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The amazing Cirque du Soleil declares Bankruptcy


InBangkok

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In one of the most depressing pieces of news from the entertainment and arts business devastated by closures resulting from covid19, Cirque du Soleil has been forced to declare bankruptcy.

 

The company which started as a group of cinema queue buskers in Montreal about 35 years ago grew to become the world's second largest entertainment company after Disney. Each year it sells more tickets that for all of New York's Broadway shows combined. As Forbes magazine wrote last year, Cirque was "one of the most profitable and famous pieces of performance art of the last century,"

 

The basis of its success in its early years were the touring shows in mega tents. At least two played in Singapore for several weeks each. But it is the company's permanent shows that were its biggest expenditure and by far its biggest profit centres. In Las Vegas alone it has six massive permanent shows, all but one performing in large theatres built especially for the company. So large are the stages and so comp[lex the technology that these show could never tour. 

 

I am thrilled that I have seen three of them. The first was 'O', a water-based show at the Bellagio Hotel that opened in 1999 and was still playing until closed due to covid19. At the time I felt it was the finest 90 minutes of pure entertainment I had ever seen. A few years later I saw "Love" at The Mirage based entirely on the songs of The Beatles in a surround theatre with the original songs newly digitised, and "Ka" on an enormous stage at the MGM Grand Hotel. Never before or since have I seen stage technology as extraordinary and stunning as during "Ka". This included a vertical fight sequence!

 

This may not be the end of Cirque du Soleil, though. The company is alleged to have debts of US$1 billion which can now be restructured. If the existing owners put up more cash and new investors are found, hopefully the company will be back with all its shows and other new ones once performers and audiences can return to its theatres.

 

This short video gives an idea of the technology behind "Ka".

 

 

 

Edited by InBangkok
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Guest StripTease Artist

Is this outdated news?  I thought they were gone decade ago.  Hardly see them around for many years. This pandemic has put many entertainment industry out of busineses.  I fear for Wild Rice in Singapore.

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The news is only a few hours old. For many years now Cirque has concentrated its efforts on developing permanent mega shows in places like Las Vegas. It only has a few touring shows and these usually play in the same place for 2 or 3 months.

 

Back in the mid-1990s it opened an Asian office in Singapore to coordinate what was planned to be Asian touring. But this was before the Las Vegas hotels were desperate for permanent shows in theatres to Cirque's designs they built attached to their properties. It still tours but there was not enough demand in Asia and so the Singapore office closed after a few years. They still had shows touring in Asia (two have been to Bangkok in the last 4 years) but they are very much scaled down versions of "Alegria" and "Saltimbanco" which toured Asia are than 20 years ago. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/29/business/cirque-du-soleil-bankruptcy/index.html

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2 hours ago, Guest StripTease Artist said:

This pandemic has put many entertainment industry out of busineses.  I fear for Wild Rice in Singapore.

 

The arts, entertainment and culture industries have been savaged by the virus. They are all people-oriented businesses and the performers, actors, musicians, dancers etc. mostly get paid very little even when performing. It takes many years to build an orchestra. Few if any around the world have performed since early March. 

 

Oxford Economics recently suggested the UK was facing a "cultural catastrophe" with a loss of US$90 billion in revenues and 400,000 jobs as a result of covid19. One of the world's most successful theatre owners and producers believes that because of social distancing theatres will not open until Spring next year. Sir Cameron Mackintosh has had to close four musical blockbusters - "Les Miserables", "Phantom of the Opera", "Hamilton" and "Mary Poppins" in London. His group owns eight theatres in London's West End. So far, Britain has offered nothing to help the sector get back on its feet. Compare this with Germany where as early as March the government offered €50 billion to the arts sector with the promise of more.

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Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo

All these are non essential items. They only allow buinessess selling basic essentials during lockdown. Even Telcos not considered necessary, considering how many people was using zoom to group chat.

 

Even those big pop stars cannot play concerts. 

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16 hours ago, InBangkok said:

In one of the most depressing pieces of news from the entertainment and arts business devastated by closures resulting from covid19, Cirque du Soleil has been forced to declare bankruptcy.

 

 

It's amazing that such a successful company 36 years old had to declare bankruptcy simply because of four months of zero income.  Have the owners, shareholders milked the company so badly?   And why did they have to carry a one billion dollars debt?

 

I have no sympathy for the company, but a lot if it for the thousands who are left jobless.  Hopefully they keep training during this off time and don't give up on their skills.

 

 

13 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

The arts, entertainment and culture industries have been savaged by the virus. They are all people-oriented businesses and the performers, actors, musicians, dancers etc. mostly get paid very little even when performing. It takes many years to build an orchestra. Few if any around the world have performed since early March. 

 

Oxford Economics recently suggested the UK was facing a "cultural catastrophe" with a loss of US$90 billion in revenues and 400,000 jobs as a result of covid19. One of the world's most successful theatre owners and producers believes that because of social distancing theatres will not open until Spring next year. Sir Cameron Mackintosh has had to close four musical blockbusters - "Les Miserables", "Phantom of the Opera", "Hamilton" and "Mary Poppins" in London. His group owns eight theatres in London's West End. So far, Britain has offered nothing to help the sector get back on its feet. Compare this with Germany where as early as March the government offered €50 billion to the arts sector with the promise of more.

