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Can a gay be religious?


Guest Tang Abeng

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On 12/20/2019 at 5:13 AM, Guest Tang Abeng said:

Can? I was asked but I can't give a nice answer.

One time my female boss told me I can't cause I'm living in sin. Is there any good answer to that question?

.

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49 minutes ago, Guest pastor said said:

 

 

masturbation  is a sin , pastor said

 

I don't believe in sin and pastor.

 

Excessive Masturbation is unhealthy, in fact anything excessive is unhealthy. Lust is the greater culprit actually.

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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On 12/20/2019 at 5:13 AM, Guest Tang Abeng said:

Can? I was asked but I can't give a nice answer.

One time my female boss told me I can't cause I'm living in sin. Is there any good answer to that question?

 

ask her to keep quiet and go pantry to make a pot of tea.

 

No sugar please. 

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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Back to the basic question. Why there is a need for religion? A good religion is basically how to lead a humanity life. Of cos different religion has different way on how to lead be a good human. But eventually it is the same. 

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47 minutes ago, tyan said:

Back to the basic question. Why there is a need for religion? A good religion is basically how to lead a humanity life. Of cos different religion has different way on how to lead be a good human. But eventually it is the same. 

 

On the surface, the same.

 

In depth, totally opposite.

 

A good religion will teach how to end sufferings, how not to create more sufferings.

Edited by fab

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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On 12/29/2019 at 3:35 AM, tyan said:

Back to the basic question. Why there is a need for religion? A good religion is basically how to lead a humanity life. Of cos different religion has different way on how to lead be a good human. But eventually it is the same. 

 

All right.  Let's keep "gay" out of the question here.

 

If we were lucky to get born with a brain that works,   we cannot avoid existential questions:  where we come from, where we go after death, is there real justice,... and a hundred more. 

 

We start speculating, and we realize that religions deal with various answers to these questions.   If we were not raised into a particular religion,  we could study the most common ones and pick the one we like the best.  Most of us we were taught a religion since birth,  and we know the answers from such religion, but the more we think, the more problems we find with these answers.   Other religions may not provide better answers,  and we might realize that the existential questions don't have any answer that can be backed up by proof,  and many are not even logical.  So we may become agnostics (not believing what has no proof), but we can continue being religious by speculating with various theories, some of our own. 

 

This kind of religious speculations qualify us as being religious, even if we are not committed to any doctrine.  Religiousness can also be combined with feelings that can be positive.

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On 12/29/2019 at 4:23 AM, fab said:

 

A good religion will teach how to end sufferings, how not to create more sufferings.

 

 

You may have in mind the traditional Asian religions.

 

But this is not the case in many religions.  Abrahamic religions don't have a strong goal of avoiding suffering.  Look at Shariah law, and its rules are not deterred by suffering they may cause.  Many Christian denominations believe that suffering is essential for salvation, and so they call for sacrifices. 

 

But we, if we have the freedom,  can avoid to suffer because of religion  :)

 

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Guest InBangkok
5 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Look at Shariah law, and its rules are not deterred by suffering they may cause.  Many Christian denominations believe that suffering is essential for salvation, and so they call for sacrifices. 

 

Suffering and violence on a massive scale has been promoted in the name of both Christianity and Islam since their earliest days. Sadly, far too often the basis for such suffering has been a complete misunderstanding of their sacred religious texts.

 

I have just watched a repeat of CNN's Amanpour programme from earlier in the year. It featured an interview with Karen Armstrong who is one of the great authorities on religions and their histories (her "History of God" is one of her many books - she also wrote a history of Islam and another about the Prophet Mohammed). In her most recent book she stresses a number of key issues that many seem to forget.

 

"The Lost Art of Scripture" clarifies a lot of alleged facts about religions that have been covered by cobwebs of misunderstanding for many centuries. I quote part of just one review -

 

Quote

In our increasingly secular world, holy texts are at best seen as irrelevant, and at worst as an excuse to incite violence, hatred and division. So what value, if any, can scripture hold for us today? And if our world no longer seems compatible with scripture, is it perhaps because its original purpose has become lost?

