After a futile 4-month job hunt, I have decided to return to school at 42

[Guest Guest]

so handsome

 

https://www.todayonline.com/voices/jobseekers-diaries-after-futile-4-month-job-hunt-i-have-decided-return-school-42

 

Jobseekers’ Diaries: After a futile 4-month job hunt, I have decided to return to school at 42

 

 

For the better part of my career, I worked in the public and education sectors dealing with international markets.
 

In 18 years, I have had four employers.
 

I have done several stints in sales and marketing with European and American companies in Singapore and abroad.

 

I progressed from leading teams to leading a business while based in China, where I was responsible for the firm’s profitability.

 

I returned to Singapore at the end of 2016, after spending a decade abroad, for family reasons.

 

At the start of this year, I joined the Singapore branch of a smaller international company, along with several new hires. I was recruited to lead the team here and grow the Asia business.

 

The company had huge expansion plans in Asia and in the education space, and felt my experiences overseas and in the sector would be highly relevant in supporting these plans.

 

But owing to the Covid-19 pandemic, my employer let go of the entire team of newcomers by the end of May, after the business tanked in the space of a few weeks in March and April.

 

Hence, at 42, I joined scores of newly retrenched professionals, managers, executives and technicians.

 

It is now September, four months into my job search. I have applied for more than 80 openings and expanded my search to slightly more junior roles than those I held before.
 

Recruiters would tell me: “The world has changed, James. Are you okay with a 50 per cent pay cut?”

 

Recruiters for more senior roles would say that I am “a couple of years’ experience shy” of what their clients are looking for.

 

In terms of my job search, I went first to MyCareersFuture.sg, and focused on areas relating to learning and development, marketing and business development.

 

I took advice from friends and business associates, and tried to connect with my prospective employers directly via LinkedIn or get someone in my network to put in a good word.

 

It was heartening to know that many ex-bosses and colleagues were more than willing to speak to their hiring managers on my behalf.

 

Even so, I have yet to land a single interview in four months.

 

The lack of feedback can be maddening. Some nights, when the going got tough, I felt very sad, helpless and useless.

 

Wallowing in further self-pity, I even thought it was a bad decision to leave Singapore for 10 years because, hey, few employers valued that after I came home.

 

I have now decided to pursue a part-time Master of Business Administration degree at a business school here while I continue to look for a job.

 

To pay for the course and raise money for living expenses, I have to sell my flat. I am single and provide for my parents in their 80s.

 

I have had to move out of my comfort zone as I face the future, but at this point, I believe that furthering my studies will be a productive use of my time.

 

ABOUT THE WRITER:

Mr James Ching Chee Keng, 42, has held roles including regional manager for Southeast Asia, general manager for China and marketing director for Asia. His last role was regional general manager for Asia. He spent the first eight years of his working life in the public service doing international business development. He has an honours degree in business administration, majoring in marketing, from the National University of Singapore.

 

 

[Guest Wo de cai]

42 and single 

So my type!

[fab]

He should in Uptron ACL for a brighter future l

[Guest Guest]

so what if he goes back to school at 42 years old? Is he the first one in the last decade, after all the wayang shows that MOM put up to "upgrade" people since 2010 and even before?

 

The hard truth is: No matter how hard he train or upgrade himself, he is competing with anyone and everyone who can come  work here in Singapore. And that basically counts the entire 7 billion people on the planet. 

 

The faster he realize that, and the faster he knows that is the reason why his "friends" were unable to secure him even an interview, despite having direct connections to the hiring company, the better he will do good. 

 

I wish him luck.

[lonelyglobe]

He should talk to one of those career consultant who always boast how many job match they have done. 

 

Not sure if is a good investment for a MBA,  how many company really require a MBA candidate and are they willing to pay the difference?

 

MBA is more for self development and networking as most of them taking have achieved a certain status in life. 

 

Anything that got to do with technology will probably be a better bet as SG is moving towards a techno-city. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by lonelyglobe

[Guest guest]

This guy at 42 already a regional general manager, have honours degree in business administration from NUS, i think his salary confirmed 5 figures, and yet how come he still needs to sell off his flat to raise money for living expenses? He does not save up all these years? Anyway, this guy not bad looking, from local uni and was a GM and yet still single past 40s? Easy to get suspicious on his sexuality. Haha. Such a good catch and background and yet no married?!

[mate69]

Sssshhhhhh

[Guest guest]

I find this guy face looks familiar, did he appeared on tv in some show before?

[Guest Cheap good, smart no good]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I have now decided to pursue a part-time Master of Business Administration degree at a business school here while I continue to look for a job.

To pay for the course and raise money for living expenses, I have to sell my flat. I am single and provide for my parents in their 80s.

 

 

At 42, he still have not learned the cruelty of the Singapore market and this society.  He is going to waste money on pursuing his MBA when the employer, in fact, will not consider that as an important factor to giving him the job. To make matter worse, there is no true labour union, Singapore will continue to bring influx of foreigners with cheap qualifications.  

