My Bf - The Accountant

[Guest Assistant]

The Accountant was my Supervisor for 3 years and during which I felt great under his mentorship.  A year ago, my local boss gave him a poor assessment report for refusing to do “creative accounting” and lamely told him that his presence was redundant in order to “cut cost”.

 

Shortly after his dismissal, the boss robs in a relative to replace him. I have difficulty working with my new supervisor ever since.   Her knowledge was limited and she tends to avoid peak period with her regular MCs.     

 

After my bf (The Accountant) left the company, he has difficulty securing similar job befitting him.   Each interview was as challenging as the previous one with request for testimonials and reference check which my bf was not willing to reveal more than what he was comfortable with.  As a result, my bf sold his car and took on a role none related to his previous job, to avoid further disappointment.

 

The fat bitch’s attitude towards me gets uglier whenever she was stressed by her work.  I’ve never felt like an island in the company and took leave to quietly attend a job interview on Friday afternoon.  In a rush, I sprained my ankle while chasing after a bus. 

 

This evening, I met my bf who worked shift at the busy port. When he saw me limping with a thick bandage on my feet, he was extremely concerned.  We found a quiet spot at the harbour front washed with after-rain breeze.  I told him everything.

 

My bf looks darker now, with wrinkles growing quite a bit, not of age, but of labour under heat.   He seems contented trading “human trust” for an underpaid job.   I held him closer and soaked in his security as though it has been a long time we last met.   His jean & boots were reeked with shipyard petroleum and it ache to see him underemployed and me still sobful under the voices of distance stars…..

[fetish69]

Well think positive always pray to what u believe at and I hope u and ur bf stay strong thick and think never get frustrated with the situation sit be there to one another and support each other moral with full of love.I pray for u guys well being and have a blessful ever lasting love.

[CKW]

1 hour ago, Guest Assistant said:

The Accountant was my Supervisor for 3 years and during which I felt great under his mentorship.  A year ago, my local boss gave him a poor assessment report for refusing to do “creative accounting” and lamely told him that his presence was redundant in order to “cut cost”.

 

Shortly after his dismissal, the boss robs in a relative to replace him. I have difficulty working with my new supervisor ever since.   Her knowledge was limited and she tends to avoid peak period with her regular MCs.     

 

F__k the local boss for claiming that he needed to "cut cost" and then still brought in his fat bitch incompetent relative!

 

Very sorry to hear about it. Your boyfriends sounds like a very rare, down-to-earth good guy. From what you say, he doesn't seem to bear any hatred or resentment towards his ex-boss. Such a great guy. I really hope things improve for him, and you too. Really breaks my heart to read about his plight.

 

On a side note: one thing I really hate are companies that insist on speaking to your previous boss as a condition to hiring you. I know Mindef has such a HR policy.

 

It's ridiculous! Because in cases where the boss was in the wrong when he terminated the staff, he will definitely badmouth the potential candidate and try to sabo him.

[Guest Guest]

That's interesting. Accountants are really the easiest job in the entire world to do start ups in Singapore now. As long as he has the qualifications, he can go around marketing his services to anyone and he can even operate from home. If he doesn't, with his previous experience, he should be able to get qualified pretty quickly.  And he can earn a few thousands dollars from each company to run through all their financial numbers of the entire year, even though the numbers can be very messy sometimes. And the best part is, he has no shortage of companies to market his abilities to, because every single business will need to report their numbers to the IRAS at least once a year. 

 

So he needs to think a bit creatively to get out of the dark patch now. Entrepreneurship is the way to go for many PMETs nowadays. Your bf is in a very good position to do an accounting firm start up. And his startup costs is near to zero too, even though the initial business development of getting companies to sign up with him can be quite difficult at the start. But again, he was already in the line, so he might be able to poach the old companies he worked for. If he feels bad about doing that, then go approach their next door neighbors. 

 

Good luck. 

[kaze]

to the above guest, i understand you are trying to console TS.. but please do not make certain claims if you are unsure of the job.

 

accounting is the easiest job? clearly an understatement. if it is so simple, is there a need for a governing body and so many respective authority board to maintain control? what defines expenses and what defines assets. don't undermine a profession simply due to your lack of knowledge on the job.

 

near to zero start up cost? you're not quite right in that.. his bf needs a decent accounting software if he wants to be a freelancer cuz his accounting software would have to be able to sustain the requirements of different companies ranging in different industries.

 

apart from the above 2, i do agree with your comment on the whole. TS, it might be an idea for your bf to prolly take up freelance assignments. go to ACRA and he would be able to build up on his prospective list of clients rite? otherwise, share in his facebook status and ask his friends and family to share that post.. it is a form of marketing still..

 

Lastly, i'm pretty sure he can be straight forward with the reason for his resignation for future interviews. I personally see it as this, if the current interviewer (company) will mind him for refusal to do creative accounting, that company isnt a good fit for him anyway.. no harm done. if the company doesnt mind it, its actually a "plus" point for him right?

