Should I Declare I am Gay during NS ? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

[curious_boi]

Lying is a chargeable offence in the SAF

[NielKlient]

Lying is a chargeable offence in the SAF

 

It is chargeable, but then again you cant prove a person's sexual orientation.

[gstc82]

Lying is a chargeable offence in the SAF

Lying? Since when did saf ask you to tick if you are str8 gay or whatever you are sexuallt attracted to?

[wildboysg]

how do they know you are lying?

[Guest Hunkie]

These days declared liao still need do Ns. Not as if the govt totally exempt u. Maybe non combat vocation like medic or driver or storemen depending on your fitness level.

Anyway they will want interview your parents to double check if you really gay.

[Soran]

Why bother to declare? Not as if SAF needs to know who i am having sex with anywa

 

As for erections in showers, trust me when i say u will be so damn tired from training and whatnot, it'll be a farking miracle if u can get erect

[Guest Hunkie]

Hi all.

I have declared 302 during my national service & i ORDed recently. I have read a few post that regarding about whether declaring 302 will affect your future career or not. Theres a post mentioned that all this "302" info will only stays with the SAF & the medical officer.

So i wasnt sure, i m wondering, does it stops or affect me from working in any sector or agency etc industry?

It will be great for anyone who are already working, declared 302 in ns to share your thoughts and experience. Thank you

If you work in the govt sector, yes it will affect your future when you are in more senior positions. Gay people have lower security clearance. Politics definitely out.

If non govt sectors, then not much impact.

[SeannyShortcake]

I see do you know anyone who declared?

 

I declared lol.

 

Silly me.

[alien]

These days declared liao still need do Ns. Not as if the govt totally exempt u. Maybe non combat vocation like medic or driver or storemen depending on your fitness level.

Anyway they will want interview your parents to double check if you really gay.

U mean if ur parents tell saf u r gay, then it means u r gay liao? I still dun understand how saf determine tht u r telling the truth when u declare?

[gstc82]

These days declared liao still need do Ns. Not as if the govt totally exempt u. Maybe non combat vocation like medic or driver or storemen depending on your fitness level.

Anyway they will want interview your parents to double check if you really gay.

thats pure discrimination. Gays must not be exempted from combat due to one's sexual orientation.

[alien]

I believe saf exempted gays from combat not they doubt the physical strength tht gays have. Cos if u posted to combat, confirmed u must stay-in and saf maybe scare u cannot control urself with so many guys sleeping with u, n also share the same shower rm. Or saf maybe tot gays all behave like sissy, so also not suitable to be in combat?!

[Guest Hunkie]

U mean if ur parents tell saf u r gay, then it means u r gay liao? I still dun understand how saf determine tht u r telling the truth when u declare?

Yeah..how else they verify yr sexual orientation? Based on yr confession? Too many young guys "keng" these days.

SAF will ask yr parent(s) a series of questions to determine if u are really gay or just malingering.

[Guest Hunkie]

I believe saf exempted gays from combat not they doubt the physical strength tht gays have. Cos if u posted to combat, confirmed u must stay-in and saf maybe scare u cannot control urself with so many guys sleeping with u, n also share the same shower rm. Or saf maybe tot gays all behave like sissy, so also not suitable to be in combat?!

So far I dunno any 302 in combat vocations. Maybe there are ..but rare. When u attain 302 status, its a down grade of a Pes status. Eg. Pes A to B, B to C.

Another thing is the non stay in clause. Not scare u go molest others la...it's scare others come molest u. Haha.

Also maybe Saf kinda viewed homosexuality as a form of mental disorder. Not really fit to hold a weapon. But then a few declared guys & me were assigned as riflemen during our reservists.

[alien]

U declare 302 n yet u posted to become rifleman!?

Anyway, so funny saf view homo as mental disorder!

[iamziz]

Someone boasted on Facebook about malingering to get out of NS, SAF says it’s investigating

 

http://mothership.sg/2014/06/someone-boasted-on-facebook-about-malingering-to-get-out-of-ns-saf-says-its-investigating/

[Zen95]

I know there is a similar thread about declaring 302 in NS, but it has closed. I hope to get some advise from people who have declared. 

 

Here's my situation: 

I have been posted to a combat unit for about 3 months. Finding the training tough, I decided to declare 302. I have spoken to counsellor about declaring 302 through SAF hotline and they have helped me to arrange to meet a counsellor. As they are not trained in this field, they are not able to provide me answers at this moment. 

 

I hope to get some useful opinion from people who have experienced it, at least it can help others who wish to declare too. 

 

Here I go...

1) Will this declaration affects my university placing?

2) Will this declaration affects my job prospects, especially in private sector?

3) Is it possible not to let my family members informed about this? 

