Aging is inevitable, so why not do it joyfully? Here’s how

[GachiMuchi]

Aging is inevitable, so why not do it joyfully? Here’s how

Apr 27, 2021 / Ingrid Fetell Lee

Angus Greig

 

This post is part of TED’s “How to Be a Better Human” series, each of which contains a piece of helpful advice from people in the TED community; browse through all the posts here.

 

It was recently my birthday. It wasn’t a “big” birthday — one of those round-numbered ones that feels like a milestone — but nevertheless it got me thinking about aging.

 

When I was a kid, growing older felt like an achievement. Each year that passed marked one step closer to adulthood, which for me meant independence and freedom. I remember going to the city with my dad to see plays or go to the Met and seeing a group of women having lunch in a café. It seemed glamorous and exciting to be an adult. I couldn’t wait.

 

Likewise, I never quite understood the popular antipathy toward old age. At Spencer’s, a novelty store at the Galleria Mall in White Plains where my friends and I would find gag gifts, I was always perplexed by the section of “Over the Hill” merchandise. I mean, my grandparents didn’t listen to my music or play Nintendo with me, but they were cool in their own way — not crusty and out of touch like the caricatures suggested. The geezer jokes and “lying about your age” punchlines that adorned the mugs and t-shirts there seemed to come from another world, one that didn’t make sense to me.

 

In my 20s and 30s, friends would casually toss around the phrase “We’re so old!” I rolled my eyes. We were so young, I felt, and why should we waste that youth focused on what was already behind us? After all, right at that moment we were the youngest we would ever be.

My 20s were miles better than my teens — more expansive, less cloistered —  and my 30s better than my 20s. I became more confident in my 30s, I got into therapy and dealt with years of childhood trauma, I learned to communicate my needs and be more mindful of the needs of others. I wouldn’t trade the growth of these past decades for fewer lines on my face or grey hairs on my head.

Author Heather Havrilesky wrote: “Growing old gracefully really means either disappearing or sticking around but always lying straight to people’s faces about the strength of your feelings and desires.”

Now that I’m in my 40s, though, aging isn’t some future concept. Just being alive means growing older, so yes, we’ve all been aging since we were born. But at a certain point, the notion of what life will be like in a couple of decades starts to feel more real, and then I start to reflect more on what my current choices mean for that future me.

 

I look back and wonder what my work-hard-play-hard 20s mean for me now. Could I have had a healthier body today if I had been kinder to it when I was younger? And could being gentler now give me more joy and freedom in the future?

 

The dominant discourse on aging, especially when it comes to women, revolves around “aging gracefully.” This generally involves looking at least three to five years younger than you actually are, while not appearing to do anything to get that way. It also means “acting your age,” by wearing age-appropriate clothes (mini skirts have an expiration date, apparently), having age-appropriate hair and doing age-appropriate activities — but maybe doing one or two surprisingly youthful things (surfing, maybe, or tap dancing) that don’t seem like you’re trying too hard yet let people know you’re still in the game.

 

As author Heather Havrilesky writes in her biting essay on the topic, “I think about how growing old gracefully really means either disappearing or sticking around but always lying straight to people’s faces about the strength of your feelings and desires.”

The only way to age and be deemed acceptable is to have lucky genes or to conceal your battles against time underneath a practiced smile.

“Aging gracefully” entails walking a tightrope between a youth-obsessed society, which tells us that our value declines as we age, and a culture that says nothing is as uncool as desperation, the fervent desire for something we can’t have. Marketers stoke our desire for youthfulness as the ticket to remaining relevant, then shame us when our efforts to preserve that youth go awry.

 

So the person who ages without thought to their appearance is written off as “having given up,” and the one whose face remains 35 forever thanks to the surgeon’s knife is considered a joke, and the only way to be deemed acceptable is to have lucky genes or to conceal your battles against time underneath a practiced smile. It all sounds exhausting, doesn’t it?

 

And so I’ve been thinking about how we move beyond this damaging — and frankly misogynistic — frame. What if instead of seeing aging as something to defeat and conquer, we were to embrace what gets better with age, and work to amplify these joys while mitigating the losses of youth? I’m not suggesting we paper over the very real challenges, both physical and mental, that come with aging. But can we view these challenges without judgment or shame and instead look for joyful ways to navigate them?

 

I delved into the research on aging, and here are 8 insights I’ve found that can help us think about joyful ways to feel well as we grow older.

 

1. Seek out awe 

In a study of older adults, researchers found that taking an “awe walk,” a walk specifically focused on attending to vast or inspiring things in the environment, increased joy and prosocial emotions (feelings like generosity and kindness) more than simply taking a stroll in nature. Interestingly, they also found that “smile intensity,” a measure of how much the participants smiled, increased over the eight-week duration of the study. These walks were only 15 minutes long, once a week, and are low impact, so this is an easy way to create more joy in daily life as we age.

 

Practiced joyspotters well know the power of attending to joyful stimuli in the environment to boost mood. This study suggests that tuning our attention specifically to things that invoke wonder and awe can have measurable benefits, especially for older adults.

 

2. Get a culture fix 

A 1996 study of more than 12,000 people Sweden found that attending cultural events correlated with increased survival, while people who rarely attended cultural events had a higher risk of mortality. Since then, a raft of studies (a good summary of them here) has affirmed that people who participate in social activities such as attending church, going to the movies, playing cards or bingo, or going to restaurants or sporting events is linked with decreased mortality among older adults. One reason may be that these activities increase social connection, deepen relationships, and reinforce feelings of belonging, which are positively associated with well-being. Cultural activities also help keep the mind sharp. While the pandemic has made this one challenging, as things start to open up again, getting a culture fix can be an easy way to age joyfully.

Enriching your environment with color, art, plants and other sensorially stimulating elements may be a worthwhile investment not just for protecting your mind as you age, but also your joy.

3. Stimulate your senses

One of the most talked-about parts of my TED Talk is when I describe my experience spending a night at the wildly colorful Reversible Destiny Lofts, an apartment building designed by the artist Arakawa and the poet Madeline Gins, who believed it could reverse aging.

 

The idea that an apartment could reverse aging sounds farfetched, but it becomes more grounded when we look at the theory behind it. Arakawa and Gins believed that just as our muscles atrophy if we don’t exercise them, our cognitive capacity diminishes if we don’t stimulate our senses. They looked at our beige, dull interiors and imagined that these spaces would make our minds wither. And as it turns out, some early research in animals (see also) suggests there might be something to this. When mice are placed in “enriched environments” with lots of sensorial stimuli and opportunities for physical movement, it mitigates neurological changes associated with Alzheimer’s and dementia. While there is some evidence to suggest that this might apply to humans as well, the mechanisms behind this phenomenon are not yet well understood.

 

That said, we do know that the acuity of our senses declines with age. The lenses of our eyes thicken and tinge more yellow, allowing less light into the eye. Our sense of smell, taste and hearing also become less sharp. So, while you don’t have to recreate Arakawa and Gins’s quirky apartments, enriching your environment with color, art, plants and other sensorially stimulating elements may be a worthwhile investment not just for protecting your mind as you age, but also your joy.

4. Buy yourself flowers 

As if you needed an excuse for this one, but just in case, here you go. A study of older adults found that memory and mood improved when people were given a gift of flowers, which wasn’t the case when they were given another kind of gift.

 

Why would flowers have this effect? One reason may link to research on the attention restoration effect, which shows that the passive stimulation we find in looking at greenery helps to restore our ability to concentrate. Perhaps improved attention also results in improved memory. Another possibility, which is pure speculation at this point, relates to the evolutionary rationale for our interest in flowers. Because flowers eventually become fruit, it would have made sense for our ancestors to take an interest in them and remember their location. Monitoring the locations of flowers would allow them to save time and energy when it came to finding fruiting plants later, and potentially reach the fruit before other hungry animals. I have to stress that there’s no evidence I’m aware of to support this explanation, but it’s an intriguing possibility.

 

Taking it a step further, research has also shown that gardening can have mental and physical health benefits for older adults. So whether you buy your flowers or grow them, know that you’re taking a joyful step toward greater well-being in later life.

There’s something joyful about a mini time warp — maybe it’s revisiting a vacation spot you once loved or maybe it’s a getaway with friends where you banish talk of present-day concerns.

5. Try a time warp 

In 1981, Harvard psychologist Ellen Langer ran an experiment with a group of men in their 70s that has come to be known as “the counterclockwise study.” For five days, they lived inside a monastery that had been designed to look just like it was 1959. There were vintage radios and black-and-white TVs instead of cassette players and VHS. The books that lined the shelves were ones that were popular at the time. The magazines, TV shows, clothes and music were all throwbacks to that exact period.

 

But these men weren’t just living in a time warp. They also had to participate. They were treated like they were in their 50s, rather than their 70s. They had to carry their own bags. They discussed the news and sports of 22 years earlier in the present tense. And to preserve the illusion, there were no mirrors and no photos, except of their younger selves.

 

At the end of five days, the men stood taller, had greater manual dexterity, and even better vision. Independent judges said they looked younger. A touch football game broke out among the group (some of whom had previously walked with a cane) as they waited for the bus home. Langer was hesitant to publish her findings, concerned that the unusual method and small sample size might be hard for the academic community to accept. But in 2010, a BBC show recreated the experiment with aging celebrities to similar effect. Langer’s subsequent research has led her to conclude that we can prime our minds to feel younger, which in turn can make our bodies follow suit.

