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Why shouldn't we gays have children... of our own?


Steve5380

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Organized religions and other homophobic justify their condemnation of gays with the false idea that we cannot reproduce.

One reads about the difficulties and costs for same-sex couples trying to find surrogates and / or adopt born children.

 

But the reality is that we can procreate perfectly well.  We gays can ejaculate,  and lesbians can be fertilized and conceive.

 

I can foresee a lot of disagreement,  but I believe that every gay is able to impregnate a woman.  No, I don't like pussies, but this dislike is such a small obstacle in the magnitude of this issue. Every day more women, many very beautiful, desire and choose to become single parent mothers.  Often this is the result of failed relationships, tiredness of putting up with inconsiderate men whose only attraction is having a cock.  These women want to have children, and they want to seek this opportunity during the window of their fertility.  Why shouldn't such a woman be happy to find a handsome gay man who will give them the baby they want and then continue being a good father to the child? Why not marry a gay man who will also be a good provider to his family?  A motivated woman can become so loving that she can make even a stone ejaculate 😄.  And what is wrong with the gay man living with his wife, the mother of his child, who can be caring and a good company even if there is no sex?

 

I speak from personal experience.  I married at 35 y.o. and had my child, my son at 37. We had a normal family for 13 years until we separated for incompatibilities that were not sexual. She remarried, and I remained single until I started a relationship with my bf that lasted 21 years.  Now 40 years after I married I am happy that I did, that I started the life of a great son and by extension the life of my three grandchildren.  Hopefully I will never need a dollar from them,  I am totally pleased enjoying the family satisfaction of any fortunate straight. :)

.

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12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Organized religions and other homophobic justify their condemnation of gays with the false idea that we cannot reproduce.

One reads about the difficulties and costs for same-sex couples trying to find surrogates and / or adopt born children.

 

But the reality is that we can procreate perfectly well.  We gays can ejaculate,  and lesbians can be fertilized and conceive.

 

I can foresee a lot of disagreement,  but I believe that every gay is able to impregnate a woman.  No, I don't like pussies, but this dislike is such a small obstacle in the magnitude of this issue. Every day more women, many very beautiful, desire and choose to become single parent mothers.  Often this is the result of failed relationships, tiredness of putting up with inconsiderate men whose only attraction is having a cock.  These women want to have children, and they want to seek this opportunity during the window of their fertility.  Why shouldn't such a woman be happy to find a handsome gay man who will give them the baby they want and then continue being a good father to the child? Why not marry a gay man who will also be a good provider to his family?  A motivated woman can become so loving that she can make even a stone ejaculate 😄.  And what is wrong with the gay man living with his wife, the mother of his child, who can be caring and a good company even if there is no sex?

 

I speak from personal experience.  I married at 35 y.o. and had my child, my son at 37. We had a normal family for 13 years until we separated for incompatibilities that were not sexual. She remarried, and I remained single until I started a relationship with my bf that lasted 21 years.  Now 40 years after I married I am happy that I did, that I started the life of a great son and by extension the life of my three grandchildren.  Hopefully I will never need a dollar from them,  I am totally pleased enjoying the family satisfaction of any fortunate straight. :)

.

 

 

You have got white man privilege that we Asians have to grovel for. Some things you consider basic human rights and automatic rights are denied to us Asians .

 

You will never understand becos you dont live in this part of the world.

 

And the Chinese people have it the worse off.

 

Why talk about rights to have children when other more important basic rights are denied .

 

We do not stand on an equal footing with you and we dont start from the same starting line.

 

Besides, tackling global climate change is a more impt issue than rights to have child, the chld will not have a good climate to live in.

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Guest Michio KuKu
12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Organized religions and other homophobic justify their condemnation of gays with the false idea that we cannot reproduce.

One reads about the difficulties and costs for same-sex couples trying to find surrogates and / or adopt born children.

. :)

.

Unless you are wealthy,  otherwise don't try to put stress on children to look after you.  It is not easy to live on earth you know.  Unless, NASA has spotted a habitable gay planet not too far in the distance, you just have to put up with being a discriminated gay man on earth. 

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Is this thread open for questions? 

 

Thanks. 

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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4 hours ago, LeanMature said:

you either buy one or adopt one. 

