How Long Will You Stay In The Closet?

[doncoin]

On 10/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, Guest Cloth said:

My philosophy is like the old American military policy. Don't ask. Don't tell. My family and friends don't ask. I don't tell.

 

On 10/11/2016 at 7:05 PM, Guest John80 said:

As long as I could. I'm in an odd situation that outing is not an option to do. I hope that in my next life, my life would be different.

 

It is sad to see responses like this. It is defeatist and pessimistic. Your life is your own responsibility, and what you make it. It is sad that you gave up the fight to be yourself and allow others to imprison you and silence you. You have given up responsibility on yourself, and unfortunately, while you live, this is the life you have. You can either choose to fight to be free and make it amazing for yourself, and be the victim, and hope that the next life is going to be different. Truth is, the next life won't be any different if you are not going to make the change for yourself. 

 

 

[Steve5380]

47 minutes ago, doncoin said:

 

 

It is sad to see responses like this. It is defeatist and pessimistic. Your life is your own responsibility, and what you make it. It is sad that you gave up the fight to be yourself and allow others to imprison you and silence you. You have given up responsibility on yourself, and unfortunately, while you live, this is the life you have. You can either choose to fight to be free and make it amazing for yourself, and be the victim, and hope that the next life is going to be different. Truth is, the next life won't be any different if you are not going to make the change for yourself. 

 

 

 

It is sad to see responses like this.

You don't accept that every person can make his decision according to his circumstances,

instead of having to see everything like you do, which you call "the fight to be yourself".

You know nothing about the "yourself" of other people.

And then you act like a prophet, telling that his next life won't be any different...

What do you know?

Edited October 14, 2016 by Steve5380

[doncoin]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

It is sad to see responses like this.

You don't accept that every person can make his decision according to his circumstances,

instead of having to see everything like you do, which you call "the fight to be yourself".

You know nothing about the "yourself" of other people.

And then you act like a prophet, telling that his next life won't be any different...

What do you know?

 

I accept that every person can make their own decision according to his circumstance. What I don't accept is the whining, the "poor me" part. The how "I hope that in my next life, my life would be different." It is no different from someone complaining that he is broke because he spends all his money at the casino gambling. If you choose to be the victim, don't whine about it. If you don't want to be the victim, do something about it. Don't blame circumstances or environment, or people for the decisions you make in your life. Your life is yours. Not others. Take responsibility for yourself, stick to the decisions you've made, and stop whining. 

 

I am not acting as a prophet. What I do know for a fact is that change will not come from doing nothing. This life or next, or the one after next, if the person does not want to make the change, things will remain the same. Simple logic. 

 

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

I accept that every person can make their own decision according to his circumstance. What I don't accept is the whining, the "poor me" part. The how "I hope that in my next life, my life would be different." It is no different from someone complaining that he is broke because he spends all his money at the casino gambling. If you choose to be the victim, don't whine about it. If you don't want to be the victim, do something about it. Don't blame circumstances or environment, or people for the decisions you make in your life. Your life is yours. Not others. Take responsibility for yourself, stick to the decisions you've made, and stop whining. 

 

I am not acting as a prophet. What I do know for a fact is that change will not come from doing nothing. This life or next, or the one after next, if the person does not want to make the change, things will remain the same. Simple logic. 

 

 

I see. You like that people take responsibility for their lives.  

Nothing wrong with this, as long as it is not in an absolute sense. 

I am not sure that doing nothing means no change.

I came to life one good day,  and I don't remember doing anything.

I changed from being nothing to being a person.

Of course, this is in my Christian philosophy.

In the Buddhist philosophy, my life today is also result of what I did in previous lives.

But we cannot prove either philosophy.

[doncoin]

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I see. You like that people take responsibility for their lives.  

Nothing wrong with this, as long as it is not in an absolute sense. 

I am not sure that doing nothing means no change.

I came to life one good day,  and I don't remember doing anything.

I changed from being nothing to being a person.

Of course, this is in my Christian philosophy.

In the Buddhist philosophy, my life today is also result of what I did in previous lives.

But we cannot prove either philosophy.