 

While it might be difficult to recreate Langer’s study in our own lives, I think there’s something joyful about a mini time warp. Maybe it’s revisiting a vacation spot you once loved, and steeping yourself in memories from an earlier time. Maybe it’s a getaway with friends where you banish all talk of present-day concerns. Maybe it’s finding a book or a stack of old magazines from back then and reading them while listening to throwback tunes.

 

It’s also worth noting that a control group from the counterclockwise study who simply reminisced about their youth, without using the present tense, did not experience the same dramatic results — so these “mini time warps” may be more for fun than for tangible benefit. But even if you don’t turn back the clock, checking back in with your younger self can be a way to rediscover parts of yourself that you may have lost touch with and bring them with you as you age.

 

6. Maximize mobility 

Exercise is often touted as a way to stay healthy and vibrant at any age, but one finding that makes it particularly relevant as we get older is that movement has been shown in studies to increase the size of the hippocampus, a part of the brain that plays a vital role in learning and memory. This is important because the hippocampus shrinks as we age, which can lead to memory deficits and increased risk of dementia. In one study of older adults, exercise increased hippocampus size by 2 percent, which is equivalent to reversing one to two years of age-related decline.

 

In addition to its cognitive effects, movement itself can be a source of joy. The ability to swim, hike, dance and play can be conduits to joy well into our older years. When I struggle to get motivated to exercise, I often think about my future self and how investing in my mobility now can help preserve range of motion and minimize repetitive stress injuries later. Simply put: you have one body, and it has to last your whole life. The more you do now to care for it, the more freedom you’ll have to do the things you love late in life.

As we age, we have a choice: We can either cling to the world as we shaped it and refuse to engage in the new world that kids are creating, or we can adapt to their world and remain curious, active participants.

7. Refeather your nest

Once you start looking at negative tropes around aging, you start seeing more and more of them. Take the phrase “empty nest,” which carries strong connotations of loss and deprivation. Though I’m at the stage where my nest suddenly just became quite full, I love the idea of reframing the “empty nest” into something more joyful.

One of my readers, Lee-Anne Ragan, offers up as a joyful process in the wake of children going off to start their own independent lives. She points out that the idea of an empty nest suggests that there’s nothing left, while refeathering takes a more ecological lens, imagining a kind of regeneration that happens as the home, and the family, transforms into something new. A refeathered nest is a place of possibility, creativity and delight.

 

8. Stay up on tech

While technology is often blamed for feelings of isolation, some studies show that for older adults, being technologically facile can offer a boost to well-being. One reason is that internet use may serve a predictor of social connection more broadly, and social connection is one of the most important contributors toward mental health and well-being throughout life, but especially in old age. Other studies suggest that when older adults lack the skills to be able to use technology effectively, it leads to a greater sense of disconnection and disempowerment and that offering training to older adults on technology can promote cognitive function, interpersonal connection and a sense of control and independence.

 

I’ve often been tempted, when a radically new app or device comes out, to say “That’s for the kids,” and ignore it. With free time so scarce, exploring new tech feels less appealing than digging into one of the books piled up on my nightstand. And anyway, unplugging is supposed to be good for us, right? But technology shapes the world we live in, and those technologies that seem new and fringy in the moment often end up in the mainstream, influencing the ways we communicate, work and access even basic services.

 

I remember trying to teach my grandmother how to use email. She was someone who never wanted to bother anyone, and I thought that email’s asynchronous communication would be good for her. Instead of calling, she could just send a note and know that she wasn’t interrupting anyone. She tried, but she struggled to learn it. She had stopped caring about technology long before that, and the leap to figure out how to use a computer was too great. Small choices not to engage with a new technology don’t matter much in the moment, but once you get a few steps down the road to disconnection, it can feel intimidating to try to plug back in.

 

Staying engaged with new technologies doesn’t have to be a burden. It might simply mean saying yes when a niece or nephew invites you play Minecraft or opening a TikTok account just to check it out. You don’t have to master every new app or tool, but being comfortable with new developments can help you ensure you don’t end up feeling helpless or blindsided when the tech you rely on every day changes.

 

I think a lot about something psychologist Alison Gopnik said when I interviewed her for the Joy Makeover a couple of years ago. She said that each new generation breaks paradigms and overturns old ways of doing things as a matter of course. This isn’t gratuitous — it’s how we move forward as a society. Each generation of kids will remake the world, and from this we’ll gain all kinds of new discoveries. So as we age, we have a choice: we can either cling to the world as we shaped it and refuse to engage in the new world our kids’ and grandkids’ generations are creating, or we can adapt to their world and remain curious, active participants in it.

 

This to me is at the heart of aging joyfully. Our goal shouldn’t be to cling to youth as we get older, but to keep our joy alive by tending our inner child throughout our days while also nurturing our connection to the changing world. In doing so, we balance wisdom with wonder, confidence with curiosity and depth with delight.

This post was first published on Ingrid Fetell Lee’s site, The Aesthetics of Joy.

 

Watch her TED Talk now:

 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ingrid Fetell Lee is the founder of the blog The Aesthetics of Joy and was formerly design director at the global innovation firm IDEO.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by GachiMuchi

[Steve5380]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:36 PM, GachiMuchi said:

 

The only way to age and be deemed acceptable is to have lucky genes or to conceal your battles against time underneath a practiced smile.

 

 

It seems that, fortunately,  the influence of genetics in the way we age is small.  Maybe as small as a 20%.

 

Scientists are researching an interesting quality in the functioning of our bodies:  LONGEVITY.  

What contributes to our longevity, or lack of it.  And it seems that JOY plays an important part in it.

And it is not only how long our heart will tick,  but also how long we live with good quality of life.

I might shortly elaborate some more on the subject, which is of much interest to me, now trying to last as long as possible.  

 

[Guest Reality]

I have never doubt a person individual's power and resilence to age gracefully.  It boils down to places, environment and a whole lot of external factors to include political, financial, relationship  that may inhibit's a person's ability to do so.   The above is simply "self-richment" concept and theorically and ideally to disregard uncontrollable factors to make it sounds hunky-dory.  

 

For instance, a citizen of Denmark may live a completely different world, as compared to Singapore citizens and it determined how each country's citizen ages due to different priority charted out for these countries. With same population size and greying nation, why are the Dane much happier despite having to live under gloomy weather and shorter daylight?  Why are Singaporeans much unhappier despite sunhine throughout the year?  You get the picture.

 

When aging, I often see beyond the controlled factors within myself.  I like to know and understand what I cannot change, who is controlling my life, whom do I lived with, where am I in the environment, what is my role in the bigger scheme of collective existence among the entire human races.  Even a very difficult and nasty neighbour or narcissistic family members can drain your entire soul during the process of aging regardless how well you planned to age.  Or suddently, there is a change of legislation that wiped up your spending ability or intruded into your privacy, at worse stiffled your ability to voice displeasure or opening of borders resulted in your ability to move freely without fearing of being knocked down by some moving equipments.   Psycholoigcally, it took a toll of your well beings....anxiety sets in that leads to depression, health suffered as a result and then......lead to every imaginable outcome.

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:37 PM, Guest Reality said:

I have never doubt a person individual's power and resilence to age gracefully.  It boils down to places, environment and a whole lot of external factors to include political, financial, relationship  that may inhibit's a person's ability to do so.   The above is simply "self-richment" concept and theorically and ideally to disregard uncontrollable factors to make it sounds hunky-dory.  

 

For instance, a citizen of Denmark may live a completely different world, as compared to Singapore citizens and it determined how each country's citizen ages due to different priority charted out for these countries. With same population size and greying nation, why are the Dane much happier despite having to live under gloomy weather and shorter daylight?  Why are Singaporeans much unhappier despite sunhine throughout the year?  You get the picture.

 

When aging, I often see beyond the controlled factors within myself.  I like to know and understand what I cannot change, who is controlling my life, whom do I lived with, where am I in the environment, what is my role in the bigger scheme of collective existence among the entire human races.  Even a very difficult and nasty neighbour or narcissistic family members can drain your entire soul during the process of aging regardless how well you planned to age.  Or suddently, there is a change of legislation that wiped up your spending ability or intruded into your privacy, at worse stiffled your ability to voice displeasure or opening of borders resulted in your ability to move freely without fearing of being knocked down by some moving equipments.   Psycholoigcally, it took a toll of your well beings....anxiety sets in that leads to depression, health suffered as a result and then......lead to every imaginable outcome.

 

 

You think that the ability of a person to age gracefully can be inhibited by environment and a lot of external factors? 

 

You are right. It CAN.  But it does not have to be a MUST.  Yes, beyond our controlled factors within there are uncontrolled factors outside.  But still within, we can control our REACTION to the uncontrolled factors.  For example, the Danes with their gloomy weather and shorter daylight, which they cannot do anything about it, can enjoy very pleasant indoor activities, social gatherings, while it is gloomy outside.  I personally have adapted to my constraints being home all the time instead of enjoying nice sex tourism throughout S.E. Asia, by increasing my intellectual activities (is posting on BW 'intellectual'?) like cultivation of music, a hobby of 'electronics',  physical exercises at home, etc.

