An Open Letter

[Steve5380]

17 minutes ago, Guest 无中生有 said:

Obviously Larry is very intelligent, she felt entitled as a member and wanted to have all the cakes and eat it.  As much as I still beleive BW can be improved slowly,  I wouldn't want to  boss around to impose on those unpaid, under apppreciated part-timers working relentlessly behind the scenes to maintain this forum.    

 

Yes, Larry is very intelligent,  and no law of nature dictates that very intelligent people get everything they ask for.

The volunteers who direct and maintain this forum surely draw enough satisfaction from doing this to keep doing it,

and they are not going to let themselves be bossed around by neither very intelligent, normal or very dumb members. 

So I see no need to worry.   

 

[Larry]

18 hours ago, Guest Loquacious Larry Laminator said:

 Also in your proposal, Larry, you forgot to mention also needing to move current Members Lounge threads into a future Main Forum for Members.

 

Please refer to my post on Monday 0703 am.

#4. All current topics in Members’ Lounge stay put in the renamed Public Lounge,

[Guest Loquacious Larry Laminator]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

Please refer to my post on Monday 0703 am.

#4. All current topics in Members’ Lounge stay put in the renamed Public Lounge,

 

Even if they were started by members? You don't want threads started by guests in the Public Lounge and threads started by members in the Members Forum?

 

1 hour ago, Guest Get Started said:

Let's put  BW on Circuit Breaker for 2 months, to disallow all Guests/Trolls from posting and see what happen. Short & Sweet Idea.  Enough said. 

 

Such a "BW Circuit Breaker" needs to include moving the Members Lounge to the top of the list, slipping the Main/Public Forum to second, and moving threads.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Guest Loquacious Larry Laminator said:

Even if they were started by members? You don't want threads started by guests in the Public Lounge and threads started by members in the Members Forum?

 

Alright, one more exception (third one), your nick is now added onto my guest response list.

 

Your question is to be: 

Even if they were started by members? You don't want threads started by members in the Main Forum?

 

My answer:

1. There should have not posting from guests in the current Members' Lounge. I had made a proposal to rename it to Public Lounge. Therefore it will be 100% member postings for the start.

2. Stay put member postings in renamed Public Lounge or move to Main Forum is to be decided by moderators. My purpose is minimizing the works. Anyway, there is no surprise to have both guests & members in Public Lounge.

[Guest Rethink]

All these years, albeit Moderators set up Members' Lounge, why members still choose to post in Main Forum and not in the Members' Lounge? 

What could be the ultimate motives for doing so?

 

Has it to do with:

01.  Members anticipate for more readership (as Main Forum is right on top and easily accessible)?

02.  Members wish for the topic(s) to be dealt and discussed regardless of the risk for internet trolling by guests?

03.  That Members' Lounge has become a section for some hardcore shameless members to keep posting their sexual photos and

04.  That members become excessively obsessed with only sexual contents?

 

Could it be because of (03) and (04) that members choose to post their topics in Main?  While I support Mods for taking away all contents related (03) and (04), Members' Lounge should be taken seriously to minimize the ongoing troll and bickering.

 

For all those members who posted topics in the Main Forum (and not Members' Lounge), why do you do so?

 

----------------

 

Should BW want to be responsible for being a forum that assists for doing good for LGBTQ, it should do away with guests.  By getting all guests to register, it is a form for character building.  Individuals are encouraged to be fully responsible for their own acts and thoughts.  In the long run, this Forum shall be a ground for all LGBTQ to respect all individual and to live lives supporting each other.

 

Or, is the existence of BW is about sustainability and sacrificing the moral compass for unity?

 

 

[Guest Good moral Guest]

32 minutes ago, Guest Rethink said:

All these years, albeit Moderators set up Members' Lounge, why members still choose to post in Main Forum and not in the Members' Lounge? 

What could be the ultimate motives for doing so?

 

Has it to do with:

01.  Members anticipate for more readership (as Main Forum is right on top and easily accessible)?

02.  Members wish for the topic(s) to be dealt and discussed regardless of the risk for internet trolling by guests?

03.  That Members' Lounge has become a section for some hardcore shameless members to keep posting their sexual photos and

04.  That members become excessively obsessed with only sexual contents?

 

Could it be because of (03) and (04) that members choose to post their topics in Main?  While I support Mods for taking away all contents related (03) and (04), Members' Lounge should be taken seriously to minimize the ongoing troll and bickering.

 

For all those members who posted topics in the Main Forum (and not Members' Lounge), why do you do so?

Or, is the existence of BW is about sustainability and sacrificing the moral compass for unity?

 

 

How is member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth being strongly bombarded . That is where this topic should be thrown out of the house to avoid the pretentious of certain member standing on high moral ground. 

[Larry]

2 hours ago, Guest Good moral Guest said:

How is member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth being strongly bombarded . That is where this topic should be thrown out of the house to avoid the pretentious of certain member standing on high moral ground. 

 

Errors correction:

 

How is (M)ember more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth being strongly bombarded. That is (why) this topic should be thrown out of the house to avoid the pretentious of certain member(s) standing on high moral ground.  

 

But maybe the following sentence can be better,

How is Member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth to be debate & deliberation. That is why this topic should be thrown out of this forum to avoid the pretentious of certain members standing on high moral ground.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Larry

[singalion]

1. Thousand directions and ideas

It won't be helpful if we discuss every inch in detail. 25 People will have 18 different views and ideas. It will be difficult to agree on something for all.

We are different persons with different perceptions and different tolerance levels.

 

I think the Moderators are sufficiently smart to look for a proper naming of the Forums (be it Public Forum, Guest Forum or whatever) if they are open for any change.

 

2. Trial period

I thought of a trial period for BW too and just disallow any Guest posts for a certain period of time. But 2 months is maybe too short. I would stick to 6 months. Would be a good trial to know whether something had changed to the better.