 

When you become an independent adult, you are responsible for your own life. You are capable of making your own decisions, and live with the consequences. Nobody can make another person choose to be unhappy. The ultimate choice to be happy or unhappy lies with the individual. So the responsibility to oneself is absolute. 

 

Doing nothing with yourself means no change. You stagnate. Life is about growth. You grow up, You grow old. You grow vegetables. You grow. You get up and do something instead of sitting there doing nothing. 

 

You came to life not by your design, but by your parents. To put it bluntly, your parents had sex, hence they have you. 

 

We can debate all we want about what makes a person, a person. Is it from the moment of fertilization? Or is it from the moment, the heart starts beating within the fetus? Or is it when the child is born? It all comes down to your personal beliefs.

 

Your life today is not because of what you did in previous lives. How your life is today is what you make of it. Focus on the one you have now. Not what you had. 

 

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

When you become an independent adult, you are responsible for your own life. You are capable of making your own decisions, and live with the consequences. Nobody can make another person choose to be unhappy. The ultimate choice to be happy or unhappy lies with the individual. So the responsibility to oneself is absolute. 

 

Doing nothing with yourself means no change. You stagnate. Life is about growth. You grow up, You grow old. You grow vegetables. You grow. You get up and do something instead of sitting there doing nothing. 

 

Ah... you have such nice idealized view of human life.  You must be very young  (underage?)

 

As soon as you acquire some experience, maturity, you realize that IN REALITY  (as opposed to trying to be positive) we are very limited in our capabilities and responsibilities.

I assume you were born in SG from a middle class family.  You were not born in some ghetto in a third world country, from unknown parents, and left in the street.  There are millions of people who die of malnutrition each year, many of them children but also adults who find no way out.  They are NOT responsible for their fate, nor are they capable to change it. 

 

Gays we are not responsible for being gay nor capable to change this.  Different people deal with this in different ways depending on their circumstances, which again, are not necessarily the same as yours.  You have no right to criticize them, although you may be doing this to be positive. 

[doncoin]

@Steve5380

 

Nope, I am not being ideal. I believe we are in control of our lives on how we want it to be. While you may think I am very young, I am flattered really, i am in my 40s. So I have seen my share of life, and work to be where I want to be. I wish we can all say we are "limited in our capabilities and responsibilities" and use it an excuse to get away with life. I.e. I can easily say, per your words, I did badly for my exams not because i didn't study, but because I am limited in my capabilities and responsibilities. The test was too hard. The teacher didn't test it according to my capabilities. I didn't study for my exams because my parents didn't send me to the right school which didn't provide a conducive environment, so I cannot be 100% responsible for failing my exams. 

 

So per your reality that we are all limited in our capabilities and responsibilities, then we should just not do anything and blame others. simply because we are limited. 

 

With regards to people and children born in the 3rd world etc. you are right, they are not responsible for the fate or rather, the circumstances they are born into. However, they are responsible for their survival. With regards to children, yes, they are dependent, and there is little they can be responsible for. However, for the adults, they are responsible for themselves. They are responsible for ensuring their survival. They are responsible for making sure there is food, not just for themselves but their families as well. If these adults are to take your words, be limited in their capabilities and responsibilities, then they should just sit at home, and hope that food drop from heaven. 

 

I didn't criticise anyone if you read carefully what I have written. What I stated is to quit whining poor me over decisions made of sound mind. 

[ehh]

Staying in the closet until I'm financially independent at least

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, doncoin said:

So per your reality that we are all limited in our capabilities and responsibilities, then we should just not do anything and blame others. simply because we are limited. 

 

Hmmm... it seems that you have stopped writing reasonably and now you sound completely dumb.

 

Like if I said to you that we are limited in the weight we can lift, then you interpret that what I meant is that to lift a pencil from the floor we need a forklift.

 

All right, so you are not young, but simply LIMITED IN YOUR CAPACITY to think.  And this should not mean that you don't think.

In your 40s you should have realized that most people strive to get ahead, but are confronted by limitations.

And very important limitations come from the environment, not the person.

The maid from Philippine who cleans your house may want to own your house, but she is limited, she cannot.

Yet she works and earns some money to support her family back home.

And she has all the right to complain about her circumstances. 

 

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, ehh said:

Staying in the closet until I'm financially independent at least

 

This is quite wise.

