Final Week of US elections

[wilfgene]

 Is another thread called for in order to address the astoundingly massive support Trump still manages to garner?  Without belittling?  Did I miss anyone self reflect on the political scene here?  There is a likely even more divided country just across the causeway, not to mention the island society.  When we point a finger at others, three of our own are pointing at ourselves.

[InBangkok]

10 hours ago, lonelyglobe said:

If Biden win, everyone will open eyes big big and see how he is going to manage this pandemic and the issues with China.  

So true!

[singalion]

If wilfgene was talking about Malaysia. In my humble personal view, this is an issue of continuing to divide the different ethnic components.

 

Just look at Indonesia or Thailand, you don't have segregated parties by race in these countries. Even if the different ethnic components in Indonesia or Thailand are not always on the same view or have disputes, but still it is a political direction like left or right, but it is not this extreme of apartheid sort of segregation you have in Malaysia.

They need to change on this asap.

Further laughable are these internal fights at the same majority ethnic in Malaysia. They are not even fighting on political wings but more on a personal liking or disliking basis. They behave in the same party too often like a bunch of small boys in the sand box throwing stones.

 

But in the US the division is on political terms. "Conservative" policies against more progressive social democrats.

The thing what the Republicans in the US too often forgot was that it were Democrat Presidents who had to clean up the mess the Republicans left behind.

Take Kuwait, Irak, Afghanistan.

Take the huge debt deficit issue after Reagan. he took over just 122 billions on debt and it reached 1050 billion at the end of his term.

It was Clinton who reduced it 401 billion and then Bush junior increased it to 3971 billion after two terms.

 

Second: So far all tax reductions under these Republican "trickle down financial policies" have failed in the past 30 years. The US never achieved the economic growth after tax cuts. And everyone knows excessive tax cuts for corporations is not necessarily increasing wealth of the middle class and not assisting to decrease poverty.

 

The surprise is, mostly the economy in the US in the past 30 years did better in the second term of a Democrat president and job and salary growth increased faster in the same periods. But for Clinton and Obama, both were faced at their first terms with severe public debt. Obama with the consequences of the financial crisis.

 

What I discover for the US is that it seems the economists or political economics are running out of ideas. The Fed rates are low for years, there is not much what these central banks can do any longer to stimulate any economy. The Republican Presidents mostly came with this "tickle down" tax policies. Reagan achieved a 4.2 GDP growth two years after the tax cut, but later the country was left with huge debts.  But if you look at the numbers most democrat Presidents were more successful in achieving better economic growth and more important job growth in the US.  Why is that so?

 

 

 

 

The stupid thing is: Actually the middle class workers from the Trump supporting states (and those voting him the most) are the ones who are the least benefiting from Trump's economic policies. Their tax rate is the same and in most cases they need to bulk out more spending on healthcare etc than others and living costs increased.

The one who benefitted the most are big corporations, corporations in general. But look at many of them, instead of keeping the jobs and factories in the US, even under Trump they moved manufacturing to Mexico and other parts outside the US...

 

I just wonder when Conservative (Republican) economists come out with new and better ideas to grow GDP and jobs without always coming back with the same tax cut policies. It worked for 4 years under Reagan to increase GDP but it caused huge public debt increases and the measures seemed to have lost steam with all tax cuts in the years after Reagan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by singalion
.

[wilfgene]

Anyway, thanks for not belittling.

[singalion]

Did not really get what you meant by belittling.

 

You mean looking down on the US?

 

The important political work in the US will be to bring back people to understand what are fact and just things made up what we call false truths and lies.

 

Unfortunately, there was one guy who managed very well to manipulate many Americans into thinking what their highest political authority said was true.

But most what he said was just untrue. But he mislead these group of people to think it is the truth. And these people were clinging onto something like hope, things will be turning to the better.

And he managed to get too many less educated white Americans to believe, the US will be that country what is was in 1960, a world power other people look upon.

But unfortunately, the world has moved, other countries got more powerful, certain countries managed to gain manufacturing spots and jobs.

Competition was tough, the world moved together, goods were moving easier, manufacturing got internationalised, supply chains changed dramatically, different countries became manufacturing centres, others innovation centres, others logistic hubs and I can go on.

