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The Mirror Outside the Closet


GachiMuchi

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The Mirror Outside the Closet

Gay Body Image And How to Reclaim the Freedom to Love Ourselves

 

 

Like many gay men, Daniel (not his real name) never really fit when he was younger with his classmates in school because there was just something different about him. So, when he chanced upon the online world of chatrooms and dating apps for gay men in Singapore, he thought he had finally found a world to which he truly belonged.

Little did he expect to confront the harsh reality of rejection and ostracism in the gay community:

“Usually, we would trade pictures with each other after chatting for some time. After seeing my picture, people I thought I had really connected with would either tell me that I’m not their type, that I’m not good-looking enough for them or they would just block me.”

Learning to deal with rejection is perhaps an all too familiar experience for most gay, bisexual and queer (GBQ) men who have tried to socialise or date other men. Some turn to the gym for salvation: in the words of medical student and model Marcus Goh, “Having a six-pack [is] the answer to being accepted and validated by the gay community.” Others, like playwright Joel Tan, struggle to resist the pressure to be “normal”, which really just means having a gym-fit body.

This is not a new or unfamiliar problem though it can feel like an inevitable one. Largely accepted as a natural orthodoxy of gay culture, our community’s fixation with the masculine aesthetic is often attributed to our evolutionary desire for beauty and the hormonal influence of testosterone.

Yet, why do GBQ men seem disproportionately more affected by or obsessed with our body image than other groups? Therapist and clinical psychologist Alan Downs points to “velvet rage”, which he describes as a “deep and abiding anger that results from growing up in an environment when I learn that who I am as a gay person is unacceptable, perhaps even unlovable”. This leads GBQ men to search for an unachievable perfection:

“The expectation is that you have the beautiful body, that you have lots of money, that you have a beautiful boyfriend with whom you have wonderful, toe-curling sex every night… none of us have that. To try to achieve that really makes us miserable.”

Undoubtedly, a crisis of body image is brewing in the GBQ community. Many have written about the serious damage that it poses to the health and well-being of many men who wrestle with feeling ugly, inadequate and unlovable. Worse, this can sometimes lead to body dysmorphia, eating disorders, and a range of mental health issues, even those who are considered conventionally attractive or desirable.

As if the gay community does not already have enough problems with homophobia and the HIV epidemic, this “tyranny of buffness” turns us against each other and ourselves even as we campaign for love and acceptance from the rest of society. In his poem Anthem, Alfian Sa’at imagined a future where gay men would finally learn to love ourselves: “We will learn that muscles are like doorknobs/ that hint nothing about empty rooms.” How do we work towards this future? In the meantime, what are we to do with the mirror that awaits us outside the closet?

To answer these questions, I spoke to Daniel and two other friends, each of whom have found their own ways to cope with their body image concerns. While they may not be representative of the diverse experiences and bodies within the GBQ community, one thing was clear from our conversations: almost everyone struggles with their bodies, no matter how conventionally attractive others might think they are. That is the problem with the mirror: what we see inside of it is often not what any other person sees.

Our conversations highlighted that turning to the gym or going under the knife to change how we look can only go so far in alleviating our dissatisfaction with our own bodies. And doing so does little to address the wider problem within our community. Worse, we may be reinforcing the hierarchy of desirability which is tied up with racism, sexism, ageism, ableism, fatphobia and femmephobia.

Ultimately, there are no easy solutions to this crisis of body image. But if we can demand from others our freedom to love, then so we can and should strive for the freedom to love ourselves too. And we can start by having honest conversations about this problem and how it affects ourselves and each other.

It gets buffer

Though Grady was already conscious about how he looked when he was in Junior College, he quickly realised that his physical appeal was highly prized after he stepped into the gay community.

“I already had an incredibly unhealthy mindset in school that my self-worth was tied to how I looked. But the idea that my looks were my main form of social capital probably stuck with me when I was introduced to the gay scene,” he said.

“While I could give my classmates the benefit of doubt that they liked me for reasons other than my looks, I couldn’t really say the same for some of the gay people I met.”

After some time in the gay community, he became increasingly preoccupied with how he looked as he grappled with the attention that others would either lavish on or deny him.

1*1Viw_YMi2aW0R8kc3tZQDA.jpegDespite his conventionally attractive body, Grady still struggles with his body image and relies on the gym as his “emotional crutch”.

“When I fit the conventions of attractiveness, I get attention. When I don’t, I get rejected. Having that cycle repeat constantly really drove the idea that how I looked was the most important aspect of who I am into me,” he said.

“It’s one thing to be objectified by others, but when that objectification becomes internal and you see your own worth in terms of how attractive you are to others, it’s much more difficult to shake off.”

