Discussion About Single & Hdb Flat Ownership + Hdb Loan (Compiled)

[Firday]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:35 AM, cityhallguy said:

I understand that you are just saying it in a direct and blunt manners towards this topic lol, but I hope these people who just out to work will not be discouraged by such opinion. Having to "own" a HDB flat is always the priority for most Singaporean as it is the basic human needs for shelter. 

 

You will no longer needs to worry that you have no place to live or have to dependence on others (parents flats) or have to continue to work and use savings to pay rental fees till the end of your life. 

 

So at this stage, I don't think the government or the market has made it super tough for Singaporean to "own" a flat. If you don't picky on the location and greed for re-sale values, "owning" a flat is possible especially 2-room BTO. 

 

All you need is to plan how to save and achieve it. 

 

FYI, I put "own" because if you read the HDB agreement properly, is 99years lease and not freehold. So after 99years have to return to the government. 

 

On 12/17/2021 at 11:32 PM, Neh Neh said:

For those just out to work, can forget about buying a HDB. Obviously they do not have a few 100k CPF in OA. Ok for those with rich parents.

Actually the reality of his view is sibei true....while you like to encourage those startup youngster  but the fact is without $100k in cpf - there no way can own a 2room at 100k above price range.

 

Not even talk about 4rm at $400k/$600k - they need their parent to back them up.

 

 

[cityhallguy]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:50 PM, Firday said:

 

Actually the reality of his view is sibei true....while you like to encourage those startup youngster  but the fact is without $100k in cpf - there no way can own a 2room at 100k above price range.

 

Not even talk about 4rm at $400k/$600k - they need their parent to back them up.

 

 

Yes, his reality is sibei true but doesn’t mean generalize all. What I am sharing below are also true in the reality but again also doesn’t represent the general population  :). 
 

No qualifications people example:

 

My sis highest qualification is VI (Vocational Institute, unsure how many people still can remember), plus she didn’t even have PSLE cert, as she studied Mono stream in primary school for 8years. Joined workforce at the age of 17 and by the age of 38, she got about 150k in her OA. She now 46, single mum, paid fully using her OA for her BTO 2-room flat and OA still got left some money.

 

With qualification people example:

 

My highest qualification is overseas degree. I started working at age 17, study and work at the same time to pay school fees and my own expenses. Before going NS at age 21, my OA was 3-4k. Out of NS at age 24, I back to work with my diploma qualification till age 28. During that 4 years, my OA was about 8-9k. Then I went back further study for my degree 2years with my savings. Back to workforce again age 30 and work till 35, I stopped working. In 5years, I had about 120k in my OA that’s because I was working in a niche industry so got high pay and bonus. Since I’m not working and I’m 35, I am eligible to apply the single scheme BTO 2-room flat. However, ended up I still shortfall of 30k as my flat cost about 150k with the add on of 10k under single scheme. So I had to flock out additional 30k cash as my OA not enough. I always ensure I have lots of savings for emergency use and raining days, so I am able to pay that additional 30k cash. 

 

So is all about savings and planning. FYI, my sis doesn’t save and always over used of credit card and I always have to come in and pay off her debt. In other words, no need to save cash money also can buy a flat. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by cityhallguy

[keyboard]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:24 PM, Neh Neh said:

For HDB Loan, the Loan-To-Value is changed from 90% to 85%, meaning if you buy a 4-Rm flat cost $700k, in the past you need to pay 10% ($70k) now you need to pay cash 15% ($105k).

If your income is $3000 per month, your monthly credit card expense about $500, your effective income is $2500. With TDSR 55%, you only allow to use $2500 x 55% = $1375 to pay monthly home loan. Which work out you only allow to take loan about $300k.

$700k - $105k - $300k = short $295k. You can buy the flat if your CPF OA has $295k to pay off the short fall. If not enough, you can not afford the $700k flat.

The quote i got online is only 30% MSR (TDSR/MSR whichever is lower).

[keyboard]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:50 AM, Firday said:

 

Actually the reality of his view is sibei true....while you like to encourage those startup youngster  but the fact is without $100k in cpf - there no way can own a 2room at 100k above price range.

