Please Vote For A More Accepting Society

[MassageFreak]

Dear Forumers,

Thought you guys might be interested in the following poll conducted by Straits Times Online.

Some conservative Christians are up in arms calling upon their fellow brothers and sisters to vote against a more gay accepting society in Singapore citing: "We want Singapore to be founded on PROPER FAMILY VALUES". Currently, it seems like those conservative bigots are leading by a HUGE margin.

Please do you part and vote for yourself and for the better of all our future "gay brother and sisters". Do help spread this around to your pro-gay friends, families and even other gay forums to help vote for a more accepting society.

The following is the email as mentioned earlier calling for fellow Christians to vote against homosexuality at Straits Time Online:

Hi Folks,

The Straits Times Online has just created a snap-poll to solicit inputs from the public on whether Singapore should be more open to a homosexual society.

Do support with your views to shape Singapore 's future and forward this email to your other friends.

We want Singapore to be founded on PROPER FAMILY VALUES.

Click on below link, it only takes 10 seconds to register your views:

http://www.straitstimes.com/Take%2BOur%2BP...Our%2BPoll.html

Blessings

Please do your part for our community.

Cheers

[Guest Guest_gc0805]

gp of 8 friends were at my place this evening. all polled using this terminal. hope they r valid.

[AsianLion]

67% are still bigots..

[Guest artemov]

I voted 10 times liao, noticing each time that the total votes increase by 1

[jazz]

Let's just each click a few times more.

There are thousands of readers here... Each just do our part and click a few times... We should have more than 50% of the poll.

Every 100 votes, we will get an increase of only approx 1.3% - 1.4%

32% More Accepting

66% Less Accepting

01% Maintain Current Level of Acceptance

I was just wondering what happened to the remaining 1%

[Guest Guest]

Oh dear .... our MM Lee is now acting like ---- Moses showing the way and leading the Hebrew slaves out of Egypt and behind are the Egyptian soliders chasing. Hope he will (he can if he wants) open up the red sea ..... anyway, I clicked several times liao.

[jazz]

... ... ..... anyway, I clicked several times liao.

Me too... and now I managed to see that the "Less Accepting" has finally dropped by 1% to 65% :clap:

[Guest artemov]

Me too... and now I managed to see that the "Less Accepting" has finally dropped by 1% to 65% :clap:

Wow!!! That's good!!! Please do your part!!! Vote with your mouse!!!

Someone please post this in other gay forums as well.

[oralb]

been clicking for the past 5 minutes

pays to have a mouse that can do back page

notice the % of less acceptance drop from 65% to 63%!

[oralb]

% of less acceptance drop 59%

however i wonder how effective is the poll going to be.

will ST make an article on this?

[Guest Guest]

I guess a lot of people here will get repetitive strain injury (RSI) on their index fingers .... after repetitive clicking of mouse.

[TopChinese]

Voting in this poll will not change the way the 63% would think. We will always have conservative bigots in this country like this army major who wrote this letter.

Stick to a traditional family-based Singapore

MR JANADAS Devan's article, 'Can mum, mum and kids make a family?' (ST, July 7), suggested that Singapore should, in the long run, come to accept homosexuality on the basis of statistics, genetics and helping Singapore become one of the creative cities of the world.

To cite the example of a lesbian friend who is observed to be in a stable relationship with a same-sex partner, and who are loving parents to well-adjusted children and are model citizens and then invoking demographics to suggest that homosexual behaviour is more prevalent than one thinks do not make it acceptable.

This line of argument, taken to its logical extreme, suggests that one day in the future the world should also come to tolerate and accept other alternative lifestyles involving loving relations between consenting adult siblings or parents and their children (with adopted children thrown in to avoid defective genes being transmitted) when they become demographically prevalent.

Positive examples and high statistics cannot be the factors by which we decide what are acceptable, in the same way that negative examples and low statistics do not make the same behaviour unacceptable.

Raising the possibility that homosexual behaviour may be proven in future to have a genetic basis as a reason for acceptance is gaining ground, given that even Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew has articulated this line of argument recently on two occasions.

If that happens, should we believe that those with the same DNA (as in multiple births) containing the 'homosexual genes' would all necessarily turn out to be gay? Should we not then take the argument to its logical conclusion and suggest that God is to be blamed for implanting defective genes that caused the many degenerative diseases and medical conditions?

