Nowadays, do homophobics still exist because we let them be?

[BlinkOnce]

Disclaimer:

First and foremost, my apology for the poorly thought-out title. I think it might sound like victim-blaming. But my intention is to encourage each and every PLU, whom this post reaches out to, to be braver, stand up for themselves and as a result contribute to LGBTQ+ community's efforts to eradicate discrimination.

Long post, as the new Mod, I take this chance to tell you more about myself and my belief. I come with a self-mission to drive positivity to the forum, and I think I need to get the ball rolling with a good story, eh?

 

Back to the topic

So I came across this article today.

https://zula.sg/homophobia-singapore/?fbclid=IwAR3cObfbGSUpq4o3SvaBjFWIqeK_GQ8ycZnSSV3xbc4fPHzktX4_FjMbe94

TL;DR: Kennede Sng was bullied in pri and sec school for being different. During NS and uni, he suffered homophobia from people around him. BUT, when he had enough and came out, things went well. In short, he shut down homophobia simply by letting himself be known.

 

I relate to this article so well because I always believe that in this day and age, with Singapore's highly educated population and LGBTQ+ activism gaining quite the momentum and recognition, homophobia might stem from lack of exposure to homosexuals. It is human's nature to fear what we don't know and understand.

 

My belief is mostly based on my personal experience (Of course the experience will different for other people due to different personalities, environments and various factors)

 

My coming out journey started since my teenage years (16yo), shortly after I noticed that I focused more on the guys in porn and found pussies a little distasteful. From close friends, to indirectly acknowledging "rumors" that I'm gay, to my parents and some colleagues. I personally think coming out to colleagues was a little excessive, but it happened because my performance was severely affected when my last relationship was failing. And, I'm not done yet. My ultimate goal is to come out to my relatives as well, but this affects my parents so I gotta wait for them to be ready.

Since then (7-8 years), I have never ever met anyone who displays homophobic behaviours towards me knowing that I'm gay. No discrimination as well. Some did before I came out to them, then stopped after I came out.

My closest girl friend used to be slightly homophobic because she was shocked when another girl confessed her feelings to her. After I came out to her, she became an LGBTQ+ activism advocate. She told me I changed her. She is proud of me, and I'm proud of her.

 

So, I kind of came to a conclusion that homophobia happens because of lack of exposure. PLUs can shut it down by giving homophobics the exposure. It's frightening, yes, I recognize that although I don't truly understand because I have not experienced it.

 

The pattern repeated itself for my ex. I talked and forced him into coming out to one of his close friends. Okay I admit now that forcing him to come out is very toxic, I could have used more patience. But I felt like he needed a friend to talk to whenever we fought, but he was closeted, so he could only keep it to himself - at that time our relationship was falling apart. ANYWAY, guess how his friend reacted. "Orh". THAT'S IT! NOTHING CHANGED. Oh actually got. I was finally visible in his world. After that, things became easy. Now he can IG story and post photos of his travelling with his new love. I'm bitter AF though. All those were all thanks to me, no???

 

Previously, I used to think that maybe I'm just privileged to have a pretty stubborn, I-don't-give-a-fuck, dominant (no, not the kind of dominant you are thinking) personality, together with a relatively modern, positive upbringing where most social norms weren't forced upon me. Asides from the "arts and F&B no future" b.s (which I experienced only in adulthood, why so late though???), I can do whatever I want. Like dolls? Sure no problems, go sew some clothes for it. Here is a fashion design kit for your birthday, have fun. Befriend with mostly girls, no problems. Wanna stop tuition, no problems, mama don't want you to stress. Just like that, I grew up with a very strong sense of self. Sadly that my younger sis don't get to experience that same parenting style. I think my mom is probably trying to make her another success (ps let me hao lian a bit ok), but forgets that her parenting style was what made me grow up well. Funnily though, my mom was shocked when I came out to her and has been in denial for 4 years (she loves me still, just scolds me whenever I remind her that I love cocks). I thought they have prepared themselves because I have been kinda feminine since young. My dad was shocked as well, but being the science guy he spent the night reading online about homosexuality, had a debate with me about why PLUs have not been eliminated by natural selection since we don't reproduce, asked me about how gay guys have sex, then decided he can be cool with me being gay (although still sad cos no-one to carry his bloodline) and tried to talk to my mom.

 

Anyway, after my ex's experience, I came to realise that maybe my smooth-sailing coming out journey was not because of just me being a brave bitch, but there is an actual mechanism/pattern (exposure eliminates homophobia) that everyone can get to experience once they gather enough to courage to make the first baby step. From there, there will be snowball effect, things will get easier. You get the idea.

 

And the article I shared above, once again, reaffirmed my belief.

 

My belief might only be true in this day and age, among young people thanks to the many privileges we have and take for granted. But still, not bad right? Getting to be your true, authentic selves, at the same time contributing to the LGBTQ+ movement. As long as the movement gets to spread, everyone in the community will eventually benefit from it. One thing to note though, a movement is caused by collective efforts of individuals, not the activists - the activists are there to guide you only. So you, yes, you, must contribute to the best of your abilities as well. By contributing, you also help yourself out. Coming out to just one friend means you are already less lonely. Coming out to more friends means you are getting the acceptance you deserve. etc etc

 

Anyway, to conclude this long dreadful post, homophobia can be shut down by simply letting ourselves be known. I come with this belief and I hope to empower youths who are coming to this forum, and also anyone of any age who needs a little empowerment. Empower them enough so they can first accept themselves. Then maybe one beautiful day they might gather enough courage to come out and fight for themselves.

 

Words only no use, there will be actions. Give me some time to familiarise myself with Mod tools before I implement some ideas to do what I just said.

 

Anyway, debate away. Your sharing is much appreciated and will help me get a better, less one-dimensional picture.

 

Thank you!

 

[LeanMature]

The pertinent question is, what is preventing the mindset to change, accommodate and accept. 

[BlinkOnce]

1 hour ago, LeanMature said:

The pertinent question is, what is preventing the mindset to change, accommodate and accept. 

whose mindset are you talking about though?

[Guest Guest]

5 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

Disclaimer:

First and foremost, my apology for the poorly thought-out title. I think it might sound like victim-blaming. But my intention is to encourage each and every PLU, whom this post reaches out to, to be braver, stand up for themselves and as a result contribute to LGBTQ+ community's efforts to eradicate discrimination.

Long post, as the new Mod, I take this chance to tell you more about myself and my belief. I come with a self-mission to drive positivity to the forum, and I think I need to get the ball rolling with a good story, eh?

 

Back to the topic

So I came across this article today.

https://zula.sg/homophobia-singapore/?fbclid=IwAR3cObfbGSUpq4o3SvaBjFWIqeK_GQ8ycZnSSV3xbc4fPHzktX4_FjMbe94

TL;DR: Kennede Sng was bullied in pri and sec school for being different. During NS and uni, he suffered homophobia from people around him. BUT, when he had enough and came out, things went well. In short, he shut down homophobia simply by letting himself be known.

 

I relate to this article so well because I always believe that in this day and age, with Singapore's highly educated population and LGBTQ+ activism gaining quite the momentum and recognition, homophobia might stem from lack of exposure to homosexuals. It is human's nature to fear what we don't know and understand.

 

My belief is mostly based on my personal experience (Of course the experience will different for other people due to different personalities, environments and various factors)

 

My coming out journey started since my teenage years (16yo), shortly after I noticed that I focused more on the guys in porn and found pussies a little distasteful. From close friends, to indirectly acknowledging "rumors" that I'm gay, to my parents and some colleagues. I personally think coming out to colleagues was a little excessive, but it happened because my performance was severely affected when my last relationship was failing. And, I'm not done yet. My ultimate goal is to come out to my relatives as well, but this affects my parents so I gotta wait for them to be ready.

