Are You Gay And Racist? + Racism In The Gay Community: Why Do Some People Not Like Some 'races' (Compiled)

[vin8tan]

Can't agree more! Everytime start a new post somemore is like wanting attention.

Get a (real) life please!!!

And may I ask what is deemed as real? Is there no room for discussion of other issues that concerns the community and are as real as real can be, other than frivolous topics about sex, sex and more sex? Are we as a community, you as a being only be defined as a sexual object? Are you so one dimensional that you are unable to consider, accept and discuss other perspective?

Edited November 8, 2012 by vin8tan

[xaviers]

I agree with vin8tan. Is sex the only real topic? This post contains an issue which people do face in our community. Be constructive please.

[TheAntisen]

Not everyone is in to the entire biracial thing. Perhaps there is comfort in familiarity for them? I can't understand how it feels like to be part of a majority, just as how I don't think you'd truly understand the trials of being on the outside looking in until you're in such a situation.

As typoshark mentioned, this is something that happens EVERYWHERE. There is no point in reprimanding people that do as such (plus what would it achieve anyway). If they're going to target a very specific market for their sex lives, then just how it is.

Do I agree with it? Not really. I feel that you should look at the person for who they are rather than the color of the skin. I don't think I've met anyone that has outwardly expressed disdain towards me, but don't let me start on the amount of times people have commented about my race, skin color, or accent. Perhaps they're just curious. But to me, I just don't see how any of it matters in the long-run. I have amazing friends from all sorts of different backgrounds and the only time where race comes in to the equation is when we're making racial and stereotypical jokes.

I can understand being more... 'selective' when it comes to sexual attraction. I have my own preferences too. But I don't know... I just don't see the point in limiting myself to a specific race when there's already so much to be turned-off by.

Plus I kinda believe that you don't really have a say in who you end up being attracted to. When it happens, it happens.

[glowingember]

First, thanks for starting this thread.

The post is long because you have a few discussion points.

The racism you mentioned not happens only in the gay community but the community at large.

Wanting to jump into bed with a particular race or not with a specific race is closer to a preference.

For gay racism, it'll be something like gay Asians are passive bottoms.(source: wiki)

Edited November 8, 2012 by glowingember

[janth]

Racism is a very VERY bad choice of word for your topic. You might want to revise that.

Firstly, a glance through your uber long post tells me you're mostly seeing this issue from the point of physical/emotional attraction. That's a rather myopic stance to adopt, especially if you intend to air your views. For one, I do not feel it possible to have a physical/emotional relationship with an Indian or Malay. It's not that I'm racist, but it's just my personal preference. It doesn't mean I have ruled out the possibility of being friends with someone of another race, regardless of orientation. FYI, I do have Indian and Malay friends. Some of them, I've met from the BW 199X group. Sadly, I've just been a little too busy to meet them. Does it mean I'm racist? You be the judge.

Secondly, I've been equally marginalised, if you wish to argue from the point of view of low self acceptance levels. Granted I might have the brains, but who wants brains nowadays? Again, your point seems weak at best, and the magnitude of the issue you're addressing doesn't strike me at all.

Lastly, I'm getting the feeling that you're promoting your blog and trying to increase readership. I applaud you for your effort! While it may not be a bad thing per se, I guess it would be great if you could refine some of your arguments if you wish to post about touchy issues such as race. I'm not trying to rebut your views, but I'm suggesting some of the arguments are flawed and leave a lot of room for improvement. Reading it gets a little boring after a while, but nonetheless I can sense your efforts in trying to make BW a more intellectual place! Cheers!

[Guest Ben]

For those arguing on the basis of "just preference" can you please give one objective reason why you would prefer say a chinese to an indian apart from the fact that he is just chinese? If there is no objective reason then I think its called "Racism" and in the case of the singaporean chinese, its more of a "superiority complex". I think this sentiment is pervasive and has eroded the very fabric of the cingaporean community. Recently I told a colleague that I had not been to orchard this year and he said: "Don't go on sundays because its crowded with Philipino maids". It's one thing to say Its crowded on sundays, but his emphasis wasn't on the crowd but on the race involved...he wouldn"t mind if it was crowded by another race!!!

Everyone is entitled to his "choices" especially with intimate relationships, but I honestly think people here should open up. I'll let u know that I am black and considered the scum of the society. In the hierachical order of races, after you account for all the races, u probably need to include dogs, then comes 50 feet of shit and below that comes the blacks!!! Having lived in many continents, i can proudly say that singapore is the most racist environment i've been in (its just my opinion), especially in this community.. anyway i've given up any hope of finding friendship. Anyway i wouldn't bore u guys anymore...cheers

[janth]

For those arguing on the basis of "just preference" can you please give one objective reason why you would prefer say a chinese to an indian apart from the fact that he is just chinese? If there is no objective reason then I think its called "Racism" and in the case of the singaporean chinese, its more of a "superiority complex". I think this sentiment is pervasive and has eroded the very fabric of the cingaporean community. Recently I told a colleague that I had not been to orchard this year and he said: "Don't go on sundays because its crowded with Philipino maids". It's one thing to say Its crowded on sundays, but his emphasis wasn't on the crowd but on the race involved...he wouldn"t mind if it was crowded by another race!!!

Everyone is entitled to his "choices" especially with intimate relationships, but I honestly think people here should open up. I'll let u know that I am black and considered the scum of the society. In the hierachical order of races, after you account for all the races, u probably need to include dogs, then comes 50 feet of shit and below that comes the blacks!!! Having lived in many continents, i can proudly say that singapore is the most racist environment i've been in (its just my opinion), especially in this community.. anyway i've given up any hope of finding friendship. Anyway i wouldn't bore u guys anymore...cheers

Dear Ben,

I apologise if my post offended you in anyway. As I did mention, interracial friendship is not out of the question for me, as is to many people. One thing I feel is that many in this community commonly equate friendship with relationship and when someone talks about friendships, relationships pop into mind. Indeed, Singapore is a highly racist country. But once again, it's a highly sensitive topic.

Personal preference is of course rather vague, but that's the best answer I can provide.

One other thing, here's the definition of racism:

Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.

As such, can I also claim that you are a racist? Of course, this definition would mean that all of us are racist in one way or another. So can I claim on such grounds that we are all equal, except that you're more self-deprecating?