As a result, the gym became what Grady described as his “emotional crutch”: “I get very stressed out when my weight dips below 72 kilos or when my abs don’t show up in photos.”

While the validation he receives from others helps to keep his self-esteem from plummeting at times, he does not think that it is healthy or desirable. “I still see a skinny boy when I look in the mirror, even if I can rationally understand that I have a body that people find attractive.”

Though Grady’s struggle with his body image is perhaps more acute than most other GBQ men, his experience speaks to the danger of locating one’s self-worth in how handsome or buff you are. Going to the gym — as many GBQ men currently do — to improve one’s physique may only go so far to alleviate our body image concerns if we do not address its psychological source.

As Grady acknowledged, “I think that at some point I have to change the way I perceive myself and my self-worth to truly address my body image concerns.”

“Changing the way our community thinks and what they value is another way to fix these problems, but it’s an arduous task so I guess I’m relying on changing my own views and perceptions to make my life easier.”

Facing the facts

Like Grady, Daniel is also sceptical about the possibility of changing the gay community’s cultural fixation with physical appearances.

“I am a practical person and I want to be accepted so changing how I look is something that I can do to achieve that,” he said.

While he was in National Service, Daniel shared with his close friends that he felt like he was having trouble making friends with other gay people online. One of them suggested that it was probably because he was not good-looking. At about the same time, Daniel also realised that a friend, whom he thought was more physically attractive than himself, was having a much easier time making new friends or meeting dates.

Partly because of the popularity of TV shows that featured plastic surgery at that time, he decided to go under the knife to change how he looked. Since the surgery, Daniel feels more confident about himself and has found it easier to make friends.

“While some people might think that going for plastic surgery means that I am cheating or inauthentic, it has helped me with my self-esteem and I feel more validated as a person,” he said.

At the same time, he sometimes toy with the idea of going under the knife again: “I feel the urge to go for further surgery, usually after experiencing rejection for some time.”

When I asked him when he would feel like he no longer have to alter his physical appearance anymore, Daniel said that it is when he is able to “step into a social gathering and have people try to get to know you and wanting to be your friend instead of the other way around”. This is perhaps not surprising since his body image dissatisfaction stemmed from the struggles he had with making friends in the gay community.

Learning to love ourselves

Grady and Daniel’s experiences suggest that we can never truly overcome our body image issues as long as we are immersed in the GBQ community and regardless how buff or good-looking we become. The gym and the aesthetic clinic can only offer a temporary fix, and usually only to those who can afford them.

This does not mean that we cannot or should not work at improving our fitness or altering our appearance; they just may are unlikely to be the magic bullet some might imagine them to be. Changing how we look, no matter how drastic, will not fully overcome our own body image issues and our community’s unhealthy preoccupation with beauty and buffness.

As difficult it may be, rather than strive to conform to the gay standard by changing how we look, it may be necessary instead to confront the underlying issues fuelling the epidemic of body image dissatisfaction among GBQ men.

I spoke to Nicholas, who shared about a transformative experience that changed his relationship to his body when he was studying in Philadelphia:

“I attended a workshop called Body Electric by the Radical Faeries, which is a counter-culture focused on building a queer community of acceptance where people can truly be themselves. One of the exercises involved us standing completely naked in a circle. There were gay men with all types of bodies, of all colours, shapes and sizes. We would move our eyes from one person to another, scanning from the head to the feet, as we take in the different types of bodies that were there.”

1*02G0sW1qt-xQRCspYZHBgQ.jpegNicholas, dressed as a mermaid and feeling comfortable in his own skin at a party.

This experience shattered Nicholas’ conception of what gay bodies could look like. For too long, he had held onto the narrow notion that only one type of gay body — lean, muscled, and clean-shaven — was valid.

“The workshop awakened a sense of awareness in me about not only how I saw other gay men but also how I saw myself and my own body,” Nicholas said.

“I think the reason many of us have this narrow notion about what the gay body looks like has to do with our education as gay men. We often start to learn about ourselves through porn which leads us to objectify and sexualise other men and ourselves. This constant diet of lean, gym-fit bodies — not only from porn but also more recently social media — creates an unrealistic understanding of what it means to be gay and is also probably why gay culture is so hypersexualised.”

In Nicholas’ view, the solution to the body image issues in the gay community is to unlearn the restrictive ideas of what gay bodies look like that we have been absorbing from pornography, the media and each other.

But is this really just a cultural problem? What about the idea that GBQ men are just intrinsically more superficial and sexual because of our biological and hormonal makeup?

An addiction to beauty

In her book Beauty Sick, psychology professor Renee Engeln acknowledges that humans have evolved to be highly sensitive to beauty because it was a visual indicator of a potential mate’s health and fertility.

