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Why Some Gays Don't Date Feminine Gays? Sissy Hatred And The Love Of Straight-Actors + Am I A Serious Homophobe Of Sissy Gays? (Compiled)


Guest Zaihan Kariyani

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Good morning everyone,

I'm brand new to Blowing Wind, and as I read through posts and just observed the topics and discussions, two terms tended to pop up a lot: straight-acting and sissy.

The first is heavily desired, seen as superior. The second, viewed like a plague. And that bothered me.

I'll admit now that I'm somewhat effeminate, or 'soft', depending on the person judging me. Yeah, I'm no macho man, but it doesn't make me less of a person. Just as being gay doesn't make us less worthy as human beings.

We all really need to stop with the "sissy" bashing here, but perhaps we need to first understand why we're so critical of those who are effeminate.

sissy |ˈsɪsi| informal

noun ( pl. -sies)

a person regarded as effeminate or cowardly.

chiefly offensive an effeminate homosexual.

effeminate |ɪˈfɛmɪnət|

adjective

(of a man) having or showing characteristics regarded as typical of a woman; unmanly.

It's interesting to see how feminine traits are paired with cowardliness and lack of manhood. Of course, many will argue that a gay man wants a man, not a woman. I'll also admit that I myself do find a masculine disposition attractive.

I did ask myself why, many times. There were a lot of really nice, gorgeous and interesting men out there that I didn't feel as attracted to because their mannerisms leaned towards girlishness.

This goes beyond the sexual context, because the bashing or rejection occurs even when sex is not an issue. I've experienced it myself.

The following excerpt in Madonna's "What It Feels Like For A Girl", made me think about this aversion to 'sissy' mannerism when I first heard it.

Girls can wear jeans

And cut their hair short

Wear shirts and boots

'Cause it's okay to be a boy

But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading

'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading

But secretly you'd love to know what it's like

Wouldn't you

What it feels like for a girl

Perhaps it goes back to our ingrained misogyny, that men are superior to women — in particular, a man who aspires, or appears to aspire, to be like a woman is especially terrible. The mentality of, "Why would you want to be like the weaker gender? That's so silly! Be a real man!"

I believe that a GLBT calling another a sissy is no better than the people who call us faggots. Yes, attraction is complex and we like what we like, but there is no need to insult what we don't.

And for that matter, scrap saying straight-acting. That's like saying "cat that pretends it's a dog". If you want a manly, masculine or rugged guy, just say so. I'm sure you don't want someone who denies who he is.

So, do you feel like slapping or punching my face already? Let me know your take on this.

Edited by Zaihan Kariyani
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I don't particularly hate sissies, but I can't stand hags/queens (the ones that take it too far). Anyway, my main issue with effeminate men is that they are inevitably reinforcing the straight-folk stereotype that all gays are limp-wristed queens. Worse still, I have this friend who thinks that gay men are gender-confused (i.e. women trapped in mens' bodies), which is why "they all are girly" (in her words).

So yeah, it is frustrating for regular gay men like myself who just happen to like men and aren't effeminate.

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I agree with you. I dislike seeing the gay community bash each other over such things.

I know of this gay guy back in my secondary school days who just had an effeminate demeanor. I don't think he could help it, and he got bullied just for being who he is. So they have get enough shit from hetero's, and to get some from straight-acting homo's? Overkill.

But there are definitely those who take it over the top, and this applies to any kind of stereotype out there. For effeminate guy, some act like total queens and what not. I understand natural effeminacy (and it can be attractive actually), but I can't help but get annoyed when I see someone shitting rainbows. However we just need to bite our tongue. It's going to happen because there are people who feel like doing it. Should we bash transsexuals next? No. Just gotto accept it and support each other. If not, we're not really much different to the people who have reprimanded us for who we are.

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Jayy, don't you think that you're projecting frustrations about society's and your friend's hangups onto the "hags/queens"? Of course, the painting of gay men with one giant brush of campness and gender confusion is indeed unfair, but it does beg the question: why is the idea of being associated with limp-wristed queens and girly men so off-putting?

TheAntisen, shitting rainbows sounds painful, haha! You mentioned "total queens and what not" take it over the top, and I'd ask: how about the ultra butch men who act way more macho than they really are? Is there as much disdain for them?

Somehow I see it as a fear of emasculation — evidence that a man can lose his masculinity, being projected onto ourselves. Or perhaps the view that a woman is simply a lesser man, which explains some of the general disdain. Maybe it's how they don't satisfy the psychological need to define what a man and a woman are.

Like you said, TheAntisen, the piling of gay shit on top of straight shit is overkill. I'm not saying you have to love and celebrate the effeminate, but to consider being decent human beings. We have our preferences of course, but there's no need to be a prick about what we're not fond of.

Before we are gay, straight, bisexual, transexual or transgender; macho, girly, womanly or boyish; fat, thin, young or old; we are human.

Edited by Zaihan Kariyani
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Lol ZK! Given your level of openness and acceptance, its a wonder why you haven't found a boyfriend yet! Very few men are as understanding as him.

I personally like effeminate men over macho men. I prefer sensitive, romantic and caring 'sissy' boys to an insensitive muscle bag- either homophobic or players. Generalization, I know. But admit it, it is the case right?

Sianz.

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Guest Guest

I simply feels replused by sissies. It is not a conscious feeling, I just do. Maybe it is built into my mind to like masculine men. Even when they are nasty, I still cannot help myself being drawn to them.