I'm not trying to start a debate/argument/discussion on why Singaporeans are racist purely for the reason that it would keep this topic fresh.

I, for one, welcome all races into my home/country but I'm more selective of who's coming into my pants (no pun intended).

[sexiespider]

Hi,

If I may, let's take a step back. Why did I bring out this issue of race? - before I go on, the way we are discussing racism now is precisely why our government has denied discussion on racial issues - they fear that we do not know how to critically appreciate the issue, and I fear they might actually be right. Or it could be because of the years of us having repressed our critical thinking abilities of social issues, which is why we aren't able to do so.

I am going to be quite blunt here, and I hope that you can take an open mind to what I have to say. Whatever I say does not apply to you, but also to myself. I am also human, and I have my own judgments, which I am learning to overcome. So, please understand I'm trying to offer what I think could be an objective viewpoint, which at the same time, applies to me.

If you realise, many of us are trying to discuss about this issue from a perspective of - but I'm not racist, but from my point if view, this is not the case, but from where I am ... - sure, some of us might have preferences, sure. This article isn't a discussion about preferences. There are many, many reasons why people do not like people of certain races - sometimes it can be a preference, but sometimes, it's discrimination.

I had only brought out the viewpoint of discrimination because if it's a preference, there's nothing much to analyze - but as some of us have pointed out, even when we say it's a preference, sometimes there are underlying reasons besides preference which we do not understand.

And this is what some of us need to understand:

1. Our minds work is subconscious ways, and sometimes as much as we are aware of why we do certain things and justify that it is so, we simply do not have a deeper understanding of how our subconscious mind works - if we are not aware. And I brought this article up, because many of us are not aware of this subconscious thinking - and we enact racist attitudes upon others when we are not aware. Awareness is an ability that we acquire when we learn to see beyond ourselves and see into the lives if others, and when we are mindful. Many Singaporeans do not do this - and thus many Singaporeans do not understand our subconscious attitudes.

2. Please understand that I have also brought out this article to discuss the issue of race from a broad, structural and societal perspective. I'm not talking about you. If you notice, some of us are using - but this is not me, or but I - justifications to my article. First, this article isn't about you. It's about the broad community. And how the subconscious mind works and when on a broader level, the larger implications it has to how our community develops, or not. But - if you do feel a need to justify, then you need to understand this - what are we trying to justify? Do we actually hold subconscious attitudes which we aren't that much proud of, which we feel a need to justify and prove otherwise?

Again, before I discuss further - I'm not asking us to get angry at what I am saying. Whatever I am describing here, I make the same mistake as well. I judge at the same time about things and I'm trying very hard to understand them. Bit by bit, I tear down my judgments as I learn to understand why I have them. And sometimes, before I tear them down, I defend my position of judgment - by saying I don't, and by sometimes saying it's a preference, for example - but why? Because I do not want to see myself as a bad person, and so I want to justify myself.

I am saying this - if you stop being Chinese for a while (in the Singapore context) - if you try to live your life as a Malay, Indian, Black or even a White person in Singapore - yes, White people get discriminated here as well - then you will understand that the racist attitudes enacted on them is very, very real. It does not help that we are justifying our own personal attitudes when everyday, thousands of people who are not Chinese in Singapore are being looked at and given the idea that they are lesser people, that they are not good enough. Everyday, they tell themselves that they are lesser, that they are not good enough - simply because the Chinese think that, just because I am 70% of the population, I can walk around comfortably and be who I want to be, without a care of what others think.

I've spoken to many Malay and Indian gay people who think lowly of themselves, because already they find that acceptance as a gay person is hard, yet within the gay community, they face even more judgment as a gay person - how and where are they going to find the support they need to be who they can be, if even we don't give them that space?

If you are Chinese, have you been out of Singapore? Have you been to Australia or Europe? I've encountered people who held racist attitudes towards me. I've always known that there is racist sentiments in Singapore and that's why I try very very hard to understand why and see beyond my attitudes to look within. Imagine my horror when I had to be faced with people who would judge me, simply because I was yellow! And in my mind - I know I am a person just like them, just who I am. Why are they judging me? Was it preference? Was it?

I'm saying this - we don't have to defend our positions - that says something about us which we are not facing up to. What I'm saying is this - let's take an open mind and a broader understanding of this to truly and sincerely understand the lives of others. If you are Chinese in Singapore, can you try understanding what a Malay, Indian, Black or a person of any colour would feel? I've spoken to my friends who are of a different colour, and they do feel hurt and pain when they are judged by their colour. You can say it's a preference to them but when day in, day out, someone rejects them even the most subtly, can you tell them in their faces, it's alright? You need to get out of your zone?

What if, it is us who need to get out of our zone?

Edited November 9, 2012 by sexiespider

[typoshark]

Definition of preference:

a. The selecting of someone or something over another or others.

b. The right or chance to so choose.

c. Someone or something so chosen

Definition of racism is already stated above.

Simple example:

1)I choose to date another chinese because I feel more attracted to him and appreciate his qualities as a person. This is preference

2)I choose to date another chinese because I feel that the other races are inferior to mine, and that they would fare badly in the future in terms of career etc. This is racism

There is a blur line why I could be more attracted to a chinese than another race and it could be due to my subconsciousness as you mentioned. However I dont agree that this is racism unless I dissociate with anybody else besides my own race because I think that they are not good enough to be my friend/lover. I may prefer chinese guy A to chinese guy B in terms of looks, attitude, built and personality but does it mean I'm 'racist' too?

Btw, if you are using empathy as an excuse to like another race, that is racism.

And yes, i will tell it to their face it's alright, shit happens. If the other guy does not appreciate them due to his skin color, its that guy's loss. It's delusional if i were to instead persuade him to change the guy's preference. Rejections are inevitable, whether you are white/asian/black. Why not channel that agony into something far more productive, like looking for somebody who would like you rather than wallow in self pity due to your race.

Edited November 9, 2012 by typoshark

[abang]

I thought I had a terminal case of "Pinkerton"　disease when I was labelled as a 'potato' queen many years ago.

Racism - yes, it exists in any society.

And in the gay circle, it is very obvious.

I am no Cio-cio san/damsel-in-distress but I developed a strong preference for 洋菜 or Gay white man

- a term I picked up during my recent visit to Taiwan.