The problem however is that our brains may have not evolved to match up to the conditions of modern life, where beauty no longer has the same evolutionary purpose of signalling that it did a very long time ago. While a beautiful person was a rare sight in the past, they have become ubiquitous with the rise of both advertising and social media.

Drawing a comparison to the modern addiction to sugar, Engeln explains that this mismatch has resulted in our society’s addiction to beauty which she describes as “beauty sickness”:

“In the same way that abundantly available sugar can have a negative impact on our health, abundant images of highly idealised beauty can make us sick.”

This corresponds with Nicholas’ diagnosis that GBQ men have simply been overwhelmed with unrealistic images of how we think we are supposed to look.

In this TEDx talk, Dr Renee Engeln considers whether there is hope for treating the epidemic of beauty sickness.

Engeln recommends that the first step to addressing our body image concerns as a community is to “put beauty in its place”. Though we cannot completely switch off our brain’s sensitivity to beauty, she suggests that we can reduce its influence on our lives by shifting our attention to other things in our lives that matter more. This includes limiting our exposure to beauty-focused images and topics and prioritising other aspects of ourselves that we value:

“Instead of being mindlessly carried along on a wave of beauty sickness, we can practice pushing back against that current [and] imagine swimming until you find a place where beauty pressures are a background trickle instead of an oceanic roar.”

One immediate action that we can take is to unfollow social media accounts that feed our addiction to topless thirst traps. As an alternative, Nicholas suggests that we can instead follow other LGBTQ artists and activists who expand our understanding of what being queer can look like and entail.

Another is to find validation and meaning in things other than how we look in the mirror. For instance, after Grady turned to drag as a way to cope with his struggles, he noticed how he felt differently about himself when he was complimented in drag:

“It’s one of those things I don’t mind being complimented for — getting validated for how I look in drag feels a lot more different than when I’m out of it. One speaks to my artistic expression and reminds me that I have value beyond my body, and the other is sometimes just an uncomfortable confirmation that my body is still a big part of what defines me.”

1*7Wv7KAR_QiVlYaDbNYWBDQ.jpegGrady in drag, something which he recently began to dabble with.

It takes a village

While these steps can go some way in reducing our own individual tendency to objectify and sexualise ourselves and other men, it may not be enough to successfully engender a wider cultural shift. A community-wide effort is necessary to achieve that, through collective healing from our traumas of growing up gay and conformity to traditional masculine ideals.

Otherwise, some may find it easier and more beneficial to their own mental well-being to simply opt out of participating in the gay community instead. As Joel Tan puts it, “Sometimes the solution is to turn away from the joy of it all — “community” — and huddle around in this shadow. It’s a grumpy, cynical, lonely place, a bit like a closet. But at least it keeps me thinking, it helps me remain who I am.”

Yet, without a wider cultural shift, it is not only those of us today but also future generations of GBQ men who must grapple with our body dissatisfaction until we reach the point where we must choose to either conform or withdraw themselves from the community for our own sake. Clearly, this is neither ideal nor consonant with the values of equality and inclusion that underpin our movement.

Short of compelling every GBQ man to attend a Body Electric workshop or eliminating the systemic sources of our velvet rage like the repeal of S377A, several strategies were suggested in my conversations with Grady, Daniel and Nicholas by which we could gradually improve our community’s relationship to our own bodies and with each other.

The first is to create new ways for GBQ men to meet and socialise that do not perpetuate the objectification and sexualisation of gay bodies. “Currently, most ways to meet other men are through dating apps like Grindr or going to the gay bars. There has always been a lack of non-sexualised spaces for queer men to make friends and build relationships that are not based on how you look,” said Nicholas.

Fortunately, several platforms have popped up over the years like Out In SG, which aims to build community through social and fitness activities. Another example is Prout, an online platform that seeks to offer a more authentic experience than dating apps like Grindr and Tinder.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the exaltation of the romantic relationship. What this often does is cause individuals to focus excessively on their physical appeal so that they can be sufficiently attractive to potential partners. It can also restrict our notion of what happiness and fulfilment as GBQ men: being single is mistakenly viewed as some temporary phase where we await the arrival of The One to “complete” ourselves.

“We should not treat our friendships with other gay men as stopovers from the eventual goal of finding “The One”, which could lead us to build less authentic relationships with our friends. Instead, we need to be more intentional about with whom and why we are making friends and put in the effort to have meaningful relationships with each other,” Nicholas said.

Finally, just talking openly about the issue with our friends can help to take away its power and control over us. This however can be a difficult and uncomfortable conversation that people may be unwilling to have.

For instance, Daniel has noticed that when he tried to raise this topic, many of his friends would dismiss the issue because there is nothing that they can do to change how others would necessarily judge and value them based on their physical appearance.

