gay having kids

[Guest nooffspring]

anybody who wanted to have kids but being gay has stopped u? how to have offspring without being straight and marriage. has this affected any plu here?

[doncoin]

Same way infertile straight couples have children. They find a surrogate or they adopt. So what's stopping you? 

[Guest Sad]

30 minutes ago, doncoin said:

Same way infertile straight couples have children. They find a surrogate or they adopt. So what's stopping you? 

Not OP here. Just my thoughts. 

 

Cost is definitely one of the factors. It's expensive enough to raise a kid these days. If you go for surrogacy it gets even scarier, not to mention all the legal red tape you need to worry about. 

 

Another factor is probably lack of a partner with a similar mindset. People here, sadly, don't even think about settling down. Not to mention get married, and raise kids. 

 

Even if you manage to conquer the above two challenges the welfare of the child is also something to consider. Singapore hasn't even repealed 377A. We also don't recognize same-sex marriages. Now you wanna talk about a same-sex couple raising children? Will the kid get bullied for having 2 dads/moms? 

[bluefish20008]

5 hours ago, doncoin said:

Same way infertile straight couples have children. They find a surrogate or they adopt. So what's stopping you? 

Does Singapore allow surrogacy for male adopters? Iirc the law favors surrogate mother to keep the child. 

[Guest Laugh]

Haha most gay men cant even take care of themselves and their own relationships, kids is out of the question. Not legal in singapore anyway.

[upshot]

Have Children for the RIGHT REASON and not just because you think or your parent think you SHOULD. Know that if you want them, you are giving 20 years of your life to take care or not just you but someone else. It is not a fashion or a fad that you do. Worst, you think you should have kids to feel MORE NORMAL about being a couple or married couple. It should be more about how you want to do this to benefit not just your insecurity and expectation that SOMEONE is going to take care of you in the near future as you get older. Responsible parents I know don't do this for insecurity reasons and almost all of them did not expect their kids to be their aged caretaker or money.

The old days where we evolve has change from where a family survive by being a farmer or other manual labor work thus as they age and they stay too far from other folks, then making children and have a strong wife that can give him strong offspring was the norm. In the last few decades, lifestyle and human development has changed. Las time women stay home to look after the home while the male go out to hunt and war to get more resources. Now women are your competitors for the same jobs. Modernization has also made many other human changes to how we live and die. Think out of the box over all things we consider "normal" and just because others do it or many do it, it must also be right for you.

Having kids is not that hard naturally or adoption but how sure are you of committing 20 years of your life to another human being. Thru sickness and in health. Even if you love kids.. there is still a lot of hardwork ahead of you plus even being the best parent, there is no guarantee they will be great sons and daughters to you. (read some of the stuff guys write in the forum and the public news of kiasu people ill treating others) Stop trying to look for normalcy by mimicking str8 or for selfish reason for having kids.

Edited May 21, 2017 by upshot

[upshot]

2 hours ago, bluefish20008 said:

Does Singapore allow surrogacy for male adopters? Iirc the law favors surrogate mother to keep the child. 

 

There are studies already done that show a male female couple that stay and having kids has a way higher rate of having successful kids. Single parent homes has a higher failure rate with children upbringing, crime and studies. There are already studies done on this. There is a dynamism at play where a strong influence of both female and male role will help a kid to  grow with more balances. For gay/les couples it might be new but there are already studies to show it is closer to single parent situation too. This is a correlation between the human dynamism at play which is vital for child development as each phase of a child's life, mother and father play very distinct parts to cultivate how a kid grows up in phases thru out their growing formative years.

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by upshot

[Guest Kids lover]

8 hours ago, Guest nooffspring said:

anybody who wanted to have kids but being gay has stopped u? how to have offspring without being straight and marriage. has this affected any plu here?

 

I love kids . I am preparing to have twins baby through surrogacy in USA. This surrogacy might cost 120,000 USD all inclusive . Though is expensive, but raising kids is invaluable experience and Children, A bundle of joy! 