Today we see the Quran being used by some to justify war and terrorism, the Torah to deny Palestinians the right to live in the Land of Israel, and the Bible to condemn homosexuality and contraception. The holy texts at the centre of all religious traditions are often employed selectively to underwrite arbitrary and subjective views. They are believed to be divinely ordained; they are claimed to contain eternal truths.

But as Karen Armstrong, a world authority on religious affairs, shows in this fascinating journey through millennia of history, this narrow reading of scripture is a relatively recent phenomenon. For hundreds of years these texts were instead viewed as spiritual tools: scripture was a means for the individual to connect with the divine, to transcend their physical existence, and to experience a higher level of consciousness. Holy texts were seen as fluid and adaptable, rather than a set of binding archaic rules or a 'truth' that has to be 'believed'.

 

So regarding the sacred texts as absolute truths for all time is completely wrong. Many Christians incorrectly promote certain inalienable truths just as many Muslims incorrectly select certain texts derived from various sources to justify beliefs which are false. Each of these groups therefore promotes its own ends rather than those of their religions as a whole.

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9 hours ago, Guest InBangkok said:

 

Suffering and violence on a massive scale has been promoted in the name of both Christianity and Islam since their earliest days. Sadly, far too often the basis for such suffering has been a complete misunderstanding of their sacred religious texts.

 

I have just watched a repeat of CNN's Amanpour programme from earlier in the year. It featured an interview with Karen Armstrong who is one of the great authorities on religions and their histories (her "History of God" is one of her many books - she also wrote a history of Islam and another about the Prophet Mohammed). In her most recent book she stresses a number of key issues that many seem to forget.

 

"The Lost Art of Scripture" clarifies a lot of alleged facts about religions that have been covered by cobwebs of misunderstanding for many centuries. I quote part of just one review -

 

 

So regarding the sacred texts as absolute truths for all time is completely wrong. Many Christians incorrectly promote certain inalienable truths just as many Muslims incorrectly select certain texts derived from various sources to justify beliefs which are false. Each of these groups therefore promotes its own ends rather than those of their religions as a whole.

 

I agree with you.  "Sacred Texts" have been misunderstood nearly from the beginning.  And the results of these misunderstandings were mostly negative.  Which brings us some thoughts:

how can an intelligent, powerful divinity depend on such unreliable means to communicate its "divine messages"?  Would we transfer a million dollars by putting the money in a paper bag and asking someone to take it to a distant destination?  If the "Sacred Texts" is all what a divinity can do, such "divinity" is 100% fake.

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15 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You may have in mind the traditional Asian religions.

 

But this is not the case in many religions.  Abrahamic religions don't have a strong goal of avoiding suffering.  Look at Shariah law, and its rules are not deterred by suffering they may cause.  Many Christian denominations believe that suffering is essential for salvation, and so they call for sacrifices. 

 

But we, if we have the freedom,  can avoid to suffer because of religion  :)

 

 

Isn't Abrahamic religion from Asia too?

 

Buddhism teaches cessation of suffering by avoiding samsara.

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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24 minutes ago, fab said:

 

Isn't Abrahamic religion from Asia too?

 

 

Abrahamic religions come from the MIddle East, a region partially in West Asia, Europe, North Africa. 

BY "Asian religions" I thought more on the ones from Indian and East Asian origin, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Confusianism,  Thaoism, etc.

 

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Guest InBangkok

I found Christiane Amanpour's fascinating interview with Karen Armstrong on the internet (referred to in my last post). For anyone interested and just for clarification, please listen to two very short passages.

 

On the jihad texts often quoted equally by Islamists and critics of Islam - listen from 5'02" to 6'06".

 

On the historical relevance of the scriptures - listen from 7'50 to 09'00".

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/11/01/karen-armstrong-christianity-islam.cnn

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I think, if u want to have a faith system to follow, follow something that accepts gayness and homosexuality ... its silly to want to follow a faith that preaches against homosexuality, then sit there, bitch and moan about it ...
 

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56 minutes ago, lightsmith32 said:

I think, if u want to have a faith system to follow, follow something that accepts gayness and homosexuality ... its silly to want to follow a faith that preaches against homosexuality, then sit there, bitch and moan about it ...
 

