Why Is My Dick Curve? Curved Dick aka Peyronie's Disease (Compiled)

[danvin]

Hi Curved

I had the same problem as you before. Had the surgery done at the then Toa Payoh Hospital some 10 maybe 12 years ago. The surgery was done by Dr Peter Lim, the top urologist in SG at the time. He is now a Chief Consultant Urologist to many public hospitals now. He is available at CGH now. Appointment to see him is about 6 weeks now. Feel free to get a second opinion from him. FYI, i did not get any reduction in the size or length of my penis. The cost is affordable too about SG$2500 and is deductible from your medisave. Medisave limit is $300 a day. So if ur warded for three days,you can deduct $900 from ur total hospital bill. I opted for the day surgery n left on the same day evening. The surgery is called 'Nestbits operation'. Pls check with ur urologist n if need be, go for a second opinion ok. Initial period after surgery, u will feel a slight discomfort while having sex if ur a top, but after sometime u will be ok n it will be just as normal after maybe four or five times of penetration. Hope this information will help you.

[eric6363]

Sure - would like to hook up.

Can PM me?

[reflection]

Thanks Danvin for your information as I learned something today :thumb: However, on further searching on medical journal, I found the right spelling to be Nesbit procedure and not Nestbits.

[danvin]

Thanks Danvin for your information as I learned something today :thumb: However, on further searching on medical journal, I found the right spelling to be Nesbit procedure and not Nestbits.

Thanks Reflection for correcting my spelling error.

[Kickback]

Hi, just wanna ask..

Recently I found out that my cock bent to the left a lot whenever I erect..

Taking the front as 12 o'clock, my cock is always directed at 10 o'clock..

Is that really normal?

And when it is at flaccid stage..

It is still slanted to the left a little..

It's really pretty obvious when I watch in the mirror..

Can someone pleas lighten me up?

[GachiMuchi]

Hahaha. mine is at 1 O'Cock.

Are you a perfectionist or what? Does your cock needs to point at 12 o'cock? There are many people out there who can't even erect let alone point at 10 o'cock. So just be happy with what you have. Yours is not even a problem. It's all in your mind.

[Jaycob]

Hi, just wanna ask..

Recently I found out that my cock bent to the left a lot whenever I erect..

Taking the front as 12 o'clock, my cock is always directed at 10 o'clock..

Is that really normal?

And when it is at flaccid stage..

It is still slanted to the left a little..

It's really pretty obvious when I watch in the mirror..

Can someone pleas lighten me up?

Hmmm, maybe yours is too HUNG? so will tilt to the sides? If you got time to check out some gay video postings, its actually quite normal for those well endowed to have 'bent' or 'slanted' packages when fully erect.

If you're really bothered, consult with sex therapist ba

[Tachyons]

Not all cocks have to point upright when erect ... Slightly curved cock is normal variation ... It is only a problem if it hinders sexual intercourse ( between male and female for reasons of procreation ) ... Then a specialist opinion would be needed to see if corrective surgery is necessary ...

[Guest heading]

mine is like tat. it doesn't hinder anything

[ixmog]

i think both Kickback and Gachi Muchi's cock are normal and nothing to worry about.

Next, can we have a sample photos on 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock erected cock position for further reference ?

It will be a great help to educate the forum's blowers. A picture tells a thousand story :thumb:

Edited October 2, 2009 by ixmog

[Tight Ass]

My Tight ass is made for a punctual cock, it has to be 12noon or 12am. You just cannot be too early or too late, I won't accept that for an excuse:yuk:

[acidtongue]

Hi, just wanna ask..

Recently I found out that my cock bent to the left a lot whenever I erect..

Taking the front as 12 o'clock, my cock is always directed at 10 o'clock..

Is that really normal?

And when it is at flaccid stage..

It is still slanted to the left a little..

It's really pretty obvious when I watch in the mirror..

Can someone pleas lighten me up?

i'm at the same timing as you LOL

curvature doesnt affect my performance tho. if btms do take issue with my cock, its often the issue with size....

[Kickback]

i'm at the same timing as you LOL

curvature doesnt affect my performance tho. if btms do take issue with my cock, its often the issue with size....

then i bet it's too big heh? (;

[Kickback]

i think both Kickback and Gachi Muchi's cock are normal and nothing to worry about.

