Relationship advise please? Inter-generational

January 19, 2022

I kind of need a ‘Dear Thelma’ section and hoping you guys could help and share some advise.

I am early 40s and currently in a relationship with a 27yo guy. Things are good but I always have some hesitations to his intentions. We have known each other for 6+ months (I always just wanted a group of gay guys who can hang out off and on for drinks), dated for a month and got into a relationship.

Background - We knew each other from WeChat People Nearby feature. It was always a hello you’re nearby, Woof! And the likes. Very casual and vanilla. This was during the lockdown. Once economy started to open up later in 2021, I suggested to meet over drinks and actually planned in a group setting (which he said sure if it is my treat), without hesitation I agreed as I don’t mind paying as long I can afford.

The 1st time we met it was with his colleague (whom I know from a separate sexual encounter - they only knew about the arrangement at the last minute and purely coincidental) and my best bud. We continually hanging out and majority of the time I am the one paying together with his colleague (during Covid-19, I had a big bump in my salary and his colleague was working full time still) and had no issues about it. Even when he was hungry, he would order food or snack but never offered to pay but I didn’t mind paying. This has been continually the arrangement even when he has now a fully reinstated salary.

Fast forward a little, both him and his colleague does have a crush on me. I did have a sexual encounter earlier in the year with his colleague but since he has a bf, nothing went beyond sex and friends. But once they both were at a work event, they drank too much and some slip of words aggravated one another and both pouring their wanting to be in a relationship with me. Drama, I know and can’t believe that a 33 and 27 yo’s wanting to be with a 40ish yo man. Few weeks of drama and I decided to date the 27yo against my friends advise and my apprehension to it.

To add, in December, my ex who is also 27yo came into the picture wanting to get back with me too and complicate matters even more. But that’s a separate drama.

Now 27yo would always say he is poor, no money and our common friend (his colleague) would also back up that he goes frugal extreme to keep up with his bills etc during lockdown. So sympathy comes into play and compassion.

Now that the economy is going back to normal, we have plans to rent an apartment together (split cost and I would only go over every other night); gotten him a new iPhone (split cost again) and for his b’day this month, gotten him an Apple Watch. (These all within 1.5months period).

I always keep telling him I am not a Sugar Daddy and he hates being called a Sugar Baby and keep stressing he is not. Always tells him, I don’t mind paying as long I can afford and continue building my savings, once I say I can’t afford, either he chips in or we just live on ‘love’.

My issue and hesitations keeps creeping in on and off …
a. Am I being taken advantage?
b. He doesn’t find me physically attractive, he said feelings evolved only after getting to know me but he didn’t dare approach and act on it as he believed he has nothing to offer. (This came to point as his colleague was showering with gifts and actually hosted a b’day party for me in Nov).
c. He keeps sharing his nudes over the phone, which I love (and he is an exhibitionist) but he never once did ask for my nudes nor pictures nor nothing.
c. Generation gap with IG, FB, even when we go out together, his focus on himself and IG’able stuff but never focus on both of us together.

Am I overthinking? My self-confidence sinking all time low?

January 19, 2022

Maybe ask yourself what are you attracted to him in the first place. Mostly physical or more than that?

Of cos no one will claim they are a ‘sugar baby’. But some younger guys do like the idea of having someone more financially stable and older to take care of things. They are not exactly ‘sugar baby’ per se but they do expect you to contribute more financially and they dun mind being ‘pampered’. Well…no right or wrong, every situation is different. It depends on whether you can accept it if there is some truth to your situation. Long term wise, the younger partner’s financial situation might improve but that is still an unknown for now.

I don’t think you are overthinking. I think it’s normal to have such thoughts. At the end of the day, just enjoy the dating process and the sex (i suppose there is) while you get to understand each other more. If it works out, good. If it doesn’t, then so be it and move on.

January 19, 2022

Thanks for your comforting words .. Attraction, well he is good looking and gets chased by others where he doesn't want people to focus only on physical (I keep going yeah, right at 27yo???) so it's a balance of both. I wished he was older to narrow the gap and make the deal sweeter but I accepted as it was dealt?

Accepting the arrangement right now, possible but I am thinking long-term is it sustainable?

Another aspect too would be that when I was 27yo, I wanted to be wild and experiment and hmm have an ego as huge watermelons flirting and eventually rejecting. 😉 Not sure guys are more matured now and cant judge him for the way I think???

And I also hold the thought, somethings, people just need to know .. I can't be telling everything that upsets/annoys me when it comes to commitment to a bf? But I did warn him over and over again, if he cheats, immediate end.

IkuTube · January 19, 2022

Dear UltraSheer,

(Replying with respect to you. It is not meant to cast on your good loving heart.)

When you are constantly in doubt, you will not be happy. Doubts trap you and it heightens the uncertain feeling. At worst, it makes you to distrust your 27yo partner. This behaviour will stop you to cement anything positive. It will not help you to find peace with the one month (your dating and relationship) of knowing him.

Your hesitation stems from an internal conflict with what you want for yourself, of something that you can live with. When you used the term 'Inter-generational' (in your heading), do you have issue with it? What is your take to be in relationship with a guy much younger than you?

Perhaps, when you take away the label, your communication with him changes too. You will be able to talk to him adult to adult. Label impedes and it can stigmatize. Perhaps, right now, your communication with him has always been a parent to a child? Get him to open up and get him to share with you as how he manages his finances.

Share with him that you need him to take charge too, where he participates to cost share non expensive expenses. Get him to pay for drinks or pay his snacks. Tell him that you have issues when someone takes advantage on your financial freedom. Tell him that you want to feel pampered too. Importantly, you appreciate shared commitment in a relationship where all things are equal.

I do not doubt your kind and gracious acts to pay things and buy things for him. But, have you asked yourself why are you doing it, especially when you are constantly filled with hesitation? With respect, is it about wanting to win him over? Only when you can own your actions, your thoughts conspire.

My question - when you already think/know that he has financial problem, why is there a plan 'to rent an apartment together' with 'split cost'? You said, 'he goes frugal extreme to keep up with his bills etc'. Are you not adding on to his difficulty?

Obviously you treasure financial independence. It is important by you and it is a good mindset. Because it is important to you, you seek others to have the same value too - this is very natural.