 

your assumption is inaccurate. a gay's cock can also be fully erect in heterosex.  I'm speaking from my own experience.  there is no problem to impregnate. to those who cannot, I think it could be due to pressures from oneself after all it's unnavigated waters.  believe me it's same like rubbing against a tree trunk, a car, a doll, etc. I never think about straight, gay,bi.... conversely a straight guy can also sex a man if he so wishes and his straight status remain unchange.  so for myself I am gay always though I had sex with women and not bi as most people would say. I have witnessed many sailors going for sex with men while at sea but looked for women when ashore.  they were never branded gay in any way.

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Just now, Steve5380 said:

 

Which thread is NOT open for questions?

 

I am just being polite as usual.

 

So do I take it as a yes?

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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12 hours ago, mate69 said:

pets better.

come without all the baggage

 

This can be a good choice,  not exclusive to gays but followed by many straights also.  It is environmentally conscious (helps with overpopulation).  The only loss is the experience of having children, a loss shared by one's family,  but it's one's decision.

 

13 hours ago, LeanMature said:

you either buy one or adopt one. 

 

There can be heavy, costly difficulties with both approaches.  Why not try to make one's own first?

 

 

12 hours ago, Guest Michio KuKu said:

Unless you are wealthy,  otherwise don't try to put stress on children to look after you.  It is not easy to live on earth you know.  Unless, NASA has spotted a habitable gay planet not too far in the distance, you just have to put up with being a discriminated gay man on earth. 

 

You have a valid point.  I was blamed by my son when he was a child for having brought him to life.  He had some unhappy times.  He overcame these in adulthood, he became successful, and now he has brought three kids into life.   As for us gays,  if we work to eliminate the feeling of being discriminated,  what discrimination remains should be bearable.

.

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33 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

I was blamed by my son when he was a child for hiving brought him to life.  He had some unhappy times. 

 

Why doesn't this matter with Steve's son surprise me at all...? 

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17 hours ago, Guest gues said:

 

 

You have got white man privilege that we Asians have to grovel for. Some things you consider basic human rights and automatic rights are denied to us Asians .

 

You will never understand becos you dont live in this part of the world.

 

And the Chinese people have it the worse off.

 

Why talk about rights to have children when other more important basic rights are denied .

 

We do not stand on an equal footing with you and we dont start from the same starting line.

 

Besides, tackling global climate change is a more impt issue than rights to have child, the chld will not have a good climate to live in.

 

 

Does an issue needs to be among the most important for it to be debated?  Are there basic rights that don't deserve to be pursued because they are not the most important?

 

Hopefully you can see that the denials of rights are not justified but are the unnatural temporary action of evil regimes.  Remember the denial of rights of the German Jews under the Nazi Third Reich... which was supposed to last a thousand years!  That was much worse than any denials to the Chinese people,  because it became the denial... of life!

 

I am not boasting here of my "white man privilege" but giving some thought of how to empower us gays,  something that @BlinkOnce successfully started with his thread about becoming more visible.  The difference is that I am not proposing here more gay visibility but a more complete sharing by gays of the privileges of straights.

 

This may be debatable, but I think that the differences between straight and gay are minimal.  And the differences are purely spiritual.  There are no basic physical differences.  We have the same reproductive organs with the same capacity.  The same body with all its functionality. And no conclusive genetic difference.  It may be more common for gays to be weak and vulnerable.  I felt this way.  But this is not essential.  The parents of a weak and shy gay boy should enroll him in a mild martial art, like Yudo or Aikido,  so the kid can make up for less strength with more skills to defend himself,  and he will attain the same self-confidence.  Once older and adult he can go to a gym to lift weights and become as strong as any straight.

 

Not every gay is effeminate and "different" from the start, and sex may not be the most important thing in life.  I was conscious of my attraction to boys and indifference towards girls since puberty, but I attributed it to not having had the guidance of a father and not having had the opportunity to socialize with girls.  And I was hopeful that finding a nice girl to marry would change this.  I was seduced by the woman who became my wife,  I found her attractive and saw this as the opportunity to become "normal". And it was "normal", but with little sex. 

 

Talking about fathers,  there should be nothing wrong with gay fathers. A father should be protective, loving,  and his sexual orientation should be HIS business.  To this day I don't know if my son suspects that I am gay.  If he does,  it has never come up and he treats me with all the respect of a son.  I personally would have given anything for having had a father, straight or gay.  

