What is the difference between Automatic and Kinetic watch?

[InBangkok]

7 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Not only did I read all the thread but I also contributed much to it.

You also contributed, by letting the TS know not to buy a US$10,000 or so Chopard watch because it only has a 2 year warranty, and it may RUST after that and you may have to pay US$1,200 to have it repaired.   

You certainly did not read all the thread! You made comments based on little bits here and little bits there - as is your common practice. Had you read the thread and taken in what was said, you will have noted that I made it very clear - as did the poster @hemanwho is a collector of fine watches, which I am not  - I failed to have the watch maintained. As I said, that was my fault. As @hemanpointed out, such watches require maintenance on a regular basis. All fine watches do, in the same way as all fine paintings do. Did you not mention Leonardo's Venus de Milo in the thread dealing with Broadway musicals? How many times in its long history has that required maintenance? Not as often as a watch since it does not have moving parts. But it has certainly been affected to its detriment throughout its long history by climatic conditions and required restoration.

 

You then failed to note that having been presented with it 25 years ago, I wrote that I wore it regularly only for a few years. So it was in an apartment with very high heat and humidity for much of the time thereafter. You then fail to point out, as you know perfectly well from other correspondence, that I travel a great deal in my career - usually around 3 months each year and sometimes for a full 4 - 6 weeks at a time. I do not keep the air conditioning on during those times. So over a 20 or so year period, there were something like 4 to 5 full years with a build up of heat and humidity in my apartment. 

 

Fine watches are only susceptible to some form of failure if the owner does not look after them. But you choose to blame the watch, not the owner. Typical!

[Steve5380]

17 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

Fine watches are only susceptible to some form of failure if the owner does not look after them. But you choose to blame the watch, not the owner. Typical!

 

 

Is this typical?  I hadn't noticed.  I think this is nice of me.  I don't like to blame you. 

 

And I won't blame you.  I only want to get in your (thick) head that watches that are at least a bit fine, no matter "maintenance",  climate, use, age,  should not RUST inside. 

 

 

[InBangkok]

5 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

I only want to get in your (thick) head that watches that are at least a bit fine, no matter "maintenance",  climate, use, age,  should not RUST inside. 

Oh dear! Once again you know everything - but the fact is you don't. This is from the auctioneer Christie's - 

 

"Humidity and dust are the main enemies of watches, so you should keep them in dry, temperature-controlled environments. Humidity can get into watches, and that moisture can destroy dials and cause movements to rust."

https://www.christies.com/features/How-to-store-and-maintain-your-watch-9342-1.aspx

 

Ah, but of course you know better than any expert! Whose head is the thick one? Not mine!

[Steve5380]

20 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

Oh dear! Once again you know everything - but the fact is you don't. This is from the auctioneer Christie's - 

 

 

Auctioneer Christie is interested in watches drawing the highest prices possible.  So it likes to mystify them as much as possible. 

As a technologist I don't buy that an hermetically sealed device should be affected by the external atmospheric ambient. 

All you need to do with a good watch is keep it away from temperature extremes, shock and perhaps magnetism.

The shelf life of a can of tomatoes does not depend on the ambient humidity, its "maintenance", its proximity to other cans.

If the tomatoes in an unopened can get spoiled, this is a defect in the can.

If your fancy watch got rusty inside, this was an original defect of your watch.  Not your fault!

[InBangkok]

29 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Auctioneer Christie is interested in watches drawing the highest prices possible.  So it likes to mystify them as much as possible. 

As a technologist I don't buy that an hermetically sealed device should be affected by the external atmospheric ambient. 

All you need to do with a good watch is keep it away from temperature extremes, shock and perhaps magnetism.

The shelf life of a can of tomatoes does not depend on the ambient humidity, its "maintenance", its proximity to other cans.

If the tomatoes in an unopened can get spoiled, this is a defect in the can.

If your fancy watch got rusty inside, this was an original defect of your watch.  Not your fault!

Ah well! So there you go again. Doubling down about something you know nothing about - fine watches. I'll take Christie's advice long before I would even consider one word of yours on this subject. At least Christie's know what they are talking about. And as for a comparison between a fine watch and a can of tomatoes, that is the stupidest thing I have heard since your last comparison.