You are probably right to use the word 'drama' in your post. Perhaps, all these dramas are adding on to your dilemma. They cloud your judgement. They play on with your past memories, 'I wanted to be wild and experiment and hmm have an ego as huge watermelons flirting and eventually rejecting'. While they add on to your self esteem but they pinch on your self confidence at the same time.

You need to Sit, Inhale, Think on what you truly want. It is always a good feeling to be wooed but you need to sieve what makes you you. Only you can find the answers to your (a) to (d). Listen to you heart.

I do not think you are over thinking. It is a natural feeling to ponder when one is experiencing and confronted with different values in life. You are trying to make things right for you, by you. However, do not think too much as thinking, in itself, is a burden.

Wishing you peace, UltraSheer.

doncoin · January 19, 2022

On 1/18/2022 at 8:57 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

My issue and hesitations keeps creeping in on and off …
a. Am I being taken advantage?

Let's face it. To some degree, you are taken advantage of, but again, you cannot take advantage of the willing. It is clear that financially, your guy enjoys the perks of being with you. Getting some Apple tech, and potentially a place to live, is an attractive proposition, especially when he has so little to offer other than his youth. As long as you know what you are getting into and the transactional arrangement, it can be a pleasant experience for you. Since you are in a financially advantageous position, just be aware of your limits, which I think you do, and establish the boundaries with him.

A good friend of mine who was in his late 40s dated a much younger guy a couple of years ago. One time I asked him about the financial arrangements and he said something along the lines of if the guy wants something, if it is below $500, he will write it off since he can afford it, but anything over $500, he will chip in that amount, and the guy has to figure out the rest himself. I thought that was a good arrangement. It's like having parents to pay for the downpayment for a flat, and the rest you manage on your own.

On 1/18/2022 at 8:57 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

b. He doesn’t find me physically attractive, he said feelings evolved only after getting to know me but he didn’t dare approach and act on it as he believed he has nothing to offer. (This came to point as his colleague was showering with gifts and actually hosted a b’day party for me in Nov).
c. He keeps sharing his nudes over the phone, which I love (and he is an exhibitionist) but he never once did ask for my nudes nor pictures nor nothing.
c. Generation gap with IG, FB, even when we go out together, his focus on himself and IG’able stuff but never focus on both of us together.

Am I overthinking? My self-confidence sinking all time low?

OK. If he does not find you attractive, then we have a problem. You want to be sexually attracted to the guy you are having sex with. The unfortunate reality in such situations is that even if you are having sex with that person, you are going through the motions, and keeping your eyes closed and fantasizing about someone else or a porn clip you saw. At 27, he wants sexual attraction. Recall when you were 27 years old. Fuck the whole "his feelings evolved" and he is right on one thing. He truly has nothing to offer you. You deserved better.

Sharing his nudes with you etc. does not mean he is not sharing with others. The fact that he did not ask for yours etc. shows you that he has zero attraction to you. You are not jerk off material to him. Sorry to be harsh. He is the classic, worship me, and he will give you an ounce of his attention. Otherwise, do not bother him. Narcissistic behavior. The relationship will get toxic.

Social media is not a generation gap thing. It is how you use it. Based on your words, it is clear that he is a narcissist. He cares about his followers on IG more than he cares about you. You can try to tell him put his phone away when you are together, but it will only create resentment on his side. The reality is that he needs the validation of his followers more than you.

In a relationship, the only person's opinion who should matter is the guy you are in love with. I am sorry to say that all the red flags are there for you that you have gotten with a narcissist. It is so obvious given your post that he is not making you feel good about yourself. Your partner/bf should make you feel better about yourself. His focus is on him, and what he can get away with from you. So far, he has an iPhone, Apple watch, meals etc. You can delude yourself thinking that yes, you can afford it, but for how he has been treating you, does he deserve it?

If your guy is not into you physically, then he is not into you. You can join a gym, hire a trainer, get tone up etc. but do it for you. Not him.

January 19, 2022

On 1/20/2022 at 12:03 AM, doncoin said:

Let's face it. To some degree, you are taken advantage of, but again, you cannot take advantage of the willing. It is clear that financially, your guy enjoys the perks of being with you. Getting some Apple tech, and potentially a place to live, is an attractive proposition, especially when he has so little to offer other than his youth. As long as you know what you are getting into and the transactional arrangement, it can be a pleasant experience for you. Since you are in a financially advantageous position, just be aware of your limits, which I think you do, and establish the boundaries with him.

A good friend of mine who was in his late 40s dated a much younger guy a couple of years ago. One time I asked him about the financial arrangements and he said something along the lines of if the guy wants something, if it is below $500, he will write it off since he can afford it, but anything over $500, he will chip in that amount, and the guy has to figure out the rest himself. I thought that was a good arrangement. It's like having parents to pay for the downpayment for a flat, and the rest you manage on your own.

OK. If he does not find you attractive, then we have a problem. You want to be sexually attracted to the guy you are having sex with. The unfortunate reality in such situations is that even if you are having sex with that person, you are going through the motions, and keeping your eyes closed and fantasizing about someone else or a porn clip you saw. At 27, he wants sexual attraction. Recall when you were 27 years old. Fuck the whole "his feelings evolved" and he is right on one thing. He truly has nothing to offer you. You deserved better.

Sharing his nudes with you etc. does not mean he is not sharing with others. The fact that he did not ask for yours etc. shows you that he has zero attraction to you. You are not jerk off material to him. Sorry to be harsh. He is the classic, worship me, and he will give you an ounce of his attention. Otherwise, do not bother him. Narcissistic behavior. The relationship will get toxic.

Social media is not a generation gap thing. It is how you use it. Based on your words, it is clear that he is a narcissist. He cares about his followers on IG more than he cares about you. You can try to tell him put his phone away when you are together, but it will only create resentment on his side. The reality is that he needs the validation of his followers more than you.

In a relationship, the only person's opinion who should matter is the guy you are in love with. I am sorry to say that all the red flags are there for you that you have gotten with a narcissist. It is so obvious given your post that he is not making you feel good about yourself. Your partner/bf should make you feel better about yourself. His focus is on him, and what he can get away with from you. So far, he has an iPhone, Apple watch, meals etc. You can delude yourself thinking that yes, you can afford it, but for how he has been treating you, does he deserve it?

If your guy is not into you physically, then he is not into you. You can join a gym, hire a trainer, get tone up etc. but do it for you. Not him.

This is a classic example how a person's reputation is ruined. It is not fair to pass judgement on the young fella when he is not here to tell his side of the story. Problems in life are always a two sided coin.