So on the reverse side I dislike sissies not matter how they chase after me and are very nice.

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

TopLTR, I'd say that while generally I'm open and accepting, the critical side of me probably doesn't sit well with people. Then again, everyone has their hangups.

Those insensitive muscle bags you say are homophobic or players... I wouldn't blame them for being players. Most get more attention than they can handle, which naturally inflates the ego.

And Guest, I'm not asking you to like them, but that subconscious repulsion you feel; do you not wonder why?

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Guest Mr Sissy

generally I'm open and accepting, the critical side of me probably doesn't sit well with people.

Sissy, in general could means (my take): a broken wrist or a womanly face. Either one will not sit well in the...courting world. You can have muscular bot with broken wrist or womanly face. You can also be a skinny bod with broken wrist or womanly face. Both is considred sissy with different people perspective. It has nothing to do with sizes or muscles.

However, sissy can also be compensated with a very good-look or handsome face. If you have that "look" that kills for a celebrity, people might also come after you regardless how sissy you are (like david gan?) If you don't, than it boils down to the most important thing to make you attractive and that is you should "never act like a queen". Carry yourselves well in manner and etique. Sissy can be quite attractive if you speak sensibly, humble and be quick to apologise if people felt you are in the wrong. A helpful and considerate sissy can be an attraction as compared to a muscular drama queen.

Next, you should dressed yourselves normally, don't overdosed your attire with unncessary lingeries or "bling bling" which is going to amplify your already "sissy" personality. We can't change how we act but we can control how we dress to dilute that "negative" image others have on us.

If you have the tendency to show lots of sissy hand gestures while speaking, just imagine you are handcuffed by police while making a statement. Hand gestures will not enhance other people understanding of what you tried to deliver, it distracts your listeners more than he was trying to listen to your verbal words.

One last thing, avoid those who are not comfortable with you so that you will not feel the immediate stress innocently.

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Guest Guest

Those insensitive muscle bags you say are homophobic or players... I wouldn't blame them for being players. Most get more attention than they can handle, which naturally inflates the ego.

I am also like that too. I know they have a lot of admirers and so to be fxxked by them is my luck. They have the masculine looks that make me weak. I know they are players but I still let them fxxk me and discard me sooner or later. I know many others do that too.

And Guest, I'm not asking you to like them, but that subconscious repulsion you feel; do you not wonder why?

Because secretly inside me, I am very afraid to be just like them. Behind closed door, I get treated like any sissy when I get fxxked. I look masculine but I am afraid that after being fxxked so many times I will start to behave like a sissy to attract masculine men. sissies get fxxked, I too get fxxked so what is the difference?

Don't be so pc to say being fxxked will not make you less of a man. The top is the man and he manipulates the bottom around for fxxking. Sissies, women, bottom...what do we have in common?? You always see tops here ( don't need to mention names hehe) brag about their sexual conquests. Even during casual conversations, the top will be the cocky one talking down to a bottom.

Yet when a bottom mention about the abusive fxxk he gets and liked, you will see tops jumping in to say respect yourself and all those pc crap. It is between adults and he choose that with his eyes wide open and willingly.

I feel less of a man and I like it. But I don't want people to think I am a sissy. Straights think all bottoms are sissies and most gays too.

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Well, discrimination against effeminate men has always been more prominent than homosexual love in day-to-day life.

Some gay men dislike feminine acts, they want to prove to the society that not all gays are not like that. They felt the reputation of the gay community is heavily threatened by those obvious, flamboyant acts from effeminate gay men. But seriously, there is nothing to prove at all. The LGBT community is a diversity of people. Educating issues that has been ignored by the society should be a cause.

I do believe that homosexuality and effeminacy are both separate issues. It should not be mistaken that being a L/G/B/T should be naturally supportive of effeminacy. Human beings are prone to discriminate for all kinds of reason... ALL KINDS. But good thing is that some of us become wiser as we grow.

For me, I really don't care whether a person is effeminate or manly macho or straight acting or what. I am attracted to brave people who are strong-willed and know what they want in life and it can be anyone who falls in any of those categories.

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Orca888, how is your current squeeze straight? Unless you mean he identifies as straight but still has sex with men. And you're only a douchebag if you let yourself be. ;-p

Haha (the guest poster, not a laugh), I do agree that effeminacy and homosexuality are separate, in that, it's not always a case of one indicating the other. I'm just saying that, having experienced discrimination, they should be sympathetic to the other's problems. Good to know you are blind to effeminacy.

Because secretly inside me, I am very afraid to be just like them. Behind closed door, I get treated like any sissy when I get fxxked. I look masculine but I am afraid that after being fxxked so many times I will start to behave like a sissy to attract masculine men. sissies get fxxked, I too get fxxked so what is the difference?

I feel less of a man and I like it. But I don't want people to think I am a sissy. Straights think all bottoms are sissies and most gays too.

Interesting... So there is an element of fear.

Even during casual conversations, the top will be the cocky one talking down to a bottom.

Can't say that's always the case. There are submissive tops and dominant bottoms, after all.

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Guest Perception and Truth

I verily disagree with your statement that men cannot act like women because men are viewed as superior. Quite the contrary my dear!! Women are allowed to act like men without as much stereotyping as men who act like women because societal norms are such that it's okay for women to be like men but not vice versa. Many women also despise and get repulsed by effeminate men, but men and women generally do not despise tomboys(except for butches). It's just societal norms. Just like it is seen as empowering for women to ditch their traditional roles but men can never ditch their traditional roles (NS, dying for women and children in times of disasters, sacrificing their lives, protecting the family, etc). I don't wish to drone on and on but I think you get what I mean.