 

Not even talk about 4rm at $400k/$600k - they need their parent to back them up.

For affordable public housing, >100k for 2 room flats always leave me speechless. The long payment is basically paying interest to another institution benefit.

 

 

Have anyone have experience or know what happens to flats >50 years. My relative is applying for 2rm senior BTO but the old flat might not be sellable after 5 years? 3 bus stops away from MRT.

 

Edit: Did more research and found neighbourhood flats with >50yrs old and mostly no transaction.

Edited April 18, 2022 by keyboard

[Neh Neh]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:19 PM, keyboard said:

For affordable public housing, >100k for 2 room flats always leave me speechless. The long payment is basically paying interest to another institution benefit.

 

 

Have anyone have experience or know what happens to flats >50 years. My relative is applying for 2rm senior BTO but the old flat might not be sellable after 5 years? 3 bus stops away from MRT.

The norm is HDB flat having less than or just 40yrs lease, neither HDB or banks will grant a home loan to the buyer. So giving the perspective that "can not sell". Buyer can still buy with 100% cash ;(

[Neh Neh]

I have a new opinion why Agong tighten on HDB Loan LTV from 90% to 85%, although HDB has a series of rules that limit 1 citizen / PR household to own 1 HDB only. No one can own 2 HDB flats.

I think because of the HDB constructions got delay, and the HDB flats demand is high, therefore agong tries to deter people to apply HDB flat now to give HDB projects sometime to catch up. Those do not have enough cash in hand hard to buy flat, better stay put to rent house or stay with parents.

[keyboard]

On 12/18/2021 at 5:47 PM, Neh Neh said:

I have a new opinion why Agong tighten on HDB Loan LTV from 90% to 85%, although HDB has a series of rules that limit 1 citizen / PR household to own 1 HDB only. No one can own 2 HDB flats.

I think because of the HDB constructions got delay, and the HDB flats demand is high, therefore agong tries to deter people to apply HDB flat now to give HDB projects sometime to catch up. Those do not have enough cash in hand hard to buy flat, better stay put to rent house or stay with parents.

My opinion is that the interest rate has already started to go up inline with the US cutting of fed.

Which would mean "hopefully" (good or bad to some), that prices will start to come down or not over-heat (the term they like to use).

 

= less money to borrow, the less the max price can be unless you have tons of cash

A good example that is unfolding is in the evergrande bond default. Still waiting to see who will bail out the industry and downstreams.

[Guest guest]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:19 PM, keyboard said:

For affordable public housing, >100k for 2 room flats always leave me speechless. The long payment is basically paying interest to another institution benefit.

 

 

Have anyone have experience or know what happens to flats >50 years. My relative is applying for 2rm senior BTO but the old flat might not be sellable after 5 years? 3 bus stops away from MRT.

Not necessary true only the 2 rm BTO might not be sellable after 5 years. Some resale flats also same. Like you buy those resale flat already 35 years or even more, after staying there for 5 years or more, the flat already 40 years plus or even 50 years, the flat might not be sellable also. But there are still many people buy these flats on resale market maybe due to good location.

[keyboard]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:24 AM, Guest guest said:

Not necessary true only the 2 rm BTO might not be sellable after 5 years. Some resale flats also same. Like you buy those resale flat already 35 years or even more, after staying there for 5 years or more, the flat already 40 years plus or even 50 years, the flat might not be sellable also. But there are still many people buy these flats on resale market maybe due to good location.

True. I saw there were people on propertyguru saying they can't sell their house even after 2 years on the market and HDB will not take back the flat. I wonder what happens to the new flat if they can't sell the old one.

 

The buyer would have to be cash/cpf rich to payout <300k since no loan will be provided but still a good deal considering a rental one room would cost as much too over the same period. I almost got into the same trap few years back where i thought the prime location old flats will still appreciate and won't be taking loss when i intend to sell in later years - since that flat can't last me till death. 2 years later, that same flat value went up 100k but i'm glad i didn't buy it cos it will definitely depreciate when closer to end of lease and will end up with not enough money to get a 2rm even from HDB.