[Guest Guest]

51 minutes ago, kaze said:

accounting is the easiest job? clearly an understatement. if it is so simple, is there a need for a governing body and so many respective authority board to maintain control? what defines expenses and what defines assets. don't undermine a profession simply due to your lack of knowledge on the job.

 

Read in the full context, can or not?  Who said accounting is the easiest job? I said ....

 

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Accountants are really the easiest job in the entire world to do start ups in Singapore now.

 

 

53 minutes ago, kaze said:

near to zero start up cost? you're not quite right in that.. his bf needs a decent accounting software if he wants to be a freelancer cuz his accounting software would have to be able to sustain the requirements of different companies ranging in different industries.

And how much do you think that software cost? A couple thousand price tag is an overkill already...

 

[Guest Contented]

Life's not perfect but at least you have each other in what sounds like a very strong relationship. So some other guy has got a better paying job with more prospects. But he might also be surfing bw whilst his kids and wife are asleep.

[Guest I know]

9 hours ago, CKW said:

 

It's ridiculous! Because in cases where the boss was in the wrong when he terminated the staff, he will definitely badmouth the potential candidate and try to sabo him.

Not only the boss, any office staff who play politics to kick him out or the HR manager who are not professional will not do any favour when they pick up the calls of the checker.  I personally feel that if the company do not trust anybody, don't employ.  If they want to employ a candidate, they need to have element of trust and all these should be carried out at the point of interview.   I personally have underwent a good interview and met all the quality the employer was seeking, and he simply kill my interest by seeking a piece of testimonial which I have none to give.  Thereafter, I realised he cannot find another suitable candidate through his regular advertisments in jobstreet and jobsbank.  The recruiter deserve all the trouble for the unnecessary request.  Furthermore,  saying all boss in the interview room have good integrity is an overstatement.  If you tell time frankly the reason for your leaving, they will start deducing that you are not being flexible to your boss, you can't think out of the box, you are not creative enough, you are disobedient, you are too strict....etc etc.   Honesty sometime didn't quite pay off, you are judged for being good or being wrong.   The best is either they take you or leave you.  Too many details sharing may not necessarily land you a job either.   Some company or the HR or the boss love to create too much hassle in the interview process can be annoying to many good and talented people.  It is extremely counter-productive and the end result they get all the wrong people (some from degree mill).

[kaze]

8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

Read in the full context, can or not?  Who said accounting is the easiest job? I said ....

 

 

 

And how much do you think that software cost? A couple thousand price tag is an overkill already...

 

 

I would love to see you start up an accounting firm since its so easy in your opinion.

[Guest bEn]

Get your bf to watch this movie

 

[CKW]

4 hours ago, Guest I know said:

Not only the boss, any office staff who play politics to kick him out or the HR manager who are not professional will not do any favour when they pick up the calls of the checker.  I personally feel that if the company do not trust anybody, don't employ.  If they want to employ a candidate, they need to have element of trust and all these should be carried out at the point of interview.   I personally have underwent a good interview and met all the quality the employer was seeking, and he simply kill my interest by seeking a piece of testimonial which I have none to give.  Thereafter, I realised he cannot find another suitable candidate through his regular advertisments in jobstreet and jobsbank.  The recruiter deserve all the trouble for the unnecessary request.  Furthermore,  saying all boss in the interview room have good integrity is an overstatement.  If you tell time frankly the reason for your leaving, they will start deducing that you are not being flexible to your boss, you can't think out of the box, you are not creative enough, you are disobedient, you are too strict....etc etc.   Honesty sometime didn't quite pay off, you are judged for being good or being wrong.   The best is either they take you or leave you.  Too many details sharing may not necessarily land you a job either.   Some company or the HR or the boss love to create too much hassle in the interview process can be annoying to many good and talented people.  It is extremely counter-productive and the end result they get all the wrong people (some from degree mill).

 

Exactly!

 

I really hate those companies that refuse to give you a chance to restart afresh but insist on digging up all your past history, and from your previous bosses' points of view!

 

I remember last time my Mindef job application required me to give them the particulars of my ex-supervisor, so that they can ask him/her how I was. 

 

I feel like that is a gross invasion of privacy. Even if I had left the previous company on a good note, I wouldn't like the prospective company to call my ex-company to ask all kinds of things. And surely, after the call, the ex-supervisor will tell everyone about it. 

 

And I also had to give them the names of two ex-colleagues, which I did, with their permission. One ex-colleague told me that the Mindef HR staff called her, and asked her a lot of questions about me, taking up a very long time. I felt so pai seh after that.

 

And in the end, they still didn't hire me. 

 

Imagine if before dating someone, your boyfriend/girlfriend insists on speaking to all your previous partners to find out why they broke up with you.

