Popular Post ctglobal Posted May 25, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) I had read various posts and had conversations recently about relationships. Some individuals have no idea what they want ("just wan boyfriend loh"), then unsurprisingly have trouble finding it. Some couples seem to have no expectations and coast by, until one half of the couple suddenly has an inkling this isn't working anymore, and then the whole thing destructs (cue Channel 8 drama). Some find utter magic and develop it into something that could only be described as surreal or spine tingling in terms of chemistry and perspective. I read their accounts with a mix of reverence tinged with both admiration and jealousy. I desire this latter category of relationship, but feel at times I have struggled to evolve such a reality. I wonder why? Not for lack of trying. I had considered many things over the course of a long time dating, perhaps to the point of it becoming its own strange hobby or experiment. But hey, if I am having the experiences (a novel in itself, rest assured!), I might as well learn from them, right? First, through much challenge, effort, soul-searching, and utter failure many times, the desired characteristics in a partner, in shortlist: Flexible, self-actualised, well-rounded, thoughtful, fit (not necessarily gym bunny, but maintained), confident, empathetic, mature, intelligent, travel savvy, romantic, honest, trustworthy, resourceful, international in outlook. Not necessarily defined by career, money, family, or friends. Thinks for oneself and independent. Recognises life's more than societal constructs, that we are born into freedom and into a universe of possibility. Passionate about achieving something positive for themselves and in the larger world around them. Compassionate, kinky, considered, interested, curious, creative, delving. If I could get 80% of that, it would probably do. I'm not perfect, he wouldn't be either. That would probably keep things interesting anyway. I also knew what I *DIDN'T* want and actively needed to screen for-- and my god, on apps, websites, and even in person, the stuff that turns up sometimes is otherworldly: The self-destructive, confused and closeted bisexuals and/or married types (that's generally someone who is going to walk out on you, from my experience, as their priorities were already elsewhere), anyone who already has a partner or unresolved "its complicated" partner-like situation (ditto), careeraholics, the discretion obsessed, people not height/weight proportionate (nobody's perfect, but please at least try like I do), pathological liars, anyone describes themselves as "boring" "bored" or anything similar (it is the brand of the uninspired), "simple" people who really aren't simple (and they never are, so let's just be honest shall we...), mood swingers, anorexics, those messaging with just the word "seek?" (you feel me on this, I know it...), people just breezing through town looking for a hookup, students home on holiday, escorts and money boys--- in short, all the unhealthy time wasting distractions that circumstances can regurgitate. Second, a visualisation of what the "ideal relationship" would or should look like (read: not that it wouldn't ever have its own rainy day, but something to at least aim for; again, informed by all the stuff that DIDN'T work in the past): Concentrated, communicative, synergistic, growth-oriented, embracing, thought provoking, discovering, erotic, productive, effective, loving, considerate, complimentary, honest, realistic, engaging, present/undistracted, reinforcing, achieving, accomplishing, building, doing, seeing, trying, exploring, loyal, evolving, adapting, curious, supportive, iterative, driven, and functionally strong. There would inevitably be hiccups, long discussions/negotiations, and recalibrations required but, that is the gist. And then I came across another person's interpretation, which I think also reinforces what I already envisaged: "Growth-based relationships are mutually supporting. They are entered into by mature, self-reliant individuals who take responsibility for their lives, as individuals and as partners in a relationship. Each is dedicated to the growth of the other as well as his or her own. Growth-based relationships don't just happen. They are created by people who know themselves and what they want. Being in touch with their own desire to express their best, each partner recognizes and supports that desire in their mate. Because they themselves are risk-takers, they are supportive of the risks their partners take and understand the vulnerability of the creative life. These individuals are working on themselves as whole people, not halves of a relationship. They know that 1/2x1/2 = 1/4, not one. They also know that 1+1 = 3 if the right effort is made." Beautiful, clear, simple. And 99% of the gay world has no idea what you are talking about. Fabulous screening tool, or set-up for mission impossible? So, there-- the "who" and the "what" of the desired picture, the relationship "ideal". The kicker is then the "how", the conjuring, the operationalising of all that. Now here's the thing. I have come close-but-not-quite-cigar to getting the above ideal on many occasions. It's almost as if the universe threw darts repeatedly at the bullseye on my behalf, but missed continuously for comedic emphasis. The current relationship I have I feel has a good combination of many of the things I had imagined (really, a good guy as far as I have seen thus far), but at times still seems to lack a coherence and direction to it-- and not for lack of trying on my part, perhaps his too. I keep wondering to myself: ok, so how much of the "magic" that others discover is something painstakingly