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Keybox Sauna @ Upp Circular Rd (No Ads or Bitch fight)


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Bullshit! I was there a few days ago to want to register, but the owner of Keybox say that they want only young people, they rejected me. I am 39 years old this year. Then after me, was another elderly man, also rejected by the owner. I guess, Keybox, will only cater for young people.

It's real bizarre if what claimed by MM is "true" ...

These 2 statements are no-joke serious ...

(1) " ... the owner of Keybox say that they want only young people ... "

(2) " ... they rejected me ... "

Quite doubting for me, though ;) Maybe, I should check-it-out this evening :B)

Why don't they just put up a sign-board at the entrance - "Old looking guy, please walk-away" LOL(JuzAJoke)

Something is fishy or salah at either "Here" or "There" ?! .. ;) Better wait for KeyBox management to clarify the whole thing.

Hary

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Guest Venus
I think the owner prefers younger guys and also better looking ones. So even if you have muscles but no look, you will not fit into the profile of what the owner wants. So look is very important? :unsure:

I fully agree. No. 1 is Look. No.2 is Body and the last Personality.

There are a lot of guys with big muscle but their face look like

a. kanna Lung Gar by a 3 - tonner

b. Freddy Krugger in Nitemale on Elm Street

c. Satan Worshipper

d. Phua Chu Kang 's Father

e. Michael Jackson in Thriller VCD (I meant when he turned into this creature at the end of the Video)

Look cannot change bcoz u are born with it. But You can try Cosmetic Surgery.

Try the Heart Sutra by this Jum Te Buddha. The more your heart glows, it will affect you on a cellular level. You may not change your look but you certainly change your auric field/energy.

I am a good looking guy (as I was told by people l;ocally/pverseas) but I do get attracted to certain people who are not a great looker but have a good heart and energy.

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Come on....Everybody is looking for good 1 at Spa....just ONS but if click then be friend or more...

but don't be sad for those who being rejected....time and your effect can change certain thing in life...

Of course, agree that nice heart last longer but provided got ppl willing to look into their heart...

God is fair...choose the suitable way and you can live happily......

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Guest Ni Na Li Chi
Are they really reject older man to be their member?

If that is true, I will definitely not and NEVER go there as I just like olderman.

Why dun you call them direct and check it out? No point asking around in this way, nobody can help you.

Only the owner can help you. :thumb:

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Guest 8EFD7A
I am quite shocked when the owner told me that his sauna only cater to young people. If my age is not a problem, then it must be my looks. I confess that I am not handsome at all, though I am muscular, my chest is 40 inches and my biceps is 15 inches.

U yourself also confess u not handsome at all, u keep stressing u got nice body, then i guess u must really have a lorry langar face.

Sometimes an establishment need to have some quality control over their crowds. Imagine if they let all types of ppl in, smelly beggars, dirty uncles, psycho pervert, men with face full of boiled zits, it will just scared the other crowds away, and the quality of the crowds will sooner or later become so damn low.

I remember once i went to BH, the uncle infront of me was rejected entry and was being told that the club is for members only and they stop receiving new members. Then the uncle scream bad words and stuff and walk away angrily. I did botice he kinda look like some pervert and kinda ugly. Imagine what will he do to those young boys crowds in BH that time and scared them away.

What im trying to say is, the establishment will give other excuses to reject your entry, like no more new membership, only for young crowds, to be polite to u. its better than to tell u the truth isnt it?

And u r 39, is not old, its the other thing, sorry to tell u that.

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Guest love-sauna
U yourself also confess u not handsome at all, u keep stressing u got nice body, then i guess u must really have a lorry langar face.

Sometimes an establishment need to have some quality control over their crowds. Imagine if they let all types of ppl in, smelly beggars, dirty uncles, psycho pervert, men with face full of boiled zits, it will just scared the other crowds away, and the quality of the crowds will sooner or later become so damn low.

I remember once i went to BH, the uncle infront of me was rejected entry and was being told that the club is for members only and they stop receiving new members. Then the uncle scream bad words and stuff and walk away angrily. I did botice he kinda look like some pervert and kinda ugly. Imagine what will he do to those young boys crowds in BH that time and scared them away.

What im trying to say is, the establishment will give other excuses to reject your entry, like no more new membership, only for young crowds, to be polite to u. its better than to tell u the truth isnt it?

