City Harvest Church Discussion - Kong Hee & Sun Ho (Compiled)

[oralb]

from the facebook entries of a CHC supporter

"CHC is half as the strength of the SAF regulars combined. Some regulars will even join us. If we want to build an army, we can. We want to buy arms, we have the money given to us by God to buy. No weapon shall form against us. CHC will be victorious, no matter what."

"When he arrived, the king asked him, "Micaiah, shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?" "Attack and be victorious," he answered, "for they will be given into your hand." - 2 Chronicles 18:14

God will give us victory if we are willing to fight in the name of the LORD."

[Guest Underground-Move]

from the facebook entries of a CHC supporter

"CHC is half as the strength of the SAF regulars combined. Some regulars will even join us. If we want to build an army, we can. We want to buy arms, we have the money given to us by God to buy. No weapon shall form against us. CHC will be victorious, no matter what."

Ha so serious ha ... no wonder Gahmen now investigate strictly deep inside

As it can be a root of hidden terrorism le, never ever heard any religious talking about building armed army except the hardliner Jihad Moslems ......

So scary ....... It can be they have hidden training camp some where liao

[olderchnchub]

Come on guys...that person is just a loose cannon. or saboteur. I am totally on fence on the CHC issue...but it's not hard to figure out.

Edited June 4, 2010 by olderchnchub

[oralb]

Are there only one loose cannon?

Take a look at this

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=401892991219&comments

I quote a few of the comments

Adeline Wong Yea..everyone deserve a goodest after the hectic Asia Conference...Rest well so as to have a good fight with the devils out there...!

Catherine Chan 'Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.' Ephesians 6:10-13

Sean Lee Bless the chruch and pastors with God's Glory... devil u had lost the battle again and again

Timotz SiVaz i have a good feelin its devils time to work on this because he is seein somewhere there he can archive big things ....we the ppl of god are headin to higer heights and once we are there the devil has to work out things to stop the harvest as a nation we have to pray and stand firm on wat is right and wrong as god is wif us we shall pray and this thing will come to an end the lord god is wif us so wat for worry devil always has to go pass the lord and thiis is a test for us hw we are holdin on to the lord >>>>>>so Its TImE To PrAy

[windanseaguy]

Are there only one loose cannon?

I feel sorry for these people...bunch of disillusioned fanatics. Instead of pointing fingers at themselves, they point at others first. They should all be more self-reflective that the church is being investigated. Being raided by the Govt is a very serious thing.

Edited June 5, 2010 by windanseaguy

[abang]

Sad to say this but I am really ashamed of my intentions of joining a church back in the late 80s.

I had just graduated and had barely worked for more than six months when Ang brought me to that church (not City Harvest). At the beginning, it was interesting and exciting. Everyone was friendly and they (really) took interest in me.

Soon, the activities were overwhelming. In addition to the weekly Sunday service, I had to attend prayer meetings on Tuesday, evangelism outreach on Wednesday and Thursday, bible talk meetings on Friday and cell group meetings on Saturday afternoon. That was not all! I had to date a female church goer on Saturday night and stay behind on Sunday for games.

My workload had increased and soon, I was unable to fulfill the committments. I was labelled as 'backsliding'. The calls by the cell group leaders were lessened and it eventually stopped. I have to add that at that time, my cell group leader was an insurance agent with 'O' levels qualification and I had my tertiary education and a good pay. I was condemned for not fulfilling the duties of a Christian!

With all due respect to the church-goers faith, I really do not understand why do I need so much constant monitoring by that leader. He even wanted to know how much I earn! That is way too nosy for me. And yes, that church kept on getting new members without retaining the old ones...

Anyway after 3 months, I left the organisation and spiritually, I am nearer to be a good and proper person without supervision. I am definitely much happier person as a gay than one who was constantly hiding behind a facade.