 

That's how ridiculous it is. 

 

Basically, if your ex-boss was nasty to you, they are going to say a tonne of s**t about you to your prospective employer, and you won't be able to defend yourself at all. The prospective employer is going to hear only one side of any story that the ex-boss chooses to spout. 

 

 

And Mindef has another ridiculous HR rule: If you want to transfer out of your department to another department, or to another unit, (let's say, because your superior is abusing you), your application needs to come from your immediate superior!

 

If he says "no", then you can't go anywhere. You will remain being abused and miserable. (Seriously, which boss will let a staff go that he can abuse and dump all the work to, etc?!)

 

 

You can't transfer using your own rights as a Mindef staff. And often, it's too risky to resign and re-apply because they will ask you a thousand reasons why you left Mindef, and you will have to go through the whole shi**y Mindef hiring process as mentioned above.

 

So the ads you see on the buses and newspaper where they say Mindef jobs help you to soar in your career are all false.

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by CKW

[Guest Worker Rights]

The worst thing about current labour movement in Asia  is that evaluation is one sided and unfair from China to Indonesia

There must be an evaluation of the reporting officer by colleagues and staff members as well to keep malevolent abusers of power in place. 

 

So, despite the appearance of a modern HR, the employment practice is still very steeped in feudal approach and so many people like the Accountant are just victimized. 

 

[Guest Guest]

21 hours ago, CKW said:

 

F__k the local boss for claiming that he needed to "cut cost" and then still brought in his fat bitch incompetent relative!

 

Very sorry to hear about it. Your boyfriends sounds like a very rare, down-to-earth good guy. From what you say, he doesn't seem to bear any hatred or resentment towards his ex-boss. Such a great guy. I really hope things improve for him, and you too. Really breaks my heart to read about his plight.

 

On a side note: one thing I really hate are companies that insist on speaking to your previous boss as a condition to hiring you. I know Mindef has such a HR policy.

 

It's ridiculous! Because in cases where the boss was in the wrong when he terminated the staff, he will definitely badmouth the potential candidate and try to sabo him.

Midef check kpkb..mindef dont check kpkb. Isnt it you guys want more checks but only if it does not inconvinence you is it?

 

Back to TS...when will this TV movie be out? Let us know.

 

TS bf is accountant,  but have to work in port now? Really? Cannot get job in restaurant or even Mcd's management trainee? Same pay and got AC..

 

Will the port or psa even employ TS BF in the 1st place?

 

Port is also a restricted area how come TS and BF can meet in port leh?

 

Why TS BF did not whistle blow leh? 

 

Accountants are one of the rare ones who can work in multiple trades. Cannot find job? 

 

TS..you write story or tv movie?

[Guest Siao]

12 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Midef check kpkb..mindef dont check kpkb. Isnt it you guys want more checks but only if it does not inconvinence you is it?

 

Back to TS...when will this TV movie be out? Let us know.

 

TS bf is accountant,  but have to work in port now? Really? Cannot get job in restaurant or even Mcd's management trainee? Same pay and got AC..

 

Will the port or psa even employ TS BF in the 1st place?

 

Port is also a restricted area how come TS and BF can meet in port leh?

 

Why TS BF did not whistle blow leh? 

 

Accountants are one of the rare ones who can work in multiple trades. Cannot find job? 

 

TS..you write story or tv movie?

Restuarant and Mcdonald customer service line too exposed to public.  Some people want to stay away from frontline service.

BF cannot meet afterwork near port area?

Whistle blow got used meh? Corruption is everywhere and no one is still caught.  Life move on and keep low profile from the limelight.  Karma will catch the boss.

The govt call for change of mindset, transform and take on different line.  You didn't read news ah?

What kind of story or movie you want, I can send you more.

[doncoin]

Having interviewed people for positions in my company, I can say this. When it comes down to the final 2 or 3 candidates, pretty much every one is more or less equal at this point with the qualifications and experience. What will tip the scale comes down to attitude, and how well the candidate can fit into the team dynamics. There is no black and white answer to that. However, this is where references comes in. By talking to a former supervisor, we get a better sense of the candidate and we co-relate the feedback with the answers the candidate gave during interview. That is why we usually ask for 2 to 3 references. In the event, the candidate had a negative feedback from one, at least the other reference can say something different. That is why it is important to choose your reference carefully. Do not burn bridges. What is preferable is your direct former supervisor, and one other person, i.e. manager from another team whom you have worked with on a project or 2 and have a good relationship. 

 

Usually when we asked references, especially the former supervisor, it would be more in terms what was the candidate's work attitude like? Do you turn in projects on time. Need lots of constant supervision or can be left alone to deliver project at an agreed time and date, etc. Also to check to see if there has been growth, i.e. you started as receptionist, but got promoted to become assistant etc. 