Since then (7-8 years), I have never ever met anyone who displays homophobic behaviours towards me knowing that I'm gay. No discrimination as well. Some did before I came out to them, then stopped after I came out.

My closest girl friend used to be slightly homophobic because she was shocked when another girl confessed her feelings to her. After I came out to her, she became an LGBTQ+ activism advocate. She told me I changed her. She is proud of me, and I'm proud of her.

 

So, I kind of came to a conclusion that homophobia happens because of lack of exposure. PLUs can shut it down by giving homophobics the exposure. It's frightening, yes, I recognize that although I don't truly understand because I have not experienced it.

 

The pattern repeated itself for my ex. I talked and forced him into coming out to one of his close friends. Okay I admit now that forcing him to come out is very toxic, I could have used more patience. But I felt like he needed a friend to talk to whenever we fought, but he was closeted, so he could only keep it to himself - at that time our relationship was falling apart. ANYWAY, guess how his friend reacted. "Orh". THAT'S IT! NOTHING CHANGED. Oh actually got. I was finally visible in his world. After that, things became easy. Now he can IG story and post photos of his travelling with his new love. I'm bitter AF though. All those were all thanks to me, no???

 

Previously, I used to think that maybe I'm just privileged to have a pretty stubborn, I-don't-give-a-fuck, dominant (no, not the kind of dominant you are thinking) personality, together with a relatively modern, positive upbringing where most social norms weren't forced upon me. Asides from the "arts and F&B no future" b.s (which I experienced only in adulthood, why so late though???), I can do whatever I want. Like dolls? Sure no problems, go sew some clothes for it. Here is a fashion design kit for your birthday, have fun. Befriend with mostly girls, no problems. Wanna stop tuition, no problems, mama don't want you to stress. Just like that, I grew up with a very strong sense of self. Sadly that my younger sis don't get to experience that same parenting style. I think my mom is probably trying to make her another success (ps let me hao lian a bit ok), but forgets that her parenting style was what made me grow up well. Funnily though, my mom was shocked when I came out to her and has been in denial for 4 years (she loves me still, just scolds me whenever I remind her that I love cocks). I thought they have prepared themselves because I have been kinda feminine since young. My dad was shocked as well, but being the science guy he spent the night reading online about homosexuality, had a debate with me about why PLUs have not been eliminated by natural selection since we don't reproduce, asked me about how gay guys have sex, then decided he can be cool with me being gay (although still sad cos no-one to carry his bloodline) and tried to talk to my mom.

 

Anyway, after my ex's experience, I came to realise that maybe my smooth-sailing coming out journey was not because of just me being a brave bitch, but there is an actual mechanism/pattern (exposure eliminates homophobia) that everyone can get to experience once they gather enough to courage to make the first baby step. From there, there will be snowball effect, things will get easier. You get the idea.

 

And the article I shared above, once again, reaffirmed my belief.

 

My belief might only be true in this day and age, among young people thanks to the many privileges we have and take for granted. But still, not bad right? Getting to be your true, authentic selves, at the same time contributing to the LGBTQ+ movement. As long as the movement gets to spread, everyone in the community will eventually benefit from it. One thing to note though, a movement is caused by collective efforts of individuals, not the activists - the activists are there to guide you only. So you, yes, you, must contribute to the best of your abilities as well. By contributing, you also help yourself out. Coming out to just one friend means you are already less lonely. Coming out to more friends means you are getting the acceptance you deserve. etc etc

 

Anyway, to conclude this long dreadful post, homophobia can be shut down by simply letting ourselves be known. I come with this belief and I hope to empower youths who are coming to this forum, and also anyone of any age who needs a little empowerment. Empower them enough so they can first accept themselves. Then maybe one beautiful day they might gather enough courage to come out and fight for themselves.

 

Words only no use, there will be actions. Give me some time to familiarise myself with Mod tools before I implement some ideas to do what I just said.

 

Anyway, debate away. Your sharing is much appreciated and will help me get a better, less one-dimensional picture.

 

Thank you!

 

There will always be homophobia lah...please lah, gays discriminate against gays are so common, gays does not believe in hardcore christian believe that gays can turn straight but believe straight can turn gay.

 

Want to get rid of homophobia? Lets start with the homos discriminating against homos 1st 

[BlinkOnce]

7 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

There will always be homophobia lah...please lah, gays discriminate against gays are so common, gays does not believe in hardcore christian believe that gays can turn straight but believe straight can turn gay.

 

Want to get rid of homophobia? Lets start with the homos discriminating against homos 1st 

I agree that what you said might very well be facts. But maintaining a positive, idealist outlook is still better than giving up.

Also, "internal" discrimination among gays, I think the nature of it is different? Like the examples you stated can also be classified as religion and belief discrimination.

[Guest Guest]

Just now, BlinkOnce said:

I agree that what you said might very well be facts. But maintaining a positive, idealist outlook is still better than giving up.

Also, "internal" discrimination among gays, I think the nature of it is different? Like the examples you stated can also be classified as religion and belief discrimination.

Excuses. If gays discriminate gays, how do u expect others to all embrace gays.

[BlinkOnce]

1 minute ago, Guest Guest said:

Excuses. If gays discriminate gays, how do u expect others to all embrace gays.

Gays discriminating gays, all these, can straight people actually see it? I don't think so. Fortunately, it remains within our circle. It doesn't affect the mindsets and choices of straight people.

Straight people discriminate among themselves too, for reasons such as religion and belief as well.

We face many types and forms of discrimination, so how about we look at them separately and solve them separately?

 

P.S. do you think if it will be good to have a separate thread on gays discriminating gays? So you can go there and maybe share your own story and thoughts

[Guest Guest]

25 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

Gays discriminating gays, all these, can straight people actually see it? I don't think so. Fortunately, it remains within our circle. It doesn't affect the mindsets and choices of straight people.

Straight people discriminate among themselves too, for reasons such as religion and belief as well.

We face many types and forms of discrimination, so how about we look at them separately and solve them separately?

 

P.S. do you think if it will be good to have a separate thread on gays discriminating gays? So you can go there and maybe share your own story and thoughts

You talk about end of homophobia. Homos should homos not clean up their act 1st otherwise how do you expect to end homophobia when some homos have homophobia of some kind.

[LeanMature]

25 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

Gays discriminating gays, all these, can straight people actually see it? I don't think so. Fortunately, it remains within our circle. It doesn't affect the mindsets and choices of straight people.

Straight people discriminate among themselves too, for reasons such as religion and belief as well.

We face many types and forms of discrimination, so how about we look at them separately and solve them separately?

 

P.S. do you think if it will be good to have a separate thread on gays discriminating gays? So you can go there and maybe share your own story and thoughts

 

One point to note is homophobes can be straight or gay.  Can be religious or non-religious.  

[FattChoy]

How do you define homophobia?  

 

I don't like to have anything to do with lesbians,  queers and transsexuals, as well as women in general.   Feminity is something I wanna be 50 ft away from. When I dance in a gay club, I find it weird to see that 2 or 3 ladies dancing wildly amongst 150 gay men and when their flinging hair brushes against me, I find it a turn-off. 

 

I also am lucky I've never worked for a female superior. I don't wanna hang out with fem guys and hear their gossipy chatters. I choose not to watch Captain Marvel because it doesn't align with my values.  I love Rambo : Last Blood, John Wick and the Titan Games. I only root for male contestants in reality shows, be it masterchef or survivor.  In Masterchef, I enjoy listening to Chef Aaron and Joe rather than that blonde girl judge. (I really don't know her name)

 

In the apps, anyone with long hair and feminine, thin face and body, I will politely turn down. 