4) How does "P- tag" affects me?

5) What is likely the PES status? 

 

Thanks in advance for the contribution to this topic

[Guest strawberry]

草莓一族

[raind]

Why are you asking all these questions after declaring? Your intention of declaring is "because you find training tough". Isn't this motivation wrong in the first place? Anyway, much as I disagree with it, i do respect your decision to do so. To your queries, the following are my understanding:

 

(1) no, won't affect your uni placement

(2) no, won't affect your job placement in the private sector, but may not be so if within the public sector esp if the jobs are in sensitive and classified areas 

(3) last I know, it's procedural to info family members, not sure if this has changed

(4) does not affect per se. 

(5) pes status unlikely change, most of the straight-acting guys I know who declared continued to serve in combat roles as medics, signallers, etc. service persons who are effeminate may however be deployed in HQ positions that do not require them to stay in and their pes status changed to pes C. 

 

hope this helps.

[abang]

It was the early 80s when I declared 302 status.

I did it because I wanted to fend of all the "indecent" proposals, i.e. oral jobs, hand jobs and anal sex.

 

Yes as a stay-in personnel, I was very vulnerable for sexual favours.

Instead of "hiding" my tracks, I came out openly and guess what, all the suitors were afraid to be associated with me.

They do not want others to know of their gay tenancies - asking another man to satisfy their sexual needs.

After my medical board, I was "forbidden" to be in camp after 7 pm.

I continued my short 1-year affair with a company 2nd in charge without others' knowledge.

 

Combat training may be tough but the the act avoid tough training is NOT an excuse/reason to declare your status.

You are merely finding the easy way out. It reflects lowly on your self confidence/esteem. 

 

Your parents will be informed and they will undergo some form of "Introduction" to your sexual preference (as if they don't know yet).

My mom went and Dr Ang YG (he is now an opposition party member) spoke with her.

She is one hell of a mother/woman when she told him. "That's all? I knew he was gay since the age of 7. I knew all about it and his boyfriends too."   Super cool, right? I'm talking about a 50s auntie in the 80s.. 

 

I believe you have not been medical boarded since you have declared 302 to your medical officer, 

Be prepared of the consequences with your family members..

Not every mom is like mine so gung-ho and understanding.

 

[Cube3]

3 hours ago, abang said:

It was the early 80s when I declared 302 status.

I did it because I wanted to fend of all the "indecent" proposals, i.e. oral jobs, hand jobs and anal sex.

 

Yes as a stay-in personnel, I was very vulnerable for sexual favours.

Instead of "hiding" my tracks, I came out openly and guess what, all the suitors were afraid to be associated with me.

They do not want others to know of their gay tenancies - asking another man to satisfy their sexual needs.

After my medical board, I was "forbidden" to be in camp after 7 pm.

I continued my short 1-year affair with a company 2nd in charge without others' knowledge.

 

Combat training may be tough but the the act avoid tough training is NOT an excuse/reason to declare your status.

You are merely finding the easy way out. It reflects lowly on your self confidence/esteem. 

 

Your parents will be informed and they will undergo some form of "Introduction" to your sexual preference (as if they don't know yet).

My mom went and Dr Ang YG (he is now an opposition party member) spoke with her.

She is one hell of a mother/woman when she told him. "That's all? I knew he was gay since the age of 7. I knew all about it and his boyfriends too."   Super cool, right? I'm talking about a 50s auntie in the 80s.. 

 

I believe you have not been medical boarded since you have declared 302 to your medical officer, 

Be prepared of the consequences with your family members..

Not every mom is like mine so gung-ho and understanding.

 

 

Wow, Abang, you have an incredible mother!

[ZealousZeno]

8 hours ago, raind said:

To your queries, the following are my understanding:

 

(1) no, won't affect your uni placement

(2) no, won't affect your job placement in the private sector, but may not be so if within the public sector esp if the jobs are in sensitive and classified areas (Mostly affects the Govt. sector)

(3) last I know, it's procedural to info family members, not sure if this has changed (Well according to the directive its a must)

(4) does not affect per se. (Its more of how others affect you actually, those who work with you in your posting, there are some who are down right homophobic which is a prob)

 

(5) pes status unlikely change, most of the straight-acting guys I know who declared continued to serve in combat roles as medics, signallers, etc. service persons who are effeminate may however be deployed in HQ positions that do not require them to stay in and their pes status changed to pes C. (It depends on what kind of 302 you are, they have classification for it, "Straight but gay', "sissy and gay", etc..., usually does extreme cases [very effeminate & affects the surrounding/people he works with] will be highest pes C else pes E in non-classified unit.

