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This "No Fats, No Fems" Shirt Reveals a Sad Truth About the Gay Community


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This "No Fats, No Fems" Shirt

Reveals a Sad Truth About the Gay Community

 

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Is there something you need to get off your chest? Like this tank top, perhaps? 

 

Online retailer Marek + Richard, which makes a "wide range of rad gear" including jockstraps, tanks and snapback hats marketed to gay men, debuted a new tank top recently that rubbed a few online users the wrong way. 

 

The tank in question is a simple black tank that says "No Fats No Fems." Marek + Richard did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

 

"No Fats No Fems" is a now-ubiquitous phrase on gay hookup apps like Grindr that means a person is not looking to hook up with men of size or feminine men. There's even a forthcoming documentary addressing the short phrase and what it means for gay men in terms of culture and identity. 

 

 

There is no doubt the shirt is discriminatory — its intention is to separate those you want to sleep with (thin, masculine) with those you don't (fat, feminine). And while having preferences against fat or feminine men may seem innocuous enough, putting it on a shirt or even on an app profile speaks to a larger truth about the gay community: We're sexist, racist and discriminatory AF. 

 

Here's proof: One 2012 study in the journal Body Image showed that, when it comes to short-term relationships, gay men prize lean, muscular builds the most. And that's a problem. In 2005, researchers found that being gay alone is a risk factor for men to develop eating disorders due to pressures to be thin. 

 

The media only amplify these messages. A 2011 study found that the models in gay-centric magazines were both thinner and more muscular than the men in magazines like GQ. Images like these reinforce the importance of a thin, muscular physique. And they work: Several studies prove that gay men on average have lower body mass indexes than straight men. 

 

 

The other problem is that, for many gay men, muscularity equals masculinity — which is often prized in the community. The study "Reported Effects of Masculine Ideals on Gay Men" showed that gay men often feel "psychological distress" if they cannot be masculine enough for the gay community. As Michael Kimmel wrote in Guyland, "Men perform their masculinity for other men, who are the ultimate judges of it." 

 

On the other end of the spectrum, fats and fems are linked because gay men of size are thought to have feminized bodies — due to their larger hips, breasts and butts, Jason Whitesel wrote in his book Fat Gay Men.

 

"In the case of big men, fat amounts to degradable femininity," Whitesel wrote.

And, while the tank and the phrase "No fats no fems" does not sound like it would have racist implications, it actually does. A study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that gay men associate Asian men with being feminine bottoms, while black men are aggressive, masculine tops. 

 

So it's not just a simple black tank with a phrase. Clearly, its implications are far-reaching and play into ill-conceived notions about gender, sexuality and race. There are a lot of steps we need to make toward correcting these attitudes, and an easy first move is to reject the message on this shirt.

 

April 28, 2:22 p.m.: After this story was published, Marek + Richard addressed the tank top and online response to it with a tweet. The tweet claimed the shirt was satirical

 

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However, Twitter users did not buy the response. 

 

The tweets and source: http://mic.com/articles/141960/this-no-fats-no-fems-shirt-reveals-a-sad-truth-about-the-gay-community#.BX9ilykyG

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

善待对人。麻烦用英文来表达信息。不是每个人都会看的懂中文 “People need to learn the art of making an argument. Often there is no

right or wrong. It's just your opinion vs someone else's opinion. How you deliver that opinion could make the difference between opening a mind,

changing an opinion or shutting the door. Sometimes folk just don't know when they've "argued" enough. Learn when to shut up."

― J'son M. Lee 

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Pc vs hypocrisy

 

Preference vs discrimination

 

Majority vs minority

 

Which side of the fence do u wanna be?

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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I thot there are plenty of chubs chasers out there, no? 

Only no fems chaser as far as I know cuz after all if gay likes fems won't they rather be straight? Pls don't flame me for saying that. 

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Guest Glyph
19 minutes ago, EasleyLim said:

Such a terrible business decision, lmao. Like really, who in their dept approved of this design?

 

What to do.. people and their mortal mistakes. Whoever he/she is prolly got sacked by now.