 

When references give too much negative reviews, usually you can sense the person has a vendetta against the candidate. This is especially true when the question asked was more inline with work attitude etc. and the reference instead of answering the question, talks about his or her point of view/feelings about the candidate. When that happens, we know the reference is not being objective.

[wintersnow]

12 hours ago, CKW said:

 

Exactly!

 

I really hate those companies that refuse to give you a chance to restart afresh but insist on digging up all your past history, and from your previous bosses' points of view!

 

I remember last time my Mindef job application required me to give them the particulars of my ex-supervisor, so that they can ask him/her how I was. 

 

I feel like that is a gross invasion of privacy. Even if I had left the previous company on a good note, I wouldn't like the prospective company to call my ex-company to ask all kinds of things. And surely, after the call, the ex-supervisor will tell everyone about it. 

 

And I also had to give them the names of two ex-colleagues, which I did, with their permission. One ex-colleague told me that the Mindef HR staff called her, and asked her a lot of questions about me, taking up a very long time. I felt so pai seh after that.

 

And in the end, they still didn't hire me. 

 

Imagine if before dating someone, your boyfriend/girlfriend insists on speaking to all your previous partners to find out why they broke up with you.

 

That's how ridiculous it is. 

 

Basically, if your ex-boss was nasty to you, they are going to say a tonne of s**t about you to your prospective employer, and you won't be able to defend yourself at all. The prospective employer is going to hear only one side of any story that the ex-boss chooses to spout. 

 

 

And Mindef has another ridiculous HR rule: If you want to transfer out of your department to another department, or to another unit, (let's say, because your superior is abusing you), your application needs to come from your immediate superior!

 

If he says "no", then you can't go anywhere. You will remain being abused and miserable. (Seriously, which boss will let a staff go that he can abuse and dump all the work to, etc?!)

 

 

You can't transfer using your own rights as a Mindef staff. And often, it's too risky to resign and re-apply because they will ask you a thousand reasons why you left Mindef, and you will have to go through the whole shi**y Mindef hiring process as mentioned above.

 

So the ads you see on the buses and newspaper where they say Mindef jobs help you to soar in your career are all false.

 

i almost lost my previous job because the stupid recruitment company insisted on a reference and the reference must be a superior.

 

my previous superior wasnt too inclined to be contacted so i had no choice but to bother those long retired expats who didnt reply me in time.

 

luckily, i managed to find a kind indirect report to help me with it

 

my point is, all these checks are so unnecessary and such invasion of privacy. your performance in ur previous job doesnt equates to your future performance regardless how simillar both jobs are

[doncoin]

9 minutes ago, wintersnow said:

i almost lost my previous job because the stupid recruitment company insisted on a reference and the reference must be a superior.

 

my previous superior wasnt too inclined to be contacted so i had no choice but to bother those long retired expats who didnt reply me in time.

 

luckily, i managed to find a kind indirect report to help me with it

 

my point is, all these checks are so unnecessary and such invasion of privacy. your performance in ur previous job doesnt equates to your future performance regardless how simillar both jobs are

 

I do understand how inconvenient these checks seem to be, but they tend to add some weight in employment decision. Asking a superior as a reference is a standard practice. It is not an invasion of privacy, when on the application form, we ask if you would provide 2-3 references. 

 

You've made a point that previous job performance does not equate to future performance, but they do give a sense of how well you have grown or developed in your previous job and if you are ready for the next level, especially when you are interviewing for a higher position. Even if you only worked 1 year in your previous or current job, and to be honest, hated your boss, and everything about the company, you need to keep those feelings to yourself during the interview and focus on what you have done to show growth in other areas if your job is not letting you thrive. 

[Guest Terrible]

Robert Half called my company before I even quitted to check on me.  My boss asked me what was going on, did I went around looking for job?  All these checking is completing inconveniencing many people.  I have no reference, you can don't shortlist me, I am willing to pass on the chance to your next candidate and remember to ask him to thank me if he got shortlisted by you. Period.

[Roy2017]

Hahaha probally the balancesheet cannot be total up. Shit ......

[Guest Guest]

19 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

I do understand how inconvenient these checks seem to be, but they tend to add some weight in employment decision. Asking a superior as a reference is a standard practice. It is not an invasion of privacy, when on the application form, we ask if you would provide 2-3 references. 

 

You may ask for references, but it is an serious invasion of our privacy if you are to approach our friends or fellow workers without our permission, and give them even the slightest hint of our job seeking activities. This will jeopardize our future career progression within the current organization if the current employer is aware that we have interests in moving on elsewhere. If we do not get the job for which the checks were intended for, who will compensate us if we get discriminated against during the next promotional exercises. This is pure common-sense ethics. 