I thought so too.   I hated belieif or faith that preached hates.  However, I was saved by the same faith which I once hated.  Later, I realised you either hated a  religion or loved it dearly depending on how it was done.  Those preached by man usually kills your faith and ended up hating religion, while those felt by man save life instead.  I belongs to the later and became religious by faith.

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Just now, Guest faith said:

I thought so too.   I hated belieif or faith that preached hates.  However, I was saved by the same faith which I once hated.  Later, I realised you either hated a  religion or loved it dearly depending on how it was done.  Those preached by man usually kills your faith and ended up hating religion, while those felt by man save life instead.  I belongs to the later and became religious by faith.

I think the good thing im seeing is there are clusters and new chapters that are opening up in the US that are targeted towards the new age, should be coming to Singapore soon .. so the whole gay thingy sin thingy should be obsolete just like drinking wine and eating swine ...

Lets stay positive

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13 minutes ago, lightsmith32 said:

I think the good thing im seeing is there are clusters and new chapters that are opening up in the US that are targeted towards the new age, should be coming to Singapore soon .. so the whole gay thingy sin thingy should be obsolete just like drinking wine and eating swine ...

Lets stay positive

 

I share your same thoughts.  There are Christian groups that don't mind giving a fresh look at the original dogma, and discover that there are no condemnations of homosexuality in the Bible that can be trusted.  They make credible cases that the sinfulness of homosexuality is a mistake of interpretation,  coupled with some evil attitudes of demonizing people to be able to feel superior to them  (they diplomatically don't talk about the latter but insist on the former).  This gives hope that the morality of homosexuality,  corrupted primarily by organized religion, will become a non-issue.   Let's hope that the same will happen with Islam.

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1 minute ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I share your same thoughts.  There are Christian groups that don't mind giving a fresh look at the original dogma, and discover that there are no condemnations of homosexuality in the Bible that can be trusted.  They make credible cases that the sinfulness of homosexuality is a mistake of interpretation,  coupled with some evil attitudes of demonizing people to be able to feel superior to them  (they diplomatically don't talk about the latter but insist on the former).  This gives hope that the morality of homosexuality,  corrupted primarily by organized religion, will become a non-issue.   Let's hope that the same will happen with Islam.

 

Will not happen with Islam, the concept is very clear where it stands. My thoughts were purely from a Catholicism and Christianity perspective.

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14 minutes ago, lightsmith32 said:

 

Will not happen with Islam, the concept is very clear where it stands. My thoughts were purely from a Catholicism and Christianity perspective.

 

It will not happen so soon.  But already Islamic states have to yield slowly to the advances of society in the rest of the world.  For example, some nations could not satisfy their lust to stone or otherwise execute homosexuals.

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I have a friend who’s a religious Muslim, being human, he often struggles with being homosexual and being religious. Im religious and used to try suppress my LGBTQ, leading to a lot of feelings of guilt and worthlessness. Lately I’ve come to develop my own personal religious teachings to tolerate it. There are also Asian religions that are neutral or even pro to LGBTQ. So to you all who are LGBTQ but also religious (especially religions that are presented to be at odds with it), how are you guys dealing with it? 

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4 hours ago, Lycanwolf said:

 

 So to you all who are LGBTQ but also religious (especially religions that are presented to be at odds with it), how are you guys dealing with it? 

 

 

I am dealing perfectly well, thank you.

 

Since my youth, when I was educated in Catholic schools,  I never believed one word of the Catholic doctrine.

Now as an older adult, with more experience with the oddities of life,  I have moderated my agnosticism and I allow myself some mystical speculations.  Nothing like "heaven" and "hell", but some metaphysics and supernatural.   As for LGBTQ,  this is as natural as the different color of eyes we come with.

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On 12/31/2019 at 10:06 PM, Guest InBangkok said:

I found Christiane Amanpour's fascinating interview with Karen Armstrong on the internet (referred to in my last post). For anyone interested and just for clarification, please listen to two very short passages.

 

On the jihad texts often quoted equally by Islamists and critics of Islam - listen from 5'02" to 6'06".

 

On the historical relevance of the scriptures - listen from 7'50 to 09'00".

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/11/01/karen-armstrong-christianity-islam.cnn

 

I went back to watch the video of Amanpour interviewing Karen Armstrong. 