 

The first step to eliminate such inhibitions is to become AWARE.  Am I being disturbed by nasty neighbors or narcissistic family members?  Am I feeling frustrated by legislative, governmental constraints on my personal freedom?  Am I being restricted by some lack of functionality due to old age?  Has my income $$ been drastically cut? 

 

The next step is to ADAPT.  I can ignore my nasty neighbors or, if necessary, be likewise nasty to them.  I can ignore pesky family members, their voices coming into one ear and out the other.  I don't need the sex tourism, I have plenty of good porn.  I don't need to go to entertainment venues,  I can entertain myself very well at home, the Internet and YouTube are nearly inexhaustible.  I can live with less money cultivating frugality, which can be satisfying too. 

 

And finally, we learn to do all this adaptation with a smile in our face,  and if we are gay and single, we can dedicate most of our energies to ourselves to cultivate our health and happiness. Or if we have a partner,  we can dedicate most of our energies to mutually cultivate our health and happiness.  

.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:33 PM, Steve5380 said:

I can ignore my nasty neighbors or, if necessary, be likewise nasty to them.

Like you are with other posters here, perhaps? 😃 🤣

 

On 9/27/2021 at 9:33 PM, Steve5380 said:

I don't need the sex tourism, I have plenty of good porn.

Well, that's a big change! Given that so many of your posts are about the joys of your sex tourism in Asia, is this a result of ageing, perhaps? Oops, ageing gracefully?  😃 🤣 

[Guest Mind Analyst]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:42 AM, InBangkok said:

Well, that's a big change! Given that so many of your posts are about the joys of your sex tourism in Asia, is this a result of ageing, perhaps? Oops, ageing gracefully?  😃 🤣 

It is pandemic. I don't think he has changed a bit, but simply buying time watching porn until Asia is reopened😁

[Steve5380]

On 9/28/2021 at 4:28 AM, Guest Mind Analyst said:

It is pandemic. I don't think he has changed a bit, but simply buying time watching porn until Asia is reopened😁

 

Thank you for your clarification.  Of course @InBangkok knows this too, but he cannot resist any opportunity to write me a nasty post 

 

On 9/27/2021 at 10:42 PM, InBangkok said:

 

Like you are with other posters here, perhaps? 😃 🤣

 

 

I don't need to be nasty to my neighbors.  We hardly see each other, and besides, they are nice, friendly people.  I wish you were too...

Posters here can be quite nasty, aggressive,  and you can recognize yourself among them.

[Guest Wrinkly]

Aging gracefully is when people learn to accept the beauty of our wrinkles.

[Steve5380]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:47 AM, Guest Wrinkly said:

Aging gracefully is when people learn to accept the beauty of our wrinkles.

 

Graceful aging occurs when wrinkles have little importance compared to the gift of being free of illnesses and disabilities. 

[Guest Oh Really.]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:03 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Graceful aging occurs when wrinkles have little importance

Coming out from the mouth of someone who cannot resist his regular dose of Botox....🙄

[Steve5380]

On 9/28/2021 at 7:29 PM, Guest Oh Really. said:

Coming out from the mouth of someone who cannot resist his regular dose of Botox....🙄

 

You seem to have a problem with my Botox...  I will give you an example:

 

If you have a well maintained good looking car,  you want it to be impeccably shiny and polished.

If you have a beaten up lemon who barely moves on wobbly wheels, you don't care at all about the paint job. 

[Guest Caught]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, Steve5380 said:

If you have a well maintained good looking car,  you want it to be impeccably shiny and polished.

 

 

On 9/29/2021 at 6:03 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Graceful aging occurs when wrinkles have little importance

A good example of contradition there.  

[InBangkok]

On 9/28/2021 at 7:12 PM, Steve5380 said:

Thank you for your clarification.  Of course @InBangkok knows this too, but he cannot resist any opportunity to write me a nasty post 

 

I don't need to be nasty to my neighbors.  We hardly see each other, and besides, they are nice, friendly people.  I wish you were too...

Posters here can be quite nasty, aggressive,  and you can recognize yourself among them.

What a hypocrite! @Steve5380 writes endless posts that are seemingly serious but when queried he asks why it was not obvious that they were written with humour or tongue in cheek. This happens many dozens of times. Yet in 99% of those occasions he never inserts an emoji or an LOL to indicate to the reader that they are anything but serious.

 

I write two short posts with not just one but two amusing emojis against each to indicate they are tongue in cheek - and he goes ballistic and complains that they are nasty and aggressive. But then he does like to forget his own postings that he does not wish to remember. 🤣

 

Oh, and let's not forget that in order to keep his "car" shiny @Steve5380has also told us several times about his face lifts and hair transplants. So much for ageing gracefully! 🤣 🤣 Note to @Steve5380 That is a joke. Understand?

Edited September 29, 2021 by InBangkok

[Guest Guest]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, Steve5380 said:

If you have a well maintained good looking car,  you want it to be impeccably shiny and polished.

If you have a beaten up lemon who barely moves on wobbly wheels, you don't care at all about the paint job. 

 

Considering how infrequently you shower yourself, I guess you must be a beaten up lemon who barely moves on wobbly wheels. 

 

 

 

[Guest Sharing thoughts]

That elderly man of advance age is defeated, hands down.  Let's move on to talk about aging gracefully.   Here is my take that individual varies....

 

Some people felt working up to their riped age of 70s,80s or even 90s are a form of graceful aging.  They cannot stop working, otherwise their heart will stop.

 

Another type loves to be surrounded by every living creatures - grandchildren, dogs, birds, fishes and what have you, to feel the joy of living with all these things

 

Others love to eat and eat and eat.  They don't eat to live,  but live to eat.  You will see them scouting around the island looking for exotic and top notch meal in the form of adventure.  They were inspired the moment they woke up and thought, where can I find good food today.

 

Personally, I felt the best of aging is to change environement completely.  Leave behind people or places you knew (and didn't like), relocate to places that spark joy and start a new chapter.

 

I would stay clear of earthly things, like not listening to news, politics, too much talking sounds irritates me and then live with no cares about the world outside.  There are so many things to do internatlly without being too involved with outside world.  You don't need to plan, those activities come naturally. 

 

Singapore also have a fair bit of Zombies, they aged "gracefully" spending all their time moving aimlessly, no agenda in mind except staring at asser by as a form of whiling away their time.

 

There are also indoor graceful aging and outdoor graceful aging.  It all boils down to personality that suits them.

 

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:05 PM, InBangkok said:

What a hypocrite! @Steve5380 writes endless posts that are seemingly serious but when queried he asks why it was not obvious that they were written with humour or tongue in cheek. This happens many dozens of times. Yet in 99% of those occasions he never inserts an emoji or an LOL to indicate to the reader that they are anything but serious.

 

I write two short posts with not just one but two amusing emojis against each to indicate they are tongue in cheek - and he goes ballistic and complains that they are nasty and aggressive. But then he does like to forget his own postings that he does not wish to remember. 🤣

 

Oh, and let's not forget that in order to keep his "car" shiny @Steve5380has also told us several times about his face lifts and hair transplants. So much for ageing gracefully! 🤣 🤣 Note to @Steve5380 That is a joke. Understand?

 

You are the hypocrite, addicted to distort facts about those you dislike. 

 

I write most of the time with some humor,  because humor is part of my happiness.  But I don't try to justify the nasty and aggressive claiming that it is humor, like you did. 

 

Plastic surgery is in no way in conflict with aging gracefully.  It is an OPTION for those who don't get to have heart surgery, or abdominal surgery, or brain surgery. The purpose is to offer a better look for others,  others who despise the look of old faces because it inspires in them the FEAR of old age. 

[Guest Freaked!]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:05 PM, Steve5380 said:

Plastic surgery offer a better look for others,  others who despise the look of old faces because the FEAR of old age. 

You truly scare the shit out of me.  I am afraid of getting old now.

[Steve5380]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:52 AM, Guest Sharing thoughts said:

That elderly man of advance age is defeated, hands down.  Let's move on to talk about aging gracefully.   Here is my take that individual varies....

 

Some people felt working up to their riped age of 70s,80s or even 90s are a form of graceful aging.  They cannot stop working, otherwise their heart will stop.

 

Another type loves to be surrounded by every living creatures - grandchildren, dogs, birds, fishes and what have you, to feel the joy of living with all these things

 

Others love to eat and eat and eat.  They don't eat to live,  but live to eat.  You will see them scouting around the island looking for exotic and top notch meal in the form of adventure.  They were inspired the moment they woke up and thought, where can I find good food today.

 

Personally, I felt the best of aging is to change environement completely.  Leave behind people or places you knew (and didn't like), relocate to places that spark joy and start a new chapter.

 

I would stay clear of earthly things, like not listening to news, politics, too much talking sounds irritates me and then live with no cares about the world outside.  There are so many things to do internatlly without being too involved with outside world.  You don't need to plan, those activities come naturally. 

 

Singapore also have a fair bit of Zombies, they aged "gracefully" spending all their time moving aimlessly, no agenda in mind except staring at asser by as a form of whiling away their time.

 

There are also indoor graceful aging and outdoor graceful aging.  It all boils down to personality that suits them.

 

 

You are so wrong thinking that elderly men (OR of advanced age?) are defeated.  This can be proven to be a falsity, hands down.

 

To age gracefully is to age with optimism, enjoyment of life, happiness.