There was never any way to move back to the 1960s.

If he wanted to bring back manufacturing jobs to the US, he would have needed smart lean manufacturing in an innovative, modern and investor friendly environment.

But did he do anything in improving infrastructure in the US?

Did he put investment incentives in place to attract companies to set up manufacturing in the US?

Was there any move in training people to work on these "new" jobs?

 

It was a big huge mistake of US corporations for having moved out the manufacturing to overseas countries after the 1990s. This for sure.

The second mistake was for a country lauding itself as the innovation centre of the world of having missed out to innovate their industries and products.

What industrial innovation is coming seriously from the US?

 

Buying an American product in the 1990 to 2010s was like buying something outdated (look at cars, refrigerators, machinery etc etc).

Only registering more patents and trademarks in the US doesn't mean to improve or innovate on products.

 

Now look at comparable products from Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Korea, France etc and compare them with US products...

 

By making the population believe you will bring back the glory and fame of a country and keeping saying to make the country great again you need to do something.

And now you look back, do you seriously think by closing the country, putting in place restrictions and increasing in import taxes you will achieve this? In particular if the world manufacturing had moved to be more integrated and more international?

But that was this manipulation, making the US population believe the President is going to bring back this fame, but not having any policy in place to support this.

What real investment incentive was created by this President to shift any business to the US?

 

Don't ask me what is the reason why American products started being less competitive. Maybe complacency was the problem.

Maybe a lack to see an economy is run by products and not just "virtual".

[wilfgene]

I meant not dismissing those who disagree with you as fools and etc.  Thanks, again.

[Larry]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:50 PM, singalion said:

Unfortunately, there was one guy who managed very well to manipulate many Americans into thinking what their highest political authority said was true.

But most what he said was just untrue. But he mislead these group of people to think it is the truth. And these people were clinging onto something like hope, things will be turning to the better.

And he managed to get too many less educated white Americans to believe, the US will be that country what is was in 1960, a world power other people look upon.

 

Where are they coming from? Yes, from the rural America.

I got a shock the last time when having a holiday there, "Oh, you're from Singapore, is it part of China?"

[wilfgene]

7 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Where are they coming from? Yes, from the rural America.

I got a shock the last time when having a holiday there, "Oh, you're from Singapore, is it part of China?"

'Close to, but not next to Vietnam.'

Since the focus of Larry's open letter shifted from freedom of speech to discrimination within the 'community', who to address the allure of Donald Trump?  What kind of sentiment and mentality within so many Americans has he managed to appeal to?  Is what he has stirred up going to bury him?

Semblance to Anwar across the causeway, pioneer of Islamic movement for Malay youths, now labelled a liberal.

Jewish son-in-law?

 

 

 

 

'

[InBangkok]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:50 PM, singalion said:

Unfortunately, there was one guy who managed very well to manipulate many Americans into thinking what their highest political authority said was true.

But most what he said was just untrue. But he mislead these group of people to think it is the truth. And these people were clinging onto something like hope, things will be turning to the better.

And he managed to get too many less educated white Americans to believe, the US will be that country what is was in 1960, a world power other people look upon.

But unfortunately, the world has moved, other countries got more powerful, certain countries managed to gain manufacturing spots and jobs.

There is an increasing tendency worldwide for an electorate to vote into office people they know, even though what they know is a mirage. Trump was known nationwide and had carved out a reputation as a great businessman. He wasn’t. Johnson in the UK is the same. A known face, a journalist who allegedly was a great Mayor of London who steered a hugely successful Olympics. Yet his editor in the 1980s went on record to say he didn’t know what he was talking about and electing him to head his political party would be a total disaster. In this part of the world, The Philippines loves to elect known faces. Is it any wonder some have ended up in jail?

 

That apart, there is one very cardinal rule that those in middle America still living in the glory of the 1960s conveniently forget - no doubt because most inhabit a world that extends for a radius of less than 100 kms from where they live. The economist Paul Kennedy wrote a perceptive book at the end of the 1980s. ‘The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers’ chronicles the relationship between extending empires from the 1500s onwards with the ever increasing cost of paying for them. Essentially, you can extend your influence around the world, but you need the latest military forces to do so. Constant innovation in the armed forces and the greater the empire means military overstretch and necessarily requires greater expenditure, and that necessarily requires ever increasing taxation - unless as In the 1500s you discover a new form of wealth like gold.