[Neh Neh]

Every household can only own 1 HDB. If you can't dispose your 1st old HDB, you can't get a second HDB flat. You can buy private condo as your 2nd house subject to the ABSD 17% (new rate).

[Guest GUEST]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:41 PM, keyboard said:

True. I saw there were people on propertyguru saying they can't sell their house even after 2 years on the market and HDB will not take back the flat. I wonder what happens to the new flat if they can't sell the old one.

 

The buyer would have to be cash/cpf rich to payout <300k since no loan will be provided but still a good deal considering a rental one room would cost as much too over the same period. I almost got into the same trap few years back where i thought the prime location old flats will still appreciate and won't be taking loss when i intend to sell in later years - since that flat can't last me till death. 2 years later, that same flat value went up 100k but i'm glad i didn't buy it cos it will definitely depreciate when closer to end of lease and will end up with not enough money to get a 2rm even from HDB.

I think they can still sell their house but at a lower price. Those people who say they cannot sell their house, high chance they are waiting for a buyer to offer the high price that they want. Not all people are carrot head and willing to pay crazy price for an old flat.

 

Usually those people who buy old flat at high price, they might not have the intention to sell it or profit from selling. These people might live until they die, so does not matter if the house get depreciate. Esp if the house is in prime location.

[Guest GUEST]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:06 PM, Neh Neh said:

Every household can only own 1 HDB. If you can't dispose your 1st old HDB, you can't get a second HDB flat. You can buy private condo as your 2nd house subject to the ABSD 17% (new rate).

I don't believe the owner cannot dispose their HDB flat. It just depends on how much the flat would sell eventually. Esp if the flat is at least a 3 rm or above. Sure there will be a buyer who want to buy the flat.

[Guest Politicians greatest Lies]

I believe going forward, there will be people going on renting trend. This belongs to group of people who cannot afford to buy HDB or people who prefer not to buy but to rent.   Govt is now considering matching two singles (of same ethnic and age and gender) to rent HDB flat.  We have been lied about Swiss Standard of Living for far too long.

[keyboard]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:06 PM, Neh Neh said:

Every household can only own 1 HDB. If you can't dispose your 1st old HDB, you can't get a second HDB flat. You can buy private condo as your 2nd house subject to the ABSD 17% (new rate).

It's a bit off. Cos HDB allows you to sign the lease for BTO (15-20% of price) at month 4 but if you were to sell your old >50yrs HDB and at a loss, you might end up not being able to pay for the new BTO since there's no loan available.

[keyboard]

Went to look at https://services2.hdb.gov.sg/web/fi10/emap.html to search for really old flats in SG. <50 yrs lease available. Pricing isn't that great especially those not near MRT.

3rm is $400+ per month

4-5rm isn't any better, $5-700 per month

 

HDB building the additional room does not make sense as old people don't like renting out the room for the extra space also. The idea of waking up for work and finding your landlord dead isn't that ideal.

[Guest GUEST]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:36 PM, keyboard said:

It's a bit off. Cos HDB allows you to sign the lease for BTO (15-20% of price) at month 4 but if you were to sell your old >50yrs HDB and at a loss, you might end up not being able to pay for the new BTO since there's no loan available.

Don't sell and stay until die, then no need to scare sell at a loss.

[keyboard]

On 12/19/2021 at 5:45 PM, Guest GUEST said:

Don't sell and stay until die, then no need to scare sell at a loss.

Old people scared spalling concrete. Eyes no good.

[adrenaline]

70% say they are good so their policy can't be wrong!!

 

Just have to suck thumb and save a few more years.

[keyboard]

what is the best value to get out of HDB?

1. married 1st timer BTO - married 2nd timer BTO - child >35 with parent 2nd timer BTO - child >55 2nd timer short lease 2rm BTO

2. child >35 2rm BTO

3. ?

[keyboard]

Interesting find that short lease BTO is actually more expensive than 99 lease.

2017 prices

15 $47,000

20 $56,000

25 $64,000

30 $70,000

35 $76,000

40 $80,000

45 $84,000

99 $140,000

Edited December 25, 2021 by keyboard

[keyboard]

So my aunt went to see her selection but didn't buy cos not enough money.