I was exposed to a more liberal learning environment where we had ang-mo teachers back in the 70s.

Yes, at the tender age of 14, I had my first crush over my ang-mo teachers.

As I grew up, the lingua franca has always been English.

Not that I was weak in Mandarin or Bahasa (I did well in school lah!) but I am more comfortable with English conversations.

Do I have Malay or Indian friends? Yes, I do.

I know personally there are many hunky Malay gay men around...

We communicate in English all the time. I get invited to their homes and share their food.

But that's all. It had been very platonic and never was there been a hint of lust... Well, at least not from me!

So racism or not, one should always follow the heart and be colour-blind.

Be oblivious to the snaring around us.

So what if a cute Malay/Indian guy has an equally-cute Chinese boyfriend?

Lastly, I wish to dedicate this song to everyone, racist or not.

[Guest Guest]

In the kaikans in tokyo, a lot of muscular goodlooking ang mohs were seen cruisng into the wee hours but still no takers.

Why? Japs prefer their own race - I guess. Racism?

Some ppl prefer 'viennese sausage' to 'franfurter, i dun think there is any racism involved.

Life is short, laugh it off & move on.

[gz69]

It is not racism but rather our choice of companions.

Some may not want to be intimate with another race but others may be open-minded. I am the open-minded type but with my own limits and preferences too. And because I travel widely, it has been an eye-opener to find gays in many societies and races. As for sex, well everyone is a human and so there will be much the same but it also nice to compare some intimate details.

One interesting "research" if I may say so is to ask them when they reached puberty or starting having gay sex. Or exchange some stories.

[Guest Guest]

Chemistry between 2 human beings is beyond racism.

[Flash]

This post is not a reply to the TS, just using his quote to emphasis something.

I am saying this - if you stop being Chinese for a while (in the Singapore context) - if you try to live your life as a Malay, Indian, Black or even a White person in Singapore - yes, White people get discriminated here as well - then you will understand that the racist attitudes enacted on them is very, very real. It does not help that we are justifying our own personal attitudes when everyday, thousands of people who are not Chinese in Singapore are being looked at and given the idea that they are lesser people, that they are not good enough. Everyday, they tell themselves that they are lesser, that they are not good enough - simply because the Chinese think that, just because I am 70% of the population, I can walk around comfortably and be who I want to be, without a care of what others think.

I've spoken to many Malay and Indian gay people who think lowly of themselves, because already they find that acceptance as a gay person is hard, yet within the gay community, they face even more judgment as a gay person- how and where are they going to find the support they need to be who they can be, if even we don't give them that space?

Shortened it there to highlight the main points.

I myself am an indian and honestly, i don't really think too much into racism or think lowly of myself at all one bit. I mean yes i do get racist attitudes directed towards me once in awhile but i tend to ignore them. It doesn't really affect me. But what got me really curious is within this community itself, there's this 'non-preference' to indians (more than malays i assume).

There has to be a reason why you prefer a chinese than an indian right? I'm not really trying to argue anything here neither am i 'angry' or upset, but i'm just really very curious to find out what exactly is the reason for not considering indians (or other races for that matter) when it comes to a real relationship (or even just sex)?

Sure many of you have highlighted you do indeed have a malay or indian friend around, thats great to know. But when it comes to a personal relationship with another guy, has the idea of 'this guy' being malay or indian ever crossed your minds? Do you actually consider them or you tell yourself its a definite no, you only prefer chinese.

Don't get me wrong, i am NOT calling anyone racist just because they 'prefer' chinese. I would just like to know what exactly about indians/malays makes you uncomfortable having a relationship with?

I don't normally get bothered by this until recently, i had 2 different chats online with members trying to chat with me to get to know me and just when they realise i'm indian (its stated in my profile already but i guess they didn't see that), the conversation stops and they are just 'not interested' anymore. Why? I have yet to show you my pic, you have yet to know me any better.

Thats all i wanted to highlight. I'm not really affected by all of this, just want to get a reply from those who prefer chinese to tell me their view on us indians thats all. I believe love happens when it happens, so i'll just carry on doing my own thing.

[Guest guest]

What is racist? Some like to eat vegetable, some like to eat meat. Vegetable eater called meat eater racist cause meat eater dont like to eat vegetable? Hello this is preference not racist, if the guy scold u in the suna due to your race when u go near him, then that is racist.

[Guest Mama don't preach]

You know something is wrong when there are lots of post on racism in the last few weeks or so.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what ticks the Indians and Malays off is the fact people don't reply to them, leaving them high and dry, and of course rejected. And since it pertains to race, they feel that they are being prejudiced against.

But let me enquire. Preference or not, wouldn't it be polite to just say you're not interested than to just blatantly ignore a message?

I feel that's the reason for unhappiness here, which is being mistaken for racism.

I for one have encountered umpteenth racism, and that doesn't necessarily piss me off anymore. But the lack of reply sorta annoy me.

But then again, it's my opinion, which may not resonate with others'

And on a side note, yea, what is it about minorities that, well, 'turns you off?'

I'm curious to know myself.

[TheVisitors]

So do you know what is really racism?

Being turned down , or rejected by another race, isn't racism but a preference over the other.

This is real racism I experienced, but you must be smart to counteract hem by knowing their weakness........

When I was leaving in NYC shortly a long time . met a Black guy who said to me in a Gay club...

" All Chinese are stupid and blind because they have such small eyes"

I looked at him and said " Really? But sorry beg to differ dude, Chinese aren't that as stupid as you think"

And he said " Well. Chinese are fxxkin stupid you know"

So I gave him a nice sly look and said to him

" If Chinese are that stupid, they can't be anymore stupid than you Black people. If you are so smart...you won't be caught and be Nigger slaves for the White people..'

That shut his mouth

Second incident in San Francisco

Was window shopping in a mall, and I came across a Steinway Grand piano, displayed in the Lobby.

It was those they placed it in the mall for some occasional performances.

Curious and excited because I own a Bechstein grand myself , I went over and touched its surfaced, then a male's voice shouted at me from behind

" Don't touch the piano ! " said this middle age Jewish guy, you know, whose who had the traditional hairstyle, with two long twirls of hair sticking out from the side.