 

Our world has a great deal to be grateful to America. It’s contribution in World War II, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe quickly, its fight against communism, its opening up of space and all the resultant innovations etc. All that comes at great cost. It conveniently forgets that it encouraged the opening up of China as a bulwark against its hated enemy the Soviet Union. It forgets it deliberately turned a blind eye and let China steal some of its secrets. But it forgot to slam on the breaks and permitted that nation to itself become a great power.

 

With costly on going wars in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan and aggressive postures against Iran, North Korea, Russia and perhaps China, all the latter in a time of pandemic when the USA is running up massive debts, the age of the American Empire is coming to an end, just as the British, French, German, Belgian, Russian, Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian and other empires came to their ends. But Americans don’t want to accept that. They believe they have a God given right to rule and to spread their ideology around the world. I have a feeling that is what all the failed empires also believed.

[wilfgene]

Dem majority in congress has reduced.

Edited November 18, 2020 by wilfgene

[Larry]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:54 AM, InBangkok said:

Our world has a great deal to be grateful to America. It’s contribution in World War II, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe quickly, its fight against communism, its opening up of space and all the resultant innovations etc. All that comes at great cost. It conveniently forgets that it encouraged the opening up of China as a bulwark against its hated enemy the Soviet Union. It forgets it deliberately turned a blind eye and let China steal some of its secrets. But it forgot to slam on the breaks and permitted that nation to itself become a great power.

 

On 11/9/2020 at 2:50 PM, singalion said:

It was a big huge mistake of US corporations for having moved out the manufacturing to overseas countries after the 1990s. This for sure.

The second mistake was for a country lauding itself as the innovation centre of the world of having missed out to innovate their industries and products.

What industrial innovation is coming seriously from the US?

 

Buying an American product in the 1990 to 2010s was like buying something outdated (look at cars, refrigerators, machinery etc etc).

Only registering more patents and trademarks in the US doesn't mean to improve or innovate on products.

 

Now look at comparable products from Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Korea, France etc and compare them with US products...

 

America is a huge melting pot, it absorb all kind of people from anywhere & everywhere. In term of their loyalty to America, I am not too sure, but in term of making money, they are world #1. 

We observed how HP, IBM, Seagate had moved to Singapore, and then moved to Penang, Thailand & lastly to China. The CEO of these companies just focused on the cheap labour cost which would bring in huge profit during the shareholder year-end reporting, in return they got huge rewards for the performance. This is my observation when I was working for them.

The CEOs never looked at the design secret of their products. Unlike the Japanese, my Japanese Engineers were allowed to enter the company library whereas me as their manager was not allow to enter. That's the difference.

 

[singalion]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:20 PM, Larry said:

 

Where are they coming from? Yes, from the rural America.

I got a shock the last time when having a holiday there, "Oh, you're from Singapore, is it part of China?"

 

Sorry Larry, but education for Singaporeans and Malaysians doesn't always seem the best too.

 

In Singapore you can receive questions such as:

 

"Peru, this is an African country, isn't it?" Or people visited "Schloss Belvedere" and insist it was in Switzerland.

 

You would be shocked what lack of general knowledge you can still find in Singapore. Not everyone here passed a super post graduate education. Many people just did Secondary and then ITE.

 

Don't expect too much please.

 

You can meet Singaporeans who don't even know what the Deepavali holiday is about.

 

You take Singapore for too much as to expect outsiders to know Singapore. It is a small city state. Maybe the last 5 years Singapore got better known due to Formula 1 and as a financial and business center. Even in Europe you will find people who don't know where Singapore is. If we receive mail from European government boards to the office here in Singapore, they are often posted to "Singapore, Indonesia" or "Singapore, Malaysia", there was even one letter sent to Portugal from a French government authority just some months ago.

 

When I was in America in a discussion on the potential or required reform in a certain religion from the mid east with young people around end 20's I talked about Martin Luther and all people in the room meant I was taking about the black freedom fighter Martin Luther King. I was surprised with many Americans being Protestants, they didn't even know who Martin Luther was.