Edited June 5, 2010 by abang

[oralb]

I would see this as a good example on using psychology to control followers

- Group into small groups to have a leader better control the team members

- Overload with activities, hence developed sense of belonging and same time prevent mixing with others out of the group

- Rock songs and music to lure younger generations

- Quota scheme, not unlike MLM, forcing each to donate to hit target via peer pressure

[Guest Elephant Man]

I would see this as a good example on using psychology to control followers

- Group into small groups to have a leader better control the team members

- Overload with activities, hence developed sense of belonging and same time prevent mixing with others out of the group

- Rock songs and music to lure younger generations

- Quota scheme, not unlike MLM, forcing each to donate to hit target via peer pressure

Me wanna see pure lighta!!!

[oralb]

Me wanna see pure lighta!!!

simple, close your eyes, get someone to use his thumb to press hard onto your eyelids, the sudden pressure on your optic nerves will register a bright light to your brain

aka Divine Light

[Guest kpo]

I noticed it is always the Charismatic Churches eg. SITI HAVER, NEW CRETION that adopt such wayang wayang fund raising and recruitment of membership which they called it "spiritual revival". Larger denominations not sooo wayang.......

[Guest Vybz Kartel]

simple, close your eyes, get someone to use his thumb to press hard onto your eyelids, the sudden pressure on your optic nerves will register a bright light to your brain

aka Divine Light

I think he means 0:24 to 0:26 seconds of this video:

ME WANNA SEE PURE LIGHTA!!!!

[Lau Tapoh]

U will be surprised many of the followers are well educated, some are even celebrities and authorities.....

just hope they woke up earlier from the spell...AMEN

U think they will ever wake up? Marx called religion the opiate of the people....these people are clearly hooked now regardless of their background.

Never been to their service (me=confirmed atheist) but I've always thought that Christians are super judgemental and nasty to non-straight people tho there are some 'accepting' churches. Is this church one of them? Cause I heard rumor that many PLUs attend it.

[Guest Erotictales]

Some of these places have a huge number of followers.

A businessperson joins. Equates almost to gaining that number of followers obliged to buy. You work out the rest of the reason why they joint.

[oralb]

Rem the Aussie mentioned that many joined the church to network?

Think about it, they tended to support their own and if the businessman joined, he will influence the rest to support his products. of coz he would have to "pay a price" first, to be exact 10% of his pay.

[Guest Guest]

some churches have large population u can tap ur sales/business on. u just need to join as member, pretend to be a follower...and there u go...

if they dont help each other, who will help u

[Guest Erotictales]

Interesting to see now that the Chinese pastor is also probed.

On top of that, they vanished from public sight.

In a way, the ones who go on with ....we believe them ....they are our brothers ....they told us how the money was used. Are they implying the government is corrupted? Would CAD execute such a massive operation without sufficient evidence?

Perhaps these who protest vehemently are somehow INVOLVED themselves. Like that facebook guy who's trained in accountancy.

[oralb]

the thing that came to my mind, was why waste the money on producing slick videos when you are needing the money? Look at the targets at the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4NqneV0Ecw

[Guest meow]

Mix di chiney wine with di dutty wine...

[cock brand]

When the press reported about the Church members under investigation, the first line in the report was:

"Could this be the beginning of another NKF-like scandal?"

What was the scandal that happened in NKF that led the reporter to make that assumption?

It was reported it was due to "misused of church funds".

Lets look at the NKF saga here again to refresh ourselves.

In the NKF saga, Durai was found guilty of misleading NKF with falsified invoice of $20,000 and for this, he was jailed for 3 months.

The chairman Richard Yong, because he tried to "chow-loh" with wife and money, was jailed for 15 months

The other directors were all made bankrupt.

However, some other very interesting stuff were uncovered during the trial regarding "misused of charity funds" :

1. Two contracts worth more than $7 millions were awarded to a friend just to do a botched job and never completed.

2. Directors spent $70,000 on a "study trip" to Las Vegas to get fresh ideas on doing charity shows

3. His overtime pay amounted to $187,000 and encased leave entitlement, $350,000

4. He had make use of a fleet of company cars for his family use.

5. He used NKF funds to pay for wife's car petrol and maintenance

6. He had chalked up an average of $32,900 bills on corporate cards.

7. One staff's salary rose from $1,300pm to $12,500 just within 9 years

8. Staff were offered 6 months exit payment when resign to form company to get lucritive jobs from NKF

9. Executive staff travels Business Class

10. Spent $430,000 on movie and concert tickets to give away.

Just wonder will there be any similar incidents over here.