 

Furthermore, selling flat (if he has fully paid his mortgage), is the last resort anyone should avoid, unless he plan to stay with his parents and inherit their flats.  Besides, why didn't he considering renting  out his flat instead of selling it to fund his expenses?  I sense his desperation to prove his worth, by going high in his study and tried to prove to the world at large when actually, behind the scene, employers wanted you cheap.  Why not go cheap instead of aiming high. I mean he is already 42yo and not 22. 

 

I still don't get it, why people are still so immatured in their thinking.  Have not seen enough in Singapore?  Oh, wait!!! He lived overseas most of the time.  That explains it.

[Guest Mary]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

so handsome

 

https://www.todayonline.com/voices/jobseekers-diaries-after-futile-4-month-job-hunt-i-have-decided-return-school-42

 

Jobseekers’ Diaries: After a futile 4-month job hunt, I have decided to return to school at 42

 

 

For the better part of my career, I worked in the public and education sectors dealing with international markets.
 

In 18 years, I have had four employers.
 

I have done several stints in sales and marketing with European and American companies in Singapore and abroad.

 

I progressed from leading teams to leading a business while based in China, where I was responsible for the firm’s profitability.

 

I returned to Singapore at the end of 2016, after spending a decade abroad, for family reasons.

 

At the start of this year, I joined the Singapore branch of a smaller international company, along with several new hires. I was recruited to lead the team here and grow the Asia business.

 

The company had huge expansion plans in Asia and in the education space, and felt my experiences overseas and in the sector would be highly relevant in supporting these plans.

 

But owing to the Covid-19 pandemic, my employer let go of the entire team of newcomers by the end of May, after the business tanked in the space of a few weeks in March and April.

 

Hence, at 42, I joined scores of newly retrenched professionals, managers, executives and technicians.

 

It is now September, four months into my job search. I have applied for more than 80 openings and expanded my search to slightly more junior roles than those I held before.
 

Recruiters would tell me: “The world has changed, James. Are you okay with a 50 per cent pay cut?”

 

Recruiters for more senior roles would say that I am “a couple of years’ experience shy” of what their clients are looking for.

 

In terms of my job search, I went first to MyCareersFuture.sg, and focused on areas relating to learning and development, marketing and business development.

 

I took advice from friends and business associates, and tried to connect with my prospective employers directly via LinkedIn or get someone in my network to put in a good word.

 

It was heartening to know that many ex-bosses and colleagues were more than willing to speak to their hiring managers on my behalf.

 

Even so, I have yet to land a single interview in four months.

 

The lack of feedback can be maddening. Some nights, when the going got tough, I felt very sad, helpless and useless.

 

Wallowing in further self-pity, I even thought it was a bad decision to leave Singapore for 10 years because, hey, few employers valued that after I came home.

 

I have now decided to pursue a part-time Master of Business Administration degree at a business school here while I continue to look for a job.

 

To pay for the course and raise money for living expenses, I have to sell my flat. I am single and provide for my parents in their 80s.

 

I have had to move out of my comfort zone as I face the future, but at this point, I believe that furthering my studies will be a productive use of my time.

 

ABOUT THE WRITER:

Mr James Ching Chee Keng, 42, has held roles including regional manager for Southeast Asia, general manager for China and marketing director for Asia. His last role was regional general manager for Asia. He spent the first eight years of his working life in the public service doing international business development. He has an honours degree in business administration, majoring in marketing, from the National University of Singapore.

 

 

What is the purpose of this posting ?? 

1.  Don't worked in overseas for too long. Come back no value 
2. NUS Degree dont mean much 
3. At 42 I take MBA , very proud of 
4.  MBA very expensive must sell flat to afford it 
5. **** Knowing BW , the purpose mostly is to have this pic and then start to either bitch or drool abt it 

Still what wonder what is the purpose of such post ........ 

[Guest Satanic Dancer]

Just now, Guest Mary said:

What is the purpose of this posting ?? 

1.  Don't worked in overseas for too long. Come back no value 
2. NUS Degree dont mean much 
3. At 42 I take MBA , very proud of 
4.  MBA very expensive must sell flat to afford it 
5. **** Knowing BW , the purpose mostly is to have this pic and then start to either bitch or drool abt it 

Still what wonder what is the purpose of such post ........ 

He appears in MSM for the purpose of advertising himself so that he can be noticed by any employers out there.  It seems he has lost all manners of finding job thru his own friends and jobs bank.   Very brave of him.

[Guest The Question]

Who did he vote for?

[Guest CCK]

When he finally gets his MBA, the interviewer will tell him: Oh James, you’re over qualified for this vacancy. 
 

This is what happened to me years ago.  😤😡

[Guest Winner]

Just now, Guest CCK said:

When he finally gets his MBA, the interviewer will tell him: Oh James, you’re over qualified for this vacancy. 
 

This is what happened to me years ago.  😤😡

He will be fighting against other fake MBA from CECA.  The latter is cheaper to hire.  Who will win in Singapore?