 

Some lady friends say im a misogynist but I don't hate women,  I just don't like to be around them or even think of them.  My mind has no space for feminine people.  I appreciate my freedom of choice and as long as I'm not hurting anyone, I believe it's my right to choose who I socialise with and what my time is spent on or follow on social media.  My Twitter and Tumblr are 100% masculine men.

 

And I find it weird that there's guys how keep pushing their cross-gender agenda to our faces, like guys wearing skirt in public or the women's movement against this bullshit thing called toxic masculinity, or the raging non-binary movement, or the third sex thingy or insisting to be addressed as 'they'.  It's not my thing, and I don't think they should be censured, but I don't celebrate it and I just push it aside.  I don't think I'm discriminating,  I just wanna focus my time, waking hours and effort on people my type,which are masculine men.   As a result, I don't see you, feminine people.  You're not in my 'give-a-damn spectrum'

Edited September 27, 2019 by FattChoy

[fab]

Their own ignorance and hatred.

[IkuTube]

11 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

 

Disclaimer:

First and foremost, my apology for the poorly thought-out title.

 

 

There is always two sides to a coin and, definitely, this thread will open up (hopefully with good) discussion.

 

I like the way the title of this thread is phrased.  The whole content is definitely TS' personal view. 

 

While there will be black and white in life, the phrase "because we let them be?" (with that question mark) makes such a topic debatable.

 

[BlinkOnce]

6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

You talk about end of homophobia. Homos should homos not clean up their act 1st otherwise how do you expect to end homophobia when some homos have homophobia of some kind.

 

6 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

One point to note is homophobes can be straight or gay.  Can be religious or non-religious.  

After your comments, I actually went to do a bit of "homework" and realised that my definition of homophobia is quite narrow. Let me put a disclaimer in my original post. Thank you! And I think your points deserve another topic on their own.

[BlinkOnce]

6 hours ago, FattChoy said:

How do you define homophobia?  

 

I don't like to have anything to do with lesbians,  queers and transsexuals, as well as women in general.   Feminity is something I wanna be 50 ft away from. When I dance in a gay club, I find it weird to see that 2 or 3 ladies dancing wildly amongst 150 gay men and when their flinging hair brushes against me, I find it a turn-off. 

 

I also am lucky I've never worked for a female superior. I don't wanna hang out with fem guys and hear their gossipy chatters. I choose not to watch Captain Marvel because it doesn't align with my values.  I love Rambo : Last Blood, John Wick and the Titan Games. I only root for male contestants in reality shows, be it masterchef or survivor.  In Masterchef, I enjoy listening to Chef Aaron and Joe rather than that blonde girl judge. (I really don't know her name)

 

In the apps, anyone with long hair and feminine, thin face and body, I will politely turn down. 

 

Some lady friends say im a misogynist but I don't hate women,  I just don't like to be around them or even think of them.  My mind has no space for feminine people.  I appreciate my freedom of choice and as long as I'm not hurting anyone, I believe it's my right to choose who I socialise with and what my time is spent on or follow on social media.  My Twitter and Tumblr are 100% masculine men.

 

And I find it weird that there's guys how keep pushing their cross-gender agenda to our faces, like guys wearing skirt in public or the women's movement against this bullshit thing called toxic masculinity, or the raging non-binary movement, or the third sex thingy or insisting to be addressed as 'they'.  It's not my thing, and I don't think they should be censured, but I don't celebrate it and I just push it aside.  I don't think I'm discriminating,  I just wanna focus my time, waking hours and effort on people my type,which are masculine men.   As a result, I don't see you, feminine people.  You're not in my 'give-a-damn spectrum'

I think as long as you pay your respect and don't hurt them emotionally/physically, then it's fine. Not everyone has the capacity to be kind and like all types of people. Everyone's opinions and views should be respected, including yours.

Although your sharing might be off-topic, thank you anyway! Keep it going

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

 

Anyway, to conclude this long dreadful post, homophobia can be shut down by simply letting ourselves be known. I come with this belief and I hope to empower youths who are coming to this forum, and also anyone of any age who needs a little empowerment. Empower them enough so they can first accept themselves. Then maybe one beautiful day they might gather enough courage to come out and fight for themselves.

 

 

I don't see anything dreadful in your post, instead I experience it like a breath of fresh air.   It is keeping me thinking because it is an original idea.

 

An idea whose time has come.  It would have been impractical a hundred years ago.  But thanks to some courageous pioneers, the world is now safer for us LGBTs. And thinking about, I find that notable people in the sports, arts, politics who have come out are not faring badly.  A great example is the US politician Pete Buttigieg, a gay in same-sex marriage who is gaining popularity among the democratic candidates for US president.  No one criticizes (or dares to criticize) his sexual orientation.

 

A personal example I find in my Aikido martial-art group.  One would think that "martial art" is something for the macho-straights.  I already practice it without being a "macho straight", but recently two guys joined the group and they are openly gay and... married!  They don't act any different from other men there, and,  amazingly, no one treats them any different. It would be the same if they were from some foreign country instead of Americans.  In our group we are very cosmopolitan, and now also sexual-orientation diverse 

 

I have been preaching Aikido here for some time:  "If you are gay and you don't feel sufficiently manly but weak and vulnerable,  then Aikido is the sport for you!".  It is not violent, not dangerous, it does not require muscular strength,  it is a natural developer of self confidence, it is sociable and it is based on a very positive philosophy. We practice with each other, and it builds good platonic male and female bonding, friendship in the diversity.  My teacher is a kind middle-aged lady. She looks small and fragile, yet she is so tough and skillful that she can put down a strong big guy, even more than one at a time. 

 

I look forward to the empowerment of LGBTQs.  In my country, women and Blacks are steadily being empowered... because they are visible!  It could be the same for gays.

[Guest Guest]

I am a different Guest from the other Guest(s) above. I'm usually mainly coasting around, trolling around, talking cock and singing song on this forum. However, this thread has 2 things which has made me worried enough for me to post here, and in a more somber manner. 

 

The first thing which is worrying me is the indication that the new Moderator seems to have an agenda in taking up this role, regardless if this personal agenda is going to sit well with the entire BW population or not. If this had been just another registered forum member wanting to start a thread and pushing for "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda, it'd have been just another day in BW.

 

However, here in this case, the new Mod has started his own new Moderator account, instead of using his existing one as the Moderator account. And this separation of his personal account and that of his Moderator account is fine because, I guess, the Moderator may also wanna clown around the forum a bit "after the BW Moderation office hours". However, what worries me is how he has selected the Moderator account to push for this "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda, when he could have started this thread using his personal and existing account.

 

So, what is wrong with that, you may ask? 

 

What happens if a Policeman (in real life, or on the forum) signs up (or asked to serve) and he starts pushing for his own motives, instead of doing what he is supposed to be doing? Instead of performing his "fiduciary" duties with proper and due diligence. he goes around abusing his authority and use it against anyone who dare goes against him there. As we can already see in the Singapore context, people in power can abuse it easily.  So why was this thread started using the Moderator's account, instead of his existing and personal Member account? Has the line between his personal needs and his duties on this forum already been blurred so quickly? Wow, this is scary ....

 

The second thing which worries me is this "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda. I do admit that the Singapore social context has changed significantly, and people are much more accepting towards gays than many years before. In fact, as an indicator of how conservative Singapore was, the country has even banned Bee Gees and Kitaro from performing in Singapore simply because they have (drum roll, please)..... long hair. And guess what, this ban was only lifted in the 1990s. So, it is indeed easier for many people to come out of the closet the way you have, as compared to that many years ago. 