Will be very interesting to know.

Edited June 7, 2010 by cock brand

[Guest CuriousHunk]

Most probably the Kong guy will be telling his flock that 'God is testing their faith ala Jesus in the desert' or that 'It is a Satanic attack' on them. You can't win.

Kong's wife sure look like Satan.... and very much like a transvetite too!!! I wonder how their followers could reach God through this kind of church group.... My personal opinion....

[Guest 为什么]

kong need so much $ to hang out with the nuns?

[Guest guest]

All I can say is that they are all Sinners... Big Time... GOD N RELIGION should'nt be about money!!! Look at all these concert style practice, I don't think GOD can accept it lah.... SIGH!!

[snowball]

The world will never change, is the human act that changes, and make the difference.  

You can give thousands of excuses to make it look right, but facts still remain unchange.

Money is not evil, is how you handle it.

Once you start to greed, you will start to dig a grave for yourself.

you can learnt by heart every single word in bibles, but that does not mean you truely understand

& you are a good man.

if can't apply god teaching in daily life, you won't be near to god,

esp if you are petty & narrow-minded person,

esp your words & your acts are totally different,

is not wise using god name for own selfish desires,

I believe everyone will have to face the music at the end of the day.

Edited June 8, 2010 by snowball

[davecub]

All religions teach us to be good. So know your religion well and dun follow blindly & mislead by the so-called "messengers".

[Guest guest]

I know all religions teach us to be good/kind..etc but it is some religious leaders that choose to manipulate or twist those facts.

Some of my colleagues so called staunch christians. Attending bible studies, attending churches...preaching about christianity..blah.blah..but then hor back stab each other every day in the office. Worst backstab those innocent staff just because they cannot play politics..but then hor their excuse is "need to survive". I don't mean people of other religion don't do that but atleast they don't preach to you everyother day... such a hypocrite

[davecub]

Take it easy. It's ok cos office politics are everywhere.

I guess these people have not fully understood the teachings of their religion then.

I know all religions teach us to be good/kind..etc but it is some religious leaders that choose to manipulate or twist those facts.

Some of my colleagues so called staunch christians. Attending bible studies, attending churches...preaching about christianity..blah.blah..but then hor back stab each other every day in the office. Worst backstab those innocent staff just because they cannot play politics..but then hor their excuse is "need to survive". I don't mean people of other religion don't do that but atleast they don't preach to you everyother day... such a hypocrite

[Guest persecuter]

I know all religions teach us to be good/kind..etc but it is some religious leaders that choose to manipulate or twist those facts.

Some of my colleagues so called staunch christians. Attending bible studies, attending churches...preaching about christianity..blah.blah..but then hor back stab each other every day in the office. Worst backstab those innocent staff just because they cannot play politics..but then hor their excuse is "need to survive". I don't mean people of other religion don't do that but atleast they don't preach to you everyother day... such a hypocrite

And their favorite WOE BE UNTO ME plea is that People always persecute us, Christians...

please, I dont see buddhist trying to shove their doctrines down ur throat.. shoving cock is another matter la

[Guest guest]

I know all religions teach us to be good/kind..etc but it is some religious leaders that choose to manipulate or twist those facts.

Some of my colleagues so called staunch christians. Attending bible studies, attending churches...preaching about christianity..blah.blah..but then hor back stab each other every day in the office. Worst backstab those innocent staff just because they cannot play politics..but then hor their excuse is "need to survive". I don't mean people of other religion don't do that but atleast they don't preach to you everyother day... such a hypocrite

I totally agreed with you on this point.

What's worse is that there are those same type that will even backstab their own family members all in the name of money. I have witnessed this happening before my eyes. Brothers who are staunch christians... will then kicked out their own family members from the family business. All in the name of $$$.

[cock brand]

Saw something interesting in the ST report.

According to the report, CHC spent $25,000 for the membership of the Town Club.