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, Guest guest said:

This guy at 42 already a regional general manager, have honours degree in business administration from NUS, i think his salary confirmed 5 figures, and yet how come he still needs to sell off his flat to raise money for living expenses? He does not save up all these years? Anyway, this guy not bad looking, from local uni and was a GM and yet still single past 40s? Easy to get suspicious on his sexuality. Haha. Such a good catch and background and yet no married?!

Sometimes ‘single’ can mean divorced also.

But in his case, seems more like gay to me. 
Even so, ‘single’ in public doesnt mean he is not attached with a partner if he is really gay.

[Guest guest]

1 hour ago, Guest Cheap good, smart no good said:

At 42, he still have not learned the cruelty of the Singapore market and this society.  He is going to waste money on pursuing his MBA when the employer, in fact, will not consider that as an important factor to giving him the job. To make matter worse, there is no true labour union, Singapore will continue to bring influx of foreigners with cheap qualifications.  

 

Furthermore, selling flat (if he has fully paid his mortgage), is the last resort anyone should avoid, unless he plan to stay with his parents and inherit their flats.  Besides, why didn't he considering renting  out his flat instead of selling it to fund his expenses?  I sense his desperation to prove his worth, by going high in his study and tried to prove to the world at large when actually, behind the scene, employers wanted you cheap.  Why not go cheap instead of aiming high. I mean he is already 42yo and not 22. 

 

I still don't get it, why people are still so immatured in their thinking.  Have not seen enough in Singapore?  Oh, wait!!! He lived overseas most of the time.  That explains it.

True, no use in getting a MBA, i find nowadays many employers do not look at high paper qualification esp MBA. He already have not a bad qualification from NUS. Unless he wants to climb up the corporate ladder very high, and so he finds pursuing a MBA will help him? As there are still some employers looking for such group of people with MBA or higher paper qualification?

 

I think he must be high spender despite his high position over the years? Bank account not much cash? If not he should have some saving on hand and no need to sell flat.

[Guest guest]

28 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Sometimes ‘single’ can mean divorced also.

But in his case, seems more like gay to me. 
Even so, ‘single’ in public doesnt mean he is not attached with a partner if he is really gay.

Guys at this age who is single indeed can meant 2 things, either divorced or gay. Hardly can find a guy who is really straight and yet still single at this age?! Haha. Even a guy who is ugly or earning is not high also can and would get married.

[Guest media purpose]

Probably the media is using his story to assist in reducing the number of job seekers.

If you do any degree, at least you don't count as jobless or job seekers and you are off from the job chase.

 

Who would help this?

Plus it assists the economy, because it results in revenue for the institutions offering all these degrees/ diplomas etc etc.

 

The streamlined media is always used to send a certain message or assist in certain results.

 

The more people out of the statistics, the better....

 

 

Just learn to think smarter!

[Guest my comments]

I think to throw the hat on interviews already after 4 months is much too early.

 

We are not in normal circumstances. You might need longer to find a job in current situation.

 

What companies are really increasing their work force?

 

I think the 42 year old guy should be a bit more patient and not give up so early.

 

Some say the recovery may take up to 2 years.

 

And maybe it is better to land a job with lesser pay. If the market doesn't give much more. Once the economy is back on track, then you just apply for a new better paid job.

 

In his case I would seriously advise against selling the flat just to pay a MBA degree.

 

In my personal view, you can even do a MBA degree while full time working.

 

And I find his style of judging down the international experience very bad and only showing he is not fully convinced of his own career path. How can you then convince others and Employers?

 

Most more internationalised companies would prefer to have someone who has seen the world from a different angle and took the challenge to work overseas. At least those companies looking into internationalisation.

 

Should have decreased his salary expectations to land a job and move on when the situation is better.

 

At the 50% pay cut offer I had rebutted. "Why not close it at 75%?" I m sure one employer might have agreed or at least increase the 50% to 60% or slightly more.

[Guest Truth]

20 minutes ago, Guest my comments said:

At the 50% pay cut offer I had rebutted. "Why not close it at 75%?" I m sure one employer might have agreed or at least increase the 50% to 60% or slightly more.

 

Assuming he is drawing a 5-digit salary previously, as 50% pay cut should be adequate to tide over the pandemic (4-5K per month), unless he has a huge financial commitment.

[Guest Troubled]

3 hours ago, Guest CCK said:

When he finally gets his MBA, the interviewer will tell him: Oh James, you’re over qualified for this vacancy. 
 

This is what happened to me years ago.  😤😡

You are either over qualified or under qualified. Those are well recited mantra to "politely" reject the applicants without the boss getting into trouble with the law, not that there is any well-meaning law to protect the workers.

[Guest Wake Up!]

2 hours ago, Guest my comments said:

I And maybe it is better to land a job with lesser pay.

 

At the 50% pay cut offer I had rebutted. "Why not close it at 75%?" I m sure one employer might have agreed or at least increase the 50% to 60% or slightly more.

One you offered to sell down yourself and taken lower salary by 50% pay cut, it is the beginning to the end of your career.  Your next career stage will not be easily restored back to your earliest job salary. Employers will keep insisting your last drawn as a benchmark for negotiation. 

