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Pope Francis says that homosexuality is a fashion


Steve5380

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This is a strange declaration by the Pope in a recent interview where he talked about gays in the clergy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/02/gay-people-should-not-join-catholic-clergy-pope-francis-says 

 

No room for ‘fashionable’ homosexuality and gay priests should be ‘impeccably responsible’ or leave

 

"Pope Francis is “concerned” about what he describes as the “serious issue” of homosexuality, saying in an interview published on Saturday that being gay is a “fashion” to which the clergy is susceptible.

“The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates,” the pontiff said with regards to would-be priests.

“In our societies it even seems that homosexuality is fashionable and that mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the church,” he says in the book The Strength of a Vocation, released in Italy on Saturday.

“This is something I am concerned about, because perhaps at one time it did not receive much attention,” he says in the book, a transcript of an interview that will be released in 10 languages.

 

A decree on training for Roman Catholic priests in 2016 stressed the obligation of sexual abstinence, as well as barring gay men and those who support “gay culture” from holy orders.

The barring of people who present homosexual tendencies was first stipulated by the Catholic church in 2005.

“It can happen that at the time perhaps they didn’t exhibit [that tendency], but later on it comes out,” Francis said.

“In consecrated and priestly life, there’s no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life.

“The ministry or the consecrated life is not his place.”

Gay clergy were urged to be “impeccably responsible” in a warning over bad behaviour that was notable for its silence on heterosexual clergy who break their vow of celibacy."

 

I have always been a supporter of Francis and his progressive ideology.  But to call homosexuality a "fashion" is kind of weird. Why isn't heterosexuality a "fashion" too?

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steve
He is trying to say it is fashionable to wear certain clothing, or wear your homosexuality

but the commoners and the believers(public) may not be comfy with such a priest

If u  wish to be a priest, remove that fashionable clothing, just remove it and 'dress"/behave normal (dont have to be high fashion in a religious setting) , just dress like commoners
He is trying to say that 

He knew there must be certain behaviours that caused some consequences

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well I do agree with Pope Francis. Btw, @Steve5380, I don't think he called homosexuality fashionable. He said that it is the mentality of the people.

 

In some Western societies, homosexuality is well celebrated (not just accepted), that some gay individuals (who have not suffered the hardship of being homosexual) will think it is fashionable, that being homosexual is more superior than heterosexual. That mentality is not equalism. 

 

Pope can be accepting towards his followers, and treat all of them equally regardless of their sexuality. But when it comes to holy leaders, I think he has all the rights to bar those who support gay culture and think that homosexuality is fashionable. Gay culture thingy is more or less associated with sexual activities, are very loud, which does not match with the image of the church. I am very sure gay priests who break celibacy will attract much more attention than straight ones.

 

Btw, I'm a free-thinker.

Edited by Crispy96
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Homosexuality has been always around last few thousands years in recorded history. 

 

Fashionable?

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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Guest GAYbrielle Bonheur Chanel

Religion is also a fashion. Right now, it is unfashionable to be christian, especially catholic.

 

It is far more fashionable to be gay than catholic these days.

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8 hours ago, Crispy96 said:

well I do agree with Pope Francis. Btw, @Steve5380, I don't think he called homosexuality fashionable. He said that it is the mentality of the people.

 

In some Western societies, homosexuality is well celebrated (not just accepted), that some gay individuals (who have not suffered the hardship of being homosexual) will think it is fashionable, that being homosexual is more superior than heterosexual. That mentality is not equalism. 

 

Pope can be accepting towards his followers, and treat all of them equally regardless of their sexuality. But when it comes to holy leaders, I think he has all the rights to bar those who support gay culture and think that homosexuality is fashionable. Gay culture thingy is more or less associated with sexual activities, are very loud, which does not match with the image of the church. I am very sure gay priests who break celibacy will attract much more attention than straight ones.

 

Btw, I'm a free-thinker.

 

I am somewhat in agreement.  What Francis said was in the context of priesthood.  He complained that priests find homosexuality fashionable because the secular society finds this too.  And, of course, there are homosexuals in the priesthood like there are everywhere.  But what he said is still not intelligent.

 

His words are still discriminatory and offensive to homosexuals, because he singled us out.  What has been FASHIONABLE throughout the existence of the church is the Catholic marriage.  It is VIRTUOUS to be married by the church,  it is SINFUL to be married outside of the church.  As if some words by a priest  have the power to transform the relationship between two humans.  Today it is becoming more fashionable to NOT be married by the church.  I am a Catholic, but I had a civil marriage without letting the church in.  And today nobody sees much fault with this. 