 

IF your idea of best aging is to change your environment completely,  you must have a history of unhappiness in your current environment. 

 

To try to stay away from "earthly things" is also a sign of a life badly lived.  Having to live on earth, why do we need to be disgusted by earthly things?  You should see it differently:  in the senior years after retirement, there is plenty of time to get interested in these "earthly things" that had to be ignored while trying to make a living. And then we can analyze and learn many realities of life following the society in general, its politics,  and gain experience and wisdom.  This can be a very positive cultivation of our spirit, and give answers to some existential questions while gaining satisfaction to not know the answers to others,  all this leading to a peaceful end of life.

[Steve5380]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:18 AM, Guest Freaked! said:

You truly scare the shit out of me.  I am afraid of getting old now.

 

But...  but plastic surgery is AN OPTION!  The most optional of surgeries.  You may not need any if you fall in love with your aging appearance later on!

 

Try to not get afraid. Fear is a stress that can be negative.  But if you have to get afraid, do it of the surgeries that come with illnesses, and so try to live as healthy as possible.

[InBangkok]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:20 PM, Steve5380 said:

To age gracefully is to age with optimism, enjoyment of life, happiness.

Then why go to the bother and huge expense of all the cosmetic procedures? There are plenty of men in their late 70s/early 80s who do not need to spend US$10,000 plus more annually in order to age gracefully and look good. Besides, what do you do when that facelift starts once again to sag as inevitably it does as a result of passing years and gravity? And when to the face lift you have to add a neck lift, hand and arm lifts - or whatever these other procedures are  called. Have more expensive surgery done? It reminds me a little of the Duchess of Windsor (the divorcee who married King Edward VIII of England who then gave up his throne to marry her and lead a life of infinite boredom). As one of her relatives remarked, she had had so many facelifts that by the time of her last years she could hardly smile for fear her face would crack. And her hands and arms were so wrinkled they looked like they belonged to a hen. 🤣 🤣 

 

Note to @Steve5380who seems unable to differentiate between something serious and something humorous. Although said in jest, that story is perfectly true! Haha.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 9:05 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Plastic surgery is in no way in conflict with aging gracefully.  It is an OPTION for those who don't get to have heart surgery, or abdominal surgery, or brain surgery. The purpose is to offer a better look for others,  others who despise the look of old faces because it inspires in them the FEAR of old age. 

Now that is a new theory, or rather two theories. So, guys, @Steve5380advises you to avoid heart surgery, abdominal surgery and brain surgery and you can have plastic surgery instead. Take note! But it is a totally false analogy. As if people have a choice to avoid the surgeries you mention. Illness is not a choice - it happens, in case you had not realised. You may look a picture of perfect health because of your plastic surgeries. My friend in Sydney whom I had known for 35 years did all the right things in terms of exercise, diet, outlook on life and so on that you recommend. That did not stop him failing ill with pancreatic cancer cancer three years ago. This is one of the most difficult cancers to diagnose and once it is discovered most people have just a 5% chance of survival. Sadly, he died. For him, there was no OPTION! He was 64 year old.

 

As for those who despise old faces, I have yet to meet any. After all, don't most of us have - or have had in their lives - ageing grandparents or even great grandparents. Did their wrinkles and faces in general inspire anything other than love? I expect you no doubt mean the fear an old wrinkly face would engender among young slim Asians in a gay sauna 🤣 

Edited September 30, 2021 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

On 9/30/2021 at 12:13 AM, InBangkok said:

 

Then why go to the bother and huge expense of all the cosmetic procedures? There are plenty of men in their late 70s/early 80s who do not need to spend US$10,000 plus more annually in order to age gracefully and look good. Besides, what do you do when that facelift starts once again to sag as inevitably it does as a result of passing years and gravity? And when to the face lift you have to add a neck lift, hand and arm lifts - or whatever these other procedures are  called. Have more expensive surgery done? It reminds me a little of the Duchess of Windsor (the divorcee who married King Edward VIII of England who then gave up his throne to marry her and lead a life of infinite boredom). As one of her relatives remarked, she had had so many facelifts that by the time of her last years she could hardly smile for fear her face would crack. And her hands and arms were so wrinkled they looked like they belonged to a hen. 🤣 🤣 

 

 

Your message is cute but it is completely wrong.  (If I had written it, you would call me a LIAR,  but I am a better judge of character and you are simply wrong, ignorant.

 

$10,000+ dollars a year in cosmetic procedures?  You must be thinking of this famous actress, who one day appeared with this nick on the chin, and it turned out that it was her navel that had been stretched up from so many face lifts   (so that you don't think that I'm serious).  Or you are thinking about men who binge eat and then try to get rid of their fat through liposuction.

 

Cosmetic procedures are to be used to get results that cannot be obtained by other means.  They should be used sparingly, because when well done they last a very, very long time.  And they should be used when the rest of the body is healthy and in such a good shape that it is worth to improve it a little more.

 

I had my first plastic surgery in 1997 to remove bags under my eyes that had formed from so much work.  This eyelid surgery got rid of the bags, and they haven't returned since, in the 24 years!   Hair transplants also last a life time, because the transplanted hair is taken from an area that genetically keeps them from falling out.  Face lifts are equally long lasting, since 1 G of gravity is nothing for a good skin.  It has been so many years since my only cosmetic procedure is botox injections twice a year, and I can afford this perfectly well  

 

On 9/30/2021 at 12:13 AM, InBangkok said:

 

Now that is a new theory, or rather two theories. So, guys, @Steve5380advises you to avoid heart surgery, abdominal surgery and brain surgery and you can have plastic surgery instead. Take note! But it is a totally false analogy. As if people have a choice to avoid the surgeries you mention. Illness is not a choice - it happens, in case you had not realised. You may look a picture of perfect health because of your plastic surgeries. My friend in Sydney whom I had known for 35 years did all the right things in terms of exercise, diet, outlook on life and so on that you recommend. That did not stop him failing ill with pancreatic cancer cancer three years ago. This is one of the most difficult cancers to diagnose and once it is discovered most people have just a 5% chance of survival. Sadly, he died. For him, there was no OPTION! He was 64 year old.

 

As for those who despise old faces, I have yet to meet any. After all, don't most of us have - or have had in their lives - ageing grandparents or even great grandparents. Did their wrinkles and faces in general inspire anything other than love? I expect you no doubt mean the fear an old wrinkly face would engender among young slim Asians in a gay sauna 🤣 

 

 

I never gave advice to avoid standard surgeries so as to have plastic surgery instead. 

 

Here it is not ignorance what you display,  but simply deception.  (Or is it defective comprehension plus stupidity?)  So I can say with confidence that you are LYING.  And you get even muddier with your statement that "illness is not a choice".  Are you posting as a sage?   And plastic surgery does not guarantee a picture of perfect health.  At most, it gives a picture of a face or other body parts in a better condition that is usually found in younger people.

 

I am sorry for your friend.  But his story is in no way a testimonial that good living habits are futile.  But... you are free to think this way and continue with your vices.  You should read my new thread about David Sinclair, the longevity expert, and try to understand the interesting ways science is finding to extend our healthy life into what used to be "old age".

 

Yes, we all have had aging parents and grandparents. But this does not mean that wrinkles in old faces inspire love.  If you would see me with wrinkles, you would not feel love for me.  But this will never happen. If you ever see me, instead of love you will feel envy because I may look younger than you do.  (but this not only by my face, but my full persona) 

[Guest Guest]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:05 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

You are the hypocrite, addicted to distort facts about those you dislike. 

 

I write most of the time with some humor,  because humor is part of my happiness.  But I don't try to justify the nasty and aggressive claiming that it is humor, like you did. 

 

Plastic surgery is in no way in conflict with aging gracefully.  It is an OPTION for those who don't get to have heart surgery, or abdominal surgery, or brain surgery. The purpose is to offer a better look for others,  others who despise the look of old faces because it inspires in them the FEAR of old age. 

 

On 9/29/2021 at 10:20 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

You are so wrong thinking that elderly men (OR of advanced age?) are defeated.  This can be proven to be a falsity, hands down.

 

To age gracefully is to age with optimism, enjoyment of life, happiness.

 

IF your idea of best aging is to change your environment completely,  you must have a history of unhappiness in your current environment. 

 

To try to stay away from "earthly things" is also a sign of a life badly lived.  Having to live on earth, why do we need to be disgusted by earthly things?  You should see it differently:  in the senior years after retirement, there is plenty of time to get interested in these "earthly things" that had to be ignored while trying to make a living. And then we can analyze and learn many realities of life following the society in general, its politics,  and gain experience and wisdom.  This can be a very positive cultivation of our spirit, and give answers to some existential questions while gaining satisfaction to not know the answers to others,  all this leading to a peaceful end of life.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:59 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Your message is cute but it is completely wrong.  (If I had written it, you would call me a LIAR,  but I am a better judge of character and you are simply wrong, ignorant.

 

$10,000+ dollars a year in cosmetic procedures?  You must be thinking of this famous actress, who one day appeared with this nick on the chin, and it turned out that it was her navel that had been stretched up from so many face lifts   (so that you don't think that I'm serious).  Or you are thinking about men who binge eat and then try to get rid of their fat through liposuction.

 

Cosmetic procedures are to be used to get results that cannot be obtained by other means.  They should be used sparingly, because when well done they last a very, very long time.  And they should be used when the rest of the body is healthy and in such a good shape that it is worth to improve it a little more.