 

However, even with all the liberalization of ideals nowadays, there are still some serious pockets of homophobic people in the society and their workplace, and many of them sits in high ranking levels. By forcing everyone to come out, you are putting them in a very very precarious position, in which they may become stigmatized and ostracized in their work and living capacity. These people who comes out may be passed over for promotions, and families may kick them out, and customers may not even deal with their businesses any more. Can you live with that? As far as I have seen here in Singapore, nobody ever got promoted simply because they are gay, and neither have I seen anyone getting offered a bigger piece of chicken at the dining table after coming out to their parents.  

 

While your personal experience had been a good read, I hope we are all mature enough to know whether we should or should not come out of the closets ourselves. I truly hope your ex is doing fine now, for he seems to have been dragged out of the closet by you and for you, and the two of you are no longer together anymore now. 

[BlinkOnce]

59 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

The first thing which is worrying me is the indication that the new Moderator seems to have an agenda in taking up this role, regardless if this personal agenda is going to sit well with the entire BW population or not. If this had been just another registered forum member wanting to start a thread and pushing for "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda, it'd have been just another day in BW.

What you have pointed out are also my worries taking up the role:

- Yes, I have an "agenda". But no, it's not "ALL GAYS COME OUT". I was recruited to cater to the recent influx of youths in this forum. Come with young age are confusion, self-denial, powerlessness. Being a more privileged gay guy, I hope I can empower them with self-acceptance with my Mod "power" - creating topics and block toxic personal attacks to those at risk on this forum. I am well aware that coming out is a very very sensitive topic to many PLUs, so I hope to inspire, not force. Especially after my ex's instance. Although he is doing very well now, much better than me somehow, but I still feel that it was hasty and I should not have been the reason for his coming out. I thank you for reminding me about how sensitive this topic is, and I should be careful with my approach.

- My personal agenda will sit well with the entire BW community or not, I don't know and I don't think I should care. I was recruited to bring in diversity. If my agenda doesn't have any audience, it will naturally die down.

- Abuse of power is also one my worries. However, don't worry. I'm under many other Mods who maintain a completely neutral stand. They won't let me wreck havoc to the forum that they worked so hard for. In addition, members with concerns like you, will be a constant reminder for me. So keep it going! I really appreciate your constructive comment.

- Using Mod account to post puts me in a position where I need to be much more neutral in attitudes and behaviours compared to using my personal account. I practiced that with my personal account, but the standards are higher with a Mod account. This is what I do.

 

59 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

By forcing everyone to come out, you are putting them in a very very precarious position, in which they may become stigmatized and ostracized in their work and living capacity. These people who comes out may be passed over for promotions, and families may kick them out, and customers may not even deal with their businesses any more. Can you live with that? As far as I have seen here in Singapore, nobody ever got promoted simply because they are gay, and neither have I seen anyone getting offered a bigger piece of chicken at the dining table after coming out to their parents.

I share the same view that coming out at work is extremely risky and often unnecessary. I also believe in coming out when it is suitable - when the person has financial stability to support himself should his family be toxic to the point of kicking him out. I planned my coming out in the same manner.

And of course, no one gets better treatment by coming out. Being homosexual should not be the defining characteristic of an individual.

However, I have never met anyone who regretted coming out. They might face paramount struggles, but in the end, they are happy being their authentic selves. Being too closeted might be depressing for many gay guys. Hundreds of friends to chat with on online platforms like BW can't beat a friend in real life who supports you for who you truly are. We all have the needs to connect to other people, and hiding too deep in the closet will hinder that and deprive you of your own happiness. You don't need to come out to the whole world, to your colleagues, to your families. Just one friend to confide with might just be enough. 

 

[BlinkOnce]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

An idea whose time has come

woo I love this!

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, BlinkOnce said:

I think as long as you pay your respect and don't hurt them emotionally/physically, then it's fine. Not everyone has the capacity to be kind and like all types of people. Everyone's opinions and views should be respected, including yours.

Although your sharing might be off-topic, thank you anyway! Keep it going

Did you hear what you just said? If a straight said the same thing its homophobia...but when a homo said he wants nothing to do with lesbians, trans. So if a leabian or trans group want to fight for equal rights..he will object or stay neutral??? What you mean by you are ok with it as long as he pay respect and dont hurt them emo/phy????

 

You see the double standards you displayed? 

[BlinkOnce]

31 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Did you hear what you just said? If a straight said the same thing its homophobia...but when a homo said he wants nothing to do with lesbians, trans. So if a leabian or trans group want to fight for equal rights..he will object or stay neutral??? What you mean by you are ok with it as long as he pay respect and dont hurt them emo/phy????

 

You see the double standards you displayed? 

If a straight person does not want to accept us and wants nothing to do with us, but practises enough respect and does not hurt/discriminate us, how is it not okay? If you don't want straight people to force their heterosexual ideals onto us, then you first need to learn to hold the urge to force your own ideals onto them. Mutual respect.

Also, how does FattChoy's disinterest in women, lesbians and trans translate to his objection/staying neutral when les/trans groups fight for equal rights? Fatal logical mistake right there.

I know the "masc4masc" thing has been constantly being called out , but in his post I didn't see any nasty discriminating remarks. I only see him being maybe too straightforward for some people's liking. There is always a fine line between preferences and discrimination. In ambiguous cases like this, I choose to believe people have good intention. It is tiring when everything is interpreted negatively.

[Dart]

I do not see homophobic is to be entirely blamed on gays. To a certain extend, in neutral Singapore, this tendency is  due to lack of knowledge in homosexuality and understanding towards gays. Here, people would have a chance to use their humanistic reasoning,  perhaps coupled with research and exposure are able to accommodate our sexual orientation, like in @BlinkOnce 's case. 

Nevertheless, people from religious backgrounds in which the religion preaches hate and intolerance, will almost certainly live with this hate. They have been indoctrinated from a young, tender age. If they happen to be gay, they would always live in dilemma. 

Seems surprising, homophobic also stems from gays. These are individualistic, carnal natured and rejected individuals. They have no qualms betraying their fellow gays and pose a greater threat to the community.

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Dart

[Guest Tony Chen]

From my experience , I realise that homophobia raises its ugly head often BEHIND the gay person, in the form of rumours , mocking & bitching - especially in the work place. I don’t believe for a moment that “all is fine” as long you expose your real self to those around you. Perhaps you are less sensitive to what goes on behind you - or you simply don’t care (which comes with practice and time). This is more so when the gay person is more effeminate, which makes him an easier target. 

Sometimes the form of homophobia can be more subtle than you realise , for example, getting passed over for a job promotion. 

[Guest Guest]

10 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

However, I have never met anyone who regretted coming out. They might face paramount struggles, but in the end, they are happy being their authentic selves. Being too closeted might be depressing for many gay guys. Hundreds of friends to chat with on online platforms like BW can't beat a friend in real life who supports you for who you truly are. We all have the needs to connect to other people, and hiding too deep in the closet will hinder that and deprive you of your own happiness. You don't need to come out to the whole world, to your colleagues, to your families. Just one friend to confide with might just be enough. 

 

It seems like we need to fine tune the definition of "coming out" here, since your definition of "coming out" as having "one friend to confide with" seems to be quite different from that of mine, and perhaps that of the general public too. Furthermore, it seems that you yourself subscribed to the general description of "coming out" in your previous posts, when you said you were not happy with the fact that your ex "came out" to you alone, but you wanted him to come out of the closet to even more people.   