 

3. Compromise proposal

For the compromise proposal I think I would suggest for the new Member Main Forum as the current first Main Forum to be merged together with the current Members' Lounge Forum inclusive of the current BW Main Forum, then create a new Forum (Guest and Newcomer) from scratch.

The type of topics at Main Forum and Members Lounge are not so differing and both contain sex related topics. There is still personals for all cruising and chasing discussions.

 

I m not sure if all the side regulations ("10 commandments" as nicked by Steve and other proposals), e.g if any thread exceeds 2 pages then to be moved to the Members Main Forum is not too complicated for the Moderators (and other rules too).

 

This is only a compromise for achieving a change and to find a solution.

I personally would still remain on my position to make the complete BW to a Member only Forum because if certain Guests can't behave in 10 or 15 years why should they suddenly behave now? Reasons I have given: To balance punishment measures between all sort of postings and to decrease permanent similar disruptions from trolls under Guest posts and actually anonymity is given at BW with a member account depending on the level of inserting personal details.

 

BW in my compromise idea would look as follows:

 

First Forum: Member Main Forum  (merged together from the existing BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge, only members can post)

Second Forum: Guest and Newcomer  (newly created, permits Guest posts)

Third Forum: Personals (Members only can post, no change)

[Larry]

2 hours ago, singalion said:

BW in my compromise idea would look as follows:

 

First Forum: Member Main Forum  (merged together from the existing BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge, only members can post)

Second Forum: Guest and Newcomer  (newly created, permits Guest posts)

Third Forum: Personals (Members only can post, no change)

 

I beg to differ,

 

His -------- First Forum: Member Main Forum  (merged together from the existing BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge, only members can post)

Mine ----- First Forum: Main Forum (same, same except remove all threads started by guests - send to Public Lounge, only members can post)

 

His -------- Second Forum: Guest and Newcomer  (newly created, permits Guest posts)

Mine ----- Second Forum: Public Lounge  (rename from Members' Lounge, carry all existing contents + contents removed from Main Forum, permits Guest & Member posts)

Edited May 27, 2020 by Larry

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Larry said:

 

But maybe the following sentence can be better,

How is Member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth to be debate & deliberation. That is why this topic should be thrown out of this forum to avoid the pretentious of certain members standing on high moral ground.

 

And how about this:

 

How is Member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth to be debated & deliberated. That is why this topic should be thrown out of this forum to avoid the pretentiousness (or pretension) of certain members standing on high moral ground.

 

   

.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Steve5380

[Guest oh oh]

4 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

And how about this:

 

How is Member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth to be debated & deliberated. That is why this topic should be thrown out of this forum to avoid the pretentious of certain members standing on high moral ground.

 

  

 

Aunty Larry does not like to be corrected!

[Steve5380]

Just now, Guest oh oh said:

 

Aunty Larry does not like to be corrected!

 

Ohhh...  I didn't know that!  Forgive me Larry for the correction.  That came from my little child inside  

[Guest Hazily Instructor]

7 hours ago, Larry said:

1. There should have not posting from guests in the current Members' Lounge. I had made a proposal to rename it to Public Lounge. Therefore it will be 100% member postings for the start.

2. Stay put member postings in renamed Public Lounge or move to Main Forum is to be decided by moderators. My purpose is minimizing the works. Anyway, there is no surprise to have both guests & members in Public Lounge.

 

If the Members Lounge becomes a Public Lounge ...... and the Main Forum becomes a Members Forum ...... I believe the current Members Lounge postings should be moved to the new Members Forum. Here's why ...... Many of those threads were posted there to intentionally avoid trolling guests -- while others were moved there by the Moderators due to trolling guests -- so they should remain in a room for members ...... and it would not be fair to suddenly open up those threads to guests when they were created (or moved) to avoid guests.

 

The idea by Singalion to merge the current Main Forum and current Members Lounge into a Members Only Main Forum ...... and then create a new Public Lounge ...... is more of the same but simply a different process. The new Public Lounge will still need content. It shouldn't start completely empty. So to give the new Public Lounge some volume ...... following the merger ...... all threads created before April 30 which have less than 10 replies could be moved to the Public Lounge. After that, people can add more to them, or create new threads.

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, singalion said:

 

2. Trial period

I thought of a trial period for BW too and just disallow any Guest posts for a certain period of time. But 2 months is maybe too short. I would stick to 6 months. Would be a good trial to know whether something had changed to the better.

 

 

A 6 month trial may be sufficient to introduce irreversible consequences, if the change was not for the better.

 

There could also be an alternative to a change in the forum: A CHANGE BY US THE POSTERS.

If we don't like guests who misbehave,  we have all the freedom to post in condemnation of them and making up for their misbehavior,

not simply by attacking them but by supporting their victims and encouraging them to ignore the misbehaving guests.

 

Of course it is easier if the Moderators do all the dirty work for us,  but if WE can handle the situation it could lead to some personal growth.  

[Guest oh oh]

18 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Ohhh...  I didn't know that!  Forgive me Larry for the correction.  That came from my little child inside  

 

LOL .. Naughty grandpa!

[Steve5380]

4 minutes ago, Guest oh oh said:

 

LOL .. Naughty grandpa!

 

Hey!  My little child inside is not any child, but lifelong ME! 

[Guest Leave BW alone]

So how? CB is making everyone looking stupid. I think we should all just move on and live our happy life accordingly, as each wishes. 

[upshot]

10 hours ago, Guest Rethink said:

All these years, albeit Moderators set up Members' Lounge, why members still choose to post in Main Forum and not in the Members' Lounge? 

What could be the ultimate motives for doing so?

 

Has it to do with:

01.  Members anticipate for more readership (as Main Forum is right on top and easily accessible)?

02.  Members wish for the topic(s) to be dealt and discussed regardless of the risk for internet trolling by guests?

03.  That Members' Lounge has become a section for some hardcore shameless members to keep posting their sexual photos and

04.  That members become excessively obsessed with only sexual contents?

 

Could it be because of (03) and (04) that members choose to post their topics in Main?  While I support Mods for taking away all contents related (03) and (04), Members' Lounge should be taken seriously to minimize the ongoing troll and bickering.