(Those who donate 10% of your salary please take note where your money went to)

It was explained that it was meant for entertaining visiting pastors.

I had always thought that pastors supposed to lead humble and simple lives but seems like these people when visiting here had to be treated to very high end places!

Does it mean that if being treated to hawker centres or food courts, they will not preach?

Holy cow, good life man!

But then, there should not be many pastors visiting every year, wondering who will be the one using the club facilities everyday?

If don't use, its wasted anyway.

And then sign for the food and drinks for the whole family and friends and charged to CHC?

Wonder will that happen or not.

But I don't think anyone will do it lah, such a dishonest act!

Edited June 17, 2010 by cock brand

[Guest Ric.guy]

$25k for each membership. How many membershits has CHC purchase har? The topic of backstab n talk bad abt other people. Yes , one of my previous bitch boss is a staunch Christians.Every am can see her with her Christian guitar ,trying to spread her wings around the workplace. Trying to be motherly figure. And yet she bad mouthed the juniors who are not smart enough or match her expectations . What a fcking bitch. Well. She does tat 5 days a week, confess her sins on Sunday n stArt her vicious cycle again.

[sgstr8fun]

Come on, let's all go start a "church" business...

[Guest Guest]

last time when young ask teachers and parents what job can make lots of money, all say lawyer lah, engineer lah, doctor lah, nobody say pastors!

But laywer, engineer, doctor so hard to study.

If I know, I early early became pastor, now can own a few condos in orchard road already.

[Guest Guest]

last time when young ask teachers and parents what job can make lots of money, all say lawyer lah, engineer lah, doctor lah, nobody say pastors!

But laywer, engineer, doctor so hard to study.

If I know, I early early became pastor, now can own a few condos in orchard road already.

Well, its never too late to fulfill your dream as a pastor. Do it now ! You'll have all our blessings being the 1st "Out of Closet" Pastor in Singapore but just don't ask for too much % of my salary to donate. :thumb: hallelujah !

[Guest Guest]

Well, its never too late to fulfill your dream as a pastor. Do it now ! You'll have all our blessings being the 1st "Out of Closet" Pastor in Singapore but just don't ask for too much % of my salary to donate. :thumb: hallelujah !

No lah, not my dream to be pastor lah!

Only blame the teachers and parents last time never advice properly lor.

Actually to be a monk also not bad nowadays.

Like Ming Yi, one month $20K pay, can own so many BMW and condos in Australia, can travel anytime and can keep pet horse somemore!

but the best is still can employ expensive $5,000 per month handsome personal assistant to follow everywhere and no need to pay.

Now think back, must really blame the teachers and parents, why never mention pastors, monks and monk personal assistant!

[Guest Guest]

No lah, not my dream to be pastor lah!

Only blame the teachers and parents last time never advice properly lor.

Actually to be a monk also not bad nowadays.

Like Ming Yi, one month $20K pay, can own so many BMW and condos in Australia, can travel anytime and can keep pet horse somemore!

but the best is still can employ expensive $5,000 per month handsome personal assistant to follow everywhere and no need to pay.

Now think back, must really blame the teachers and parents, why never mention pastors, monks and monk personal assistant!

Actually you are not wrong to say pastors/monks make a lot of money. It is a lucrative profession and there is no stiff competition like other professions. People donate money willingly and all you need to do is to read some verses from the bible. They do have foresight to be pastors/monks whereas the rest of us have to struggle very hard in the real world

[Clickclock]

Come on, let's all go start a "church" business...

haha maybe the first aj church in singapore.

[Guest Guest]

haha maybe the first aj church in singapore.

Actually, there is a aj christian group who gathered every Sunday.

[Clickclock]

oh i see...hmm

[Guest Duhz]

No lah, not my dream to be pastor lah!

Only blame the teachers and parents last time never advice properly lor.

Actually to be a monk also not bad nowadays.

Like Ming Yi, one month $20K pay, can own so many BMW and condos in Australia, can travel anytime and can keep pet horse somemore!

but the best is still can employ expensive $5,000 per month handsome personal assistant to follow everywhere and no need to pay.