Once you have money, you can do anything, gay or straight.  Look at Donald Trump...

[Bdman]

Am age 38 now. Never tot of when will i come out of the closet.

Would not deny either, if any close friends were to ask me directly am i gay. I would say yes. But of cos would not go round telling pple that i am.  Just let things happen natural. 

I suspose, by the time when i reach 40 plus and still single, without a histroy of having a gf, people who knew me would have guessed and know my preference by then, this man is a gay.

 

 

[doncoin]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Hmmm... it seems that you have stopped writing reasonably and now you sound completely dumb.

 

Like if I said to you that we are limited in the weight we can lift, then you interpret that what I meant is that to lift a pencil from the floor we need a forklift.

 

All right, so you are not young, but simply LIMITED IN YOUR CAPACITY to think.  And this should not mean that you don't think.

In your 40s you should have realized that most people strive to get ahead, but are confronted by limitations.

And very important limitations come from the environment, not the person.

The maid from Philippine who cleans your house may want to own your house, but she is limited, she cannot.

Yet she works and earns some money to support her family back home.

And she has all the right to complain about her circumstances. 

 

 

Why would you start insulting, i.e. "dumb", when so far I have not attacked you as a person in anyway? I have stated clearly my views that i disagree about using limits as an excuse not better our lives. 

 

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. We all work hard to be where we want to be. What I find difficult to agree is with your argument that "important limitations come from the environment, not the person." Ever heard of the saying "Be the change you want to be?" If you believe that you are powerless and can do nothing to improve your life and circumstances, then it is your choice, and I have to respect that, though I do not agree. However, if you do believe you deserve something better, but do nothing to make it better, but just complain it, then it is where I take issue. 

 

We all can have wants, and the wants have to be reality based. Not fantasy. The whining and complaining starts when the wants we want are not reality based simply because they are not achievable, and you are setting yourself up for failure. We need to take a measurement of what is real, and  achievable. Not what is unrealistic, and whine and complain about it. 

 

Personally, if I am to use the excuse that i am limited because of the confrontations I have in life, or I cannot excel at work because I am gay or some other excuse, then I do not deserve to be where I am in life. However, I didn't. I came out many years ago. I never let my sexuality be an obstacle to my personal and professional life. Nor have I ever let the fact that I am Asian or an immigrant be an excuse not to move forward. 

 

You can let limitations overcome you, or you can overcome your limitations. It is a choice. Just don't whine about it. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by doncoin

[Guest Glyph]

Yeah, we all know everything's about choices. The issue here is it being dilemmatic, which isn't to say that one is fickle-minded but that the choices laid out are equally undesirable. Think coming out in a family that isn't receptive of the LGBT.

 

And there's really nothing wrong with whining. If anything, it's catharsis.

[doncoin]

44 minutes ago, Glyph said:

Yeah, we all know everything's about choices. The issue here is it being dilemmatic, which isn't to say that one is fickle-minded but that the choices laid out are equally undesirable. Think coming out in a family that isn't receptive of the LGBT.

 

And there's really nothing wrong with whining. If anything, it's catharsis.

 

As I have told the people that work with me, you can either be a solution or be a problem. Whining is not solving the problem. "Poor me" is not going to enrich you. The road may not be easy for everyone to come out and that is a reality. However the reality is also that if you don't start by taking the first tiny step, then nothing is going to change at all. 

[Steve5380]

7 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

Why would you start insulting, i.e. "dumb", when so far I have not attacked you as a person in anyway? I have stated clearly my views that i disagree about using limits as an excuse not better our lives. 

 

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. We all work hard to be where we want to be. What I find difficult to agree is with your argument that "important limitations come from the environment, not the person." Ever heard of the saying "Be the change you want to be?" If you believe that you are powerless and can do nothing to improve your life and circumstances, then it is your choice, and I have to respect that, though I do not agree. However, if you do believe you deserve something better, but do nothing to make it better, but just complain it, then it is where I take issue. 

 

We all can have wants, and the wants have to be reality based. Not fantasy. The whining and complaining starts when the wants we want are not reality based simply because they are not achievable, and you are setting yourself up for failure. We need to take a measurement of what is real, and  achievable. Not what is unrealistic, and whine and complain about it. 