 

tumblr_mcoma8r8jv1qbxlono1_500.gif

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Get real ! If Madonna is fat and dancing on stage today , do you think millions will pay to watch her concerts ?! Didn't she mentioned you all are just mother fuckers all the time !!

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Actions speak louder than words. If people (fem and fat, because other guys usually don't see preference as discrimination) want to fight against the "discrimination" of fem and fat guys, they should set an example themselves. The fat guy should lovingly accept and date another fat guy; the fem guy shouldn't shun another fem guy as a date, since not preferring to date these types is "discriminatory". Even if other types of guys don't follow suit, at least they have greater - pardon me - "market value" and inculcate acceptance within the community. 

 

With that said, obviously, like everyone else, I think fat-shaming and skinny-shaming (have you not seen skinny guys being laughed at for being stickmen?) are terrible, but that doesn't mean everyone should want to date fat, skinny or fem guys. I know this thread is about an act of outright shaming rather than mere preference, but because the difference between discrimination and preference is often imperceptible to immature minds, I deem this comment relevant. Actually, whether stating one's preference blatantly is wrong remains subjective and debatable. I think it's definitely not wrong to state it in one's profile on online dating apps - duh - but it is not politically correct to broadcast it if, and only if, it is regarding groups of people often deemed less attractive. I say it's not politically correct, not that it's morally wrong. Also, if one were to wear a shirt saying: no muscular/ no hotties/ no studs/ no handsome guys/ no cute guys/ no white guys, I don't think it will be much of an issue. It appears that only the self-admittedly less attractive group becomes extra-sensitive, bitter or even vindictive, understandably of course. 

 

There is a fine line between discrimination and preference, and because people are people, some may go over that line. Also, many more who are thus "discriminated against" will go too far to redress what they perceive to be injustice, oftentimes trying to impose their ideals of beauty and attractiveness upon others and deny the freedom of others to love as they desire (not liking a certain type/race = discrimination = wrong / immoral > not giving me a chance to date you is hence wrong = you are wrong and you must admit your prejudices and change === demonising the inclinations of others and denying them their freedom to love and choose their friends within the limits of decency, reason and human solidarity*). *Let's not argue what those limits are since they are, according to my standards, flouted anyway in this forum, gay apps and everywhere in general, by both "perpetrators" and self-professed victims of injustice. 

 

I wanted to write a satirical comment but because many netizens are incapable of grasping the idea of satire, I chose to be more straightforward and yes, less funny. Please pardon my tone; it is certainly not directed to the more decent and reasonable amongst you guys.

Edited by dreamerboy
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The existence of this shirt does not necessarily mean that there is a sad truth about the gay community - certain not the aforementioned sad "truth". The truth is that the community is largely superficial and privileges physical appearance. There you go, the truth without demonising any group of people and vindicating another, for the fem and gay guys also privilege physical appearance. Those who don't will not be complaining unless they are lamenting the fact that guys of the same type do not find them dateable. Oftentimes activists fiercely advocate a "truth" which vindicates a group of people and demonises another, without an understanding of human nature. 

 

The TRUTH of discimination and inequality of any kind is that many people are individualistic and self-centred, and so whichever group is at a position to exercise any sort of privilege or power exercises it to the fullest, often without regard for others. Demonisation or blaming of a racial majority, men, masculinity, or good-lookers is the result of projection, not insight, "deconstruction" (literary term) or understanding. The first step towards greater peace and equality is realising and admitting that we are fundamentally the same and prone to the same weaknesses, vices and errors, not trying to prove how different people are or how bad others are. 

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16 minutes ago, dreamerboy said:

The existence of this shirt does not necessarily mean that there is a sad truth about the gay community - certain not the aforementioned sad "truth". The truth is that the community is largely superficial and privileges physical appearance. There you go, the truth without demonising any group of people and vindicating another, for the fem and gay guys also privilege physical appearance. Those who don't will not be complaining unless they are lamenting the fact that guys of the same type do not find them dateable. Oftentimes activists fiercely advocate a "truth" which vindicates a group of people and demonises another, without an understanding of human nature. 