 

Let's say your previous pay is 10,000.  Out of desperation you accepted $5,000 (50% pay cut).  After completing your MBA, your negotation power starts from base salary of $5,000, not $10,000.   Josephine Teo from MOM told the parliamentarian that it is illegal to use that tactic against the workers.  She failed to see the reality job seekers faces.   You are likely to encounter some cheapskate interviewers, who didn't like you because you are much older now (assuming 5 years later after completing your MBA and you became 47yo), they are likely to negotiate your salary downward, and give you the look that it is "their market" and they prefer cheap fresh graduates aka youngsters. Otherwise, cheap foreign labours with MBA are also easily available and hungry for any salary amount.. Thus you either take the cheap or leave it.  The vicious cycles is what caused Singapore labour forces to spiral downwards, and often mistaken as no more local talent in this Country.  The government will blame you for not "upskilling, reskilling and upgrading" and then offered you to take up security guards or joined the bus driver.  By then, you wondered, what has happened to your dream?

 

Anyway, that guy is abolutely gay.  My gaydar knows best.

[mith]

i retired at 42. now 50... never, even once, look back into going back to the working world. hopefully will never have to.

Edited September 15, 2020 by mith

[Guest Guest]

23 minutes ago, mith said:

i retired at 42. now 50... never, even once, look back into going back to the working world. hopefully will never have to.

Wow what were you doing?
How you survive then?
Share some tips pls!

[Guest my comments]

2 hours ago, Guest Wake Up! said:

One you offered to sell down yourself and taken lower salary by 50% pay cut, it is the beginning to the end of your career.  Your next career stage will not be easily restored back to your earliest job salary. Employers will keep insisting your last drawn as a benchmark for negotiation. 

 

Let's say your previous pay is 10,000.  Out of desperation you accepted $5,000 (50% pay cut).  After completing your MBA, your negotation power starts from base salary of $5,000, not $10,000.   Josephine Teo from MOM told the parliamentarian that it is illegal to use that tactic against the workers.  She failed to see the reality job seekers faces.   You are likely to encounter some cheapskate interviewers, who didn't like you because you are much older now (assuming 5 years later after completing your MBA and you became 47yo), they are likely to negotiate your salary downward, and give you the look that it is "their market" and they prefer cheap fresh graduates aka youngsters. Otherwise, cheap foreign labours with MBA are also easily available and hungry for any salary amount.. Thus you either take the cheap or leave it.  The vicious cycles is what caused Singapore labour forces to spiral downwards, and often mistaken as no more local talent in this Country.  The government will blame you for not "upskilling, reskilling and upgrading" and then offered you to take up security guards or joined the bus driver.  By then, you wondered, what has happened to your dream?

 

Anyway, that guy is abolutely gay.  My gaydar knows best.

This is the same silly mindset of some condo property owners in Singapore who don't rent out their flat if they don't find a tenant paying XYZ amount of rental. And then the flat has no tenant for 1 1/2 years...

 

Someone else will just take the job.

 

For everyone it looks better to be in the workforce instead of having to respond why there is a gap in your CV.

 

At next opportunity you just apply for better paying jobs.

 

Since 2009 most salaries had increased much more than productivity in Singapore. 

 

That "downward" spiralling doesn't exist for 95% of all locals.

The 5 % are jobs that disappeared due to automation or phasing out of certain jobs in the lower job categories.

 

At the moment there is a downsizing due to closures and loss of business resulting from the covid crisis. For sure most sectors will come back in 6 to 12 months when demand is back on track.

 

In my personal view the gov should implement an unemployment insurance of 2 - 3 % per month to bridge for future downturns. The road of the future economy might get bumpier the coming years and Singapore shouldn't add more debt into future (declining) population/generations.

 

Second, the gov has to review this "help for self-help" concept and implement a serious skills upgrading scheme for those who will be out of jobs due to automation, AI , shifting factories etc etc. These generations must quickly be trained to work in new job areas.

 

Most schemes are meant to sound nice but totally inefficient and not achieving the goal of keeping workers in employment and contributing in required job areas. Second, the 1000 of different schemes are too confusing and if workers in the end need to fork out parts of their own money, what's the purpose? 

 

The last 10 years Singapore has implemented plenty of nicely sounding programs but with no verifiable efficacy.

 

The gov was too much relying on the self running economy...

But this is changing in a more competitive environment.

 

To me the music still sounds the same as in 2011...

[Guest guest]

such good complexion and healthy skin, indeed a single man not bogged down by children and naggy wife

 

he can jolly fit in with the crowd at KB on Aniki Nite 

[Guest Guest]

I wonder what Josephine will say....is she going to cry again?

[Guest Guest]

https://youtu.be/myNRStIto1Q

[Guest Guest]

 

 

[mrjuicetiger]

Take the article too with a pinch of salt. 
Was invited to submit an article to ST by my journalist friend, during the 08 recession.  Ended up it was edited to become very sensationalized. Sigh. 
 

Anyway, I do wish him well in his future endeavors.  