Though narcissism has different types of personality disorder, we cannot take TS words conclusively and judged the young guy to be one. Example, TS said - c. He keeps sharing his nudes over the phone, which I love (and he is an exhibitionist) but he never once did ask for my nudes nor pictures nor nothing. Maybe TS told him to send cos he loves seeing it?

January 20, 2022

On 1/19/2022 at 9:57 AM, Guest UltraSheer said:

I kind of need a ‘Dear Thelma’ section and hoping you guys could help and share some advise.

I am early 40s and currently in a relationship with a 27yo guy. Things are good but I always have some hesitations to his intentions. We have known each other for 6+ months (I always just wanted a group of gay guys who can hang out off and on for drinks), dated for a month and got into a relationship.

Background - We knew each other from WeChat People Nearby feature. It was always a hello you’re nearby, Woof! And the likes. Very casual and vanilla. This was during the lockdown. Once economy started to open up later in 2021, I suggested to meet over drinks and actually planned in a group setting (which he said sure if it is my treat), without hesitation I agreed as I don’t mind paying as long I can afford.

The 1st time we met it was with his colleague (whom I know from a separate sexual encounter - they only knew about the arrangement at the last minute and purely coincidental) and my best bud. We continually hanging out and majority of the time I am the one paying together with his colleague (during Covid-19, I had a big bump in my salary and his colleague was working full time still) and had no issues about it. Even when he was hungry, he would order food or snack but never offered to pay but I didn’t mind paying. This has been continually the arrangement even when he has now a fully reinstated salary.

Fast forward a little, both him and his colleague does have a crush on me. I did have a sexual encounter earlier in the year with his colleague but since he has a bf, nothing went beyond sex and friends. But once they both were at a work event, they drank too much and some slip of words aggravated one another and both pouring their wanting to be in a relationship with me. Drama, I know and can’t believe that a 33 and 27 yo’s wanting to be with a 40ish yo man. Few weeks of drama and I decided to date the 27yo against my friends advise and my apprehension to it.

To add, in December, my ex who is also 27yo came into the picture wanting to get back with me too and complicate matters even more. But that’s a separate drama.

Now 27yo would always say he is poor, no money and our common friend (his colleague) would also back up that he goes frugal extreme to keep up with his bills etc during lockdown. So sympathy comes into play and compassion.

Now that the economy is going back to normal, we have plans to rent an apartment together (split cost and I would only go over every other night); gotten him a new iPhone (split cost again) and for his b’day this month, gotten him an Apple Watch. (These all within 1.5months period).

I always keep telling him I am not a Sugar Daddy and he hates being called a Sugar Baby and keep stressing he is not. Always tells him, I don’t mind paying as long I can afford and continue building my savings, once I say I can’t afford, either he chips in or we just live on ‘love’.

My issue and hesitations keeps creeping in on and off …
a. Am I being taken advantage?
b. He doesn’t find me physically attractive, he said feelings evolved only after getting to know me but he didn’t dare approach and act on it as he believed he has nothing to offer. (This came to point as his colleague was showering with gifts and actually hosted a b’day party for me in Nov).
c. He keeps sharing his nudes over the phone, which I love (and he is an exhibitionist) but he never once did ask for my nudes nor pictures nor nothing.
c. Generation gap with IG, FB, even when we go out together, his focus on himself and IG’able stuff but never focus on both of us together.

Am I overthinking? My self-confidence sinking all time low?

so many questions… like why get an apartment and then only go every other night? Why so much drama (which you seem to be contributing to and enjoying) when you are a middle aged man? How can you not see that you are all taking advantage of each other?

Honestly, it doesn’t sound like a relationship at all. A month or six weeks and you are buying iPhones (ok, split cost but still) and renting apartments? And for what? You don’t mention anywhere love or enjoyment for this ‘relationship’. From your post, it sounds like you know you need a reality check, so hopefully this response helps you see things more clearly: stop being led by ego or small head.

January 20, 2022

hmmm....interesting topic but what is your interest? Some people have fetish for young sweet meat, other prefer a more tough aged meat or medium cooked range. At the age of 40s, you should have already establised your palate.

January 20, 2022

Gentlemen ... Thanks. I appreciate all your feedback and thoughts. There is nothing to defend nor protect, coming here anonymously and sought out a post like this is to seek advise and opinions which eventually make me ponder on what I should do. Eventually, it is between 27yo and me to decide. It'll be much easier for us to talk over beers, but let try me fill up the gap, if any.

First, I sincerely appreciate @IkuTube , @doncoin and @guest wtf for the thought provoking questions and comments which I know I have to answer. It has always been difficult for me to express emotions. I know I am angry or grumpy or sad but at times I don't know WHY I am feeling such or that maybe I just need a piece of chocolate to tide me over OR I am just shameful/shy to even admit myself why I am feeling such. Much more to tell another why I am feeling as such.

Now like those responded (sincerely Thanks) asked about the apartment arrangement. Well he is currently staying rent-free at one of his bosses properties. Condition of this arrangement was until full pay reinstated. Hence now his salary is fully reinstated, he would need to find his own place. Why not live with me, some would ask, I do live with my family (joy of being single to support the parents and nieces). He tried staying with his girl-friends but that fell through and so I suggested getting an apartment (and hey it can be cheap to get a whole unit with aircond if you aren't that picky). Moreover my idea has always been to get a low-cost and just deck out the interior - practical. But he decided on something much more livable inside and out and hence the split cost. Why don't I just live with him? There again comes my family who always like a close knit family. Intention here is to make it easier for both of us to hang-out and needn't to always be on the go to do something if we wanna meet each other.

In my own personal life, I am rarely firm on things, I can go either way and be coaxed to do something I don't want to do as with the right company and people, it can be fun.

I know physical attraction is pertinent in any relationship, but plausibly it is not instant but takes time to build? (rationalizing here and I know how I think and feel is not always how others feel the same) e.g. Disney's Beauty and the Beast? LOL or or or urgh ... that 60's song 'If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, get an ugly girl to marry you' (wrong context but just popped up in my mind). It's actually funny that when I first met him, I just thought to myself, ehh.. out of my league and wouldn't pursue more besides a drinking-buddy and his colleague too told him, I won't be his type, which he agreed at that point in time. When he did first say he liked me, I totally dismissed him off until his tiff with the said colleague, it got me thinking more. Eventually when dating, I did ask him, why he is attracted to me and he responded that he doesn't really have a 'type' and after hanging out and found out I am nice and caring guy he was eventually attracted. I added, now if I didn't have money (no means I am rich) and nice and caring guy who is 42yo, would he still be attracted - his response was quite funny and I guess 'sincere' - he said he don't know and can't answer. I guess being financially independent, sweetened the deal for him. I even pressed further to say, we're friends - if you need help, I would help. Don't need to get into a relationship for it, but he was insistent he really wants me.