[Guest Please]

Gay men who can take care of kids? Yet to meet one. Most still act like children and have the mentality of a child. Probably one gay man in a billion of the entire gay population. They lack the maternal instincts of a mother. 

[doncoin]

When you raise a child or children, the number 1 thing you want to create is stability, regardless of gay or straight. 

 

@upshot I am not sure where you got your sources regrading kids growing up or raised by gay/les couples being closer to a single parent. I feel that the studies are not considering the fact that there are many children who were raised by single parent who grew up to be successful, they may be in the minority, but they exist. The same can be said of kids who grew up with both parents (mom and dad) and turned out to be criminals. The common factor about kids achieving less than their potential usually comes down to stability in the environment when they are growing up. Not having both parents, straight, gay or lesbian. 

 

" A 2010 study by Stanford researcher Michael Rosenfeld used census data to examine the school advancement of 3,500 children with same-sex parents, finding no significant differences between households headed by same-sex and opposite-sex parents when controlling for family background. Another study drew on nationally representative, longitudinal data using a sampling pool of over 20,000 children, of which 158 lived in a same-sex parent household. Controlling for family disruptions, those children showed no significant differences from their peers in school outcomes."

 

There are quite a number of research papers consolidated by Columbia University> http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

 

The traditional gender roles played by mom and dad has evolved, compared to our parents' generation and they apply to today's children. Today, many have both parents working, mom is not stuck in the kitchen all day. In some cases, mom may be making more money than dad. Dads are now going to the market, doing laundry, things that are traditionally the wife's job. It does not matter who is doing what. Mom can be chopping wood and out hunting while dad cooks and clean, the important thing is to ensure a stable, loving and safe environment for the child. 

 

For those who can afford, surrogacy is a wonderful option. I always think it would be perfect to surrogate one and adopt one. There are enough orphans in the world who if you can bring just one home and be part of your family, is a wonderful thing. 

[CKW]

In S'pore, singles are allowed to adopt. The only exception is that single men are not allowed to adopt female children.

 

Also, during the adoption process, the Ministry for Social and Family Development will do a pretty thorough home study to assess your suitability. This will include multiple home visits, interviews and background checks.

 

If it is discovered that you have a same-sex partner, they will not allow the adoption, for the legal reasons mentioned above by Guest Sad.

[CKW]

Adopting a child in Singapore: 9 things to note

[topLTR_93]

I want kids because of 2 (though admittedly tenuous) reasons 
1. Kids strengthen a union. I will concur that this is not definite because if so there won't be so many children with divorced parents around. But having said that, it is much easier - almost whimsically easy - for a couple without children to separate since they don't have to deal with legal proceedings and all the other cumbersome issues that would arise if they have children. I guess there is some truth to the saying that kids complete a family. 
2. Kids are one of the best shields against old age. Again, this is not definite since it has become a trend that grown children are abandoning their parents and stuff. But aiyah my greatest fear is to die alone in my pool of shit and pee without anybody knowing lah hor. I think with proper upbringing a child would not abandon his/her parents lah. Haha. I don't know. 

But like what many people have said - alot of gay Singaporean males are not into the whole traditional family concept. Instead, what I see - at least for local gay men in my age range - are the endless chase for the partner with the perfect bod and non-stop orgies -.-
So this fuck and dump culture is the biggest hurdle, followed by that ridiculous 377A. 

[mate69]

I do not want kids. Now or in the future. Not my thing. 

[doncoin]

I think kids are great to have if you can give them the love and stability to grow. 

[upshot]

3 hours ago, doncoin said:

When you raise a child or children, the number 1 thing you want to create is stability, regardless of gay or straight. 

 

@upshot I am not sure where you got your sources regrading kids growing up or raised by gay/les couples being closer to a single parent. I feel that the studies are not considering the fact that there are many children who were raised by single parent who grew up to be successful, they may be in the minority, but they exist. The same can be said of kids who grew up with both parents (mom and dad) and turned out to be criminals. The common factor about kids achieving less than their potential usually comes down to stability in the environment when they are growing up. Not having both parents, straight, gay or lesbian. 