And u r 39, is not old, its the other thing, sorry to tell u that.

Its time for Keybox to say something. Otherwise I would presume its all true.

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the establishment will give other excuses to reject your entry, like no more new membership, only for young crowds, to be polite to u. its better than to tell u the truth isnt it?

And u r 39, is not old, its the other thing, sorry to tell u that.

true fact always hurt, so such excuses consider kind? MM told that Abs do let him in, i think maybe just let the case close, assume if you are Keybox's boss, what explaination you going to give, no matter what reason i believe is hard to accept & believe by readers, esp the " victim ". business is his ( boss ), he got the right to accept & reject his customers in order to help in his business, if this sauna not welcome, then visit another, no lost right? MM, don't feel too bad, life is like that, most important is you accept yourself, the rest let nature take its course, cheers

Edited by snowball
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Guest -mottobono-
Bullshit! I was there a few days ago to want to register, but the owner of Keybox say that they want only young people, they rejected me. I am 39 years old this year. Then after me, was another elderly man, also rejected by the owner. I guess, Keybox, will only cater for young people.

Are you sure they said, they only want young people? I was there on the opening day but i was accepted without question. I m 58yrs.

I saw some not so young ppl too age around late 30s and 40s. Hmmm maybe they changed the age limit on your visit. :huh:

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FYI. I called up Keybox yesterday (approx. 1800+) and spoke to staff AXXXX (forgot how-2-spell) :P The answer I received was "All Age Group are welcome". :thumb:

So, any Lorry-face, Ugly & Old-looking one wanna join me for my 1st visit to Keybox ? :D

btw. Don't rule out some of the postings here, possibly from the "Competitor" or/& "Enemy" for whatever reasons ;)

As for the guest posting about "Quality Control", I have my reservation for a bigger picture.

Hary,

... Fxxx the age-old mindset ........ nobody is age-less ..... not everybody is born "Handsome (including the young one)

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Guest Guest
Are you sure they said, they only want young people? I was there on the opening day but i was accepted without question. I m 58yrs.

I saw some not so young ppl too age around late 30s and 40s. Hmmm maybe they changed the age limit on your visit. :huh:

Iam now inside KEYBOX and I am 50 yrs old. Those things about wanting young and goodlooking people are ALL NONSENSE.

I am 50 and average looking. There are uncles, chubs and old people and a quite delicious bear next to me.

THESE ARE ALL MADE UP BY JEALOUS WHO KNOWS SAUNA OPERATOR WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT KERYBOX TAKING AWAY THEIR BUSINESS>

KEYBOX IS VERY, VERY NICE, EVEN BETTER THAN THAN TOWEL CLUB. THE COMPUTER TABLE HAS A NICE TABLE & PLANTS PLUS THE TV LOUNGE AREA IS VERY COSY.

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Guest Guest
Are you sure they said, they only want young people? I was there on the opening day but i was accepted without question. I m 58yrs.

I saw some not so young ppl too age around late 30s and 40s. Hmmm maybe they changed the age limit on your visit. :huh:

Hi I am now at KEYBOX, dping a live coverage,

The decor is Absolute meets TMC. The small rooms are nice, some bigger. VERY IKEA. Rooms are very well- ventilated, unlike the sauna-like condition at 1oMen or the Semen-smell at 17. Simple elegance but not so artry farty like Absolute or Japanese Beng like TMC.

The sandy pastel color is warm and inviting. The lounge area is very cosy - I LIKE. The steamroom is more linear but conducive for cruising/groping. It is all on one level, very good for cruising and for uncles or older patrons. It is very cool and stylist but not snobbish. Finally, a sauna that caters to all - chubs, uncles, old folks, the average looking type, the CMI. All are welcome - that's how I feel right now. All must come and check it out. They also give out some discount coupons for next visit.

GOOD WORK! KEYBOX.

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I find that there are many guests that write untrue things about sauna. What age limit ? Only young customer can join. Kena rejected. All kind of nonsense harmful info. Grow up ! What do you get from behaving like dat ?

Anyway, I get smiles from the management when I'm there :rolleyes:

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Iam now inside KEYBOX and I am 50 yrs old. Those things about wanting young and goodlooking people are ALL NONSENSE.