We have come to a point(our country at least) whereby it's the men who need their rights to be protected. In law, corporal punishment, family court, national service liabilities, etc women have more rights than men. Please get your facts right if you want to dispute the truth of that, because you simply can't. Women justify the equality of men serving NS with the fact that they have to give birth and have mensus. It's as ridiculous as saying women should be raped because men cannot have multiple orgasms and that women should serve 5 years of ns because they live much longer than men. Anw I'm not writing an essay here but you get the point. Look around you, the feminists in developed countries should wake up their idea and channel their resources to empower women in the middle east, not continue to tip the scales of inequality against men in already feminist societies. I'm a guy, and I'd like to do my part for the suffering women in the middle east, but seeing the stupidity of feminists in Singapore makes me understand why our world is so fxxked up. We see how people don't really want equality; THEY WANT SUPERIORITY.

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Orca888, how is your current squeeze straight? Unless you mean he identifies as straight but still has sex with men. And you're only a douchebag if you let yourself be. ;-p

Because it's just one-way at the moment? hahah

He doesn't have sex with men and he's straight (I think he is but I have been getting very mixed signals)...

I was just kidding about the douchebag part :P

Am I falling for a bi?

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Guest Guest

Keen to know if the femme gays feel that they are discrimanted in a sauna environment(sorril to use this as an eg)?

Do the masculine guys, top & btm, get turned off if approached by them?

What irks you? their face? phsique? mannerism? voice?energy? & Why?

Do guys feel less manly by association with femme guys?

Do the masculine tops/btms feel that it's better to do it with a mascular btm/top with the face of Voldemort than to do it with a femme-looking guy with a pretty face & smooth skin?

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

I verily disagree with your statement that men cannot act like women because men are viewed as superior. Quite the contrary my dear!! Women are allowed to act like men without as much stereotyping as men who act like women because societal norms are such that it's okay for women to be like men but not vice versa. Many women also despise and get repulsed by effeminate men, but men and women generally do not despise tomboys(except for butches). It's just societal norms. Just like it is seen as empowering for women to ditch their traditional roles but men can never ditch their traditional roles (NS, dying for women and children in times of disasters, sacrificing their lives, protecting the family, etc). I don't wish to drone on and on but I think you get what I mean.

I get your drift, but these societal norms did not spring up from nowhere. Your reasoning kind of proves my point — it's more acceptable to uphold what is masculine and put down the feminine, than the reverse. If not from a superiority complex, what feeds these 'norms'?

And I'm not your 'dear'. Heh.

I'm a guy, and I'd like to do my part for the suffering women in the middle east, but seeing the stupidity of feminists in Singapore makes me understand why our world is so fxxked up. We see how people don't really want equality; THEY WANT SUPERIORITY.

I think you underestimate the oppression that women have been subjected to, by males who have always claimed superiority.

I do agree that in the aspects you listed, men are at the losing end, but the reason there are more laws protecting women, is because they have had a smaller voice in society from the beginning of civilisation. I'd certainly welcome a more balanced legislation, still.

You must tell me about the stupidity of the feminists, though. What gets you so riled up?

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Orca888, if it's a friend, weigh the friendship against your desires. Mixed signals are often a construct of the mind — we attach meaning to things that had none. Unless he's humping you with his crotch in your ass crack on a crowded dancefloor, or telling you about how girls enjoy his cock and what it looks like, it's probably not that mixed.

And with a nickname like yours, I imagine you're like a killer whale. Unassumingly deadly. Hehehehe.

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Keen to know if the femme gays feel that they are discrimanted in a sauna environment(sorril to use this as an eg)?

Yes, though I'm not obviously effeminate. Then again, maybe I'm considered unappetising to the general sauna-going crowd.

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Guest Can't take it!

There are many different kind of sissies. One of those I hated are:

he is always "scared in everything",

he finds everything "dirty",

he likes to be "pampered" thinking "he is a woman"

he likes to think "he knows everything" and make joke of others

he thought he is "pretty" and indispensible

he likes to act "femine" to gain pity love.

I hate all these pussies!

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

ZK, I think it's great that you've raised this point. It's weird how a community that is discriminated against discriminates against its own members.

Not so much weird as... intriguing. Psychosocially. And thanks. :-)

Don't be a stereotype and victimise yourself. Stand up for people who are like you instead. People are afraid or make fun of things they don't understand, or things they think they understand. If you know that not all gay men are effeminate, inform these people. You have the privilege of understanding, so you have the responsibility to help others understand. Instead of sitting behind a computer screen poking fun at effeminate men, as though there aren't enough clos-minded heterosexuals. If you are "fortunate" enough to be a gay man who is "straight acting", shouldn't you be doing more to share with others the fact that men like you exist?

It's a game of fear and blame, and one that perpetuates a vicious cycle. He hears people around him say all gays are girly, so he doesn't want to tell people that he is gay because then they will think he is the same way, and acts that way, somehow. And he doesn't want to be associated in that way. So then by not revealing himself, he perpetuates the myth, which cycles through again.

This is why we hear statements like, "Neil Patrick Harris is gay?! But he doesn't behave like one! And he's so good as that womanising Barney!" (referencing How I Met Your Mother here)

Even with the existence of a wide gamut of personalities and dispositions, male homosexuality and effeminacy are seen as one. And it just might be that the general disdain for the latter, makes people averse to the former. Perhaps.