 

For all those members who posted topics in the Main Forum (and not Members' Lounge), why do you do so?

 

----------------

 

Should BW want to be responsible for being a forum that assists for doing good for LGBTQ, it should do away with guests.  By getting all guests to register, it is a form for character building.  Individuals are encouraged to be fully responsible for their own acts and thoughts.  In the long run, this Forum shall be a ground for all LGBTQ to respect all individual and to live lives supporting each other.

 

Or, is the existence of BW is about sustainability and sacrificing the moral compass for unity?

 

 

 

I personally think it is all about "REACH"

 

If I have something to say that could be best relayed to as wide a group of responders possible for whatever reason, be it good, bad or bitching. Thus if a member want to share or express something he goes naturally to the main thread section.

 

The only reason and why we end up with a segregation of thread area in members only and guest/members allowed is due to ABUSE from use of anonymity as a weapon that allows the troublemakers to avoid accountability.

 

I feel strongly that the main reason the member's only area is not just the above rationale BUT there are far fewer members that are actually in BW participating or are mainly readers or not daily regular. I see this happen with other interest forum I go to, over time it becomes the go-to site if I need certain answers. That is simply the maturing of a group or site. It's a natural cycle and dealing with solution to slow down the abuse by guest name troublemaker is not new in other forums and till the day the world decide that every has to have a mandatory IP address stuck to them like an Identity card. This will not be solve. So we can only do what we can to stamp this out. To say this will spell the end of BW.... I think that is thinking too far into the situation. When it happens, it happens. It has happen to the best of many things in life. Where there is a beginning birth, there is an ending death that will come.

We can only try to make that journey as pleasant as possible.

 

Simple as that. As I said before many times, this is not our house. We are guests and to that end act as a good guest to a gracious host.

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by upshot
typo and clarity

[Larry]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

And how about this:

 

How is Member more moral than Guest is something still very controversial and worth to be debated & deliberated. That is why this topic should be thrown out of this forum to avoid the pretentiousness (or pretension) of certain members standing on high moral ground.

 

   

.

 

Yes, big brother, you are correct, a big error in me on debated & deliberated.

 

Generally sentences where past participle like "to be delivered" or "to be given" is used after the verb "to be".

 

8 hours ago, Guest oh oh said:

 

Aunty Larry does not like to be corrected!

 

No, naughty you. A mistake is a mistake.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Larry

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

Yes, big brother, you are correct, a big error in me on debated & deliberated.

 

Generally sentences where past participle like "to be delivered" or "to be given" is used after the verb "to be".

 

 

No, naughty you. A mistake is a mistake.

 

 

Thank you, brother.  It takes honesty to accept having made a mistake,  no matter how small.

People much more powerful than us make horrible mistakes all the time and are too coward to admit it.  Especially in my country.

 

4 hours ago, upshot said:

 

I feel strongly that the main reason the member's only area is not just the above rationale BUT there are far fewer members that are actually in BW participating or are mainly readers or not daily regular. I see this happen with other interest forum I go to, over time it becomes the go-to site if I need certain answers. That is simply the maturing of a group or site. It's a natural cycle and dealing with solution to slow down the abuse by guest name troublemaker is not new in other forums and till the day the world decide that every has to have a mandatory IP address stuck to them like an Identity card. This will not be solve.

 

 

I agree with you.  Disallowing the guests could eliminate a large fraction of BW participants.  And the potential for troublemakers to roam with immunity will not be eliminated until every person who posts can be traced by the IP of the post, and by the particular email address used.  This is not the case today.  Even without "guests", nothing prevents the same person from registering multiple memberships with different email addresses and different IPs from proxy servers.

 

4 hours ago, upshot said:

 

So we can only do what we can to stamp this out. To say this will spell the end of BW.... I think that is thinking too far into the situation. When it happens, it happens. It has happen to the best of many things in life. Where there is a beginning birth, there is an ending death that will come.

 

 

It seems that you have the right state of mind to be the successful owner of a funeral home.

.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Steve5380

[Larry]

13 hours ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

If the Members Lounge becomes a Public Lounge ...... and the Main Forum becomes a Members Forum ...... I believe the current Members Lounge postings should be moved to the new Members Forum. Here's why ...... Many of those threads were posted there to intentionally avoid trolling guests -- while others were moved there by the Moderators due to trolling guests -- so they should remain in a room for members ...... and it would not be fair to suddenly open up those threads to guests when they were created (or moved) to avoid guests.

 

Yes, your argument sounds logical.

 

13 hours ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

The new Public Lounge will still need content. It shouldn't start completely empty. So to give the new Public Lounge some volume ...... following the merger ...... all threads created before April 30 which have less than 10 replies could be moved to the Public Lounge. After that, people can add more to them, or create new threads.

 

No, the Public Lounge will not be emptied if you moving in all threads in the current Main Forum started by guests. Reasons are two, first to allow continuation of these threads since were started by guests & to continue by guests / members, next is to prevent cessation of these threads for remaining in Main Forum but members has no interest to continue.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Larry

[singalion]

14 hours ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

 

If the Members Lounge becomes a Public Lounge ...... and the Main Forum becomes a Members Forum ...... I believe the current Members Lounge postings should be moved to the new Members Forum. Here's why ...... Many of those threads were posted there to intentionally avoid trolling guests -- while others were moved there by the Moderators due to trolling guests -- so they should remain in a room for members ...... and it would not be fair to suddenly open up those threads to guests when they were created (or moved) to avoid guests.

 

The idea by Singalion to merge the current Main Forum and current Members Lounge into a Members Only Main Forum ...... and then create a new Public Lounge ...... is more of the same but simply a different process. The new Public Lounge will still need content. It shouldn't start completely empty. So to give the new Public Lounge some volume ...... following the merger ...... all threads created before April 30 which have less than 10 replies could be moved to the Public Lounge. After that, people can add more to them, or create new threads.