 

Most Americans don't even know places in Western Europe. You can still find people in the US asking whether there is still a wall through Europe.

 

Many Americans don't have any need to learn about the world, they will stay in the US for their whole life, maybe do a holiday in Acapulco Mexico, that's it.

 

It has something to do with general education in my view...

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion
/

[singalion]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:51 PM, wilfgene said:

Anyway, thanks for not belittling.

 

It will be the task of politicians to bring back mislead people to stop voting for politicians who are not centered but either very far on the right scale or left side.

(This not only in US, but many countries in Europe as well. Maybe even the Filipinos will once regret having voted for Duterte). 

 

Why should I belittle people who think differently.

It is more important to get all these mislead people back on earth and face realism.

 

These people are clearly mislead by political slogans and a policy that sounds to good to become true. 

 

Did Trump manage to reduce immigration to the US?

Did Trump bring back any factories to the US?

He is claiming a lot but if you read the independent newspapers, it doesn't seem so.

 

Even during the 2020 election he tried to lure workers in the rust belt states to vote for him promising jobs while the factories during the Trump term closed down or still shifted to Mexico (from US manufacturers). "We will create great great jobs for the workers..."   

 

He lost the election by frustrated people who did not longer believe in him. These were the voters in the industrial and farming belts of the US in the swing states, who realised he is taking them as tools (or fools) for his electoral success but his promises have not turned out to come in. He failed to deliver.

 

And for four years he has talked about reforming the healthcare (and other things) but never came out with any proposal but just hot talk and taking the initiative to get rid of the healthcare system initiated by Obama through the courts. If the people had not discovered his aim to tear down any health insurance for the less well off...

 

He is just playing on sentiments. Immigrants are always an easy scapegoat for the cover up of flaws resulting from an unsuccessful policy.

The problem is, Trump is creating too much fires instead of extinguishing the existing fires in the US.

And his policy is leaning too much backwards, as if the world is standing at the level of the 1960s.

 

And take the abortion issue. He is just playing into a certain direction (anti abortion) to gain religious voters, but is he religious himself? Did you ever see him attending a church session (and not only holding a bible in front of a church)?

 

Nevertheless it is surprising (but wasn't unexpected to me), how many voters were still voting in favour of Trump. Actually it is shocking. 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion

[singalion]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:54 AM, InBangkok said:

There is an increasing tendency worldwide for an electorate to vote into office people they know, even though what they know is a mirage. Trump was known nationwide and had carved out a reputation as a great businessman. He wasn’t. Johnson in the UK is the same. A known face, a journalist who allegedly was a great Mayor of London who steered a hugely successful Olympics. Yet his editor in the 1980s went on record to say he didn’t know what he was talking about and electing him to head his political party would be a total disaster. In this part of the world, The Philippines loves to elect known faces. Is it any wonder some have ended up in jail?

 

That apart, there is one very cardinal rule that those in middle America still living in the glory of the 1960s conveniently forget - no doubt because most inhabit a world that extends for a radius of less than 100 kms from where they live. The economist Paul Kennedy wrote a perceptive book at the end of the 1980s. ‘The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers’ chronicles the relationship between extending empires from the 1500s onwards with the ever increasing cost of paying for them. Essentially, you can extend your influence around the world, but you need the latest military forces to do so. Constant innovation in the armed forces and the greater the empire means military overstretch and necessarily requires greater expenditure, and that necessarily requires ever increasing taxation - unless as In the 1500s you discover a new form of wealth like gold.

 

Our world has a great deal to be grateful to America. It’s contribution in World War II, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe quickly, its fight against communism, its opening up of space and all the resultant innovations etc. All that comes at great cost. It conveniently forgets that it encouraged the opening up of China as a bulwark against its hated enemy the Soviet Union. It forgets it deliberately turned a blind eye and let China steal some of its secrets. But it forgot to slam on the breaks and permitted that nation to itself become a great power.

 

With costly on going wars in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan and aggressive postures against Iran, North Korea, Russia and perhaps China, all the latter in a time of pandemic when the USA is running up massive debts, the age of the American Empire is coming to an end, just as the British, French, German, Belgian, Russian, Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian and other empires came to their ends. But Americans don’t want to accept that. They believe they have a God given right to rule and to spread their ideology around the world. I have a feeling that is what all the failed empires also believed.