As we talk about sex, sex seems fine and natural but most of the time we do it after drinking (and no, it's not that he is drunk that we can have sex, but seems to be the only convenient time to do it - I hope) and most of the time he is the one initiating it. I respect him with this regard as I still have this iffiniess of 'are you sure?'.

Before all this came along, I can say I am a self confident person and I know I won't be everybody's cup of tea but I still do have my niche market. Possibly I compare to my prior X who was affectionate, considerate, caring, and we have alot to talk about and not so self-absorb with IG, the type of guy who continually love marking every time we meet with pics etc. And now, I am meeting another 27yo who is on the other end of the spectrum.

End of the day, ya this guy does make me lack my self confidence and worst, I don't want to put restrictions on his lifestyle (as long it is not infidelity) and just wish he would have a sense of decency to also 'feel' for me - I keep convincing myself, people show love in many different ways - some through words and some through actions and some emotionally.

My problem would be :

a. yeah I don't know what I want AND need to know what I want.

b. yeah I want to continue be the nice guy BUT now I feel I cannot also ignore my own feelings.

Right now, I am just trying to lay low and not meet him a little but without trying to stir up trouble and leaving him hanging. My another problem which @Guest 4610y said ... He isn't here to defend himself. And whenever I meet him and he expresses some behaviors/traits he has, I would always go, hey - no problem, but after I am alone, I keep pondering it. Shits to be me.

Will keep you all updated ... Thank you.

January 20, 2022

If u love someone money is not a issue. As long u have hit yr ideal saving spare cash to help him out to improve his lifestyle is good.A person will die and u can't bring your Singapore dollar to the other world.Or u rather let the government take control over your money and donate to their high salary Minister

mith · January 20, 2022

it still puzzles me why these young (25, 26, 27) good looking guys (in the general sense) are not working, and living within their means! if they cannot afford an apple watch then live without one!... in a way, they are using their greatest attributes (youth) as a leverage for a better material life.

no judgement here really, everyone, boys or girls, gay or straight, young or mature like to be pampered, but the only criteria to want and be in a relationship has to be attraction and affection mutually, not one sided. other criteria of money and comfort should be secondary.

and @ultrasheer, unless you are a multi millionaire with a un-depletable goldhill, maybe this relationship will last till your end day, otherwise with only an income of a everyday working salaried men, hmmm..... apple watch are going to have new versions and will only get more expensive....

i have met a few of such handsome young men who i am not in their league (looks and age wise), but has initiated to go steady with me! very soon ,the wanting comes... hawker food is not classy enough, taking buses is a drag, iphone is the best, a luxury bag and shoes etc etc... the list goes on but none that he's willing to pay, and most times they are more engross on their social media posting these new collections than on me!

really, i am comfy at this point of my life because i worked and planned and saved... not because my father drop me a gold mine! even if money is secondary to me, why should i sell my emotion short too, right? i cut these boys off, no matter how young and good looking they are, how huge their cocks are, i want a shared life, not paid for someone else life!

Edited January 20, 2022 by mith

Doorbell · January 20, 2022

Such an interesting read.

I think it is hard to say what’s right or wrong when you are in a slightly more complicated r/s, especially if you yourself is not entirely sure what you want. I have a friend who was in a committed relationship for nearly a decade before eventually broke off due to the similar situation u are in, minus off the age gap.

I think the dynamic of the power grip is interesting. Your bf, being younger and more attractive, seems to hold certain power to your self worth but you also have a power grip on him from the financial and maybe emotional aspect. This makes it difficult to weigh things out whether one of you is being taken advantage of.

Again, I think you both are the ones going through it and should know your own feelings best. Don’t ever ignore your gut feeling. The best thing is to give each other some time and space and think about it and then talk it out. It’s supposed to be a long term r/s, so any feelings or problems and things that irk each other should be communicated. Ultimately, both of you need to be frank with each other and ask yourself what do you want from this r/s? Do you want it to be sustainable and find ways to make each other feel better while not compromising the your core values or lifestyle? Or u just want to enjoy the ride and have fun and see how it goes?

I think being so emotionally invested in a r/s it’s hard to sometimes see things clearly. Cause human nature and emotions will complicate matters. That’s why it’s important to have a slight break to get a clearer state of mind and be rational to approach this while still be emotionally invested. I dunno if it makes sense I’m not good with conveying message but I hope you get what I mean

IkuTube · January 20, 2022

Dear UltraSheer,

Every relationship is unique and I respect it when you wrote "Eventually, it is between 27yo and me to decide". With such a statement, you know that you need to take full responsibility on all your thoughts and actions to craft your life, for better or for worse. At its end, UltraSheer, life is constantly about learning and growing.

Do you think you are analyzing things too much? That, you need to intellectualize everything that you are experiencing and with everything there is in front of you? When there is too much of overanalyzing, decision making can paralyze. In general, Life has no single narrative and the acts to intellectualize usually stem from replayed memories. Unfortunately, people do not realize on the extent of these replayed memories that is causing certain behaviours to repeat over and over, good and bad.

One good example of replayed memories, as written by you:

"Before all this came along, I can say I am a self confident person and I know I won't be everybody's cup of tea but I still do have my niche market. Possibly I compare to my prior X who was affectionate, considerate, caring, and we have alot to talk about and not so self-absorb with IG, the type of guy who continually love marking every time we meet with pics etc. And now, I am meeting another 27yo who is on the other end of the spectrum".

You wrote - 'b. yeah I want to continue be the nice guy BUT now I feel I cannot also ignore my own feelings'.

When there is a 'but', confusion spirals. You need to own what you feel in order for the 'I want to continue to be the nice guy' becomes real. Else, you are only existing and not living to make you happy. Feelings make us human and they can make good lessons.

To make things easy for you, where you gain emotional and mental clarity, write down what you want and what is bothering you with this 27yo. When you write, your tendency to intellectualize takes the back seat. You become more proactive with your feelings and embracing/honouring/respecting them.