nurtured and developed, and to what extent are all the right cards inherently on the table to begin with between the two people involved, just needing the right shuffle? Do I/we try to further develop this? Can I/we realistically develop this? Are we really growing together? Has it reached its own sort of plateau already? Or will it turn some bold new corner as some complicated details of life get further sorted out? If so, what might that take? Or do we ride this some months down the road until we both realise we are on the train to fizzlesville-- or worse, divergent junctures-- once more? Before this whole thing started, I had no expectations. A date was a date, I could be alone, single, and enjoy so many things on my own in life. I had not an intention to make the singledom the status quo per se, but neither was I attempting to cling to the first thing with a pulse that walked through the door ticking a few boxes. It was to be a "no" until he was really a "fuck yes!". I had learned from what had been done already, tried and tested. Or so I tell myself. So here we are, a year on into the current relationship. I ponder the milestone, reality check myself against the ideal prescribed while trying not to lose a footing in the here-and-now, and try to find a measured, grounded way to determine progress. Or slap myself into sobriety lest I have gone down yet another deviation from the road desired. To those brave, patient, and committed to have read this far, I ask you: From your own experience, constructively speaking, what do you make of this? Can you relate? Have you had any similar experiences, be they successes or failures? What have you learned? If you were successful, what made the chemistry work, and what did that ultimately feel like for you? If at times you compromised, in what areas were the compromises fair and reasonable ones you both could live with? Did you find to get the dynamic you wanted in a relationship? And to get the right person to "materialise", did it take a process that was almost magical in some way to manifest? If so, what did that process involve on a personal level? What state of mind and consciousness were you in? I know there are some absolute gems of people spinning about on this website in spite of all the sleaze and trolls, so I hope they will come forward. If a personal message or side conversation is better in light of sensitivities, feel free. (and to all the would-be lurking trolls: back under your bridge goddammit, don't you shit anywhere near this) Edited May 25, 2017 by ctglobal dynox, prud74, oRihS and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynox Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 I have little to say here, given my age and a couple of unsuccessful relationships. But since you crafted such a long and insightful post (and because you are one of the very few good guys here), I thought why not. Doubt you'll find it helpful though. i was in a relationship for about 2years. He is a great guy, funny, adorable and really sweet. We connected on so many levels, emotional, sexually and more or less intellectually. But like you, I started to question things about over a year into the relationship. I told a little break from him (not a relationship one), went to the states where we rarely chatted - we were both aware of this, but still committed. I needed the time to think about where the relationship is going and sort my feelings out. I came to realize that I was so dependent on him. My emotions were tied to his. I needed to text him, and when I don't I get a little anxious. Jealousy was a constant thing. I realized that there was something fundamentally wrong with this relationship, more specifically me. I used to describe that self as a love parasite. (Not exactly the best picture comes to mind) When I came back I tried to be more independent and relaxed. But it didn't work out because that's the relationship ship he wanted, to be adored and cared for - to know that I would do anything, no matter how I conceivable, for him. I was young. He was amazing. But that's not what I want. So I left. its after this relationship and a few more that I realized I needed time away from this mess. People say in a relationship is when two become one or that they are incomplete and need someone to complete them. I used to buy into all these, thinking it was sweet and romantic. Took a long while to develop an understanding that we aren't here in parts. We are here as a whole person. I don't want someone to complete me. I complete me. Whoever I end up with will merely add wonderful things to my life, but it doesn't make me any more complete than I could potentially be. Unlike you, I don't have a list and I try not to think too hard about this. This is human/emotional relationship, it's not a business one, feelings matter most of all. We can be fighting but when look or think about you, I don't feel hate. Anger sure. But love is always there. Love doesn't drop one moment and suddenly leave without warning - the tree growing from a seed analogy works especially well here. So I don't buy into the counter argument that centers around "what if suddenly you look at him one day and feel nothing"... how is that even possible (I'll admit maybe I'm too naive and have yet (god forbid) to experienced this). If I feel my relationship a little wonky, I do something to fix it. And if it doesn't get better, we talk about it. We are into this together. Communication plays a huge part, as it should. Anyways I don't wanna go on and on. Unlike you, I don't have a list of qualities in mind. Well a short one. Independent, confident and respectful. There isn't a right way to be in a relationship or even to think about one. Every couple is unique so only you