2rm type 1  6th floor 88k 25 yr lease, 99 yrs lease at 186k ($500 per floor)

option fee $500 upon selection

lawyer fee and stamp duty - in 3-4 months

down payment exempted for short lease

rest of payment at key collection

resale levy 14k

govt 8k for toilet and built in cabinets

xk for electrical, grills etc

 

upon selling old 3rm flat (>50yo), need to top up cpf + accrued interest, excess then can use for new housing.

Edited December 25, 2021 by keyboard

[Guest guest]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:59 PM, keyboard said:

So my aunt went to see her selection but didn't buy cos not enough money.

2rm type 1  6th floor 88k 25 yr lease, 99 yrs lease at 186k ($500 per floor)

option fee $500 upon selection

lawyer fee and stamp duty - in 3-4 months

down payment exempted for short lease

rest of payment at key collection

resale levy 14k

govt 8k for toilet and built in cabinets

xk for electrical, grills etc

 

upon selling old 3rm flat (>50yo), need to top up cpf + accrued interest, excess then can use for new housing.

99 year lease for a 2 rm now cost 186k? Quite high. Pricing has been increasing a lot over the years.

[Neh Neh]

For young couple (first timer) buying 2rm (1 living room + 1 bedroom) flat in my opinion is suicide. Later on they will find it hard to sell and upgrade to bigger room flat.

As mentioned before, no one household can own 2 HDB flats, one must dispose the 1st flat to get the next flat. If you can't sell, it's your problem (not HDB problem), you can't buy your next flat. Likely you will have to sell your 2rm flat at heavy lost (super low lelong price).

It is totally different for old people, as they likely will stay till pass away.

[keyboard]

expensive or not, i can't believe what they are selling at these places.

2rm built in,

2017 - fernvale - 290k

2016 - yishun - 318k

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/25/2021 at 4:48 PM, Guest guest said:

99 year lease for a 2 rm now cost 186k? Quite high. Pricing has been increasing a lot over the years.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 6:27 PM, keyboard said:

expensive or not, i can't believe what they are selling at these places.

2rm built in,

2017 - fernvale - 290k

2016 - yishun - 318k

 

At such a high price,  it does not make sense to buy a 2 room. 3 room resale at yishun area can get about the same price, can still rent out extra room for some passive income.

 

At 35, a resale with at least 60 years should be ok, dont need a 99 year lease unless you plan to sell later.

[Guest guest]

On 12/25/2021 at 5:09 PM, Neh Neh said:

For young couple (first timer) buying 2rm (1 living room + 1 bedroom) flat in my opinion is suicide. Later on they will find it hard to sell and upgrade to bigger room flat.

As mentioned before, no one household can own 2 HDB flats, one must dispose the 1st flat to get the next flat. If you can't sell, it's your problem (not HDB problem), you can't buy your next flat. Likely you will have to sell your 2rm flat at heavy lost (super low lelong price).

It is totally different for old people, as they likely will stay till pass away.

For those singles who buy 2 room flat might also face difficulty selling the flat, esp if the location is no good. For good location, should not be difficult to sell. I see posting that a 2room flat in clementi can ask for $300k plus.

[keyboard]

Anyone got go apply the latest BTO. I go apply Kallang/Whampoa with PLH. Pricing for 4-room, 89sqm $488-675k. 4k each floor it seems, 33/47 floors. Anyone wants a kidney or two? Sell testicle also can.

 

The Yishun and Tengah ones uses prefabricated. 100-150 can get for 2rm type 1. Really very far though.

[Guest guest]

If apply as a single, not eligible to apply BTO in Kallang/Whampoa.

 

The huge price difference is on the location. How to compared Yishun/Tengah so far from town with city fridge or even located inside city location BTO? Sure have to pay a premium price for it. There is no such thing want good/popular location and the price is low.

[appboy]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:10 PM, keyboard said:

Anyone got go apply the latest BTO. I go apply Kallang/Whampoa with PLH. Pricing for 4-room, 89sqm $488-675k. 4k each floor it seems, 33/47 floors. Anyone wants a kidney or two? Sell testicle also can.