I would presumed he was a security guard or the performer, who returned from his pee break

So I walked away quietly without a word, but he uttered behind my back " fxxking stupid Chinese"

I turned around, stared at him and said " You repeat what you just said"

Now, abit frightened being challenged, he reluctantly uttered the same phrase, and I gave him a nice cold laugh back

" What so funny?" he asked angrily

I looked into his eyes and said

" I was just thinking, it was such a pity that Hitler didn't stay long enough to do the rest of the world a favour, by wiping out the entire Jewish race...."

and walked away laughing to myself

He stood there wide mouth, totally dumbfounded and speechless...because the Holocaust the the most shameful part of the Jewish history

The two stories just wanna show : we all can live in peace by having higher tolerance of each other, without hurling insults about each other's race.

If you want to judge and hurt others,then others will also can, and have their reasons, more than enough to put you down, esp if your race has a history that you are ashamed of

[Guest Ben]

@ The visitor. Obviousy there are racist people everywhere, but saying that being turned down on the basis of race is not racism but only personal preference is fallacy. I joined a gay dating website sometime ago, and on many ocassions I came across people who seemed to have the same interest, and we do chat for a long time (all the while not asking questions about race)...however, whenever i mention i am black...they immediately stop replying....pray tell, if we seemed to have a "chemistry" from our conversation, why would the question of race change anything? Answer= Racial discrimination

You've given two examples of people making racist comments to you... well i'm black in singapore, and i've received lots of racially offensive remarks. I have also been racially stereotyped a lot even by the police...i've been stopped a couple of times and asked for my documents even in the mrt. The most painful to me was hearing something from a pastor in the church i attend...he didn't realize there was a black person present in the small gathering. Even the "aunties" in the hawker centres have made racially offensive remarks. Just last month i was on a queue to get food and the lady suddenly starts accusing me of taking something from her stall...meanwhile i was behind about 7 chinese people on the queue....for some reason, being black means that anything that gets missing must have been taken by me.

Anyway, I guess the reason it pains me a lot is cos I really love singaporean guys...think they r one of the hottest i've met...and i don't need to get into ur pants, just asking for friendship. Well thankfully i'm counting down

[Guest Guest]

I don't understand why so many singaporeans are racist to us the filipinos. we can speak english, we are cultured and educated unlike the prcs. I won't deny that some of the filipinos, especially whose education level is lower, are quite 'loud' in public but that just shows we are a friendly race of people. what's our fault? i like singaporean guys but i'm disgusted by some of the singaporeans racist behaviour.

[Guest maxiplay]

For some gay people, we feel that as a gay person, we feel lesser of ourselves – because we cannot accept ourselves or yet to fully accept ourselves. And when that happens, we will do things which will compensate for that. As I’ve discussed before, one way we do it is to associate ourselves with certain people who we think have certain ‘status’ – or so we think – within the gay community, and so by associating ourselves with them, we feel that our ‘status’ is uplifted, and this makes us feel more accepted of ourselves – we use external factors to resolve the inner lower acceptance levels that we have towards ourselves. For some Chinese guys, they would not want to associate themselves with other Malay or Indian guys because they feel that, if Malays or Indians are already discriminated in society, by associating with them, this makes my ‘status’ lesser. By all means, this does not apply to all Chinese people. And this does also happen the other way around. ***** But what’s truly happening here? For some gay people, they might not be able to come to terms with themselves and this is a strong self-stigma that they perpetuate on themselves. Any other perceived discrimination that they feel society might enact on them will much further accentuate this self-stigma that they already has. And thus, they feel that, by association, associating with people who they feel face discrimination, means also bringing on this discrimination that others face onto themselves, which means deepening the lack of acceptance for themselves. In effect, they are trying to reduce their lower acceptance levels for themselves by associating with people of higher ‘status’ and by disassociating from others who are perceived as facing other forms of stigma, this will prevent them from facing further stresses. Unfortunately, our fellow Malay and Indian gay people have to face this added stigma – in part due to the coping mechanisms of others that they have subconsciously devised to deal with the low self acceptance levels. Sometimes, I find this disappointing because if we are in a position where we know how it feels to be discriminated, all the more we should know not to discriminate against others. But this isn’t the case for some – if we are yet to be able to come to terms with ourselves, we will seek out other sources of affirmation for ourselves (by seeking out people ‘of status’) and reduce our association with others whom are perceived as discriminated. ***** If this is something that’s happening to you, what can you do? If you understand that some people might disassociate themselves from you because of their discomfort with themselves, you know that it’s not something that they are doing because of you. It’s something that they need to overcome. So don’t let it affect you. Understand that they need their time to find out more about themselves and come to terms with themselves. It’s not that they cannot accept who you are. It’s because they cannot accept who they are. So you have to respect that they are in their journey towards finding out more about themselves and you need to give them that time and space to grow. But if we are unhappy still, then it says more about us. If we are unhappy that someone cannot accept us, then we need to understand and think about this – is there something we cannot accept about ourselves? Because if we believe in ourselves, we would know that if others cannot accept us, we would understand and know our worth to believe and have faith in when we are, and know not to allow the judgment of others to affect us. What of those who judge – or actually, those of us who are unable to accept ourselves? Then, we need to understand how we use the distinction that we make among people, to define who we are, and how we use these external influences to cater for an inner need that we have. We need to understand this because it has implications on how we react towards others, and how we might cause hurt towards them by our sometimes subconscious thoughts and actions. Then, we need to learn to look within ourselves to understand why we are unable to accept ourselves and work around our internal feelings, so as to truly understand and gain acceptance towards ourselves. http://myrighttolove.com/2012/11/06/racism-within-the-singapore-gay-community/

爲什麽要長篇大論，簡單就好。爲什麽要Show off 你的"蜘蛛文字"??

[TheVisitors]

@ The visitor. Obviousy there are racist people everywhere, but saying that being turned down on the basis of race is not racism but only personal preference is fallacy. I joined a gay dating website sometime ago, and on many ocassions I came across people who seemed to have the same interest, and we do chat for a long time (all the while not asking questions about race)...however, whenever i mention i am black...they immediately stop replying....pray tell, if we seemed to have a "chemistry" from our conversation, why would the question of race change anything? Answer= Racial discrimination

You've given two examples of people making racist comments to you... well i'm black in singapore, and i've received lots of racially offensive remarks. I have also been racially stereotyped a lot even by the police...i've been stopped a couple of times and asked for my documents even in the mrt. The most painful to me was hearing something from a pastor in the church i attend...he didn't realize there was a black person present in the small gathering. Even the "aunties" in the hawker centres have made racially offensive remarks. Just last month i was on a queue to get food and the lady suddenly starts accusing me of taking something from her stall...meanwhile i was behind about 7 chinese people on the queue....for some reason, being black means that anything that gets missing must have been taken by me.