Next, can we have a sample photos on 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock erected cock position for further reference ?

It will be a great help to educate the forum's blowers. A picture tells a thousand story :thumb:

haha! i would love to! sure do, perhaps another or so.

[acidtongue]

then i bet it's too big heh? (;

yeah, but actually nothing should be too big for a gd btm... his only worry should be that the cock is too small..

[Guest THICKSK]

My cock also curved to left at 10 o'clock. it's normal. So long it's not too curved. the curved maybe due to the skin. mine is UC and and big so when erect will curved to one side. so far i got people rejecting because my cock is too thick or big. so may pose a problem. mine is 13.5cm in circumference UC 16cm in curved length . So boy, don't worry , it's normal...

[Kickback]

My cock also curved to left at 10 o'clock. it's normal. So long it's not too curved. the curved maybe due to the skin. mine is UC and and big so when erect will curved to one side. so far i got people rejecting because my cock is too thick or big. so may pose a problem. mine is 13.5cm in circumference UC 16cm in curved length . So boy, don't worry , it's normal...

thanks!

[stuart1990]

oh, i've read about this somewhere before. Its something to do with how every guys' testicle is of a different size. so if your left ball is bigger, i think your penis automatically swings to the right or something to balance it out. correct me if i'm wrong=)

[Guest Butted]

So many rocket cock scientists.

What about those curve extremely inward or outward ?? How to pokepoke ??

[Guest beesting]

What is peyronies (kw) disease? Is the percentage of men getting peyronies more than 3% of the population, as reported by medical industry? Are peyronies and arthritis (kw) diseases similar to heavy plaque calcification (kw) formations in the body? Are peyronies and arthritis true diseases or ´old age´ pain zones?

According to medical industry there is no known cure to peyronies, also known as ´bent penile.´ There are lots of websites on the subject penile repair, mostly linked to medical doctors pitching their preferred medical medicines or surgical recommendations. Several active bulletin boards on the internet are pitching their favorite doctors and services to the general public. All have given the Bee venom treatment plans a bad report.

There is much of evidence about hard plaque calcification, regarding Arthritis suffers and their long term relief programs via honey bee venom injections. There are thousands of these Bee Venom clinics worldwide.

Since the immune system is basically responsible for placing heavy plaque calcification throughout the body, including the plating of teeth. It is the same immune system that puts heavy plaque calcification deposits on the male penile appendage (kw).

Once the immune system identifies any area a damaged zone, like hands and feet or other skeleton joints of the body, heavy plaque calcification deposits are imminent to keep the body in a state of well being! In other words, when the body receives impacts, internal bruising of sorts, the same immune system begins immediate repairs via patching up within the damaged zone with heavy plaque calcification deposits which I call, ´c-patches.´

With more than 100,000 Honey Bee Venom Self Treatment Therapists (kw) in USA alone; worldwide the numbers must be huge. By searching on the internet many of these clinics called, Bee Venom Treatment (BVT) c enters, can be found!

Unfortunately like medical doctors discussed above, Honey Bee Venom Self Treatment Therapists do charge fees. The cheapest bee venom clinic is in China, charging $18 per session (Kang Tai Bee Clinic.

For arthritis suffers the number of required sessions to achieve some long-term pain relief is expensive. This is generally true for entire BVT industry; fees can be well over $100 each.

Even so, peyronies suffers must start somewhere, even learn how to copy the BVT application process as do insulin suffers.

If interested, go visit Honey Bee Venom Therapist in the local area and make an appointment to receive one bee sting at a time. The target area is top side of penis in the center, avoid any blood vessels. Do not sting anywhere else on the penis. The treatment is one injection in center on penis shaft –always topside-- for 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Do this once a week for 6 months. After 6 months increase dose to 2 beestings, but one bee sting into the two expansion chambers on each side of penis shaft. This can be applied 1 bee sting every 3 or 4 days per week, not at the same time. The bee stinger injection time can be increased from 5 seconds, 10 seconds and after a few months to 1 minute maximum. Please note, it takes 1,200 bee stings to be in critical condition.

Also, removing bee stingers is always by the sliding of one´s finger nail to flip it outward from the penis. Avoid pinching bee stinger with finger tips.