 

This is quite correct.

Members choose to post at the Members' Lounge because they did not intend for Guests to interfere into their topics and simply only interact with other members (or eventually with the intent to avoid receiving nasty comments on their adventures (I explicitly omitted any adjective in front of adventures).

It would be a sort of betrayal to move these posts into a public area where Guests can post.

 

To resolve the issue, We can move the last two (three?) pages (most recent threads) of the current BW Main Forum into the new Newcomers and Guest Forum.

 

My other reason for the Merger of BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge is to reduce the duplicate threads in both current separated Forums.

Larry said, he begs to differ but actually did not say why.

Second: My aim is to make any switch as easy as possible to the Moderators. If they need to scroll through the open threads at the BW Main Forum and sort out all guest initiated threads, it would be quite cumbersome.

 

As said before and I want to repeat it again: This is only a compromise proposal for achieving a change and to find a solution for a new BW.

I personally would still stick to my position to make the complete BW to a Member only Forum.

Reasons:

- certain Guests have shown they have no interest to respect any manners or self regulation by BW (some for over 12 years);

- eradicate the existing imbalance on punishment measures between Members (warning, ban) and Guests (no real punishment for bad behaviour);

- decrease disruptions from trolls under Guest posts;

- no need for Guest posts as BW offers a great scope of anonymous member accounts with no personal details reflected.

 

 

BW in my new amended compromise idea considering new input from other postings would look as follows:

 

- First Forum: Member Main Forum  (merged together from the existing BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge, only members can post)

- Second Forum: Guest and Newcomer  (newly created, permits Guest posts) the existing most recently created two existing pages of the Main Forum to be merged into this new Forum    to provide some initial content for the Forum.

- Third Forum: Personals (Members only can post, no change)

[Larry]

5 hours ago, singalion said:

This is quite correct.

Members choose to post at the Members' Lounge because they did not intend for Guests to interfere into their topics and simply only interact with other members (or eventually with the intent to avoid receiving nasty comments on their adventures (I explicitly omitted any adjective in front of adventures).

It would be a sort of betrayal to move these posts into a public area where Guests can post.

 

The above statement by singalion is similar to Guest Hazily Instructor's one which was posted 16 hours ago, following is his statement:

 

If the Members Lounge becomes a Public Lounge ...... and the Main Forum becomes a Members Forum ...... I believe the current Members Lounge postings should be moved to the new Members Forum. Here's why ...... Many of those threads were posted there to intentionally avoid trolling guests -- while others were moved there by the Moderators due to trolling guests -- so they should remain in a room for members ...... and it would not be fair to suddenly open up those threads to guests when they were created (or moved) to avoid guests.

 

And this was my reply to him 5 hours ago, "Yes, your argument sounds logical.".

 

5 hours ago, singalion said:

To resolve the issue, We can move the last two (three?) pages (most recent threads) of the current BW Main Forum into the new Newcomers and Guest Forum.

 

My other reason for the Merger of BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge is to reduce the duplicate threads in both current separated Forums.

Larry said, he begs to differ but actually did not say why. 

 

Following was my reply relevant to the two proposals. 

 

On 5/27/2020 at 8:15 PM, Larry said:

I beg to differ,

 

His -------- First Forum: Member Main Forum  (merged together from the existing BW Main Forum and Members' Lounge, only members can post)

Mine ----- First Forum: Main Forum (same, same except remove all threads started by guests - send to Public Lounge, only members can post)

 

His -------- Second Forum: Guest and Newcomer  (newly created, permits Guest posts)

Mine ----- Second Forum: Public Lounge  (rename from Members' Lounge, carry all existing contents + contents removed from Main Forum, permits Guest & Member posts)

 

Corresponding to singalion's proposal on First Forum, I stated: same, same.... meaning same as his proposal. On his expectation that there shall have no duplication after the merger, my goodness, we probably need to employ full-time staff to go through all threads to achieve.

 

Anyway, if we relocate all threads started by guests to the Public Lounge (or the Guest and Newcomer Forum) which ever sounds nicer, 80% or even up to 90% of duplication problem in the same forum is resolved. I think is fine to have similar threads both in Main Forum & Public Lounge at the same time.

 

On the threads to fill up the new empty Public Lounge, I had my comment to Guest Hazily Instructor 6 hours ago.

 

No, the Public Lounge will not be emptied if you moving in all threads in the current Main Forum started by guests. Reasons are two, first to allow continuation of these threads since were started by guests & to continue by guests / members, next is to prevent cessation of these threads for remaining in Main Forum but members has no interest to continue.

 

Upon the new understanding that members may dislike guest participation on threads raised by them, I propose to amend my proposal, 

from: 

Second Forum: Public Lounge  (rename from Members' Lounge, carry all existing contents + contents removed from Main Forum, permits Guest & Member posts)

to:

Second Forum: Public Lounge  (rename from Members' Lounge, carry contents removed from Main Forum, permits Guest & Member posts)

 

With your intelligence, please see the difference.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Larry

[singalion]

5 hours ago, Since u r here said:

Been reading this thread since Day 1, felt Overly too-generous and (pretentiously) kind some of your comments! but for sure we are not here to argue & some replies ought to be ignored too (just like what Mods are good at) , but guests will stay so LONG u r in BW, face the reality pls! (despite all other forums dont usually entertain guests, have u ever ask why do we hae guests? Mods have NEVER ever ans that although they claimed they have)

U think why  were the Mods keeping quiet ever since this particular thread started? they r reflecting? they are definitely not consolidating your iinputs!!!!!!!!! Sad to say, they r awaiting for all (mbrs) to keep discussing till u r FULL, then they will 1-shot Lock this up after u have said ALL u want!! Tell me that u r not visualising they will take your good suggestions into consideration even though there are r new mods (old ones have exit) still we have been suggesting , it is NOT 2 years ago that similar sugg been suggested, it was just a few months ago or a year! i can remember it all