I am 50 and average looking. There are uncles, chubs and old people ...

all are mature guys, if someone try to be funny 无中生有 , esp try to " spoilt " others business, i find that's ugly & evil, it's not only show what type of person you are, worst your heart...

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Guest Guest
all are mature guys, if someone try to be funny 无中生有 , esp try to " spoilt " others business, i find that's ugly & evil, it's not only show what type of person you are, worst your heart...

I believe in fair competition, no tricks or black magic. Let other new players have a chance to shine/excel.

Remember - KARMA, KARMA, KARMA, KARMA, :whistle: KHARMELON.........

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Guest peter[an
Iam now inside KEYBOX and I am 50 yrs old. Those things about wanting young and goodlooking people are ALL NONSENSE.

I am 50 and average looking. There are uncles, chubs and old people and a quite delicious bear next to me.

THESE ARE ALL MADE UP BY JEALOUS WHO KNOWS SAUNA OPERATOR WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT KERYBOX TAKING AWAY THEIR BUSINESS>

KEYBOX IS VERY, VERY NICE, EVEN BETTER THAN THAN TOWEL CLUB. THE COMPUTER TABLE HAS A NICE TABLE & PLANTS PLUS THE TV LOUNGE AREA IS VERY COSY.

U R Rite! I found the place to be very plesant and unpretentious and they play New Age Music - ENYA.

Please don't play Hokkien/Canto/J Pop like in 17 Cafe which caused to lose my erection.

Have a bit of class like TOWEL CLUB but do not go over board to be snobbish. JUST COMFY lah

It reminds me of Rauira minus the gruelsome climbing. Everything on one level - like TOWERL CLUB.

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Guest Guest
The Jacuzzi is hidden somewhere... if u are observant enough u will know where is it.

Where's is the Jacuzzi? Cannot find leh?

But the shower room with 6 square shower heads is dim and good for groping - I like very much.

The 3 toilets are clean and of good size. 17 toilets too stinky and TMC too wet (you also look weird wearing those xxxx, like a samsui man)

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Guest Guest
FYI. I called up Keybox yesterday (approx. 1800+) and spoke to staff AXXXX (forgot how-2-spell) :P The answer I received was "All Age Group are welcome". :thumb:

So, any Lorry-face, Ugly & Old-looking one wanna join me for my 1st visit to Keybox ? :D

btw. Don't rule out some of the postings here, possibly from the "Competitor" or/& "Enemy" for whatever reasons ;)

As for the guest posting about "Quality Control", I have my reservation for a bigger picture.

Hary,

... Fxxx the age-old mindset ........ nobody is age-less ..... not everybody is born "Handsome (including the young one)

I agree. Change and practise good deeds. Your appearance will change. You may not b as gorgeous as Brad Pitt but people will like you and be drawn to u.

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Guest Guest
U R Rite! I found the place to be very plesant and unpretentious and they play New Age Music - ENYA.

Please don't play Hokkien/Canto/J Pop like in 17 Cafe which caused to lose my erection.

Have a bit of class like TOWEL CLUB but do not go over board to be snobbish. JUST COMFY lah

It reminds me of Rauira minus the gruelsome climbing. Everything on one level - like TOWERL CLUB.

I am so happy to be in a place like KEYBOX. It feels good and right. I enjoyed myself very much, surfing the net at the lounge - very relaxing.

I rested in one of rooms, very cosy and comfortable. I do not need to cum but it is good I can come to a place to feel safe and at ease.

The guys here, a mix of old and young. Some cute bears and muscular guy. The rest, only langar by a bike ( not so bad).

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Guest Health
Where's is the Jacuzzi? Cannot find leh?

But the shower room with 6 square shower heads is dim and good for groping - I like very much.

The 3 toilets are clean and of good size. 17 toilets too stinky and TMC too wet (you also look weird wearing those xxxx, like a samsui man)

:yuk: I faint upon on seeing some dirt of shower's all walls at 1st & 2nd Level, 17. Why staffs just enjoying cleaning on the simple floors instead. Bullsit

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Anyone gonna go down later on ? Actually I'm really curious to see the new place. Jus worried it'll be empty as all the people go off to club :P

No worry, I am going down too......for sure there will be big crowd as buffet will be served as advertised below @ KeyBox website

Highlights:

Saturday (18 July 2009)

6pm – 6.30pm : All rooms will be lighted for concept viewing

8pm : Light refreshment will be served

9pm - 1am : Nude Night

Sunday (19 July 2009)