[Guest Sucks]

20 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

I do understand how inconvenient these checks seem to be, but they tend to add some weight in employment decision. Asking a superior as a reference is a standard practice. It is not an invasion of privacy, when on the application form, we ask if you would provide 2-3 references. 

 

It was like asking to check on the size of our dick before a blow job.

[Guest What]

I believed companies forbid staff in a relationship to work in the same department as there is conflict of interest. Your boss probably knows the two of you have been sucking each other's cock hence one of you had to be fired.

[doncoin]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

 

You may ask for references, but it is an serious invasion of our privacy if you are to approach our friends or fellow workers without our permission, and give them even the slightest hint of our job seeking activities. This will jeopardize our future career progression within the current organization if the current employer is aware that we have interests in moving on elsewhere. If we do not get the job for which the checks were intended for, who will compensate us if we get discriminated against during the next promotional exercises. This is pure common-sense ethics. 

 

In my company, employment application form, there is usually a waiver clause at the end of the form which states  that the applicant is aware that the company will run a background check and will contact the references you have provided, and you have to check the box and sign to agree to it. So it is not a serious invasion of privacy when you have checked and signed. You may not be aware but it is normal for companies to run background checks on prospective employees prior to the making an offer. However if you don't wish to waive the right, you need to provide a good reason and explanation, which to date, I have yet to come across a candidate who refused. 

 

If you do not want to list your current direct supervisor as a reference due to concerns, state that in the application form and let the person who interviewed you know, and explain why. For lack of a better word, your reference is like a character witness. You get those when you leave school (not sure about the past 20 years, from your teacher) and in your report book/card, you get those comments. 

 

Here are some of the questions I will ask the reference: 

• What is his work attitude? Does he show up to work on time? Turn in projects on time etc? 
• Can he work independently or does he require constant supervision? 
• What are some of the challenges this person face working in your company?
• What are some of the areas this person can improve on? 
• If this person stays in your company for another year, do you think he will demonstrate career growth and why?

The questions asked has very little to do with the personal life of the candidate. It is focused on the professional life. Think of it as Yelp. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by doncoin

[Guest Guest]

4 minutes ago, doncoin said:

 

In my company, employment application form, there is usually a waiver clause at the end of the form which states  that the applicant is aware that the company will run a background check and will contact the references you have provided, and you have to check the box and sign to agree to it. So it is not a serious invasion of privacy when you have checked and signed. You may not be aware but it is normal for companies to run background checks on prospective employees prior to the making an offer. However if you don't wish to waive the right, you need to provide a good reason and explanation, which to date, I have yet to come across a candidate who refused. 

 

If you do not want to list your current direct supervisor as a reference due to concerns, state that in the application form and let the person who interviewed you know, and explain why. For lack of a better word, your reference is like a character witness. You get those when you leave school (not sure about the past 20 years, from your teacher) and in your report book/card, you get those comments. 

 

Here are some of the questions I will ask the reference: 

• What is his work attitude? Does he show up to work on time? Turn in projects on time etc? 
• Can he work independently or does he require constant supervision? 
• What are some of the challenges this person face working in your company?
• What are some of the areas this person can improve on? 
• If this person stays in your company for another year, do you think he will demonstrate career growth and why?

The questions asked has very little to do with the personal life of the candidate. It is focused on the professional life. Think of it as Yelp. 

 

You explanations doesn't negate the fact that any direct contacts to the immediate supervisors may jeopardize the person's career prospects within his current organization, regardless if the questions are valid or not, professional or not. 

 

Just because there is a check box for you to tick off as a waiver for you to use,  doesn't make it an ethical thing to do. What if the candidates fail to check it off, and the interviewer failed to notice it and called up the supervisor? Take a look at the above case of Robert Half agent calling up the candidate's supervisor, is that even a right thing to do?  In your haste to find out more about the candidates, you seems more than willing to sacrifice the candidate's right to his privacy. This is too high handed and wrong. 

[doncoin]

4 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

You explanations doesn't negate the fact that any direct contacts to the immediate supervisors may jeopardize the person's career prospects within his current organization, regardless if the questions are valid or not, professional or not. 

 

Just because there is a check box for you to tick off as a waiver for you to use,  doesn't make it an ethical thing to do. What if the candidates fail to check it off, and the interviewer failed to notice it and called up the supervisor? Take a look at the above case of Robert Half agent calling up the candidate's supervisor, is that even a right thing to do?  In your haste to find out more about the candidates, you seems more than willing to sacrifice the candidate's right to his privacy. This is too high handed and wrong. 

 

NWould you hire someone solely based on what he presents to you during the interview with no way to fact check?

 

References are usually asked of current supervisor for a simple reason so that we can know about the candidate's work attitude etc. not his personal life. If naming your current supervisor is an issue, you can always use someone else like a former teacher etc. Like it or not, it is part of a job application which is why try not to burn too many bridges.  