 

I had my first plastic surgery in 1997 to remove bags under my eyes that had formed from so much work.  This eyelid surgery got rid of the bags, and they haven't returned since, in the 24 years!   Hair transplants also last a life time, because the transplanted hair is taken from an area that genetically keeps them from falling out.  Face lifts are equally long lasting, since 1 G of gravity is nothing for a good skin.  It has been so many years since my only cosmetic procedure is botox injections twice a year, and I can afford this perfectly well  

 

 

I never gave advice to avoid standard surgeries so as to have plastic surgery instead. 

 

Here it is not ignorance what you display,  but simply deception.  (Or is it defective comprehension plus stupidity?)  So I can say with confidence that you are LYING.  And you get even muddier with your statement that "illness is not a choice".  Are you posting as a sage?   And plastic surgery does not guarantee a picture of perfect health.  At most, it gives a picture of a face or other body parts in a better condition that is usually found in younger people.

 

I am sorry for your friend.  But his story is in no way a testimonial that good living habits are futile.  But... you are free to think this way and continue with your vices.  You should read my new thread about David Sinclair, the longevity expert, and try to understand the interesting ways science is finding to extend our healthy life into what used to be "old age".

 

Yes, we all have had aging parents and grandparents. But this does not mean that wrinkles in old faces inspire love.  If you would see me with wrinkles, you would not feel love for me.  But this will never happen. If you ever see me, instead of love you will feel envy because I may look younger than you do.  (but this not only by my face, but my full persona) 

 

I fail to understand how such arguing posts can possibly point towards anyone aging "JOYFULLY"? Maybe people who likes to argue so much should just go get some pet fish, so that at least the tank and the water can help buffer the fish from whatever noise that these argumentative old men wants to make. Or better still, grow some plants which may just thrive on their saliva, provided that the plants don't melt from their venous spit first? 

[Steve5380]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:16 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

I fail to understand how such arguing posts can possibly point towards anyone aging "JOYFULLY"? Maybe people who likes to argue so much should just go get some pet fish, so that at least the tank and the water can help buffer the fish from whatever noise that these argumentative old men wants to make. Or better still, grow some plants which may just thrive on their saliva, provided that the plants don't melt from their venous spit first? 

 

 

I always like to help the handicapped. So maybe I can help solve this big mystery of WHY you fail to understand.  And why this is not obvious to you.

 

You fail to understand because you have no BRAIN. 

There where your head should be, you have a big PUMPKIN.  

.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:05 PM, Steve5380 said:

I write most of the time with some humor,  because humor is part of my happiness

Yet, unlike other readers you make a conscious decision not to indicate in threads when you are being humorous and when you are being serious. Since you obviously like to be happy, do you seriously believe anyone considers calling other posters, "nasty", "stupid" "ignorant" "an abomination" and comments that "are imbecilic" and all that crap is one of your ways to find happiness? How very quirky and strange! But as you will not mark those posts that are humorous and those which are serious contributions to a thread, you truly are a simple form of Delphic oracle. (Look it up on Google!) You merely assume that readers will know.

 

Well, perhaps it will come as a surprise, but many readers  have not the faintest clue whether you are being serious or being humorous. When you make patently idiotic comments like comparing attendance in an Opera House to hear an opera with the experience of being in a sauna and then double down on that in post after post after post (remember I can quote you!), only when other posters point out how ridiculous this statement is do you backtrack and say something ike "oh sorry guys, didn't you realise I was being humorous?" The fact is that when you cannot wriggle out of something serious you have said and your doubling down does not work, your escape is you were being humorous!  Such a weird view of a chat room!

 

On 9/30/2021 at 9:59 PM, Steve5380 said:

$10,000+ dollars a year in cosmetic procedures?

You do not even read other posters' comments! That is NOT what I wrote. As if anyone would spend $10,000 annually on face lifts etc.! What I did write was US$10,000 " plus more annually". The "more annually" referred to your regular annual botox injections which you have to make you look younger. I wonder if they will still work when your octogenarian body restarts its love of sex tourism. Remember you wrote this -and this is a direct word for word quote from November 17, 2020, "Once vaccinated against the Covid, I will rush to Singapore and take a 10 entries pass to Keybox and Hook Club.  Then I travel to KL to frequent several times Mandi Manda, Otot Otot, Kakiku,  before flying to Bangkok and making my rounds of Babylon, Chakran, Sauna Mania, Farose II, Dejavu, Male Box,  all without risk of getting infected with Covid." Would you like a wheelchair? 😀 😀

Edited October 1, 2021 by InBangkok

[Guest huh?]

If aging joyfully is the scenarios, of the above two sword fighting elderly men,  I tell you  I want to remain young forever.

[Steve5380]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:58 AM, Guest huh? said:

If aging joyfully is the scenarios, of the above two sword fighting elderly men,  I tell you  I want to remain young forever.

 

Hopefully you will realize one day that sword fighting and jesting is being young of spirit, something you want to be forever  

[Steve5380]

On 9/30/2021 at 9:55 PM, InBangkok said:

 

Well, perhaps it will come as a surprise, but many readers  have not the faintest clue whether you are being serious or being humorous. When you make patently idiotic comments like comparing attendance in an Opera House to hear an opera with the experience of being in a sauna and then double down on that in post after post after post (remember I can quote you!), only when other posters point out how ridiculous this statement is do you backtrack and say something ike "oh sorry guys, didn't you realise I was being humorous?" The fact is that when you cannot wriggle out of something serious you have said and your doubling down does not work, your escape is you were being humorous!  Such a weird view of a chat room!

 

 

"Many readers" is not the case.  It is YOU who does not have the faintest clue whether I am serious or humorous.  Just the other days you took so serious my suggestion that Biden consoles Macron in his lost submarine deal by buying some bottles of wine from him, so serious that you made some numbers to prove that the money in bottles of wine would not reach the money in the submarine deal!  And you are so upset that I compared the attendance to an opera with the attendance to a gay sauna! (without realizing that the two can have many things in common)

 

Good humor is written for people who have good sense of humor. One of the classic French writers I like, Voltaire, wrote with very smart humor, but you won't find in his books any emoji or italics or "ha ha" to indicate the presence of humor.  Good comedians on TV and elsewhere say the most humorous things with a serious, straight face,  and we break in laughter. Good humor in text is conveyed by its context, and does not be brought out with underscores, italics, capital letters, colors, or today with emojis.  At least this is the case among educated people.

 

Hopefully one day you will be able to improve your personality of a dry, somber, serious complainer guy  by developing a sense of humor  

 

 

On 9/30/2021 at 9:55 PM, InBangkok said:

 

You do not even read other posters' comments! That is NOT what I wrote. As if anyone would spend $10,000 annually on face lifts etc.! What I did write was US$10,000 " plus more annually". The "more annually" referred to your regular annual botox injections which you have to make you look younger. I wonder if they will still work when your octogenarian body restarts its love of sex tourism. Remember you wrote this -and this is a direct word for word quote from November 17, 2020, "Once vaccinated against the Covid, I will rush to Singapore and take a 10 entries pass to Keybox and Hook Club.  Then I travel to KL to frequent several times Mandi Manda, Otot Otot, Kakiku,  before flying to Bangkok and making my rounds of Babylon, Chakran, Sauna Mania, Farose II, Dejavu, Male Box,  all without risk of getting infected with Covid." Would you like a wheelchair? 😀 😀

 

What is it that is not?  You wrote: 

 

"There are plenty of men in their late 70s/early 80s who do not need to spend US$10,000 plus more annually in order to age gracefully "

 

I think that here you need a lesson of English, even if you don't like these.  "to spend US$10,000 plus more annually" is AMBIGUOUS.  On a first reading, one interprets that the annual spending is $10,000 plus more.  But, if you meant:  "to spend US$10,000  ,  plus more annually"  you have to use a comma.  This is one reason commas have been invented.   And now with this your interpretation...

 

you make such a big FUSS over the cost of Botox.  How petty!   What you spend in just one of your dumb trips far away to sit somewhere and listen to some music for two hours, is probably at least twice of what I spend in Botox in a year.  And I can listen to the same music,  possibly interpreted by better musicians, on videos that give a clearer view of them, and better quality of sound than you do hear, and do this sitting in my comfortable Herman Miller chair while munching on quality pizza, a bowl of my lentils, or chocolate ice cream!

. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:04 AM, Steve5380 said:

"Many readers" is not the case. . . .

 

Good humor is written for people who have good sense of humor. One of the classic French writers I like, Voltaire, wrote with very smart humor, but you won't find in his books any emoji or italics or "ha ha" to indicate the presence of humor.  Good comedians on TV and elsewhere say the most humorous things with a serious, straight face,  and we break in laughter. Good humor in text is conveyed by its context, and does not be brought out with underscores, italics, capital letters, colors, or today with emojis.  At least this is the case among educated people.

Many readers? Absolutely untrue. On what basis do you make such an absurd deduction? You expect that every reader can see into your mind and decide what you write is humorous and what is serious? That is just plain crazy! Oh, and by the way, to compare yourself with Voltaire illustrates a degree of paranoia that is just laughable. Yes, he wrote very smart humour as did many other authors throughout history. Personally I love the plays of Aristophanes and many of the essays written by Addison and Steele. You definitely are not one of them. Voltaire would never have written about Opera Houses being similar to gay saunas or eating pizzas during an opera performance. You wrote both! (And recall, I can quote you on everything I write about).