 

Furthermore, after claiming that you ""have never met anyone who regretted coming out", you yourself followed on to say that "They might face paramount struggles". So how do you know that some of these guys did not even survive the "paramount struggles" and went back into their closets with the deepest regrets after getting the brunt of the stick? Not many people are as privileged as you are, and I think your viewpoint of the world is quite tiny if you can claim that you "have never met anyone who regretted coming out". It not only take the moral courage to come out to people, it also take financial and emotional independence to do so. And you are encouraging people to be stepping on very very thin ice here, regardless if they are ready or not, and some of them may not even be ready for the fall into the deep cold waters. It is one thing to try changing the toxic environment and encouraging people to be more accepting to homosexuality, but it is a complete ball game to tell people to come out into an existing toxic environment. Your youthful drive to make a difference in the world is admirable, but your immature recklessness is frightening enough for me to write a post on this.

 

And now, to top it off, it is bad enough for people in the local context like you not to see our current environment as it is, but it is even worse to have people from out of this country trying to goad people into doing things which might be more suitable in OTHER countries. It's almost like trying to get some freshwater fishes to live in the sea. This is one of the reasons why Steve has been so vehemently trolled on this forum. For instance, for those statements below ....

 

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

An idea whose time has come.  It would have been impractical a hundred years ago.  But thanks to some courageous pioneers, the world is now safer for us LGBTs. And thinking about, I find that notable people in the sports, arts, politics who have come out are not faring badly.  A great example is the US politician Pete Buttigieg, a gay in same-sex marriage who is gaining popularity among the democratic candidates for US president.  No one criticizes (or dares to criticize) his sexual orientation.

 

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

In my country, women and Blacks are steadily being empowered... because they are visible!  It could be the same for gays.

 

... did they come with caveats of stories pertaining to how their country struggled for it first, eg Stonewall riots and Martin Luther King's speech? Did he list down how many people were arrested in the riots and how Martin Luther King was assassinated? No, he didn't. He just openly and blatantly tell us about his current glorious environment without telling us all the sad stories behind. To make it worse, his post was given a "Like" (an endorsement?) by a Moderator too. I think I might go ahead and do what another Member has been doing, i.e. create more accounts just to downvote those posts.  

 

I personally feel that the country is moving in the right directions of getting people to be more accepting of gays right now, even though I feel that this is moving much slowly than how it should be (and maybe it might even be because of people like me too). However, I think it is important for gays to look before they leap out of the closet so blindly.   

[BlinkOnce]

Your previous post was on point and I'm grateful for that. I acknowledge that you have a rather pessimistic outlook on this matter. However, I feel like this time you are a little inflexible and pushing too hard for your own arguments, hence making many logical and comprehension mistakes.

I embrace opinions from different points of views, but for me to listen, maybe brush up on your logic? Let me unleash my inner Olenna Tyrell who is screaming to get out.

 

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Furthermore, it seems that you yourself subscribed to the general description of "coming out" in your previous posts, when you said you were not happy with the fact that your ex "came out" to you alone, but you wanted him to come out of the closet to even more people.

- If it wasn't clear, my "coming out" was a journey of 8 years. And I think of it as a journey. I'm not completely out yet and I'm rather content with what I have done so far. I don't intend to be open at my workplace (although I slipped it out to a close colleague and some others know me from school days). My goal is to come out to my close relatives, because I'm reaching family-making age soon, and it's gonna create tension. 

- That is my story of many many privileges and I hope my story inspires. Did I for once force any readers to come out? Since when a story to inspire equals to forcing people to follow? I even stated that my main goal is to help confused youth achieve self-acceptance. Why are you trying so stubbornly to frame me into something I didn't do?

- I don't see how coming out to your own romantic partner counts. And me talking my romantic partner into coming out does not translate to me forcing my BW readers to come out. Even if I didn't acknowledge that I was wrong being the reason for my ex's coming out, it still does not mean I am forcing anyone on here BW to come out. Your logic is just weird in this one

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

So how do you know that some of these guys did not even survive the "paramount struggles" and went back into their closets with the deepest regrets after getting the brunt of the stick? Not many people are as privileged as you are, and I think your viewpoint of the world is quite tiny if you can claim that you "have never met anyone who regretted coming out".

- It sounds like a nice tactic for counter-argument, but is it logically possible to come back into the closet once you are out? If you can just simply go back into the closet, coming out won't be so intimidating.

- Since you questioned how tiny my viewpoint is, let me take the chance to also examine how big your view point is: you claimed that you have never met anyone who gets better treatment for coming out (and I kind of agree to it), how are you sure that there are no-one who actually does? Many companies are building a diverse workplace and some take rather rigid measures to achieve that such as preferential treatments to minor groups. I know for sure that sometimes unqualified women get hired so the company gets gender balance - in the US and Singapore as well. Gay rights have not gained as significant momentum as women rights yet, so we don't see that as often, but I can give you examples: Pink Businesses in Singapore - The Jock Shop for instance. Andrew Christian in the US. 

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

It not only take the moral courage to come out to people, it also take financial and emotional independence to do so

Agree, I said it and quoting you to reiterate it.

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

And you are encouraging people to be stepping on very very thin ice here, regardless if they are ready or not, and some of them may not even be ready for the fall into the deep cold waters

You used the word "encourage" with a forceful meaning. Check the thesaurus perhaps?

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

And now, to top it off, it is bad enough for people in the local context like you not to see our current environment as it is, but it is even worse to have people from out of this country trying to goad people into doing things which might be more suitable in OTHER countries.

- What is wrong with telling stories and examples of a more progressive country? Although there are many more illogical points in this part of your comment, I will let Steve come and have some fun and reply you.

- Personally, I feel like this is full of personal hatred. Luckily you didn't spew any personal attacks, otherwise I would take my first chance to exercise my Mod "power" to warn you.

- Steve often says off-topic and non politically correct stuff or even offensive stuff that upset members on here, be it his personality or cultural background. It is a fact. But another fact is that he has constructive comments too. Don't automatically interpret his comments in a negative manner. That is narrow-minded and rather mean. Be kind and fair.

[BlinkOnce]

7 hours ago, Guest Tony Chen said:

From my experience , I realise that homophobia raises its ugly head often BEHIND the gay person, in the form of rumours , mocking & bitching - especially in the work place. I don’t believe for a moment that “all is fine” as long you expose your real self to those around you. Perhaps you are less sensitive to what goes on behind you - or you simply don’t care (which comes with practice and time). This is more so when the gay person is more effeminate, which makes him an easier target. 

Sometimes the form of homophobia can be more subtle than you realise , for example, getting passed over for a job promotion. 

yeah I agree. Coming out at workplace often brings more harm than good. 

[Crispy96]

8 hours ago, Dart said:

I do not see homophobic is to be entirely blamed on gays. To a certain extend, in neutral Singapore, this tendency is  due to lack of knowledge in homosexuality and understanding towards gays. Here, people would have a chance to use their humanistic reasoning,  perhaps coupled with research and exposure are able to accommodate our sexual orientation, like in @BlinkOnce 's case. 

Nevertheless, people from religious backgrounds in which the religion preaches hate and intolerance, will almost certainly live with this hate. They have been indoctrinated from a young, tender age. If they happen to be gay, they would always live in dilemma. 

Seems surprising, homophobic also stems from gays. These are individualistic, carnal natured and rejected individuals. They have no qualms betraying their fellow gays and pose a greater threat to the community.

 

If you are referring to Indonesia, I feel you. It pains me everytime I read the news.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Crispy96

[Guest Tony Chen]

With respect to “people have no regrets coming out” - firstly, we will never know how others truly think . Secondly , for Most people, there is no room for regrets in their lives anyway. They’ve done it and they will have to live with whatever consequences and “paramount struggles”. Even if they feel regret when negative things happen as a result , they will still say they don’t regret, because there is no turning back in the first place. So protect the ego , and say “no regrets”. It always make him look stronger. Most people don’t want to look weak when given a choice. 