[Guest Guest]

4 months is a short period, especially in this epidemic. Imagine he waits awhile longer and lands a job in the 5th or 6th month. 
 

And taking a MBA or Masters is really not necessary unless your career path calls for it (certain professional roles or need Masters for promotion). MBA is just a costly way to expand your network and gain all the connections instead of really learning anything useful. In his case, it seems like his network is already not bad. The most silly thing is sell off his flat to pay for the school fees. 

[Guest guest]

8 hours ago, Guest Wake Up! said:

One you offered to sell down yourself and taken lower salary by 50% pay cut, it is the beginning to the end of your career.  Your next career stage will not be easily restored back to your earliest job salary. Employers will keep insisting your last drawn as a benchmark for negotiation. 

 

Let's say your previous pay is 10,000.  Out of desperation you accepted $5,000 (50% pay cut).  After completing your MBA, your negotation power starts from base salary of $5,000, not $10,000.   Josephine Teo from MOM told the parliamentarian that it is illegal to use that tactic against the workers.  She failed to see the reality job seekers faces.   You are likely to encounter some cheapskate interviewers, who didn't like you because you are much older now (assuming 5 years later after completing your MBA and you became 47yo), they are likely to negotiate your salary downward, and give you the look that it is "their market" and they prefer cheap fresh graduates aka youngsters. Otherwise, cheap foreign labours with MBA are also easily available and hungry for any salary amount.. Thus you either take the cheap or leave it.  The vicious cycles is what caused Singapore labour forces to spiral downwards, and often mistaken as no more local talent in this Country.  The government will blame you for not "upskilling, reskilling and upgrading" and then offered you to take up security guards or joined the bus driver.  By then, you wondered, what has happened to your dream?

 

Anyway, that guy is abolutely gay.  My gaydar knows best.

Very true, employers always and only base on your last drawn salary to pay you. So once your salary got cut, you would need to start all over again to regain back to high salary. But for this guy who is already in his 40s, not easy to get high salary since employer would say you are ''too old'' liao, even you have an impressive qualification. Unless you manage to find a start-up company who require experience and expertise group of people to employ as senior management to help set-up a company.

[Guest Peaceful years]

9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

4 months is a short period, especially in this epidemic. Imagine he waits awhile longer and lands a job in the 5th or 6th month. 
 

I took 4 years and during which, I felt very peaceful.  Why was that so?

[Guest Guest don’t be silly]

I think he’s silly as he’s 42 and not 22. 

I took my MBA ten years ago and no difference. But I felt happy to get the MBA. so getting MBA won’t make a difference in the eyes of the employers. It’s for your own knowledge not for getting jobs. I look through candidates CV and don’t give a damn to their MBA. Silly. 
 

selling flat to finance your mba is another silly thing. I already got few hundred k in my bank account even though it’s pandemic now and it’s still growing. I am just waiting to enter the share market to get a good bargain. No hurry as I can wait. 

 

i do agree that it may be a good idea to get a job with pay cut and do agree that it will be difficult to negotiate for a better pay package after the pandemic. But you must understand that the new norm is more challenging moving forward. And five years later, you are going to be 47. No employers will employ someone who is older or as old as him. Younger fresher meat are more popular and cheaper in a competitive job market. And they are easier to manage.

we rejected a few candidates whom are 40 plus because they are too cocky and still living in their own world. 
 

Conclusion is he’s silly and still can’t see the real world yet. It’s ok to be ignorant at his age but it’s not ok to flaunt your ignorance in front of your potential employers and other people who already see the reality. Wake up his idea. Hope it’s his first and last whining and move on. Sorry to be so blunt. 

[Guest I have!!!]

33 minutes ago, Guest Guest don’t be silly said:

Conclusion is he’s silly and still can’t see the real world yet. It’s ok to be ignorant at his age but it’s not ok to flaunt your ignorance in front of your potential employers and other people who already see the reality. Wake up his idea. Hope it’s his first and last whining and move on. Sorry to be so blunt. 

I suspect he is a civil servants. Who on earth will think like he did?  Once you got your MBA, your job responsibilities will increase and that doesn't mean your pay will increase too. Double-stress.  Boss tend to give lighter responsibility to people with lesser qualification and some people don't need qualifications to earn more.   If you old already, and still stressful,  not good for your health.  There is not enough job for MBA, so the 42yo guy will have to compete with diploma holders for a job. But then, the employers will say he is over-qualified and give diploma holder priority in shortlisting.   In this day and age, it is not about book smart but street smart which I have!!!

[fab]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:36 PM, fab said:

He should enroll to Uptron ACL for a brighter future l

 

[Guest Guest don’t be silly]

6 minutes ago, fab said:

 

Now the in thing is IT, AI and tech savvy things. MBA is popular ten years ago and now he’s chasing ten years ago fashion. Hello wake up his idea. I rather he spends his money wisely and study tech savvy things than to throw money into the drain. Everyone is running forward only he’s running opposite direction. 

[fab]

A business master degree is only usefulin the academic industry.  Pte sector hardly gives a damn to a master. Experience and ability matter more.