 

Personally, if I am to use the excuse that i am limited because of the confrontations I have in life, or I cannot excel at work because I am gay or some other excuse, then I do not deserve to be where I am in life. However, I didn't. I came out many years ago. I never let my sexuality be an obstacle to my personal and professional life. Nor have I ever let the fact that I am Asian or an immigrant be an excuse not to move forward. 

 

You can let limitations overcome you, or you can overcome your limitations. It is a choice. Just don't whine about it. 

 

I want to explain to you why I think that what you write is DUMB, and I thought I had done it but I will repeat myself.

After what I have written, it is DUMB for you to insist that I suggest using limits as an excuse not to better our lives.

Then, it is DUMB of you not to recognize that there are limits, internal and external, that affect us and make our circumstances unique.

 

What you write "Be the change you want to be"  seems to be taken out of a cheap book of self-improvement.  Is it there where you found it?

I have read books like that, and I see some positive in them, but one has to recognize that their "solutions" are not necessarily true.

There is a "placebo effect".  You can tell a good friend who is sick that "I know for sure that you will get better".

This can be encouraging, but it is no guarantee to heal an incurable disease. 

Should the friend put a blind faith in such an encouragement?

 

Your mistake is to see as "excuse" the realization that some limitations that can be real.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

As I have told the people that work with me, you can either be a solution or be a problem. Whining is not solving the problem. "Poor me" is not going to enrich you. The road may not be easy for everyone to come out and that is a reality. However the reality is also that if you don't start by taking the first tiny step, then nothing is going to change at all. 

 

If you have people working for you, I feel sorry for them.

Solution and problem is not an either-or.

Countless scientists have been working on a cure for HIV.  But there is not a solution, nor any guarantee for it.

So are these scientists a solution or a problem?

Or are they simply people doing their best within their limitations?

[Guest Glyph]

5 hours ago, doncoin said:

As I have told the people that work with me, you can either be a solution or be a problem. Whining is not solving the problem. "Poor me" is not going to enrich you. The road may not be easy for everyone to come out and that is a reality. However the reality is also that if you don't start by taking the first tiny step, then nothing is going to change at all. 

 

That's rather optimistic, which isn't a bad thing. But the reality is that not all problems can be solved, or at least not with one's strength alone. Take the bleaching of the great barrier reef caused by global warming for example. You could take the first step to change yourself fairly easily, but I wouldn't say the same if you were to attempt to change someone else, a family unit, a community, or an entire society. In the average case of a LGBT individual making a choice between coming out and staying closeted in a non-receptive environment, it's always an internal struggle with a win-lose situation. So before we tell anyone not to whine, or that it does nothing, perhaps we should consider that that may be their only form of relief.

 

But of course, it's a completely different story if the only concern each of us has is of our own happiness.

[doncoin]

5 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

If you have people working for you, I feel sorry for them.

Solution and problem is not an either-or.

Countless scientists have been working on a cure for HIV.  But there is not a solution, nor any guarantee for it.

So are these scientists a solution or a problem?

Or are they simply people doing their best within their limitations?

 

Well, I can except excuses and limitations to some degree, but I have zero patience for bullshit. 

 

I believe in working hard to achieve your goals and create the life you want. Staying closeted is not part of it.  I am fortunate to have a family that accepts me, thought it took a while to wrap some things around it. The people working with me know I am gay, and yes you can feel sorry for them because they are paid to come up with solutions, not create problems. 

 

Scientists working on a HIV cure are not the problem. People with risky sexual/drug behaviours are the problem. Our biology make up, with the inability to fight the HIV virus is the limitation. Compared to 20 years ago, we have come a long way. Progress is made. Change is happening. 

[bennysky]

I don't know....

[Steve5380]

11 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

Well, I can except excuses and limitations to some degree, but I have zero patience for bullshit. 

I believe in working hard to achieve your goals and create the life you want. Staying closeted is not part of it.  I am fortunate to have a family that accepts me, thought it took a while to wrap some things around it.

 

Bullshit has nothing to do in this conversation.

You are fortunate that your family is accepting of you being gay.

 

You keep thinking that your particular case is the norm, and then you base your opinions of such norm.