 

7 hours ago, Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo said:

All these are non essential items. They only allow buinessess selling basic essentials during lockdown. Even Telcos not considered necessary, considering how many people was using zoom to group chat.

 

 

This is true.  The arts are not essential items.  In these days of pandemic the resources should concentrate on the essential:  food and medical care.

It might be a good idea for a young person to choose a skill, an activity that is essential. 

A mediocre doctor, a mediocre nurse will always find work.  But an excellent musician can easily starve.

 

400,000 jobs lost in arts, entertainment and culture industries!   These 400,000 may have to change careers to engineers, technicians, workers engaged in making society more energy efficient and combat climate change.  And here in the US,  to repair our crumbling infrastructure.

 

Fortunately we still have the Internet and millions of videos about art, entertainment. 

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14 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

The arts, entertainment and culture industries have been savaged by the virus. They are all people-oriented businesses and the performers, actors, musicians, dancers etc. mostly get paid very little even when performing. It takes many years to build an orchestra. Few if any around the world have performed since early March. 

 

Oxford Economics recently suggested the UK was facing a "cultural catastrophe" with a loss of US$90 billion in revenues and 400,000 jobs as a result of covid19. One of the world's most successful theatre owners and producers believes that because of social distancing theatres will not open until Spring next year. Sir Cameron Mackintosh has had to close four musical blockbusters - "Les Miserables", "Phantom of the Opera", "Hamilton" and "Mary Poppins" in London. His group owns eight theatres in London's West End. So far, Britain has offered nothing to help the sector get back on its feet. Compare this with Germany where as early as March the government offered €50 billion to the arts sector with the promise of more.

Welcome to my world.... I am still stuck at home on standby by my company.

** Comments are my opinions, same as yours. It's not a 'Be-All-and-End-All' view. Intent's to thought-provoke, validate, reiterate and yes, even correct. Opinion to consider but agree to disagree. I don't enjoy conflicted exchanges, empty bravado or egoistical chest pounding. It's never personal, tribalistic or with malice. Frank by nature, means, I never bend the truth. Views are to broaden understanding - Updated: Nov 2021.

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6 hours ago, upshot said:

Welcome to my world.... I am still stuck at home on standby by my company.

 

I'm not sugesting in any way that someone working for Cirque du Soleil is more valuable than anyone else who has been severely affected by covid19. The only point I'll make is that the tourism element of Cirque is worth many billions. Las Vegas successfully reinvented itself as a family destination and away from merely a gambling mecca. The presence of the Cirque shows and the dozens of other non Cirque shows in Las Vegas is a vital key to that strategy, of attracting huge conventions and filling its 150,000 hotel rooms. That's almost 140% more than hotel rooms in Singapore.

 

The same is true to a certain extent in London and New York. In 2018/19 2.79 million international tourists visited a Broadway show. The revenues generated may not be all that high. But when you factor in all the wages paid to the casts, the backstage staffs, the theatre staffs, the scenery and costume makers, advertising companies and others, the entertainment business is quite heavily affected by covid 19.

 

7 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

It's amazing that such a successful company 36 years old had to declare bankruptcy simply because of four months of zero income.  Have the owners, shareholders milked the company so badly?   And why did they have to carry a one billion dollars debt?

 

Welcome to the world of large business corporations - as Cirque is. All have long lines of credit and all invest heavily in future product. Exactly the same with Cirque du Soleil. Cirque has a huge purpose built headquarters in Montreal where all its new productions are gradually developed and rehearsed over long gestation periods. Add in the loss of revenues from shows in 1,500+ seat theatres playing 10 times a week with average ticket prices around $100 since early March plus continuing to pay employees wages and $1 billion is quite quickly reached.

 

7 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Hopefully they keep training during this off time and don't give up on their skills.

 

. . . 400,000 jobs lost in arts, entertainment and culture industries!   These 400,000 may have to change careers to engineers, technicians, workers engaged in making society more energy efficient and combat climate change.  And here in the US,  to repair our crumbling infrastructure.

 

Fortunately we still have the Internet and millions of videos about art, entertainment. 

 

On the one hand you hope they don't give up their skills. On the other you say they can become engineers etc. That makes little sense. You expect a 60 year cellist who started learning his instrument aged around 10 or so and made music his life can suddenly turn around and train as an engineer? Sorry, but that makes no sense and almost certainly could not work. Who is going to hire a 60 year old to train as an engineer?

 

You then move on to the USA's crumbling infrastructure. I agree. It is crumbling in a disastrous way and no government does anything about it. But you also seem to forget that the USA has tens of millions of unemployed and under-employed men and women who exist on government food stamps and other hand outs. Surely they deserve first call on any long-term jobs repairing infrastructure?

  

Edited by InBangkok
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1. Cirque du Soleil is one those Blueocean "case study" of how Innovative Entrepreneurs re-inventing old business.  

 

Renée Mauborgne (INSEAD Professor and author of Blueocean book) wrote:  "It’s generally believed that the way to beat your rival is to outperform or outpace them. But in business, the better way to win is to create uncontested new market space where no competition exists."  

https://qz.com/366601/this-is-how-cirque-du-soleil-reinvented-the-circus/

 

2. Hope that they have a second act and re-invent their business a second time.

 

3. From some of the reports https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53221516 it seems they will survive but under new management.