The treatment schedule is once a week. If done by a doctor or BVT specialist the bill could be rather expensive. With all said, it now becomes obvious one must become a Honey Bee Venom Self Treatment Therapist! If one takes time to learn this special skill it could become very useful to family members suffer from Arthritis of hands and feet.

What are the levels of peyronies in men? There are possibly 6 levels total, four are commonly claimed, and two less known. All are due to one´s immune system declaring the penis a damaged zone, followed by immediate c-patch deposition during deflation. And when the penis expansion chambers are activated one only needs to look downward to see the level of distortion.

1. Any major bend extended over the entire length of penile appendage or penis.

2. Any bend in area of penile head.

3. Bumps on the penile shaft called, heavy plaque deposits.

4. Ridges running length of penile shaft called, fibrous plaque deposits (kw)

5. Non-fibrous plaque that sheet entire penile shaft resulting in loss of hardness.

6. Heavy plaque calcification fractures, breaking penile shaft into several smaller links.

There are few useful documentation linking arthritis and peyronies diseases on the internet.

Simply speaking, the immune system has chosen to repair all internal bruising within the body with heavy plaque calcification deposits. These deposits are laminates of calcification deposits, to include plaque on teeth, fingers or toes joints.

The immune system seeks a state of well being when not protecting the body for infections of all kinds. When immune system is alerted it goes directly to the -- damaged zones, and it will place c-patches 24 hours a day.

THE GOOD NEWS

It takes the immune system many years of laying c-patches in any declared damage zone, and it takes Honey Bee Venom Therapy only a few months to remove all signs of c-patches put on by the immune system!

THE C-PATCH STORY

To keep it simple the immune system makes these c-patches out of excess calcium within body. The state of well being is always the goal of the immune system. Therefore easy repairs of internally bruised areas, due to work or play, receive c-patches. The laying down of these c-patches by the immune system is long-term and will not stop! In the case of Arthritis of hands and feet, distortions are both visible and painful. In the case of the penis, the same conditions c-patch placement s apply.

The process of injecting honey bee stingers releases venom into the selected body parts, in this case the penis. The venom travels across all connective tissues within the penis, so one bee sting is ample venom per application to begin with. The two bee sting method, after six months of one bee sting per week, is to remove all c-patches within the two side expansion chambers on penis shaft.

Basically, the bee venom coats everything in its path like all venoms do in nature. Since the penis is rather isolated extension of the total body mass, all the connective tissues within the penis get contaminated with bee venom—to including many of the laminates of c-patches within the penis structure.

The immune system is alerted and sent to the zone with bee venom contamination to make a determination of the toxin invasion. It immediately selects and removes all free moving bee venom toxins within all connective tissues of penis structure. But when it comes to removing the bee venom contaminated c-patches laminates-- the immune system cannot separate the venom for c-patches are not living tissues, only inorganic matter. Since many of the laminates are tinted or coated, all contaminated c-patches get removed by the immune system.

Eventually and after several months of bee sting injections the entire penis area gets devoid of c-patches all together. The results are visible and immediate relief from peyronies occurs.

Honey Bee Venom Treatment Therapists have known the link between bee venom injections and arthritis relief. Maybe this same group will take a more serious look at the above folk bee venom treatment plan and begin treatments plans of their own for peyronies suffers.

Sincerely,

beesting

[orochi98]

Unfortunately like medical doctors discussed above, Honey Bee Venom Self Treatment Therapists do charge fees. The cheapest bee venom clinic is in China, charging $18 per session (Kang Tai Bee Clinic.

Sincerely,

beesting

So to get a free treatment is to find a bee hive and stick your cock inside to let the bee sting u.

[Guest beesting]

So to get a free treatment is to find a bee hive and stick your cock inside to let the bee sting u.

[Guest beesting]

hello to suffers of peyronies,

I suspect the reply of entering penis in beehive is an informed response of a person that fears the beesting of .3mm of length. If he prefers the knife of the doctor, he will be witness to many times the beestinger length cutting into his penis structure, and a lot of bleeding too! Frankly speaking, a beesting a few times a month to keep the peyronies away is more intelligent thinking of the experienced BVT self therapist. I have sent 5 years with these disease, and the above has not experienced one minute of discomfort of any kind. When one has experience peyronies, he only needs to look down at the distrotions and pending grief of no further sexual relift of anykind!