 

And, since it has seemed to pass your notice, Voltaire did not write on gay chat rooms and there were no such things as emojis in his day. Readers in his day bought his early books precisely for their elegant writing and their wit. Elegance is notably absent from your so called humour which is far from being witty. So, yet again you are merely doubling down on an issue you raise because you simply cannot justify it. Your true intentions are rarely conveyed by some of what you write and the manner of how you write it.

 

And it is so funny you giving lessons on English! You who have written posts German and who have written twice objecting to Singaporean members writing posts in Chinese because you can not read them. This chat room is based in Singapore, not in Houston Texas.

Edited October 2, 2021 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:37 AM, InBangkok said:

Many readers? Absolutely untrue. On what basis do you make such an absurd deduction? You expect that every reader can see into your mind and decide what you write is humorous and what is serious? That is just plain crazy! Oh, and by the way, to compare yourself with Voltaire illustrates a degree of paranoia that is just laughable. Yes, he wrote very smart humour as did many other authors throughout history. Personally I love the plays of Aristophanes and many of the essays written by Addison and Steele. You definitely are not one of them. Voltaire would never have written about Opera Houses being similar to gay saunas or eating pizzas during an opera performance. You wrote both! (And recall, I can quote you on everything I write about).

 

And, since it has seemed to pass your notice, Voltaire did not write on gay chat rooms and there were no such things as emojis in his day. Readers in his day bought his early books precisely for their elegant writing and their wit. Elegance is notably absent from your so called humour which is far from being witty. So, yet again you are merely doubling down on an issue you raise because you simply cannot justify it. Your true intentions are rarely conveyed by some of what you write and the manner of how you write it.

 

And it is so funny you giving lessons on English! You who have written posts German and who have written twice objecting to Singaporean members writing posts in Chinese because you can not read them. This chat room is based in Singapore, not in Houston Texas.

 

Many readers notice my humor.  I have received many "HaHa" comments on my posts.  From normal members who do not have a dry, somber character but a happy one.

 

I don't compare myself with Voltaire, I simply give his writing as an example.  And... ha ha ha (humor) you again failed to recognize humor in me writing that there were no emoji in his books 

 

I only give you lessons of English when I think that they are necessary.  You should thank me for this.  Now you know how to use a comma.   

[InBangkok]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:04 AM, Steve5380 said:

you make such a big FUSS over the cost of Botox.  How petty!

I don't. You did. As you stated on August 16 2020, "Botox is not cheap. I have it done twice a year, at $600 per treatment, so it comes up to $1,200 per year, or $100 (S$135) per month" Not cheap but you added you will continue until you are 80! SO you will soon be saving that cash.

Edited October 3, 2021 by InBangkok

[InBangkok]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:44 PM, Steve5380 said:

Many readers notice my humor.  I have received many "HaHa" comments on my posts.  From normal members who do not have a dry, somber character but a happy one . . .

 

I only give you lessons of English when I think that they are necessary.  You should thank me for this.  Now you know how to use a comma.   

After all these years, do you not realise that in chat room terms "HaHa" rarely means "Oh my goodness, how funny that was!" It generally means, "How stupid!"

 

As for teaching me English, I realise that is a joke. But I have no need to thank you, given that many of your posts contain inaccurate English which I choose not to point out. If you wish, I will happily append a list of some.

[InBangkok]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:44 PM, Steve5380 said:

I don't compare myself with Voltaire, I simply give his writing as an example.  And... ha ha ha (humor) you again failed to recognize humor in me writing that there were no emoji in his books 

Well, I am delighted you do not compare yourself to Voltaire because Voltaire would be turning in his grave. But you once again failed to realise that it was I - not you - who first mentioned that there were no emojis in Voltaire's day! Your short term memory seems as though it needs a botox injection or something similar 🤣

[Guest Guest]

On 10/1/2021 at 9:36 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Hopefully you will realize one day that sword fighting and jesting is being young of spirit, something you want to be forever  

 

[Steve5380]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:47 PM, InBangkok said:

I don't. You did. As you stated on August 16 2020, "Botox is not cheap. I have it done twice a year, at $600 per treatment, so it comes up to $1,200 per year, or $100 (S$135) per month" Not cheap but you added you will continue until you are 80! SO you will soon be saving that cash.

 

For me, the cost of Botox is reasonable.  I have not reasons to make a fuss. And I get it because I like its effect.  

 

Your case is different. You are addicted to hearing live music, and you have to spend thousands of dollars in every trip you make to hear someone play music for two hours or so.  It is deplorable that you have such strong addiction, but you may overcome it one day.  If you want to come to Houston, I can play some piano music for you.   ( for free, plus you have an invitation for lunch! )

[Steve5380]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:51 PM, InBangkok said:

After all these years, do you not realise that in chat room terms "HaHa" rarely means "Oh my goodness, how funny that was!" It generally means, "How stupid!"

 

As for teaching me English, I realise that is a joke. But I have no need to thank you, given that many of your posts contain inaccurate English which I choose not to point out. If you wish, I will happily append a list of some.

 

They surely respond to your posts with the smiley face for scorn,  but for my posts they find genuine humor.  

 

Why you ask me again?  I had already responded to you that you can call my attention to any inaccurate English you find in my posts. I still have to see more of these posts, ha ha.

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:54 PM, InBangkok said:

Well, I am delighted you do not compare yourself to Voltaire because Voltaire would be turning in his grave. But you once again failed to realise that it was I - not you - who first mentioned that there were no emojis in Voltaire's day! Your short term memory seems as though it needs a botox injection or something similar 🤣

 

Voltaire would be turning in his grave reading your posts. 

 

But this is understandable since you are showing to be increasingly mentally handicapped.  If you scan BW, you won't find any instance of Voltaire not using emoji  before I wrote this the other days.  Have your memory checked! 

[Guest Guest]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:17 PM, Steve5380 said:

If you want to come to Houston, I can play some piano music for you.   ( for free, plus you have an invitation for lunch! )

 

Always beware of people with fake intentions...

 

[InBangkok]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:17 PM, Steve5380 said:

You are addicted to hearing live music, and you have to spend thousands of dollars in every trip you make to hear someone play music for two hours or so.  It is deplorable that you have such strong addiction, but you may overcome it one day.

This illustrates so clearly how much you just make up about other posters and their comments. Ever since I was a teenager I have loved attending live concerts and operas and recitals. These are one of my many passions. I have never made any bones about that. And yes, I take in concerts, operas, and recitals when I travel. But I never travel just to hear any music. I spent a glorious 5 days at the Leipzig Bach Festival in 2015 but that was part of a 5 week trip that also took me to Munich, Nuremberg, Berlin, London, Chicago, Louisville (to spend a few days with dear friends) and then New York to meet up with more long-time friends. So you just assume, but you never bother to check. Meeting good friends and sightseeing are always part of my travel agenda.

 

And yes, I went to Dresden just to see the opera Der Rosenkavalier because I wanted to hear that particular opera in that wonderful opera house where Strauss was the Music Director for so many years. It was amazing, superb. But I had flown from Asia on Royal Jordanian Airlines with a stop over in Amman specifically so I could visit the ancient and quite stunning city of Petra (no extra air cost), and then move on to other parts of Europe for 10 days, mostly to catch up with old friends. But then you don't care about that because it would never fit with your snide, childish remarks about my enjoying live music.

 

For you to criticise my traveling is the height of hypocrisy. You remember you wrote "I don't envy your life at all"? Yet you were so impressed when I first started posting that you wrote on 27 May 2020 after I had posted some photos of my travels, "You really are a well traveled man, a worldly man. Your pictures are fantastic! Thank you. I am copying them into a folder to have as inspiration for future trips."  You then added on 28 May, "We should all venture out and travel. To strange lands and peoples."  which prompts two questions. (1). Which of my photos impressed you most so that you are planning a "future trip"? Go on. Tell us! And (2), which "strange lands and peoples" have you visited in, say the last decade? None I expect, because you have rarely travelled anywhere in that time, as you told us. Hypocrite!

 

As no doubt you will have forgotten, I posted photos of the Torres del Paine National Park in southern Chile, the Perito Moreno Glacier in southern Argentina, Nikko in Japan, the Dzong at Punakha and the Eagle's Nest Monastery in Bhutan, the Himalayan Annapurna Range at dawn, several of Petra, two from my then recent trip to Iran, Lake Louise in Canada, The Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver, the Tibetan Monastery in Shangri La, several from the Harbin Ice & Snow Festival and the Aurora Borealis taken beyond the Arctic Circle in the far north of Finland. 

 

Of, I almost forgot. You are planning a trip to Germany with your sister to your family's old home town. I am sure you will enjoy it - but you don't even remember that I offered some additional suggestions for inclusion in that trip? How is planning that trip coming along?

Edited October 5, 2021 by InBangkok

[InBangkok]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:17 PM, Steve5380 said:

If you want to come to Houston, I can play some piano music for you.   ( for free, plus you have an invitation for lunch! )

Even if you provide a business class air ticket, I would not come near your home for lunch. I have zero interest in hearing your piano playing. And since you have already informed us your lunch has remained the same for decades, I'll pass on that lunch of lentils and frozen vegetables (as you described in a post in October last year).