 

It is more an anti establishment reflex.

Don't forget Trump was never a politician, he was never governor of any state or even a mayor of any city.

In that sense he was a "newcomer" on the political scene.

 

Maybe for the ignorant parts in the central US states, they need to cut off all entertainment TV channels and just show National Geographic and the History channel. ha ha

 

There have been plenty of books of rising empires and failing empires. China is a good example of it. But I don't see these empires coming back to the importance they had in the past, where one spice can rule the whole world.

The world is moving closer together.

 

What I see for the coming 15 years is to bring China to abide by international rules or being cast as an "outsider".

 

If you look at certain things from a different angle, actually it has been China who in the past 10 years was the elephant in the porcelain shop.

What is that with these silly fights and the Indian-Chinese border. Now they even bully a small country like Bhutan.

Why does China need to stretch its shores to the South China sea?

 

On one hand you call others "imperialists" (Like China calling the US) but does China behave differently? Only by peaceful means???

 

Think smart.

 

You can say all the googles (from the US) are violating personal rights and exploiting us for commercial means, but at least in a country like the US, the government can set in rules to restrict such violations.

But look at China?

 

Now ask yourself, who is more dangerous to the world development?

 

China or the US?

 

 

[singalion]

18 hours ago, Larry said:

 

 

America is a huge melting pot, it absorb all kind of people from anywhere & everywhere. In term of their loyalty to America, I am not too sure, but in term of making money, they are world #1. 

We observed how HP, IBM, Seagate had moved to Singapore, and then moved to Penang, Thailand & lastly to China. The CEO of these companies just focused on the cheap labour cost which would bring in huge profit during the shareholder year-end reporting, in return they got huge rewards for the performance. This is my observation when I was working for them.

The CEOs never looked at the design secret of their products. Unlike the Japanese, my Japanese Engineers were allowed to enter the company library whereas me as their manager was not allow to enter. That's the difference.

 

 

But this is a good lesson for the Singapore government to take:

 

So far Singapore always tries to attract MNCs. But what did these MNCs do all these years? Enjoy tax free years in Singapore and then shift the operations, manufacturing, processing outside of Singapore to another country once they were supposed to start paying taxes.

 

Now you look at SME or family owned businesses from overseas...

Mostly they set up and are loyal to Singapore, the job creation comes with their success in the region. But they won't shift operations so easily.

 

Where are the programs from EDB or other government agencies for these type of companies who bring long term jobs and economic growth to Singapore???

Where are any EDB incentives to attract this type of companies to Singapore?

 

You haven't found one?

 

Ok.

 

But still this type of SME investments to Singapore are hampered by regulation, shortage of manpower and ability to hire to grow in Singapore...

[wilfgene]

1 hour ago, singalion said:

 

It will be the task of politicians to bring back mislead people to stop voting for politicians who are not centered but either very far on the right scale or left side.

(This not only in US, but many countries in Europe as well. Maybe even the Filipinos will once regret having voted for Duterte). 

 

Why should I belittle people who think differently.

It is more important to get all these mislead people back on earth and face realism.

 

These people are clearly mislead by political slogans and a policy that sounds to good to become true. 

 

Did Trump manage to reduce immigration to the US?

Did Trump bring back any factories to the US?

He is claiming a lot but if you read the independent newspapers, it doesn't seem so.

 

Even during the 2020 election he tried to lure workers in the rust belt states to vote for him promising jobs while the factories during the Trump term closed down or still shifted to Mexico (from US manufacturers). "We will create great great jobs for the workers..."   

 

He lost the election by frustrated people who did not longer believe in him. These were the voters in the industrial and farming belts of the US in the swing states, who realised he is taking them as tools (or fools) for his electoral success but his promises have not turned out to come in. He failed to deliver.

 

And for four years he has talked about reforming the healthcare (and other things) but never came out with any proposal but just hot talk and taking the initiative to get rid of the healthcare system initiated by Obama through the courts. If the people had not discovered his aim to tear down any health insurance for the less off...