Please disregard this person´s joking comments, and if you are victum of peyronies see you BVT therapist soonest.

sincerely,

beesting

[Guest GuestJ]

Please do tell me if there is any help to make it erected straight.

[T.H]

Is it something bad?

[XiaoTer]

is normal bahz... i have seen many ppl dicks also curve de... including mine :oops:

[GachiMuchi]

Your dick will become straight when you become straight. The more gay you are, the more curve it is.

Curve up means you are top, curve down means you are bottom. curve left or right means you are flexi.

Got it?

[tic-toc]

LOL !!!

[Guest justinash79]

Hmm, my dick is also curved too - to the left

Didnt think too much about it either

[untried]

wow, so i should be a flexi based on the analogy?

[XiaoTer]

wow, so i should be a flexi based on the analogy?

Thats a lame analogy pls

[charlie_sgp]

Then I'm 100% straight !!!

[Guest Ian lim]

Your dick will become straight when you become straight. The more gay you are, the more curve it is.

Curve up means you are top, curve down means you are bottom. curve left or right means you are flexi.

Got it?

huh?

really ah?

or u just kidding?

[Guest StraightTalk]

Then I'm 100% straight !!!

Most of us are lah! It's just that we have this thing about having a cock in our mouth! haha!

[dimpboy]

Please do tell me if there is any help to make it erected straight.

curve is sexy..

mine is one of them... :thumb:

[GachiMuchi]

There was a study by some Ang Mo who invented the sex toys for gay men.

It stats that when a guys cock is curve up, he will be able to hit the prostate of the his partner. Which is why many of their device they made are curved up.

If a guy cock is curve down, it won't be able to hit the prostate.

As for the curve left and right, by strategically positioning the bottom on his sides, his cock can hit the prostate, etc.

So they conclude that when ur cock is curve up, you will be a good top and if it's curve down, then u might as well forget that you will ever be a top, so they place them to be a bottom. As for those who's cock is left or right, they place them to be flexi as they won't be as good a top as the cock that is curve up. As for those who's cock is str8, it's good for fxxking women. So they place them as str8, which is why the term str8 comes from.

Believe it or not, up to you, anyway, mine is curve up and so I believe it. hehehe.

[Guest Guest]

curve up is nice but curve down or to the side is not nice.

saw some very curvy dicks before...a tad weird cos hard to suck and not nice to hold on hands.

[imchaser]

It stats that when a guys cock is curve up, he will be able to hit the prostate of the his partner. Which is why many of their device they made are curved up.

If a guy cock is curve down, it won't be able to hit the prostate.

So they conclude that when ur cock is curve up, you will be a good top and if it's curve down, then u might as well forget that you will ever be a top, so they place them to be a bottom.

Believe it or not, up to you, anyway, mine is curve up and so I believe it. hehehe.

Cock that curves down can hit the GSpot perfectly too if they do it doggie style. I always found this position more efficience than the usual missionary position by by those cock that curves up. If yours curves up than i wont suggest u do doggie style.

[darkflame]

So that explains why I find str8-pointing cocks so hot.

I always have a thing for straight men. :whistle:

[xxxpartyboixxx]

Your dick will become straight when you become straight. The more gay you are, the more curve it is.

Curve up means you are top, curve down means you are bottom. curve left or right means you are flexi.

Got it?

:lol: :lol: :lol: LOL LOL

Almost fell off my chair! OMG that's good Gachi...ughhh (wipes tears)

Hmmm...mine is str8, which explains why I am turned on by str8 pxxn more?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GachiMuchi]

:lol: :lol: :lol: LOL LOL

Almost fell off my chair! OMG that's good Gachi...ughhh (wipes tears)

Hmmm...mine is str8, which explains why I am turned on by str8 pxxn more?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You sure your cock not curved slightly but str8 pointing? Maybe it is curved so minute that you don't notice and you thought it is str8 pointing. Maybe because is almost str8 pointing, which is why you like str8 pxxn.

Here is an example str8 pointing cock. http://www.queerclick.com/asians/images/2011/01/thick_asian_cock_20110122_1.jpg

Here is an example of a curve up cock. http://www.queerclick.com/asians/images/2011/01/pink_cock_ring_1.jpg

[Torrent]

Gachi really has a point, it's not a hearsay or rumour. (I am a curve down btw :/)

[fab]

Curve up means you are top, curve down means you are bottom. curve left or right means you are flexi.