You may want to share it with him once that is done. When you share, at the same time, you are allowing him to 'defend himself'. Hopefully, this exercise will lessen you from 'I keep pondering' and not harm your self worth with 'Shits to be me'. Here is where you take charge and take care of the situation.

You may also want to ask yourself - what is your fear should you not be the 'nice guy'? Will it make you to be 'out of (his) league' and for him not to like you? It is good to confront fears in order for life to move forward.

I applaud you for sharing your life journey here, UltraSheer.

singalion · January 20, 2022

On 1/19/2022 at 9:57 AM, Guest UltraSheer said:

My issue and hesitations keeps creeping in on and off …
a. Am I being taken advantage?
b. He doesn’t find me physically attractive, he said feelings evolved only after getting to know me but he didn’t dare approach and act on it as he believed he has nothing to offer. (This came to point as his colleague was showering with gifts and actually hosted a b’day party for me in Nov).
c. He keeps sharing his nudes over the phone, which I love (and he is an exhibitionist) but he never once did ask for my nudes nor pictures nor nothing.
c. Generation gap with IG, FB, even when we go out together, his focus on himself and IG’able stuff but never focus on both of us together.

a. That is a difficult question.

The main question to me would be, is there attraction, can you think of this relationship in the long term?

What is there that you like on him?

Is there something that your bf does for you?

This money part is a tricky thing. Best is not to allow a situation where one party pays all for the other.

But I wrote before in a different query: You cannot factor the money in cents. It can be that your bf does cooking, housework, cleaning, groceries and other things.

Every couple handles things differently. Not sure on the actual arrangement.

There are always people who are more self centered than others.

But the thing that decides a relationship is the "give and take".

I dislike putting values to certain contributions to a relationship.

Good would be to voice your disliking of having to foot the bills since he is back to his normal salary.

If your terms on cheating are so strict, from my experience I don't see any long term bonding but your relationship will end sooner or later.

I don't think your position on this is realistic, in particular considering the age difference.

Not really living together might be a killer for a relationship also. At one time your bf might feel just lonely and will ask himself, why am I with him if he is not around.

Actually I am not sure whether you are a butterfly type of guy, but maybe I misinterpret your posts. What I do not really figure out is, if you intend to start a relationship with the other 27y old guy (his colleague) instead of your current bf...

b) If he doesn't find you physically attractive, then I wonder why he has sex with you. I guess there is a misunderstanding, he appreciates you as a person and lover, but sexually you do not 100% fit his type of preferred guy. But are you sufficient boy friend material to him?

c) Just tell him that you are not keen on his nudes. I m not sure what your problem is.

d) He might be a bit narcissistic, but that won't change with another 27y old . Not sure what you are exactly lamenting on.

I would just start to text him seriously.

If you already share costs of his flat (if I understood correctly) I would move in to his place and stay there for most of the time.

Regarding the bill paying part, I would just test him, just don't pay and see his reaction.

If it is just the money that keeps him being nice to you, then that is a sign that you are doomed to split. If you had read other of my advice I am mostly critical on ending relationships too soon, but in your case I would do the tests and take a decision when you experienced his reaction.

You can always give a reason that your parents need more money for a surgery or so, probably, and ask him to either pay his share or take over some of the food etc bills.

Unless your bf has the position of a slave, meaning taking care of household and your other needs, then it might be fair if one person foots the bills, but if he isn't in such a situation, he should offer his share. Surely, we don't know what salary he earns and what the difference is to yours, but in my experience it is the best to never allow such "sugar baby" situations to start at all if you intend to have a long term relationship. It won't work out in the future if this is too one sided.

Just test it, how much he values you in real. (But don't wonder as it might cause unforeseen conflicts).

Edited January 20, 2022 by singalion

Ironrod · January 20, 2022

"we have plans to rent an apartment together (split cost and I would only go over every other night); gotten him a new iPhone (split cost again) and for his b’day this month, gotten him an Apple Watch. (These all within 1.5months period)."

I am 48, so i will be blunt with my thoughts as we are both older guys.

I think throwing money to younger ones (sorry 27 not even consider young in my books) to impress them leads u to current situation. Whatever sugar-coating u do, the fact is you did impress him with money first that's lead to the guy thinking you are "dependable". The saving-grace is, there is sex. What else do u expect? If you want a puppy, find some guys in Uni or something. This guy is 27, he has "seen" the world - so it's expected he knows the rules of the game.

I suggest u just enjoy the moment but remember "先認真的人就輸了“。

doncoin · January 20, 2022

I can see the attractiveness of being a younger guy, and hanging out with them can be fun at times. It is a conversation you Ultrasheer need to have with you guy and lay out the expectations of the relationship. You are not obligated by any means to support him or buy him fancy gifts. If you choose to shower him with gifts, you do it because you love him and want him to have better things in life. and hopefully, he can appreciate the gifts, not so much for the monetary value, but the sentimental value.

I admit as a man in my late 40s, I enjoy having sex with a 20 something. There is something about the perkiness of their butt, and how they are ready to go all over again in bed. It can be intoxicating and fun. But I also know that I probably will find it challenging to have a relationship with a man at that age as we are at different stages in life. On a normal weekday, I like being in bed by 10 watching TV, and going to sleep by 11, so that I can wake up around 6:30 in the morning to go to the gym and work out. I had spent my 20s and 30s heading out to parties night after night, and I don't think I am missing out on anything at this point, but for the 20 something, I would encourage them to go party. I want them to so that I can go to bed.

Living together is a major milestone and it is best to be honest and transparent about your expectations. Otherwise, it will only build up resentment.

Steve5380 · January 20, 2022

On 1/19/2022 at 8:40 PM, Guest Guest said:

If u love someone money is not a issue. As long u have hit yr ideal saving spare cash to help him out to improve his lifestyle is good.A person will die and u can't bring your Singapore dollar to the other world.Or u rather let the government take control over your money and donate to their high salary Minister

Money not being an issue is a nice ideal. But in practice, IT IS an issue, much more important when there is little of it.