Nonetheless, when these conversations do happen, they can be an important first step towards healing ourselves and each other. From his own experience, Grady said, “It takes an immense amount of awareness and strength to be able to recognise and deal with body image issues and having someone to share that with is always nice.”

“The issues we have are as diverse as the bodies that accompany them and empathising with someone else’s struggle helps validate their pain and bring some insight into your own as well. We could use a lot more love and honesty in our community so don’t be afraid to be the one to offer some.”

How we have conversations about our bodies is also crucial because merely talking about or complimenting each other’s bodies can worsen rather than improve our relationship with our bodies. For instance, Daniel has noticed how he would feel worse about himself whenever his friends discussed or criticised their own bodies or other men on social media.

“Even when it is not directed at me, it still hurts because you might be criticising how I look behind my back too,” he said. It also makes him feel more conscious about how he looks. Consequently, Daniel has tried to either avoid these conversations by changing the topic or tune such “body talk” out whenever they happened.

Instead, what Grady has found more useful is to acknowledge the issue and shift the focus to other traits that you value in each other.

“Sometimes people just need a reminder that they’re not just their body and letting them know that you appreciate their kindness/humour/talents takes the focus away from their appearance without depriving them of the validation they might need,” he said.

“Commenting on their body (both positively and negatively) might just reinforce their concerns and the notion that their appearance is what defines their value, and I think there’s enough of that sentiment floating around the media and community at the moment.”

Shattering the mirror outside the closet

In 1978, Harvey Milk, the first openly gay elected official in the USA, declared, “If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door.” Though we have since almost all but knocked down the closet door in the past thirty years, many GBQ men continue to be trapped in the mirror. This threatens to undo our own efforts in championing diversity, differences and the freedom to love. Notwithstanding our intrinsic sensitivity to beauty, what we consider beautiful also deserves further scrutiny as desirability is often also a function of power and oppression rooted in racism, sexism, ageism and ableism.

While there remain many external challenges that seek to diminish our existence in society, we can perhaps do better without the internal pressures that we have imposed on ourselves and each other. It is time for us to shatter that mirror outside the closet as we work towards building a community and culture underpinned by the very same values of love, acceptance and inclusion that have informed our struggle for LGBTQ rights and equality.

 

Edited by GachiMuchi
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I think the core of this article goes against nature,  and its fault finding is wrong.  It tries to demonize the appreciation of the male beauty that makes a man attractive.

 

I personally was a misfit as a child and teenager, having been born with a caved-in chest, bony, skinny and weak.  None in my family saw this as a handicap or a problem, they were not interested in physical performance but were very intellectual, I was raised by women and had no father, who in my opinion would have cared to help me get stronger and overcome my handicaps.  So I was an outcast in this respect.  Not in the gay community,  because there was no "gay community" in my life as a young man.  

 

But I never would have challenged the standards of male strength, nor did I blame these standards for making me feel an outcast like thinking that "it's their fault that they don't appreciate my weakness while they pay attention to the strong well developed boys who run around me without paying me any attention".  It was MY shortcoming,  PERIOD!

 

Once more grown up,  successful in school and more independent,  I started to investigate how I could overcome my shortcoming. And this lead me to exercising, doing the appropriate to gain weight.  Progress was slow but when I reached 30 y.o. I was nearly "normal".  Nearly because once I started seeing results the goal became open ended.  I was good looking enough for a beautiful woman to find me attractive and marry me.  With family and children, my pursuit of physical improvement slowed down but never stopped.  Even now in my 70s I keep the same pursuit, having changed from seeking more attractiveness to preserving health.  It has been many decades since I stopped having any doubt that I look decent enough.

 

So after this lengthy explanation,  I am convinced that the right goal should not be to repudiate the cult of beauty, male attraction,  but to see how  every gay  (or straight) kid finds his way to  become physically attractive.  Even nerds who hate competitive sports and love books and intellectual activities,  should find motivation to exercise, eat well, cultivate assertion, self confidence, courage, and they will seek this like they seek a degree, a profession.  All these skills CAN BE LEARNED if one is motivated to seek the opportunities to learn them.  There is a saying that "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". 

.

 

Edited by Steve5380
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This type of article will only appeal to the whiny fault-finding bunch who wants to feel special when there is nothing special about them in the first place.

 

Of course we all know that gay male bodies are diverse. The only reason why guys with hunky bodies get so much attention is because it really takes a whole lot of discipline and motivation to achieve that kind of body. That is why they receive so much admiration and not everyone can do it. 

 

If you have an average body, you are just going to receive an average amount of attention and no amount of bullshit sugar coating articles out of touch with reality will change that. 

 

Also, there are a lot of gay guys who aren't hot but who are popular as well either because they are very sociable and charismatic or they are rich or hold some influential position.

 

So just accept yourself (and your averageness) for who you are and stop complaining about why others are popular and you are not.