6pm - 10pm : Underwear Night

18 to 25 years old - $5

26 years and above - $10

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No worry, I am going down too......for sure there will be big crowd as buffet will be served as advertised below @ KeyBox website

Highlights:

Saturday (18 July 2009)

6pm – 6.30pm : All rooms will be lighted for concept viewing

8pm : Light refreshment will be served

9pm - 1am : Nude Night

Sunday (19 July 2009)

6pm - 10pm : Underwear Night

18 to 25 years old - $5

26 years and above - $10

:blink: Nude night starting from 9pm ... that's kinda late by typical standards isn't it ? Anyway, sounds interesting, thx for the post J28 :thumb:

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Guest Guest
:yuk: I faint upon on seeing some dirt of shower's all walls at 1st & 2nd Level, 17. Why staffs just enjoying cleaning on the simple floors instead. Bullsit

They are also frighten. 17 shower very bad and you still pay SGD27 on wknd to use stinky third world standard bathroom. This is insane.

PLEASE, learn from ex-Towel Club. The staffs there very conscientious in upkeeping the cleanliness

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Guest Guest
I was there just now 4pm to 4.20pm.

I think i'm the youngest in Keybox at that time.

What i found that there were really little ppl and I just went there to see the environment.

Now it's getting crowded. Good decent crowd - muscular, bear, old, average joe, chinaman

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Just came back from Keybox.

The staff do not look like they are gay. The most matured staff of some of the saunas I've been to.

The counter staff who signed me up did not seem very comfortable or sure. He did smile though. :rolleyes:

He did not ask me how I came to know about Keybox or references to other gay saunas to screen out straight people.

But I guess with its location, doubt any straight guys would walk in randomly.

The comment made about uncles not allowed membership is hogwash. Not true as I'm certainly an uncle.

The place is pretty much what others have described. Sadly there wasn't many people there.

The light refreshment started much earlier than the stated time of 8pm as well as the nude theme started earlier too.

There weren't only chubs as there were some slim and muscular guys too. But I hardly see any guys in their 20's. Maybe a couple of them

who disappeared into some cubicle together probably, making use of the free entrance fee.

The management should do more promotions to let others know of this place. Do what Absolute does by posting in local gay

forums and engaging customers' comments. But I understand its not possible to please everyone. They have to strike a balance

and improve on some reasonable suggestions.

Maybe the cubicle area is too dark as I heard people kicking the walls and hearing muffled "ouches". Even a young chap too.

Or maybe they are not familiar with the corridors and the bends.

The buffet spread was better than I imagined with the "Light refreshment" stated. Quite tasty black pepper pork chop. :P

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It is nice to read feedback and comments about the new sauna...keybox.

I was at tmc yesterday...there was a crowd and the rooms were all occupied and u could find ppl doing it in the maze...wow..

I wonder how the crowd is like in Keybox...are they friendly or do those who go there stick to themselves and so those who there alone will find themselves ignored....i sure would visit keybox to see the environment...but if it is a place where ppl go with their partners then i may not wish to be there...

any feedback abt the kind of ppl who go keybox so far? more young or more mature or a good mix?

cheerios.

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Guest young
It is nice to read feedback and comments about the new sauna...keybox.

I was at tmc yesterday...there was a crowd and the rooms were all occupied and u could find ppl doing it in the maze...wow..

I wonder how the crowd is like in Keybox...are they friendly or do those who go there stick to themselves and so those who there alone will find themselves ignored....i sure would visit keybox to see the environment...but if it is a place where ppl go with their partners then i may not wish to be there...

any feedback abt the kind of ppl who go keybox so far? more young or more mature or a good mix?

cheerios.

hi Mature,

I'm 25 yo and I was in Keybox yesterday about 4pm.

there were no crowd at that time, I think just around 12 ppl only at that time, and seems have a little crowd at night time (from others reply).

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Guest -keybox-
:yuk: I faint upon on seeing some dirt of shower's all walls at 1st & 2nd Level, 17. Why staffs just enjoying cleaning on the simple floors instead. Bullsit

hello. here is topic for keybox not topic for 17.

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KeyBox just started it's business this week. I think it is hard to gauge what kind of customers it have. For the type of customers that will settle down in KeyBox, I think the answer will be out in 3 to 6 months time.