 

The TRUTH of discimination and inequality of any kind is that many people are individualistic and self-centred, and so whichever group is at a position to exercise any sort of privilege or power exercises it to the fullest, often without regard for others. Demonisation or blaming of a racial majority, men, masculinity, or good-lookers is the result of projection, not insight, "deconstruction" (literary term) or understanding. The first step towards greater peace and equality is realising and admitting that we are fundamentally the same and prone to the same weaknesses, vices and errors, not trying to prove how different people are or how bad others are. 

But this and more is certainly far from being good !

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To put your preference in profile and apps is needed so as to phase off time wasting. For example if a person dont like fat people and if he did not state it in his profile and meet up with the fat person. Guess what will happen? The person meet up with the fat person but stop immediately when he saw the fat person and runs away thus making the poor fat person waiting forever. It will do much more harm to the fat person in this case. Its best to get hurt earlier immediately than to get hurt later after wasting lots of time.

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I think the reason why the satirical aspect is failing so miserably is because the community understands how true it is and how reflective it is of reality. 

It is also the hard truth but I won't wear things like "94% of pancreatic cancer patients will die within five years of diagnosis" What an incredible way to start a conversation. I think we can still maintain maybe not a ton of empathy but at least an ounce of sensitivity in us.

 

When we say things like " No smoking", "No littering" we would reflect on ourselves: what is wrong with smoking? Why can't I litter? We begin to reason out the consequences or bad effects we are doing to ourselves and the environment around us. When we dish out "No Fats, No Fem", the targeted audience is going to think "what is wrong with me?"

 

At the end of the day, you just want to tell people your preference. When a girl expresses interest in me, I don't tell them "No females", I let them know "I prefer guys". As simple as it is, I prefer "x", replace x with any characteristic that you favour.

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2 hours ago, Jalen88 said:

I think the reason why the satirical aspect is failing so miserably is because the community understands how true it is and how reflective it is of reality. 

It is also the hard truth but I won't wear things like "94% of pancreatic cancer patients will die within five years of diagnosis" What an incredible way to start a conversation. I think we can still maintain maybe not a ton of empathy but at least an ounce of sensitivity in us.

 

When we say things like " No smoking", "No littering" we would reflect on ourselves: what is wrong with smoking? Why can't I litter? We begin to reason out the consequences or bad effects we are doing to ourselves and the environment around us. When we dish out "No Fats, No Fem", the targeted audience is going to think "what is wrong with me?"

 

At the end of the day, you just want to tell people your preference. When a girl expresses interest in me, I don't tell them "No females", I let them know "I prefer guys". As simple as it is, I prefer "x", replace x with any characteristic that you favour.

Truth hurts ! But the truth is good ! I always tell my management staff that they are not up to my expectations and the younger kids that they will mostly die in pain someday and the rich that they are not rich in all ways !

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The truth hurts....

 

I used to be old and ugly..... hitting 80 kg at one time.   I lost my self esteem and had to avoid going to the gym altogether.

 

After my recent bout of lung infection, my weight plummeted badly.  I have been eating correctly and now, the weight is checked at 62 kg.  My pant's size went from 36 to a much desired 30.  

 

Not wanting to return to the heavier look again, i watch my diet carefully now.

 

I was cruised at the tp gym, in the library and overseas.  The feeling is just fantastic... yes, i am this shallow... proper grooming on a leaner body is easier than hiding the excess(es).

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NOT MONEY NO HONEY!

YOU DIE YOUR OWN BIZ!

FEM AND FAT BETTER GET LOST!

 

Sad? Welcome to the real world f**kers! Hate the bloody hypocritical PCness and two-face crap. 

 

For example, many of those Gay Asians in angmo countries who complained about "sexual racism" will not blink an eye at backstabbing other Asians to get white-meat. 

 

Same with many of the fatties or fem ah gua will not blink an eye to buy some hot hunk (hot bod and hot face) if they happen to be some filthy rich aunties. I doubt these "successful" types will be complaining LOL. 