 

Technical master degrees is more useful when it comes job promotions. 

[Guest Guest]

17 hours ago, Guest Wake Up! said:

One you offered to sell down yourself and taken lower salary by 50% pay cut, it is the beginning to the end of your career.  Your next career stage will not be easily restored back to your earliest job salary. Employers will keep insisting your last drawn as a benchmark for negotiation. 

 

Let's say your previous pay is 10,000.  Out of desperation you accepted $5,000 (50% pay cut).  After completing your MBA, your negotation power starts from base salary of $5,000, not $10,000.   Josephine Teo from MOM told the parliamentarian that it is illegal to use that tactic against the workers.  She failed to see the reality job seekers faces.   You are likely to encounter some cheapskate interviewers, who didn't like you because you are much older now (assuming 5 years later after completing your MBA and you became 47yo), they are likely to negotiate your salary downward, and give you the look that it is "their market" and they prefer cheap fresh graduates aka youngsters. Otherwise, cheap foreign labours with MBA are also easily available and hungry for any salary amount.. Thus you either take the cheap or leave it.  The vicious cycles is what caused Singapore labour forces to spiral downwards, and often mistaken as no more local talent in this Country.  The government will blame you for not "upskilling, reskilling and upgrading" and then offered you to take up security guards or joined the bus driver.  By then, you wondered, what has happened to your dream?

 

This is very true.

Once you go low, the next job will be based on last drawn.

That's the reality....they will not offer you a huge jump in salary based on your last drawn.

Maybe a few rare ones might but majority will not.

Sad truth.

[Guest Guest]

23 hours ago, Guest guest said:

This guy at 42 already a regional general manager, have honours degree in business administration from NUS, i think his salary confirmed 5 figures, and yet how come he still needs to sell off his flat to raise money for living expenses? He does not save up all these years? Anyway, this guy not bad looking, from local uni and was a GM and yet still single past 40s? Easy to get suspicious on his sexuality. Haha. Such a good catch and background and yet no married?!

No saving could be due to him buying the flat in the first place?

Plus he did mention that he came back due to family...could be his aging parents and having medical bills to pay.

Medical not cheap in Singapore.

If all the cash used up and he want to study MBA, no choice to sell flat BUT I agreed that selling flat and studying MBA now is a bad choice.

4 months is still not long enough given the pandemic now...should have hold on longer..at least 6 months to a year.

[mate69]

4 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

This is very true.

Once you go low, the next job will be based on last drawn.

That's the reality....they will not offer you a huge jump in salary based on your last drawn.

Maybe a few rare ones might but majority will not.

Sad truth.

 

Yes terribly sad. The cold hard sad truth.

[qsefthu78]

Having been in education in both  PET and CET, I've seen all the fancy schemes singing the same tunes:

- upskill

- specialise 

- skill mastery

- lifelong learning

 

No matter how much you do all the above, if there is no demand or supply of jobs in your industry, especially if it's a sunset industry, job search will remain tough. The best way is to switch to a more booming industry, but that remains the toughest change. Tell the 40s and 50s to re-skill... how many would be willing to risk and start all over again? How many companies are willing to accept middle aged new career switches?

 

Once you have achieved that much at a high level in your career and suddenly lose your job in bad times, you will have to reset your expectations and start all over. Yes, you lose everything but you get to have a fresh start. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by qsefthu78

[fab]

48 minutes ago, fab said:

A business master degree is only usefulin the academic industry.  Pte sector hardly gives a damn to a master. Experience and ability matter more.

 

Technical master degrees is more useful when it comes to  job promotions. 

 

[Guest my comments]

9 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Very true, employers always and only base on your last drawn salary to pay you. So once your salary got cut, you would need to start all over again to regain back to high salary. But for this guy who is already in his 40s, not easy to get high salary since employer would say you are ''too old'' liao, even you have an impressive qualification. Unless you manage to find a start-up company who require experience and expertise group of people to employ as senior management to help set-up a company.

 

Employers cannot insist job seekers declare last-drawn pay, 'practical approach' should be taken: Josephine Teo

04 Jun 2020

SINGAPORE: There are no rules stating that job seekers must declare their last-drawn salaries, and employers cannot insist they do so, said Minister for Manpower Josephine Teo in Parliament on Thursday (Jun 4).    

Instead, a “practical approach” should be taken on whether employers are allowed to ask for such information, she said, as a candidate's last-drawn salary can help employers gauge his or her seniority or to make an appropriate job offer. 

 

[Guest my comments]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest don’t be silly said:

I think he’s silly as he’s 42 and not 22. 

I took my MBA ten years ago and no difference. But I felt happy to get the MBA. so getting MBA won’t make a difference in the eyes of the employers. It’s for your own knowledge not for getting jobs. I look through candidates CV and don’t give a damn to their MBA. Silly. 
 

selling flat to finance your mba is another silly thing. I already got few hundred k in my bank account even though it’s pandemic now and it’s still growing. I am just waiting to enter the share market to get a good bargain. No hurry as I can wait. 