As mentioned by one of the posting, it is sort of like the old Rairua but less the steps of climbing up and down and less the jazcuzi. I still don't see the jazcuzi. Where is it located as some posting suggested ?

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Guest guest
KeyBox just started it's business this week. I think it is hard to gauge what kind of customers it have. For the type of customers that will settle down in KeyBox, I think the answer will be out in 3 to 6 months time.

As mentioned by one of the posting, it is sort of like the old Rairua but less the steps of climbing up and down and less the jazcuzi. I still don't see the jazcuzi. Where is it located as some posting suggested ?

but if diamond just close at jalan sultan will their regular flock to keybox since is just next lane only?

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anyone going tonight?

keen to check it out but dread going to an empty place.

i'm curious how/where the owners did their publicity.

if they only publicized in the blowingwind forum, does that mean that everyone who turned up is a reader of blowingwind?

and why aren't they stepping up the publicity already?

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As mentioned by one of the posting, it is sort of like the old Rairua but less the steps of climbing up and down and less the jazcuzi. I still don't see the jazcuzi. Where is it located as some posting suggested ?

I've confirmed with the owner of Keybox.

There IS going to be a jacuzzi afterall. It will only be revealed in due course.

I like the fact that it was cleverly concealed out sight. Brilliant :clap:

======================

Disclaimer: I am not the owner and have absolutely no stake or share in the above establishment.

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@Gachi Munchi

will you hold my hand and lead me to the secret jacuzzi ?

maybe we can have a private romantic time at the jacuzzi ?

Two of us only :whistle:

GM, at your blog you mentioned you visited the Viet bar. Are you interested in woman ? Are you turning straight ? Or are you a bi ? Have you fxxk a girl ? Curious :rolleyes:

Edited by ixmog
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Weisc & night listener, did you go down to keybox, how's the crowd there?

Hi Snowball, yeah I finally made my way down to Keybox alone. Had a little difficulty finding the place cos I was expecting it to be a little more seculded from the description. The entrace was actually facing the road. There is a little "partition" shielding the entrance through use of a blinds and potted plants, so it offered a certain degree of privacy. parking is definitely great in that area, very few cars at night, and as mentioned its free after 5pm. I don't drive but have gone there for food at near nearby vicinity with some friends, so i know the place is rather quiet and very few cars at night.

The staff were polite and tried to smile, but I guess they were not really used to working in the service line so the smiles seemed a BIT nervous. Interior was nice, simple, clean, music in the dark room was like what was stated, non techno and rather soft n soothing. I personally liked it and I think many people enjoyed listening to the soothing music as they slept though the night since it opened till 7am :whistle: Facilities-wise, I think they'd be doing some more renovations soon. I finally was able to locate the 'hidden' jacuzzi as well after walking all over the place to locate it. I think from my estimation (may not be accurate since it was very dark) it should be about the size of the old BH jacuzzi, or maybe a little smaller. Some renovation work has to be done first before it will be put into use (I overheard one guy who works there (or owner maybe ?) tell his friend about the renovations that need to be done before it will be open for use). Sad to say there were some very inconsiderate guys who actually smoked in the open activity room. THe smell took forever to dissipate as it was an air-conditioned room. The smoking room is right behind with chairs n tables provided, dunno why those people just can't be a little more considerate and smoke inside rather than all over the place.

Ok, coming to the very important crowds :P Since I was there slightly after nine, I must say that there really wasn't a large crowd. There were some 40+ guys, some with nice bod, one was large sized, there were a few small-size chubs I think, in their 30's and there were like a bunch of 20'ish lads who seemed to know each other and seemed to be mostly keeping to themselves. Of course there were the ones who walked around and and looked like everyone wanted him but were not good enough for him. So I think in all it was a very diverse crowd from what I saw, however probably due to the lack of advertising or simply cos the place is too new, the crowd is a bit thin, and I don't think there were many people who came in after 11pm.

