Guest tri28 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doncoin Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 It comes down to how you communicate. raind 1 Quote Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fatty Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I want young and cute and hunky but they ignore or reject me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roll eyes Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 On 10/7/2017 at 12:20 AM, Guest Fatty said: I want young and cute and hunky but they ignore or reject me. Expand Look in the mirror, that should be your standard. I am the complete opposite, I work out and have a boyish face, so get hit on often. It gets annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benedict5856 Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) When i was young, about 20 years ago. I used to exercise, swim, carry weights. I go toilet, ppl follow me. when i go swimming, i had encounters more than 4 ppl JO in front of me. Yes, its annoying when those ppl are not my cuppa tea. Now..... sigh.... i am those annoying, waiting to prey on young guys. hahaha However, is it rude to be picky? Being picky can be also classified as knowing what u want in life. Edited July 15, 2019 by benedict5856 Behrhunter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lean n mean Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) . Edited April 10, 2018 by lean n mean Tampenises 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest concern Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 For the one just wanting to be friends and not sex!yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 It's not rude, just delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 At the sauna in the dark room this guy look boyish. Can't see clearly I insist of him going out to some brighter area to see his look. He reply people who go to sauna are not there to look for boyfriend. Why bother to see face. Wat people want is just to release their cum Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 If u 've what it takes to be picky, it is not. Quote 鍾意就好，理佢男定女 never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want. 结缘不结怨 解怨不解缘 After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say. 看穿不说穿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest uglychub Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I'm ugly chub. everytime I unlock my pics on gay app. Nobody want to continue talking to me anymore. at least TS has the choice to choose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kkklaus Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I don’t think it’s rude to be picky. It’s only how you decline or reject them. Some people can be very rude when you’re not their type and just say mean stuff Hecticday and not_aus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bien Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 During the glorious days of Hometeam sauna @ Balestier there was this regular happening of pickiness in behavior which was so offensive that it led to quarrels and brawls. First and foremost offending were those self-proclaimed Mr Starry who behaved like they were checking on the quality of the stock in a whorehouse. They open + close the wooden sauna door or turn on then turn off the lights to see inside. Only if the stock passes in his standard would he then continue to change to towel/underwear/naked to join in the sauna. Those sitting inside felt as if they were a bunch of prostitutes waiting for Mr Starry to pick. In order to avoid being picked/unpicked, some would dodge, stoop their heads, shift their towels from covering crotch to covering head, etc. The best was not to occupy that centre space of the bench or else you would be accused of scaring Mr Starry away being the first in line in eye contact. Its common to hear "he left seeing you", "you offended him is it?", etc. Crazy! Equally offending is Mr Bang Bang. These supermodels behaved like they have just seen the ugliest of gays that they would slammed the shower doors or sauna doors so hard to get their message across. One would really jumped up if showering in another cubicle at that time. In fact on few occasions the sauna door was tilted after rebounding hitting hard on the concrete outside the sauna. Not that they were straight guys showing anger. This behavior was definitely overboard. Third on the list were Mr Stuckups. The behavior displays so much looking down of a decent person who didn't even try to attract his attention. The moment you step into the sauna, Mr Stuckups would leave the room. Not believing it, the moment you stepped out he would then get in. This hit really really hard when all in the room left the moment you walked in . This behavior has a bit of herd mentality led by Mr Stuckup. What would it be like if the situation is reversed, that is he arrived while you were already inside? Mr stuckup would led his eyed-on guy out for a private time in the cubicles at times leaving this premise entirely. Are we made to be losers? Not me. I managed to get some of these social menace to hound on me wasting their time. Those that i have no influence on, I would just laugh myself loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAstro Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) To be honest, it's not a bad thing at all. In fact, it's quite natural. Each person has their own personal preferences. But at the same time, you just have to respect others' preferences too. Otherwise, it would be hypocrite of you and I think this is the question you actually wanted to ask, isn't it? Not rude. Anyway, being picky or having a personal preferences is what makes us humans. We just have to accept it. Edited October 8, 2017 by NeoAstro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces87 Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 It is not rude. Just your own preferences. Everyone has one. But do reject politely and accept graciously when rejected. But then again some people just couldn’t take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rohit Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 On 10/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Guest tri28 said: