Happy To Eat Apart

[bukitpanjang]

http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2007/yax-829.htm

from yawningbread

keeping objective, i think as someone who usually forms part of a group of diverse people its always a headache to go somewhere to enjoy lunch or dinner with friends or colleagues.

and yes it seems this headache will just keep getting bigger and bigger.

point being, it becomes tiring both on their part and mine to meet up with friends only to have, "aiya we just ate at that so called place the other time blah blah blah". simply because the choices of food is limited, for me.

is there a solution for this?

i was working at around paya lebar with an advertising company sometime back and there was this halal certified food court (not the 2 banquets on the ground floor) in my opinion it really have great food. ie, a nice variety of malay dishes and a nice variety of local chinese dishes as well. but every lunch time i can't help notice the small number of patrons. but every few times that week my colleagues and i would enjoy eating together (esp when everyone felt like eating some variety. as opposed to choosing to eat at the temporary market, since the food variety is... catered to malay tastes. even i don't wanna eat "malay" food 5days in a row... so i can imagine what my colleagues might feel.

slowly but surely, that food court mentioned changed to mixed food court, and thus serves seafood and normal chinese dishes and only 2 or 3 stalls that are certified halal. it came to a point if i recall... none of the stalls displayed that certification. i stick to the seafood noodles (no meat) only if we decide to eat there. even then, after a while i decide not to join them as simply put, guilt sets in.

having said that, there are less and less establishments that have a relatively good mix of such eating places.

"Then again, perhaps we're fretting about nothing, for people seem happy enough to eat at separate places. Why are we trying to socially-engineer people to fit some textbook conception of "social harmony"?"

but clearly i'm not that happy because i enjoy the company of my friends, and they are... all sorts... so eating is also something that we enjoy... hence... how than can we share something that we enjoy together?

[Baloo]

unfortunately, this country's people and eating establishments are like that...

I have rather 'strong ideas' on what faith should not be... and food limitations is one of them...

someone told me that cows are sacred and we should not eat them even if we are ourselves starving (arca India) right...

the origins of practices of people... i am not even sure it food is involved in the practice of faith originally...

but history suggests that during the time of the 'practice' of food choice, some animals were going through a series of diseases, and were bad for human health shud they be consumed... and thus, banned, for the good of the people.

today, still have mad cow disease... but we know when that happens, and can move to avoid it, and off the affectd animals... thus controlling the disease from spreading.

hogs too, had been diseases today, and we ban all Malaysian pork... yet in Malaysia, eating like nobody's business... and no longer dying.

my point is - did we mix safety practice into religion? is it really sacred, or demonic?

my favourite line is this: wine and meat, it only passes through our intestines... it is within our hearts, true faith remains...

this post is not meant to offend, or belittle, or make fun of any religion. It's just my personal understanding and interpretation of the practices... form is nothing without true heart... and true heart... does not require form...

.

[justme9_9]

Interesting viewpoints, Ballo, Bk Panjang.

Someone told me never to argue when it comes to food or religion cos people get worked up to the extent where they get so upset that they can kill.

As with everything else in life, sometimes we dont have all the choices we would prefer. When I have a meal with friends and if I want to eat with them, I buy whatever I want, they buy whatever they want and we sit and eat together. We are friends and as such, I dont mind what they eat and they dont mind what I eat.

Are choices limited? Sure. Economics dictate what is served. I dont like noodles, fried, boiled, whatever. As such, my choices are limited.

What am I saying? Well I suppose I am saying, in a very roundabout matter, life is like that. One has to either change the environment or one has to change oneself (and included is where one has to just accept life as is).

Just my two sens worth.

[Baloo]

someone asked me today what am i eating.... I said, I was eating Haram, and non-Vegetarian food ...

tomorror, it will be halal, and the next day, indian vegetarian... and the next, buddhist vegetarian, and then, the cycle begins again...

of course, i was replying to a non-muslim person's question.

I am very sensitive to people with restricted diet... I eat what they eat in thier company, being the total dustbin I am...

lately kind of tend to mix with the beefeaters more... yummy steak... haram.... non-vegetarian... meat...

:smokin:

[Lungker]

Let me share with you guys my own personal experience with the subject.

I used to live ast Blk 201D Tampines street 21. There was a typical HDB Chinese coffeeshop on the ground floor. It had seven Chinese stalls including one che char restaurant, 2 Malay stalls and a typical Indian muslim roti prata stall.