 

The Yishun and Tengah ones uses prefabricated. 100-150 can get for 2rm type 1. Really very far though.

Where do you check to know the building is built with prefrabricated?

[keyboard]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:49 AM, appboy said:

Where do you check to know the building is built with prefrabricated?

Hidden under (i'm not sure if the height plays a part cos the Kallang/Dakota ones does not say it).

https://homes.hdb.gov.sg/home/bto/details/2022-02_BTO_WVNfTjRDMjNfMTY0Mjk4ODk0NjIxMA

Scroll to Prices/Flat Details - select any room type

Scroll to Finishes and Fittings.

To boost construction productivity, Grove Spring @ Yishun will be built using the Prefabricated Prefinished Volumetric Construction (PPVC) method. 

 

 

Does anyone know if the option to say want the floor tiles but don't want skirting can?

[Guest troubling]

Recently been looking out for accommodation for myself to stay but I am struggling between resale hdb and condo

The recently MOP resale hdb for 4 rooms can be at least 800k even in AMK, Hougang area, which u can get a 1 room new condo for the same price at better location. My income ceiling has exceeded the criteria for 2 bto for single. I really wonder are Singaporeans really so rich where HDB can reach 1 million and condo is always sold out?

 

To those who have already own a nest, what criteria or decisions u have made ?

[Guest Mary]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:57 AM, Guest troubling said:

Recently been looking out for accommodation for myself to stay but I am struggling between resale hdb and condo

The recently MOP resale hdb for 4 rooms can be at least 800k even in AMK, Hougang area, which u can get a 1 room new condo for the same price at better location. My income ceiling has exceeded the criteria for 2 bto for single. I really wonder are Singaporeans really so rich where HDB can reach 1 million and condo is always sold out?

 

To those who have already own a nest, what criteria or decisions u have made ?

Why do you need to check w others' about their choice and decision 

Heard of this saying - One man's meat another man's poison 

Go analyse and assess what is your needs / ability .  That is 

[Guest guest]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:57 AM, Guest troubling said:

Recently been looking out for accommodation for myself to stay but I am struggling between resale hdb and condo

The recently MOP resale hdb for 4 rooms can be at least 800k even in AMK, Hougang area, which u can get a 1 room new condo for the same price at better location. My income ceiling has exceeded the criteria for 2 bto for single. I really wonder are Singaporeans really so rich where HDB can reach 1 million and condo is always sold out?

 

To those who have already own a nest, what criteria or decisions u have made ?

Just go buy whatever you can afford and like it. Whether it is a condo or resale HDB.

[Guest Guest]

It seems that the 2 room BTO designed for singles are getting expensive by each launch.

[lonelyglobe]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:57 AM, Guest troubling said:

Recently been looking out for accommodation for myself to stay but I am struggling between resale hdb and condo

The recently MOP resale hdb for 4 rooms can be at least 800k even in AMK, Hougang area, which u can get a 1 room new condo for the same price at better location. My income ceiling has exceeded the criteria for 2 bto for single. I really wonder are Singaporeans really so rich where HDB can reach 1 million and condo is always sold out?

 

To those who have already own a nest, what criteria or decisions u have made ?

Somehow sporean are rich, thats for sure. A  lot of condo owner may not be local and even if local,  they are buying for investment purpose,  renting out condo and staying at HDB, then when price of condo goes up, sell it,  maybe thats how to get rich?

 

There is no need to compare with others as every single have different need,  expectation and budget to start with. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by lonelyglobe

[fetish69]

I just share this always calculate so that you wont be tied up with loan so much. Get what you can afford with as if u single 3 bedroom is just enough as one room you rent it it out as part of the rental goes to the loan more a less help you with your expenditure. No point to get prime district as here in Singapore is very accesible. You can pick those not mature estate but not far end of Singapore. That what i do i rent out one room and i stay at my sis place. Again be nice to your family also benefit you.

[lonelyglobe]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:10 PM, fetish69 said:

That what i do i rent out one room and i stay at my sis place. Again be nice to your family also benefit you.

If u have a place to stay and your flat more than 5 years of occupancy,  should consider rent out the whole unit.

[Guest What?]