Edited May 5, 2021 by InBangkok

[heman]

For non diving watches generally , over time moisture will definitely seep through no matter how well it is stored. That is why i have a special dehumidifier space for my watches otherwise it will gel the lubricant and eventually  corrode  the mechanical  parts. One of my Calatrava dial was even oxidised when due to my  negligence. I  wore it near  a geyser in  New Zealand and it was a terrible mistake on my part. It cost  me a great deal to replace that silver dial and its three hands alone. Even for diving watch , make sure once a year it is to be tested for its water tightness, otherwise water will cause severe damage.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by heman

[heman]

By the way i am NOT a watch expert. I am just a plain collector of affordable watches past four decades.

Edited May 5, 2021 by heman

[Guest dumbdumb]

On 5/3/2021 at 9:57 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

You clearly do not realize that you are Out of Topic here!  The TS @durianking does not appear to be a collector of ridiculously expensive watches, but a person who is trying to decide what type of watch to buy for himself.  This is why my posts were intended to describe and clarify the types of watches he was interested in,  and not brag about frivolities.  A Chopard watch that had parts rusted ???  What kind of "fine watch" is this?  Even my $50 watch will not rust, because it is made from rustproof materials and is impermeable. 

 

I am familiar with collecting expensive items for the sake of them being expensive.  And then bragging about such a collection.  As a child I once started a collection of stamps,  nothing expensive of course,  but there are people who pay thousands for some rare stamp.  I have nothing against them, although I think that this is idiotic.  There should be something better to do with one's money in a world where millions of children die of hunger!  

 

This is why super rich Bill Gates is one of my heroes,  and he does not collect expensive watches, that I know.

 

 

So do take care of your money,  and don't spend frivolously. 

 

omfg, pot calling the kettle black

you were the one who went out of topic when someone challenged you about quartz watches, & you went for for a long spin about grandfather clock and einstein.

I can't believe someone can be so obtuse about his own constant off-tangent nonsense

No wonder so many forumers hate to have you in their threads, much toxic attitude.

[Guest dumbdumb]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Auctioneer Christie is interested in watches drawing the highest prices possible.  So it likes to mystify them as much as possible. 

As a technologist I don't buy that an hermetically sealed device should be affected by the external atmospheric ambient. 

All you need to do with a good watch is keep it away from temperature extremes, shock and perhaps magnetism.

The shelf life of a can of tomatoes does not depend on the ambient humidity, its "maintenance", its proximity to other cans.

If the tomatoes in an unopened can get spoiled, this is a defect in the can.

If your fancy watch got rusty inside, this was an original defect of your watch.  Not your fault!

 

Again stupid,

watches are not hermetically sealed, there are crowns and pushers for various functions.

and the watch is protected by seals and gaskets, which corrode and breakdown over time, that lets in moisture and dust.

really can see you type a lot, but all nonsense.

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, heman said:

By the way i am NOT a watch expert. I am just a plain collector of affordable watches past four decades.

 

Your disclaimer is very wise.  It protects you from criticisms and snide attacks

 

4 hours ago, heman said:

For non diving watches generally , over time moisture will definitely seep through no matter how well it is stored. That is why i have a special dehumidifier space for my watches otherwise it will gel the lubricant and eventually  corrode  the mechanical  parts. One of my Calatrava dial was even oxidised when due to my  negligence. I  wore it near  a geyser in  New Zealand and it was a terrible mistake on my part. It cost  me a great deal to replace that silver dial and its three hands alone. Even for diving watch , make sure once a year it is to be tested for its water tightness, otherwise water will cause severe damage.

 

 

If a watch leaks, it will be through its seals.  This means that the less frequently it is opened, the better. Any hermeticity test of your watch that is safe, be it a dry test or wet test, is in reality a test of its AIR tightness.  (water is only used to see if air bubbles come out of the air-pressurized watch).  True water tightness tests are what the manufacturer does during development to make its products reach the desired waterproof standard, or hopefully in rare cases, it can be done to the empty case of a particular watch.

 

You surely are wise enough to take in all your tourism travel an inexpensive quartz watch that one can afford to lose or throw away if damaged, while your beautiful pricey watches remain safely in their dehumidifier enclosure.  My cheap Timex has the looks of a Calatrava, nicely round, stylish and shiny, and hopefully all the thugs in dangerous neighborhoods will recognize its cheapness and not assault me for my watch  

[InBangkok]

13 minutes ago, Guest dumbdumb said:

Again stupid,

watches are not hermetically sealed, there are crowns and pushers for various functions.

and the watch is protected by seals and gaskets, which corrode and breakdown over time, that lets in moisture and dust.

really can see you type a lot, but all nonsense.