 

i do agree that it may be a good idea to get a job with pay cut and do agree that it will be difficult to negotiate for a better pay package after the pandemic. But you must understand that the new norm is more challenging moving forward. And five years later, you are going to be 47. No employers will employ someone who is older or as old as him. Younger fresher meat are more popular and cheaper in a competitive job market. And they are easier to manage.

we rejected a few candidates whom are 40 plus because they are too cocky and still living in their own world. 
 

Conclusion is he’s silly and still can’t see the real world yet. It’s ok to be ignorant at his age but it’s not ok to flaunt your ignorance in front of your potential employers and other people who already see the reality. Wake up his idea. Hope it’s his first and last whining and move on. Sorry to be so blunt. 

 

All depends. If you work in the consultancy business, the MBA would be a requirement. Who in that industry would employ someone without any advanced academic background. Same goes if you go into an internal business review line in any company like Project Director (to gauge changes to the company). Many companies now hire in-house Managers with a certain type of experience to take scrutiny on internal procedures. Most would take someone from outside who can input experience. It's meant for an internal "clean up" and creating more efficiency within the company.

Once you hire external consultants for such reviews, you might not recognise your own company any longer.

 

Third, it always looks good for senior managers near to the CEO or CEO role to bring a MBA.

 

Unless you intend to stay at the mid management level or just 2 steps below the CEO function, then you don't necessarily need an MBA.

 

3 hours ago, Guest Guest don’t be silly said:

i do agree that it may be a good idea to get a job with pay cut and do agree that it will be difficult to negotiate for a better pay package after the pandemic. But you must understand that the new norm is more challenging moving forward. And five years later, you are going to be 47. No employers will employ someone who is older or as old as him. Younger fresher meat are more popular and cheaper in a competitive job market. And they are easier to manage.

we rejected a few candidates whom are 40 plus because they are too cocky and still living in their own world. 
 

 

Aren't locals best known for "job hopping" ?

Even those last drawn salary thing. Has everyone been honest to state the amount of salary he received at the last job?

There are market factors and competition. In some areas it is difficult for companies to set salaries below certain "packages" being offered by competitors.

Nowadays for Singapore you can easily check for any industry and type of job what is the market rate on salaries.

Once the economy is back on track, just move on and gain for the usual salary. That might be even in just 1 to 1 1/2  years. if the HR of your potential new Employer asks you why you left so fast at your previous company, my response would be: "I did not find the culture at this company conducive". Easy as that.

 

But it still seems more advisable to me to stay afloat with a pay cut then to drown in a pool of nothing.

 

[Guest imho]

To inject some optimism to this thread, I think James already has rather impressive credentials and all he needs now is just the right opportunity to swing by.

 

Having said that, one needs to seriously consider the post-Covid 19 reality of which James had no doubt already suffered its impact. Doing an MBA to expand one's network and address knowledge gaps might seem logical in following his career trajectory, and suggests a determination not to make a career switch into "in-demand" areas e.g. IT. So if I were him, I would make sure to reap the most value from this costly investment, of which securing an income stream is key.

 

Best luck, buddy!

[Guest Guest don’t by silly]

8 minutes ago, Guest my comments said:

 

All depends. If you work in the consultancy business, the MBA would be a requirement. Who in that industry would employ someone without any advanced academic background. Same goes if you go into an internal business review line in any company like Project Director (to gauge changes to the company). Many companies now hire in-house Managers with a certain type of experience to take scrutiny on internal procedures. Most would take someone from outside who can input experience. It's meant for an internal "clean up" and creating more efficiency within the company.

Once you hire external consultants for such reviews, you might not recognise your own company any longer.

 

Third, it always looks good for senior managers near to the CEO or CEO role to bring a MBA.

 

Unless you intend to stay at the mid management level or just 2 steps below the CEO function, then you don't necessarily need an MBA.

 

 

Aren't locals best known for "job hopping" ?

Even those last drawn salary thing. Has everyone been honest to state the amount of salary he received at the last job?

There are market factors and competition. In some areas it is difficult for companies to set salaries below certain "packages" being offered by competitors.

Nowadays for Singapore you can easily check for any industry and type of job what is the market rate on salaries.

Once the economy is back on track, just move on and gain for the usual salary. That might be even in just 1 to 1 1/2  years. if the HR of your potential new Employer asks you why you left so fast at your previous company, my response would be: "I did not find the culture at this company conducive". Easy as that.

 

But it still seems more advisable to me to stay afloat with a pay cut then to drown in a pool of nothing.

 

We will ask for last drawn pay slip to verify his stated pay amount. Can’t lie. It’s integrity issue. 
 

second, mba is good to have but not a must have thing now.

 

third, one important thing more important to have on TOP of mba is connection or background or mountain or network. If you have none of it, then you have difficulties to find a good job. Even with mba but without connection, god also find it hard to help you. I remembered few years back, there’s a channel news Asia documentary whereby a man with mba but end up clearing plates in food court. Nothing wrong but I Just telling you the hard truth.