This motivated me enough to research who Karen Armstrong is.  And I am glad I did.

She is a British author and commentator who researches religions to get at their essence.

A good introduction to her is in the TED website:

 

https://www.ted.com/speakers/karen_armstrong

 

where some of her videos are presented, the same as they are available in youtube:

 

 

 

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Are you asking about joining organized religion as in temples and mosques, or beliefs and personal activities such as faith, prayer, ceremony or just practicing self spirituality such as meditation?   

These are all different but can come together and be very confusing.

Ask yourself or take steps from the end of the list and work back towards the front. Take your time; the answers are important!

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Guest Dancing Around A Long Pole

This guy is so confusing. He comes off as religious and straight, but he constantly wants to hang out with me, and always seems to have reasons to put his arms around me or touch me somewhere. I mentioned on 'page one' how me met when he tried to recruit me for his church, and I made excuses, but was actually attracted by him. We started to hang out after work and discuss religious and political issues. That included 377a, which led to me laying out all the reasons I oppose it, as well as all the reasons I feel that the LGBTQ Community should be treated as fellow human beings who are looking for love, even if it with the same gender, and as long as they are contributing to society, and not hurting anybody, should not be discriminated against. He was quiet for a while before conceding that I made good points, and he had never thought about life from the perspective of LGBTQ people, and then added that one of the main things he likes about me is that I try to empathize with how other people feel.

 

On Christmas Eve, he finally got me to attend church with him, and then the congregation had a party afterwards. I have to say I actually do like most of his main circle as they are all under 30, and we have a lot of interests in common, and I found it easy to talk to everybody and fit in. At one point I was sitting next to my new secret crush talking about clothes when one of the girls snuck up behind us, and held some mistletoe over our heads, and said you know what this means. I was like 'uhhhh' ... but then he gave me a quick peck on the cheek and asked her if she is happy now ... so she giggled and went off. Then another girl did the same ... so this time I gave him a quick peck on the cheek and asked if she is happy now ... and she said probably not as happy as the two of us and quickly ran away. My friend said ignore them and we continued our conversation. All in all it was a fun Christmas Eve and I was really happy that he invited me but feeling conflicted because he can't like me the way I like him.

 

For some reason, though, I am constantly getting mixed signals from him. He texts everyday to ask how I'm doing and if I need anything. We have dinner together and talk about religion and politics several times per week. And he constantly finds excuses to take 'wefies' together, and pulls me close to him while doing so, and often puts his hand on my knee or leg while we are sitting together talking. He also hugs me goodbye every time we part ways and they have been getting longer and longer as we have gotten more familiar with each other. Oh yeah, and on New Year's Eve when the clock struck 12, he gave me a really long hug, squeezed me extra tight, and said he know this will be one of his happiest years ever because we have become good friends. I know he is probably just very easygoing and this is his nature, but it's torture always being so close to a guy who is clearly a Christian, and almost certainly straight as an arrow, despite the mixed signals, especially since I love our time together.

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52 minutes ago, Guest Dancing Around A Long Pole said:

I know he is probably just very easygoing and this is his nature, but it's torture always being so close to a guy who is clearly a Christian, and almost certainly straight as an arrow, despite the mixed signals, especially since I love our time together.

 

I am also clearly a Christian, and almost certainly straight as an arrow.  I had a long Catholic education, and I was the head of a family, married and with children.

 

These attributes are in reality superficial and may not reflect the whole person.

He can be a Christian while not being a fundamentalist. He may accept some dogmas and reject others.  He may be more an agnostic than a believer.

He may be straight due to circumstances, but he could easily be bisexual and have some gay in him.  He may not give much importance to sexual orientation and be progressive by seeing all individuals basically identical.  He may not have sufficient experience to completely define his own orientation.

 

Keep having and loving your time together, reject any feelings of inadequacy and irreconcilable differences,  and enjoy his company free of guilt while it lasts.

 

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On 1/14/2020 at 12:55 PM, Guest boiboi123 said:

Why is christianity so hard to follow??

 

It depends on what you mean by "Christianity".