Anyway, I guess the reason it pains me a lot is cos I really love singaporean guys...think they r one of the hottest i've met...and i don't need to get into ur pants, just asking for friendship. Well thankfully i'm counting down

Firstly I do feel really sorry for you, that is because Black people are actually one of the most misunderstood races of all times.

I really like Black comedy and the Black culture is actually very vibrant if you put away your fears, not to judge them.

I think to a very large extent, the media has distorted the image of Black people, to that of the oucast underdogs, who steals. murder, and are drug pushers.

In States, Black people also discriminated in States that they are denied the dignity and the rights the White people enjoys.

When I was living in NYC a long time ago, I do have friends living in the Ghettos of Queens and Bronx. I go there without fear and any prejudge, nothing never happen to me before that.

Every few years, I do take a trip to the States and I can tell you, the Black people are more real more truthful when they interact with you.

I find the White ones are more pretentious.

I have ever went to CapeTown, Johannesburg, and Durban.

I have visited the children in the slums in Sowateo, and I find, the Black culture and the Black people are so beautiful and vibrant.

I played and danced with those children there, who are as beutiful as the Sunflowers smiling in the sun......

Black people are not stupid, I have this photography book, which is a collection of wisdom from 75 Black Women who changed the American Society. They were Black Women who contributed back to the Society, like Mavis Collins and Tori Morrisone. Everytime I turn to any of the pages there, I learn so much thoughts and wisdom from those beautiful Black women

http://www.amazon.com/Dream-World-Portraits-Changed-America/dp/1556708882

If you really don't like someone, judge their personalities and characters which they displayed and how they treat others and themselves, and not by their religion, nor by the colour of their skin, for they didn't choose to be born that particular race for you to judge, or to belittle.

[TheVisitors]

I don't understand why so many singaporeans are racist to us the filipinos. we can speak english, we are cultured and educated unlike the prcs. I won't deny that some of the filipinos, especially whose education level is lower, are quite 'loud' in public but that just shows we are a friendly race of people. what's our fault? i like singaporean guys but i'm disgusted by some of the singaporeans racist behaviour.

Don't worry. One of my best friend is a Pinoy.

If their politicians had handled the country well, there won't be poverty and unemployment, forcing people to migrate out of their own land, just for survival sake

Singaporeans are too spoilt and myopic, they should really count their blessings instead of complaining so much.

[sexiespider]

Hi,

Let me chime in on the issue again. The reason why I brought this issue up is because of this - I wanted to bring a perspective to the table so that we can think more broadly and deeply about this issue.

See - do people judge another by colour, and by extension by the habits, behaviours or thoughts attached to them? Yes, we might. But equally, we judge not only based on these but on many other characteristics - height, weight, looks, dressing, educational status, penis length, body structure, presence of abs, whether someone wears specs, whether someone looks nerdy or not. Sometimes this 'judgment' might be a form of preference. But sometimes, it becomes discrimination when we imbue our own ideas of what a person is, based on what we think about them, instead of who they really are.

So, are there preferences? There are. Is there discrimination? There is.

I think we need to do one thing here. At this point, we need to critically understand and appreciate that there are people who judge us, based on the physical characteristics that they see about us, and possibly other related characteristics. This exists because of this - humans are self-centred beings who judge others, in relation to themselves. If you are different from me, I would find it discomforting. Why? Because I am not used to it.

What can be done is if we can understand that differences can be appreciated, and not looked at negatively. This means looking beyond ourselves, and seeing people for who they are. It means having empathy.

I brought out the issue of race, or rather, skin colour, because it is one issue that stands out. I know many of us here have different perspectives to it - we have our individual perspectives. Some of us think there's racism. Some don't. But in reality, is there? The fact is, there is. So, I think, we can be quite honest about it. Some people here might say - but I don't discriminate according to skin colour, or that I don't feel discrimination. I think that's good. That means we can be the ones to help educate others on this issue.

But I think we have got to look at ourselves - as a community - and be really honest about this - there are people who judge and discriminate, be it according to colour or other characteristics. If that's the case, if we are aware of these, how can we, for ourselves, be reflective, understand why and not enact discrimination upon others, and at the same time, learn to manage discrimination impacted on us, positively?

And if we do not discriminate, and are aware that there are people who do - because there are people who do - how can we be responsible and point it out to others, to educate them? How can we look out for people who are discriminated upon, and speak to them to help them along?

What I am saying is this - people discriminate. It's human nature to judge, as we look at others in relation to ourselves. We judge because we want to think we are better than another, whether we are aware of it or not, and whether it's in our subconscious. We have a responsibility to be aware of this and to treat another person with the same understanding we want others to give us, so that we can treat them with respect, so that they can go on in their lives, feeling respected, as we would want others to treat us. This is what I am saying.

Some of us are discussing about this issue from our own point of view. What if we look at the larger picture? Do we want to look at the larger picture? What we think and say has a larger impact on others, on society, and on the gay community. There are people of different colours who find it difficult to be gay, and yet be of a colour that might not be looked upon as favourably, though some people get by well. Where is our responsibility to ensure that another person doesn't have to go through the pain that we go through as well, for whatever characteristics we are judged upon?

I am saying this - can we look broader? Can we look beyond ourselves? Can we learn to empathise with another and to make their lives easier, just at the same as when we want to make our lives easier? Can we understand how our thoughts and actions have an impact on others as well, and how they go on in their lives?

Edited November 12, 2012 by sexiespider

[Guest Guest]

爲什麽要長篇大論，簡單就好。爲什麽要Show off 你的"蜘蛛文字"??

I hope he's not like that when he's making love

I m already 'luo so' but he's more accomplished than me.

Congrats!

I think others see intellectulism as an attractivness, but in this case it's like 'cough blood'

[Clickclock]

Greetings Sexiespider,

Racism is a natural thing that happens in the minds of Heterosexual as well as Homosexual people. Sexual attraction is a tool brought up and magnified in organisms throughout history to pass down genes for a species to continue to survive and prevent its extinction, its a result of natural selection (animals that have low libido copulate less and thus went extinct eventually due to low birth rates).