But this is @Steve5380's posting style. When he doesn't know something he just makes it up. Some time ago he stated that attending an opera performance in an Opera House was similar to visiting a gay sauna (at the age of 78 he lives for sex tourism in Asia, as he has told readers so many times it gets so crashingly boring). I thought nothing could beat that, but comparing a Chopard fine watch with a can of tomato soup must be the ultimate. But I'll bet he doubles down on this - again his style - as he tries to justify his stupidity.

[Steve5380]

16 minutes ago, Guest dumbdumb said:

 

Again stupid,

watches are not hermetically sealed, there are crowns and pushers for various functions.

and the watch is protected by seals and gaskets, which corrode and breakdown over time, that lets in moisture and dust.

really can see you type a lot, but all nonsense.

 

Yes, "Guest dumbdumb" is stupid.  You are afraid of grandfather clocks and smart people like Einstein.  And you have no intelligent judgment of your own.   Watches have crowns and pushers, and so do cellphones.   There are people who buy quality cellphones and keep them for years.  Yet they don't bring in their cellphones for yearly cleaning and waterproof testing.  It is also unheard of cellphones that rust inside,  even if they have many more parts than watches that can be prone to water damage.

 

[Steve5380]

Since you cannot put an end to your attacks here, let me remind you of what you wrote in your first post here:

 

On 5/3/2021 at 3:13 AM, InBangkok said:

 

On another thread I mentioned the Chopard watch I was given by a client 25 years ago. Stupidly, given the heat and humidity in Asia, I failed to have it maintained. When I decided to give it to a younger member of my family, I had it checked up. Rust had got into some of the parts. It cost US$1,200 to restore.

 

 

You don't understand what 'rust' means.  This makes sense since you are not technological savvy but a music guy.   Here is a definition:

 

RUST: noun

1. 1.

   a reddish- or yellowish-brown flaky coating of iron oxide that is formed on iron or steel by oxidation, especially in the presence of moisture.

   "paint protects your car from rust"

Iron oxide can only form on metals that contain iron.  And the iron inside watches is stainless steel, which is rustproof.

You don't need to be an expert in metallurgy or any other technical stuff.  You are fine knowing about music.  But if you are wise, you will not attack people you don't like for their opinions of subjects that are their strength and your weakness. 

 

[heman]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

f a watch leaks, it will be through its seals.

For your information , the weakest link is THE WINDING CROWN apart from the special rubberized ring that the backcase is locked into the case. As time passes by the "rubber ring" will become less elastic and this may cause leakage too. One of my very priced watch had its seal weakened after ten years of wear and tear but it was the CROWN that cause the problem in majority of cases.

[heman]

I was invited to a Patek Phillipe work station few years ago to learn about it. 

[heman]

42 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

'rust'

Some Watches for example like those from IWC are not siliconized. They still use a soft iron cage to protect against magnetism in their very highly priced watches. As such rust do occur. Only with the revolution of silicon springs and escapements these are minimized very substantially. Some very specialized brand such as my favourite Kari Voutilinen even use solid gold now to counter the effect. Its simplest watch has a minimal  price of about $50K. They are very outstanding.

The old Chopard watches are proned to rust and mechanical erosions due to wear and tear. It is strongly advised to have those watches cleansed and lubricated every THREE years. Metallurgy has changed rapidly in past decade to slow down such effects.

Edited May 5, 2021 by heman

[Steve5380]

5 minutes ago, heman said:

For your information , the weakest link is THE WINDING CROWN apart from the special rubberized ring that the backcase is locked into the case. As time passes by the "rubber ring" will become less elastic and this may cause leakage too. One of my very priced watch had its seal weakened after ten years of wear and tear but it was the CROWN that cause the problem in majority of cases.

 

You are right, the winding crown is the part most used in a watch, and it has a seal.  The best ones are the crowns that are pushed in and tightened, like in my TAG.  I haven't seen it, but I imagine that it has a good quality o-ring seal that gets compressed when tightened.

 

6 minutes ago, heman said:

I was invited to a Patek Phillipe work station few years ago to learn about it. 

 

This must have been interesting.  The more I read about watches, the more I find that one can get passionate about.

 

4 minutes ago, heman said:

Watches from IWC is not siliconized. They still use a soft iron cage to protect against magnetism in their very highly priced watches. As such rust do occur. Only with the revolution of silicon springs and escapements these are minimized very substantially. Some very specialized brandl ike Kari Voutilinen even use solid gold now to counter the effect. Its simplest watch has a minimal  price of about $50K. They are very outstanding.