Many, Mr Janadas included, have seized on biblical passages selectively to question the Church and its beliefs. The same Lord Jesus Christ that Mr Janadas quoted in the article also said on the same occasion that he affirmed all the Laws that had been laid down in the past and one of them included God's abhorrence of homosexual practices, as stated in the Old and New Testaments.

If actively catering to talented and creative homosexuals is critical to Singapore's desire to become one of the most creative cities of the world, this Singaporean would rather pass and stick to a traditional family-based Singapore.

Alex Tan Tuan Loy

[TopChinese]

Also found a photo of him.. anyone wants to convert our dear traditional MAJ Tan?

MAJ Alex Tan Tuan Loy is an Artillery officer by vocation. His previous appointment was as a staff officer in G5 Army and he is currently in the 33rd CSC. MAJ Tan graduated with a BSc (2nd Upper Hons) in Physics and an MSc (Defence Technology), Royal Military College of Science, Shrivenham, UK.

[Guest artemov]

The Xtians are really going on the offensive now. Maybe we should go on our own offensive as well:

Show the public that these evangelistic Xtians fundies are no different from muslim fundies and extremists

Accuse them of collaborating with foreigners (US fundies) and trying to infiltrate and subvert singapore government and society; accuse them of treason

Attack them for being insensitive and insulting to the practises of Taoists/Buddhists and trying to convert them. In fact, push for a law to make it illegal for them to preach to Taoists/Buddhists, similar to the one on muslims.

Put them on the defensive!!!

The very least one can do is to vote at the ST polls.

================

Sorry Arte, I've moderated your posting. Chill ok.

Gachi

[Guest Guest]

.. anyone wants to convert our dear traditional MAJ Tan?

yeeee ... not me. if he's TSL, I'll volunteer.

[lonely]

Some one probably wrote a script to automate the voting.

But from what I can see, winning this poll does not mean that we won. Opinions are already formed in people. The result of the polls will do little to changes these opinions.

Objectively, part of what was written in the article is not entire wrong. Scientifically, reproduction is to ensure the survival of the species. It is important to pass down the good genes to the next generation. The notion of romantic love has some basis in the physiological aspects of the human anatomy. You tend to fall in love with people who can provide good genes to the next generations (beautiful people, smart people, strong people,young people...) Relationships with blood relative tends to have genetic defects, are therefore considered undesirable.

But based on this argument, homosexuality are unexplainable because this does not serve any reproductive purposes. Unfortunately, the fact remains that I tend to respond better to dicks rather than pussies. So I am still very very confused...

[Guest hstnasia]

What would be coming out of this poll? If More acceptance wins, Singapore will have an official gay pride day and allow same sex marriage? If the Less acceptance wins, Singapore will ban all the gay activities? I don't really think so. Whether the acceptance is getting more or less, what will be coming of it is beyond anyone's idea, isn't it? From my point of view, if we are going to be a homosexual, can anyone else do anything about it?

Singapore is going on the route of becoming Global city, so I would say if the justification of the acceptance level of homosexual in Singapore society is to be judged base on this poll, then Singapore would be far behind the goal of becoming a global city.

Thinking from a family value point of view, it may be right to have a heterosexual family as a base. But again, acceptance level of homosexuality may not have anything to do with family value. Unless he is asking for people to vote for thing like "Should Singapore legalized gay marriage" then, that's the direct relation and reasonable enough to start the poll.

And I think a lot of people may miss the point when we come to talk about same sex family, it's not just for the sake of a white wedding ceremony or to say yes in public. The idea behind it would be that homosexual will have the equal legal right to do a lot of thing that heterosexual could do for e.g. buying a house, inheritance of asset, adoption of child and etc.

This MAJ Tan guy is probably another homophobic who has got more time on his hand than he should have. OR probably he has absolutely no idea of what's the actual reason behind the movement on the same sex family and just blindly drive to his own conclusion that more or less acceptance translates directly into the meaning of family value.

P.S. one thing I observed, the poll tend to move towards more acceptance only when someone start the post on this forum, does this mean that we, homosexual, do less reading than hetero? And well, another thing, Internet power is really beyond imagination, isn't it?

P.P.S. I vote for Maintain the current level of acceptance, after all we are in Singapore (even though I'm not a Singaporean) being homo and being in the lime light isn't quite wise, right? And for that matter, aren't we all contented with what we already have? Openly gay bar, sauna etc.

