serious about finding the real truth.

We don't need to be critical of physics, mathematics, geography, because there are no different types of each that fight each other.

 

As an agnostic I don't go as far in criticism as the religions themselves, each one holding the other ones as false.  I don't do that, because I am an agnostic.

I am merely critical of the misrepresentation of religions that push their religious speculations as "the truth".

And I will keep this criticism my whole life because religions are not going to change.

And I am in peace with my position, because people should not feel hurt if I don't believe in the speculations of their religion.

 

Why do you said that religions are the biggest critics of each other and not you, the agnostic ?  Of course, you are entitled to keep your speculation and criticism of other people faiths your whole life and that is your karma to keep and nobody else.  Remember, every thought, words and actions are yours to keep. 

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

Why do you said that religions are the biggest critics of each other and not you, the agnostic ?  Of course, you are entitled to keep your speculation and criticism of other people faiths your whole life and that is your karma to keep and nobody else.  Remember, every thought, words and actions are yours to keep. 

 

By necessity, religions who support their dogmas have to find the different dogmas of other religions false. 

If you are a Buddhist believer,  you have to find that Christ's resurrection and the Christian heaven and hell are false beliefs.

 

On the other hand,  I am open to any possibility, any speculation to be the true one,  since as an agnostic I seek proof, and religious dogmas cannot be proven to be false.

 

[LeanMature]

On 8/14/2019 at 7:30 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

By necessity, religions who support their dogmas have to find the different dogmas of other religions false. 

If you are a Buddhist believer,  you have to find that Christ's resurrection and the Christian heaven and hell are false beliefs.

 

On the other hand,  I am open to any possibility, any speculation to be the true one,  since as an agnostic I seek proof, and religious dogmas cannot be proven to be false.

 

 

The Buddha taught 500 years before Christ.  So there was no Sutra that mentioned Christian heaven and hell are false beliefs.  I am not sure whether the Bible and Koran did mentioned anything about the Buddha's teaching.  Whatever it is, religions taught men to be good. 

 

There are things that we hear, read and talk about, but there is NO need for us to pass judgement and make decision on it, be it true or false. You can continue to seek proof but remember, you are a moral being and has a life span. 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

The Buddha taught 500 years before Christ.  So there was no Sutra that mentioned Christian heaven and hell are false beliefs.  I am not sure whether the Bible and Koran did mentioned anything about the Buddha's teaching.  Whatever it is, religions taught men to be good. 

 

There are things that we hear, read and talk about, but there is NO need for us to pass judgement and make decision on it, be it true or false. You can continue to seek proof but remember, you are a moral being and has a life span. 

 

I don't remember how it was 500 years before Christ, and I am speaking about TODAY.  Buddhists have total access to all Christian dogmas, and Christians have access to all Buddhist beliefs. Why you don't believe that you will end up in heaven or hell for all eternity?  Why did the good priests who educated me rejected karma and reincarnation?

 

There is a reason why we were given intelligence to pass judgment and make decisions.  This is an OBLIGATION of our spirit in serving our body. This is what should guide our life and help our survival.  We survive from day to day.  

 

 

[LeanMature]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:30 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I don't remember how it was 500 years before Christ, and I am speaking about TODAY.  Buddhists have total access to all Christian dogmas, and Christians have access to all Buddhist beliefs. Why you don't believe that you will end up in heaven or hell for all eternity?  Why did the good priests who educated me rejected karma and reincarnation?

 

There is a reason why we were given intelligence to pass judgment and make decisions.  This is an OBLIGATION of our spirit in serving our body. This is what should guide our life and help our survival.  We survive from day to day.  

 

 

 

I don't go around studying other religions and passing judgement.  You can do so up till the end of your life. 

[Steve5380]

31 minutes ago, LeanMature said:

 

I don't go around studying other religions and passing judgement.  You can do so up till the end of your life. 

 

Yes,  I hope that I have plenty of time until the end of my life 

 

I see little wrong in dealing with other religions with a critical mind.  It widens our perception of humanity, of ways other people think. 

In my case I don't have a belief that I have to protect.  And besides,  I don't think that beliefs should be protected,  but our beliefs, our philosophies should be fluid.  Unless some evil invades us,  our beliefs should change with time for the better. 

 

In my Christian religion it happens that many "holy" people who later became saints had to do a lot of praying to preserve their faith and fight the "devils" that tried to make them doubt the dogmas of their religion.  I find this a very bad sign that these poor people had to auto-suggest themselves and keep washing their brains and stay obedient believing the fantastic religious speculations.  This is not how the Truth should be pursued! 

[LeanMature]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes,  I hope that I have plenty of time until the end of my life 

 

I see little wrong in dealing with other religions with a critical mind.  It widens our perception of humanity, of ways other people think. 

In my case I don't have a belief that I have to protect.  And besides,  I don't think that beliefs should be protected,  but our beliefs, our philosophies should be fluid.  Unless some evil invades us,  our beliefs should change with time for the better. 

 

In my Christian religion it happens that many "holy" people who later became saints had to do a lot of praying to preserve their faith and fight the "devils" that tried to make them doubt the dogmas of their religion.  I find this a very bad sign that these poor people had to auto-suggest themselves and keep washing their brains and stay obedient believing the fantastic religious speculations.  This is not how the Truth should be pursued! 

 

That's a false hope, Steve.  No one knows when life ends. 

 

Again, your thoughts and words are your karma. I won't said it's right or wrong.