 

 

 

Work at HQ here can vouch for most of these are accurate to my understanding of 302 management in SAF. Technically, I would advice not to declare, there are no real benefits and gains (cause of the unknown probability of facing homophobic people) Just do your NS "As a Man" & not whether "Am i Gay or Not"

Edited May 27, 2016 by ZealousZeno
additional info ~

[Magicerife]

Cannot take tough training so you decided to declare, hoping for an easy way out of NS

 

declare already, now you're worried about possible repercussions so you're asking for advices anonymously

 

since you're such a quitter practising escapism, running away from responsibilities and consequences, consider relinquishing the citizenship and go for greener pastures. 

 

You can be gay but that doesn't make you lesser of a man who can't do his part for the motherland

[ZealousZeno]

19 minutes ago, Magicerife said:

Cannot take tough training so you decided to declare, hoping for an easy way out of NS

 

declare already, now you're worried about possible repercussions so you're asking for advices anonymously

 

since you're such a quitter practising escapism, running away from responsibilities and consequences, consider relinquishing the citizenship and go for greener pastures. 

 

You can be gay but that doesn't make you lesser of a man who can't do his part for the motherland

 

Haha rather hash ahh XD, but on do agree on the point that AJ or not we should serve NS as best we could no matter how tough/ridiculous it is. Chao Geng is not the way to go.

[Brocklm]

Come on, its less than 2 years. Last time ours is 2.5 years. Man up. Do it like a man! Declare under 302, u can kiss all other job possibilities goodbye because when times are bad and jobs are difficult to find. Govt bodies are the one hiring. So dun stupidly break your rice bowl. To be honest working for government, u have april performance bonus, july mid year bonus, 13 month, minimal increment almost every year and all other benefits they offer. Salaries go outside most companies cannot offer u. Unless u are really capable, i won't stop u. But if u can't even take NS, i dun think u can take job stress outside!

[Guest 无言。]

So many "man" here think they retained their bragging rights from completing NS (and i wonder which unit - music and dance?) and now can't wait to fully utilise that to put down others who decided to declare. Wah piang, these type sibeh jialat leh! 

[Magicerife]

It's his choice if he wanna geng his way outta NS. It's his choice if he wanna declare 302. Just don't behave like a wimp for every action taken to second think and regret. He has alr gotten a case logged by calling the hotline. What's he gonna tell the counsellor subsequently if he decides against the original decision? "Oh I was just curious about the whole procedure only"? It's done the moment he decided to call. Whatever the repercussions are, if there are, he just has to await it. Unless his whole point of asking was to get mentally prepared for what's to come. Sorry I would have been more sympathetic if you had posted to ask for a recommended course of action instead of sobbing over spilled milk 

[raind]

Hi all,

 

Let's not be harsh on TS. He's asking for advice and let's just do that. 

 

I think we've all been through a stage in our live where we make decisions that, now, on hindsight, we'd not do it if we were to re-live that moment again. But that's part of our growing up and it makes us more mature. 

 

So let's just help advice him. 

 

 

Peace

[Garyl]

On 4/21/2006 at 4:40 PM, huno said:

Hi, I'm new so HELLO!

Wanna ask if anyone here ever confessed to being gay before or during NS to the medical officer? If you did what happened to you ah?

My advice is not to do it unless you want to mess up your life and explain to all the people who will question you after you have declared for all matters that you have to state your NS service records- employment, school.... etc. 

[SGRainbow]

Thinking about declaring? Hear from our panel of speakers who have undergone National Service their experiences declaring (or not) during their 2 years of service.

Is it really important to declare? What might be some of the pros and cons?

 

Register now: http://tinyurl.com/fall-in-2 and it is FREE!

 

20th August 2016, 2:30pm.

[Guest now you]

1 hour ago, SGRainbow said:

Thinking about declaring? Hear from our panel of speakers who have undergone National Service their experiences declaring (or not) during their 2 years of service.

Is it really important to declare? What might be some of the pros and cons?

 

Register now: http://tinyurl.com/fall-in-2 and it is FREE!

 

20th August 2016, 2:30pm.

 

Make no difference, so don't declare. Many years ago, they were put in support vocation but not now.

[upshot]

Why would you want to declare anything really if not for some good official reason where it make sense the public needs to know? You are not going to get anything special for doing so. What will it do for society? Harm or good to know apart from consensus. I say the same for everything else.. you want to declare like how much you make or how much in your bank? Or that you have this or that illness? Or you have this or that disabilities?

You are proud you are gay, I get it.

 

But would it matter to me or anyone else to know that and anything else you care to declare? We are still not the more exemplary nation when it comes to discrimination of gay or even other politically or socially matters. So why anyone want to even declare that on the record? You feel doing it for some personal reason or make some political or social justice need to gain acceptance and getting more to join you to make sweeping changes in Singapore?