 

 

This is interesting!  A soft metal case to diminish magnetic fields inside.  Perhaps a mu metal with high permeability and resistance to corrosion?  Cannot they protectively coat any metal that may oxidize?  It can be a nearly molecular coating, not as thick as the painting on a car...   I understand that Rolex has its own proprietary metals fabricated.   Thanks for the information.

[heman]

Rolex developed a special stainless steel for their cases and this continue to be enhanced as time progresses. Chopard especially for past three or four years if i am not wrong developed a very superior steel that does not scratch easily and is as brilliant or even more brilliant than white gold. I saw this in its MBS boutique a few days ago with a very reasonable price tag between 15K to 18K as compared to PP ,AP or even VC. I almost purchase it but stop short because of some specific horological reasons. Indeed the world of horology is fascinating. A watch needs not be expensive. Even brands like Victorinia , Sinn and Hamilton with their generic movements from like ETA and Selita (hope correct spelling) are interesting. I salute Seiko for they use their inhouse movements and priced reasonably affordable. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by heman

[heman]

39 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

protectively coat any metal that may oxidize

One of my collection from Ulysee Nardin Marine chronometer Tropellier has a very interesting development. It went further in its silicon technology to improve wear and tear by coating its silicon with microscopic diamond crystals which is term as Diamonsil. Since it is not cheap , the brand is now venturing using sapphire crystals to coat its silicon mechanism. For your information Ulysee Nardin is the pioneer in silicon watch technology. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by heman

[Steve5380]

After finishing reading your post, I made a trip to a very fine jewelry close to my home where I had changed the battery of my TAG, which had stopped running at end of last year.  (This threads with plenty of conversations are really motivating  )

 

US$25 for the new battery, and I was asked if I wanted also its hermeticity checked with a dry test, for an additional US$50.  As you can imagine, I gently declined.  I had last been there for the last battery in 2016, so I got 4 years out of it.  Now it is ticking beautifully and will keep doing it for the next 4 years.   While I was at the jewelry I was fascinated looking at the displays of fine watches, some of the ones mentioned in this thread.  Tempting... 

[InBangkok]

 

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

You don't understand what 'rust' means.

Frankly I have not the faintest desire to read your definition of rust or what it technically means. When the expert specialist Chopard dealers and technicicans in both Bangkok and Hong Kong told me that there are parts of my Chopard watch that had rusted after being exposed to high heat and humidity for too many years and required replacement, I did not argue that it cannot be rust according to your definition. I accepted their expertise and I paid for the repair. I suppose @Steve5380would have written to the present Chairman Karl-Heinz Sheufele to complain about rust in his watch that had not been maintained. As @heman pointed out in a post on Sunday, "Normally we are advised to service a mechanical watch every three to five years." But then @Steve5380 who knows little, goes on and on about fine watches not rusting. Since @Steve5380 went to a watch store recently, why did he not ask the dealer in the fine watch department? Because you did not want to hear the answer, perhaps?

 

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Yes, "Guest dumbdumb" is stupid.  You are afraid of grandfather clocks and smart people like Einstein.  And you have no intelligent judgment of your own.   Watches have crowns and pushers, and so do cellphones.   There are people who buy quality cellphones and keep them for years.  Yet they don't bring in their cellphones for yearly cleaning and waterproof testing.  It is also unheard of cellphones that rust inside,  even if they have many more parts than watches that can be prone to water damage.

See @Guestdumbdumb? What did I tell you? He makes errors and then he just dumbs down and keeps on repeating the error/s unit he hopes the conversation moves on to another topic and his errors are forgotten. Having lost his original argument that fine watches do not rust, he compares a fine watch with a can of tomatoes! Now he is comparing fine watches with cellphones. I suppose lots of his friends (the few facts in his life he keeps from these columns) purchased cellphones in 1996 (but must have been made a year or two earlier) and they remain rust free. Technology for smart phones and watches have evolved. But we are discussing 1996. Were his or his friends 1996 cellphones rust free? Let's see photos.

[heman]

14 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

if they have many more parts than watches that can be prone to water damage.

Generally watches may contain more parts than a cellphone. For Patek for example which i am more familiar, the simplest 38cm by just 3mm thickness may contain at least 150 to 200 components whereas for much more complicated ones of same diameter but about 10 mm thickness on the average can contain from 350  to more than 450 parts. I am unsure of cellphone components. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by heman

[Steve5380]

Thinking of watches, watching my quartz clock it tells me that at 7:30AM its time to go to go to the gym.

[Guest Time Teller]

I simply look at the sky, watch the direction of birds flying and and then listened to the sounds of insects and was able to tell the time of the day.  