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, HendryTan said:

1. Cirque du Soleil is one those Blueocean "case study" of how Innovative Entrepreneurs re-inventing old business.  

 

I also hope they will survive. It's fascinating, I think, how they started and reinvented what was a dying performance art - the circus. The founder and some of his friends were basically acrobats, jugglers, fire-eaters and the like who started off in the early 1980s simply by busking - entertaining crowds waiting to get into cinemas and theatres. Word got around that they were very good. Then they realised that the city of Quebec was celebrating its 450th anniversary in 1984. This gave them the idea of expanding and doing a special theatrical show for the anniversary. So they went to the City of Quebec to see if they could get a grant. The official they met, Jacques Renaud, asked for a copy of their business plan. No one had any idea what a business plan was! So Renaud offered to write one for them. As a result they got their grant. A few years later, Renaud gave up his government job and became  a senior management figure in the Cirque hierarchy.

 

The next problem was what to call themselves. They realised they were basically circus acts but they had no animals. So for several years they used that as their 'calling card' - circus without animals. Of course few had any idea what this could mean. A circus by definition had to have animals. But the idea took off.

 

At the Montreal headquarters, they employ about 1,500 staff.

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11 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

I'm not sugesting in any way that someone working for Cirque du Soleil is more valuable than anyone else who has been severely affected by covid19. The only point I'll make is that the tourism element of Cirque is worth many billions. Las Vegas successfully reinvented itself as a family destination and away from merely a gambling mecca. The presence of the Cirque shows and the dozens of other non Cirque shows in Las Vegas is a vital key to that strategy, of attracting huge conventions and filling its 150,000 hotel rooms. That's almost 140% more than hotel rooms in Singapore.

 

 

I make this observation from earlier on when large companies started dropping like flies since the lockdown. It is a very telling sign given the speed of this epidermic and duration.. that any company suffering cash flow problems will wave the white flag and give up... but when you see established big companies just fold branches upon branches or entire corporations.. it tells you how thin a profit margin their business model is all these time. Anything that offset that flow like even a month or so and it all down the drain. This is a time where the weak or the least prepared are weeded out. Life's like be it a person or a corporation who is caught with their pants down. It's a vicious cycle but life goes on. Too big to fail? What goes up, must come down. Always good to be prepared like the scouts' motto.

 

While I wait to be back to work, I am also looking over my shoulder for another possible job change if things goes south....just in case.

Edited by upshot

** Comments are my opinions, same as yours. It's not a 'Be-All-and-End-All' view. Intent's to thought-provoke, validate, reiterate and yes, even correct. Opinion to consider but agree to disagree. I don't enjoy conflicted exchanges, empty bravado or egoistical chest pounding. It's never personal, tribalistic or with malice. Frank by nature, means, I never bend the truth. Views are to broaden understanding - Updated: Nov 2021.

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54 minutes ago, upshot said:

 

I make this observation from earlier on when large companies started dropping like flies since the lockdown. It is a very telling sign given the speed of this epidermic and duration.. that any company suffering cash flow problems will wave the white flag and give up... but when you see established big companies just fold branches upon branches or entire corporations.. it tells you how thin a profit margin their business model is all these time. Anything that offset that flow like even a month or so and it all down the drain. This is a time where the weak or the least prepared are weeded out. Life's like be it a person or a corporation who is caught with their pants down. It's a vicious cycle but life goes on. Too big to fail? What goes up, must come down. Always good to be prepared like the scouts' motto.

 

 

We see the evil of keeping very thin profit margins.  Some companies reinvest their profits in new adventures for growth or distribute it to their shareholders as dividends. 

 

Individuals can also keep thin margins even with good jobs by investing in ever bigger houses or other real estate, buying private planes, yachts,  while keeping little cash at hand.  Then a pandemic comes, their income is reduced to zero, and they are in trouble.

 

There is no reason why a profitable enterprise like Cirque du Soleil has to fold after only 4 months of zero income. 

 

 

11 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

Welcome to the world of large business corporations - as Cirque is. All have long lines of credit and all invest heavily in future product. Exactly the same with Cirque du Soleil. Cirque has a huge purpose built headquarters in Montreal where all its new productions are gradually developed and rehearsed over long gestation periods. Add in the loss of revenues from shows in 1,500+ seat theatres playing 10 times a week with average ticket prices around $100 since early March plus continuing to pay employees wages and $1 billion is quite quickly reached.

 

On the one hand you hope they don't give up their skills. On the other you say they can become engineers etc. That makes little sense. You expect a 60 year cellist who started learning his instrument aged around 10 or so and made music his life can suddenly turn around and train as an engineer? Sorry, but that makes no sense and almost certainly could not work. Who is going to hire a 60 year old to train as an engineer?

  

 

Those acrobats, jugglers, fire-eaters and the like are only a fraction of the people losing their jobs,  and they most probably will keep cultivating their skills.

 

It makes a lot of sense that engineers, cellists have sufficient intelligence to venture beyond their primary occupation.  I am an engineer, but if need would arise I could retrain as a violinist following the 10 years I studied this instrument as a child and  join a professional orchestra.  I can do it at 70+,  but I prefer to enjoy my free time since my margin of profit was not eaten up during my productive days but I can live decades more without moving a finger. 

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Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo
On 7/1/2020 at 4:09 AM, Steve5380 said:

Met some of these celebrities and pop stars before. To be honest, I wished I never did. Is it to much to ask them to be nice to fans ie the people who pay for their products and services? No sympathies for these people who ddon't sell as many records as before.