[jazz]

... ... ...Show the public that these evangelistic Xtians fundies are no different from muslim fundies and extremists

Accuse them of collaborating with foreigners (US fundies) and trying to infiltrate and subvert singapore government and society; accuse them of treason

Attack them for being insensitive and insulting to the practises of Taoists/Buddhists and trying to convert them. In fact, push for a law to make it illegal for them to preach to Taoists/Buddhists, similar to the one on muslims.

Put them on the defensive!!!

... ... ....

Be warned! It's a CRIMINAL OFFENCE to instigate racial disharmony

[jazz]

We are now ON PAR..... 49% vs 49%. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Keep up the good work!

[TopChinese]

Be warned! It's a CRIMINAL OFFENCE to instigate racial disharmony

Nothing mentioned on race here. More like religious dissent.

I respect their right to their religion. I don't see why they cannot respect my right not to have their Gods in my bedroom.

[Guest thatwasrunie]

ok, i might get slammed but heck, IM NOT VOTING.

firstly, with you guys spamming the votes by voting multiple times wont change the society but indeed it would change the votes, end of the day votes are still votes and it can change but not the mindsets.

secondly, if a voting system could work, it would have been thought of long long long time ago~

have fun anyways

[TopChinese]

ok, i might get slammed but heck, IM NOT VOTING.

firstly, with you guys spamming the votes by voting multiple times wont change the society but indeed it would change the votes, end of the day votes are still votes and it can change but not the mindsets.

secondly, if a voting system could work, it would have been thought of long long long time ago~

No one is saying that the poll here will change any minds.

But IF, and only IF... someone will look at the result and see that there are so many more people out here who support a more open and inclusive society. And then he questions his own belief. Ask himself why he is so bigoted. Why did he still hang on to these oppressive and unjustified views.

Then, this poll would have served its purpose.

A lot of people out in SIN society think that us gays are a bunch of ass-fxxking, slutty, unsafe sissy boys. Its up to us to change their minds through positive role enforcements.

If you don't have the balls to stand up and be counted, then you cannot complain about not being treated fairly.

[jazz]

Be warned!  It's a CRIMINAL OFFENCE to instigate racial disharmony

Nothing mentioned on race here. More like religious dissent.

I respect their right to their religion. I don't see why they cannot respect my right not to have their Gods in my bedroom.

Apologies! A quick-typo error.

Should be "It is an offence to instigate Religious Harmony".

Each have their own views. That is way the world is what it is today! - In chaos.

[Guest thatwasrunie]

if. we're talking about a possibility which is rather slim dont you think ? as for the belief system ? you still think that people still belief? i mean like look at global/local mindsets and sitauations and then talk about the beliefs ( however you spell it)

to change their mind sets? spamming wont help eventually if they check the ip address from each vote and then remove the spams which would eventually show the real results. if voting system even worked, discrimination would be snubbed.

dont feel bad, its not the matter of balls of standing up but its about pragmatism but hey, it's just my point of view. take it or leave it~

[TopChinese]

dont feel bad, its not the matter of balls of standing up but its about pragmatism but hey, it's just my point of view. take it or leave it~

I respect your view. But with respect, if everyone thinks like you, we are no better off than those uncaring unfeeling sheep who gets fxxked by every tom hairy kiwi.

See lah.. whose voting script now crashed the ST website! Poll cannot access!

[HendryTan]

For guys who are using automated computer programs to vote, STOP IT !

Running such programs that may result in crashing their computer system is an offence under the "Computer Misuse Act". The StraitsTimes Web Servers have your IP address that can be tracked back to you !!!

Whatever you vote is fine and NOT an offence. But doing it in such a way (eg those spamming programs) that brings down the machines is an Offence.

[jazz]

... ... ...See lah.. whose voting script now crashed the ST website! Poll cannot access!

I just voted leh... No problem!

70% vs 28%

We win pants-down.... Oops... hands-down, I mean

[Guest bearbear]

70% vs 28%

We win pants-down.... Oops... hands-down, I mean?

Lets not start counting the chickens before they hach.

Its now at 46% v 54%

Maybe someone has to help post a SOS to all gay forums, gay.com, sgboy, trevvy, guy4men what ever, its has to reach out to all gay bi people in sg and internationally if we wan to make a statement with numbers. Its not about winning or losing it bout living our lives the way we want to live it.

kekeke...........

Not many gay people read ST online as there are so many other better things to do online than read ST, i rather buy it so i can read it in the toilet.I for one did not know bout this poll till i saw it here. So, i guess that most gay people dun even know bout this poll.

cheers

bb

[Guest Guest]

Read this ... an interesting personal view on gay issue :thumb:

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/12/a-p...-the-gay-issue/

[reflection]

Read this ... an interesting personal view on gay issue :thumb:

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/12/a-p...-the-gay-issue/

Indeed, a well-reflected and balanced article on gay issue. If only humans are not blinded by religions and start using their heart to feel.