If it is the doctrine and practices of some of the major denominations, like the Catholic church,  the difficulty is in accepting their many rules that don't seem to have any divine basis.

If it is the philosophy of Jesus Christ,  what is hard is initially the effort of bending our natural instincts into the directives laid out in his philosophy,  like the Golden Rule. But at least here we are following sound principles instead of fabrications of questionable nature.   

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  • 2 months later...

Lusting and sucking a thick 6inch cock while praying to father at the same time? 

 

Religion is more than doing good deeds and being a nice person. That's why I don't believe in God or religion since they created gays and hated them but is almighty at the same time? Hypocrites, isn't it :(

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1 hour ago, charvo87 said:

How is the Topic of this thread from religious to christainity?

 

Salve Regina.

 

Because Christianity is a religion.

 

And "Salve Regina", the adoration of Mary, is a nice and kind practice of Christianity.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Why not?
On 1/15/2022 at 3:26 PM, Guest Trevor said:

I think the real question is, is religion a must?

No harm having one for spiritual support. In fact, gay people needed it more than straight people due to circumstances that most people will someday, be living alone.

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Guest Jeremy Tan

Gays who wants to pious in their Abrahamic religion (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) are hypocrites. On one hand they want to satisfy their homoerotic physical need, and on the other, they want to proselytize their beliefs onto others by claiming their religion is never about being "anti-gay". All the while they would usually understand that they are facing an internal struggle to fight between their homosexual tendency and this religion they believe is holy to them. Interestingly, they would also tithe their monies to the church, increasing the institution's body to even influence more of the society to fight against homosexuality (while the donor himself is a homosexual too). 

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On 12/23/2019 at 9:49 AM, Steve5380 said:

We seem to be discussing how believable religions are, and in particular, how believable should be the Bible.

 

The issue of the TS may be closer to "should we gays be accepted free of sin by the religions,  in particular by Christianity"?

 

I have faced since childhood the issue that for the Catholics, I am a sinner!  But no one knows better what "gay" is than we the gays.  And I know in my heart that homosexuality is NOT sin. This has been a big factor in my agnosticism, lack of belief,  because "ALL the dogmas of a TRUE religion must be consistently TRUE".  And here I found that Catholicism believes that homosexuality is SIN, which is totally false,  therefore the whole religion is FALSE.

 

Until two days ago I was firm in my idea that it is hard to disprove that the Bible holds homosexuality as sin,  until I watched the sermon of Pastor Danny Cortez  (which I posted in a separate thread), where I found for the first time a logical explanation of how Apostle Paul in his letter to the Romans did NOT condemn today's homosexuals but the people in the emperor's court lead by a degenerate Caligula.  This clears Paul in my mind, whom I had always held as an evil impostor.  I immediately read back Paul's letter in the Bible,  and I agree with the Pastor Cortez. I went back to my old book "God Believes in Love", by the Episcopalian gay bishop Gene Robinson, where he makes a good rational case for the Bible saying absolutely nothing about homosexuality, neither bad nor good, but this was extracted by misinterpretation (and I would add, also by bad will), and this reaffirmed to me that indeed,  the Bible is neutral about homosexuality.

 

Soon I will conclude that the Christian SIN of homosexuality was a mistake,  and hopefully all Christianity will reach the same conclusion sooner or later.  Christianity without this mistake will become more believable to me,  although I still see the whole dogma as symbolic, allegoric, full of fantasies of miracles and what not. :lol:

 

Also, if it turns out that the Christian SIN of homosexuality was a mistake,  a forgivable error...  how is it possible that a just God in heaven would have allowed his Holy Church to mistakenly condemn a group of innocent people for nearly two thousand years ???

.

 

 I am glad that this thread has resurfaced.  The topic is timeless.

 

I did not remember the post above that I wrote over two years ago, but I realize again that what I wrote at the end is an argument that proves that  Catholicism and perhaps all the Christian organized religions are a fantasy.  If there were interpretation errors in the issue of homosexuality, with many justifiable causes, and this error is corrected today,  it is INIMAGINABLE that an Almighty and Just God would have allowed this regrettable error to have persisted for thousands of years,  causing endless misery,  an error that corrupted HIS OWN rules, mandates, intentions.  Even we imperfect creatures who let pass many errors,  if one error is made on what we said or did,  we will rush to correct it.   So this God would not have let pass unchallenged for thousands of years an error in what concerns HIS message.