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The problem with society these days is they insist we treat everyone the same, as if, to quote from the economics concept, physically we are all undeferentiated in a perfectly competitive market.

 

Yet, when we find physical flaws, those who preach will say, it's what on the inside that counts.

 

Wrong!  We all have preferences physically, and no matter how much they want to shame us, it is ALRIGHT to choose who we want to be (and not to be) with.

 

If the guy you're courting thinks you have an inferior body or face, do something about it.  Stop being in denial or subscribe to this ridiculous propaganda of 'everyone is the same and should be given the same chances' 

 

Know your market.  Or else you'll get stuck at the bottom of the pyramid.

 

 

Edited by FattChoy
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17 hours ago, FattChoy said:

 

If the guy you're courting thinks you have an inferior body or face, do something about it.  Stop being in denial or subscribe to this ridiculous propaganda of 'everyone is the same and should be given the same chances' 

 

Know your market.  Or else you'll get stuck at the bottom of the pyramid.

 

 

Correct.  If one experiences persistent rejection, lack of attention, this should lead to INTROSPECTION and a plan of action,  not bitter complaints about society.

No matter how unattractive, unsociable a person is, there is always room for improvement.

And it is easier to change oneself... than the other billions of men in this world.

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On 12/13/2019 at 4:00 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Correct.  If one experiences persistent rejection, lack of attention, this should lead to INTROSPECTION and a plan of action,  not bitter complaints about society.

No matter how unattractive, unsociable a person is, there is always room for improvement.

And it is easier to change oneself... than the other billions of men in this world.

 

Totally agree!

 

The author of this article is an overweight Yale liberal who obviously has not had much luck with men. Instead of trying to improve his appearance, he writes this stupid article so other average gay bois will validate his unrealistic views. 

 

 

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Disappointed

Clearly the point of the article has flown above all your heads. Although this post is a year old, I thought it would still be necessary to provide an alternate perspective for the online lurker - that most of the commenters so far are airheads and clearly don’t deserve the focus of attention. 
 

The point of the article is this - yes it’s true that we all at some level only appreciate people superficially based on looks, appearances, and “hotness”. But why do we? And should we continue to have this way of thinking when it continues to cause our community to unnecessarily fracture and disengage from big issues such as rights and freedoms?
 

Anyone who spouts “this is how the world works” should never be taken seriously. The space for discussion and change never happens in this environment - as we continue to figure out ways to flourish, those who insist on using arguments that “all men will always be like that” or “people will always want to go after a nice face” aren’t worthy of engaging as the have artificially created dead-ends to maintain their own security. 
 

Anyone who insists others should change themselves to pursue other people’s expectations have a deeply flawed perspective of life (and perhaps of their soul). True, if you want to look good, sitting and whining doesn’t do anything. But should you do something about it with the hope of attaining someone else’s affirmation? THAT is the problem many gay men face. Not about whether looks matter or not, but about whether other people’s perspective should come into the equation.

 

Most of the above comments come about as if the author is sad that they don’t have a love life etc. That’s not the point! What we should lament about is the state of our community never endingly pursuing superficial qualities to achieve a state of happiness. What we should lament about is WHY are we like this when we can be so much more. 
 

Once again, blowingwind continues to spout old, cynical, and outdated views of how gay men should navigate themselves in an already confusing Singapore. I hypothesise that they are entrenched from self hate and the belief that you must torture yourself to be loved (something a conservative environment tends to create). I look forward to this place ending up in the dustbin of history as more activists create better, affirming spaces for people better to be themselves. 

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5 hours ago, Guest Disappointed said:

 

Once again, blowingwind continues to spout old, cynical, and outdated views of how gay men should navigate themselves in an already confusing Singapore. I hypothesise that they are entrenched from self hate and the belief that you must torture yourself to be loved (something a conservative environment tends to create). I look forward to this place ending up in the dustbin of history as more activists create better, affirming spaces for people better to be themselves. 

 

 

It seems to be clear that you are a nice idealist who believes in heaven on earth.

 

You are forgetting about a very important moral principle:  INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.

 

You cannot dictate that we should feel attraction towards a person we are not attracted to.   If we ignore this person and go with another one that turns us on,  this is NATURAL, the way all  men ( and women) will always be, 

 

I see nothing in the original article by the TS that "has flown above all our heads".  Our heads are perfectly fine.  And of course we will try to do what we can to be loved.

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If you like what you see in the mirror, good for you.

 

If you don't, like if you think you're a C-  don't mindfuck yourself into some left-wing reasoning that your own grading system has been corrupted by the community's toxic masculinity set of values, and that everyone should be an A irregardless of their waistlines.  That's a loser mentality.