 

On 7/1/2020 at 4:09 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

 

 

 

This is true.  The arts are not essential items.  In these days of pandemic the resources should concentrate on the essential:  food and medical care.

It might be a good idea for a young person to choose a skill, an activity that is essential. 

A mediocre doctor, a mediocre nurse will always find work.  But an excellent musician can easily starve.

 

400,000 jobs lost in arts, entertainment and culture industries!   These 400,000 may have to change careers to engineers, technicians, workers engaged in making society more energy efficient and combat climate change.  And here in the US,  to repair our crumbling infrastructure.

 

Fortunately we still have the Internet and millions of videos about art, entertainment. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo said:

 

Met some of these celebrities and pop stars before. To be honest, I wished I never did. Is it to much to ask them to be nice to fans ie the people who pay for their products and services? No sympathies for these people who ddon't sell as many records as before.

 

 

The problem of celebrities is that they cannot possibly give enough attention to their fans because they are too many of them.  So we fans become an amorphous mass of humanity focused on them.   Also the qualities of celebrities that make them famous are not necessarily the being nice to others.

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12 hours ago, upshot said:

it tells you how thin a profit margin their business model is all these time. Anything that offset that flow like even a month or so and it all down the drain. This is a time where the weak or the least prepared are weeded out.

 

Strong companies can also go through weak times. Steve 5380 says he cannot understand why a company like Cirque should enter bankruptcy protection after only four months. It is not folding - merely seeking temporary protection from its creditors. I have no clue about the company's finances, but I have seen this before. Mark McCormack was another business innovator. He invented what has become a massive new world-wide industry - athlete representation and sports marketing. Back in the 1960s he was approached by the now legendary golfer Arnold Palmer. There were no agents for sportsman and women in those days. Palmer was extremely popular and often asked to play special matches, attend corporate events etc. He asked McCormack, a lawyer and a golfer, if he would look after his business affairs.

 

After a year, McCormack was representing the three most bankable names in golf - Palmer, Gary Player and Jack Nicklaus. Within a few years he had expanded into other sports. Quickly he realised that sports involved a great deal more than negotiating fees - travel, television rights, event management, corporate hospitality, financial advice to clients etc. By 1990, he was hailed in the media as the "King of Sports" and his company International Management Group, had offices in more than 40 cities around the world and was pulling in a great deal of cash each year. It had also diversified into a number of other ventures, including a model agency and book publishing.

 

After a very large downturn after 9/11, the business started humming again. Then in 2003, just after negotiating a $200 million bank loan for a new venture, he suddenly died aged 72. Although, like Cirque, IMG was packed with a team of close and very bright lieutenants, the business soon was in financial trouble - even though it had some of the world's best superstars on its books, like the young Tiger Woods. IMG had remained a tightly controlled family company. Eventually the few shareholders realised they could not keep the company going and sold it for a lot less than its true worth. Shit happens everywhere for lots of reasons!

 

10 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

It makes a lot of sense that engineers, cellists have sufficient intelligence to venture beyond their primary occupation.  I am an engineer, but if need would arise I could retrain as a violinist following the 10 years I studied this instrument as a child and  join a professional orchestra.  I can do it at 70+

 

I don't like to disagree with you, Steve5380, but if you think you can suddenly take up the violin after not having touched it for half a century or so and become so proficient on the instrument you can join a professional orchestra, you are in some kind of cloud cuckoo land! Music colleges and conservatoires churn out many more violinists than can gain entrance to the world's professional orchestras. Even if you have practised for 3 or 4 hours a day in the interim, (which with respect I seriously doubt) you would be competing in a pool of far better qualified players. Just a fact of life.

Edited by InBangkok
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19 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

I don't like to disagree with you, Steve5380, but if you think you can suddenly take up the violin after not having touched it for half a century or so and become so proficient on the instrument you can join a professional orchestra, you are in some kind of cloud cuckoo land! Music colleges and conservatoires churn out many more violinists than can gain entrance to the world's professional orchestras. Even if you have practised for 3 or 4 hours a day in the interim, (which with respect I seriously doubt) you would be competing in a pool of far better qualified players. Just a fact of life.

 

 

Well, if I audition and don't get the job in the orchestra,  I can try it out on my own.  I can have an act where I play the violin and at the same time sing!

Now if it comes to singing,  I can change during the act to playing the piano and sing.  This combination can sound much better... 🎵 :) 

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4 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Well, if I audition and don't get the job in the orchestra,  I can try it out on my own.  I can have an act where I play the violin and at the same time sing!

Now if it comes to singing,  I can change during the act to playing the piano and sing.  This combination can sound much better... 🎵 :) 

 

Let me know on which street corner I can find you and I'll drop a nickel into your hat. Come to think of it, I'll make it a $10 bill for showing such guts! 😲 Good luck! 

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8 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

Let me know on which street corner I can find you and I'll drop a nickel into your hat. Come to think of it, I'll make it a $10 bill for showing such guts! 😲 Good luck! 