 

I like to enjoy my lunch, usually with friends. A small salad, some nice poached fish and a small slice of blueberry cheesecake. That's my idea of a decent lunch. And since you told us you drink nothing with your meals, I happen to enjoy a glass or two of wine with my lunch if I am not on a work trip.

[Steve5380]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:40 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

Always beware of people with fake intentions...

 

 

LOL! LOL!   You just made me aware of the possibilities I have  

 

But NO.  I have not bad intentions towards @InBangkok  He entertains me a lot   

[Steve5380]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:01 AM, InBangkok said:

Even if you provide a business class air ticket, I would not come near your home for lunch. I have zero interest in hearing your piano playing. And since you have already informed us your lunch has remained the same for decades, I'll pass on that lunch of lentils and frozen vegetables (as you described in a post in October last year).

 

I like to enjoy my lunch, usually with friends. A small salad, some nice poached fish and a small slice of blueberry cheesecake. That's my idea of a decent lunch. And since you told us you drink nothing with your meals, I happen to enjoy a glass or two of wine with my lunch if I am not on a work trip.

 

Who said that I would cook for you for lunch?  I am not a professional cook and I do it only FOR ME.  Other people have different likenesses, although I strongly recommend to eat what I do.   A small salad + poached fish + small slice of blueberry cheesecake is not my idea of a decent lunch.  For me, lunch is the main meal.  (how come you are so overweight, still eating allegedly so little?  Can one trust you??...)

 

I was thinking that as a guest I take you to a nice restaurant close to where I live.  Too bad you declined  

 

Perhaps you may have thought what Guest Guest suggested, that I would poison you!  No, I don't do those things, not with you, not with anyone  

.

[Steve5380]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:39 AM, InBangkok said:

This illustrates so clearly how much you just make up about other posters and their comments. Ever since I was a teenager I have loved attending live concerts and operas and recitals. These are one of my many passions. I have never made any bones about that. And yes, I take in concerts, operas, and recitals when I travel. But I never travel just to hear any music. I spent a glorious 5 days at the Leipzig Bach Festival in 2015 but that was part of a 5 week trip that also took me to Munich, Nuremberg, Berlin, London, Chicago, Louisville (to spend a few days with dear friends) and then New York to meet up with more long-time friends. So you just assume, but you never bother to check. Meeting good friends and sightseeing are always part of my travel agenda.

 

And yes, I went to Dresden just to see the opera Der Rosenkavalier because I wanted to hear that particular opera in that wonderful opera house where Strauss was the Music Director for so many years. It was amazing, superb. But I had flown from Asia on Royal Jordanian Airlines with a stop over in Amman specifically so I could visit the ancient and quite stunning city of Petra (no extra air cost), and then move on to other parts of Europe for 10 days, mostly to catch up with old friends. But then you don't care about that because it would never fit with your snide, childish remarks about my enjoying live music.

 

For you to criticise my traveling is the height of hypocrisy. You remember you wrote "I don't envy your life at all"? Yet you were so impressed when I first started posting that you wrote on 27 May 2020 after I had posted some photos of my travels, "You really are a well traveled man, a worldly man. Your pictures are fantastic! Thank you. I am copying them into a folder to have as inspiration for future trips."  You then added on 28 May, "We should all venture out and travel. To strange lands and peoples."  which prompts two questions. (1). Which of my photos impressed you most so that you are planning a "future trip"? Go on. Tell us! And (2), which "strange lands and peoples" have you visited in, say the last decade? None I expect, because you have rarely travelled anywhere in that time, as you told us. Hypocrite!

 

As no doubt you will have forgotten, I posted photos of the Torres del Paine National Park in southern Chile, the Perito Moreno Glacier in southern Argentina, Nikko in Japan, the Dzong at Punakha and the Eagle's Nest Monastery in Bhutan, the Himalayan Annapurna Range at dawn, several of Petra, two from my then recent trip to Iran, Lake Louise in Canada, The Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver, the Tibetan Monastery in Shangri La, several from the Harbin Ice & Snow Festival and the Aurora Borealis taken beyond the Arctic Circle in the far north of Finland. 

 

Of, I almost forgot. You are planning a trip to Germany with your sister to your family's old home town. I am sure you will enjoy it - but you don't even remember that I offered some additional suggestions for inclusion in that trip? How is planning that trip coming along?

 

I'm not making up anything.  Today you trot the globe up and down going after live music, no?

 

It is known the escapism associated with much traveling.  No matter where you go, you yourself... go with you!  So there is no way to escape the reality of being you by escaping to another place.  You will be the same YOU in Antarctica as you are in Bangkok.  What you may gain is escaping the problems you have at home.

 

In my case, I am so happy with the place I live and my whole life, that it takes a strong motivation to travel away.  I had to travel of course for work, and thereafter I have the motivation of being surrounded by and making happy acquaintances with nice Asian boys in S.E. Asia.  This is difficult to do in Houston. 

 

But what is not difficult at all in Houston or elsewhere is to enjoy a wealth of good music on YouTube, thanks to the Internet.  In the last days I had lost the Internet due to a technical problem of the provider,  but for these three days I listened and watched on the computer excellent music and videos that I had downloaded from YouTube.  Now with the Internet back,  I am listening to the first round of the 18th Warsaw Chopin Piano Competition taking place right now.  I am listening now to the performance by Hayato Sumino... excellent!  I don't think I would have a better experience sitting in the concert hall in Warsaw.

 

Tomorrow I will go to the Wortham Theater to hear the tenor Jonas Kaufmann sing the arias he has learned to sing.  I expect this to be enjoyable.  But instead of spending thousands of dollars in first class airline tickets (you would not have your ass moved in anything less) and in five star hotels (you like to sleep in rooms that have bugs of some aristocracy),  my total cost for the occasion will be 87 dollars,  $75 for the seat and $12 for the parking.

 

My trip with my sister to Germany will wait until the pandemic has passed and the people now desperate to vacation have cleared the touristic jamming.  This will be sometime in 2022.  But before this we will visit Buenos Aires to reminisce going back to the places of our childhood.  We look forward to this.  

 

 

[InBangkok]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:44 AM, Steve5380 said:

instead of spending thousands of dollars in first class airline tickets (you would not have your ass moved in anything less) and in five star hotels (you like to sleep in rooms that have bugs of some aristocracy),  my total cost for the occasion will be 87 dollars,  $75 for the seat and $12 for the parking.

Once again you make assumption after assumption - and you get it all wrong! I worked for international companies in Hong Kong and Tokyo for over three decades, as I have earlier stated. In management positions, I had to travel to regional and head offices in various parts of the globe from as far as Sydney to Cleveland and Los Angeles. I never paid for those trips which were almost all in business class. Had a company offered me first class, I would certainly have been delighted to accept it - although from what US airlines termed "first class" when i was travelling regularly was worse than premium economy now on international airlines.

 

What you fail to realise (because you never thought about it and merely assumed and never asked) is that during the entirety of this time, airlines and hotels offered mileage and frequent stay schemes. For almost the entirety of the period I mention I never had less than around 500,000 miles in my airline accounts and masses of free nights in the hotel schemes. So, since you have made up so much, the fact is that rarely did i ever have to pay for vacations and rarely did I have to pay to get to destinations to enjoy concerts and operas. Besides, as you are no doubt unaware, a round the world ticket (of which my companies purchased a total of 32 for me) included up to 16 - later revised to 14 - flight sectors. With work in London, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, that took up five sectors and so there would always be several spare sectors which i could use for long week-end trips at destinations not on my itinerary. For these sectors I had to pay only the fuel surcharge and airport taxes - a pittance.

 

Again for most of that time, travel was arranged by the companies' travel offices. So your assumption about thousands of dollars and first class air tickets is yet again a fiction of your simple imagination. Further, as is your style, your insults are plain childish. You only travelled for sex with young Asian boys. Remember writing this? ""Before the pandemic I was traveling around the world for the enjoyment of good sex,  not theatre, opera or concert," (This from a poster who started a threads in Instrumental music and who posts endless youtube videos of classical concerts and recitals, yet when travelling was only interested in sex!)

 

Oh, and just so readers are aware, who informed you about the Jonas Kaufmann concert in Houston? WHO? I told you! On July 6 I had read on one of the Houston music sites about a classical music star appearing in Houston. You then wrote on the same date,

 

"I looked at the 2021 season of the Houston Symphony and Houston Opera, and I didn't find any "world's greatest artist".  But who cares?"

 

What a hypocrite! You cannot see what is obvious on a website and you have no interest anyway. Then what happens? After I wrote on August 24 "The fact is the tenor Jonas Kaufmann, generally agreed to be the finest and most sought-after tenor of our day, will give a concert with the Houston Symphony in the Wortham Theatre Center's Brown Stage on Wednesday 6 October," by the next day you had purchased a ticket! Hypocrite!

[Guest Oh No!!!]

How is this considered joyful?   See track  1:30 onwards.

 

[Steve5380]

On 10/7/2021 at 1:56 AM, Guest Oh No!!! said:

 

How is this considered joyful?   See track  1:30 onwards.

 

 

Where is the big deal here?  The appearance of our face is just a small part of our persona, and is something WE don't see.  More important is the aging of our HEAD. 