Overall, I personally rather liked the place, the staff were polite though not overly friendly (the way I like it) and more importantly they don't look like the type who'd bitch about their customers behind their backs :thumb: and the place is clean and has good ambience. A bit lacking in facilities, but at least in the near future they'd have a nice working steamroom and a jacuzzi. All it needs is a bigger clientele :D and I really hope they'd keep the jacuzzi really clean cos I've really had enough of slimey jacuzzis at some other places :swear: my 2 cts for my first visit

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dungeon room? then what's different from 17, bdsm theme nite? i think more mature guys like it compare to Younger AJs, i admit that some youngster like to have more excitement, but sorry to say, is not those stuffs you mention. they can be very wild very kinky like no tmr, however not in sauna, but pvt party & ... :P

Edited by snowball
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Guest Guest_Health
Should try to have dungeon room and bdsm theme nite.

Younger AJs like to have more excitement lah

My nose is sensitive. I can reek of smoking cigar when i enterred in the A/C Darkroom. Smoking can destroy our health in A/C Darkroom. :angry:

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I visited Keybox today approx 1900 - 2100 & received both the Welcome/Goodbye Smile from the Boss & his Staffs :D

Crowd: 10+ (Considerably less for Sunday, could be better)

Customers:

2 x Old uncle (1 x skinny, 1 x Chub) - Diamond goers (Confirmed)

3 x Mid-age guys (1 x Chub, 2 x Stocky(Exercise body-type) - Shogun/TenMen goers (Confirmed)

approx. 5 ,6 Youngsters (Skinny/lean) - Absolute/17 goers (Highly possible)

Location: Quite easy to locate esp if you are a Diamond goer

I like the dimmer & believe it is installed in every fun room) - good to adjust the brightness when u want to see "something" clearer :P or choose to be in total darkness :P

I actually took a nap(approx. 30 mins) in one of the fun room.

The lighting at the TV area somewhat doesn't goes well with the surroundings (a bit bright) - not a complaint, cos me ain't TV & Computer person when visit sauna.

Happening? only one, or two fun rooms were closed (Presumingly with action). - quite pathetic ... :D

As for my "Personal" details .... guess no-need to elaborate :P

Overall, the setup is comfy & Clean(for now) - Extra towel would be ideal, so I think it's worth a/more visit.

Now, the key challenge for the boss is how to bring in the crowd & also resolve the issue of conflicting interests between the young & old patrons.

Hary

Edited by harylok
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I went to raw sauna today after dinner...

sorry, just to confirm, is there still have Raw sauna?

keybox's boss, is there any SPECIAL PROMOTIONS coming?

well not all readers will log in to your website, if possible, you may ads your theme night or promotion here,

so more readers will know the update of your sauna

Edited by snowball
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was there from 1850 - 2215 tonight.

facilities

clean and adequate. place is not large, can finish checking out the entire premises in under 5 min, but there's quite alot of private rooms.

basically, upon your entrance, left would be the TV room and lockers; right would be the maze and private rooms; straight ahead would be the loo/shower/steam room.

music

enya was played until about 9pm or so. then it was switched to techno.

crowd demographic

erratic. there was the young and studly, mature and chubby, mature and fit, and the average joes like me.

bad thing is, the crowd was very thin and when i first arrived, there was no one in the dark area cruising at all. everyone (less than 10 in total) was in the tv room reading newspaper/surfing net/watching tv/chatting. more people streamed in after 8pm plus, but i doubt there were more than 20 guys.

at about 9plus, a group of youngsters came, they seem to be a group of friends. i scored with one of them, a tall, slim and lean guy. afterwards, we had fun chatting. (: after we cleaned up, it was about 10. i went back to hunt again but it was totally deserted and i left.

verdict

cosy little joint. has potential to be happening but right now the crowd is simply too thin.

Edited by cadlad
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Guest GENTLEMAN
RAW Sauna closed-down liao ................................... :smokin:

RAW sauna is still opening. They have moved over to a new location opposite Pearl's cinema, next to outram mrt station.

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Guest muscularly manly
sorry, just to confirm, is there still have Raw sauna?

keybox's boss, is there any SPECIAL PROMOTIONS coming?

well not all readers will log in to your website, if possible, you may ads your theme night or promotion here,

so more readers will know the update of your sauna

Who cancel my message about the happenings at RAW Sauna? Is the author of blowingwind against RAW sauna?

BW Moderator's comment : I did. Read the posting guidelines. You posted out of context in this thread, leading others to comment - similarly out of context. We have nothing against Raw or Heating Room. You are not new here. You should know where to post.

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  • G_M changed the title to Keybox Sauna @ Upp Circular Rd (No Ads or Bitch fight)
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