Curve up can tops/btms but curve down will very likely got to be btms as there will be problems in insertion.

Left/right, i donno.

Edited January 31, 2011 by fab

[Guest down]

i hate my downward cock, anyone else sharing the same feeling as me and wished that there is any fix?

[Guest why?]

i hate my downward cock, anyone else sharing the same feeling as me and wished that there is any fix?

why? my initial reaction is why should you dislike your body, or parts of it, especially that part that gives you and many other guys pleasure? celebrate your dick!!!

[imchaser]

i hate my downward cock, anyone else sharing the same feeling as me and wished that there is any fix?

Theres a fix. Go for a curvative surgery called nesbit procedure, what they do is cut off the tissue of outer curve of your cock so it will be the same length of your inner curve.

THe downside of it is u guess it right, your hard cock now will be 1 or 2 cm shorter, depending on how curve your inner side is.

Its a one day surgery, cost should be roughly abt 1200, if im not wrong.

So heres your other dilemma, curve, or straight but shorter. Your choice.

Sidenote: The information above might not be 100% correct, u might wanna check with a hot urologist to confirm abt the surgery.

[Guest swimBlue]

Theres a fix. Go for a curvative surgery called nesbit procedure, what they do is cut off the tissue of outer curve of your cock so it will be the same length of your inner curve.

THe downside of it is u guess it right, your hard cock now will be 1 or 2 cm shorter, depending on how curve your inner side is.

Its a one day surgery, cost should be roughly abt 1200, if im not wrong.

So heres your other dilemma, curve, or straight but shorter. Your choice.

Sidenote: The information above might not be 100% correct, u might wanna check with a hot urologist to confirm abt the surgery.

Wow..this is something new.

Guess, there's no perfect plan. U win some, u loose some.

[Guest Er]

Erm... I hate to be that guy, but there's also a lot of information everywhere that penis surgery doesn't always go as planned. There's been quite a number of cases where the person is unable to erect or infertility or other dysfunctional effects.

To be truthful I'll rather live with it then to risk something that would make me unable to erect for the rest of my life. You may say it'll never happen to me, but that's up to you. Personally I think my partners would prefer playing with an erect curved dick then an ever flaccid one.

[Guest beesting]

So to get a free treatment is to find a bee hive and stick your cock inside to let the bee sting u.

////////////////////////

Beesting venom linked to arthritis and peyronies freedom

3rd letter from beesting. I do not advise being close to beehives sir, let alone stick your penis somewhere it does not belong.

Arthritic disfigurement and peyronies dysfunction are the ´long-term´ result of the body´s immune system deposition of calcium-based plaque in selected parts of the body. The selection process by the immune system is based on keeping the body in a ´State of Well Being´ 24 hours a day. And that if any part of the body fails, will be labeled, ´ a damaged zone.´

If one wishes to visually touch this material, calcium-based plaque (c-patches), one only needs to floss in-between one´s teeth to capture it! It appears the immune system has labeled teeth and gums as a damaged zone, and continually coats them with laminates upon laminates of c-patches 24 hours a day.

My name is beesting (not my real name), and I had peyronies back in 1998 up to 2005 before starting useful treatments of honey bee venom. Yes, I did search the internet back then, many hundreds of man hours and more to no avail. What is most shocking to me today, about the same stuff is still online. Yap, even the penis stretcher continues to be marketed, which is absolutely amazing -- to even think a real certified doctor is selling them to earn a profit!

About 1995 I began working with beekeepers, and soon realized most wear only protective face gear. It took me many months before I would end up practicing beekeeping within full body gear on. I had pains in my hands then, and most of it went away through the years of small scale beekeeping. I stopped keeping bees a few years later. In October 2000, I went to the USA, and got confirmation I had peyronies. Shortly after I began more searches online, but failed to get any useful news, just lots of bulletin chat websites – mostly sponsored by victims of doctors practicing with their needles and implants and fees.