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Guest Time Teller said:

I simply look at the sky, watch the direction of birds flying and and then listened to the sounds of insects and was able to tell the time of the day.  

 

A good horology! I also looked at the sky, some birds flying and some squirrels playing, a beautiful clear spring day.  Gone is the ugly freezing winter!

 

10 hours ago, heman said:

Generally watches may contain more parts than a cellphone. For Patek for example which i am more familiar, the simplest 38cm by just 3mm thickness may contain at least 150 to 200 components whereas for much more complicated ones of same diameter but about 10 mm thickness on the average can contain from 350  to more than 450 parts. I am unsure of cellphone components. 

 

I am impressed.  And I understand better the high cost of these watches.  In a $35,000 watch that contains 350 parts, each one costs only $100.

 

A normal cellphone does not stay far behind.  It has BILLIONS of transistors deposited on its silicon chips, plus thousands more that make the thousands of pixels on its display.  But these parts are perfectly sealed hermetically, never to be damaged by humidity.  But if contaminated water enters the phone, it can short delicate electronic circuits, making the phone inoperable.  This damage however is often reversed by letting the phone dry out.  

[InBangkok]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

A normal cellphone does not stay far behind.  It has BILLIONS of transistors deposited on its silicon chips, plus thousands more that make the thousands of pixels on its display.  But these parts are perfectly sealed hermetically, never to be damaged by humidity.  But if contaminated water enters the phone, it can short delicate electronic circuits, making the phone inoperable.  This damage however is often reversed by letting the phone dry out.  

Doubling down again - and for the umpteenth time showing ignorance. You were commenting on my Chopard watch which was presented to me 25 years ago - probably made the year before. As I asked before, how many mobile phones do you know of which are 25 or 26 years old which have not rusted? In fact, to your knowledge, do you know anyone who has a mobile phone of that era? 

 

The comparison with the present day technology in a smartphone is - to use your favourite word - nonsense. In fact t is utter nonsense. Don't you realise that in making such comments you just show your stupidity?

[Steve5380]

As a young man, before there were quartz electronic watches,  I had plenty of mechanical watches, a few of them automatic.  This was about 60 years ago.  But since none of them were Chopard,  I never had a wristwatch that rusted.   I also had telephones, the early touch-tone ones,  and never one rusted.  Last year I repaired some old electronic equipment,  one lab oscilloscope Tektronix 547 over 50 years old,  with surely as many parts as a mechanical watch.  Nothing in it was rusted!  Same with other complicated Tektronix equipment over 30 years old,  also not rusted. 

. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

13 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

As a young man, before there were quartz electronic watches,  I had plenty of mechanical watches, a few of them automatic.  This was about 60 years ago.  But since none of them were Chopard,  I never had a wristwatch that rusted.   I also had telephones, the early touch-tone ones,  and never one rusted.  Last year I repaired some old electronic equipment,  one lab oscilloscope Tektronix 547 over 50 years old,  with surely as many parts as a mechanical watch.  Nothing in it was rusted!  Same with other complicated Tektronix equipment over 30 years old,  also not rusted. 

Does anyone have any idea what this old poster is on about. Comparison with cans of tomatoes, mobile phones and now ancient touch tone telephones. The issue is simple. Depending on conditions, some items rust. Others don't. Period. I'll bet cars in Houston Texas rust -UNLESS THEY ARE PROPERLY MAINTAINED!

 

The poster reminds me a lot of Jaques when he gives his Monologue in Shakespeare's As You Like It, the one which starts "All the world's a stage." It deals with the seven ages of man and ends. "Last scene of all, that ends this strange eventful history, is second childishness." Childishness. How perfectly apt!

Edited May 7, 2021 by InBangkok

[Guest What?]

14 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

A good horology! I also looked at the sky, some birds flying and some squirrels playing, a beautiful clear spring day.  Gone is the ugly freezing winter!

 

You are confused between time telling and season telling.   I can tell the change of season without need to look at anything, my skin can feel it already. 

[Steve5380]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:33 PM, Guest What? said:

You are confused between time telling and season telling.   I can tell the change of season without need to look at anything, my skin can feel it already. 

 

I also don't need to look at anything to know the season.  I know the season from the date,  don't you?  As for "skin feeling", seasons are much more pronounced and distinguishable in Houston than in Singapore. 

 

The TS  @durianking only posted twice and not again after I answered his question.  This makes me think that he is a reasonable, practical person interested in a watch for the right reasons.  And these reasons must clearly point to a quartz watch.  I can only recognize as an intelligent reason to have a mechanical watch the passion, the fascination for mechanical horology and all the ingenious (and expensive) solutions to the imperfection of their mechanisms.