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

And you are encouraging people to be stepping on very very thin ice here, regardless if they are ready or not, and some of them may not even be ready for the fall into the deep cold waters

 

23 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

You used the word "encourage" with a forceful meaning. Check the thesaurus perhaps?

 

 

On the statement above, go take a good look at the beginning of your own thread, the relevant parts are reposted here:

 

On 9/27/2019 at 6:07 AM, BlinkOnce said:

Disclaimer:

First and foremost, my apology for the poorly thought-out title. I think it might sound like victim-blaming. But my intention is to encourage each and every PLU, whom this post reaches out to, to be braver, stand up for themselves

 

On 9/27/2019 at 6:07 AM, BlinkOnce said:

homophobia can be shut down by simply letting ourselves be known

 

... and after I have pointed out my worries to you, a Moderator, are now spewing your own personal hatred by disrespectfully telling me to "Check the thesaurus", when you are the one retreating from your own words stating your intentions "to encourage each and every PLU" by "letting ourselves be known"?? 

 

 

46 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

- What is wrong with telling stories and examples of a more progressive country?

 

It's wrong when you only let people see half the picture and the one which you want people to see, instead of letting them have the full disclosure so that people can make up their own mind on whether they are ready to take that path on their own or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

- Personally, I feel like this is full of personal hatred. Luckily you didn't spew any personal attacks, otherwise I would take my first chance to exercise my Mod "power" to warn you.

 

I have no clue what type of "HATE" you detected in my previous posts, since I have no causes of "HATE" but lots of room for "WORRY". But yes, with the completely unnecessary threat above, thank you for confirming my first worry stated below ...

 

14 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Instead of performing his "fiduciary" duties with proper and due diligence. he goes around abusing his authority and use it against anyone who dare goes against him there.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

 

Oh.... and one more thing to BlinkOnce, practice what you preached below, please. 

 

1 hour ago, BlinkOnce said:

Don't automatically interpret his (people's) comments in a negative manner. That is narrow-minded and rather mean. Be kind and fair.

 

[Guest 忍无可忍，无须再忍]

I have tried to adapt myself to homophobia for the following reasons:

 

1)  Our government is not putting a concerted effort to stop it (unlike Xenophobia).

2)  Religion leaders are allowed to preach  anti-LGBT

3)   Some of our TOP civil servants are anti-LGBT working with religious leaders against us.

4)   Homophobia is going to stay for many more generations to come, and many people here won't be around then.

5)   As long as there are straight people, we are always the unprotected minority

6)   Even within our LGBT circle (evidence in some bitching in this forum), there existed this nagging homophobia, if you are not his "type" of guy.

7)   How many LGBT stories that ended with "THEY LIVED HAPPILY THEREAFTER"?

 

So ya,  I am tired and fearful of homophobia and decided to be who I am, whether the world likes me or not.  It is my life, my rights and an ownership of myself to  live this one life now or never at all.  If I don't enjoy my life now and kept feeling sad about being gay,  just because other people wanted me to feel sorry and sad about myself,  那这我一身不就是白活了!

 

 

[BlinkOnce]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I have no clue what type of "HATE" you detected in my previous posts, since I have no causes of "HATE" but lots of room for "WORRY". But yes, with the completely unnecessary threat above, thank you for confirming my first worry stated below ...

I meant the hatred towards Steve's post. Your post sounded nice on the surface but you threatened to create spam accounts to down vote his comments. If that is not mean, I don't know what is. 

If you think and hope I need to use my "power" to warn you for having opposing opinions towards my own post, sorry to disappoint.

 

Other than this point which needs clarification, the rest I think I will leave them for other readers to read and have their own thoughts  Personally I think your logic from the second reply onwards is non-existent and you may think likewise, so no point trying to paraphrase the same thing over and over again.

 

I acknowledged your very first post nonetheless, as a voiced out concern rather than trying to frame me into something I didn't commit. Other than that, I'm glad that your engagement to the topic is very good. Keep it up the next time I post. Cheers.

[BlinkOnce]

4 hours ago, Guest Tony Chen said:

With respect to “people have no regrets coming out” - firstly, we will never know how others truly think . Secondly , for Most people, there is no room for regrets in their lives anyway. They’ve done it and they will have to live with whatever consequences and “paramount struggles”. Even if they feel regret when negative things happen as a result , they will still say they don’t regret, because there is no turning back in the first place. So protect the ego , and say “no regrets”. It always make him look stronger. Most people don’t want to look weak when given a choice. 

This might be true. But because we don't know what they think, they might also truly mean what they say, right? They make the efforts to bring positivity to us, we should acknowledge it. Stay positive!

[BlinkOnce]

3 hours ago, Guest 忍无可忍，无须再忍 said:

I have tried to adapt myself to homophobia for the following reasons:

 

1)  Our government is not putting a concerted effort to stop it (unlike Xenophobia).

2)  Religion leaders are allowed to preach  anti-LGBT

3)   Some of our TOP civil servants are anti-LGBT working with religious leaders against us.

4)   Homophobia is going to stay for many more generations to come, and many people here won't be around then.

5)   As long as there are straight people, we are always the unprotected minority

6)   Even within our LGBT circle (evidence in some bitching in this forum), there existed this nagging homophobia, if you are not his "type" of guy.

7)   How many LGBT stories that ended with "THEY LIVED HAPPILY THEREAFTER"?

 

So ya,  I am tired and fearful of homophobia and decided to be who I am, whether the world likes me or not.  It is my life, my rights and an ownership of myself to  live this one life now or never at all.  If I don't enjoy my life now and kept feeling sad about being gay,  just because other people wanted me to feel sorry and sad about myself,  那这我一身不就是白活了!

 

 

Glad to hear that you have achieved self-acceptance (this is what I interpreted from your sharing). Although your outlook is pessimistic, as long as you are happy, I feel happy too, as a fellow gay man

[Guest Guest]

51 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

I meant the hatred towards Steve's post. Your post sounded nice on the surface but you threatened to create spam accounts to down vote his comments. If that is not mean, I don't know what is. 

If you think and hope I need to use my "power" to warn you for having opposing opinions towards my own post, sorry to disappoint.

 

Other than this point which needs clarification, the rest I think I will leave them for other readers to read and have their own thoughts  Personally I think your logic from the second reply onwards is non-existent and you may think likewise, so no point trying to paraphrase the same thing over and over again.

 

I acknowledged your very first post nonetheless, as a voiced out concern rather than trying to frame me into something I didn't commit. Other than that, I'm glad that your engagement to the topic is very good. Keep it up the next time I post. Cheers.

 

47 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

This might be true. But because we don't know what they think, they might also truly mean what they say, right? They make the efforts to bring positivity to us, we should acknowledge it. Stay positive!

 

 

 

On your response above, I guess I will borrow your own words from your own previous posts and say the following to you too. 

 

5 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

I feel like this time you are a little inflexible and pushing too hard for your own arguments, hence making many logical and comprehension mistakes.

 

55 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

I think I will leave them for other readers to read and have their own thoughts

 

[FattChoy]

Would BlinkOnce please propose the definition of homophobia and the homophobic?  Cos everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.  

 

It would also help the discussion to set e definition of what is not homophobia.    

Edited September 28, 2019 by FattChoy

[Guest Guest]

2 hours ago, FattChoy said:

Would BlinkOnce please propose the definition of homophobia and the homophobic?  Cos everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.  