But other people have situations that are very different.

It is not uncommon that young people who come out are thrown out of the house.

You think these people should follow your recommendations?

I don't.

[doncoin]

1 minute ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Bullshit has nothing to do in this conversation.

You are fortunate that your family is accepting of you being gay.

 

You keep thinking that your particular case is the norm, and then you base your opinions of such norm.

But other people have situations that are very different.

It is not uncommon that young people who come out are thrown out of the house.

You think these people should follow your recommendations?

I don't.

 

 

No. I don't think my case is norm but exception. However, I did also went through the usual struggles of being gay before coming out. 

 

I support young people who made the choice to come out, and I know of kids who are homeless and disowned because of their sexuality. Being closeted or coming out is a choice that everyone has to make for themselves. I think the general rule to adhere to is when you are financially dependent on someone else for your wellbeing, you obey their rules. When you are financially independent, you can make your own rules. 

[Steve5380]

20 minutes ago, doncoin said:

 

 

No. I don't think my case is norm but exception. However, I did also went through the usual struggles of being gay before coming out. 

 

I support young people who made the choice to come out, and I know of kids who are homeless and disowned because of their sexuality. Being closeted or coming out is a choice that everyone has to make for themselves. I think the general rule to adhere to is when you are financially dependent on someone else for your wellbeing, you obey their rules. When you are financially independent, you can make your own rules. 

 

We agree.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Steve5380

[Guest Nate2980]

So i came out last to my mom aunt and it didn't go too well. I was scolded to death and told me not to see my bestfriend. They suspect that we have something going on and that suspicion is right.

[Guest Tony]

well, ever since oct of last year, i have become really comfortable with myself that i've decided to come out to my friends around me. I'm still discreet with my family though. and get this, all of them did not believe me! In my art class I had to tell them on multiple ocasions that I'm gay but they think im lying and that they still think im straight. Of course, some are more stuborn than the others in belieiving , but generally all of them did not believe me at all. maybe its the way I act? well, anyone here happen to have the same experience?

[Guest Nathan]

On 12/11/2014 at 2:33 AM, Jake.Roxas said:

If you are not 'Out' yet, we want to know the reason why. How long will you keep it?

 

I remember a friend who want to out himself but do afraid that his family would condemned him. He can't take the pressure and eventually committed suicide.

[TickTockBang]

Like most guys here, i chose to stay closeted because of my family. Yes, they are too conservative, but being in a malay muslim family, it's even harder. Been looked down at for as long as I can remember by some extended relatives, and i dont think i can handle anymore condemnations. If im fated to remain single for the rest of my life, i accept it. If u ask me how long will i go on this way? I would say as long as i live. ☺ 

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, TickTockBang said:

Like most guys here, i chose to stay closeted because of my family. Yes, they are too conservative, but being in a malay muslim family, it's even harder. Been looked down at for as long as I can remember by some extended relatives, and i dont think i can handle anymore condemnations. If im fated to remain single for the rest of my life, i accept it. If u ask me how long will i go on this way? I would say as long as i live. ☺ 

 

Maybe you could explain something I don't understand about your situation.

Being looked down at and condemned by members of your family... what forces you to stay in the closet?

At least if staying in the closet would earn you their respect... but it does not seem to be so.

Are you very young and dependent on your family for economic support?

Are you afraid of your life or serious bodily harm from them if you come out?

 

I think your family really deserves to have one of its members to be gay... openly.

In this way they may lose some of their confidence in their homophobia, something that benefits gays.

 

My BF of twenty years is the only gay member in a large Hispanic family, to which he came out long ago,

and he has earned the respect of all of them by the way he takes care of them.

 

You deserve something much better in life than to be a slave to the prejudices of your family.

 

[TickTockBang]

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Maybe you could explain something I don't understand about your situation.

Being looked down at and condemned by members of your family... what forces you to stay in the closet?

At least if staying in the closet would earn you their respect... but it does not seem to be so.

Are you very young and dependent on your family for economic support?

Are you afraid of your life or serious bodily harm from them if you come out?

 

I think your family really deserves to have one of its members to be gay... openly.

In this way they may lose some of their confidence in their homophobia, something that benefits gays.