There are many different kind of sissies. One of those I hated are:

You say "one of those" but then you list six behaviours. It should be "some of those".

I hate all these pussies!

Again, this misogynistic language: sissies, pussies, girl, sister etc. are feminine words and traits, seen as negative when used on males. Goes back again to the point:

"But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading

'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading"

Edited by Zaihan Kariyani
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Guest Truth
You must tell me about the stupidity of the feminists, though. What gets you so riled up?

What gets me so riled up is the fact that instead of helping women who are in dire situations, they are perpetuating and worsening the already unequal state in our country. I'm not that bothered to explain to you every single point that you don't seem to get. It's up to you, the situation is like that but you are free to perceive it in any way you want.

Another point I'd like to make is that whatever perspective we have, we will tend to favour it and be biased towards it. A student will always see things from his point and lament about teachers, homework, etc. A teacher can understand why students need to be scolded and kept in line and can see that these days it really is very hard to be one. A woman will see things from her perspective and same for a man. An Indian will be more likely to fight for the rights of his race and lament about how Chinese guys don't want Indian guys as life partners. Likewise for you, as someone more of a woman inside(oh come on don't have to be up in arms), you see things from women's perspectives more than men naturally.

So if you were a "straight-acting" gay dude who gets repulsed by effeminate guys(naturally), you wouldn't be starting this thread to "defend" yourself. Of course one man's meat is another's poison, but there are universal qualities that are generally unattractive to people. Like being overweight, short, having poor complexion and acne, etc. Of course there are chasers. Hell there are even people who get high playing with shit(<<Don't Feed The Troll>> pxxn)!! Again my point is that an effeminate gay is as unattractive to the general population as a butch and naturally would not be preferred by gays. It isn't right to discriminate against them or dislike or hate them just because of that, yes; but getting all pissed about the fact that it turns most people off is futile and fighting against nature dude(I said dear just to be nice and because calling you dude may be funny). There is nothing more to be proud of being effiminate that being a normal guy so your acceptance of yourself and your pride should be the same as anybody else's and not much more. Just like normal gays would not go around expecting everyone to accept them, you shouldn't expect everyone to accept you as you are either, especially when you are considered a deviant. Just be at peace with yourself and that's enough; there's no need to force everyone to accept you or complain about haters. Everyone has problems with being accepted, even celebrities and good-looking people. Look at how many haters Justin bieber has just cause he resembles a butch just a bit.

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Guest Truth
i]But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading 'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading"

I really don't find it necessary to elucidate how twisted this is, because this is simply not the case! I think you really get things wrong. Females are free to be what they want, they can take up masculine traits and they have feminine traits as well; men are not given that liberty. If being a girl is degrading, why is society embracing women with feminine traits? Do guys fine feminine girls inferior? HELL NO!! Just because guys find a feminine guy irksome doesn't mean society degrades females. You are making a totally ridiculous connection here! It is so ridiculous I don't know how to explain things for you. You should instead be blaming society for the discrimination against males in that they are not given freewill to embrace feminine traits as much as women are allowed to embrace masculine traits. It is simply the case of society thinking females can also do what males can, but males CANNOT do what females can. You've really gotten it all the opposite. Women are not judged as severely if they act like guys, not because acting like guys is superior, but because they are given the liberty to do so. It is degrading for a man to act like a woman not because men are superior. It boils down to something deeper. Men are expected to be tough, to be less emotional and what not. Hence men are thought to FEEL less than women, which is ridiculous. Society deems that you're less of a man if you have feminine traits, but women are no less of a woman if they are masculine. This is discrimination.

You see, if being feminine is being inferior, then most guys should find females and feminine traits inferior, and females with masculine traits superior; that is simply not the case. In fact, guys are more repulsed by females with masculine traits, just as girls find males with feminine traits less attractive.

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Guest Truth

Let's just assume that your logic makes sense. Then in a world whereby women are deemed as superior, do you think males with feminine traits would be more accepted? I don't think so. Men would be even more expected to fulfil their traditional roles and conform to societal norms and your being less of a man would be even more repulsive. In fact, because you are after all a man, you will be even more discriminated against and your deviation would be even more judged. Men are already judged by women if they are not manly enough; if women were superior, then butches will be more esteemed and sissies will be condemned.

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Guest Truth

Since we're not this topic, why don't you explain to me why lesbians are more accepted than gays? Guys find feminine lesbians hot and generally both guys and girls find gays disgusting. Isn't that yet another inequality. It more alright for girls to be homosexual but not so for guys. Why? Are you going to tell me that's because masculinity is deemed as superior? I really had to say this because your view is too lopsided and you are championing the wrong cause.

Just fyi, I feel that just as there is nth to be ashamed of being gay, there is nth to be proud of as well. It's like a disability, you shouldn't be ashamed of it neither should you be proud of it. And you definitely don't go around shoving your ways of life into others' faces. So, as an effeminate guy, you should not be up in arms when other people judge you and expect people to embrace who you are, but you also shouldn't feel ashamed of yourself.

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Guest Guest

Wow! What a rant. You have a point though. I think its unfair that it is ok for gals to be lesbian but not guys. Two guys kissing is disgusting but two gals kissing is hot. Gals can do so many things that guys are not allowed to do. Zai han you need to open your eyes and mind.