 

Since you are so nice,  I might send you a ticket for the opening night of my performance "Steve has Talent" in New York.  :D

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1 minute ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Since you are so nice,  I might send you a ticket for the opening night of my performance "Steve has Talent" in New York.  :D

 

👍

 

Carnegie Hall, I assume. And I'll take you for dinner afterwards. I would have suggested the Cafe des Artistes on 67th Street as befitting your new status, but sadly it's been closed for about 10 years. Sardi's?

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Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo
11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The problem of celebrities is that they cannot possibly give enough attention to their fans because they are too many of them.  So we fans become an amorphous mass of humanity focused on them.   Also the qualities of celebrities that make them famous are not necessarily the being nice to others.

Yes, they should stop inviting fans for personal autograph sessions, if they aren't in the mood.  From a fan's perspective, I don't like my idol to greet me with a black face.

 

If they don't feel like singing on concert day, just cancel show and refund the fans' hard earned money. Don't be like Madonna and keep fans around the globe waiting 3 to 4 hours for a show. It's a blatant lack of respect.  Thank goodness, we don't have to buy CDs and DVDs anymore!

 

Anyway, the Circuit Breaker has shown me that I can do witthout many things.

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10 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

👍

 

Carnegie Hall, I assume. And I'll take you for dinner afterwards. I would have suggested the Cafe des Artistes on 67th Street as befitting your new status, but sadly it's been closed for about 10 years. Sardi's?

 

Sardi's will be fine.  I don't frequent restaurants,  but I will be hungry and tired,  my right arm from the bowing,  my fingers from the piano, and my throat from singing.

 

11 minutes ago, Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo said:

 

Anyway, the Circuit Breaker has shown me that I can do witthout many things.

 

My confinement has the same effect.  I realize that there is very little I need to do without,  because I have everything at home. 

I am happy to have no reasons to leave the house (except for going to my gym and the grocery store), 

and I enjoy being the owner of all my time  :) 

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10 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

Strong companies can also go through weak times. Steve 5380 says he cannot understand why a company like Cirque should enter bankruptcy protection after only four months. It is not folding - merely seeking temporary protection from its creditors. I have no clue about the company's finances, but I have seen this before. Mark McCormack was another business innovator. He invented what has become a massive new world-wide industry - athlete representation and sports marketing. Back in the 1960s he was approached by the now legendary golfer Arnold Palmer. There were no agents for sportsman and women in those days. Palmer was extremely popular and often asked to play special matches, attend corporate events etc. He asked McCormack, a lawyer and a golfer, if he would look after his business affairs.

 

Nah I was talking in general but if you  want to talk about bankruptcy practices in the US... something I am too familiar especially in the 90s where this was not really about being broke and out of business but as you mentioned for rich fucks to protect their wealth or escape their responsibility to pay out. I can't recall these companies now but many were well known. Companies may have file for chapter 11 but their owners are still living large and kept all their money and property. This was as popular a practice as those who hide money in offshore islands like the Caribbeans.

 

Company or person should always strive to have enough fund to last at least 6 months. Just like that is this thread in BW which just got rehashed about should you have 6 months of salary in case you are out of work for some reasons like say retrenchment, firing...etc And I am one who always practice this as the defacto standard derived from learning about this 30 years ago and that has helped me thru some tough times but 6 months worth of salary accumulated is a good minimum just in case.

** Comments are my opinions, same as yours. It's not a 'Be-All-and-End-All' view. Intent's to thought-provoke, validate, reiterate and yes, even correct. Opinion to consider but agree to disagree. I don't enjoy conflicted exchanges, empty bravado or egoistical chest pounding. It's never personal, tribalistic or with malice. Frank by nature, means, I never bend the truth. Views are to broaden understanding - Updated: Nov 2021.

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Guest rubbing off

There is a tearing off factor. people don't visit Disney Land more than once ( at least most won't). The same goes for shows like Cirque de Soleil. You watched it once or twice but then... it's enough. Such operators must attract interested first timers at every location to fill the tent. 

 

The second problem I see, Netflix, Youtube are diluting potential customers to make a visit. Why should I pay 250 $ for a show I can watch at home for free?

 

The web is spoiling many arts events. Recently with Covid it's getting worse, well known museums opened doors on their exhibitions throw guided online tours. If this is going to be the norm then...

 

I think the insolvency was just a means for the company behind Cirque du Soleil to avoid potential repercussions for the Directors in having continued operating while clearly being insolvent. We will see if the shows will go on...

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2 hours ago, Guest rubbing off said:

There is a tearing off factor. people don't visit Disney Land more than once ( at least most won't). The same goes for shows like Cirque de Soleil. You watched it once or twice but then... it's enough. Such operators must attract interested first timers at every location to fill the tent. 

 

The second problem I see, Netflix, Youtube are diluting potential customers to make a visit. Why should I pay 250 $ for a show I can watch at home for free?

 

The web is spoiling many arts events. Recently with Covid it's getting worse, well known museums opened doors on their exhibitions throw guided online tours. If this is going to be the norm then...

 

I think the insolvency was just a means for the company behind Cirque du Soleil to avoid potential repercussions for the Directors in having continued operating while clearly being insolvent. We will see if the shows will go on...

 

I think you are rubbing off an interesting reality.  There are many instances of seen it once, seen it all. 

 

I watched the Cirque de Solei twice, and this was enough.  I travel many times to the same city, but I visit the tourist traps only once. 

I haven't been in a movie theater since watching Avatar in 3D years ago.  Thanks to modern LCD TVs we have "home theaters".