 

When you check the waiver clause, it does give the company the right to run a background check. That means you gave the company permission to conduct its due diligence on your professional background.  

 

In the instance where a candidate does not check on the waiver, as a potential employer, we have the right to know why. 

 

With regards to the Robert Half agent calling, did you look at the application form carefully when filling in the part of references? If honestly, having someone as a reference is an issue, then you will have some problems getting a job in any Fortune 500 company. My personal point of view about that is that the agent did not check carefully on the waiver. If you did not sign the waiver, alert the person so that they know. Don't assume. 

 

If producing a reference is such a pain, your best option is to just say "Available upon request." Just keep in mind they cannot be friends and family, but people you have a professional relationship with. 

 

 

 

[Guest Fatty]

TS who did your bf vote for ?

[Guest Guest]

1 minute ago, Guest Fatty said:

TS who did your bf vote for ?

 

Against whoever you voted for.

[Guest Guest]

9 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

Against whoever you voted for.

But there are many hardcore anti gay people in opposition parties.

[Guest Guest]

4 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

But there are many hardcore anti gay people in opposition parties.

 

You think there aren't any in the ruling party?

[Guest From HR perspective]

11 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

NWould you hire someone solely based on what he presents to you during the interview with no way to fact check?

 

Our company used to have such policies, but we ended up with very little applicants though some "sincere" ones made  good effort to allow us to scrutinise them, reference check and even took our aptitute test, went through 3 interviews process.  Eventually we found the right candidate with good credential to fit into the role.  Within 2 months, the candidate quitted.  At the exit interview, he told us that he has found an even better job.  The same process repeated, we brought in 2nd candidate into our organisation, within half a year, he quitted.  During the exit interview, he told us that he cannot stand working with his other colleagues because of crashed in thinking, he left.   3rd candidate came in with pages of testimonials, we bought into it and he too, quitted by tell us that the company is not a good fit.  Eventually, my boss scrapped all the crappy "good candidates" and told the HR to bring in someone with good employment history, at least staying in a company for at least a good number of years.  Due to urgency for the role and numerous staff turnover, we scrapped all the reference checking process which encourage more people to apply too. 

[Guest Guest]

21 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

NWould you hire someone solely based on what he presents to you during the interview with no way to fact check?

 

References are usually asked of current supervisor for a simple reason so that we can know about the candidate's work attitude etc. not his personal life. If naming your current supervisor is an issue, you can always use someone else like a former teacher etc. Like it or not, it is part of a job application which is why try not to burn too many bridges.  

 

When you check the waiver clause, it does give the company the right to run a background check. That means you gave the company permission to conduct its due diligence on your professional background.  

 

In the instance where a candidate does not check on the waiver, as a potential employer, we have the right to know why. 

 

With regards to the Robert Half agent calling, did you look at the application form carefully when filling in the part of references? If honestly, having someone as a reference is an issue, then you will have some problems getting a job in any Fortune 500 company. My personal point of view about that is that the agent did not check carefully on the waiver. If you did not sign the waiver, alert the person so that they know. Don't assume. 

 

If producing a reference is such a pain, your best option is to just say "Available upon request." Just keep in mind they cannot be friends and family, but people you have a professional relationship with. 

 

 

 

 

First and foremost, my entire career was built in Fortune 500 companies. In all of them, I put down the phrase "available upon request" in all referees requests.  

 

All those who showed any form of respect to my privacy would wait till the final round of interview before they ask me for that reference. If you are worth any salt, you should know better than to call my current CEO or my country MD directly for any matter, much less about my professional performance. Even if I am to give any referees, i would at best give those of my fellow directors (close ones too)  and let them know when to expect the calls. 

 

Calling up my referees without letting either them or I know in advance is really a double whammy, in the intrusion of my privacy and the creation of their inconveniences. 

 

In the employer-employee relationship, it is not always about EMPLOYER all the time. If you can not even learn to respect such basic human rights, you don't deserve any good employees. 

 

Even if you will not hire someone solely based on what he presents to you during the interview with no way to fact check, that's not an excuse for you to call up anyone suddenly and unexpectedly, regardless the presence of the waiver clause or no waiver clause. This is common-sense ethics. If you have an issue with such basic human mutual respect, you go work around the issues yourself. Don't tell the world that you have the right to disregard everyone just because you are working in Fortune 500 company. Because such behavior is primitively 3rd world, regardless ithe company is Fortune 500 or not, and regardless if some of your candidates are willing to go through that type of shit for you or not. 

[xavier ian]

My best prayer to both of you to soon get a better life and to be happily supporting each other!

[doncoin]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

 

First and foremost, my entire career was built in Fortune 500 companies. In all of them, I put down the phrase "available upon request" in all referees requests.  