In our evolutionary history in being a species, there's such a thing as kin preference. It ties in with the primitive idea of "survival of the fittest, (or most adaptable at any one time). A group of animals that exhibit a familiar genetic trait (eg. long necks, or skin variation) will tend to favor its kin over the others, its the way nature favors a gene to be passed down effectively.

To put it simply, Racism is unavoidable, If you are a human being, or any animal to be exact, you will definitely bear some sort of degree of racism in your mind, Just like sexual attraction, we have evolved to have minds that subconsciously favor people who look similar.

I don't think the question is about racism due to their backgrounds, (religion, language, etc), it's more about their physical appearance, after all, its a sexual question.

We all live in a multiracial community where racial harmony is a thing to be promoted, but when it comes to sexual selection between people, I don't think a racist-biased mind should be condemned since its something natural and its more of a personal matter. A person should be with another that makes him happy, no matter what. If a person's sexual attraction is altered or warped by racists thoughts, so what? It is a personal matter and rejecting someone (eg, first date/chat) due to his race is a step to finding who you feel comfortable with to be happy.

Rejection should be seen as a good thing when it comes to finding a partner, its just a process of filtering out the unsuitable ones. It will seem cruel, but the sexual attraction is sexual attraction, be it racist or not, you can't fault something that is natural after all.

[Guest Guest]

@ The visitor. Obviousy there are racist people everywhere, but saying that being turned down on the basis of race is not racism but only personal preference is fallacy. I joined a gay dating website sometime ago, and on many ocassions I came across people who seemed to have the same interest, and we do chat for a long time (all the while not asking questions about race)...however, whenever i mention i am black...they immediately stop replying....pray tell, if we seemed to have a "chemistry" from our conversation, why would the question of race change anything? Answer= Racial discrimination

You've given two examples of people making racist comments to you... well i'm black in singapore, and i've received lots of racially offensive remarks. I have also been racially stereotyped a lot even by the police...i've been stopped a couple of times and asked for my documents even in the mrt. The most painful to me was hearing something from a pastor in the church i attend...he didn't realize there was a black person present in the small gathering. Even the "aunties" in the hawker centres have made racially offensive remarks. Just last month i was on a queue to get food and the lady suddenly starts accusing me of taking something from her stall...meanwhile i was behind about 7 chinese people on the queue....for some reason, being black means that anything that gets missing must have been taken by me.

Anyway, I guess the reason it pains me a lot is cos I really love singaporean guys...think they r one of the hottest i've met...and i don't need to get into ur pants, just asking for friendship. Well thankfully i'm counting down

I m also sorril for the treatment you recieved here.

When I was 16 & suicidal, a black pastor came n pray with me the nite I was about to jump down from my hotel.

One of my best friend in college was also black.

I like Oprah & prefer black singers cause they have more soul.

Thank you for your comments.

Hope you would be treated with more kindness & dignity from now on.

[Guest Guest]

I don't understand why so many singaporeans are racist to us the filipinos. we can speak english, we are cultured and educated unlike the prcs. I won't deny that some of the filipinos, especially whose education level is lower, are quite 'loud' in public but that just shows we are a friendly race of people. what's our fault? i like singaporean guys but i'm disgusted by some of the singaporeans racist behaviour.

I think Pinoys are very attractive & I watch 144 TFC Channel for the actors - Gerald Anderson, Jake Cuena & hottie Richard Yap(though he 's chinese). Also most are good singers, too.

I think if you noticed the locals are more reserved & mtob & the pinoys are more passionate & expressive. Therefore it's a 'fire & ice' situation here.

In San Franciso, on bus38 Geary, I witnessed an irate white woman said to the passengers(mainly chinese) around her that "you should speak english coz you are in the states." She was deeply distressed because the bus was noisy with Asian dialects - Cantonese, Mandarin, etc. From then on, I would make an effort to converse in English with my chinese friends. I dun want others to misinterpret that I was badmouthing others in a language foreign to them.

[Guest eBayUrChild]

For some gay people, we feel that as a gay person, we feel lesser of ourselves – because we cannot accept ourselves or yet to fully accept ourselves. And when that happens, we will do things which will compensate for that.

As I’ve discussed before, one way we do it is to associate ourselves with certain people who we think have certain ‘status’ – or so we think – within the gay community, and so by associating ourselves with them, we feel that our ‘status’ is uplifted, and this makes us feel more accepted of ourselves – we use external factors to resolve the inner lower acceptance levels that we have towards ourselves.

For some Chinese guys, they would not want to associate themselves with other Malay or Indian guys because they feel that, if Malays or Indians are already discriminated in society, by associating with them, this makes my ‘status’ lesser. By all means, this does not apply to all Chinese people. And this does also happen the other way around.

*****

But what’s truly happening here? For some gay people, they might not be able to come to terms with themselves and this is a strong self-stigma that they perpetuate on themselves. Any other perceived discrimination that they feel society might enact on them will much further accentuate this self-stigma that they already has. And thus, they feel that, by association, associating with people who they feel face discrimination, means also bringing on this discrimination that others face onto themselves, which means deepening the lack of acceptance for themselves. In effect, they are trying to reduce their lower acceptance levels for themselves by associating with people of higher ‘status’ and by disassociating from others who are perceived as facing other forms of stigma, this will prevent them from facing further stresses.

Unfortunately, our fellow Malay and Indian gay people have to face this added stigma – in part due to the coping mechanisms of others that they have subconsciously devised to deal with the low self acceptance levels.

Sometimes, I find this disappointing because if we are in a position where we know how it feels to be discriminated, all the more we should know not to discriminate against others. But this isn’t the case for some – if we are yet to be able to come to terms with ourselves, we will seek out other sources of affirmation for ourselves (by seeking out people ‘of status’) and reduce our association with others whom are perceived as discriminated.

*****

If this is something that’s happening to you, what can you do? If you understand that some people might disassociate themselves from you because of their discomfort with themselves, you know that it’s not something that they are doing because of you. It’s something that they need to overcome. So don’t let it affect you. Understand that they need their time to find out more about themselves and come to terms with themselves. It’s not that they cannot accept who you are. It’s because they cannot accept who they are. So you have to respect that they are in their journey towards finding out more about themselves and you need to give them that time and space to grow.