 

If so you just have to accept that doing so have consequences which if you are not happy to encounter or deal with that limelight attention later, then best you rethink why to do it. There is being proud and being proud in so many ways. To be seen, heard and accepted. But you don't need to use it to get right into people face. Then that is also obnoxious as those on the other side of the fence.

 

But hey if you feel the need to shout it out to the world for some reason.. more power to you.

Edited August 14, 2016 by upshot
typo and clarity

[Guest Another Lokies wannabe]

Declare if you just want attention.

[cw1989]

I know many people have pretty strong views on this, but personally I think the practical part of it trumps. In the sense that making the official 302 declaration cuts off many possibilities in the force - like going to command school (not to say of course that going to command school is the be-all-and-end-all of NS). 

 

I chose not to make the declaration, ended up in OCS, and met a few good and coincidentially gay friends (haha). We used to muse over how we would never have met each other if we had signed 302.

[Guest zzzz]

If u want to go or got in OCS dont declare!

[Guest Melvin Ng]

This is crap. You don't need to declare if the government and people don't accept gays

[Guest guest]

Got tax rebate bo

[Guest Zandan23]

I don’t think it is necessary. When I was applying for a job, and the hiring managed asked me if I’m gay, I immediately turned down the offer.

[lovehandle]

so direct??????????? oh dear....I assumed it is a retail esp fashion related job or advertising/media????????

or are you very "loud" and obvious?

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:41 AM, Guest Zandan23 said:

I don’t think it is necessary. When I was applying for a job, and the hiring managed asked me if I’m gay, I immediately turned down the offer.

 

[HarrizZhafran]

hi, i wanna ask.. let's say someone has been straight acting so far in camp but decides to sound off that he is bi or gay to his superiors. what will happen to him then? 

[Ben Ben Ben]

1 hour ago, HarrizZhafran said:

hi, i wanna ask.. let's say someone has been straight acting so far in camp but decides to sound off that he is bi or gay to his superiors. what will happen to him then? 

Don’t say unless they rape you

say for what?

declare 302? 

[HarrizZhafran]

2 hours ago, Ben Ben Ben said:

Don’t say unless they rape you

say for what?

declare 302? 

yeah.. ive a friend who really can't stand his vocation. coincidentally, he's truly bi. and has been uncomfortable around there cuz he gets turned on easily..

[HarrizZhafran]

so my friend has sounded off to his PC that he thinks he's not straight.. she said that he can get charged for withholding this info at cmpb before enlisting. is it true? i mean, not like he sexually harass anyone what.. 

[go-geek]

32 minutes ago, HarrizZhafran said:

so my friend has sounded off to his PC that he thinks he's not straight.. she said that he can get charged for withholding this info at cmpb before enlisting. is it true? i mean, not like he sexually harass anyone what.. 

Not sure if it is but the question is withholding the information not about sexually harassing anyone. An extreme example would be, not saying you have a criminal history when asked then confessed after. It's not like you stolen from them but still withheld info

[Guest Guest]

51 minutes ago, HarrizZhafran said:

so my friend has sounded off to his PC that he thinks he's not straight.. she said that he can get charged for withholding this info at cmpb before enlisting. is it true? i mean, not like he sexually harass anyone what.. 

Easy lah, just say he didn’t know he was gay until after enlistment when he was surrounded by naked guys.

[HarrizZhafran]

5 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Easy lah, just say he didn’t know he was gay until after enlistment when he was surrounded by naked guys.

so he can say he was curious upon enlistment but didn't voice out cuz he thought he was just admiring other guys as a straight guy.. but he got turned on seeing cute guys in camp?

[HarrizZhafran]

25 minutes ago, go-geek said:

Not sure if it is but the question is withholding the information not about sexually harassing anyone. An extreme example would be, not saying you have a criminal history when asked then confessed after. It's not like you stolen from them but still withheld info

what can the penalty be?

[Guest Flip flop]

3 minutes ago, HarrizZhafran said:

so he can say he was curious upon enlistment but didn't voice out cuz he thought he was just admiring other guys as a straight guy.. but he got turned on seeing cute guys in camp?

 

Or he just got turned by her ugly cb face.

[HarrizZhafran]

1 minute ago, Guest Flip flop said:

 

Or he just got turned by her ugly cb face.

who's the her?

[Guest Flip flop]

9 hours ago, HarrizZhafran said:

who's the her?

 

His PC, poster said is 'she' mah.

[HarrizZhafran]

ohhhhh... he finds it impossible not to fantasise about having fun with the privates and commanders. he's scared someone may guess he's not straight.. he gets hardons often in camp. he even gets turned on around his friends.