will know what to do from here on. i would like to add that I'm not currently in a relationship so only god knows if this philosophy works, but I'm happy with this for now. Of course it changes as I get exposed to new ideas but the general principles remain a constant. I don't ever need to be in a relationship, I will never someone other than myself to make me ME. sorry I tend to digress so much I think I made this whole comment about me. Tend to do that something, I apologize if you read the whole thing. Not one of my better days for writing cohesively. Regardless, hope that helps in whatever way (bad or good). All the best with your relationship and I do hope things work out. It's always sad to see a relationship end. oh, one more thing. Drama is find from time to time. But not every couple days... that's actually one of the things about that relationship I didn't particularly like - fight about something stupid then have sex and be all lovey and forgiving. He just needed me to prove I loved him. How fucked up is that. I could go on and on about trust in a relationship but I wouldn't want to bore you. Have a great weekend ahead:) prud74, Andrewww, tedjay and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctglobal Posted May 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, dynox said: I have little to say here, given my age and a couple of unsuccessful relationships. But since you crafted such a long and insightful post (and because you are one of the very few good guys here), I thought why not. Doubt you'll find it helpful though. Thanks mate, I like your comments and insights as well--- age is but a number. You find dumb shit old people who act far younger than your years and experience, so don't discount yourself ;0) 1 hour ago, dynox said: i was in a relationship for about 2years. He is a great guy, funny, adorable and really sweet. We connected on so many levels, emotional, sexually and more or less intellectually. But like you, I started to question things about over a year into the relationship. I told a little break from him (not a relationship one), went to the states where we rarely chatted - we were both aware of this, but still committed. I needed the time to think about where the relationship is going and sort my feelings out. I came to realize that I was so dependent on him. My emotions were tied to his. I needed to text him, and when I don't I get a little anxious. Jealousy was a constant thing. I realized that there was something fundamentally wrong with this relationship, more specifically me. I used to describe that self as a love parasite. (Not exactly the best picture comes to mind) When I came back I tried to be more independent and relaxed. But it didn't work out because that's the relationship ship he wanted, to be adored and cared for - to know that I would do anything, no matter how I conceivable, for him. I was young. He was amazing. But that's not what I want. So I left. Wise move. Sounded kinda like he wanted a pawn or a toy, not a bf? 1 hour ago, dynox said: its after this relationship and a few more that I realized I needed time away from this mess. Ya, I tried that before too. Can help add perspective, but I wonder what else tbh! haha. A bit dry that stretch : / 1 hour ago, dynox said: People say in a relationship is when two become one or that they are incomplete and need someone to complete them. I used to buy into all these, thinking it was sweet and romantic. Took a long while to develop an understanding that we aren't here in parts. We are here as a whole person. I don't want someone to complete me. I complete me. Whoever I end up with will merely add wonderful things to my life, but it doesn't make me any more complete than I could potentially be. Unlike you, I don't have a list and I try not to think too hard about this. This is human/emotional relationship, it's not a business one, feelings matter most of all. We can be fighting but when look or think about you, I don't feel hate. Anger sure. But love is always there. Love doesn't drop one moment and suddenly leave without warning - the tree growing from a seed analogy works especially well here. So I don't buy into the counter argument that centers around "what if suddenly you look at him one day and feel nothing"... how is that even possible (I'll admit maybe I'm too naive and have yet (god forbid) to experienced this). If I feel my relationship a little wonky, I do something to fix it. And if it doesn't get better, we talk about it. We are into this together. Communication plays a huge part, as it should. Yes. The comms piece is critical, and ever so tricky cos there are so many ways of doing it and each person (myself included) has their own preferred style. Ah humans... 1 hour ago, dynox said: Anyways I don't wanna go on and on. Unlike you, I don't have a list of qualities in mind. Well a short one. Independent, confident and respectful. There isn't a right way to be in a relationship or even to think about one. Every couple is unique so only you will know what to do from here on. Yeah I will figure it out sooner or later. Like I said, things now are generally OK lah, nothing to be really distraught over. If anything I am questioning my ideals and trying to find a good balance or temperance with the reality of life and being human. What I *don't* want to do is SETTLE for the sake of it, or feel myself gravitating towards that blindly as the defacto option (life is what happens while you are busy making other plans as they say). 