The ouststanding food there was a Malay nasi padang stall. It was a family run thing. Business was so good, they are open for lunch only from 11 am to 2.30 pm. They are also close for the whole month of Ramadan.

The coffeeshop was sold for $7 million to to a owner of another even more successful coffeeshop in the same neighbourhood. To prevent competition to his first coffeeshop, the new owner plan to convert the coffeeshop he bought to a halal coffeeshop.

Before that even happened, he approached the nasi padang people to ask them to stay. the rental would go up by slightly more 100% to $6000. On top of that, they would have to chip in slightly more than $1000 for their share of cleaners to clear and clean the tables.

Before the new owner take over, the nasi padang family spoke to me. They knew me well. I ate their food at least twice a week for 14 years. They told me about their situation and I ask if there was another place they could move to. They replied beside the offer from the new owner, they had one from a third Chinese coffeeshop just 20 metres away. The rent would be $3000, the same as what they were currently paying. The only concern was they would be next to a Chinese economic rice stall. Currently, they and the other Malay stall were tucked in a corner of the coffeeshop by themselves.

I asked them what percentage of their customers are Chinese? They say more than 70%. Is there a problem with their utensils being mixed with those from the Chinese stalls? The reply was no. So what is the problem I asked them? They say they were afraid their Malay customers may not be comforatble eating there.

I told them, eventually it is a dollars and cents issue. By moving to the third coffeeshop nearby, they would save more than $4000 per month! IF they move to another location, they would lose their customers and have to re-built their business. They gladly took my advice and move to the third coffeeshop. I understand their business is even better there because the third coffeeshop is bigger in size and they retained all their existing customers.

Back to the coffeeshop below my previous flat. The new owner convert it to a brand new ultra modern halal coffeeshop. Because of the money he paid to buy the coffeeshop - $7 million, and an additional half a million at least to renovate, he had to charge at least $6000 rent per stall. Out of eight stalls, three were and still had not been taken up since it opened in Oct. last year. The five stalls are all owned by Chinese employing at least two muslim workers. The food are Chinese in nature but halal. I think the taste is not authentic and the prices are too high.

Business was extremely bad. Although it had improved somewhat after all the stalls had their certification from MUIs, it is still quite bad. The prices of the food is at least 20 to 30 percent higher, due to the high rent. The Chinese in the neighbourhood are avoiding the place because Chinese food without pork are just not the same. Also, they have two other big Chinese coffeshops to go to.

A friend of mine predicted, like what BP had experienced, the new halal coffeeshop will eventually be converted to a non-halal coffeeshop. The owner is bleeding money by the bucket. If one or more of the stalls shut down, he will have to change his business plan. I am predicting they will drop the halal coffeeshop concept by the end of the year.

For the Malay nasi padang, it was all about economics. I think it will be the same for the halal coffeshop owner.

On another note. Last weekend, I went to a Indonesian friend's kampong at Bintang Island. This friend, M, is a Indonesian muslim originally from Aceh. He went to Medan for his college and had been working in Bintan's Lobam Industrial Estate as a Technician for six years before he found a job here in Singapore. He stayed in another room at my place for two months.

M had no problem with non-halal food cooked by Chinese as long as it does not contain pork or pork oil. I have dinner with him quite often in Singapore and as long as the dishes do not contain pork, he will eats it. I was quite concern initially but his reply was generally the muslims especially the poorer ones in Indonesia are less fussy about halal food. He says quite a number of the pasar stalls at the traditional wet markets are run by the Chinese and they are not halal certified anyway. As long as they do not eat pork, they are not breaking any laws. (More on my kampong at Bingtang trip later in another thread. I have lots of pics.)

I think there are no right or wrong answers. For myself, I have no problem eating at halal coffeeshops. However, I would only eat Malay food cooked by Malays. I would never eat Chinese food in a halal coffeeshop. Tried it a few times and honestly they all taste quite bad.

[bukitpanjang]

having said that

its obvious there's no real solution and i don't think its a good idea to impose a solution to this matter.

- everyone will have their own tastes.