 

My vision of an ultimate empowerment of LGBTQs is a full acceptance of sexual orientations PLUS a subtle difference between procreation and sex for pleasure. Full acceptance of men and women coming together to procreate and eventually share a relationship regardless of orientation, plus the acceptance that sex for pleasure should not be constrained by relationships and is independent of personal love for one another.   Of course the future should also have conquered STDs and offer protection against all of them.

 

 

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Although I'm not at the stage when I like the idea of having kids yet, let me try to imagine myself in the future.

I feel that the way you mentioned of "making" a baby puts the child in a rather complicated, or new family setting. This makes the child susceptible to bullying/discrimination. So unless we are equipped with excellent parenting to deal with that, I would not consider this option. 

Of course I understand your view is very futuristic.

 

By the way, 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:40 PM, Steve5380 said:

Organized religions and other homophobic justify their condemnation of gays with the false idea that we cannot reproduce.

this reminds me of my debate with dad when I came out.

I read somewhere a theory that when a species reaches a certain population, variations in sexuality will appear. Since it doesn't require the whole population to reproduce for survival, diversity appears to improve the quality of the population. Like for gay humans, we contribute to society in our very own ways. For example, many artists are gay. Arts is not basic survival needs, but we can't imagine living without arts.

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Guest general

the topic has nothing to do with "white people", there is this Singaporean gay couple who even went to court to have their son become Singaporean and recently the news of the 2 lesbian.

In Singapore there was real discrimination against single mothers, just recently the laws getting softer after the government realised it's a bad policy and some younger Singaporean mothers getting more vocal.

 

Even in societies open to homosexuality gays with children faced issues and the German government has just instructed for a research whether kids in gay families face troubles in life.

The LGBT seem reading it as a research against gays as government looking for reasons not or less supporting gay families.

 

The point about the one post that mentioned one particular race has it the worst I couldn't understand. But I don't want any explanation as I see it just being a post to provoke a discussion we don't intend to have in this thread.

 

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9 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Because in order to be surprised,  you need to have a working brain. :)

 

 

On the contrary, you need a working brain, otherwise you cannot be surprised. I guess that goes to show why you aren't surprised... you don't have a working brain?

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6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

On the contrary, you need a working brain, otherwise you cannot be surprised. I guess that goes to show why you aren't surprised... you don't have a working brain?

 

I don't know everything about my brain, but I guess it works sufficiently well to have made me a successful gay parent and head of a family :thumb:

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7 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

 

By the way, 

this reminds me of my debate with dad when I came out.

I read somewhere a theory that when a species reaches a certain population, variations in sexuality will appear. Since it doesn't require the whole population to reproduce for survival, diversity appears to improve the quality of the population. Like for gay humans, we contribute to society in our very own ways. For example, many artists are gay. Arts is not basic survival needs, but we can't imagine living without arts.

 

Lucky you who has a dad, a dad willing to debate this with his gay son!

 

I like your idea that diversity improves the quality of the population.  This should be more than an appearance but a fact. Artists and service providers are serious contributors.

But it seems that homosexuality does not require high population, since it has existed from the beginning of times in sparse groups.

 

I embraced for many years the theory that homosexuality is the reaction of a species to overpopulation.  But I gave it up for the same reason I mentioned above. I prefer a different approach:  Our preferences for food have nearly limitless variations,  why should it not be the same in our preference for sex?

 

It is a fact that to survive we need not only to reproduce, but also to eat and drink.  One could invent a religion where a God created us with a digestive and urinary system made exclusively for our nutrition and hydration.  This God allows us to eat and drink, but only for nutrition and hydration.  To deviate from this for pleasure is a SIN!  (such religion would be difficult since religious leaders need so much the epicurean pleasures to make up for eventual lack of sex).

 

In today's world there are millions of restaurants and bars that cater to the pleasures of eating and drinking,  and most of them are honest enterprises.  Why not have the same for sex? We need to copulate for procreation like we need to eat and drink to stay alive, but this should not preclude doing it for pleasure too, and they can serve both purposes simultaneously.

 

My vision for the future:  We have heterosexual sex to procreate,  and in addition we are are free to enjoy sex in the variety that pleases us.  We form long term relationships with the gender we like to improve our quality of life and to raise in a stable home the children we may have.   And society is neutral about any of these choices.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest johnsonklt

it will be good to let young children to have a normal family with one papa (male)  &  one mama (female).

It can be quite humiliating for a child to grow up with both papa & mama of same sex. 

If both guys  or  gals love each other & get married,  just stay that way without having children.