 

It would also help the discussion to set e definition of what is not homophobia.    

I would very much like what BlinkOnce have to say about gays having homophobia...in another thread someone created that he hates muscular guys who acts girlie in the gym. Stop homophobia in our own community 1st.

[FattChoy]

5 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I would very much like what BlinkOnce have to say about gays having homophobia...in another thread someone created that he hates muscular guys who acts girlie in the gym. Stop homophobia in our own community 1st.

 

That's not homophobia.  Did the TS say that the girly men were homo?  Anyway, I agree with what BlinkOnce said - You have fatal logic error.  

Edited September 28, 2019 by FattChoy

[Guest Guest]

9 minutes ago, FattChoy said:

 

That's not homophobia.  Did the TS say that the girly men were homo?  Anyway, I agree with what BlinkOnce said - You have fatal logic error.  

I say yoi and him uave double standards. If a straight man create and say such stuff, its homophobia but a gay says so, create excuses...

[Steve5380]

11 hours ago, BlinkOnce said:

 

- What is wrong with telling stories and examples of a more progressive country? Although there are many more illogical points in this part of your comment, I will let Steve come and have some fun and reply you.

- Personally, I feel like this is full of personal hatred. Luckily you didn't spew any personal attacks, otherwise I would take my first chance to exercise my Mod "power" to warn you.

- Steve often says off-topic and non politically correct stuff or even offensive stuff that upset members on here, be it his personality or cultural background. It is a fact. But another fact is that he has constructive comments too. Don't automatically interpret his comments in a negative manner. That is narrow-minded and rather mean. Be kind and fair.

 

 

I have plenty of fun in my life without the need to have it with Guest Guest, but I will replay to him nonetheless. I don't see his need to personally hate me, but I prefer that he deletes my "likes" rather than he stabs me in the back.  At least the Internet offers physical protection.

 

Although it is not my purpose some of my posting can be taken as offensive.  I don't feel constrained by political correctness, and I may briefly go off topic.  Like I earlier peddled Aikido.   I do this as a help to the weakness and insecurity that often comes with being gay, a vulnerability that can be overcome with defensive skills.  No pitiful gay will be bullied when he can break the bully's bones   My two grandsons are too young to know if they are gay, but if so I will see that they cultivate (and enjoy) a martial art.

 

 

On 9/27/2019 at 7:02 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

I am a different Guest from the other Guest(s) above. I'm usually mainly coasting around, trolling around, talking cock and singing song on this forum. However, this thread has 2 things which has made me worried enough for me to post here, and in a more somber manner. 

 

The first thing which is worrying me is the indication that the new Moderator seems to have an agenda in taking up this role, regardless if this personal agenda is going to sit well with the entire BW population or not. If this had been just another registered forum member wanting to start a thread and pushing for "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda, it'd have been just another day in BW.

 

However, here in this case, the new Mod has started his own new Moderator account, instead of using his existing one as the Moderator account. And this separation of his personal account and that of his Moderator account is fine because, I guess, the Moderator may also wanna clown around the forum a bit "after the BW Moderation office hours". However, what worries me is how he has selected the Moderator account to push for this "ALL GAYS COME OUT" agenda, when he could have started this thread using his personal and existing account.

 

  

Have you heard of the "principle of Clean Hands"?  According to it, the Judicial System (at least in America) will grant the recourse of legal action only if the plaintiff has not himself violated the law in the matter of his claim.   Here you complain that the new Mod has posted as such instead of doing it like a regular member,  while you...  you are posting in the hiding anonymity that allows you to circumvent any responsibility for what you post.  Who knows what obscure insecurities makes you do this,  but ... isn't it ten times worse than posting as a member who can be identified, held accountable,  assigned some respectability?

 

Aren't moderators also members in the first place?  Members who offer valuable services to all of us?  Shouldn't they have the same privileges and restrictions?  If you look at the posts of BlinkOnce they have the same field "Report post".  So if you are dissatisfied with it you can do so.  ( it must be especially embarrassing for a moderator to be reported!)

 

 

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

And now, to top it off, it is bad enough for people in the local context like you not to see our current environment as it is, but it is even worse to have people from out of this country trying to goad people into doing things which might be more suitable in OTHER countries. It's almost like trying to get some freshwater fishes to live in the sea. This is one of the reasons why Steve has been so vehemently trolled on this forum. For instance, for those statements below ....

 

 

 

... did they come with caveats of stories pertaining to how their country struggled for it first, eg Stonewall riots and Martin Luther King's speech? Did he list down how many people were arrested in the riots and how Martin Luther King was assassinated? No, he didn't. He just openly and blatantly tell us about his current glorious environment without telling us all the sad stories behind. To make it worse, his post was given a "Like" (an endorsement?) by a Moderator too. I think I might go ahead and do what another Member has been doing, i.e. create more accounts just to downvote those posts.  

 

I personally feel that the country is moving in the right directions of getting people to be more accepting of gays right now, even though I feel that this is moving much slowly than how it should be (and maybe it might even be because of people like me too). 

 

 

Amazing how the obscurity of your anonymity allows you to reveal your resentment towards me!  And all this for what ???

 

If I would feel such resentment for every person in BW who criticizes America,  my face would be so wrinkled that not even botox could help  .  Instead I often agree with the criticisms. It is a fact that an outsider can get a better picture, make a better evaluation than an insider.  This goes in personal matters too.

 

But at least you recognize that you personally are not helping the situation.  This is fine, no body forces you to do so.  And if you are not part of the solution,  at least try to not be part of the problem.  

.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Steve5380

[singalion]

As much as I initially intended contributing to this discussion I decided against it. My reasons are the following:

- I don't mind if Moderators initiate threads but in my humble view Moderators should refrain from posting their personal views on the topic.

- I see this as essential to uphold impartiality if debates become heated. How shall a Moderator remain neutral if he interferred to the discussion itself?

- Plenty of discussions at this Forum become quite emotional, the Moderator would then position himself in a bad way avoiding to take sides. I don't think a Moderator would be still in a neutral position if he partakes to the discussions.

- I personally think refraining from joining into the discussions is crucial to guarantee best overview on the Forum and to make neutral decisions. Not joining into the discussions is the sacrifice a Moderator has to make to take up the position.

[Guest Guest]

6 minutes ago, singalion said:

As much as I initially intended contributing to this discussion I decided against it. My reasons are the following:

- I don't mind if Moderators initiate threads but in my humble view Moderators should refrain from posting their personal views on the topic.

- I see this as essential to uphold impartiality if debates become heated. How shall a Moderator remain neutral if he interferred to the discussion itself?

- Plenty of discussions at this Forum become quite emotional, the Moderator would then position himself in a bad way avoiding to take sides. I don't think a Moderator would be still in a neutral position if he partakes to the discussions.

- I personally think refraining from joining into the discussions is crucial to guarantee best overview on the Forum and to make neutral decisions. Not joining into the discussions is the sacrifice a Moderator has to make to take up the position.

 

Suggesting that mods are to be just robot?  Just to issue warning and ban?

 

When they initiate a thread and not to say something?  I see few Mods initiate threads and they say something too leh.

[Guest Guest]

5 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Suggesting that mods are to be just robot?  Just to issue warning and ban?

 

That wasn't what he said at all. He made this clear in his first point. 

 

5 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

When they initiate a thread and not to say something?  I see few Mods initiate threads and they say something too leh.

 

He again explained his stance already in all his next few points. 

 

I agree with @singalion's point of view. He has put it across sharp and sweet. 

[BlinkOnce]

35 minutes ago, singalion said:

As much as I initially intended contributing to this discussion I decided against it. My reasons are the following:

- I don't mind if Moderators initiate threads but in my humble view Moderators should refrain from posting their personal views on the topic.