 

An electronic (quartz) watch is the perfect choice today.  Precision, simplicity, no need for periodic cleansing and lubrication. No need for sophisticated materials. And, if looks are important, there are many options in quartz watches,  from the inexpensive Timex, which has elegant models of stylish simplicity for less than $100, which are also highly precise, to the fancier TAG for divers and braggers about diving and about wearing expensive time pieces. 

 

What makes the electronic watches so superior:  it starts with their operation.  Mechanical watches are energized with strong force from the first gear on their winded coil turning extremely slow and having to multiply this turning with a chain of gears each turning faster and with less force.  By the time it reaches the escapement, the force is minuscule, and so it is influenced by any friction, magnetism. This affects the time precision, the same as any gravitational imbalance of the mechanism that needs correction with sophisticated tourbillions.  In contrast, in an electronic watch all the time precision is in the electronics, and when it comes to moving parts, this starts with a tiny stepping motor that moves the seconds arm once a second with a tick-tack.  From there on, the seconds gear steps down the movement to the minutes and hours gear.  The load on the stepping motor does not affect the timing, and any additional small resistance to move the gears that follow is irrelevant. 

 

I like comparisons,  and so I like the example of the carburation in a car.  Before electronic ignition, computerized motor control,  cars needed to have a complex 'carburetor' that adjusts the air/gas mixture to optimum value for a variety of driving conditions.  These carburetors were very ingenuous mechanical and vacuum devices that required expert maintenance.  Only a few cars with carburetors are left on the road, but the lovers of antique expensive cars are still interested in them.  This love for antiques is the only justification for having a car with carburetor.  I find something similar in buying mechanical watches today.

.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Steve5380

[Guest dumbdumb]

8 hours ago, Guest What? said:

You are confused between time telling and season telling.   I can tell the change of season without need to look at anything, my skin can feel it already. 

 

he is perpetually confused, people asked about quartz watch, he go talk about grandfather clock and einstein

then he say his response is to the point.... no wonder everyone hates him here, i wonder if he has real life friends.

[Guest dumbdumb]

10 hours ago, InBangkok said:

Does anyone have any idea what this old poster is on about. Comparison with cans of tomatoes, mobile phones and now ancient touch tone telephones. The issue is simple. Depending on conditions, some items rust. Others don't. Period. I'll bet cars in Houston Texas rust -UNLESS THEY ARE PROPERLY MAINTAINED!

 

The poster reminds me a lot of Jaques when he gives his Monologue in Shakespeare's As You Like It, the one which starts "All the world's a stage." It deals with the seven ages of man and ends. "Last scene of all, that ends this strange eventful history, is second childishness." Childishness. How perfectly apt!

 

I bet nothing he used rusted or corroded ever.... I bet he will say next his automatic watches are used in a state of vacuum, no air or dust ever gets into his watches, thus it will be always hermetically sealed.... lol his brain is in a vacuum more like it.

[Steve5380]

6 minutes ago, Guest dumbdumb said:

 

I bet nothing he used rusted or corroded ever.... I bet he will say next his automatic watches are used in a state of vacuum, no air or dust ever gets into his watches, thus it will be always hermetically sealed.... lol his brain is in a vacuum more like it.

 

I like my perfect comparison with a can of tomatoes.  I have never found a can of tomatoes or any other canned product, that unopened... rusted inside!   

[Guest The Hands of Time]

48 minutes ago, Guest dumbdumb said:

 

he is perpetually confused, people asked about quartz watch, he go talk about grandfather clock and einstein

then he say his response is to the point.... no wonder everyone hates him here, i wonder if he has real life friends.

Don't be rude to an old man.  He may appear as senile as an old grandfather clock, but he is quite kind, like the shorter hand waiting for the 2nd longer hand to catch up while also acting silly like the 3rd hand racing every second.   Occassionally, he needs to be manually prod to keep with the time, of our thinking.  He may be rusty, but vintage nonetheless. When day becomes night and the clock strikes heavy, museum his fate shall lays, and mildly appreciate through passing time.

[Guest tomato can]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I like my perfect comparison with a can of tomatoes.  I have never found a can of tomatoes or any other canned product, that unopened... rusted inside!   

oh i like your tomato can comparison, because i have frequently found unopened cans with rust inside before!

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, Guest tomato can said:

oh i like your tomato can comparison, because i have frequently found unopened cans with rust inside before!