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15 hours ago, Guest said:

NOT MONEY NO HONEY!

YOU DIE YOUR OWN BIZ!

FEM AND FAT BETTER GET LOST!

 

Sad? Welcome to the real world f**kers! Hate the bloody hypocritical PCness and two-face crap. 

 

For example, many of those Gay Asians in angmo countries who complained about "sexual racism" will not blink an eye at backstabbing other Asians to get white-meat. 

 

Same with many of the fatties or fem ah gua will not blink an eye to buy some hot hunk (hot bod and hot face) if they happen to be some filthy rich aunties. I doubt these "successful" types will be complaining LOL. 

 

True.  If you are fat and fem and ugly, then you better must have $$$.    What is left for a poor fat and fem guy ?  Nothing but rejection.

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Orientation n race r not by choice but being fat n feminine r.

 

Straight's inability to accept gay communities of their life style, is a discrimination as both communities can leave each other alone. There's no need to cross paths.

 

However if a hunk voices his requirement such as no fat n fem, this is a preference. Dont tell me he has no choice to go for what he likes.

 

Lbnl, if u dont like to be fat n fem, lose it, change it. Remember, u always have a choice.

Edited by fab

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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It can be a celebration of individual preferences of sorts, and i already feel left out of this party. I'll add another one for the kicks: "No skinny". "Not fats, no fems, no skinnies", very incisive and clear. Confirmed no misunderstanding and the gay community will be a happier one with less disappointment and broken hearts. 

 

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To fab above, being feminine is not a choice. Most gays have noticeable feminine traits, hence why people in general think of gay men as effeminate men. I guess I could say that a FEM is a gay guy who is over-the-top effeminate or very obviously effeminate. They embrace it and don't hide nor downplay it.

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12 minutes ago, Guest said:

To fab above, being feminine is not a choice. Most gays have noticeable feminine traits, hence why people in general think of gay men as effeminate men. I guess I could say that a FEM is a gay guy who is over-the-top effeminate or very obviously effeminate. They embrace it and don't hide nor downplay it.

 

You said it yourself: over-the-top. There's really nothing natural about that. It's acted out on purpose.

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15 minutes ago, Guest said:

To fab above, being feminine is not a choice. Most gays have noticeable feminine traits, hence why people in general think of gay men as effeminate men. I guess I could say that a FEM is a gay guy who is over-the-top effeminate or very obviously effeminate. They embrace it and don't hide nor downplay it.

 

You said it yourself: over-the-top. There's really nothing natural about that. It's acted out on purpose.

 

over the top
adverb
  1. 1
    informal
    to an excessive or exaggerated degree.
    "some performances go over the top"
  2. 2
    historical
    over the parapet of a trench and into battle.
    "I'll be in the trench with you chaps when you go over the top"
adjective
  1. 1
    informal
    excessive or exaggerated.
    "failed, over-the-top attempts at humour"
    synonyms: excessiveimmoderateinordinateextreme, over the limit, exaggerated, extravagantoverblownoverripe, too much, unreasonableneedlessdisproportionateundueunwarranted, uncalled for, unnecessary, going too far; 
    informala bit much, OTT
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I don't thnk anybody has issues making friends with the "fat" or "fem", just like we have no issues being best friends with women, the elderly or young children.

 

The heros and celebrities we worship and adore also come in all shapes and sizes.

 

So I think it is safe to say: these people are not really social outcasts.


But when it comes to the sex, I suffered enough rejects to know its a natural experience everyone goes through, including the straight and beautiful.

 

I also learned different appearances MAY indicate a different belief system, interest and lifestyle that can become detrimental to sustaining a longlasting meaningful and fulfilling relationship.

 

When you love someone that much, you cannot bear to let that person to go through hell, in changing into someone that will fit in your world.Or, more often than not, that person may change into someone you were making alot of effort to avoid ,like when your husband or wife transforms into that sweaty and obese kid everyone jokes about when you were in primary school. Karma's a real bitch isn't it....

 

Its not fair for people to deprive you of love and attention, but neither is forcing others to love you and give you attention

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