But if we are unhappy still, then it says more about us. If we are unhappy that someone cannot accept us, then we need to understand and think about this – is there something we cannot accept about ourselves? Because if we believe in ourselves, we would know that if others cannot accept us, we would understand and know our worth to believe and have faith in when we are, and know not to allow the judgment of others to affect us.

What of those who judge – or actually, those of us who are unable to accept ourselves? Then, we need to understand how we use the distinction that we make among people, to define who we are, and how we use these external influences to cater for an inner need that we have. We need to understand this because it has implications on how we react towards others, and how we might cause hurt towards them by our sometimes subconscious thoughts and actions. Then, we need to learn to look within ourselves to understand why we are unable to accept ourselves and work around our internal feelings, so as to truly understand and gain acceptance towards ourselves.

http://myrighttolove...-gay-community/

[escapade]

Its just a preference. As a Chinese myself, I would prefer chinese. I don't even go for Caucasians!

[riverrobles]

There is racism in the gay community, its very obvious even here in BW.

If ever BW member makes any racist comment or post, just report the person or the post. Ignore the member , done deal.

[Guest Guest]

I'll drag this thread up for another try.

 

I come from a similar demographicked city with similar attitudes towards multiculturalism, and I expected something similar that I'm not finding here, and in fact SG comes across as being far more racist than what I initally imagined SG to be. I leave it here as I keep getting blocked but I find you guys to be OTT racist in comparison to what I'm used to - even in comparison to much of Europe!

[Guest Guest]

choosing chocolate over vanilla is a preference.

 

choosing chicken over beef is a preference.

 

saying no to other races because you don't like them is racism. stop disguising racism as preference. and i'm more disturbed by the fact that you don't even see it, more than the racism itself.

 My issue is mainly to do with SG culture and the way it views Indians, especially considering my life in a city with similar demographics and history I've had. But apparently it's too racial.   

[Guest Guest]

My issue is mainly to do with SG culture and the way it views Indians, especially considering my life in a city with similar demographics and history I've had. But apparently it's too racial.

Why did you mentioned Indians and not other races? Singapore has an Indian Deputy Prime Minister and a Foreign and Law Minister. Malaysia?

[bodybuildMLY]

I'll drag this thread up for another try.

I come from a similar demographicked city with similar attitudes towards multiculturalism, and I expected something similar that I'm not finding here, and in fact SG comes across as being far more racist than what I initally imagined SG to be. I leave it here as I keep getting blocked but I find you guys to be OTT racist in comparison to what I'm used to - even in comparison to much of Europe!

No one has ever question: why a person would have a preference? How does that preference come about?

Some reasons may be due to (a) personal experience / perceptions, (b) sub-conscious beliefs from others' beliefs / words / thoughts, © media, etc, etc.

[EasleyLim]

Oh this ought to be good.

 

[Guest Glyph]

choosing chocolate over vanilla is a preference.

 

choosing chicken over beef is a preference.

 

saying no to other races because you don't like them is racism. stop disguising racism as preference. and i'm more disturbed by the fact that you don't even see it, more than the racism itself.

 

So I'm gay, and prefer men over women. I'm sexist now? Surely you jest.

 

It doesn't mean you're any subpar, but it just so happens that I -cannot-, on a personal level, sleep with someone of a different skin (or doesn't have a D). We could be the bestest of best friends, but no, it's not happening. You get the drift?

 

Or maybe we're just all racists / sexists. We could go on forever.

 

I'll drag this thread up for another try.

 

I come from a similar demographicked city with similar attitudes towards multiculturalism, and I expected something similar that I'm not finding here, and in fact SG comes across as being far more racist than what I initally imagined SG to be. I leave it here as I keep getting blocked but I find you guys to be OTT racist in comparison to what I'm used to - even in comparison to much of Europe!

 My issue is mainly to do with SG culture and the way it views Indians, especially considering my life in a city with similar demographics and history I've had. But apparently it's too racial.   

You could go back to where you came from, just saying.

[EasleyLim]

I say we should at least give him a chance to post whatever is it that he wanted. It could prove insightful.

[Guest Guest]

Why did you mentioned Indians and not other races? Singapore has an Indian Deputy Prime Minister and a Foreign and Law Minister. Malaysia?

 

I'm from fucking London, in my head Singapore is an Oriental London lol. albeit I was told that it was less racist and more homophobic.

 

I'm also freaked about how you guys are towards Indians. It's not how I'm used to being treated.

 

Wah wah , tbh I think Malay guys are quite hot , esp those with abs and their smell is just amazing.

 

I can't actually tell the difference most of the times. I'm not colourist and I have never really come across colourism before, and I can't really segregate Orientals on skin colour. Most of the time my head falls to classism before anything else.

 

BTW It's actually distressing how I'm getting so much perceived colourism and sexual racism off you guys; I'm unsure how much 1D/The Wanted is distorting what I'm seeing but SG looks more colourist either way.

 

No one has ever question: why a person would have a preference? How does that preference come about?

Some reasons may be due to (a) personal experience / perceptions, (b) sub-conscious beliefs from others' beliefs / words / thoughts, © media, etc, etc.

 

IDK. I have neutralish social reasons (friends, neighbourhood, etc) for most of my preferences. British racism may play a role, but my initial reaction was "wow, my racial preferences matches British racism lol!" so it's probably the other way around, though racism may have played a role in how I got to know my friends and chose my neighbourhoods.

[Guest Glyph]

I say we should at least give him a chance to post whatever is it that he wanted. It could prove insightful.

We already did. And have given him a second chance at it here, but he has yet again failed to substantiate how he derived us as being OTT racists. What? Did someone cut open his head and disturb his brain because of his skin colour?

[Guest Guest]

We already did. And have given him a second chance at it here, but he has yet again failed to substantiate how he derived us as being OTT racists. What? Did someone cut open his head and disturb his brain because of his skin colour?

 

I don't usually feel this shit off gay people. It's distressing as such racism flips how I view what's happening around me (media, etc) as I usually feel that Indians are sexually superior to blacks (and slightly kinda North Indians*). Brits are supposedly far more sexually liberal but I'm not sure if that means anything.