 

He is just playing on sentiments. Immigrants are always an easy scapegoat for the flaws of an unsuccessful policy.

The problem is, Trump is creating too much fires instead of extinguishing the existing fires in the US.

And his policy is leaning too much backwards, as if the world is standing at the level of the 1960s.

 

And take the abortion issue. He is just playing into a certain direction (anti abortion) to gain religious voters, but is he religious himself? Did you ever see him attending a church session (and not only holding a bible in front of a church)?

 

Nevertheless it is surprising (but wasn't unexpected to me), how many voters were still voting in favour of Trump. Actually it is shocking. 

Thanks once again for the reply.

I am aware that I am being lenient on only myself but there seems to be certain ambiguity in your grammar and rhetoric.

Miracle?  You may care to check out the recent post about Luther under 'Being A Gay Christian'.

Expats newsletter this morning reported possibility of an extra 7th fleet based in none other than Singapore.

As @Kimochiposted 'Politic played badly can be devastating'.

[singalion]

Trump's tweets have become increasingly impotent but his lies are getting bigger by the day

 

 

insider@insider.com (John Haltiwanger)

11 hrs ago 19/11/2020

%7B

%7B

%7B

 

• President Donald Trump's lies-via-tweet have become more audacious since Election Day and his loss to President-elect Joe Biden.
• Trump continues to push baseless claims that Democrats rigged the election, among other disinformation, as he refuses to concede.
• But weeks have gone by and no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularities has been discovered, and the Trump campaign's legal challenges have resulted in multiple losses in court or failed to alter the outcome of the election in any states. 
• Trump's tweets are becoming increasingly impotent. He's yelling louder than ever, but fighting a losing battle.

President Donald Trump's tweets have never seemed more feeble and desperate than right now, even as his lies grow bigger by the day. 

Throughout his presidency, Trump has wielded his Twitter account like a political sword. Trump's tweets have moved markets, put pressure on GOP lawmakers to bend to his will, and exacerbated a slew of domestic and global crises. But since his loss to President-elect Joe Biden in the 2020 election, Trump's tweets have become more and more impotent. 

 

"Trump is becoming increasingly irrelevant," former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, a Democrat, tweeted on Monday.

"Yes, he still poses a threat and we must remain vigilant. But, for the most part, we can ignore his tweets and petty outbursts," Reich added. 

"Trump and his tweets are already drifting into irrelevance," Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, tweeted on Sunday. 

Biden also appears to be unfazed by Trump's barrage of tweets, describing the president's refusal to concede as more "embarrassing" for the US than debilitating to his ability to move forward with the transition process. 

—ABC News (@ABC) November 16, 2020

 

Though recent polling suggests many Republican voters have been swayed by Trump's baseless claims of mass voter fraud, no amount of all caps tweets falsely claiming the election was stolen will succeed in overturning the outcome.

 

America's democracy is far from infallible, but the US electoral process has proven to be a relatively immovable force when up against the relentless tide of Trump's disinformation. Trump may have eroded numerous democratic norms while president and research shows he's pushed the US in an autocratic direction, but he has not succeeded in killing American democracy itself.

 

There is absolutely no evidence to back-up Trump's unsubstantiated allegations that Democrats "rigged" the election against him.

The Department of Homeland Security last week released a statement calling the 2020 election the "most secure" in the nation's history.

Election officials across the country representing both major parties have fervently rejected the notion voter fraud or irregularities impacted the outcome of the election.

An international delegation invited by the Trump administration to observe the election applauded the way it was handled despite the challenges presented by the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

Leaders across the globe, including major democracies and key US allies, have overwhelmingly accepted the results of the election and congratulated Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris. This includes world leaders considered to be closely allied with Trump such as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 

The Trump campaign's many legal challenges to the election results have resulted in multiple losses in court and so far failed to alter the outcome of the election in any states. 

 

But Trump continues to carry on as if tweeting nonstop and escalating the scale of misinformation he spreads will change the result.

"I WON THE ELECTION. VOTER FRAUD ALL OVER THE COUNTRY!" Trump falsely declared to his nearly 89 million followers on Wednesday morning. Most of Trump's post-election tweets have been along the same lines — uniformly detached from reality. 