 

the answer to why we dont 韬光养晦 blindly, and let others insult us: if we are to stop feeding the trolls, then the systems must be in a way that there r NO trolls and insults allowed (if guests cant be removed and this & tht all cannot be removed too) then too bad....how sg can do it so well is by PoFMO and POFMO with extra stringent no freedom of certain speech

even for members, it has to be set for priority treatment (which is good that some of u suggested new mbrs)- eg after how many postings and how many years then can view certain thread eg not safe for work or involve legal/political content (just like the taiwanese site tt1069 - very good gay forum to emulate) 
Larry specifically quoted examples of who is being bullied (not once and stop blaming a human for being bullied, no1 is to be subjected to bullying and it is the role of Mods  (be it u like it or NOT) to stop all that and to create a friendly and professional discussion FOrum, not by purposely transf a thread from common thread to specific access thread, this is fucking unprofessional and not by killing or silencing the Poor  member so as to  stop all forms of acts taking place)

 

it is also naive to say that old ideas will be thrown out by the board, there is no board, sadly, only 1 who decides it all , worst the one still dare to announce who whistle blow!! 
All along members here know how to self-policing but many (guests or mbrs)  hated mbrs who raised points and raised issues (no matter how professionally raised , there r forever haters, ALWYS rem that) to Mods, and there is no perfect compromise, to one the member could be very patient but  else may NOT agree that he is polite and been enduring

sad to say, this is Sg, even Mods "decide" it all no matter how hard u tried: u can lock yourself in the sky and protest but this will be ignored

 

note: all the guests are still able to comment on the interests' dept and the flaming or miscellaneous group too! not a loss at all if they r totally rid off the other segments , they wont mind at all, it is the BW mastermind who mind! and some specific 1-2 members who are so generous to keep debating with guests! (none are interested , not even the Mods)

 

This is my reply to your post:

 

On 5/23/2020 at 3:33 PM, singalion said:

 

This is a very negative approach. I hope for you that in real life you don't carry this negativity with your for every venture you go.

 

If you always think nothing will change and every effort is wasted from start, not sure if you achieve anything in your life.

 

If anything had been set in stone, then Najib would be still the PM of Malaysia and probably Haile Selassie the King of Ethopia. (As much as I disliked the outcome,) Brexit would not have happened and section 377 (Criminalisation of gays) still applicable in Indian Criminal Law or other parts of the world...

 

You never know. Let the Moderators digest on this topic.

I m very sure the Moderators see for themselves what currently is not working well on BW and what is causing headache.

I don't think they would want the Forum to die off.

 

If the Moderators think they don't need change, then BW might end like Kodak, Nokia, Borders, Blackberry or Playboy.

 

Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

 

Wouldn't the Moderators have killed off this discussion if they are not interested to receive feedback or ideas on improving BW?
 

It might even be sooner or later in full consideration of the laws applicable, BW has no other choice as to go into a membership only Online Forum.

 

There might be some evolvement of events that will keep BW for no other option. You never know...

 

 

If I had applied the pessimism you voice here in your post, probably I would not have achieved anything in my life.

 

Never give up! think positive.

 

I could even say without Pink Dot and other gay Singaporean speaking out, maybe there would not have been any decision by the authorities not to proceed on 377A for consensual acts between two men.

But if I had applied your pessimism "Nothing will change..." as you voice here, probably people would be still arrested and charged in court on 377A.

 

No matter is hopeless.

 

By the way didn't you note: In all past discussions on this, the Moderators came out very fast to stop any discussion and close the thread.

 

 

It would be good if we can hear more voices from other members, people and not just from the usual "regulars" .

 

Guys, this is your chance to speak up! 

Edited May 28, 2020 by singalion
s

[Larry]

As I had mentioned right at the beginning of this thread, I knew nothing about this forum for almost a decade, until the recent ‘work from home’. It seems to me that you did have a bitter soured encounter from this forum previously, in particularly relating to the moderators.

 

Was the whole thing appear in one designated thread of the forum (just like this open letter)? You can choose not to answer if you feel uncomfortable. I will not proceed to ask further, assuming the whole thing evolved from private conversation.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Since u r here said:

I didnt stop anyone from speakin in fact let all of u sprout non-stop for the past week. Just that it will be cold storaged soon and i raised that:

 

-a v good experiment was suggested and

- members must have priority in the first place.

all our points was last mentioned in our last similar thread discussion (but cold turkeyd alrdy) mods will reply enugh said and blah blah blah(they will insisted they have read our same old suggestns countless time)

it is the same old mbrs kept repeating and debating (Can we let those purely who have not even participate this to speak all they want? Why did they keep quiet??! Could be they r guilty too , i can off hand list a long list of actively participating in bw mbrs but they choose nor to speak for weeks for the obv reasns)
- can we speak without being silenced off??? The issues is never with the mbrs (who r not guilty of acting or signing in as guests), it is with how the people calling the shots in bw!

 

 

i will let all those who have not speak to raise(but it is all u the regulars been speaking mah)! If not, it clearly show that no other mbrs r bothered....(it s the same few person who keep speaking non-stop and ended up allowing guests to.....) which is why i purposely let all to speak (not cos i m pessimistic)1st

i m not pessimistic , i m just handtied if i have the authority i will immed fire some moderators for creating a mess, but i dont wish to burden the remaining mods, so just have to endure! Is it so difficult for one to speakup??

 

i zoom in straight into the main issues, i don spend time on emotional issues like pessimism instead. who is the issue??! Fire immediately cos they have been a prick and a thorn for years hor- not that we didnt give chance.....

and i clearly indicated:

No1 shd ask one to shut up and to endure

 

 

 

It is nice of you to let all those who have not spoken to raise,  and you did let all of us sprout non-stop for the past week. Thank you!

(You will be "cold storaged" soon?  In a cryogenic suspension that will preserve your brain for all future generations?)

 

You are hand tied.  If you have the authority you will immediately fire some moderators for creating a mess.