1 hour ago, dynox said: i would like to add that I'm not currently in a relationship so only god knows if this philosophy works, but I'm happy with this for now. Of course it changes as I get exposed to new ideas but the general principles remain a constant. I don't ever need to be in a relationship, I will never someone other than myself to make me ME. sorry I tend to digress so much I think I made this whole comment about me. Tend to do that something, I apologize if you read the whole thing. Not one of my better days for writing cohesively. Regardless, hope that helps in whatever way (bad or good). All the best with your relationship and I do hope things work out. It's always sad to see a relationship end. oh, one more thing. Drama is find from time to time. The drama thing: I have a no drama policy. There is genuine emotion and I think that stands out from people who are merely muddying the waters with whatever they watched on a TV series. Anyone caught busting that one and treating me as their soap opera is kerbside post haste. 1 hour ago, dynox said: But not every couple days... that's actually one of the things about that relationship I didn't particularly like - fight about something stupid then have sex and be all lovey and forgiving. He just needed me to prove I loved him. How fucked up is that. I could go on and on about trust in a relationship but I wouldn't want to bore you. Have a great weekend ahead:) ... yeah, that's plain old childish re the "proving it" part. Gosh. Thanks for your post! dynox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyn Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Gonna leave a comment here so I can get back with my story and experiences. Not in the right place to type something lengthy as I'm on a short getaway Quote Tech Reviewer on Rhyn Reviews and YouTube: https://youtube.com/rhynreviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rhyn Posted May 29, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 I'm back! Finally in the mood to write something. For some background knowledge, I've been in a monogamous relationship for over 4 years now. We went to Lanzarote, Spain for our fourth year anniversary celebration that was longggg overdue since February. Studies held us back so we decided to postpone the trip till our studies were cleared. Personally speaking, the ideal relationship (to me) consists of a few, crucial building blocks. Trust This is a no-brainer. Both of us are committed to each other for a really long time. We have to trust each other in almost everything (except the many times I tried to trust him while crossing the streets of England; might be involved in an accident if I kept listening). Sometimes, you have to give them a benefit of doubt. People have to realise that it is impossible for one person to comprehend and understand a person 100%. Reality check: it's usually about 50-70% confidence. And even then, when you have opened yourself up to that person, it is not improbable that problems might occur because of differences. Lack of trust from any side of the party creates an environment of suspicion. It's unnecessary negative baggage, one that you burden not just yourself, but your partner too. Imagine them going out for dinner with friends and you're having mild anxiety at home wondering if he's flirting behind your back. Let them be who they are. If you do find out that something about what they do is bothering you, talk about it. Leading me to my next point... Communication Another vital building block as per above. Proper and clear communication does result in a better understanding of the person. More specifically, honest communication. That is to say, you have to be honest with your loved one. Honesty is closely tied to trust and communication; think of it like the middle stone of a bridge, where both ends are trust and communication. Without it, the bridge will crumble. Even if have a fight, talk it out. Talk about everything. Talking about everything breaks down communication barriers and both of you get more and more comfortable by understanding the limits to which both of you can handle. Freedom To be in a relationship is not a 1/2+1/2=2, as you've said above. As Aristotle once said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I'll repurpose this quote though. Human beings are more than parts. We are dynamic creatures roaming the Earth, ruled by social, political and other constrains. These rulings mould and shape us into who we are today. Two or more people coming together for a union creates something bigger than just 1+1. Because while the 1 indicates a person, but it does not show the countless possibilities that the 1 person is capable of. Add that 1 with another amazing 1, and the relationship becomes another dynamic adventure, both as an individual and a combined entity. With all that said, both people in the relationship have to come to terms with the constrains upon them: family and friends are the obvious ones. Let your partner have that freedom of going out with who they want and talk to who they want. You will know if your partner is worthy of your love just by what they choose to do with the permission you give them. As we (sort of) celebrated our 4th anniversary (dinosaur years for gay relationships!), I always make it (subconsciously) a point to ask him the same questions I asked before, even though the answer might remain the same. Things like "What would you be doing if you've never met me?" or "Will we ever break apart?" are some of the things I've asked and I won't ever stop asking. The questions keep the relationship alive and going by peering into the possibilities, discussing the circumstances and gaining knowledge, ensuring that we mutually understand the difficulties ahead of us! baritone, tedjay, melvinlam90 and 2 others 5 Quote Tech Reviewer on Rhyn Reviews and YouTube: https://youtube.com/rhynreviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctglobal Posted May 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 