 

Virtually every recent tweet from Trump has been flagged by Twitter for containing misleading information, including tweets that have attacked Republican officials who contradicted the president's groundless voter fraud claims. 

 

Even as Trump's tweets increasingly fade into irrelevance, they do not come without consequences.

Americans are continuing to contract and die from COVID-19 at an alarming rate. Trump's time spent on Twitter spreading disinformation is time lost coordinating with Biden on how to mitigate the spread and distribute a vaccine. 

 

And a recent study conducted by political science researchers from Stanford and five other universities found that exposure to Trump's tweets that undermine the legitimacy of the 2020 election "erodes trust and confidence in elections and increases belief that elections are rigged" among the president's supporters. 

[Larry]

5 hours ago, singalion said:

Now you look at SME or family owned businesses from overseas...

Mostly they set up and are loyal to Singapore, the job creation comes with their success in the region. But they won't shift operations so easily.

 

Don't be too absolute to make this statement.

I'd worked for 2 SMEs supporting Seagate & HP, on metal stamping & precision machining.

When Seagate & HP moved to China, we had no choice but to follow their foot steps.

 

[singalion]

On 11/19/2020 at 6:18 PM, Larry said:

 

Don't be too absolute to make this statement.

I'd worked for 2 SMEs supporting Seagate & HP, on metal stamping & precision machining.

When Seagate & HP moved to China, we had no choice but to follow their foot steps.

 

 

but this is a different thing. If a SME is supplying or servicing an MNC and the MNC shifts operations, then the SME doesn't have much choice and to move on or lose the business.

However, often the SME will not close down the operations at the original location.

 

I had one customer who was supplying a MNC, they shifted operations and manufacturing to Malaysia. My customer moved to Malaysia to continue supplying the MNC, opened shop in Malaysia. After one year the MNC, who had invested hugely into Malaysia decided to close the operations in Malaysia in 3 months. Another 3 months later the MNC went into liquidation. My customer was left with costs and unpaid invoices of 15 Million S$. The investment from the MNC into Malaysia had cost around 500 billion US $.

 

But in general I think SME avoid moving locations and mostly are loyal to one place in a region. It's my experience.

[singalion]

With Georgia and Michigan not "supporting" Trump in the electoral college it seems like the end of the road for Trump.

 

But he is the person to fight a case in the courts just to later claim, what he said (voting fraud ) has incurred (even if only 50 votes of 15 Million were fraudulent).

I don't think he will get anywhere.

 

The worst, Trump is behaving like those African Presidents or PMs who lost the vote but don't want to give up power and then they look to invalidate the vote and just sit on.

 

But he is not doing the image of the democracy in the US a favour, by the post election actions of him he is severely damaging it.

 

He really seems to have the stature of a kid and seems intellectually on the level of a 3 year old.

 

The silence of the Republican Party seems damaging to the US as well. The party leaders in both houses should just speak out and make clear to Trump this is the end of the road. If they have some moral left and political oversight, then in the interest of the democratic institutions whey should oppose to Trump's behaviour.

But it seems these political manners with the Republican party are in severe decline too. The sacrifice common political standpoints.

 

Nobody dares to tell him to stop his "play" or maybe they want him to sink as deep as he can, so that he is gone forever.

 

Looks like it is coming nearer to the point that Trump has no avenue to succeed.

 

Even if Trump can turn Pennsylvania (what I don't think), it would not be sufficient to gain the majority of the electoral college.

Edited November 21, 2020 by singalion

[Steve5380]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:49 AM, singalion said:

Looks like we came to the final day.

 

We can only hope the results will be quite clear and not a repeat of this Al Gore - Bush election.

 

Otherwise it will drag on until January. Hopefully no street fights or even shooting on the streets...

 

 

I remember these days of uncertainty, when so many clairvoyants and amateur prophets released their fantasies.

 

Now over 5 months later it is a pleasure to see how it all turned out.  The results were VERY CLEAR.  And the reaction of the losing party was as predicted.  No street fights or shootings on the streets,  but a massive assault on the Capitol.   Fortunately this is all behind us after 3 months now, and all what remains is to punish the culprits. 

 

The Biden Administration is doing a great job, and one senses the optimism in the American population.