You just have to endure.  ( Is it so difficult for you to speak up?   Well...  here you cannot speak up, all you can do is write down. )

 

You zoom-in straight to the main issues,  you don't spend time on emotional issues.  Who is the issue??!  Fire immediately.

(Isn't the issue rather a "what" than a "who"?  Should it be taken personally? )

 

No one should ask one to shut up and endure.  ( But...WHO is asking you to shut up and endure? ) 

 

He who could be able to make you shut up and endure...   must be a supernatural being with infinite power!  

.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

As I had mentioned right at the beginning of this thread, I knew nothing about this forum for almost a decade, until the recent ‘work from home’. It seems to me that you did have a bitter soured encounter from this forum previously, in particularly relating to the moderators.

 

Was the whole thing appear in one designated thread of the forum (just like this open letter)? You can choose not to answer if you feel uncomfortable. I will not proceed to ask further, assuming the whole thing evolved from private conversation.

 

Hi Larry,

 

It is remarkable how fast you captured and reacted to the issues in this forum,  after a decade of knowing nothing about them,  and... in only a couple of weeks (since the work from home).

May I suggest that you take a little longer,  maybe a year or two,  a period of adaptation to the forum as it is now,  away from a first impression,

and perhaps things may not look so gloomy after that.  I can tell you from experience that one gets used to the way things are, a much good mixed with some bad, and adapts to it. This is a good opportunity to cultivate tolerance for a little bad in the midst of much good.  This is a good preparation for the life outside this protected environment.

 

In normal life we have to confront much bad, and balance it out with the good we can bring to our life.  There are no "moderators" in real life who can change the world for us.

 

 

[Guest Overdosed Yourself]

13 hours ago, Larry said:

No, the Public Lounge will not be emptied if you moving in all threads in the current Main Forum started by guests. Reasons are two, first to allow continuation of these threads since were started by guests & to continue by guests / members, next is to prevent cessation of these threads for remaining in Main Forum but members has no interest to continue.

 

I think he was responding to the idea by Singalion to merge the Main Forum and Members Lounge, which would be at the top of the list, and then create a completely new Public Lounge. That means the completely new Public Lounge would be empty at the beginning, at least the way I read it, if they decide to adopt Singalion's idea.

 

The argument a lot of posters keep making is that whatever the Member Room is, it should be listed first and have the most threads, regardless of how that happens. Members should be the priority and guests should be encouraged to register as members. A Public Room can exist but guests should not get priority over members.

[Larry]

11 hours ago, singalion said:

It would be good if we can hear more voices from other members, people and not just from the usual "regulars" .

 

Guys, this is your chance to speak up! 

 

I believe at least to this topic, it will be much more quieter than now, as the circuit breaker is scheduled to be relaxed on coming Tuesday.

 

[Steve5380]

21 hours ago, Larry said:

 

I believe at least to this topic, it will be much more quieter than now, as the circuit breaker is scheduled to be relaxed on coming Tuesday.

 

 

Ahhh... it's already more quiet here.  How nice!  

 

It's much better that this respite happens due to the relaxing of the circuit breaker, rather than the tripping of the circuit breaker due to the overload of conflicting ideas.

[Guest Hazily Instructor]

One other issue the moderators can fix without causing much disruption is the quoted post function. Right now, when we quote a post, the entire quoted post shows up, no matter how long it is, and readers who don't want to see it need to click the arrow to close the quoted post.

 

I think the quoted post should be closed from the beginning, and then if anybody wants to see the quoted post, they can click the arrow to open it. That would make scrolling through these pages much cleaner and a whole lot less repetitive from people quoting really long posts.

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

Right now, when we quote a post, the entire quoted post shows up, no matter how long it is, and readers who don't want to see it need to click the arrow to close the quoted post.

 

Just look at what I had done when quoting your post. I did the deletion & kept those segments that I was going to reply.

 

And when I attend to another issue from the post, I re-quote & do the necessary tailoring. This is to allow readers to relate where I made that comment.

 

Nothing to do with the moderators, is more on individual discipline. Pure laziness, don't you agree?

Edited May 31, 2020 by Larry

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Just look at what I had done when quoting your post. I did the deletion & kept those segments that I was going to reply.

 

And when I attend to another issue from the post, I re-quote & do the necessary tailoring. This is to allow readers to relate where I made that comment.

 

Nothing to do with the moderators, is more on individual discipline. Pure laziness, don't you agree?

 

I agree Larry.  I see nothing wrong with the quoting system either. 

It could be improved, of course, like everything else.

One improvement could be to have the ability to split a quoted post into sub-posts, without having to do multiple re-quotes and edits.

Another improvement could be to be able to delete a complete post one made.

 

But these are minor details, not worth much attention.

[Guest God help me]

I am not getting it. You guys still want guests or trolls or not? Don't half half and then want and don't want liddat.  I hate playing jzzsaw puzzle here and wasting everyone precious time from more important things went the CB is loosened up. 

[Larry]

On 5/31/2020 at 3:21 PM, Guest God help me said:

I am not getting it. You guys still want guests or trolls or not? Don't half half and then want and don't want liddat.  I hate playing jzzsaw puzzle here and wasting everyone precious time from more important things went the CB is loosened up. 

 

Ask the moderators.

[Guest Overdosed Yourself]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:12 AM, Steve5380 said:

On 5/30/2020 at 9:24 PM, Larry said:

Just look at what I had done when quoting your post. I did the deletion & kept those segments that I was going to reply. And when I attend to another issue from the post, I re-quote & do the necessary tailoring. This is to allow readers to relate where I made that comment. Nothing to do with the moderators, is more on individual discipline. Pure laziness, don't you agree?

 

I agree Larry.  I see nothing wrong with the quoting system either. It could be improved, of course, like everything else. One improvement could be to have the ability to split a quoted post into sub-posts, without having to do multiple re-quotes and edits. Another improvement could be to be able to delete a complete post one made. But these are minor details, not worth much attention.

 

I actually agree with his point. You two have the discipline to trim quoted posts down to the bare minimum, I have the discipline, and I assume Hazily Instructor does as well, but 95% of the users here will never have that discipline, and the decision needs to be made for them.