Steve5380 · January 20, 2022

On 1/19/2022 at 9:10 PM, mith said:

it still puzzles me why these young (25, 26, 27) good looking guys (in the general sense) are not working, and living within their means! if they cannot afford an apple watch then live without one!... in a way, they are using their greatest attributes (youth) as a leverage for a better material life.

no judgement here really, everyone, boys or girls, gay or straight, young or mature like to be pampered, but the only criteria to want and be in a relationship has to be attraction and affection mutually, not one sided. other criteria of money and comfort should be secondary.

and @ultrasheer, unless you are a multi millionaire with a un-depletable goldhill, maybe this relationship will last till your end day, otherwise with only an income of a everyday working salaried men, hmmm..... apple watch are going to have new versions and will only get more expensive....

i have met a few of such handsome young men who i am not in their league (looks and age wise), but has initiated to go steady with me! very soon ,the wanting comes... hawker food is not classy enough, taking buses is a drag, iphone is the best, a luxury bag and shoes etc etc... the list goes on but none that he's willing to pay, and most times they are more engross on their social media posting these new collections than on me!

really, i am comfy at this point of my life because i worked and planned and saved... not because my father drop me a gold mine! even if money is secondary to me, why should i sell my emotion short too, right? i cut these boys off, no matter how young and good looking they are, how huge their cocks are, i want a shared life, not paid for someone else life!

Very good points! The only justification a 25 y.o. can have not working, is if he is in college pursuing a professional career. And if he makes little money, he should live within his means. My experience is the same as yours: I never inherited a cent! I had a VERY frugal life throughout all my youth until after college I found the employment I held for over 30 years. And even then, I was never a big spender, and in personal life I was NEVER spending the money of others. (I did spend a lot of my employer's money in my work, ha ha)

Steve5380 · January 20, 2022

On 1/19/2022 at 8:02 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Gentlemen ... Thanks. I appreciate all your feedback and thoughts. There is nothing to defend nor protect, coming here anonymously and sought out a post like this is to seek advise and opinions which eventually make me ponder on what I should do. Eventually, it is between 27yo and me to decide. It'll be much easier for us to talk over beers, but let try me fill up the gap, if any.

First, I sincerely appreciate @IkuTube , @doncoin and @guest wtf for the thought provoking questions and comments which I know I have to answer. It has always been difficult for me to express emotions. I know I am angry or grumpy or sad but at times I don't know WHY I am feeling such or that maybe I just need a piece of chocolate to tide me over OR I am just shameful/shy to even admit myself why I am feeling such. Much more to tell another why I am feeling as such.

Now like those responded (sincerely Thanks) asked about the apartment arrangement. Well he is currently staying rent-free at one of his bosses properties. Condition of this arrangement was until full pay reinstated. Hence now his salary is fully reinstated, he would need to find his own place. Why not live with me, some would ask, I do live with my family (joy of being single to support the parents and nieces). He tried staying with his girl-friends but that fell through and so I suggested getting an apartment (and hey it can be cheap to get a whole unit with aircond if you aren't that picky). Moreover my idea has always been to get a low-cost and just deck out the interior - practical. But he decided on something much more livable inside and out and hence the split cost. Why don't I just live with him? There again comes my family who always like a close knit family. Intention here is to make it easier for both of us to hang-out and needn't to always be on the go to do something if we wanna meet each other.

In my own personal life, I am rarely firm on things, I can go either way and be coaxed to do something I don't want to do as with the right company and people, it can be fun.

I know physical attraction is pertinent in any relationship, but plausibly it is not instant but takes time to build? (rationalizing here and I know how I think and feel is not always how others feel the same) e.g. Disney's Beauty and the Beast? LOL or or or urgh ... that 60's song 'If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, get an ugly girl to marry you' (wrong context but just popped up in my mind). It's actually funny that when I first met him, I just thought to myself, ehh.. out of my league and wouldn't pursue more besides a drinking-buddy and his colleague too told him, I won't be his type, which he agreed at that point in time. When he did first say he liked me, I totally dismissed him off until his tiff with the said colleague, it got me thinking more. Eventually when dating, I did ask him, why he is attracted to me and he responded that he doesn't really have a 'type' and after hanging out and found out I am nice and caring guy he was eventually attracted. I added, now if I didn't have money (no means I am rich) and nice and caring guy who is 42yo, would he still be attracted - his response was quite funny and I guess 'sincere' - he said he don't know and can't answer. I guess being financially independent, sweetened the deal for him. I even pressed further to say, we're friends - if you need help, I would help. Don't need to get into a relationship for it, but he was insistent he really wants me.

As we talk about sex, sex seems fine and natural but most of the time we do it after drinking (and no, it's not that he is drunk that we can have sex, but seems to be the only convenient time to do it - I hope) and most of the time he is the one initiating it. I respect him with this regard as I still have this iffiniess of 'are you sure?'.

Before all this came along, I can say I am a self confident person and I know I won't be everybody's cup of tea but I still do have my niche market. Possibly I compare to my prior X who was affectionate, considerate, caring, and we have alot to talk about and not so self-absorb with IG, the type of guy who continually love marking every time we meet with pics etc. And now, I am meeting another 27yo who is on the other end of the spectrum.

End of the day, ya this guy does make me lack my self confidence and worst, I don't want to put restrictions on his lifestyle (as long it is not infidelity) and just wish he would have a sense of decency to also 'feel' for me - I keep convincing myself, people show love in many different ways - some through words and some through actions and some emotionally.

My problem would be :

a. yeah I don't know what I want AND need to know what I want.

b. yeah I want to continue be the nice guy BUT now I feel I cannot also ignore my own feelings.

Right now, I am just trying to lay low and not meet him a little but without trying to stir up trouble and leaving him hanging. My another problem which @Guest 4610y said ... He isn't here to defend himself. And whenever I meet him and he expresses some behaviors/traits he has, I would always go, hey - no problem, but after I am alone, I keep pondering it. Shits to be me.

Will keep you all updated ... Thank you.

UltraSheer, from what you write, you must be a very nice and decent person. You deserve to find a good relationship that will last.

A good relationship does not mean to be partnered with the hottest and most attractive person. Far from this. For sexual attraction it is sufficient that you don't mind having sex with him. And in this, the emotional part helps too. Sexual attraction is just one of many important factors.

Judging from your approximate age and his, you have a difference of about 15 years. This is much less than the time of a generational gap, on average 25.5 years. It does not have to be a relationship where you are the "sugar daddy".

I sense that part of your conflict is that you feel that he is not too attracted to you, and there could be a stronger economical motivation. This is always a possibility. And there is a simple way to find out: notice how much he likes to spend YOUR money, or how frugal he is also with YOUR money.