 

Your reaction when you look at the mirror, shouldn't be about perception of others and the rate of rejection.  If you find your self image hard to stomach, get your ass off the couch, put away your phone, bin those bag of chips and do something to be healthier and look better. 

 

It's all about individual responsibility to your f'cking self, and that's the bottom line.

Edited by FattChoy
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On 12/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, Guest Disappointed said:

Clearly the point of the article has flown above all your heads. Although this post is a year old, I thought it would still be necessary to provide an alternate perspective for the online lurker - that most of the commenters so far are airheads and clearly don’t deserve the focus of attention. 
 

The point of the article is this - yes it’s true that we all at some level only appreciate people superficially based on looks, appearances, and “hotness”. But why do we? And should we continue to have this way of thinking when it continues to cause our community to unnecessarily fracture and disengage from big issues such as rights and freedoms?
 

Anyone who spouts “this is how the world works” should never be taken seriously. The space for discussion and change never happens in this environment - as we continue to figure out ways to flourish, those who insist on using arguments that “all men will always be like that” or “people will always want to go after a nice face” aren’t worthy of engaging as the have artificially created dead-ends to maintain their own security. 
 

Anyone who insists others should change themselves to pursue other people’s expectations have a deeply flawed perspective of life (and perhaps of their soul). True, if you want to look good, sitting and whining doesn’t do anything. But should you do something about it with the hope of attaining someone else’s affirmation? THAT is the problem many gay men face. Not about whether looks matter or not, but about whether other people’s perspective should come into the equation.

 

Most of the above comments come about as if the author is sad that they don’t have a love life etc. That’s not the point! What we should lament about is the state of our community never endingly pursuing superficial qualities to achieve a state of happiness. What we should lament about is WHY are we like this when we can be so much more. 
 

Once again, blowingwind continues to spout old, cynical, and outdated views of how gay men should navigate themselves in an already confusing Singapore. I hypothesise that they are entrenched from self hate and the belief that you must torture yourself to be loved (something a conservative environment tends to create). I look forward to this place ending up in the dustbin of history as more activists create better, affirming spaces for people better to be themselves. 

 

I did not see where BW was perpetuating any certain view on this topic.

 

I think BW set off a discussion and everyone can feel free to write his own opinion on the topic.

 

I don't think blaming BW on publishing the article is not justified.

 

At what point did BW say it supports the article?

 

Edited by singalion
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On 12/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, Guest Disappointed said:

Clearly the point of the article has flown above all your heads. Although this post is a year old, I thought it would still be necessary to provide an alternate perspective for the online lurker - that most of the commenters so far are airheads and clearly don’t deserve the focus of attention. 
 

The point of the article is this - yes it’s true that we all at some level only appreciate people superficially based on looks, appearances, and “hotness”. But why do we? And should we continue to have this way of thinking when it continues to cause our community to unnecessarily fracture and disengage from big issues such as rights and freedoms?
 

Anyone who spouts “this is how the world works” should never be taken seriously. The space for discussion and change never happens in this environment - as we continue to figure out ways to flourish, those who insist on using arguments that “all men will always be like that” or “people will always want to go after a nice face” aren’t worthy of engaging as the have artificially created dead-ends to maintain their own security. 
 

Anyone who insists others should change themselves to pursue other people’s expectations have a deeply flawed perspective of life (and perhaps of their soul). True, if you want to look good, sitting and whining doesn’t do anything. But should you do something about it with the hope of attaining someone else’s affirmation? THAT is the problem many gay men face. Not about whether looks matter or not, but about whether other people’s perspective should come into the equation.

 

Most of the above comments come about as if the author is sad that they don’t have a love life etc. That’s not the point! What we should lament about is the state of our community never endingly pursuing superficial qualities to achieve a state of happiness. What we should lament about is WHY are we like this when we can be so much more. 
 

Once again, blowingwind continues to spout old, cynical, and outdated views of how gay men should navigate themselves in an already confusing Singapore. I hypothesise that they are entrenched from self hate and the belief that you must torture yourself to be loved (something a conservative environment tends to create). I look forward to this place ending up in the dustbin of history as more activists create better, affirming spaces for people better to be themselves. 

 

If you have a differing view point then you should take up the discussion. I understand your post as a self realisation of yourself in being made aware for not conforming to certain ideals. But don't put blame on BW in opening a discussion on such a topic as this.

 

Now my points:

 

Having lived on different continents my first point of observation is actually something I was made aware of by a girl friend from Europe who asked me on a visit to Singapore: "Why do these Singaporean guys all tune up their bodies?" she was talking about guys in general (not looking at gay or straight).

 

I noted she was right. So many guys here frequent gyms ( yes I did one of the 6 month trials on receiving a new credit card, ha ha) and run around with quite tones bodies.