 

The change he requested is actually very easy to do. The moderators simply need to switch the system settings for the arrow in front of quoted posts so it normally points in the 'closed' direction. Anybody who wants to read the quoted post can change it to the 'open' direction.

 

We have kept the posts we're quoting to the bare minimum during this exchange, but all too often, people quote entire stories, which are very long, in order to post a three or four word reply. It's very annoying and crowds the page. I hate having to sort through rudeness like that.

[yuquidam]

13 hours ago, Guest Overdosed Yourself said:

...but 95% of the users here will never have that discipline,....

The change he requested is actually very easy to do. The moderators simply need to switch the system settings for the arrow in front of quoted posts so it normally points in the 'closed' direction. Anybody who wants to read the quoted post can change it to the 'open' direction..

A suggestion worth looking into..

Edited June 4, 2020 by yuquidam

[Guest Loquacious Larry Laminator]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:55 AM, yuquidam said:

A suggestion worth looking into..

 

Seconded (or thirded, fourthed, fifthed, etc.).

[Larry]

"So how, is there anything going to change? Wasting our time." similar remarks bothered me frequently via private messages.

“Though I started this topic, but I’m not the moderator, I have no authority to make any change,” similar replies by me were repeated 
to all of them.

Some had also misunderstood my stand; I would want to take this opportunity to re-state my position once & for all.

#1. Main Forum is to be used by members only. Trolls, bickerings & politics are restricted.

#2. Public Lounge is mainly for guests use, however members do have the right to be around, if they are immune to abuse, trolls & bickerings. In another word, there is a wild wild west kind of environment here.

 

#3. Concerning multiple nicknames for both guests & members, so long this is in Public Lounge, it would be fine.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Larry

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

“So how, is there anything going to change? Wasting our time,” similar remarks bothered me frequently via private messages.

“Though I started this topic, but I’m not the moderator, I have no authority to make any change,” similar replies by me were repeated 
to all of them.

Some had also misunderstood my stand; I would want to take this opportunity to re-state my position once & for all.

#1. Main Forum is to be used by members only. Trolls, bickerings & politics are restricted.

#2. Public Lounge is mainly for guests use, however members do have the right to be around, if they are immune to abuse, trolls & bickerings. In another word, there is a wild wild west kind of environment here.

 

#3. Concerning multiple nicknames for both guests & members, so long this is in Public Lounge, it would be fine.

 

Hi Larry,

 

If I were a BW moderator,  which I am not,

 

I would look at your "Open Letter" thread and think:  "This is a nice collection of good ideas,  Larry deserves to be thanked for starting it",

and I would continue doing my regular tasks on the forum that are essential for it to work as well as it does.    

[Guest Ain't broken]

13 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Hi Larry,

 

If I were a BW moderator,  which I am not,

 

I would look at your "Open Letter" thread and think:  "This is a nice collection of good ideas,  Larry deserves to be thanked for starting it",

and I would continue doing my regular tasks on the forum that are essential for it to work as well as it does.    

I will just sleep over it and move on.  There are just too much thing to do in life, than to pander to a few and cause Humpty Dumpty to fall from the wall and then all the king’s horses and all the king’s men, couldn’t put Humpty together again.

 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest Ain't broken said:

I will just sleep over it and move on.  There are just too much thing to do in life, than to pander to a few and cause Humpty Dumpty to fall from the wall and then all the king’s horses and all the king’s men, couldn’t put Humpty together again.

 

 

Excellent summary!  

[singalion]

Dear Moderators:

 

Is there any conclusion on the proposals made by the people who scratched their heads for some good ideas on improvements to BW Forum?

 

Some time has lapsed, but I fail to see any reaction.

 

We would like to know if there are some takeaways from the Moderators?

 

Thank you,

[Guest Clean Smart Boy]

3 hours ago, singalion said:

Some time has lapsed, but I fail to see any reaction.

 

 

You still didn't get it, "No reaction" is the best reaction.  I see the takeaway as a joke.

[Larry]

Something amiss, I posted a message here on Wednesday evening but was found missing. The message was about this thread being quoted at The Flaming Room in another thread (on auto notification). 

 

[Guest Guest]

24 minutes ago, Larry said:

Something amiss, I posted a message here on Wednesday evening but was found missing. The message was about this thread being quoted at The Flaming Room in another thread (on auto notification). 

 

 

OMG... Looks like we are going to go through this princess process again... Kenna censored and then start whining and crying and then begging people for help and then get Moderators to fight each other again?? I didn't need any crystal balls to forsee this coming long time ago. That's why I just kept quiet and let things pan out naturally. If the princess crossdresser can be successful in sowing discord once and get people to bend the rules for her, she will climb over the heads of everyone and start manipulating everyone to get liking over and over again. And it was just a month or two ago that her lame thread on her Larry's life was almost deleted away. And now, this princess is trying to manipulate this forum to be run to her liking.... Lol! We will see more and more of her manipulative ways sooner or later. 

 

Let me guess what's coming next : her denial that she is trying to manipulate everyone to run the forum to her liking... 

[Larry]

Brief history & explanation for the poem《本是同根生，相煎何太急》

 

This is a history story. The author of this poem 曹植 was the younger brother of the king（曹丕). And what 曹丕 fear most was that his brother 曹植 would replace him. So 曹丕 planned to kill his brother, demanded 曹植 to make a poem within seven steps, otherwise would execute him. And 曹植 made this poem.

 

Direct translation of the poem:

本是同根生，相煎何太急？We are born of the selfsame root, why should you torment me so much?

 

Simplified translation:

相煎何太急 means that 曹植 was so sad that his brother wanted him dead soon. To some extent, 相煎 is a metaphor, indicating that his brother was so ruthless to persecute him ignoring the relationship of brother. In ancient chinese poem, what you need is to understand the meaning of whole sentences, and it is hard to explain some of the words.