Calculate how many more years you are gong to live, than how much money you have in your bank and then when you plan to stop working.   Add up all the 3 critierias and you will know which type of house and at what price best suited you. What are you waiting for?

[Guest Guest]

For those wanting to buy on the cheap, wait for the next cooling measures by the relevant department.

 

[Guest guest]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:24 AM, lonelyglobe said:

Somehow sporean are rich, thats for sure. A  lot of condo owner may not be local and even if local,  they are buying for investment purpose,  renting out condo and staying at HDB, then when price of condo goes up, sell it,  maybe thats how to get rich?

 

There is no need to compare with others as every single have different need,  expectation and budget to start with. 

True, if you can afford to buy a HDB and own a condo also, either way is a good investment. Can earn income rental, or sell off one of the house to generate more money. I have a couple friend, bought new BTO flat and stay in HDB for few years, then later bought a condo and rent it out, never stay in that condo. After many years sell the condo when the price goes up, and then buy a landed house and now stay in that landed house and the HDB they now rented out to generate extra income. I think when the price is right, my friend would sell off the landed house and go back to stay in HDB and pocket huge money profited from the landed sale.

[Guest GUEST]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:10 PM, fetish69 said:

I just share this always calculate so that you wont be tied up with loan so much. Get what you can afford with as if u single 3 bedroom is just enough as one room you rent it it out as part of the rental goes to the loan more a less help you with your expenditure. No point to get prime district as here in Singapore is very accesible. You can pick those not mature estate but not far end of Singapore. That what i do i rent out one room and i stay at my sis place. Again be nice to your family also benefit you.

Do you need to pay any rent when you stay in your sis place?

[Guest gest]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:22 PM, Guest What? said:

Calculate how many more years you are gong to live, than how much money you have in your bank and then when you plan to stop working.   Add up all the 3 critierias and you will know which type of house and at what price best suited you. What are you waiting for?

Like that must look for a financial planner to help me on this? I don't know how to calculate?

 

Anyway, no matter when you plan to stop working and how old you buy your house. The duration of your house loan can only loan until age 65 year old, right?

[fetish69]

On 4/1/2022 at 10:30 PM, Guest GUEST said:

Do you need to pay any rent when you stay in your sis place?

No i dont need as automatically i shop for food weekly  as part of my gesture .As we usually have family gatherig every sat before thre covid like a pot luck be it at the beach or my sis place. Well food dont cause much as her helper clean my room and wash my laundry.

[Guest guest]

On 4/2/2022 at 1:47 PM, fetish69 said:

No i dont need as automatically i shop for food weekly  as part of my gesture .As we usually have family gatherig every sat before thre covid like a pot luck be it at the beach or my sis place. Well food dont cause much as her helper clean my room and wash my laundry.

You have a good sister who let you stay in her house, while you rented out your whole unit and did not ask you to pay rent. When i told my sister that i have plan to rent out my whole unit and go to her place to stay, she said no problem if you pay rent since you have rental income from renting out your house.

[Guest Guest]

Anyone plan to apply for the upcoming Jurong West or Yishun BTO 2 Flexi?

[Guest guest]

Which estates are inhabited with younger crowd?

[Guest Hua]

Sell your HDB and rent if you are poor, HDB is not a bank.

[Guest Guest]

All over the tread, I can see heavy emphasis on:

1. The BTO or resale flats must be able to generate rental to pay the instalment.

2. The BTO or resale flats must generate big profit upon disposal for retirement.

 

There is hardly any mention of pride and joy of being the owner of real estate and the freedom of staying independently of your parents. 

[Guest True to point]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:16 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

There is hardly any mention of pride and joy of being the owner of real estate and the freedom of staying independently of your parents. 

Some people have strong family bond to want to remain under one roof with them.  I personally prefer freedom and independent due to personality crash with family members.  Time flies, I prefer to seize each day of my life to be able to do what I want with no interference from family members.  Being alone can achieve the space u needed for myself physically and emotionally. 

[Guest GUEST]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:56 AM, Guest Guest said:

Anyone plan to apply for the upcoming Jurong West or Yishun BTO 2 Flexi?

When the BTO will release for application? Which one nearer to MRT?