 

My BF of twenty years is the only gay member in a large Hispanic family, to which he came out long ago,

and he has earned the respect of all of them by the way he takes care of them.

 

You deserve something much better in life than to be a slave to the prejudices of your family.

 

Being closeted will atleast spare me from any condemnations. Cuz i dont need more reasons for them to make fun of me. And this is something that i decided and chose to do few years back. Whatever it is, my family comes 1st before anything else. I wouldnt want to bring shame to them. This is something that i do by choice. And tbh im doing fine being single 

[Guest Bernie]

May I ask if they think that you are gay? Was there an instance in the past that you were asked by member of your family that you are gay?

[TickTockBang]

21 minutes ago, Guest Bernie said:

May I ask if they think that you are gay? Was there an instance in the past that you were asked by member of your family that you are gay?

Nope, never did. But they always ask when i'd get a gf Although i have the option to have a gf, i still chose to be single.

Edited March 8, 2017 by TickTockBang

[Guest Closet monster]

As long as it takes to die which is like, forever. Zzzzzz

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, TickTockBang said:

Being closeted will atleast spare me from any condemnations. Cuz i dont need more reasons for them to make fun of me. And this is something that i decided and chose to do few years back. Whatever it is, my family comes 1st before anything else. I wouldnt want to bring shame to them. This is something that i do by choice. And tbh im doing fine being single 

 

It is very noble that you make your family come 1st before anything else.

But hopefully you don't get too old before you realize that what should come 1st is YOU!

Put yourself number 1, and you will be fulfilled and happy to best take care of family number 2, and others.

Let your family come 2nd, this is good enough unless they are in desperate need. 

And if you ever have children, then they are 2nd and family is 3rd.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, TickTockBang said:

Nope, never did. But they always ask when i'd get a gf Although i have the option to have a gf, i still chose to be single.

 

How about finding a nice BF who can be a skillful transvestite and please your family as your GF?

[Guest Stevette Dicoco]

6 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

How about finding a nice BF who can be a skillful transvestite and please your family as your GF?

How about YOU volunteer?

[TickTockBang]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

How about finding a nice BF who can be a skillful transvestite and please your family as your GF?

Haha no, it's ok like i said, im doing just fine

 

2 hours ago, Guest Stevette Dicoco said:

How about YOU volunteer?

Lol, he is attached

[doncoin]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:35 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

How about finding a nice BF who can be a skillful transvestite and please your family as your GF?

 

As in La Cage aux Folles? Birdcage?  

 

 

[Guest Ass]

On 15/10/2016 at 1:53 AM, doncoin said:

 

 

It is sad to see responses like this. It is defeatist and pessimistic. Your life is your own responsibility, and what you make it. It is sad that you gave up the fight to be yourself and allow others to imprison you and silence you. You have given up responsibility on yourself, and unfortunately, while you live, this is the life you have. You can either choose to fight to be free and make it amazing for yourself, and be the victim, and hope that the next life is going to be different. Truth is, the next life won't be any different if you are not going to make the change for yourself. 

 

 

May I ask in what way was Guest Cloth whining? It was a statement, big difference. You arrogant ass... I have zero tolerance for BS. You got it? 

[doncoin]

6 hours ago, Guest Ass said:

May I ask in what way was Guest Cloth whining? It was a statement, big difference. You arrogant ass... I have zero tolerance for BS. You got it? 

 

Got it  My ass is my perky than arrogant to be honest. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by doncoin

[Guest Ass]

2 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

Got it  My ass is my perky than arrogant to be honest. 

So just your typing is arrogant? Oh, and just for the record, arrogance is ugly regardless of what you think about your ass... get that, too. 

[Guest peace]

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 0:15 AM, doncoin said:

I think the general rule to adhere to is when you are financially dependent on someone else for your wellbeing, you obey their rules. When you are financially independent, you can make your own rules. 

I totally agree to wat u say in tis part.

 

I read all ur comments above. Totally support wat u say, bro! U reali my idol .

 

Of cos Steve5380 is not totally wrong. I support to some of his point too.

 

 

[doncoin]

9 hours ago, Guest Ass said:

So just your typing is arrogant? Oh, and just for the record, arrogance is ugly regardless of what you think about your ass... get that, too. 