[Asura]

Reflection...

First of all, the phrase "blind by religion" is subjective, as some people are BLIND by a simple fact, a normal verse.

(eg. can see how muslim terrorist interpret Quran, how some medium uses his knowledge and mislead women in believeing that sex with him will cure)

Secondly, not all people from one particular religion are that bad, every religion have its black sheep among the normal kind-hearted, right-mind people.

(eg. again, the muslim terrorist compare against muslim in Singapore, Buddhist you see normally in temple compare to buddhist extremist from Sri Lanka)

I guess I am not really surprise when I see this article, it only assure me that amongst the crowd of religious zealots who is against homosexuality and its existense, there is still some middle-path people who think with their brain, except anyone in the world as he/she is.

Similarly, of cause in the PLUs circle, there are also black sheep, I do not need to point out, as people who is walking the path should know.

But somehow, I am thankful that this "Anonymous" person make his/her point in a calmly, just, sensible way.

[TopChinese]

Calm, sensible debate? Where?

Things are really getting hot.

Yes you're reading the same arguments over again. These people keep saying the same ideas about gay marriage:

- Homosexual sex is unnatural because it is not normal

- Homosexual sex is not normal because our God says so

- Families should be 1 man/1 woman. No other families are normal.

- Allowing gays to marry will mean allowing other abnormal marriages

- If you support gay marriage, you are a pervert that will break down our society

Let's conserve our marriage constitution as one between man and woman

I WRITE in response to Mr Janadas Devan's article, 'Can mum, mum and kids make a family?' (ST, July 7) and Dr George D. Bishop's letter, 'Special-needs kids thrive, thanks to mum and mum' (ST, July 11).

The main thrust of their letters are that lesbians and homosexuals can and are a normal family unit and can take care of children just as well as any other family unit and thus should be allowed to get married and be one.

The basic building block of society has always been the family which is defined as a married father and mother with children. Without strong family units, society will be fraught with problems. Our Prime Minister has rightly stated that the family unit is the core of our Singapore society.

Now homosexuals and lesbians want to redefine 'marriage' and 'family'. Why so? There is an inherent need for them to be accepted by society that their sexual behaviour is not abnormal but just a variation of normal sexual activity.

Do we want a Singapore where same-sex marriage prevails? If so, one might ask why not incorporate the following as diverse families.

1. two brothers;

2. two sisters

3. a brother and sister (case in German courts)

4. a man and a horse (film 'Zoo' shown in Sundance Film Festival - bestiality)

5. why not a combination of three or more?

6. why bother have a marriage or a family?

All these questions are not too remote; because those pursuing a perverted lifestyle must have the endorsement of society to secure their very identity, and the only way to achieve this is to go down the slippery road to establish that perversion is normal like incest is normal; bestiality is normal.

It is an issue of self-autonomy. Self is god. The point made is not academic but it has already happened and will continue to happen. This may be seen in the case of the four legislators in Massachusetts who followed up 'their success at legalising homosexual unions by pushing for softening laws against other forms of sexual deviance' including bestiality viz reducing the penalty to a fine (See First Comes Gay Marriage then comes Bestiality in Massachusetts http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/nov/05111703.html )

The four Democrat legislators 'are all vocal supporters of abortion, homosexual unions, and are all endorsed by all three of Massachusetts' gay lobby groups. Family lobbyists opposed to the re-definition of marriage were frequently ridiculed for their warnings that dissolving the natural basis of marriage in law would end with legalising and normalising a host of sexual perversions, including incest and bestiality. The case of the Massachusetts legislators is in point.

Following this, 'the media has quickly picked up on the trend of acceptance for any and all sorts of conditions that before the 1960's sexual revolution and the politicising of the psychiatric profession, were universally recognised as serious psychological disorders. New terminology has been established, calling those persons interested in having sexual relations with animals, 'zoophiles' or 'zoos' for short, and a campaign has been discretely under way for some time to reduce the public 'stigma' against 'zoos'.

We, in Singapore, want to conserve our marriage institution as one between a man and a woman so that the needs of our children for a father and a mother are catered for. We abhor any regression into perversity which, as history has shown, has led into the decline and fall of a society.

Dr Alan Chin Yew Liang