8 hours ago, Rhyn said: I'm back! Finally in the mood to write something. For some background knowledge, I've been in a monogamous relationship for over 4 years now. We went to Lanzarote, Spain for our fourth year anniversary celebration that was longggg overdue since February. Studies held us back so we decided to postpone the trip till our studies were cleared. Personally speaking, the ideal relationship (to me) consists of a few, crucial building blocks. Trust This is a no-brainer. Both of us are committed to each other for a really long time. We have to trust each other in almost everything (except the many times I tried to trust him while crossing the streets of England; might be involved in an accident if I kept listening). Sometimes, you have to give them a benefit of doubt. People have to realise that it is impossible for one person to comprehend and understand a person 100%. Reality check: it's usually about 50-70% confidence. And even then, when you have opened yourself up to that person, it is not improbable that problems might occur because of differences. Lack of trust from any side of the party creates an environment of suspicion. It's unnecessary negative baggage, one that you burden not just yourself, but your partner too. Imagine them going out for dinner with friends and you're having mild anxiety at home wondering if he's flirting behind your back. Let them be who they are. If you do find out that something about what they do is bothering you, talk about it. Leading me to my next point... Communication Another vital building block as per above. Proper and clear communication does result in a better understanding of the person. More specifically, honest communication. That is to say, you have to be honest with your loved one. Honesty is closely tied to trust and communication; think of it like the middle stone of a bridge, where both ends are trust and communication. Without it, the bridge will crumble. Even if have a fight, talk it out. Talk about everything. Talking about everything breaks down communication barriers and both of you get more and more comfortable by understanding the limits to which both of you can handle. Freedom To be in a relationship is not a 1/2+1/2=2, as you've said above. As Aristotle once said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I'll repurpose this quote though. Human beings are more than parts. We are dynamic creatures roaming the Earth, ruled by social, political and other constrains. These rulings mould and shape us into who we are today. Two or more people coming together for a union creates something bigger than just 1+1. Because while the 1 indicates a person, but it does not show the countless possibilities that the 1 person is capable of. Add that 1 with another amazing 1, and the relationship becomes another dynamic adventure, both as an individual and a combined entity. With all that said, both people in the relationship have to come to terms with the constrains upon them: family and friends are the obvious ones. Let your partner have that freedom of going out with who they want and talk to who they want. You will know if your partner is worthy of your love just by what they choose to do with the permission you give them. As we (sort of) celebrated our 4th anniversary (dinosaur years for gay relationships!), I always make it (subconsciously) a point to ask him the same questions I asked before, even though the answer might remain the same. Things like "What would you be doing if you've never met me?" or "Will we ever break apart?" are some of the things I've asked and I won't ever stop asking. The questions keep the relationship alive and going by peering into the possibilities, discussing the circumstances and gaining knowledge, ensuring that we mutually understand the difficulties ahead of us! Thanks, really well articulated and your point about trust and freedom especially. How long will you be in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyn Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 I'm here till 2018/19 possibly (: Quote Tech Reviewer on Rhyn Reviews and YouTube: https://youtube.com/rhynreviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctglobal Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, Rhyn said: I'm here till 2018/19 possibly (: cool, pls do stay safe there. seems a bit of a wild place. incidentally, going back to your earlier post and in the case of your current relationship, what has helped you both build trust? i mean, it is easy to say "you should have trust" but how does that happen in experience? i know part of it is in clear communication. what else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyn Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 It's fine actually! But the night is pretty wild and people are less inhibited than Singapore. Even more so when they are fueled with alcohol! Lots of communication. Like, honest, clear-cut communication. Talking to your partner builds the trust aspect as well. Trust is a very nebulous, intangible growth in relationship. It's not like a grade card that tells you out of 100%, how trustworthy a person is. So if you're at the start of dating, it's communicating with the person. Once you're official, it's getting to know each other. Trust should be built indirectly; knowing more about the person essentially means that the other party is willing to trust you on things they say. It's not like I tell my friends everything I tell my beloved. Kinda like giving them access to information about yourself you don't usually tell others. Quote Tech Reviewer on Rhyn Reviews and YouTube: https://youtube.com/rhynreviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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