 

This body thing seems to me not something only "gay" in Singapore. There are plenty of straight guys who take a great deal into their physical looks, do sports and shape their bodies.

 

Maybe the background is as the "market" for finding a partner is smaller because Singapore is a small country, so you need to take extra efforts in toning up your body and look meticulous.

 

Same would go for gay guys who tend to have a smaller niche market for finding some dates and mates.

 

But I find Singaporean gays a bit too obsessed into body looks and this gym toned thing.

It doesn't seem to be in that extreme relation in some of the neighbouring countries.

 

Somehow we are a product of marketing forces and I noted for younger guys being even more into looks. It starts with the age when you look around for girl friends, boy friends or sex partners.

 

It the look thing is not just focused on body shape but hair style, clothing. There seems to be a clear peer pressure in Singapore on the look ideal.

 

 

 

 

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On 12/11/2019 at 7:52 AM, Steve5380 said:

I think the core of this article goes against nature,  and its fault finding is wrong.  It tries to demonize the appreciation of the male beauty that makes a man attractive.

 

 

Yeah man.  It's like the writer and these basketcase are waging war on other people's fit and beautiful bodies.  It got so bad that they are even proposing to get a whole community to walk on eggshells, police their thoughts and censor their words when it comes to body talk so that they don't get triggered and go into a meltdown.  

 

Tell u what guys, embracing a victimhood personality on top of your self-perceived unsatisfactory body is a double whammy.  Before you're just unaesthetic, now you're unaesthetic and mental. 

 

Like that will attract people.... Lol!!!

 

PS: I don't know about everyone else, but drags (and biological females) are not in my radar.

Edited by FattChoy
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Just another stupid FAT SHAMING SJW rant. My advice for people who watch TED TALKS. .. Stick to the original TED TALKS, they are still 'ok' 90% of the time but watch their other TED X or other versions with suspicion and fact checking. Many are crap extreme left wing social diversity crap made to sound intelligent.

The Toxic World of Tess Holliday and Fat Activism | Politics, Lies... and Health?
https://youtu.be/hlkkG6mKTCk

Edited by upshot

** Comments are my opinions, same as yours. It's not a 'Be-All-and-End-All' view. Intent's to thought-provoke, validate, reiterate and yes, even correct. Opinion to consider but agree to disagree. I don't enjoy conflicted exchanges, empty bravado or egoistical chest pounding. It's never personal, tribalistic or with malice. Frank by nature, means, I never bend the truth. Views are to broaden understanding - Updated: Nov 2021.

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https://www.vice.com/en/article/xwjj5a/when-i-came-out-i-wasnt-ready-for-the-judgment-that-came-from-within-the-community
 

When I Came Out, I Wasn’t Ready for the Judgment That Came from Within the Community

Why would a group of people who have historically experienced so much shame and stigma from society dole out that same kind of punishment to each other?
 
 

“You shouldn’t be eating that pizza. It’s Pride. You’re supposed to be on the Pride Diet: water and salad.”
 

I rolled my eyes and inhaled the rest of my slice. I had moved to Denver from a small city in Missouri a few years prior and had recently come out. I was attending my first Gay Pride Celebration with a small group of gay men I had befriended earlier that summer (my first gaggle!) and was eager to experience all that my newly embraced gayness had to offer; however, this interaction with one of my new “friends” deflated me. I wondered if the stereotypes about gay men being shallow and bitchy were true, and I worried about my future relationships within my newfound community.

 

Much of my work as a therapist revolves around LGBTQ+ individuals. As I’ve sought to learn more about our history, struggles, and victories, I've uncovered some sad realities about queer mental health—specifically, that gay and bi men are at higher risk for depression and other mental health issues. (The mental health outcomes for queer women are a bit more mixed). Research indicates that much of this disparity exists because of the stress LGBTQ+ people incur from living in a homophobic society.

Before I came out, I knew those stressors existed. No one had to tell me that there was a chance I’d be bullied, discriminated against, or rejected by friends and family for being gay. It made sense to me that factors like those would affect a gay or bi person’s mental health. However, I was not prepared for the stressors that came from within the community. And to be honest, several years after coming out, these stressors are still the most difficult for me to deal with.

I found a term for this negativity within the community: intra-minority stress is the stress that gay and bi people experience as a result of perceived judgment in their social and sexual interactions with other gay and bisexual peers. While I was living this experience, the theory was introduced to me by John Pachankis, an LGBTQ+ mental health professor and researcher at Yale.

In Pachankis’s early research, he met with gay and bi men to interview them about the stress they experienced. He hadn’t considered that stress experienced from within the gay and bi community would be significant; however, he quickly realized he had stumbled onto something complex and important. “I had gone into those interviews thinking they would confirm the stigma-related stressors that we know exist: rejection from parents, peers, bullying, rejection from church communities,” he says. “But in almost every case, they also mentioned that a primary source of stress in their lives were things related to other gay men.”