 

I have only ever seen Caucasians in relationships with Orientals and Indians, and I have never even seen a black gay in London. This is coming from someone who has been to several gay events, communities, and detoured his commute/travels past several gay bars/clubs every-fucking-day.

 

*I certainly haven't come across racism that makes me feel inferior to North Indians from gay Brits, and imo it's ridiculous that a supposedly less racist city is where I'm finding the most colourism from. I'm not sure superior is the best word to use, though it's in the same ballpark.

[Guest Glyph]

I don't usually feel this shit off gay people. It's distressing as such racism flips how I view what's happening around me (media, etc) as I usually feel that Indians are sexually superior to blacks (and slightly kinda North Indians*). Brits are supposedly far more sexually liberal but I'm not sure if that means anything.

 

I have only ever seen Caucasians in relationships with Orientals and Indians, and I have never even seen a black gay in London. This is coming from someone who has been to several gay events, communities, and detoured his commute/travels past several gay bars/clubs every-fucking-day.

 

*I certainly haven't come across racism that makes me feel inferior to North Indians from gay Brits, and imo it's ridiculous that a supposedly less racist city is where I'm finding the most colourism from. I'm not sure superior is the best word to use, though it's in the same ballpark.

An exemplary instance of pot calling the kettle black, no pun intended. I don't know what gave you the idea that Indians are sexually superior as compared to African(s) [Americans], but the only thing you're telling me is that you're a racist, possibly an OTT one at that. And you have the cheek to come here and pass off a statement calling Singaporeans the same? Who died and made you judge, jury, and prosecutor?

[Guest Guest]

An exemplary instance of pot calling the kettle black, no pun intended. I don't know what gave you the idea that Indians are sexually superior as compared to African(s) [Americans], but the only thing you're telling me is that you're a racist, possibly an OTT one at that. And you have the cheek to come here and pass off a statement calling Singaporeans the same? Who died and made you judge, jury, and prosecutor?

 

OTT racists towards INDIANS. I'm talking about my experiences from London and Britain in general. We have a medium black population but there's nothing in British culture to suggest that blacks are more liked than Indians so I've never thought about it; it's a bit like being an Indian girl and thinking the same thing. I'd say that blacks are actually on the receiving end of quite a lot of racism - and you're speaking to the only kid at school who'd go to Notting Hill Carnival so don't play the race card on me - I'm liberal at heart.

 

I wouldn't feel so agitated by you guys if there wasn't a problem, would I?

[Guest Guest]

Could these things happen in SG that happened in London: If I went to a club guys would hit on me. If I went cruising I would pull. Randomers hitting on me during my commute. At no point in London did I actively worry about colourism due to gay Brits. 

[Guest Glyph]

Could these things happen in SG that happened in London: If I went to a club guys would hit on me. If I went cruising I would pull. Randomers hitting on me during my commute. At no point in London did I actively worry about colourism due to gay Brits. 

 

Sure, if you look like any of these:

 

 

And you were saying?

[Guest Guest]

Sure, if you look like any of these:

 

 

 

And you were saying?

 

And you were saying about racism? I know for sure that blacks are placed below Indians, even the sheer void of White-Black relationships in comparison to White-Indian and even White-Oriental. And hell no I've never felt below a Pakistani in Britain, one could argue that they were the most discriminated against in Britain - even in the USA!

 

And they are hardly pretty. I went to an all-boy school so my facebook is pretty male, but I have never come across blacks being called attractive - even those who do are usually lower class chavs. And please don't forget that Britain is part of Europe's metrosexual/feminine style, blacks don't really fit in there.

 

+ That Oriental dude to the bottom left looks chavvy as fuck. The only vauegly attractive one is the one top-right, but slim is more attractive.

[Guest Glyph]

So you do understand that people have differing preferences, and that it's not all just skin that determines if you get laid. Is there nothing you see beyond this superficiality?

 

In the first place, how is this racism? Did someone in SG do something that explicitly tells you you're inferior based on your colour? Or do you need to see a shrink for your inferiority complex?

 

We're Asians, and truth be told not many of us make the first move. That is culture here, deal with it.

[snowball]

If someone not into you or accept you as a part of them, just move on, no point complain and nag like a loser .

do you give a shit when you are not interested in that person?

Edited June 9, 2015 by snowball

[Guest Guest]

So you do understand that people have differing preferences, and that it's not all just skin that determines if you get laid. Is there nothing you see beyond this superficiality?

I never mentioned colourism by itself. But Singapore does appear to be far more colourist.

 

It's actually distressing how I'm getting so much perceived colourism and sexual racism off you guys;

 

Colourism has historically existed throughout Asia. I don't think the sudden appearance of skin whitening products a Brit would see landing at Changi is evidence of anything else.

 

if someone not into you or accept you as a part of them, just move on, no point complain and nag like a loser, why must everyone must like you in the first place, who are you

 

It's more to do with a sheer lack of Indian-Oriental stuff happening. A less racist forum may have actually pointed me in directions towards Singaporean Indian-Oriental stuff. I'm not suggesting people like me in particular - I doubt most people who read this know who I am (and that's what I want), I'm looking into Oriental-Indian being so seemingly barren here.

[Guest Glyph]

It's more to do with a sheer lack of Indian-Oriental stuff happening. A less racist forum may have actually pointed me in directions towards Singaporean Indian-Oriental stuff. I'm not suggesting people like me in particular - I doubt most people who read this know who I am (and that's what I want), I'm looking into Oriental-Indian being so seemingly barren here.

 

That's the last straw, dear Guest. BW welcomes all, and that is explicitly stated in the forum guidelines here.

 

If you do not see a forum that directs you to a "Singaporean Indian-Oriental stuff" as racist, then you clearly need to redefine your perspective.

 

At Blowing Wind, we do not segregate users based on any inherent attributes. If you think that's racist, I don't know how to help you.

 

Any further posts made by you will be removed.

[Guest Guest]

If you do not see a forum that directs you to a "Singaporean Indian-Oriental stuff" as racist, then you clearly need to redefine your perspective.

 

First, this sentence is hogswallop.

 

Second, I see a forum that shows me anything but Indian-Oriental stuff, when querying something about racism in a city with a majority Oriental population, as pointless racism. Surely someone would have pointed out to me the odd positives Singapore's LGBT community has done towards Indians?