Excuse my tendency of bringing up my personal life, but I think it can be useful. I met my late bf, the love of my life, in a sleazy bar in Houston. He was not too interested in me, to the point that when I started the conversation he replied that he does not understand much English, to which I continued speaking in Spanish, his native language. I found him attractive, although not among the most attractive for me. After my life as a head of a family, I am used to pay for everything, even now for my rich son. I invited him to drink, and to my surprise he ordered the cheapest drink, some draft beer. (Not the expensive mixed drinks my previous tricks ordered). This gave him a huge initial point with me. During our dating he gave me presents, not cheap for his modest income. He was 20 years younger than me, but I was never his sugar daddy. He did not expect any big expense from me. He introduced me to gay saunas, to which we went together. But after catching me going once by myself, he felt betrayed and he left me. I remember helping him to move to a cheap apartment. But I didn't leave it at that, I went to visit him, apologized and asked him to please come back with me, which he gladly did. From then on all my doubts about him, and his about me, vanished. Although he worked before becoming disabled and then he got disability pay, he lived with me cost free, I paid for all our vacation trips, I bought him a nice car, which he cared for very much and which I still have today for sentimental reasons. I would have done the same had he been a lovely girlfriend. He was always frugal, except with his family in Mexico, to whom he always sent half of his income. I never had any doubt that he loved me as much as I loved him. All this is why I tell you: don't accept to be a "sugar daddy". If you have to be a "daddy" of sorts, leave out the SUGAR. Don't settle for a relationship that is not of true love, but don't mind spending some of your time to find out if it is so, and if it is not, move on.

I also sensed that you dislike your bf to send his pictures to his friends. It is possible that a younger bf is more sexually attracted to others than he is to you. For this, I have two suggestions. 1- A good relationship can be somewhat open. If not overtly, if you can tolerate that he has some occasional sex escapades and he tolerates that you have yours, this helps to make the union long lasting. What conspires against this openness is the fear that ether of you may be seduced out of the relationship. This fear can be more pronounced with the younger one if he feels cared and protected by the older one. 2- In your early 40s you are at the ideal age to start caring for your physical body, improving and then maintaining it for a long indefinite time. This can give a big boost to your self-confidence and dispel ideas that you are "getting too old". I suggest you give a peek into the recent thread "for gays who will be seniors one day". Having a healthy, attractive body does not have to be left to fate, genetics. Anyone who is not disabled can aspire at becoming a model of health, longevity and ultimately, happiness. And then, having the possibility to remain attractive for a long time, you don't need to feel urged into a relationship "before it is too late". In your early 40s, it should not be "before it is too late" at all!

January 21, 2022

Totally agree with you that we should be living within our means. My problem with the 27yo is that I guess I don't ask probing questions. I am in finance and he did once asked me about investment products (doesn't mean I work in a bank, I know about investments though) so I kind of suspect he does have his own pot of cash. His family gets by day by day and hence he is independent not to ask from the family. So he does try and if someone can help him out off and on, shouldn't be an issue.

I have to clarify though that the gifts or partial support was all my idea. Nothing did he ASK but might be hint.

a. the iPhone - well he did mention he dropped his phone that day and screen was cracked but still usable. So mentioned to him ... sweet ... time to get a new phone. But eventually I suggested to get one and I partially share with him and he can put it on my card. Of course, he was accepting of the offer. This was in December.

b. the Apple watch - again my doing. It was his b'day last week and gotten it for him as a gift. I got it not to impress (consciously) but it's a no-brainer if you got an iPhone it's nice to pair with other Apple gadgets to fully utilize their potentials.

In my early days too (when I was young) my bf's did also shower me with gifts - laptop as I was always complaining about mine, an iPod (pre iPhone), iPad. So I know the joy it entails (and yeah they too were just regular salaried employees). They love seeing my face brighten up, and I love the gifts. HOWEVER, being a college student in a foreign country, I was dependent on my parents and did part-time work and I tried my very best to also chip in. Actually to an extent I bough gifts for my bf, till I was also broke and he had to write me a check to get by for the week. haha.. good days.

So you know, just kind of doing what I can do with this 27yo... Just that, at times seem one-sided, so that is my issue. When hanging out/dating him .. I don't sniff a gold-digger and nor would I think I am a sugar-daddy but I guess without labels, actions might be so.

Being a man of routine, my hang-out spots are so predictable and like clock-work at times. So whenever he talks about certain places or what not, I am always open to go and try too. Though some of these prices are like WTF prices for this crap but it's an experience I can say been there, done that and won't be going back.

So maybe I am the culprit with a big mouth that is also getting my own self in this mess....

And totally agree... never sell yourself short.

On 1/20/2022 at 11:10 AM, mith said:

it still puzzles me why these young (25, 26, 27) good looking guys (in the general sense) are not working, and living within their means! if they cannot afford an apple watch then live without one!... in a way, they are using their greatest attributes (youth) as a leverage for a better material life.

no judgement here really, everyone, boys or girls, gay or straight, young or mature like to be pampered, but the only criteria to want and be in a relationship has to be attraction and affection mutually, not one sided. other criteria of money and comfort should be secondary.

and @ultrasheer, unless you are a multi millionaire with a un-depletable goldhill, maybe this relationship will last till your end day, otherwise with only an income of a everyday working salaried men, hmmm..... apple watch are going to have new versions and will only get more expensive....

i have met a few of such handsome young men who i am not in their league (looks and age wise), but has initiated to go steady with me! very soon ,the wanting comes... hawker food is not classy enough, taking buses is a drag, iphone is the best, a luxury bag and shoes etc etc... the list goes on but none that he's willing to pay, and most times they are more engross on their social media posting these new collections than on me!

really, i am comfy at this point of my life because i worked and planned and saved... not because my father drop me a gold mine! even if money is secondary to me, why should i sell my emotion short too, right? i cut these boys off, no matter how young and good looking they are, how huge their cocks are, i want a shared life, not paid for someone else life!

January 21, 2022

Thanks @Doorbell - I might have dived in before checking how deep or shallow the waters are and right now might be struggling without a float. So it's conflicting within myself. Maybe trying to be a pseudo-Martyr and now hitting myself over the head over it.... I know I have hesitations and confusions and I know it is about this relationship but to pin-point exactly what it is, that's the issue. I don't know WTF I want.