When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Expand On 10/8/2017 at 5:41 PM, Aces87 said: It is not rude. Just your own preferences. Everyone has one. But do reject politely and accept graciously when rejected. But then again some people just couldn’t take it. Expand True. It really doesn’t matter how you look especially if you are below average looking for others. You are just being honest to yourself and to the other party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suckmegood Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Everyone has preferences. So, it’s ok to go for the one that you prefer. But, also note that the person you are going for ALSO HAVE preferences and you might not be in his list. So, rude or not, it’s not about being picky. It’s about how to politely decline the person... But of cuz, there’s also people who cannot handle rejection. These people, after you had politely decline, and they still head on, then you have to make the next call of decision to head butt back or just ignore. That, the choice is yours. fab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunkle Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 It’s not rude to have preferences. It’s rude when you reject someone’s advances with unkind words or violent actions. Personally I feel bad when I reject someone because I’m often the one being rejected so I know how it can hurt. So when I do reject someone I try to take the sting out of it by doing so as pleasantly as possible. For example in a sauna if someone I’m not interested in makes a move on me, I don’t slap his hand away like a mosquito; instead, gently move his hand away, smile and say thanks but I’m not interested, or just smile and shake my head. No need to “tsk” and roll my eyes and stomp away like some wounded diva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 On 10/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Guest tri28 said: When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Expand Is there a right or wrong to be picky in the first place ? If not ; why ask ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Am I right to say.... Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 On 9/7/2018 at 2:21 PM, Guest John said: Is there a right or wrong to be picky in the first place ? If not ; why ask ........ Expand It is wrong to be picky (by being a loud critique), but OK to be choosey (silently decide what suit you). Am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 10/8/2017 at 9:52 AM, Guest Bien said: During the glorious days of Hometeam sauna @ Balestier there was this regular happening of pickiness in behavior which was so offensive that it led to quarrels and brawls. First and foremost offending were those self-proclaimed Mr Starry who behaved like they were checking on the quality of the stock in a whorehouse. They open + close the wooden sauna door or turn on then turn off the lights to see inside. Only if the stock passes in his standard would he then continue to change to towel/underwear/naked to join in the sauna. Those sitting inside felt as if they were a bunch of prostitutes waiting for Mr Starry to pick. In order to avoid being picked/unpicked, some would dodge, stoop their heads, shift their towels from covering crotch to covering head, etc. The best was not to occupy that centre space of the bench or else you would be accused of scaring Mr Starry away being the first in line in eye contact. Its common to hear "he left seeing you", "you offended him is it?", etc. Crazy! Equally offending is Mr Bang Bang. These supermodels behaved like they have just seen the ugliest of gays that they would slammed the shower doors or sauna doors so hard to get their message across. One would really jumped up if showering in another cubicle at that time. In fact on few occasions the sauna door was tilted after rebounding hitting hard on the concrete outside the sauna. Not that they were straight guys showing anger. This behavior was definitely overboard. Third on the list were Mr Stuckups. The behavior displays so much looking down of a decent person who didn't even try to attract his attention. The moment you step into the sauna, Mr Stuckups would leave the room. Not believing it, the moment you stepped out he would then get in. This hit really really hard when all in the room left the moment you walked in . This behavior has a bit of herd mentality led by Mr Stuckup. What would it be like if the situation is reversed, that is he arrived while you were already inside? Mr stuckup would led his eyed-on guy out for a private time in the cubicles at times leaving this premise entirely. Are we made to be losers? Not me. I managed to get some of these social menace to hound on me wasting their time. Those that i have no influence on, I would just laugh myself loud. Expand Oh well. But I think nothing us rude on being picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve5380 Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 10/7/2017 at 12:39 AM, benedict5856 said: When i was young, about 20 years ago. I used to exercise, swim, carry weights. I go toilet, ppl follow me. when i go swimming, i had encounters more than 4 ppl JO in front of me. Yes, its annoying when those ppl are not my cuppa tea. Now..... sigh.... i am those annoying, waiting to pray on young guys. hahaha However, is it rude to be picky? Being picky can be also classified as knowing what u want in life. Expand Why you USED? As we get older, to exercise especially with weights becomes increasingly important and beneficial. And it can even be enjoyable. If you stopped exercising for 20 years and you are now about 40 y.o, you are at an ideal age to start exercising now and improve for many decades. In 5 years you can recover your former good shape and then younger people will come to you instead of you having to pray on them. To be picky is an internal attitude that you don't need to show externally. To be rude can happen independently of being picky or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve5380 Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 10/8/2017 at 9:52 AM, Guest Bien said: During the glorious days of Hometeam sauna @ Balestier there was this regular happening of pickiness in behavior which was so offensive that it led to quarrels and