 

Point taken almighty one. Now feel better about yourself that your admonition is accepted. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by doncoin

[Guest Be Proud]

Coming out is an intensely personal process, but it's also not all about yourselves. Over the years, a few people have told me that my being out at work (and earlier, at school) was encouraging to them because they could see an example of someone who could succeed and be happy at work and in their personal life while being out.

 

One of the reasons the U.S. has over one decade become so gay-friendly is that an entire generation of gay men and women had the courage to have difficult conversations with friends and family. Once they saw that we were human, had the same need to love and be loved, and that we were in our most essential aspects just like everyone else, they changed their minds and accepted that there was nothing wrong about being gay.

 

This is the work that we as LGBTs in Singapore still have to do for the next generation. So, while I would say you shouldn't feel any pressure to come out (it's your choice), I'd encourage you to think about those who are younger than you are. Every mind that you change makes life better for the younger ones. We won't have true equality in Singapore until we do the difficult work of being honest and out and proud about who we are.

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, doncoin said:

 

Point taken almighty one. Now feel better about yourself that your admonition is accepted. 

 

Your post is not arrogant at all.

Nice way to prove "Guest Ass" wrong, hahaha

[upshot]

Just putting it out there.....

 

I guess we should properly make a clear distinction here.. When we discuss CLOSETED or COMING OUT, We are talking GAY/LESBIAN persuasion yes? Let's be crystal clear. Because in the real world. CLOSETED lifestyle have many variables. You can be bisexual, a str8 who love anal toy but not male penis, a transgender, cross dresser who is str8 but love women dresses, a furrie ..etc. And what about those still not entirely sure what they are or if what they feel or do is only a passing phase in their life? Lifestyle preference or simply just sexual preferences? Some closeted stuff can and should just stay locked away.  EVEN on just the subject of GAY coming out, there is a lot of reasons for staying closeted or coming out. And it is not all happy ending for all too!

 

So before we talk like we are THE AUTHORITY on the issue of COMING OUT as we already did and cheering people "IF I CAN DO IT SO CAN YOU", rally outcry about "you got to do it for our future gay brother to come out more easier in society" or use that holier-then-thou routine to belittle anyone who rather stay closeted, think long and hard about consequences your part plays when it does not go right for people who actually follow your advice. We are playing with people life.

 

I have no firm answer to why one should stay or not stay closeted. BUT what I have IS an ANSWER that is right for me that I share. Just because you made it it thru coming out does not mean another will have the same happy ending result. Can you truly guarantee it in writing? Be RESPONSIBLE for that person if it going side way?

 

I try to be neutral with commentary opinions. I may sometime fight too hard and press my case but it is ONLY STILL AN OPINION. Not a hard and fast rule and people should fact check it. Also in some cases there really is no right or wrong but just something you choose to do either way, part of the way or none of the ways if it does not fits your circumstances.

 

For those clueless as to what to do, looking for answers or consensus on Blowing Wind to plan our next move, remember, everyone lives a UNIQUE life from one another. Different family structure, values, culture, work environment, life experiences...etc. One solution works for one person(s) may still not work for another.

 

This is Singapore. We are not like Taiwan or US. We still have a long way to go. There are still bias, ignorance and in some cases people are just not comfortable with certain non traditional traits, beyond-the-norm practices or orientation. We have made strives in gay acceptance though still some ways to go and not all smooth sailing. And even more progressive, accepting bisexuality, man who love women but love to wear dresses, love anal sex with toys but not male-to-male sex, BDSM..etc  Think your b/f or g/f or wife or society is truly ready for that ?

 

The risk you take is your own.. so make the choice that is right for you. Don't follow what's popular. I know people who came out and had happy endings but I also know some that did not, including one who try to take his own life when he came out and his family rejected him. The family has no problem with gay people.. so long it's not one of their own. Coming out is no small fart. It's LIFE CHANGING. Once out in the wild, it stays out there in the wild.

 

[TickTockBang]

2 thumbs up for upshot. I agree

[Guest Comeeeee out]

All opinions are valid. Just not enough people willing to come out. Repressive environment is hateful. People still not ready to risk it.