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Guest Truth
straight-acting and sissy. The first is heavily desired, seen as superior. The second, viewed like a plague. And that bothered me. left]

Now you're being a hypocrite Zaihan. Can I ask you, do you prefer sissies or boyish guys? Would you be ok if your life partner is a sissy? If you're not, and if you indeed are attracted to boyish guys, then you're part of the huge camp of individuals: old men who like young men, Indians/Malays who like Chinese, Chubs who like fit guys, etc.

Now do I even have to explain this? So many uncles complain that youngsters are superficial and mind their age. They themselves mind their own age!! They don't even seek other uncles, and if faced with someone twenty years older than they are, they would be utterly repulsed!! So how dare they expect younger guys to be attracted to them or not mind their age? Similarly, some, I SAID SOME, Indians and Malays go after Chinese guys and are not even okay with guys their own race. As for chubs who want fit guys or expect other guys to accept them, it's the same. Until they themselves are okay with getting involved with other chubs, they are simply hypocritical. Even if you are indeed okay with someone like yourself(your age, your body, your face), that still does not give you the right to get angry with people who are not okay with you. Because given a choice, you'd want what they want as well.

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Your main issue is with people who "inevitably" reinforce a stereotype... that myopic people came up with. So, "inevitably", you are standing on the side of people who don't have open minds; you're the one reinforcing it in the first place by acknowledging it and discriminating against those who happen to be stereotypes. Who cares what other people think? Why do you have to worry about effeminate men "reinforcing" the stereotype?

Don't be a stereotype and victimise yourself. Stand up for people who are like you instead. People are afraid or make fun of things they don't understand, or things they think they understand. If you know that not all gay men are effeminate, inform these people. You have the privilege of understanding, so you have the responsibility to help others understand. Instead of sitting behind a computer screen poking fun at effeminate men, as though there aren't enough clos-minded heterosexuals. If you are "fortunate" enough to be a gay man who is "straight acting", shouldn't you be doing more to share with others the fact that men like you exist?

Wow, you're reading way too much into my post.

-When I said "issue", I meant gripe. I don't bash on effeminate men or hate them. It is simply an annoyance and no more, as I have to continually educate my straight friends (such as the one I mentioned in my previous post) that not all gay men are effeminate. I am not acknowledging the stereotype, I'm trying to break it!

-I did not sit behind a computer screen and poke fun at effeminate men. That was completely uncalled for.

-I never said nor implied that I am a fortunate straight-acting gay man. That is complete and utter bullshit.

Have a good day.

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Orca888, if it's a friend, weigh the friendship against your desires. Mixed signals are often a construct of the mind — we attach meaning to things that had none. Unless he's humping you with his crotch in your ass crack on a crowded dancefloor, or telling you about how girls enjoy his cock and what it looks like, it's probably not that mixed. And with a nickname like yours, I imagine you're like a killer whale. Unassumingly deadly. Hehehehe.

Of course, I value our friendship more :D

He's like a younger brother to me and he treats me like his elder brother...so we are definitely very close...

As for him humping my behind, it's more the other way....hahah

Jokes aside, he's quite comfortable with our physical closeness - I do enjoy holding him and he doesn't seem to mind :)

Yes, I am the unassuming but deadly killer whale...hahah

Am I falling for a bi?

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well, here's my input. my personal preference isn't someone who's too overtly sissy. but would i hate u or choose to disassociate myself from u just because ur one? no.

granted i'm obviously not the machoiest guy out there... and my point is, u should be who u are comfortable being. if that guy enjoys being "straight-acting", then it's his choice. the last thing that anyone wants to see is another person being forced to be someone he isn't comfortable with.

btw the term "straight-acting" really needs to be renamed. the point of doing that is to "blend in" and all, so that u do appear as a normal dude. but, really, "acting"? how straight is that if u need to act it out? lmfao

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Now you're being a hypocrite Zaihan. Can I ask you, do you prefer sissies or boyish guys? Would you be ok if your life partner is a sissy? If you're not, and if you indeed are attracted to boyish guys, then you're part of the huge camp of individuals: old men who like young men, Indians/Malays who like Chinese, Chubs who like fit guys, etc.

Now do I even have to explain this? So many uncles complain that youngsters are superficial and mind their age. They themselves mind their own age!! They don't even seek other uncles, and if faced with someone twenty years older than they are, they would be utterly repulsed!! So how dare they expect younger guys to be attracted to them or not mind their age? Similarly, some, I SAID SOME, Indians and Malays go after Chinese guys and are not even okay with guys their own race. As for chubs who want fit guys or expect other guys to accept them, it's the same. Until they themselves are okay with getting involved with other chubs, they are simply hypocritical. Even if you are indeed okay with someone like yourself(your age, your body, your face), that still does not give you the right to get angry with people who are not okay with you. Because given a choice, you'd want what they want as well.

Finally someone says the complete truth.

Those people who expect others to accept sissies/chubs/older men/non-Chinese / (insert attribute clearly unappealing to the majority of or a substantial number of gays out there) are often the same who can't accept themselves being sissy or whatever apparently unacceptable condition they're in. For the sissy guy, given a choice, most of them would definitely prefer a masculine guy and/or prefer themselves to be more masculine. When they can't even accept themselves, in what position are they to expect others to accept them??

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Guest Zaihan Kariyani

Wow, finally some discussion. That was the whole point of my post.

Now, I'm gonna need some time to read through everything, but from scanning through, some of your postings belie some major angst.

I will make one point right now though — Never did I say you must like, or be forced to like, what you don't. I just wanted to hear why we react or behave in certain ways towards particular things.