 

Now locked down by the pandemic,  I'm watching again my collection of 500 DVDs I copied 15 years ago.

Plus I record many videos on the free "over the air" TV, some channels dedicated to play back old movies and series.

In addition, I find many good videos on Youtube  and Amazon Prime that can keep me entertained for decades.

 

I used to go to concerts by my favorite artists of classical music. Not anymore. 

I have found that one gets better sound and better views from the videos recorded in these concerts,

and Youtube is a gold mine for everything audio-visual.

 

It won't be long before virtual reality, augmented reality will give us even more spectacular experiences at home.

I look forward to it because in ten, twenty years I will be an old man who won't have to be deprived 

by less mobility,  but I will travel the world in the comfy Herman Miller chair in my office.

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8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

I used to go to concerts by my favorite artists of classical music. Not anymore. 

I have found that one gets better sound and better views from the videos recorded in these concerts,

and Youtube is a gold mine for everything audio-visual.

 

When you have good reproduction equipment (of the aural/visual variety I hasten to add 😮), based purely on what you see and hear it is almost certain to provide more ideal conditions than in a theatre or concert hall. During the lockdownI have thoroughly enjoyed the free streaming of operas, concerts and an occasional play. The problem for me is that each time I repeat a streamed work or watch a video is that I see and hear exactly the same performance.

 

The great thing about 'live' performances - whether they be music, the arts, entertainment, soccer, baseball, volleyball and the entire gamut of what can probably come under the banner of spectator events - is that every one is different. Go to watch Manchester United play Liverpool and you are excited to find out how the match will flow, who will score the goals and what the result will be. On video you know it all in advance. If I watch the DVD of Claudio Abbado conducting Bruckner's 7th Symphony with his stunning Lucerne Festival Orchestra, an ensemble which included some of the world's great instrumental soloists, I know what tempi he chooses, I know how phrases will be shaped, I know how he will control the climaxes (oops, again). It is a fabulous performance which I return to from time to time. But if given the chance of hearing it performed 'live' by, say, the Berlin Philharmonic with Petrenko conducting, I would be first in line for tickets. Whenever the world comes out of the covid19 restrictions, there will still be the same level of audiences and spectators for what each will regard as a special event.

 

Re Cirque du Soleil, I will take a guess that you saw two of their touring shows. If so, I will agree. I saw two in Hong Kong and would not have gone to a third. But they can in almost no way be compared to the permanent shows in specially designed and massive theatres in places like Las Vegas. "O" is vastly different from "Love" which is vastly different from "Ka" and so on. And nothing  on video can possible create the experience of seeing them 'live'.

 

 

Edited by InBangkok
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25 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

When you have good reproduction equipment (of the aural/visual variety I hasten to add 😮), based purely on what you see and hear it is almost certain to provide more ideal conditions than in a theatre or concert hall. During the lockdownI have thoroughly enjoyed the free streaming of operas, concerts and an occasional play. The problem for me is that each time I repeat a streamed work or watch a video is that I see and hear exactly the same performance.

 

The great thing about 'live' performances - whether they be music, the arts, entertainment, soccer, baseball, volleyball and the entire gamut of what can probably come under the banner of spectator events - is that every one is different. Go to watch Manchester United play Liverpool and you are excited to find out how the match will flow, who will score the goals and what the result will be. On video you know it all in advance. If I watch the DVD of Claudio Abbado conducting Bruckner's 7th Symphony with his stunning Lucerne Festival Orchestra, an ensemble which included some of the world's great instrumental soloists, I know what tempi he chooses, I know how phrases will be shaped, I know how he will control the climaxes (oops, again). It is a fabulous performance which I return to from time to time. But if given the chance of hearing it performed 'live' by, say, the Berlin Philharmonic with Petrenko conducting, I would be first in line for tickets. Whenever the world comes out of the covid19 restrictions, there will still be the same level of audiences and spectators for what each will regard as a special event.

 

Re Cirque du Soleil, I will take a guess that you saw two of their touring shows. If so, I will agree. I saw two in Hong Kong and would not have gone to a third. But they can in almost no way be compared to the permanent shows in specially designed and massive theatres in places like Las Vegas. "O" is vastly different from "Love" which is vastly different from "Ka" and so on. And nothing  on video can possible create the experience of seeing them 'live'.

 

 

 

You have a very wise principle of enjoyment:  variety and within this, the unexpected.  No two performances should be the same.

 

I have a more primitive approach to enjoyment that is, I also seek that what has given me enjoyment already.   I love the taste of chocolate ice cream of my favorite brand, and this taste has not changed ever.  And I don't want it to change.

 

In music,  I enjoy hearing the same recordings of Jascha Heifetz I heard as a 10 year old boy.  I know every nuance, every expression in his playing.  I don't care that it never changes, and it is good that it is there because I will never be able to hear him play live in a different way.   And you won't be able to hear Claudio Abbado's Bruckner with the orchestra of the Lucerne Festival play any different because he is not here anymore.   And when I play music on the piano,  I don't mind that the scores of the compositions by Chopin, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Beethoven have always the same notes and the same markings.  I even try to keep my fingering always the same.  My favorite books read always the same,  no change in the words. 