brawls. First and foremost offending were those self-proclaimed Mr Starry who behaved like they were checking on the quality of the stock in a whorehouse. They open + close the wooden sauna door or turn on then turn off the lights to see inside. Only if the stock passes in his standard would he then continue to change to towel/underwear/naked to join in the sauna. Those sitting inside felt as if they were a bunch of prostitutes waiting for Mr Starry to pick. In order to avoid being picked/unpicked, some would dodge, stoop their heads, shift their towels from covering crotch to covering head, etc. The best was not to occupy that centre space of the bench or else you would be accused of scaring Mr Starry away being the first in line in eye contact. Its common to hear "he left seeing you", "you offended him is it?", etc. Crazy! Equally offending is Mr Bang Bang. These supermodels behaved like they have just seen the ugliest of gays that they would slammed the shower doors or sauna doors so hard to get their message across. One would really jumped up if showering in another cubicle at that time. In fact on few occasions the sauna door was tilted after rebounding hitting hard on the concrete outside the sauna. Not that they were straight guys showing anger. This behavior was definitely overboard. Third on the list were Mr Stuckups. The behavior displays so much looking down of a decent person who didn't even try to attract his attention. The moment you step into the sauna, Mr Stuckups would leave the room. Not believing it, the moment you stepped out he would then get in. This hit really really hard when all in the room left the moment you walked in . This behavior has a bit of herd mentality led by Mr Stuckup. What would it be like if the situation is reversed, that is he arrived while you were already inside? Mr stuckup would led his eyed-on guy out for a private time in the cubicles at times leaving this premise entirely. Are we made to be losers? Not me. I managed to get some of these social menace to hound on me wasting their time. Those that i have no influence on, I would just laugh myself loud. Expand Now that I am old and not a model anymore it would be ideal for me to play with those picky creatures. I would step into the sauna and make Mr Stuckups leave it, followed by his admirers. One minute later I would step out, and Mr stuckups and his court would return. Two minutes later I would step in again, making Mr Stuckups leave again... and return one minute later. In half an hour I could repeat this sequence ten times, and feel so good about the control I have over Mr Stuckups Then I would sit in the middle of the bench facing the entrance, take off my towel and play with my balls. I would ask the others to count how many seconds elapse after Mr Starry enters and leaves immediately when seeing me. And we would laugh our heads off. sam8899 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benedict5856 Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 10:48 PM, Steve5380 said: Now that I am old and not a model anymore it would be ideal for me to play with those picky creatures. I would step into the sauna and make Mr Stuckups leave it, followed by his admirers. One minute later I would step out, and Mr stuckups and his court would return. Two minutes later I would step in again, making Mr Stuckups leave again... and return one minute later. In half an hour I could repeat this sequence ten times, and feel so good about the control I have over Mr Stuckups Then I would sit in the middle of the bench facing the entrance, take off my towel and play with my balls. I would ask the others to count how many seconds elapse after Mr Starry enters and leaves immediately when seeing me. And we would laugh our heads off. Expand Born irritance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/15/2019 at 6:32 AM, benedict5856 said: Born irritance Expand Like you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 When gays get rejected, side swiped. Drama unfolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Above Average Boy Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 How to Accept and Average Life Below average guy saying you're not his type Is it rude to be picky? The above 3 consecutive topics seem to overlap each other, about a below average guy, whinning of being rejected. Same person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blank Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 I don't think it's rude. Myself have rejected at least 10 guys before, but we don't hate each other. I still keep in contact with some of them. Ironically, one of them is my bf's best friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundjocksg Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 10/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Guest tri28 said: When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Expand When u are attached just kerp your focus on your partner. Your infidelity and ego are the the root of all problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundjocksg Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/15/2019 at 10:32 PM, boundjocksg said: When u are attached just kerp your focus on your partner. Your infidelity and ego are the the root of all problems Expand Those young boys will not be there for u when u are Ill need help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest5 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Think Of Others Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand I disagree with you that your neighbour was being rude and picky. He made the right decision at that moment. He was just being discreet to avoid any awkward situation and gossips amongst other neighbours who might be drinking together (as you mentioned WE). Zealouslogue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand It depends on How old are you? If you are 90s, he's still a piece of fresh meat. Zealouslogue 1 Quote 鍾意就好，理佢男定女 never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want. 结缘不结怨 解怨不解缘 After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say. 看穿不说穿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest U think u wat Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand He is probably a Virgin. Very Noble guy at that age. You think u wat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