 

Well... Guest tomato should know!   But in this case, the cans were mistreated somehow, so that the seal broke.  I am very careful with the canned products I buy,  and sliced tomatoes is one of my most frequent cans since I use them in my dish of lentils with vegetables.  Using one can every three days for a decade is over a thousand cans.  In more than a thousand cans I never had an unopened can with rust inside!

 

You should check that a can has not been hit and deformed, especially at the seal.  It is astounding how many cans in a grocery store have been mishandled. 

.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Steve5380

[Guest Confused]

Since when did Watch became a healthy canned tomato, i have absolutely no idea.

[Steve5380]

26 minutes ago, Guest Confused said:

Since when did Watch became a healthy canned tomato, i have absolutely no idea.

 

This is a good question to ask Guest tomato.    But if you get confused over so little, ...  you have a problem!

[durianking]

so sorry if my post become a heated argument here. But I am grateful to see some of you who really passionate about watch and willingness to share a bit of what you know esp @Steve5380 and @heman and some other BWs also ....

I have finally bought my Seiko Automatic. As this piece will live with me for years so I need to choose the design that can go along with me. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by durianking
typo

[heman]

33 minutes ago, durianking said:

I have finally bought my Seiko Automatic

Congratulation Durianking . The above stainless steel "Seiko 5 Sport "watch with its guarded screw down crown is a nice watch that you can wear casually and even semi casually. It has an inhouse movement 4R36 if i recalled and that is important for Seiko calibres are wonderful work horse that can stand both time and good impact. To keep your watch looking good it is wise to just rinse it with cold or warm water and using as little soap as possible for the lather can leak into the crown. If i am not wrong it has a power reserve of about 40 hrs and i suggest you wind it about the same time everyday if you dont wear it. It needs about six to eight hours of daily wear for the automatic function to go smoothly. NEVER  use abrasive cleanser like Brasso to clean or shine it. 

Well i hope you enjoy wearing it. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by heman

[heman]

By the way that Seiko stainless steel bracelet resembles that of iconic Rolex Oyster bracelet which is extremely comfortable on the wrist. Make sure the fitting is good (must be just above the wrist and not dangling loose), otherwise the rotor which is responsible for automatic power reserve is not  doing its function well.

Edited May 8, 2021 by heman

[Guest What is this??]

1 hour ago, durianking said:

so sorry if my post become a heated argument here. But I am grateful to see some of you who really passionate about watch and willingness to share a bit of what you know esp @Steve5380 and @heman and some other BWs also ....

I have finally bought my Seiko Automatic. As this piece will live with me for years so I need to choose the design that can go along with me. 

Don't you think the additional "date" feature looks too dated? 

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, durianking said:

so sorry if my post become a heated argument here. But I am grateful to see some of you who really passionate about watch and willingness to share a bit of what you know esp @Steve5380 and @heman and some other BWs also ....

I have finally bought my Seiko Automatic. As this piece will live with me for years so I need to choose the design that can go along with me. 

 

 

You bought a very nice watch, of good quality and moderately priced.

 

I also like the SEIKO brand.  I don't have a Seiko wristwatch, but a Seiko R-WAVE quartz atomic alarm clock and a Seiko quartz metronome. All working flawlessly for many, many years.  If not a quartz watch, you probably have at least a quartz cellphone, ha ha.

[Steve5380]

1 minute ago, Guest What is this?? said:

Don't you think the additional "date" feature looks too dated? 

 

What do you mean?  With a "date" feature a watch has to be "dated" by definition!  It is also hour-ed, minute-d and second-ed.  

[heman]

5 hours ago, Guest What is this?? said:

Don't you think the additional "date" feature looks too dated? 

Seiko 5 Sports has been in the market for past 30 yrs and recent models still try to retain the retro look. Currently from Watch and Wonders Geneva, watch makers are into smaller and retro look too. The large diameter of IWC which can be a huge 50cm like the Portugese and Portofino series currently has been reduced. Even Rolex "oldman" Date Just has its diameter reduced.

This date/day apertures is now a hit with IWC pilot and Big Pilot collection though the diameter is much reduced to about 41cm.

I know it looks cluttered but it is a practical watch (bear in mind @duriankingfirst watch.

For a purist of dress watches they only want a two hands watch , non automatic mechanical and a clean face without date. Again it is a personal choice. For practicality i still prefer  date aperture even though a few in my collections from JLC and PP do not have one.

Moser & Co , a very fine watch maker went to great extreme to produce a watch without hands and indices . On the dial you only find the label name and you tell the time by pressing a lever. This is the most ridiculous watch in my opinion and it costs more than a half a million - The Moser and Co MINUTE REPEATOR which produce a sound when you want to know the time.