 

All this does not mean that I am closed to the new.  I keep discovering excellent new musicians among the thousands of good ones.  And I enjoy discovering new ways the old classics are interpreted.  But these "new" interpretations don't need to come to me in live concerts.  I hear "new" interpretations by Alfred Cortot, who has been dead for 58 years.  And his interpretations are not of the best sound quality .  This does not matter (to me).  I have a good stereo, but much music I listen from the sound bar attached to my monitor, or from the ear buds plugged into my MP3 player. Music is an abstract art,  easy to appreciate from less than perfect media.  The experience of a performance by the Cirque du Soleil is not so abstract, and here it makes a difference to see it in person.

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Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo
15 hours ago, Guest rubbing off said:

 

 

The second problem I see, Netflix, Youtube are diluting potential customers to make a visit. Why should I pay 250 $ for a show I can watch at home for free?

 

The web is spoiling many arts events. Recently with Covid it's getting worse, well known museums opened doors on their exhibitions throw guided online tours. If this is going to be the norm then...

 

 

Both sides of the coin. I watched Phantom Of The Opera twice during its 2007 run here. The 1st time I was on Circle 2 with a restricted view ticket. I was so wowed by it that I simply had to watch it again in the box seats on the stalls.

 

I watched one of those experimental productions on the net. The one hour performance consisted of a lone performer dressed as a spaceman walking around in slow motion like in space. The audience stood around and watched. Just crazy! Glad I did not pay for it. 

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11 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

If I watch the DVD of Claudio Abbado conducting Bruckner's 7th Symphony with his stunning Lucerne Festival Orchestra, an ensemble which included some of the world's great instrumental soloists, I know what tempi he chooses, I know how phrases will be shaped, I know how he will control the climaxes . It is a fabulous performance which I return to from time to time. But if given the chance of hearing it performed 'live' by, say, the Berlin Philharmonic with Petrenko conducting, I would be first in line for tickets. Whenever the world comes out of the covid19 restrictions, there will still be the same level of audiences and spectators for what each will regard as a special event.

 

 

I listened to this performance of Bruckner's 7th with Abbado conducting the Lucerne orchestra,  and I agree that it is an excellent interpretation.  I won't be afraid to listen to it many times, each time appreciating it a little more.  The variations in a new performance will be for me just an infinitesimal compared to listening to the composition itself.

 

Today my preferred orchestral music is Mendelssohn's Overture to A Midsummer Night's Dream. It is the most pure music.  That 17 year old kid composed it perfect.  After all these years, I might add a second more modern composition,  a musical continuum that lasts much longer,  like a Bruckner symphony.   And it will be a recorded music, like the CD you mentioned.

 

The covid-19 must be very damaging to the performance of a Bruckner symphony. All that hot air from the lungs of the Winds with mists of countless droplet particles blowing on the Strings , all that huge orchestra being packed together to fit on the stage without the 6 feet safe distancing.   I don't know if the damage would be even greater in a performance of a Wagner overture. :lol:

 

 

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Guest Uncle
16 hours ago, Guest Lady Gagag Weirdo said:

Both sides of the coin. I watched Phantom Of The Opera twice during its 2007 run here. The 1st time I was on Circle 2 with a restricted view ticket. I was so wowed by it that I simply had to watch it again in the box seats on the stalls.

 

I watched one of those experimental productions on the net. The one hour performance consisted of a lone performer dressed as a spaceman walking around in slow motion like in space. The audience stood around and watched. Just crazy! Glad I did not pay for it. 

 

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11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

The covid-19 must be very damaging to the performance of a Bruckner symphony. All that hot air from the lungs of the Winds with mists of countless droplet particles blowing on the Strings , all that huge orchestra being packed together to fit on the stage without the 6 feet safe distancing.   I don't know if the damage would be even greater in a performance of a Wagner overture. :lol:

 

Unlikely, but only because Wagner overtures are vastly shorter - Bruckner's 60 minutes against Tannhauser's 14 minutes or so which I think is the longest Wagner overture. But a 5-hour Wagner opera? The entire opera house would be infected.

 

Mendelssohn wrote some wonderful music and died much too young aged 38. Mind you, by the time they reached their 30s great composers were a vulnerable lot. Mozart died aged 35, Chopin at 39, Bizet (who wrote "Camen", one of the most popular of all operas) at 35 and the extraordinary Schubert at just 31. Some never made it. Pergolesi was only 26.

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

Mendelssohn wrote some wonderful music and died much too young aged 38. Mind you, by the time they reached their 30s great composers were a vulnerable lot. Mozart died aged 35, Chopin at 39, Bizet (who wrote "Camen", one of the most popular of all operas) at 35 and the extraordinary Schubert at just 31. Some never made it. Pergolesi was only 26.

 

 

These great composers were a priceless lot. I find it hard to choose among them.  Schubert at 31....  if he could have lasted just a little longer.. to complete his outpour of humanity in the unfinished symphony!   Mendelssohn is recognized as one of the most rare geniuses, his intellect extending far beyond composition.  We have the testimonials of the greats Goethe and Heine who judged the young kid far ahead in maturity to Mozart.   I think that Mendelssohn, Schubert, Mozart, Chopin, none is inferior to each other,  they are simply different.  Of course, the list is larger than these four.

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The world owes Mendelssohn an even greater debt. By the early 19th century the music of Bach was all but languishing in obscurity. It was Mendelssohn's conducting of the St. Matthew Passion in 1829 that led to a revival of interest in the works of the composer many regard as the greatest of all time. It was the first time the Passion had been heard in more than 80 years. It is now generally agreed to be one of the supreme masterpieces of classical music.