My hands were experiencing pain at times of labor, and I did discover the BVT therapy websites. I was excited about this, for I knew most beekeepers do not suffer from arthritis pains of the hands! I began the business of capturing, feeding, and placing honeybees onto selected parts of my hands, mainly finger joints and thumbs. I had shortly developed an over-dose test on my wrist. Here it is. Inject one bee stinger on center part of wrist, and wait 2 minutes before ´flipping´ out the bee-stinger with one´s finger nail. The wrist will swell up or get red with little soreness the next day. After a few days, repeat same test on top of wrist --but with two bee stingers. The wrist will swell up more and redness going upwards the arm, but next day your connective tissues—mainly muscles will be very sore. This would be considered an over dose in such a small damage zone, if the wrist was with arthritis. If you repeated the test again, but with three honeybee stingers, the pain would be present for several days. Therefore, only apply one honeybee stinger in any one selected part of the body. In other words, be it one finger, one wrist, one knew, one elbow, or penis, apply one bee stinger per 24 hour period, one exceptions!

After some practice with my fingers, on each hand, I became expert at bee stinger injecting. I could easily get the honey bee placed over the selected finger joint, and get a deep insertion. If I failed, and the beestinger went in – say sidewise (one can see the stinger pointing horizontally inside the skin surface), I would use my finger nail and slide it out quickly. This would be considered a failed injection of beestinger, and I would need to wait the next day to repeat the effort in the same finger joint. Remember, one bee sting per 24 hours time frame per selected damage zone of the body.

Well it did not take much of a genius to eventually picture in one´s mind -- a finger is much like a penis of sorts. And in my kitchen, standing alone, I finally captured my stressed penis in hand, and completed my first bee-sting injection. Of course, I jumped about the kitchen. Within 2 minutes, my penis had enough, so I removed bee stringer with my finger nail. Over the next few months, I had made enough mistakes, that I developed these rules.

1. Always apply bee-stinger in the top part of penis, never below shaft. The skin is the thinnest, and the bee-stinger can pass both skin barriers with ease.

2. Never more than one bee-sting application per day, even if you fail to get a deep injection. Failed stingers must be removed pronto, to reduce the immune systems reaction of entering body fluids into the penis.

3. Avoid all besting injections of the penis head, and any surface type blood veins. One honey bee injection of 15 seconds to 2 minutes is enough to treat the entire penis. It takes 25 minutes for a bee-stinger to inject all its venom. Therefore, 2 minutes is only a small portion. Today, I leave bee-stinger in penis 10 minutes or more. But only apply this treatment once a month, as maintenance plan to keep the immune system from adding too many laminates of c-patches throughout my penis.

4. Remember injection of bee stingers are to be targeted only in center, middle of penis shaft. If you wish to add more BVT Treatments to the prostate gland, then you need to inject bee-stingers at the base of the pelvis where the penis enters the body.

In conclusion, it is my best guess that bee venom, itself, coats the c-patches placed by the immune system. This painting of the laminates highlights the calcium based plaques in such a way, that the immune system cannot remove the toxins from the plaque laminates entirely. Therefore, the contaminated c-patches are completely removed by the immune system that put them there in the first place. The good news is that c-patches take a real long time to be built up to develop arthritis or peyronies dysfunction. Whereas, bee venom coats and penetrates all c-patches in its path, even deeply, requiring the immune system to remove both free-toxins and toxins attached to laminates of calcium based plaque!

Finally, bee venom moves across all connective tissues, where as doctor injections are chemicals with little movement, except via immune system physical removal of it. This is why one bee-sting injections travel throughout the body´s connective tissues: be it a finger, toe, wrist, elbow or penis. Whereas, doctor injections just sit there, right where they were injected into the body. The only real movement with doctors´ practice -- is your ability to be experimented on and you ability to pay their fees for practicing on you!

I have been free of peyronies since 2006. I took me 1 year to get rid of c-patches on my penis. The surprise is the difficulty to get complete freedom of arthritis of the fingers, now that’s going to take a lot more work then repair a simple penis extension of sorts.

p.s. By searching the internet with these keywords, beesting, beesting2,arthritis beesting, you should get to find most of my letters of the past 2 years or so. Please remember the beestinger is 1mm long and needles and knives of a doctor could be thousands of time bigger—which is easier to fear!

Sincerely,

Beesting

[Undies69]

When i am fully erected, my cock is pointing directly up to the sky, and not like those male pxxn stars (Be it gay or str), their cocks point out at 90 degress with respect to the ground...