And this kind of stress seems to manifest in a variety of ways—body image, pop culture knowledge, or socioeconomic pressures, to name a few.

“A lot of money goes into keeping up with trends,” says Ben Fetzner, a research assistant at Pachankis’s lab. “There is a cost to being queer, and it is very clear if you can't afford it. When I am rejected by members of the gay community, it often feels to me like a simultaneous rejection of me as ‘not queer enough’ and also ‘not rich enough.’”

My friend Ryan Kincaid laments the “gay enough” or “cool enough” requirements placed on him by other gay men. “I might be expected to know the latest thing on Broadway, the latest slang, or who was eliminated last week on RuPaul’s Drag Race or fear being a ‘bad gay.’ Knowledge of these topics and others, such as pop music, can sometimes seem like prerequisites for inclusion in the larger gay community.”

Another friend, Mike Mangino, tells me he struggled to navigate how over-sexualized gay dating was when he first came out. When he’d meet a guy, the expectation to send nudes was quite high. “When I would deny such requests…I would get called a ‘prude’ or it would be implied that I wasn't ‘having fun’ the way I should be,” he tells me.

 

Why would a group of people who have historically experienced so much shame and stigma from society dole out that same kind of punishment onto each other?

It might be tempting to opine that gay and bi men are just bitchy, like many of the stereotypes tell us. But Pachankis has a more enlightened explanation. “We know that status-competition among men is stressful, and we know that gay and bisexual men compete with each other for social and sexual gain. This wouldn’t be blaming straight people or blaming gay people, that would be just blaming masculinity. And when you have a community made up of men, the effects of masculinity might get amplified.”

While there’s little to no research on intra-minority stress for women in the community, it clearly exists. “There is an issue with queer women, regardless of their identity, not feeling queer enough or feeling stereotyped by their gender presentation,” says Erin McConocha, a queer woman and the project coordinator for Pachankis’ research lab. “People make assumptions and reinforce the butch-femme dichotomy…people feel really pigeon-holed into certain roles.” McConocha says these themes arose from unpublished qualitative interviews she and her team conducted with several queer women.

 

After sitting down with several experts and other LGBTQ+ people to understand the stress gay and bi people experience from each other, I walked away with one final conclusion: I still think the guy who called me out for eating pizza during Pride is an asshole. But his attitude likely stems from a number of factors (on top of experiencing homophobia from non-LGBTQ people), such as poor modeling from other men and being a member of a gender that emphasizes conquest and competition.

If you’re a gay or bi person reading this and nodding your head emphatically, please know this: You do not need to fear your community. You are part of a long lineage of people who have shown great resilience in the face of adversity. They have demonstrated enormous creativity to forge relationships and families. And our queer ancestors have fought hard to fight the structural stigma that kept so many of us in the closet and shadows of society for so long.
 

But every now and then you will encounter an asshole. And when you do, know they’re likely doing their best. Recognize that they’re probably viewing you as a threat because of the toxic and homophobic bullshit we’ve all been swimming in for a long time. Then, let them know that they don’t have to go at it alone. And that eating pizza on Pride is okay too.

 

Edited by tomcat

🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, tomcat said:

https://medium.com/@darylyang/the-mirror-outside-the-closet-eb2128880370

 

ERROR
410
User deactivated or deleted their account.

 

I'm struggling to understand.  Who is the original writer and what type of body issues was he facing that pushed him to compose all these anti gym culture stories?

Edited by FattChoy
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14 hours ago, FattChoy said:

I'm struggling to understand.  Who is the original writer and what type of body issues was he facing that pushed him to compose all these anti gym culture stories?

 

He may be just a writer who is struggling to make a living.  So he takes any topic and makes a drama out of it.

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On 12/23/2020 at 8:04 PM, FattChoy said:

I'm struggling to understand.  Who is the original writer and what type of body issues was he facing that pushed him to compose all these anti gym culture stories?

 

a bit unethical to have a platform like this, where they can publish something for everyone to read, and just remove it when he feels like it, or when it has had the intended effect. usually in the world of publishing, written commentaries, articles are left up for posterity.

makes me question platforms like Medium etc

🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, tomcat said:

 

a bit unethical to have a platform like this, where they can publish something for everyone to read, and just remove it when he feels like it, or when it has had the intended effect. usually in the world of publishing, written commentaries, articles are left up for posterity.
 

 

I am glad that @GachiMuchi posted this article in a timely way so that we get to know what nonsense some people find as excuses for not improving themselves.  Before the author of the article looked in the mirror outside his closet, and committed suicide :lol:

.

Edited by Steve5380
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