Plse spare a thought on the young growing up kids.   I had seen movies of such situation, 

it is very heart crunching to see that child being humiliated & laughter at by socialities.

By all means be married if both same sex love each other, just spare a thought on the growing up kids.

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:18 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

YES.  Ask your heart out  :)

 

 

Why do you want to have children? 

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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11 hours ago, fab said:

 

Why do you want to have children? 

 

This is hard to answer in a short post...

Because I love children,  the magic of having a crying baby evolve into a cute toddler, a young child, seeing how their minds evolve with so much new to them, reliving my own magic of discovery.  And as they get older, the experience to guide them to be the best they can be. Finally, the satisfaction to have contributed to the existence of a responsible adult.  In my case,  I was extremely fortunate that my effort resulted in a responsible adult :)

And now I have the satisfaction of seeing how my child raises his own children,  my grandchildren.

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On 11/12/2019 at 11:14 PM, johnsonklt said:

it will be good to let young children to have a normal family with one papa (male)  &  one mama (female).

It can be quite humiliating for a child to grow up with both papa & mama of same sex. 

If both guys  or  gals love each other & get married,  just stay that way without having children.

Plse spare a thought on the young growing up kids.   I had seen movies of such situation, 

it is very heart crunching to see that child being humiliated & laughter at by socialities.

By all means be married if both same sex love each other, just spare a thought on the growing up kids.

 

I find it a noble concern to hesitate having children out of concern for their future happiness.

 

But if Darwin was right in this natural survival of the fittest,  nature does not seem to care at all for how happy these fittest are.  From the start, children are born with birth defects and traits that can make them very unhappy. And happiness is not an ingredient supplied for free to creatures who face ultimate death.

 

So in this situation, a couple could evaluate their position in society, education, wealth and think:  "can we produce a human life that will be an asset to human society?  Can we offer good opportunities to our children?".  Compared to overpopulated and poor third world countries,  our environments offer such possibilities.  If our children face some humiliation & laughter because parents are of the same sex,  this is trivial compared to what these parents can provide the children to be ultimately successful.  And success should lead to happiness, with a little effort of self improvement.

.

Edited by Steve5380
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  • 2 years later...
Guest Try and See
On 10/3/2019 at 10:40 PM, Steve5380 said:

Organized religions and other homophobic justify their condemnation of gays with the false idea that we cannot reproduce.

One reads about the difficulties and costs for same-sex couples trying to find surrogates and / or adopt born children.

 

But the reality is that we can procreate perfectly well.  We gays can ejaculate,  and lesbians can be fertilized and conceive.

 

I can foresee a lot of disagreement,  but I believe that every gay is able to impregnate a woman.  No, I don't like pussies, but this dislike is such a small obstacle in the magnitude of this issue. Every day more women, many very beautiful, desire and choose to become single parent mothers.  Often this is the result of failed relationships, tiredness of putting up with inconsiderate men whose only attraction is having a cock.  These women want to have children, and they want to seek this opportunity during the window of their fertility.  Why shouldn't such a woman be happy to find a handsome gay man who will give them the baby they want and then continue being a good father to the child? Why not marry a gay man who will also be a good provider to his family?  A motivated woman can become so loving that she can make even a stone ejaculate 😄.  And what is wrong with the gay man living with his wife, the mother of his child, who can be caring and a good company even if there is no sex?

 

I speak from personal experience.  I married at 35 y.o. and had my child, my son at 37. We had a normal family for 13 years until we separated for incompatibilities that were not sexual. She remarried, and I remained single until I started a relationship with my bf that lasted 21 years.  Now 40 years after I married I am happy that I did, that I started the life of a great son and by extension the life of my three grandchildren.  Hopefully I will never need a dollar from them,  I am totally pleased enjoying the family satisfaction of any fortunate straight. :)

.

 

How many of your children that is really yours?

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On 1/2/2022 at 9:05 AM, Guest Try and See said:

 

How many of your children that is really yours?

 

My son is 100% mine.  I also have a stepdaughter from my ex-wife's prior marriage.

 

On 1/2/2022 at 9:11 AM, add-oil said:

Nothing wrong with adoption isn't it?

 

There should be ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with adoption.   To worship the idea of "my own blood" is pure stupidity.  We ALL carry about the same genes.  And the blood of each individual is unique. 

 

If you discard your old computer and re-install its Windows operating system into a new computer,  it should work exactly the same as a brand new copy of Windows.

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