 

This proof of an organized religion being just a fantasy will easily overflow to the other two Abrahamic religions,  and in the end,  encompass ALL the organized religions.  They are all a fantasy.   Otherwise, they would not be allowed to be different and contradict each other. 

 

But the question of the TS is "can a gay be religious"?  And the answer should be:  OF COURSE! 

 

We all have some religiousness, we all reflect on the crucial issues of religiousness:  where do we come from,  what is our purpose, what is our end destiny? These are all questions we should accept and address intelligently, in the only way we can:  by SPECULATING.   We have the right to make our own speculations, which is to say that we all have the right to have OUR OWN RELIGIONS.

 

And the religion of us gays should by reason be one that accepts homosexuality as a natural sexual orientation, that has exactly the same moral standing as heterosexuality or any other form of harmless sexuality.  

.

Edited by Steve5380
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Guest The Answerer
On 1/16/2022 at 7:40 AM, Steve5380 said:

This proof of an organized religion being just a fantasy will easily overflow to the other two Abrahamic religions,  and in the end,  encompass ALL the organized religions.  They are all a fantasy.   Otherwise, they would not be allowed to be different and contradict each other..

You don't get it, do you?  Religion, is about God not man, not what man said nor what man wanted you to believe.  

 

Anti-homosexual is not God's words, it is man's unnecessary fear (and we know they fear many things, include solar eclipse...etc in the past) and thus decided to put them into God's mouth as "Gospel" and then borrowed God's house to spread those fear.

 

Thus, every man whether relgious or not, is as guilty as charged for the woes they've  caused to gay people  Fully answered.

 

I can have much more to say, luckily I am not "InBangkok" to bore everyone out.

 

On 1/16/2022 at 7:40 AM, Steve5380 said:

We all have some religiousness, we all reflect on the crucial issues of religiousness:  where do we come from,  what is our purpose, what is our end destiny?

Now, this part is pretty redundant. The purpose of existence and destiny of living creatures is spiritual,  rather than religion.  Religion can be as blind as a bat depending on who preaches it.   Spirituality,  is the knowing of nature and of everything that transient space and time to a common destiny.   I can share more, but I am not "Singalion: to bore everyone out.  Fully Answered again. 

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On 1/15/2022 at 11:17 PM, Guest The Answerer said:

You don't get it, do you?  Religion, is about God not man, not what man said nor what man wanted you to believe.  

 

Anti-homosexual is not God's words, it is man's unnecessary fear (and we know they fear many things, include solar eclipse...etc in the past) and thus decided to put them into God's mouth as "Gospel" and then borrowed God's house to spread those fear.

 

Thus, every man whether relgious or not, is as guilty as charged for the woes they've  caused to gay people  Fully answered.

 

I can have much more to say, luckily I am not "InBangkok" to bore everyone out.

 

Now, this part is pretty redundant. The purpose of existence and destiny of living creatures is spiritual,  rather than religion.  Religion can be as blind as a bat depending on who preaches it.   Spirituality,  is the knowing of nature and of everything that transient space and time to a common destiny.   I can share more, but I am not "Singalion: to bore everyone out.  Fully Answered again. 

 

Thank God that you are not one of those members who you say bore everyone out.  You are nicely concise and to the point.  This does not prevent some of what you wrote to be debatable. 

 

Religion is about God, the God man creates in his imagination.  Therefore it is about the imagination of man, therefore it is about man.  Isn't it?

 

If cows think, then there is a God of the cows,  a God that created the universe for COWS,  and therefore COWS should be free to hunt and eat MAN for their nourishment.

 

Homosexuality is man's fear?  Why should any man fear us gays?  we are rather pacific individuals.  You and me, we surely are.

 

Why is every man guilty as charged (charged by who?) ?  You and me we are part of "every man",  yet we surely haven't caused woes to gay people.  

 

Religion is part of our spirituality.  It is what deals with finding answers to the important existential questions, which, since we are totally ignorant, we try to answer with the creation of a religion.  Spirituality is not necessarily knowledge.  It is the dealings of our mind with the immaterial. Many speculations we make in ignorance are spiritual.