 

" A 2010 study by Stanford researcher Michael Rosenfeld used census data to examine the school advancement of 3,500 children with same-sex parents, finding no significant differences between households headed by same-sex and opposite-sex parents when controlling for family background. Another study drew on nationally representative, longitudinal data using a sampling pool of over 20,000 children, of which 158 lived in a same-sex parent household. Controlling for family disruptions, those children showed no significant differences from their peers in school outcomes."

 

There are quite a number of research papers consolidated by Columbia University> http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

 

The traditional gender roles played by mom and dad has evolved, compared to our parents' generation and they apply to today's children. Today, many have both parents working, mom is not stuck in the kitchen all day. In some cases, mom may be making more money than dad. Dads are now going to the market, doing laundry, things that are traditionally the wife's job. It does not matter who is doing what. Mom can be chopping wood and out hunting while dad cooks and clean, the important thing is to ensure a stable, loving and safe environment for the child. 

 

For those who can afford, surrogacy is a wonderful option. I always think it would be perfect to surrogate one and adopt one. There are enough orphans in the world who if you can bring just one home and be part of your family, is a wonderful thing. 

 

I can't recall where I read and seen review on this but I will try to find them again as it was last year. There are in recently years many reports even done by certain universities and private reviews that have skew or use left wing agenda to again as the push has been one about getting more funding and pass policies to favor certain group of people who are already getting too much help but are looking for more subsidies and this has distorted and also compound the way societies are facing some of the problem that is happening in the west. It is the same as to while divorce favor the female over males and even if a women is at fault, the males are penalized or given very light slap on the wrist. The fact that a lot of this finding favor single parent because females are using it as a means to get the male to give more money thru court system and also to have more court regulation and lawyer fight for women to govt fund the other half in this way, this is especially so for the black community who turn to victim hood as a mean to not work. This also support an entirely industry of law and courts to make money. Like many other things that look good on the top, over time as the fact comes out you see things are force to change. This tipping point about the single parent is about coming full circle. Singapore is not there yet but given time and if we take the same social left wing thinking, this can happen here when there is an over dependence by one group to force changes that is more about self preservation but using the kids as an excuse among other things. As I said... gays and lesbian taking on children is STILL relatively new the whole over and we have not decades of findings to show much but the earlier indications are showing it is not working as well as it is claim when consensus are skew and bias. Do you know that domestic abuse has shown in the US, lesbian domestic violent is high. Again, I need to find the many articles and youtube I watch last year when I took an active interest to follow up on news as an interest point.

Many things in life now we see even in science where information is use to manipulate and not entirely about helping. Take eggs, how many time science for decade have debated on it being good or bad for us. Same does for sugar. Even climate change went thru a number of phase.. all for what? Profit, Getting Funding and Greed. Whose to really say what we read even from places of higher learning is even real.  Have you seen what is becoming at some of the highest place of learning when it come to freedom of speech and other left wing extreme views they are holding? Even Berkeley or Harvard for example.

But beyond all that lah... as a person who still need to be sure if we wants to be a father or mother, we need to be sure of what our intention are for doing so. Statistic might tell you good or bad reasons for doing it or not  but your own life is your own story and statistic you have to live with once you go down that road for 20 years or longer if that person is not able to help him or herself.

[doncoin]

There was a documentary, 13th,  which I saw recently about the US prison system, and how in light of Black Lives Matter etc. shed a light on US's uneasy history with race etc. Long story short, basically, the prison system in the US is privatized. So the companies running the prisons have incentive to get as many people locked up as possible, and charged the bill to the state. Hence, it led to generations of single black families, the vicious cycle of poverty, and becoming dependent on state welfare. I have to admit, I find it unbelievable that something like this is happening, but it is. I digress. 

 

From my perspective, regardless of nuclear families, or single families, or families with same-sex parents etc. the important thing is when you have a child or children, is to love them with all the love you can give. 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by doncoin