I'm not judging. Pointing out flaws in each other's argument is fine, but I notice a couple of anonymous guests being far too judgmental and personal.

Chill, pickles... Sheesh.

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Actually, i prefer "sissy boys" to be my life partner.. As long as they are decent.

My definition of decent = homely. Family oriented :) And sissy boys, they are GENERALLY more inclined towards that.

Chubby sissies are also accepted. I look at whats on the INSIDE. Im not going to kid anyone and say appearance dont matter. Im not going to date a Dumbledore nor someone who is on the brink of having sex change. Boyish men would be a bonus. But hey, not everyone is rich, and if you can find someone who is willing to be loyal, faithful, caring, takes care of you and loves you, why not? Why mind the appearance and demeanor?

Edited by topLTR_93

Sianz.

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Guest Truth
Wow, finally some discussion. That was the whole point of my post. Now, I'm gonna need some time to read through everything, but from scanning through, some of your postings belie some major angst. I will make one point right now though — Never did I say you must like, or be forced to like, what you don't. I just wanted to hear why we react or behave in certain ways towards particular things. I'm not judging. Pointing out flaws in each other's argument is fine, but I notice a couple of anonymous guests being far too judgmental and personal. Chill, pickles... Sheesh.

You make it sound like this is an argument! I never intended this to be an argument, for I think I'm only explaining things to you, because you've really gotten this discrimination thing upside down. And I never thought I had to explain things that are so plain. And one more thing: you don't have to say things out to mean them. Just like how you inferred that I am angsty, and that I'm judgmental and getting personal, it is perhaps more patent that you're also having some major angst about the lack of popularity of sissies.

And the fact that I said you're a hypocrite; can you second that? If you read my explanation I'm not saying things without $!^*| and sound justification, although I don't bother to explain things down to the minutest detail. Guests or members alike who'd read that would be able to relate to my point about hypocrisy. The fact is that you have to understand that that's the case with you(Since boyish guys appeal to you more than fem guys I rmb you commented somewhere correct me if I'm wrong and indeed you prefer fem guys to boyish guys). Then move on.

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Guest Truth
Finally someone says the complete truth. Those people who expect others to accept sissies/chubs/older men/non-Chinese / (insert attribute clearly unappealing to the majority of or a substantial number of gays out there) are often the same who can't accept themselves being sissy or whatever apparently unacceptable condition they're in. For the sissy guy, given a choice, most of them would definitely prefer a masculine guy and/or prefer themselves to be more masculine. When they can't even accept themselves, in what position are they to expect others to accept them??

Finally somebody who thinks. And we are not the same person god dammit to those mindless fools who believe that all guests are the same person. I can create five member accounts and comment on my own posts if I want to. Back to the topic. Even though you can accept yourself that does not mean others must accept you. And if you accept yourself you'll probably still very much prefer the qualities that are generally attractive to others, not qualities such as old age, ah kua-ness, etc. And let's say you really prefer such qualities, then good for you, you're not a hypocrite then. But that still does not warrant ranting about how nature has deemed such qualities unattractive. In fact, if you prefer fem guys/old/fat guys, I don't think you'd have a problem with people not finding them attractive at all. You'd have no problem with that to begin with.

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Guest Lean n mean

Me thinks those fems not participating in this r simply having too good a time to share:) i know of many who are comfortable n confident of being who they are n have all types crazy over them. Bottom (pun intended)line is straight acting is popular but we can target our own niche markets n ignore the rest who dont appreciate us. We can all hv our happy endings (again, pun intended).

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Here's something to all you so called 'straight acting' commenters and readers.

Of all the problems that the ideology and practice of masculinity cause for gay men, I think that self-loathing is by far the most harmful. Gay ‘community’ can be a tough ask, where to get through the front door typically means being white, young, middle-class, professional, buffed, toned, and yes, ‘straight-acting’. That exclusion rules are rigidly enforced within the gay community makes those masculine ideals enforced in the wider community that much more harsh. After all, one of the presumed benefits from membership of an outsider group is the strength that flows from internal solidarity. No such solidarity occurs in the gay community, well at least not here in Sydney. Tensions thus, are not merely linear, point-to-point, but within individuals, within groups and between groups, amongst other variations.

Learning to hate in others what you are yourself is self-evidently, likely to adversely impinge upon your psychological well-being (2010, p.106). I know of so many gay men who absolutely loathe any gay man who they believe to be too showy, too girly, or too gay. That is, men who through their behaviours and attitudes define us in the public eye as contrary to masculine ideals. Gay men who appear feminine, weak, or emotional shame those gay men who invest so much time and energy in ‘covering’, that is, pretending to be straight (2010, p.105). Conflating masculine ideals with strict adherence to heteronormativity poses the impossible challenge for gay men, since none of us can ever achieve the mantle of ‘straight, normal’. It is the cruellest trick, and the reactive side of homophobia that gets so little scrutiny.

Source: http://ultimo167.wordpress.com/articles-on-men/straight-acting-self-loathing-gay-men/

Humans are creatures of free will, and nobody can compell you to accept or reject whatever kinds of people or things. Unless you are contended to be in your closets, it would be useful to examine yourself for who you are. And even though you can convince others that you are no different from straight men, the fact that you like men automatically makes you NOT straight, and by extension according to societal norms, NOT masculine. Accept that the fact that you can never be fully masculine and accept people who are not as masculine as you are.