 

Francis does not seem to recognize that if there are proportionally more gays in the priesthood than in the general population, the fault of this lies in the rules of his church.  Being prohibited from marrying,  priesthood was always a lesser hardship to gays, who could not marry anyway.  Also we gays are by nature more caring, and priesthood gives opportunities to care for other people.  

 

The solution for his problem is "simple" (LOL...): remove the rule of celibacy,  legitimize gays and their marriage in the priesthood, and remove the idiotic belief that sex was created exclusively for procreation.  Then the church will have happier straight priests married to their women and happier gay priests married to their men,  all of them having plenty of fulfilling sex with their spouses and not being tempted so much by the youngsters around them.    

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9 hours ago, jlone said:

Once a person is old, he is less wise n can talk nonsense!

 

Many guys and gals when young are so ignorant and cocky that they don't recognize the higher wisdom of older people.

And so they write nonsense.

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If you go to western societies like the US or the UK you'll see this "fashionable homosexuality/transsexuality" in full flow especially amongst the teens and young adults there. Many of them going through puberty or early adulthood struggles, many with underlying mental issues or issues in life generally speaking. And all of them somehow subscribing wholesale to the view that "oh, I'll just declare myself as LGBT now because I feel like it and because it'll provide a nice distraction from everything else going on in my life. Oh, and because I follow so many LGBT YouTube personalities or celebrities and I think they're cool."

 

In terms of the church, the pope is entirely correct. Christians should show love and compassion to everyone regardless of who they are, true. But then again Christianity also has standards for its representatives and priests and" shepherds of the flock", and one of the standards is that they shouldn't even be sexually active in the first place, hence making this whole thing about out and out LGBT priests moot. Either they dedicate their life purpose to christ and centre their lives and identities around serving Him, or they should leave their church capacities as priests and just be a follower of Christ themselves. 

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Guest Bollywood

Not surprise, some of the younger Hollywood actors are identifying themselves as gender or sexual fluid these days. Probably part of marketing to help widen their fanbase.

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2 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Homosexuality is a fashion? He means people can choose to be gay or not to be gay?

 

Your question is the correct one to dispel this dumb idea of fashion.

 

8 hours ago, West93 said:

If you go to western societies like the US or the UK you'll see this "fashionable homosexuality/transsexuality" in full flow especially amongst the teens and young adults there. Many of them going through puberty or early adulthood struggles, many with underlying mental issues or issues in life generally speaking. And all of them somehow subscribing wholesale to the view that "oh, I'll just declare myself as LGBT now because I feel like it and because it'll provide a nice distraction from everything else going on in my life. Oh, and because I follow so many LGBT YouTube personalities or celebrities and I think they're cool."

 

In terms of the church, the pope is entirely correct. Christians should show love and compassion to everyone regardless of who they are, true. But then again Christianity also has standards for its representatives and priests and" shepherds of the flock", and one of the standards is that they shouldn't even be sexually active in the first place, hence making this whole thing about out and out LGBT priests moot. Either they dedicate their life purpose to christ and centre their lives and identities around serving Him, or they should leave their church capacities as priests and just be a follower of Christ themselves. 

 

When you were passing through puberty you sat down to decide to be straight or gay depending on how entertaining each option is?  Were you turned on by girls but then thought  "oh, maybe it's fun to do it with boys too"?

When I passed through puberty I never cared for girls but the boys turned me on.  I don't identify with any of your theories.

 

The Catholic standard is that we should not have absolutely any sex unless it is for procreation with our spouse of legitimate Catholic marriage.  And Catholic priests should not have sex AT ALL!.   What is there in the professional service of Christ and his principles that conflicts with having sex?  Why should the work of a priest suffer because he has sex, assuming that this sex is perfectly legal and not abusive?  You should know that the reason Catholic priests must be celibate has nothing to do with dogma.  It was an economic and organizational issue many centuries ago having to do with marriage, and now it persists for tradition.  And the way the issue was resolved was to force priests to be single.  The "celibate" only came in because Catholic singles should not have any sex, therefore have to be celibate!  IMAGINE!  The whole human race should be absolutely celibate unless they are eventually married by the Church and try to have children! 