[Guest Boyfriend]

Got a question. Is it easier to get a boyfriend or come out? And will it be easier to come out to parents if you are already attached for a steady period. 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, upshot said:

Just putting it out there.....

 

I guess we should properly make a clear distinction here.. When we discuss CLOSETED or COMING OUT, We are talking GAY/LESBIAN persuasion yes? Let's be crystal clear. Because in the real world. CLOSETED lifestyle have many variables. You can be bisexual, a str8 who love anal toy but not male penis, a transgender, cross dresser who is str8 but love women dresses, a furrie ..etc. And what about those still not entirely sure what they are or if what they feel or do is only a passing phase in their life? Lifestyle preference or simply just sexual preferences? Some closeted stuff can and should just stay locked away.  EVEN on just the subject of GAY coming out, there is a lot of reasons for staying closeted or coming out. And it is not all happy ending for all too!

 

So before we talk like we are THE AUTHORITY on the issue of COMING OUT as we already did and cheering people "IF I CAN DO IT SO CAN YOU", rally outcry about "you got to do it for our future gay brother to come out more easier in society" or use that holier-then-thou routine to belittle anyone who rather stay closeted, think long and hard about consequences your part plays when it does not go right for people who actually follow your advice. We are playing with people life.

 

I have no firm answer to why one should stay or not stay closeted. BUT what I have IS an ANSWER that is right for me that I share. Just because you made it it thru coming out does not mean another will have the same happy ending result. Can you truly guarantee it in writing? Be RESPONSIBLE for that person if it going side way?

 

I try to be neutral with commentary opinions. I may sometime fight too hard and press my case but it is ONLY STILL AN OPINION. Not a hard and fast rule and people should fact check it. Also in some cases there really is no right or wrong but just something you choose to do either way, part of the way or none of the ways if it does not fits your circumstances.

 

For those clueless as to what to do, looking for answers or consensus on Blowing Wind to plan our next move, remember, everyone lives a UNIQUE life from one another. Different family structure, values, culture, work environment, life experiences...etc. One solution works for one person(s) may still not work for another.

 

This is Singapore. We are not like Taiwan or US. We still have a long way to go. There are still bias, ignorance and in some cases people are just not comfortable with certain non traditional traits, beyond-the-norm practices or orientation. We have made strives in gay acceptance though still some ways to go and not all smooth sailing. And even more progressive, accepting bisexuality, man who love women but love to wear dresses, love anal sex with toys but not male-to-male sex, BDSM..etc  Think your b/f or g/f or wife or society is truly ready for that ?

 

The risk you take is your own.. so make the choice that is right for you. Don't follow what's popular. I know people who came out and had happy endings but I also know some that did not, including one who try to take his own life when he came out and his family rejected him. The family has no problem with gay people.. so long it's not one of their own. Coming out is no small fart. It's LIFE CHANGING. Once out in the wild, it stays out there in the wild.

 

 

That is all motherhood in a nutshell.

 

Caution should be taken with opinions in many similar subjects. To marry or not to marry, to have circumcision or not, to fall in love or not, to go to college or not.   But opinions should flow freely, especially when they originate in personal experiences.  This gives the life to a forum.

 

Sometimes there is no better or worse that can guide decisions.  It is like arriving at a fork in the road and having to decide left or right.  In this case it is somewhat easier because the two choices are personal freedom with risk,  and personal repression with security.  Both choices have merits, and each case is different and can have a rational answer.

 

From a perspective focused on the community more than the individual,  the coming out has a higher moral standing. Those who come out are helping the next generation of LGTBs.  We would not have same-sex marriage in many places in the world today without an increasing number of LGTBs who come out.

 

I don't see why it should be harder in Singapore to gain acceptance of alternate sexual orientations.  You have ignorance and traditionalism?  So it is in other parts of the world.  You may have some Muslim population, some fanatic Christians, but the US has plenty of religious groups who hold homosexuality as sinful. Mexico is a very traditional country where the Catholic church has a stronghold, yet in mayor areas of the country same-sex marriage is now legal.

 

.

 

[Guest Harry]

Still it is a matter of acceptance in which the society is not willing to accept freely.

[Guest Boyfriend]

I came out to my parents some time ago, they are cool with it.