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10 hours ago, InBangkok said:

The world owes Mendelssohn an even greater debt. By the early 19th century the music of Bach was all but languishing in obscurity. It was Mendelssohn's conducting of the St. Matthew Passion in 1829 that led to a revival of interest in the works of the composer many regard as the greatest of all time. It was the first time the Passion had been heard in more than 80 years. It is now generally agreed to be one of the supreme masterpieces of classical music.

 

A genius had to promote another genius!  We discussed Bach in the thread "Instrumental music",  and I remember posting there the Final Chorus of the St. Matthew Passion.  This Chorus is the frosting on the cake of Music.  (my thoughts are about food because I haven't eaten my breakfast yet)   I don't know of any music that brings out so strong a feeling of religiousness.  I envy those people who got to sing in this Chorus.

If king George II who stood up during the chorus of Haendel's Messiah had attended Bach's St. Matthew Passion, he would have knelt down during its Final Chorus. 

.

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  • G_M changed the title to The amazing Cirque du Soleil declares Bankruptcy
On 7/4/2020 at 11:29 PM, InBangkok said:

Just a note to say I have moved an additional comment to Instrumental Music in the Members Forum. I think we have all, myself included, veered a bit far from a discussion on Cirque du Soleil!

 

We didn't veered off very far.  The Cirque is a collection of artists.  So are musicians.  The business of a circus is not so dissociated from the business of an opera house.   And today, circus arenas are as empty as concert halls.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Camilo
On 7/7/2020 at 9:29 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

We didn't veered off very far.  The Cirque is a collection of artists.  So are musicians.  The business of a circus is not so dissociated from the business of an opera house.   And today, circus arenas are as empty as concert halls.

Any chance they.will.come back? They were great actually

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On 4/24/2022 at 4:05 AM, Guest Camilo said:

Any chance they.will.come back? They were great actually

 

Cirque du Soleil has emerged from bankruptcy, and it is slowly resuming operations.  If it will be the same as before the pandemic this will be seen,  some shows are permanently cancelled,  but new ones will surely emerge.  And after all... the pandemic is not over yet.  So time will tell.

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Guest Popcorn Seller
On 4/24/2022 at 10:19 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Cirque du Soleil has emerged from bankruptcy, and it is slowly resuming operations.  If it will be the same as before the pandemic this will be seen.

Don't worry, you still have this forum, your second choice of Cirque Du Soleil. 

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On 4/24/2022 at 10:59 AM, Guest Popcorn Seller said:

Don't worry, you still have this forum, your second choice of Cirque Du Soleil. 

 

It is not the same.  Here I cannot SEE you cute guys.  I can only READ what you write,  which is not always cute.

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Guest Environmentalist
On 4/25/2022 at 12:08 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

It is not the same.  Here I cannot SEE you cute guys.  I can only READ what you write,  which is not always cute.

Uncute people received uncute reply.  Cute people received cute reply.  The world runs on sysmmetry, keeping everything balanced and safe otherwise there will be earthquake.

 

Cirque Du Soleil.  It needs more support and funding. The world should pay more attention to it rather than on Ukraine War. 

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On 4/24/2022 at 8:05 PM, Guest Environmentalist said:

 

Cirque Du Soleil.  It needs more support and funding. The world should pay more attention to it rather than on Ukraine War. 

 

 

Why should Cirque Du Soleil receive more attention than the war in Ukraine?  Are people so frivolous?

 

Years ago I went and saw a couple of this cirque's performances.  Since then I haven't miss them for even a microsecond.  I don't like when people risk their lives just for entertainment.

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Guest Well Guarded Self Interest
On 4/25/2022 at 11:00 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Why should Cirque Du Soleil receive more attention than the war in Ukraine?  Are people so frivolous?

 

Years ago I went and saw a couple of this cirque's performances.  Since then I haven't miss them for even a microsecond.  I don't like when people risk their lives just for entertainment.

While the world rage on,  it is cozy to be  inside a cooling theatre and immersed oneself in the performance of Cirque Du Soleil.  Very relaxing and peaceful.  Feel so happy.  

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On 4/25/2022 at 8:29 AM, Guest Well Guarded Self Interest said:

While the world rage on,  it is cozy to be  inside a cooling theatre and immersed oneself in the performance of Cirque Du Soleil.  Very relaxing and peaceful.  Feel so happy.  

 

While the world rage,  it is so cozy to be inside my comfortable home, surfing the Internet, preparing my meals, reading interesting books, watching favorite movies, listening to favorite music, playing the piano, doing favorite exercises, and occasionally chatting with family and friends.

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Guest Honest
On 4/25/2022 at 9:38 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

While the world rage,  it is so cozy to be inside my comfortable home, surfing the Internet

You are very unhappy and as rage as the Ukrainians. I understand. 

 

You need to watch more of Cirque du soleil on YouTube to help calm you down. 

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On 4/25/2022 at 9:03 AM, Guest Honest said:

You are very unhappy and as rage as the Ukrainians. I understand. 

 

You need to watch more of Cirque du soleil on YouTube to help calm you down. 

 

"Guest Honest"?   You are very poor at judging people and their character.  There are questions if this is honesty... or lack of it.

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