practease Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I personally feel that it's incredibly rude to be picky... but one can make things better by rejecting in a civil and respectful manner. Tactful and firm, polite and graceful. If the other party still doesn't get it...then that's another thing altogether. Zealouslogue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Random Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand Sorry but I think you are the one being rude and self-entitled here. Just because he is in his 50s and single doesn't mean he should have no reference and accept any person hitting on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lean n mean Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand In your view, anyone in their late 50s cannot be picky. Which means if he is still picky, you must be really damn ugly. Zealouslogue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve5380 Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Guest Guest5 said: My neighbor next door who is already in his late 50s is still single. We think that he is gay. One night we were drinking and I show motive to have fun but he turned me down. I find it rude. Why he has to be picky at that age? Expand Someone in his later 50s can still be attractive and be accepted by one in his 30s. Or even someone in his 20s. This means that he can reject anyone who he does not find desirable. Also, if he is smart to be attractive in his later 50s he should be smart to "reject" in the most kind and least offensive way. So don't feel bad of having been turned down. It does not mean that you are undesirable, but you simply are not his type. Besides... he only WILL be picky because he CAN be picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Exactly. 50s is not rubbish bin. In fact, any age isn't as long as the person is well kept. Quote 鍾意就好，理佢男定女 never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want. 结缘不结怨 解怨不解缘 After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say. 看穿不说穿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garyl Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 On 10/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Guest tri28 said: When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Expand you need to be hard right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest under_rated Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 I notice it is only in SG where people are picky but they dont fall on their standards, like a tean boy who look average, no money to go out, average body etc but want a hunky rich handsome guy. Im surprised actually in other country they expect according on what they can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litao Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Don't be desparate. Maintain your standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinkienips Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 It’s good to be straightforward and state you preference clearly. I prefer other party to be clear with what they want instead of saying things in a vague way after chatting for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuki Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just communicate nicely... Everybody have preferences just for example I don't like youngsters and Twink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcurious_87 Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 No, I don't think it's rude- we all have specific tastes. It's rude when people who do not look after themselves or even try, and get upset upon rejection by those "outside of their league". I know that I take care of myself and body to be appreciated by an equivalent and I use the above sentence as motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notd Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 There's that saying "Each to his own." Not really sure why there's whole uproar surrounding preferences, so much that these days it gets mislabeled as discrimination, or worse terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hscf16 Posted April 2, 2023 Report Share Posted April 2, 2023 On 10/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Guest tri28 said: When looking for someone to hookup or chat, I usually look for teens below 20, poly jc boys, drivers, etc. I dont think I’m good looking and I’m also chubby. Is it rude for me to be picky? Expand It depends on the context and how one expresses their preferences. It's understandable to have preferences or standards when it comes to things like food, clothing, or other personal choices. However, expressing these preferences in a way that belittles or dismisses others who do not share those preferences could be considered rude or disrespectful. It's important to communicate one's preferences respectfully and without judgment towards others. For example, saying "I don't eat meat" is different from saying "I can't believe you eat meat, it's disgusting." The former statement expresses a personal preference without criticizing others, while the latter statement can be seen as judgmental and disrespectful. Ultimately, it's up to each individual to decide what their preferences and boundaries are, but it's important to express those preferences in a way that is considerate and respectful towards others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fatpicky Posted April 4, 2023 Report Share Posted April 4, 2023 not only fat picky somemore. lol. ugly both mentally n physically. i hope everyday you look at mirror and find deeper understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swimmingcruiser Posted April 4, 2023 Report Share Posted April 4, 2023 I agree with a lot of the comments here that it’s okay to be picky, but it’s not okay to be mean or rude about it. When I’m at the pool changing room, I get a lot of these old or fat cruisers who flash their dick at me or even ask me if I want fun. I just reply no thanks and just leave it at that. No need to look disgusted or angry. After all, we all will get old. Remember, karma is a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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