 

All those who showed any form of respect to my privacy would wait till the final round of interview before they ask me for that reference. If you are worth any salt, you should know better than to call my current CEO or my country MD directly for any matter, much less about my professional performance. Even if I am to give any referees, i would at best give those of my fellow directors (close ones too)  and let them know when to expect the calls. 

 

Calling up my referees without letting either them or I know in advance is really a double whammy, in the intrusion of my privacy and the creation of their inconveniences. 

 

In the employer-employee relationship, it is not always about EMPLOYER all the time. If you can not even learn to respect such basic human rights, you don't deserve any good employees. 

 

Even if you will not hire someone solely based on what he presents to you during the interview with no way to fact check, that's not an excuse for you to call up anyone suddenly and unexpectedly, regardless the presence of the waiver clause or no waiver clause. This is common-sense ethics. If you have an issue with such basic human mutual respect, you go work around the issues yourself. Don't tell the world that you have the right to disregard everyone just because you are working in Fortune 500 company. Because such behavior is primitively 3rd world, regardless ithe company is Fortune 500 or not, and regardless if some of your candidates are willing to go through that type of shit for you or not. 

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, we will ask for references from the final candidates, and upon receiving the contact information, it is made clear that we will reach out to the references to discuss about the candidate's job performance. So I do not see how that is an invasion of privacy. Calling your direct MD or anyone other than the people who listed as references is wrong, and I agree with that. 

 

Usually it is in the higher level jobs that we ask for references. If someone is applying as a receptionist or assistant, a reference is hardly needed, or someone freshly out of school.  Usually the ones that require references are more managerial positions. 

 

There is legal framework as to what we can and cannot do as potential employers and privacy concerns, which is why we have the waiver clause in the application form. As I had mention, if the candidate refuses to sign the waiver, we need to know why. I think it is fair enough to ask why. 

 

As an employer, I think my business partner and I have a belief that we are here to create and help our employees/team grow professionally and individually. We are a boutique firm, and we set out things that we have learnt from past jobs/companies to shape what we want out of our work/life to have balance. 

 

I am sorry that you may have had an unfortunate situation where the HR agent called your reference without your permission. I agree that that is simply rude and unethical. Usually, when I call to discuss about a candidate, after securing the candidate's permission, I will write an email asking for a time to speak with the reference, versus calling without setting up an appointment. 

 

Good employees/team members are hard to get. It takes time to build a team and create the dynamics you want. We also know that there will come a time when some will grow and our company may no longer be the best fit for their growth, and in those times, we do encourage them to seek higher positions else where and we provide the reference. Sometimes, even referring to other jobs with the contacts we have. 

[doncoin]

11 hours ago, Guest From HR perspective said:

Our company used to have such policies, but we ended up with very little applicants though some "sincere" ones made  good effort to allow us to scrutinise them, reference check and even took our aptitute test, went through 3 interviews process.  Eventually we found the right candidate with good credential to fit into the role.  Within 2 months, the candidate quitted.  At the exit interview, he told us that he has found an even better job.  The same process repeated, we brought in 2nd candidate into our organisation, within half a year, he quitted.  During the exit interview, he told us that he cannot stand working with his other colleagues because of crashed in thinking, he left.   3rd candidate came in with pages of testimonials, we bought into it and he too, quitted by tell us that the company is not a good fit.  Eventually, my boss scrapped all the crappy "good candidates" and told the HR to bring in someone with good employment history, at least staying in a company for at least a good number of years.  Due to urgency for the role and numerous staff turnover, we scrapped all the reference checking process which encourage more people to apply too. 

 

Hmmm... Interesting to know. 

 

I supposed a leap of blind faith is required from time to time. So if I am to put in my CV i graduated from Oxford, and have a MBA from Havard Business School, you would hire me? 

[Guest The Boss]

10 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

Hmmm... Interesting to know. 

 

I supposed a leap of blind faith is required from time to time. So if I am to put in my CV i graduated from Oxford, and have a MBA from Havard Business School, 1   you would hire me? 

No.  I am not bureaucratic nor stubbornly insist the candidate must be as perfect as Jesus for a job.   My expected qualifications and requirements are how well the candidate can answers to my questions and present himself during the interview.  Sometimes a little cassual chit-chat (not related to the work) adds a final touch to feel the candidates personality and how he bonds with you during the conversation.   I also like candidates who asked a lot of questions instead of being asked. Interview will during take more than 1 hour.  I do not like to conduct interview that last less than half hour and requested candidate to come for a 2nd and 3rd times.   You can say I want people to feel warm and casual as not to stress them out and I have people calling up to see if they were successful.  My style of interview shows that people eventually felt very keen to join the company because they believe that is the kind of environment that they want to establish their career.  I also tell my staff to treat every interviewees with courtesy and serve drinks while they were waiting in the room. 