- its a lot easier to go with the taste of the majority (like come to a decision of what where and how to eat comes a lot easier.)

as can be seen from some examples above, i would think to agree that chinese food prepared in some 100% halal establishments don't really come close to the real thing (perhaps from an ingredient perspective). and there's nothing quite like an authentic nasi padang meal.

i guess the main issue now lies on those halal establishments.

when can the quality of their products be of higher standards? ie, taste better, nicer presentation, healthier, and value for money? is it really hard to balance?

more importantly, as a non practitioner of eating halal food, can any of you mention a stall that (confirm plus chop) is certified halal yet the food is really something you'd recommend to ur friends whether they practice or not. most likely something u discover by chance, but really gives you a good impression of the food.

i think finding that yard stick of what's really good to differentiate from the rest, although is not a solution about eating apart amongst the races, but at least provides an avenue where the different races can do something really well.

ie enjoy really good food!

[Lungker]

BP, let me ask you something.

I am curious to know, with all due respect. Do you feel guilty eating Malay food or halal certified food together on the same table with your Chinese friends who are eating food containing pork?

I am asking this because quite often I shared table with Malay strangers at mix coffeeshops at the smoking section. Nobody seemed to have a problem.

[Asura]

its obvious there's no real solution and i don't think its a good idea to impose a solution to this matter.

I wonder when you talk about solution, are you refering to a place where all race could eat what they like? I think the problem lies in the very heart of the person or people. We jolly well aware that we are living in a multi-racial society where cultural, religion and practise diversified our lifes, of cause number one on the list is, food. Now, what I see is a matter of giving and taking. I don't see whats wrong with people giving their rights of eating pork this meal, just to accompany a malay friend to join a halal establishment.

If I would ask, how many would tell me that they don't mind? I am sure I heard some people telling me "Those halal chicken rice is bad taste, never the real thing." I remember we had our gathering at a indian vegetarian buffet restaurant. One of our member could not stand the food, had to go else where where he find food less spices and with meat.

What is good food? Is it only those that follow the original country cooking method? Or the taste sould be 100% the same? I ever heard a phase "A good painting does not need to be painted by a famous artist or dead artist". If the food taste good, its good, not whether does it taste like the original. If one like fine dinning, he can do it alone or with peers which do not mind the certification status. When with friends, I don't know what is important, friendship or food.

PS. Non of the chicken rice stall is "authentic" anyway, the moment they use farm raise chicken. Some stall even have the cheek to use frozen chicken.

more importantly, as a non practitioner of eating halal food, can any of you mention a stall that (confirm plus chop) is certified halal yet the food is really something you'd recommend to ur friends whether they practice or not. most likely something u discover by chance, but really gives you a good impression of the food.

I remember a food court in Geylang, the one in the same building with former Tristar Hotel, now Hotel 81 Tristar. The whole food court is halal certified. The Zhe Char there is one that surprises me. Halal food and yet chinese style. The other stalls are not bad either.

Asura heard people crying in the back "Dinner gathering only central, not else where..."

[Baloo]

I guess what this boils down to... is about the company you eat with.

Friends transend all racial and religious boundaries... and can 'break bread' anywhere together as friends.

I respect a person's food restrictions as something that need to be practiced in good faith ...

in the course of my life, i had met many Muslim friends, quite a few much older than i am... who had no qualms about joining us and even suggesting we go to restaurants/eateries that actually do not offer halal food... their personal explaination was actually also based on their faith... that as a good friend, he needs to see to our needs more - and since we were not practicing his faith, he would come out and eat with us at the food outlets we are more used to... we were actually extremely embarrassed that he went out of his way to 'be with us'. and he was content to eat fish, and vegetables, and rice, and just about anything... in fact.. he ordered the dishes haha... and specifically ordered stuff for us (in consultation of course... you like this, or that etc)

I shall not share more of his 'philosophy' and 'interpretation' of his faith here as I am no expert, and my hearing and memory could be in error on the details... In my eyes he did not break his faith... he did not eat any pork per se.

it's like a monk who is out 'begging' for elms with a 'begger bowl' ... a very high ranking monk once told me - when he is out for elms... it will not matter what food is put in the bowl... he will eat with thanks. out of respect for him, many families, do give only 'vegetarian' food... but some poor families, have no other option but shared their food willingly, and it's mixed as one dish (that's how poor they are) YET THEY SHARED ... this monk told me that if he picked and objected to the food, he will be the sinner... to the generosity of that poor family... his philosophy is to this date deeply etched in my mind - "wines and meat only passes through the body - it is within the heart, that your faith remains" I cried when I heard him say it... it's so cliche, yet it touched me where no one has touched when he spoke it... and I heard it...