[singalion]

1 hour ago, qsefthu78 said:

Having been in education in both  PET and CET, I've seen all the fancy schemes singing the same tunes:

- upskill

- specialise 

- skill mastery

- lifelong learning

 

No matter how much you do all the above, if there is no demand or supply of jobs in your industry, especially if it's a sunset industry, job search will remain tough. The best way is to switch to a more booming industry, but that remains the toughest change. Tell the 40s and 50s to re-skill... how many would be willing to risk and start all over again? How many companies are willing to accept middle aged new career switches?

 

Once you have achieved that much at a high level in your career and suddenly lose your job in bad times, you will have to reset your expectations and start all over. Yes, you lose everything but you get to have a fresh start. 

 

Don't be so negative. The proper upskilling is good. But you must be motivated. If you can't see blood then don't do a Dr.

If computers and all that stuff are an annoyance to you , then don't go into that area.

 

But just to rebut on your post. Take a look at Germany, aging population, because of language requirements not getting sufficient employees from overseas.

 

The same will happen to Singapore soon. The Employers won't have any choice but to hire "older" or greying work force to do the jobs.

 

If you are smart, you switch to one of the areas in demand.

Already many schools offer degrees in these areas, even here in Singapore.

 

If you have an automation project and need someone to handle. Wouldn't you hire the 45y guy or even 55y guy who was trained in exactly the area you require or would you hire someone from school who never experiences work life? The future of your company relies on him.

I bet the company will go for the older one (who even displayed a motivation to take up some new and challenging).

 

Just stop being so negative.

 

The problem is many job seekers think they can can go on in the "sunset" jobs and oppose to making a career switch.

I m sure some halfway computer savvy can go into such areas. It is a matter of motivation.

 

A friend of mine went from Florist job into app design and cloud. After working for a company, he opened his own set up and is very successful. Now, he even faces a shortage of local experts in that area to grow his set up.

 

I personally think the Singaporean government should look much more into supporting such mid term career switches in these upcoming industries. Do a loan scheme, take away financial burdens and set a late repayment. I don't think the local universities will create sufficient experts in these areas for the future.

 

[Guest my comment]

10 minutes ago, Guest Guest don’t by silly said:

We will ask for last drawn pay slip to verify his stated pay amount. Can’t lie. It’s integrity issue. 
 

second, mba is good to have but not a must have thing now.

 

third, one important thing more important to have on TOP of mba is connection or background or mountain or network. If you have none of it, then you have difficulties to find a good job. Even with mba but without connection, god also find it hard to help you. I remembered few years back, there’s a channel news Asia documentary whereby a man with mba but end up clearing plates in food court. Nothing wrong but I Just telling you the hard truth.

 

There is no obligation to present any past pay slips to a new Employer. Just decline the request. The interviewer would show to you his/her bank statements either or?

 

There are Filipinos university graduates who clean cars in Singapore or do other manual jobs in Singapore.

We don't know the story of the guy with the MBA... he might have had a mental issue or something else.

Recently there was this local uni graduate who preferred opening a coffee shop at Tiong Bahru. I mean you get a lot... But don't take this as a rule.

It is always good to do something you want to do. Like people who went into the accounting job because there was demand, but after 3 years cant see any number any more.

You must always ask yourself, would you enjoy doing this.

If you start to think so negative from start....

 

do we all know our job is still required in 10 years?

Learn to handle the challenges and be ready for change.

[Guest Guest]

53 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Don't be so negative. The proper upskilling is good. But you must be motivated. If you can't see blood then don't do a Dr.

If computers and all that stuff are an annoyance to you , then don't go into that area.

 

But just to rebut on your post. Take a look at Germany, aging population, because of language requirements not getting sufficient employees from overseas.

 

The same will happen to Singapore soon. The Employers won't have any choice but to hire "older" or greying work force to do the jobs.

 

If you are smart, you switch to one of the areas in demand.

Already many schools offer degrees in these areas, even here in Singapore.

 

If you have an automation project and need someone to handle. Wouldn't you hire the 45y guy or even 55y guy who was trained in exactly the area you require or would you hire someone from school who never experiences work life? The future of your company relies on him.

I bet the company will go for the older one (who even displayed a motivation to take up some new and challenging).

 

Just stop being so negative.

 

The problem is many job seekers think they can can go on in the "sunset" jobs and oppose to making a career switch.

I m sure some halfway computer savvy can go into such areas. It is a matter of motivation.

 

A friend of mine went from Florist job into app design and cloud. After working for a company, he opened his own set up and is very successful. Now, he even faces a shortage of local experts in that area to grow his set up.

 

I personally think the Singaporean government should look much more into supporting such mid term career switches in these upcoming industries. Do a loan scheme, take away financial burdens and set a late repayment. I don't think the local universities will create sufficient experts in these areas for the future.

 

 

To be honest, I sometimes find it absolutely repulsive to see foreigners trying to pretend as if they understand and are sympathetic to the local Singaporeans PMETs' situation, and even falsely trying to make suggestions as to what the solution might be, when what they should understand is the fact that they are the problem, and the solution is for them to go back where they came from.