 

And this can go very well.  Our good lifestyle can prevent damage to the brain in the form of dementia, Alzheimer's,  can prevent losing our teeth, losing our vision, losing our hearing, Equally important is the aging of our body, where a good lifestyle can prevent most of the degenerative diseases of the heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, and the loss of control of the sugar in our blood. 

 

The aging of the face is something minor that some good plastic surgery can easily correct, something the dermatologist in the video suggests. 

[Steve5380]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:54 PM, InBangkok said:

Once again you make assumption after assumption - and you get it all wrong! I worked for international companies in Hong Kong and Tokyo for over three decades, as I have earlier stated. In management positions, I had to travel to regional and head offices in various parts of the globe from as far as Sydney to Cleveland and Los Angeles. I never paid for those trips which were almost all in business class. Had a company offered me first class, I would certainly have been delighted to accept it - although from what US airlines termed "first class" when i was travelling regularly was worse than premium economy now on international airlines.

 

What you fail to realise (because you never thought about it and merely assumed and never asked) is that during the entirety of this time, airlines and hotels offered mileage and frequent stay schemes. For almost the entirety of the period I mention I never had less than around 500,000 miles in my airline accounts and masses of free nights in the hotel schemes. So, since you have made up so much, the fact is that rarely did i ever have to pay for vacations and rarely did I have to pay to get to destinations to enjoy concerts and operas. Besides, as you are no doubt unaware, a round the world ticket (of which my companies purchased a total of 32 for me) included up to 16 - later revised to 14 - flight sectors. With work in London, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, that took up five sectors and so there would always be several spare sectors which i could use for long week-end trips at destinations not on my itinerary. For these sectors I had to pay only the fuel surcharge and airport taxes - a pittance.

 

Again for most of that time, travel was arranged by the companies' travel offices. So your assumption about thousands of dollars and first class air tickets is yet again a fiction of your simple imagination. Further, as is your style, your insults are plain childish. You only travelled for sex with young Asian boys. Remember writing this? ""Before the pandemic I was traveling around the world for the enjoyment of good sex,  not theatre, opera or concert," (This from a poster who started a threads in Instrumental music and who posts endless youtube videos of classical concerts and recitals, yet when travelling was only interested in sex!)

 

Oh, and just so readers are aware, who informed you about the Jonas Kaufmann concert in Houston? WHO? I told you! On July 6 I had read on one of the Houston music sites about a classical music star appearing in Houston. You then wrote on the same date,

 

"I looked at the 2021 season of the Houston Symphony and Houston Opera, and I didn't find any "world's greatest artist".  But who cares?"

 

What a hypocrite! You cannot see what is obvious on a website and you have no interest anyway. Then what happens? After I wrote on August 24 "The fact is the tenor Jonas Kaufmann, generally agreed to be the finest and most sought-after tenor of our day, will give a concert with the Houston Symphony in the Wortham Theatre Center's Brown Stage on Wednesday 6 October," by the next day you had purchased a ticket! Hypocrite!

 

I am starting to think that I should go more easy on you.  I am sorry that the professional lifestyle you describe had to force you into such an unhealthy and even unpleasant environment.  This could explain your sometimes sour character.

 

I also had a little bit of this lifestyle, as a technical staff and manager in a multinational company I had to do some international travel to every place there is an oil industry, which is everywhere.  But this was not more than three or four times a year.  Although always strong and healthy, I could have had more pleasant ways to spend time than to be high up in the sky during long intercontinental flights. Not tired but impatient, bored.

 

But your extensive travel using 32 world tickets and accumulating over half a million miles may have kept you in the air as much time as on the ground. 

 

No matter what class you travel,  air travel is unhealthy.  Unhealthy air, unhealthy water, unhealthy cosmic radiation, unhealthy schedules, unhealthy jet lags.  Plus all the jet fuel that needs to be burned to move your ass between the many continents, a big contributor to climate change.  I hope that the bad karma this has created for you won't accelerate your fast aging!

 

But you had a work to do organizing concerts in the music industry.  And this work is what may be behind your ravings of live music performances and your hate of recorded music.  It makes sense, since this is how you made your living.  So I can be accepting of how biased you are.   You should have lived in the 19th century when there was no music without a live performance.  Today, there is a fortunate separation between music and concerts  

 

Last night I attended the concert of the singer Kaufmann accompanied by the Houston Opera Symphony.  Excellent!  I now can count Kaufmann as the best singer I have heard live.  And the Houston orchestra is a fine one.  The first half was all Italian music, from Verdi, Puccini, Mascagni,  nice but not very interesting.  The second half was the great one of the evening:  All WAGNER!  Here the orchestra shined with the genial music of Lohengrin, Parsifal, Walkure, and Kaufmann proved to be a competent heldentenor.   I didn't enjoy too much being among the biggest crowd of close-by people in this pandemic, but I had on my N95 mask and felt safe. I didn't enjoy being among a bunch of fans who clapped loudly and forever so many times during the event. 

 

So this concert was a positive experience, and I thank you for pointing it out to me, but it will not be a frequent one.  Today, there is a clear difference between music and concerts.  And I am definitely on the side of music.  Although the sound in a concert hall is unique, the sound of a recording, a video, contains ALL the music elements that exist in a concert, but more spiritual and abstract at it, without so many distractions.

 

As part of my graceful and joyful aging, I now can experience the excellent videos of the playing of ALL the participants in the Chopin Piano Competition going on at this time in Warsaw.  I thank technology for this gift, so superior and comprehensive to sitting in a concert hall listening from the distance to SOME of this piano playing.  But of course I don't watch all the videos, a big expenditure of time that may also lead to an overdose of Chopin.  

 

 

[Guest 30 something]

Wow. If this is what happens when you age and bicker like mad, compare cock sizes and travel destinations then you guys are far from aging gracefully and being good role models. 

[Steve5380]

On 10/7/2021 at 6:02 PM, Guest 30 something said:

Wow. If this is what happens when you age and bicker like mad, compare cock sizes and travel destinations then you guys are far from aging gracefully and being good role models. 

 

So what is for you "age gracefully and be good role model"?

[InBangkok]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:42 PM, Steve5380 said:

No matter what class you travel,  air travel is unhealthy.  Unhealthy air, unhealthy water, unhealthy cosmic radiation, unhealthy schedules, unhealthy jet lags.  Plus all the jet fuel that needs to be burned to move your ass between the many continents, a big contributor to climate change.  I hope that the bad karma this has created for you won't accelerate your fast aging!

What? Why should my air travel have any more bad karma on me than on you with all your business air travel? Going "everywhere three or four times a year"? The only thing is that I don't need nor want is the plastic surgery.

 

On 10/7/2021 at 10:42 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

But you had a work to do organizing concerts in the music industry.  And this work is what may be behind your ravings of live music performances and your hate of recorded music.  It makes sense, since this is how you made your living.

Wrong again, as you well know. Only a part of my career involved music - just a part. As for a love of music, II have been passionately interested in live performances since my first concerts and operas in my teens - and I was not working in my teens. Funny, too, how you rant about my "ravings" about live music performance when it was I who suggested you might be interested in the Jonas Kaufmann Houston concert the other evening. Your comment "The best singer I have heard live!". How interesting! I am delighted you enjoyed his concert. Yet when I first informed you about a major artist appearing in Houston, not only could you not even see the information on the websites, your comment was, "Who cares?" You are such a hypocrite.

Edited October 8, 2021 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:51 PM, InBangkok said:

 

What? Why should my air travel have any more bad karma on me than on you with all your business air travel? Going "everywhere three or four times a year"? The only thing is that I don't need nor want is the plastic surgery.

 

 

It had the same bad effect on me as on you, but in much lesser degree, since you have traveled much, much more than I have,  with your 32 world tickets (!) and always having over half a million flying miles accumulated.

 

There is no need for plastic surgery to reverse the signs of aging,  at least not a "need" like surgery to remove an inflamed appendix.  You must have realized and accepted that your body appearance is a lost cause, therefore a little better face makes little difference.  Most older people realize this.

 

On 10/7/2021 at 10:51 PM, InBangkok said:

 

Wrong again, as you well know. Only a part of my career involved music - just a part. As for a love of music, II have been passionately interested in live performances since my first concerts and operas in my teens - and I was not working in my teens. Funny, too, how you rant about my "ravings" about live music performance when it was I who suggested you might be interested in the Jonas Kaufmann Houston concert the other evening. Your comment "The best singer I have heard live!". How interesting! I am delighted you enjoyed his concert. Yet when I first informed you about a major artist appearing in Houston, not only could you not even see the information on the websites, your comment was, "Who cares?" You are such a hypocrite.

 

 

Your career had more than music?  You have not given any inkling that you are good for anything else. 

 

It takes a malevolent ignorant mind to find any hypocrisy in my actions about music. My interests are mainly in instrumental, symphonic music, and little in singing. So when I looked at this year's classical music season in Houston I didn't find anything very interesting.  When you mentioned the recital by tenor Kaufmann I searched his credentials and thought:  "he is a first class singer, so.. why not?  Let's try something new".  

 

And he was "the best singer I have heard live"  because he gave the only solo singing recital I remember ever attending.  Otherwise, I have heard live singing only in operas... and my own and other choir members.  All the solo recitals I have attended have been of pianists.  Just my personal likenesses and my freedom of choice.