Edited May 8, 2021 by heman

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, heman said:

 

For a purist of dress watches they only want a two hands watch , non automatic mechanical and a clean face without date. Again it is a personal choice. For practicality i still prefer  date aperture even though a few in my collections from JLC and PP do not have one.

Moser & Co , a very fine watch maker went to great extreme to produce a watch without hands and indices . On the dial you only find the label name and you tell the time by pressing a lever. This is the most ridiculous watch in my opinion and it costs more than a half a million - The Moser and Co MINUTE REPEATOR which produce a sound when you want to know the time.

 

 

This 'purism' is simply a desperation for ways to be differentiated from others.  I have also seen watches with handles but no markings, so that one can guess the time from their geometrical position.  Could this kind of 'purism' drive someone to make a very fine car without starter but with the crankshaft brought out to the front to connect the handle to crank up the engine?

 

The most ridiculous in time devices I have seen came as a present from my sister, who knows me as an IT guy:  a clock with BINARY display.  Yes, an opportunity for mental exercise by instantly converting binary to decimal in the head to realize that, for example,

 

1011 : 011110 AM  is 11:30 AM  (sounds like fun, doesn't it,  especially when one is in a hurry!)

 

After enthusiastically thanking my sister and having this thing running for a couple of days, I had this gadget promptly stuck away for good!  

 

My ideal of wristwatch is one that is extremely thin and lightweight. It can be minimalist, but should offer the time, either with handles or digital display, within a one second glance. 

[Steve5380]

I think I have found a recommendation for @durianking's second watch:

 

 

A TRIPLE tourbillion!   And apparently for less than $100,000.  I can imagine the fascination of seeing the mechanism constantly turn in the three dimensions.  Beautiful!  And can we expect this watch to not rust inside?

 

I understand.  I fully understand!  It used to be for cute gays to walk around a small little friendly dog to call attention on themselves.  A watch like this should be a much stronger attractor of attention and a sure initiator of conversations that can lead very far.   

.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Steve5380

[heman]

The above is a gyro tourbillon . It was first invented by JLC Reverso if i recalled. The above video is not that complicated as compared to Arnold & Co for its unique sapphire dome. To me it is not a practical watch to wear but it is wonderful watch to stare at. The gyro tourbillion is extremely difficult to craft. Here is where Science meet Art and vice versa in my honest opinion.

Modern metallurgy has redefined watch makers science. Thus the problem of rusting is almost impossible now than watches produced thirty or forty years ago where soft iron cages are being used to minimize magnetism.

Actually if it is really S100K as you mentioned the price is far too  cheap for the MB and F watch. Such watches normally cost about almost half a million in my opinion.

Edited May 8, 2021 by heman

[heman]

As i mentioned in an earlier post Kari Voutillien is the one of the names in watch making to acknowledge now. His simplest watch is a reasonably priced at about 50K and rest assured it is worth the money if you look into its manufacture carefully.

As one mature into watches, we turn our attention not so much for the rather common PP, VC or AP but now the independent watch makers.They are not tied down by the norm. They dare to experiment beyond the normality.

Edited May 8, 2021 by heman

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:39 AM, Guest dumbdumb said:

 

I bet nothing he used rusted or corroded ever.... I bet he will say next his automatic watches are used in a state of vacuum, no air or dust ever gets into his watches, thus it will be always hermetically sealed.... lol his brain is in a vacuum more like it.

 

This is dumbdumb.  If a watch is in a vacuum inside,  THIS is the reason air will try to enter.  You got it backwards. It should have an inert gas at some pressure inside. 

 

8 minutes ago, heman said:

The above is a gyro tourbillon . It was first invented by JLC Reverso if i recalled. The above video is not that complicated as compared to Arnold & Co for its dome shaped sapphire dome. To me it is not a practical watch to wear but it is wonderful watch to stare at. The gyro tourbillion is extremely difficult to craft. Here is where Science meet Art and vice versa in my honest opinion.

Modern metallurgy has redefined watch makers science. Thus the problem of rusting is almost impossible now than watches produced thirty or forty years ago where soft iron cages are being used to minimize magnetism.

Actually S100K is comparatively cheap for the MB and F watch.

 

It is not practical to wear,  but isn't it a fantastic attention seeker?

 

You mentioned EXACTLY the big positive in modern watch making:  advances in metallurgy science and fine machining tools.  I assume that they got rid of anything inside that can be magnetized,  like silicon hairsprings?