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Guest The Answerer
On 1/16/2022 at 1:37 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Religion is about God, the God man creates in his imagination.  Therefore it is about the imagination of man, therefore it is about man.  Isn't it?

 

If cows think, then there is a God of the cows,  a God that created the universe for COWS,  and therefore COWS should be free to hunt and eat MAN for their nourishment.

 

You sounds like cow dung, really.  Religion doesn't exist in the early history of mankind.  Each tribe practiced their own culture, even as simple as celebrating a rainfall or killing a cow. Very simple, very pure.  As man progresses, they became territorial and controlling.. The intelligence came up with stories, after stories, to brainwash the weaker minds and it works successfully to form army.  Wars ensued to claim dominance (not of belief but territory), non-believer persecuted. Power consolidated as a result. The winner wrote history and called their belief a "religion".   In this modern world, politicians did the same thing, right in your backyward.   Back to the topic, Should gay be religious?  Yes, why not, as long as you can find equlibrium in life, by all means do it and claims that empty inner space in you.   Exceeded 100 words already, I blame it on you.

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On 1/16/2022 at 6:26 AM, Guest The Answerer said:

You sounds like cow dung, reallyReligion doesn't exist in the early history of mankind.  Each tribe practiced their own culture, even as simple as celebrating a rainfall or killing a cow. Very simple, very pure.  As man progresses, they became territorial and controlling.. The intelligence came up with stories, after stories, to brainwash the weaker minds and it works successfully to form army.  Wars ensued to claim dominance (not of belief but territory), non-believer persecuted. Power consolidated as a result. The winner wrote history and called their belief a "religion".   In this modern world, politicians did the same thing, right in your backyward.   Back to the topic, Should gay be religious?  Yes, why not, as long as you can find equlibrium in life, by all means do it and claims that empty inner space in you.   Exceeded 100 words already, I blame it on you.

 

It never crossed my mind that cow dung could sound.  Not when fresh, but maybe when dried out it could make a low tone being hit?

 

Oh...  i think that religion has existed as long as man has lived in society.  And yes, stories to brainwash the weaker minds, and to give leaders power,  you are right. And this has persisted up to these days,  with stories from very primitive becoming ever more sophisticated.  One can also find that the story in the Torah's Genesis is rather primitive.  And this is why we have all the organized religions today. 

 

I'm sorry that I made you write more than 100 words.  Is there something wrong with your typing fingers?

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Guest Catholic in a relationship
On 12/26/2019 at 1:12 AM, Guest Sinner yet called said:

I'm 30s and together with my bf for 10 years. 5 Years ago i have converted to Catholicism. After years of study, reflection, prayer, spiritual direction from various priest. I have decided to practice chastity. My bf and I have been enjoying real affection from each other without sex. Basically anything below the belt we dont touch. He is very understanding and but i know that he loves me a lot , so do i. With long discussion with him. He agreed with me as well. We slept in separate room but same house. Go to movie. Eat. Do house chores. Hug and kissing, but not sexually arousing kind of hugging. 

 

I'm practicing Catholic, serving in the church, go to confession frequently. Yes i always struggle but things get better each day. But yes, homosexuality is not a sin according to cathecism of catholic church (ccc 2357) but the act itself is the sin. Thus, homosexual person is called to practice chastity. With support and prayer, God will help with the struggle. 

 

I'm also a Catholic in a long term relationship, and there are challenges. Hope to get know other people in a similar situation.

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Guest The Answerer
On 1/17/2022 at 2:51 AM, Steve5380 said:

What can an elder man like me remember from his days 100,000 years ago?

 

On 1/16/2022 at 9:51 PM, Steve5380 said:

Oh...  i think that religion has existed as long as man has lived in society

 

How consistence is the above two put together? Either you know or don't know.  Kept within my 20 words.

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On 1/16/2022 at 7:30 PM, Guest The Answerer said:

 

How consistence is the above two put together? Either you know or don't know.  Kept within my 20 words.

 

"Religion has existed as long as man has lived in society" is a general statement that is consistent with what historians, anthropologists, archeologists, etc. estimate from their studies of primitive cultures. 