 

A true, sensible, positive religion should recognize that procreation is not the EXCLUSIVE function of sex.  Modern psychology recognizes many other positive functions of sex, (and many traumas from prohibiting it).  We are seeing the threat of serious environmental problems caused by our overpopulation,  caused by excessive procreation.  Society should seriously start realizing that homosexuality favors our race. The welcoming of responsible sex,  straight or gay,  should benefit everyone, priest or lay.  And research should continue strongly to develop the most effective contraceptives.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Guezt
On 12/2/2018 at 11:08 AM, Steve5380 said:

This is a strange declaration by the Pope in a recent interview where he talked about gays in the clergy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/02/gay-people-should-not-join-catholic-clergy-pope-francis-says 

 

No room for ‘fashionable’ homosexuality and gay priests should be ‘impeccably responsible’ or leave

 

"Pope Francis is “concerned” about what he describes as the “serious issue” of homosexuality, saying in an interview published on Saturday that being gay is a “fashion” to which the clergy is susceptible.

“The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates,” the pontiff said with regards to would-be priests.

“In our societies it even seems that homosexuality is fashionable and that mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the church,” he says in the book The Strength of a Vocation, released in Italy on Saturday.

“This is something I am concerned about, because perhaps at one time it did not receive much attention,” he says in the book, a transcript of an interview that will be released in 10 languages.

 

A decree on training for Roman Catholic priests in 2016 stressed the obligation of sexual abstinence, as well as barring gay men and those who support “gay culture” from holy orders.

The barring of people who present homosexual tendencies was first stipulated by the Catholic church in 2005.

“It can happen that at the time perhaps they didn’t exhibit [that tendency], but later on it comes out,” Francis said.

“In consecrated and priestly life, there’s no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life.

“The ministry or the consecrated life is not his place.”

Gay clergy were urged to be “impeccably responsible” in a warning over bad behaviour that was notable for its silence on heterosexual clergy who break their vow of celibacy."

 

I have always been a supporter of Francis and his progressive ideology.  But to call homosexuality a "fashion" is kind of weird. Why isn't heterosexuality a "fashion" too?

 

Blasphemy.

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22 minutes ago, Guest Guezt said:

 

Blasphemy.

 

Blasphemy is an interesting word, that names a concept.

 

The online dictionary defines it as

- Blasphemy: "the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things;  profane talk".  This calls for some more definitions:

- Sacrilege: "violation or misuse of what is regarded as sacred".

- Sacred: "connected with God or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration"

- Profane: "that what is not sacred or biblical; secular rather than religious".

 

From all the above definitions, it is clear that "blasphemy" is an obsolete characterization of an act, no more meaningful than "non religious", since:

- For the non believer, the whole universe is "profane",  since "biblical" is simply the name of some books, and religious is synonymous with fantasy. 

- For the non believer, "sacred" is the "empty set" since there is no proven God to venerate.

- For the non believer, "sacrilege" is also non existent since "sacred" cannot be misused simply because it does not exist.

 

As an American, I have the right to claim freedom of religion, which is in our Constitution.  This means not only freedom to practice any religion but, also implicit, freedom from recognizing and being bound by any religion.  Of course, religious people deserve respect like anyone else, and this is covered by normal civility norms. But while the religious people deserve respect,  their beliefs are their business and should not deserve any special consideration.  If I like, I can define my own beliefs:

 

I love chocolate. Why not make it the materialization of a God,  the God of Chocolate?  My worship of chocolate ice cream,  chocolate chip cookies, chocolate mousse, a "tres leches" chocolate cake,  Lindt and Ghirardelly bars of dark chocolate,  hot chocolate drink,  all this is SACRED for me. Any put down of chocolate is a SACRILEGE.   Any criticism of chocolate or its products, any claim that it is junk that makes one fat, that it is for spoiled people, is then .... A BLASPHEMY. 

 

NOTE:  I am not sure if this is what you had in mind when you wrote "Blasphemy".   If not,  then you have to be more precise in your posts and not make them of one word!

 

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4 hours ago, doncoin said:

If homosexuality is a fashion, then it is like the little black dress. Always in style. 😎

 

giphy.gif

 

Good for her! She has been drinking on my screen for hours without having to refill the cup. 

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4 hours ago, doncoin said:

If homosexuality is a fashion, then it is like the little black dress. Always in style. 😎

 

giphy.gif

Didn't Givenchy deliberately add the neck lace to cover her neck line, so as to be fashionably beautiful?

King of Mars, among others,  didn't follow the fashion to convert.

It is a fashion to "be delivered" from Apocalypse, then "be atoned" of Original Sins through this Pope as "Medium".