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Guest Guest
Finally somebody who thinks. And we are not the same person god dammit to those mindless fools who believe that all guests are the same person. I can create five member accounts and comment on my own posts if I want to. Back to the topic. Even though you can accept yourself that does not mean others must accept you. And if you accept yourself you'll probably still very much prefer the qualities that are generally attractive to others, not qualities such as old age, ah kua-ness, etc. And let's say you really prefer such qualities, then good for you, you're not a hypocrite then. But that still does not warrant ranting about how nature has deemed such qualities unattractive. In fact, if you prefer fem guys/old/fat guys, I don't think you'd have a problem with people not finding them attractive at all. You'd have no problem with that to begin with.

*applause*

Exactly!! It's clear that the majority of gay guys out there prefer masculine, young(er) and fit guys. For fem/old/fat guys who rant about that, why be so bothered about others finding femness/oldness/fatness unattractive and undesirable if they're truly comfortable with themselves? For those fem/old/fat guys who can't even accept their own condition, they're just hypocrites, full stop.

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Guest 超龄老处女

“啊。。。啊。。。好爽!!!!狠狠地操我。。。。干到老娘老眼昏花。。。。死去活来。。。。。这块老鸡派终于开张啦!!!!别停。。。。。啊。。。。别停。。。。。要出汁啦。。。。hit 我的G spot。。。。求你。。。。“

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Guest Guest

Of course, I value our friendship more :D

He's like a younger brother to me and he treats me like his elder brother...so we are definitely very close...

As for him humping my behind, it's more the other way....hahah

Jokes aside, he's quite comfortable with our physical closeness - I do enjoy holding him and he doesn't seem to mind :)

Yes, I am the unassuming but deadly killer whale...hahah

U mentioned that your straight friend is gentle/metrosexual?

Wha' ur definition? In that case, u r alright wiith sissy gays? U would not mind being approach?

What's the diff and similarity between a metrosexual & a sissy?

holding him like bear hug? Sexual organ contact? hugging him from behind? As a gay man, I would mind a straight man(whom I like or dislike) holding me. Firstly, we are not bfs or in a relationship.

R u as big as a killer whale below :)?

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U mentioned that your straight friend is gentle/metrosexual?

Wha' ur definition? In that case, u r alright wiith sissy gays? U would not mind being approach?

What's the diff and similarity between a metrosexual & a sissy?

holding him like bear hug? Sexual organ contact? hugging him from behind? As a gay man, I would mind a straight man(whom I like or dislike) holding me. Firstly, we are not bfs or in a relationship.

R u as big as a killer whale below :)?

Well, let's just say my friend won't look out of place in a Korean drama...hahah

Hmm...i won't know about being approached by others - who would be interested in a fugly old dude like me...hahah

Jokes aside, he's definitely not a sissy - he just looks very well groomed, takes care of himself very well :D

Well, we gym together and I am training him up so there are a lot of body contact - mostly me holding him in various support positions...not a real bear hug but it was close...hahah

Nope, no sexual organ contact - but he does lean into me (trying my hardest not get hard)...

To be honest, I also don't like to be touched unless I really like that person...

I wish but no, just average...

Orca is my nick cos I swim a lot and I used to coach swimming as well :D

Am I falling for a bi?

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Here's something to all you so called 'straight acting' commenters and readers.

Of all the problems that the ideology and practice of masculinity cause for gay men, I think that self-loathing is by far the most harmful. Gay ‘community’ can be a tough ask, where to get through the front door typically means being white, young, middle-class, professional, buffed, toned, and yes, ‘straight-acting’. That exclusion rules are rigidly enforced within the gay community makes those masculine ideals enforced in the wider community that much more harsh. After all, one of the presumed benefits from membership of an outsider group is the strength that flows from internal solidarity. No such solidarity occurs in the gay community, well at least not here in Sydney. Tensions thus, are not merely linear, point-to-point, but within individuals, within groups and between groups, amongst other variations.

Learning to hate in others what you are yourself is self-evidently, likely to adversely impinge upon your psychological well-being (2010, p.106). I know of so many gay men who absolutely loathe any gay man who they believe to be too showy, too girly, or too gay. That is, men who through their behaviours and attitudes define us in the public eye as contrary to masculine ideals. Gay men who appear feminine, weak, or emotional shame those gay men who invest so much time and energy in ‘covering’, that is, pretending to be straight (2010, p.105). Conflating masculine ideals with strict adherence to heteronormativity poses the impossible challenge for gay men, since none of us can ever achieve the mantle of ‘straight, normal’. It is the cruellest trick, and the reactive side of homophobia that gets so little scrutiny.

Source: http://ultimo167.wor...athing-gay-men/

Humans are creatures of free will, and nobody can compell you to accept or reject whatever kinds of people or things. Unless you are contended to be in your closets, it would be useful to examine yourself for who you are. And even though you can convince others that you are no different from straight men, the fact that you like men automatically makes you NOT straight, and by extension according to societal norms, NOT masculine. Accept that the fact that you can never be fully masculine and accept people who are not as masculine as you are.

A previous post that I have done:

http://www.blowingwind.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=29282

A topic of Is Being Gay Unnatural

Video Link - Total is about 40 mins.

Starting 4m40s to about 8mins +

Conforming to societal norms.

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Finally someone says the complete truth.