 

"What was religion 100,000 years ago" is a very rigorous question because it defines its subject with a 0.001% precision.  Not one year more, not one less.  And frankly,  I don't remember because there were no calendars in those days. 

 

If this answer is too long for you,  I can try to write the next one in German,  where one can glue many words words together.

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Guest The Answerer
On 1/17/2022 at 10:07 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

"Religion has existed as long as man has lived in society" is a general statement that is consistent with what historians, anthropologists, archeologists, etc. estimate from their studies of primitive cultures.

 

5000 years ago, in China society, there was no religion. Count my words.

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On 1/17/2022 at 12:42 AM, Guest The Answerer said:

5000 years ago, in China society, there was no religion. Count my words.

 

You wrote exactly 13 words.  You feel attraction to prime numbers?

 

About religion in ancient China, have a look here:  ( even if Confucius, Lao-Tzu, Buddha created philosophies, religions still existed then )

 

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/891/religion-in-ancient-china/

 

Early Evidence of Religious Practice

In China, religious beliefs are evident in the Yangshao Culture of the Yellow River Valley, which prospered between 5000-3000 BCE. At the Neolithic site of Banpo Village in modern Shaanxi Province (dated to between c. 4500-3750 BCE) 250 tombs were found containing grave goods, which point to a belief in life after death. There is also a ritualistic pattern to how the dead were buried with tombs oriented west to east to symbolize death and rebirth. Grave goods provide evidence of specific people in the village who acted as priests and presided over some kind of divination and religious observance.

----

The Gods

There were over 200 gods in the Chinese pantheon whose names were recorded during and after the Shang Dynasty. The early gods, before Shangti, were spirits of a place known as Tudi Gong ("Lord of the Place" or "Earth God"). These were earth spirits who inhabited a specific place and only had power in that locale. The Tudi Gong were sometimes thought to be an important member of the community who had died but remained in spirit as a guardian but, more often, they were ancient spirits who inhabited a certain area of land. These spirits were helpful if people acknowledged and honored them, and vengeful if they were ignored or neglected. The Chinese concept of Feng Shui comes from the belief in the Tudi Gong.

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Guest The Answerer
On 1/17/2022 at 10:23 PM, Steve5380 said:

About religion in ancient China, have a look here:  ( even if Confucius, Lao-Tzu, Buddha created philosophies, religions still existed then )

 

 

Now you understand China better.  Short Answer.  Any last words?

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On 1/16/2022 at 7:40 AM, Steve5380 said:

If there were interpretation errors in the issue of homosexuality, with many justifiable causes, and this error is corrected today,  it is INIMAGINABLE that an Almighty and Just God would have allowed this regrettable error to have persisted for thousands of years,  causing endless misery,  an error that corrupted HIS OWN rules, mandates, intentions.  Even we imperfect creatures who let pass many errors,  if one error is made on what we said or did,  we will rush to correct it.   So this God would not have let pass unchallenged for thousands of years an error in what concerns HIS message.

 

This proof of an organized religion being just a fantasy will easily overflow to the other two Abrahamic religions,  and in the end,  encompass ALL the organized religions.  They are all a fantasy.   Otherwise, they would not be allowed to be different and contradict each other. 

 

Usually I would refrain from discussing religion at BW. There are too many pitfalls and easily cause irritations to certain religions or their followers.

 

I need to object your points here Steve.

Plenty of religions prior to the Jewish religion did not have any issues with homosexuality. It was a part of early civilisations.

As to what reasons earlier religions were more tolerant is unknown or still in the dark.

 

What I noted is that the Jewish religion or better to say the people following this belief started as a small group (and motives and origin of anti gay moves in these religions might be similar in Islam). Homosexuality was a hindrance to creating a bigger community. I personally think the strict rules against homosexuality was driven by the survival fight of these religions that started in small numbers. What would have prevented procreation?

There are many things in religions which are not inherent to the religion but founded in other areas.

 

What you also left out in your post was the mere fact that human mankind was always "spiritual". At early stage they started to believe something on gods etc...

Maybe it is just a result of our brain. We think. We think what comes after live... and so on.

 

 

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