Now think back, must really blame the teachers and parents, why never mention pastors, monks and monk personal assistant!

FYI, Ming Yi comes from a rich family. He wasn't like Kong Hee, going from $157,000 HDB to 2.6 million apartment.

[Guest slinkY]

lol... seriously I dunno if you are praising her or condemning her but if chanting china wine is singing, I think I can hold a mini concert le.

OMG.OMFG. China Wine ??? What kind of song is this???? No wonder she is still a nobody... Please give me Lady Gaga anytime .....

[Guest Haha]

OMG.OMFG. China Wine ??? What kind of song is this???? No wonder she is still a nobody... Please give me Lady Gaga anytime .....

China Wine? China Swine is more appropriate!

[keagan29]

maybe from now on, Teachers won't be too surprised if their students all wrote the same for "My Ambition"........

[cock brand]

This must be Kong Hee's idol, admiration and inspiration - Benny Hinn, a televangelist and celebrity pastor from USA.

CHC had hosted Benny Hinn to conduct session here before.

Benny Hinn is already flying around in a private jet and maybe Kong Hee is now aggressively working towards it had probably already learned a few things from him.

Know more about Benny Hinn.

Edited June 21, 2010 by cock brand

[cock brand]

It seems like rogue pastors are just everywhere now !

This one is from KICC, Kingsway Intertnational Christian Centre in London with 12,000 worshippers.

He was accused of serious misconduct and mismanagement and had been ordered to repay the monies.

He and his family stayed in a house owned by the church without paying any rent, used church's credit card to buy expensive timeshare in Florida and also ran commmercial business from the church premises.

Beside paying himself and his wife very well, he also received benefits like a £120,000 birthday party of which £80,000 went on a Mercedes.

And he is going to built a new church premises soon.

It seems like all these pastors love to build new churches, so that they have reasons to ask people to "give until your heart is broken" and "until tears stream down your eyes"?

My link

[Guest guest]

Last time when I accompanied my friends to church just to look see look see. After the service, the pastor talk to us ( there were afew non christians including myself). He told us to come to church to be saved otherwise the non christian will go to hell while the christian will go to heaven. I was shocked. Don't know what to say lor...

Heard all christian will have to give up 10% of their salary to the church. Is it true? I think those members will not even give 10% to their parents. No wonder some of the rogue pastors can abuse their position. I was told can also make quite good income working in church as adm. hahaha time really changes.

[Guest Guest]

Heard all christian will have to give up 10% of their salary to the church. Is it true? I think those members will not even give 10% to their parents. No wonder some of the rogue pastors can abuse their position. I was told can also make quite good income working in church as adm. hahaha time really changes.

Like paying installment for your Ticket to Heaven which also mean No $$$ Go Hell !

[snowball]

guilt or clear conscience, let the fact speaks.

Edited June 24, 2010 by snowball

[Guest walau!]

Walau! see the way the pastor's wife spend money like water, they must be earning more than 100K every month!!

don't know they got also give 10% of their salary to the church or not. if got give every month will be more than 10K liao, wah church jiak beh liao!

but maybe pastor and family members are exempted to give, take only.

[snowball]

actions speak louder than words

[ricky]

Heard all christian will have to give up 10% of their salary to the church. Is it true? I think those members will not even give 10% to their parents. No wonder some of the rogue pastors can abuse their position. I was told can also make quite good income working in church as adm. hahaha time really changes.

I think to be fair, there is no such thing as must tithe. People choose to give, of course, sometime, people do face peer pressure etc.

As for pastors, just like anywhere -teachers, monks, and even volunteers in charitable organisations, some serve with pure hearts while other, with meshed motivation. I have met Pastors who worked in rural areas, ride on motorbike, going around to visit bed-ridden people, mopping floor for them. One who could not even afford to repair his car-brake and I am sure there arevmonks and nuns who quietly care for the terminally ill and settle for simple meals and lifestyle. Thank God for these people who reminds us that is some good to live and work for. And of course, those who went wrong way to remind us that we human is ultimately weak, falls easily. And for us to be discerning in giving our money - to those who deserve and honest.