Those people who expect others to accept sissies/chubs/older men/non-Chinese / (insert attribute clearly unappealing to the majority of or a substantial number of gays out there) are often the same who can't accept themselves being sissy or whatever apparently unacceptable condition they're in. For the sissy guy, given a choice, most of them would definitely prefer a masculine guy and/or prefer themselves to be more masculine. When they can't even accept themselves, in what position are they to expect others to accept them??

I'd prefer giving the general population the benefit of the doubt in being intelligent enough at knowing how they are perceived by the world.

As I mentioned, there are people who are naturally effeminate. Their voice is as it is, and they perhaps look more softer and have smaller frames. There's nothing wrong with these people, yet why are the subjected to disdain, bullying and in some cases, being ostracized. They are a 'type', and if it's not yours, why should they be hated? There's nothing wrong with saying "you're not my type, but we can always be friends" or something.

As for sissies or transsexuals, that is their choice of lifestyle. I tend to see them hang around like-minded people instead of looking completely lost in a sea of macho-men that are pumping themselves with steroids (I'm allowed to use extremes right?). It's no different from how macho-men tend to hang around other like-minded individuals.

It's the same for over-weight men. Some know of how they are perceived, and some work on it loosing weight while others are comfortable with it. It's their personal preference if they want to look a certain way, then I give them the benefit of the doubt that they find that attractive. You see loads of fat heterosexual couples around the world right? So if it works for them, who are we to judge?

Being a particular race is not a condition, neither is having a high pitched voice, effeminate demeanor, nerd complex or a gym junkie. The only condition we all go through is aging, and/or gaining weight, or something like a physical, genetic or mental condition such as having downs, or being blind.

Gays AND inter-racial relationships is a whole other demon to tackle. However I must say that most minority groups are more than aware of how they are perceived by the majority racial group. There are people who are fine with inter-racial relationships. I once knew of this gay jew guy who was really in to AND had a lot in common with this Caucasian guy but he decided to break things off because he wasn't a jew. Inter-racial preferences is something that is personal. So again, who are we to judge what an individual likes and dislikes in terms of a relationship?

As for people who don't want to engage in a relationship with someone of the same racial group? Well that's their preference. I find such things silly because I find that people in general either have good features or bad, regardless of race. The only thing I dislike are traditionalists. Just my personal preference.

I think that it's just a matter of being accepting to differences. It's nice to think of a imaginative world where everyone adheres to your standards of beauty, but unfortunately that will never be the case. There will be people with different features, different body types, different skin colors, different ways they carry themselves, different hair style, different preferences on fashion, different activity levels, different ambition goals etc...

This can co-relate to your level of exposure. I've always found it difficult to communicate with people that are very localized, while I have a lot more in common with people who are more exposed. However exposure is one thing, and one's ability to accept difference takes a larger precedence imo. Something which I wished that the gay community valued more because I just find it sad when I see internal-bashing.

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Well, let's just say my friend won't look out of place in a Korean drama...hahah

Hmm...i won't know about being approached by others - who would be interested in a fugly old dude like me...hahah

Jokes aside, he's definitely not a sissy - he just looks very well groomed, takes care of himself very well :D

Well, we gym together and I am training him up so there are a lot of body contact - mostly me holding him in various support positions...not a real bear hug but it was close...hahah

Nope, no sexual organ contact - but he does lean into me (trying my hardest not get hard)...

To be honest, I also don't like to be touched unless I really like that person...

I wish but no, just average...

Orca is my nick cos I swim a lot and I used to coach swimming as well :D

If he's not a sissy but just metrosexual - fair skin, good complexion, delicate features, it seems that he loves to lean into a straight-acting guy like you. When u say lean, what do you mean? falls into your arms?

Have u ever ask him what he likes about you? U said u r fugly(which i think u r being modest) but i guess he must be attracted to you in a physical way - face ? body?

I guess opposiite attracts? Do u perceive ur metrosexual(not sissy) friend as 'wifely'?

BTW, what's your stand on sissy hatre? R u, like the majority, prefer straight acting guy with rugged features(vs delicated features)?

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If he's not a sissy but just metrosexual - fair skin, good complexion, delicate features, it seems that he loves to lean into a straight-acting guy like you. When u say lean, what do you mean? falls into your arms?

Have u ever ask him what he likes about you? U said u r fugly(which i think u r being modest) but i guess he must be attracted to you in a physical way - face ? body?

I guess opposiite attracts? Do u perceive ur metrosexual(not sissy) friend as 'wifely'?

BTW, what's your stand on sissy hatre? R u, like the majority, prefer straight acting guy with rugged features(vs delicated features)?

He's just metro-sexual - has all the above points that you mentioned - but there's nothing in his mannerism that suggests he's sissy...hahah

Nah, it's probably very innocent and by accident - but as long as there's no sexual connotations, there're no hang ups right?

I am a rugby player and I also play waterpolo - physical contact with private parts are part and parcel of the game woah...

Well, when I said lean, I mean he sometimes back up into me when I am supporting him...usually it's me who moves away - don't want him to think that I am a pervert even if it's an innocent contact....

Nope, I have not asked him what he likes about me...all I know is that he doesn't hate me :P

But we get along very well and we make each other laugh all the time :)

Yah, I was kidding about the fugly part. I do get my fair share of attention from both male and female admirers and so does my guy...

Honestly, I think my guy is the best thing since sliced bread (not that the both of us take bread)...and the answer would be a resounding yes :D

I don't have a stand on the sissy issue - I always believe in personality more than looks...

But yes, I guess in my case, opposites do attract...however, I am far more attracted to his personality and mind...

Am I falling for a bi?

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