Reminded of "The Very Ancients were born knowing who their mothers were but had no concept of fathers" in Lieh-Tzu and the "women' in the original "family" names, including that of Confucius.

Thanks.

On 12/2/2018 at 12:40 PM, Vometra said:

Well if homosexuality is a fashion, then surely it has managed to stay fashionable for a far longer time than his fairy tale.

 

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Let's face it. The Catholic Church has had its knickers in a twist over sex and sexuality almost since the start of Christianity. It took centuries for its doctrines to be set down on paper and then only after convocations of old and allegedly wise men. But until the second millennium, the Church paid little attention to sex. At least six Popes that we know of had male partners. Many others were married and had children, including St. Peter. Julius II who reigned from 1503-1513 (best known for commissioning Michelangelo to design the Sistine Chapel frescos) is known to have had affairs with men and women, siring three children after he had become a bishop. There ws a movement started to dethrone him because he was a "sodomite"! This was almost 400 years after another of these large convocations of elderly men had determined that priests had to be celibate.

 

Soon after Julius, sex was again a subject of Papal decree. The decrepit, rigidly austere Paul IV who was tormented by rheumatism was elected Pope at the age of 79. This relic took offence to all the dicks he saw on statues that adorned the Vatican. So he ordered them all lopped off! Dicks were out and fig leaves were in. This Papal doctrine was then formalised yet again by a convocation of elderly men at the Council of Trent in 1563.

 

And this was around the time that mariners and traders set sail from Europe ro conquer new worlds. In their wake sailed the missionaries whose job was to conquer souls for Christ. In many Asian countries, nudity and homosexuality were not uncommon at that time. As the missionaries carried out their work over the centuries, Asians took to heart their admonitions. It is surely more than ridiculous that whereas Asian peoples still continue adhering to many of these ancient 16th century values, countries in the west are now far more open about sex and homosexuality. Except the Catholic Church, it seems.

 

Edited by InBangkok
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鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

 

看穿不说穿

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Guest Hmmm

I find greek orthodox Church more interesting than the Roman Catholic. The latter seems to enjoy young boys companion, which I don't seems to quite understand what those represent in the church.   

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14 minutes ago, fab said:

 

I think the present Pope's stance of the sexual abuse of minors serving as altar boys is now well known. Unlike his two predecessors who swept it all under the carpet, Francis has tried to tackle the matter head on. A month after that Independent article was printed, this was printed in many world newspapers.

 

https://apnews.com/0f8380a98bd76c839c7f056088039727

 

Quote

Pope Francis abolished the use of the Vatican’s highest level of secrecy in clergy sexual abuse cases Tuesday, responding to mounting criticism that the rule of “pontifical secrecy” has been used to protect pedophiles, silence victims and prevent police from investigating crimes . . . The carnival of obscurity is over,” declared Juan Carlos Cruz, a prominent Chilean survivor of clergy abuse and advocate for victims.

 

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Guest Can't please everyone

I think there is nothing wrong with what the Pope said. I would think that if the majority of an executive committee of a major LGBT organisation were heterosexual allies or even if it were just the CEO, there would be extremists LGBT folks who would decry that they cannot accurately represent LGBT cause and hence, should be removed. Too many extremists these days trying to create problems everywhere, both on the left and the right.

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19 hours ago, fab said:

 

From the quoted article:

 

"The case concerns the opaque world of the St Pius X youth seminary, located inside a palazzo just a few steps from the residence of Pope Francis. The seminary houses about a dozen boys aged 11 to 18, who serve as altar boys at papal masses."

 

Maybe if you ask his opinion,  ask him also if the St Pius X youth seminary also had a sauna, a steam room, a dark maze with plenty of glory holes and individual rooms.

Ask him also why the papal masses needed altar BOYS and could not be helped by older seminarians or, even better, some senior Cardinals. 

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19 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

And this was around the time that mariners and traders set sail from Europe ro conquer new worlds. In their wake sailed the missionaries whose job was to conquer souls for Christ. In many Asian countries, nudity and homosexuality were not uncommon at that time. As the missionaries carried out their work over the centuries, Asians took to heart their admonitions. It is surely more than ridiculous that whereas Asian peoples still continue adhering to many of these ancient 16th century values, countries in the west are now far more open about sex and homosexuality. Except the Catholic Church, it seems.

 

 

And it is even more ridiculous that Asian peoples now fall for the slick Pastors and Preachers and Men of God from the non denominational Christian churches like the City Harvest Church, who preach the gospel of prosperity and condemn the sin of homosexuality.

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