- I see this as essential to uphold impartiality if debates become heated. How shall a Moderator remain neutral if he interferred to the discussion itself?

- Plenty of discussions at this Forum become quite emotional, the Moderator would then position himself in a bad way avoiding to take sides. I don't think a Moderator would be still in a neutral position if he partakes to the discussions.

- I personally think refraining from joining into the discussions is crucial to guarantee best overview on the Forum and to make neutral decisions. Not joining into the discussions is the sacrifice a Moderator has to make to take up the position.

Initially, when I applied for the role, I thought so too. But after the interview, and also some online search: Role of forum Moderators should be to promote interaction.

Promoting interaction can mean keeping conversations healthy, free of personal attacks, toxic comments and reinforcing forum's rules and guidelines.

Many of the Mods here choose to stay somewhat quiet and neutral, that is just their personal style.

I chose a different style. The previous Mod, Glyph, was quite opinionated too.

As long as we abide to our Code of Conduct and Forum's Rules and Guideline, we shall do whatever we think suitable to keep the forum lively. Members can hate me or love me, I'm grateful all the same because traffic is what defines my performance.

So yeah, I hope I clarified your concern. Might be strange to you and many others at first, but I hope you can join me in the discussion eventually. I am confident I can serve you some serious mental stimulation via debating

[Guest Guest]

 

5 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I would very much like what BlinkOnce have to say about gays having homophobia...in another thread someone created that he hates muscular guys who acts girlie in the gym. Stop homophobia in our own community 1st.

 

4 hours ago, FattChoy said:

 

That's not homophobia.  Did the TS say that the girly men were homo?  Anyway, I agree with what BlinkOnce said - You have fatal logic error.  

 

 

I'm not the Guest whom you responded to, but I think you are the one having the fatal logic error here, Don't forget, it was you yourself who said "everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.". So why can't the Guest to whom you responded think that it is a form of homophobia when people hates girly men?  Why should he be the one with fatal logic error?  Who are you to judge that his idea of homophobia is incorrect, when you yourself needed to go ask around for the definition? Where's YOUR logic? 

 

7 hours ago, FattChoy said:

Would BlinkOnce please propose the definition of homophobia and the homophobic?  Cos everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.  

 

It would also help the discussion to set e definition of what is not homophobia.    

 

[BlinkOnce]

7 hours ago, FattChoy said:

Would BlinkOnce please propose the definition of homophobia and the homophobic?  Cos everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.  

 

It would also help the discussion to set e definition of what is not homophobia.    

Homophobia is actually well-defined, I'm not in position to propose its definition: Homophobia is the range of negative attitudes and feelings towards homosexuality or people who are perceived to be homosexual.

So, I interpret it as: if homosexuality of the victim is the reason for discrimination and/or violence, then it is homophobia. Definition of homosexual: sexually attracted to people of own's sex.

Let's take FattChoy's case as an examples:

He said he doesn't want anything to do women, lesbians and trans, because he doesn't like femininity. Femininity is not homosexuality. It is rather a characteristic of a subset of male homosexual population. Conclusion: He is not a homophobe. Very discriminating, but not homophobic.

END OF HOMOPHOBIA's DEFINITION.

 

Regarding discrimination within the gay community, follows is my personal view. Disclaimer: This topic is very sensitive. My view on this might not be well-informed. This is also why I have not created a thread on this yet although many have mentioned it. You are welcome to debate, but keep it brief since it is slightly off-topic. Also, save the personal attacks to yourself. Criticise my logic in my arguments instead of me, thank you! If I don't respond to you, read the disclaimer again.

 

Personally, I think that as long as FattChoy treats women, les and trans with due respect, does not hurt them emotionally/physically, then it is not discriminating. It is just his preference. My judgement based strictly on his claims. 

If he rejects someone feminine in sexual contexts, stating his reason of disinterest in femininity - that is rude, borderline discriminating. If the person calls out his "discrimination" to guilt trip him into having sexual interactions, then that is quite a dick move. FattChoy can simply says he is not keen, to be polite.

Discrimination and preference differ by a very fine line. We can remind each other kindly of how we express our preference to make the community healthier. Everyone has their own "market", so don't let rejection wear down your confidence.

Cheers

[Guest Guest]

When the previous young mod was mentioned, it is worrying to feel that guests who posted here who can also be registered members are not in favour of younger mod?

 

The attack on this new mod is getting personal.  This is worrying indeed.

[Steve5380]

23 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

 

I'm not the Guest whom you responded to, but I think you are the one having the fatal logic error here, Don't forget, it was you yourself who said "everyone has their idea of what homophobia is.". So why can't the Guest to whom you responded think that it is a form of homophobia when people hates girly men?  Why should he be the one with fatal logic error?  Who are you to judge that his idea of homophobia is incorrect, when you yourself needed to go ask around for the definition? Where's YOUR logic? 

 

 

 

LOL! Isn't this getting increasingly hilarious? One Guest Guest claims that he is not the Guest Guest responded to.   Who knows how many different Guest Guest-s  post too?   Your choice of lacking identity means that your posts don't have any staying power.  You can be ANYBODY.  Yes, even the famous "Dirty Aunty", or one of the several "Disclose Yourself".

 

You value your posts so little that you want them to float around or go up into thin air lacking any identity? 

[BlinkOnce]

7 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

When the previous young mod was mentioned, it is worrying to feel that guests who posted here who can also be registered members are not in favour of younger mod?

 

The attack on this new mod is getting personal.  This is worrying indeed.

Okay, your name is also Guest Guest, sweated me out trying to identify which one is which one via your IP, LOL.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if their attacks are due to ageism. If they are not, good. If they are, good too, because by displaying another type of discrimination, their arguments will lose credits.

I will choose to give them the benefit of doubt. After all, discrimination is not something terrifying to me, just fight lor.

 

 

[Steve5380]

23 minutes ago, BlinkOnce said:

Homophobia is actually well-defined, I'm not in position to propose its definition: Homophobia is the range of negative attitudes and feelings towards homosexuality or people who are perceived to be homosexual.

So, I interpret it as: if homosexuality of the victim is the reason for discrimination and/or violence, then it is homophobia. Definition of homosexual: sexually attracted to people of own's sex.

Let's take FattChoy's case as an examples:

He said he doesn't want anything to do women, lesbians and trans, because he doesn't like femininity. Femininity is not homosexuality. It is rather a characteristic of a subset of male homosexual population. Conclusion: He is not a homophobe. Very discriminating, but not homophobic.

END OF HOMOPHOBIA's DEFINITION.

 

 

Will you allow me to make a try at these definitions?

 

Homophobia is a FEELING of disgust towards gays.

To be homophobic is to ACT (physically or in words) in ways that specifically harm gays.

 

Racism is a FEELING of discrimination based on race.

To be racist is to ACT (physically or in words) in ways that specifically harm a particular race.

 

Discrimination gets a bad rap,  but in reality it is natural and necessary. We have the right to discriminate about hundreds of things.  I hate to eat okra and I love chocolate.

The problem arises only when we let our discrimination affect negatively other people.

[BlinkOnce]

14 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

LOL! Isn't this getting increasingly hilarious? One Guest Guest claims that he is not the Guest Guest responded to.   Who knows how many different Guest Guest-s  post too?   Your choice of lacking identity means that your posts don't have any staying power.  You can be ANYBODY.  Yes, even the famous "Dirty Aunty", or one of the several "Disclose Yourself".

 

You value your posts so little that you want them to float around or go up into thin air lacking any identity? 

Till this point I'm very confused. There are at least 3 IPs who sound the same....