 

Even with that kind of non-stressful environment to ease the candidate, some candidate walked in like a boss and displayed certain attitude towards our receptionist who was exceptionally polite.  These people tend to have strong self-esteemed problem, highly paid in the past with papers to prove their capability but lacking in soft skill to handle people.    I have once upon a time came across a final candidate with all the criterias we needed but he killed himself when answering my simple question with his "What do you think?".   He never heard from us again and we shortlisted the less likely candidate, with not much of paper to prove, but stayed with us until now and he get along very well with others.

[Guest Assistant]

I am boiling already!  My bf has to work on weekend, on a rainy day, at a PORT.  Where is justice in Singapore.

[Guest Singaporean]

13 minutes ago, Guest Assistant said:

I am boiling already!  My bf has to work on weekend, on a rainy day, at a PORT.  Where is justice in Singapore.

Are singaporean such wussies? No wonder foerigners are everywhere taking over our jobs. Just a little hardship and whining.

 

Quit complaining like a girl both of you need to man up.

[Guest Assistant]

17 minutes ago, Guest Singaporean said:

Are singaporean such wussies? No wonder foerigners are everywhere taking over our jobs. Just a little hardship and whining.

 

Quit complaining like a girl both of you need to man up.

FYI, I am a "girl" and I will not stop complaining.

[Guest Stoopid is as stoopid does]

How are you so sure Guest Assistant is Singaporean? Notice how ready you are to condemn Singaporeans. 

[doncoin]

6 hours ago, Guest Assistant said:

I am boiling already!  My bf has to work on weekend, on a rainy day, at a PORT.  Where is justice in Singapore.

 

 

Well instead of complaining, how about helping your bf instead? Complaining is not going to accomplish anything. Prepare a nice hot meal for him after work, give him a massage etc. I think your emotions are misdirected.

 

I think you should ask where the justice is in the weather system for having the audacity to rain on a weekend when your bf is working. 

[Guest Assistant]

12 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

 

Well instead of complaining, how about helping your bf instead? Complaining is not going to accomplish anything. Prepare a nice hot meal for him after work, give him a massage etc. I think your emotions are misdirected.

 

I am going to do just that. Make him a wholesome nice sandwishes and bring with me home-make and fresh thick coffee since it is likely to rain again tonight.  Anyway, I need him to help me unwrap my bandage because I am scared of how it looks like.

[yoyo74]

Your bf can also change to a lower paid job that he likes. The choice is up to him to choose. Earning below average income can also survive if he know how to plan financially and whats more you are partnered with him and can support each other. You all can buy a house together if you want, help each other on house hold chores etc. Most important is you all happily living together.

[Guest Assistant]

Saw my bf talking to another guy while I waited for him,  The guy is very good-looking than me.  I told my bf to look for new job because people here said he can fetch better pay elsewhere.   He asked me why I think so.  I think I am feeling insecured having him worked with so many men in the port.  Am I thinking too much?

[doncoin]

20 minutes ago, Guest Assistant said:

Saw my bf talking to another guy while I waited for him,  The guy is very good-looking than me.  I told my bf to look for new job because people here said he can fetch better pay elsewhere.   He asked me why I think so.  I think I am feeling insecured having him worked with so many men in the port.  Am I thinking too much?

 

Your bf can change 100s of jobs but it is not going to remove your insecurities. You need to figure out what caused you to feel that way. 

 

[Guest Assistant]

Heard news that there were fire everywhere, happened mostly at petroleumn site area and the weather was terribly hot.  Are these a coincident?  I am having anxiety now.

[Guest Assistant]

The bitch was sacked!!!  I asked by bf whether he want to return, but he think "good horse, won't return tot he same pasture".   Is it true?

[auscent]

1 hour ago, Guest Assistant said:

I asked by bf whether he want to return, but he think "good horse, won't return tot he same pasture".   Is it true?

What do u think? What is ur view?

[Guest Assistant]

1 hour ago, auscent said:

What do u think? What is ur view?

I don't know.  I know of friend who after leaving their previous company weren't able to secure jobs elsewhere and have to return to the same company they left before.  I think my bf got integrity, die die also won't want to see his previous boss again. This type of bf I like, he got "bone" and not the desperate type.

[Guest Fatty]

Why don't you ask your bf to take skills future course to upgrade himself?

[tampguy]

20 hours ago, Guest Assistant said:

The bitch was sacked!!!  I asked by bf whether he want to return, but he think "good horse, won't return tot he same pasture".   Is it true?

I do not agree... I left the company once and returned to the same company after 2 years as I am not used to the new company culture.   My HOD asked me back after knowing I did not like the new place .  After I returned to the old company,  my colleagues from other dept teased me good horse won't return to the same pasture,  I just smiled and brushed it off by saying I miss all of you too much so I come back and they laughed too and said welcome back again!  It is very common as I have few colleagues from other dept left for a period of time coming back again in my current workplace... More importantly is your boss does not mind and welcome you back and u get your job back...