 

Existence in this modern society environment:

At present moment, the poem has become popular phrases in Chinese speaking society, appeared on novels, newspaper, movies & TV dramas. There were abundant examples where the phrases were used, examples such as on political party in-fighting, disciples disputes, splitting in the clan association & etc., all for the sake of power struggling, financial gain, political career advancement or even chasing after the same girl & etc.

 

How the phrases went into this thread?

 

On 11/13/2019 at 11:19 PM, Guest Fan said:

You have been a member here for many years and contributed well with your story.  Do you feel that the forum is discriminating trans as some of them are complaining in another thread?

 

And my reply on November 15^th is as following:

Anywhere, any places not excluding this forum, this is a vicious world, the straights look down on gays, and the gays look down on us, the cross-dressers & transsexuals.

Me & my fellow sisters are so use to this, 'ah qua', 'bapok' etc. etc., so what? No big deal.

本是同根生，相煎何太急？We are born of the selfsame root, Why should you torment me so much?

Here came the nuisance

 

On Monday 14th this week one faceless so-called “Guest” came with the following comments:

And this actually came from someone who wrote some big long "open letter" to ask for discrimination of the Guests from Members, right here on this forum just a couple of months back? And there she was, talking something about "本是同根生，相煎何太急"??? 

 

… and he added the following,

One word: HYPOCRISY. 

 

My first observation

 

1.    He attacked me on my other thread “An Open Letter”, that I asked to discriminate Guests from Members.

2.   In my first maiden post, I proposed nothing. I told GM to adopt 'live & let live', this is a real world with all kind of people, including the lonely ghosts (孤魂野鬼) such as you. Up to them, want to bicker, so be it. We should not stop them, let them show us how low their IQ.

3.    I bet you to locate if there is a single discrimination on my maiden post, and I allow you to place 50 cents bet against my $1000 offer, ha-ha...

4.   It was actually Guest Hazily Instructor (16 May) made the proposal.

5.   I seconded him & gave a counter proposal: redefine Main Forum for members only & replace Members' Lounge to Guests' Lounge.

 

If you deemed that Guests’ Lounge is a form of discrimination on you, just too bad for your narrow minded-ness, as the idea was originated by another guest, i.e. Hazily Instructor. Goodness, guest verses another guest, LOL….

 

You should know the purpose of such proposal & be appreciative; it is for people such like you enjoy posting all kinds of trolling post.

 

Quoting herewith a statement from Steve5380 for your consumption,

 

It's true.  We can never be sure who a "guest" is.  "Guest Guest" can be a multitude of people, or just one name of a person who posts with hundreds of them.  It is synonymous with deception, with hiding in some darkness that may come from fear or from some sick compulsion.

This is one of several reasons why whatever comes out of "guest" trolls is not worth any consideration, except maybe some interesting speculation of what sickness the troll has.  

 

And another quote from singalion,

 

It doesn't make sense to discuss with you any further because it doesn't lead to anything due to your limited pre-conceived mindset. 

 

My next observation

 

You were quick to pick on the quote 本是同根生 whereas I asked you a question: Are you feather of the same flock?

My intention is simple, i.e. not because you participate in this forum (disregarding contributing or not), you will become one of us, the so-called LGBT community automatically.

Not for me, that you fail to meet my choice. I'm a 'class' person, a class not on whether you are poor or rich, but rather on your character, personality & integrity.

Who are you? Do you have a sound mind? Do you have a proper job?

 

Your ultimate intention

 

1.    To troll as much as possible in this forum. This is your way to kill your time.

2.   To agitate everybody & to achieve thread being lock-up by the moderator.

 

My conclusion

 

I will not response to you further, because you are simply not my ‘class’.

I will not care if the thread get lock-up or not, similarly for another thread Forbidden Attraction too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Bystander]

I don't quite understand the whole story here.. I do understand there are regular members who love to play "ping pong" with guests (troll or non troll).  Yes, almost quite indefinitely and you would have wished either party just stop doing what they were doing.  I find some members here can be quite irritating too. They felt so stimulated to engage in angry fight  with guests in every single bickering post they came across. No one can win a ghost writer, and the best fight is to ignore its existence. With that I believed member should bore the blame no less. I think it has to do with age.  The older one gets, the more they tried to win , at all costs in every argument. Ego is the greatest bitch of all disaster. I saw these happening in real life, in our neighbourhood area and coffee shops. Uncles engaging in fist fight , out of the blue is not uncommon. This forum is no difference.  There is no reason to close coffee shops or barricade the whole neighborhood because of a few trouble makers.  Just beware of their existence and stay out of their sight. 

 

Peace.

 

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Guest Bystander said:

I don't quite understand the whole story here.. I do understand there are regular members who love to play "ping pong" with guests (troll or non troll).  Yes, almost quite indefinitely and you would have wished either party just stop doing what they were doing.  I find some members here can be quite irritating too. They felt so stimulated to engage in angry fight  with guests in every single bickering post they came across. No one can win a ghost writer, and the best fight is to ignore its existence.

 

 

You don't quite understand.  But can you please explain why members should force ourselves to ignore posts by guests? If they are allowed to post, and one has a good answer to their posts,  what is wrong in doing so?   If at all, fault could be placed in allowing guests to post.  But if their posts warrant an answer sometimes, where is the harm?

 

I would like to understand one thing.  Why you need to post as an unidentifiable "guest" instead of taking on a still anonymous personality here as a member,  and become, say,  "Bystander"?  What are you afraid of?

[Guest Bystander]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You don't quite understand.  But can you please explain why members should force ourselves to ...

See what I meant? I knew my post would attract member, in this case, to challenge me.  If I tried to keep engaging with the above non stop , it will never end and I know this member will never give up wanting to be stimulated with argument  , like playing ping ping ball.  This happened in larry's other story thread. 

 

So I am going to set a good example here. Simply ignore further debate with him and consider this as my last post here. Only then, I hope this member can disappear from bickering non stop to keep this place tidy. I hope he did the same with other guests too.

 

Bye!