Right now when I ask for space, he gets worried ... and I too like a man-child wanna be with him too. Like how @IkuTube says, I do think too much and within myself I rationalize and try to see the good and I am all good and dandy. But then it again creeps the hesitation ever so often now ... Played ding-dong text messaging with him last night. Did tell him I too also need to feel loved and appreciated. He asked me how did my X did it last time and I told him, I won't want to tell him. I just think it's unfair to make someone conform to what I think its affection. He was contented to hear that even in my emo state, I am still in the relationship with him, but when I followed-up with 'am I happy' his answer was just a 'no'. LOL so that's dangling like a good dingleberry.

On 1/20/2022 at 11:14 AM, Doorbell said:

Such an interesting read.

I think it is hard to say what’s right or wrong when you are in a slightly more complicated r/s, especially if you yourself is not entirely sure what you want. I have a friend who was in a committed relationship for nearly a decade before eventually broke off due to the similar situation u are in, minus off the age gap.

I think the dynamic of the power grip is interesting. Your bf, being younger and more attractive, seems to hold certain power to your self worth but you also have a power grip on him from the financial and maybe emotional aspect. This makes it difficult to weigh things out whether one of you is being taken advantage of.

Again, I think you both are the ones going through it and should know your own feelings best. Don’t ever ignore your gut feeling. The best thing is to give each other some time and space and think about it and then talk it out. It’s supposed to be a long term r/s, so any feelings or problems and things that irk each other should be communicated. Ultimately, both of you need to be frank with each other and ask yourself what do you want from this r/s? Do you want it to be sustainable and find ways to make each other feel better while not compromising the your core values or lifestyle? Or u just want to enjoy the ride and have fun and see how it goes?

I think being so emotionally invested in a r/s it’s hard to sometimes see things clearly. Cause human nature and emotions will complicate matters. That’s why it’s important to have a slight break to get a clearer state of mind and be rational to approach this while still be emotionally invested. I dunno if it makes sense I’m not good with conveying message but I hope you get what I mean

January 21, 2022

On 1/21/2022 at 2:11 AM, Steve5380 said:

I bought him a nice car, which he cared for very much and which I still have today for sentimental reasons.

What car did you buy for him

January 21, 2022

Hey @singalion

a. I can see it working in a long-term relationship. It hasn't been put to the 'test' as how lasting it is and really should it be put to the test? This comes about from our conversations etc and his past experience on how he has been 'complacent' (right word?) in his past relationships that he keeps continually remain in it until the other party breaks up with him. True that you know value does not equate to money and all have to play their part. I should really say I dislike it but if he pays (he does offer like twice and paid for one) ... I felt kind of 'bad'. I hate confrontations (am i a wuss?) and hate talking about money. With family, friends etc.. I always just give a general statement of, I will pay and pay ... if I can't afford, then just too bad.

Had to look up what is 'butterfly' type and no, no not at all. I like someone closer to the same age really (or I keep telling myself) but I end up getting younger guys. Not complaining as long we are on the same wavelength. As for his colleague, he wanted to go into a relationship with me, but let's not dilute the issue.

You know as I explained to 27yo .. love is not only feelings but also an obligation to each other. Obligation in the sense of duty to each other. I guess in some ways we all understand that. So an open relationship isn't something I would want to pursue or have. I mean, if I want an open relationship, much 'cheaper' and feasible to just be single and go on Grindr or sauna for some fun when the want arises. I am content being single, I don't NEED to be in a rGigolo for a night is even cheaper. As for cheating, it's a 'no' too... OMG in my last, I was the 'cheating' party and got caught. Tried to make up for it and it just couldn't work. How much we tried to work it out and taking selfies to proof where I am at where I say I am at .. is taxing and it didn't help to regain the trust.

b. Good question ... he is consistently responding in the affirmative and he enjoy the companionship.

c. I am keen on his nudes. I love it bro!

d. Issue is with me, something I might need to learn and ADAPT? I don't know, you might have a point but I am not sure I can digest it though.

On 1/20/2022 at 8:21 PM, singalion said:

a. That is a difficult question.

The main question to me would be, is there attraction, can you think of this relationship in the long term?

What is there that you like on him?

Is there something that your bf does for you?

This money part is a tricky thing. Best is not to allow a situation where one party pays all for the other.

But I wrote before in a different query: You cannot factor the money in cents. It can be that your bf does cooking, housework, cleaning, groceries and other things.

Every couple handles things differently. Not sure on the actual arrangement.

There are always people who are more self centered than others.

But the thing that decides a relationship is the "give and take".

I dislike putting values to certain contributions to a relationship.

Good would be to voice your disliking of having to foot the bills since he is back to his normal salary.

If your terms on cheating are so strict, from my experience I don't see any long term bonding but your relationship will end sooner or later.

I don't think your position on this is realistic, in particular considering the age difference.

Not really living together might be a killer for a relationship also. At one time your bf might feel just lonely and will ask himself, why am I with him if he is not around.

Actually I am not sure whether you are a butterfly type of guy, but maybe I misinterpret your posts. What I do not really figure out is, if you intend to start a relationship with the other 27y old guy (his colleague) instead of your current bf...

b) If he doesn't find you physically attractive, then I wonder why he has sex with you. I guess there is a misunderstanding, he appreciates you as a person and lover, but sexually you do not 100% fit his type of preferred guy. But are you sufficient boy friend material to him?

c) Just tell him that you are not keen on his nudes. I m not sure what your problem is.

d) He might be a bit narcissistic, but that won't change with another 27y old . Not sure what you are exactly lamenting on.

I would just start to text him seriously.

If you already share costs of his flat (if I understood correctly) I would move in to his place and stay there for most of the time.

Regarding the bill paying part, I would just test him, just don't pay and see his reaction.

If it is just the money that keeps him being nice to you, then that is a sign that you are doomed to split. If you had read other of my advice I am mostly critical on ending relationships too soon, but in your case I would do the tests and take a decision when you experienced his reaction.

You can always give a reason that your parents need more money for a surgery or so, probably, and ask him to either pay his share or take over some of the food etc bills.

Unless your bf has the position of a slave, meaning taking care of household and your other needs, then it might be fair if one person foots the bills, but if he isn't in such a situation, he should offer his share. Surely, we don't know what salary he earns and what the difference is to yours, but in my experience it is the best to never allow such "sugar baby" situations to start at all if you intend to have a long term relationship. It won't work out in the future if this is too one sided.

Just test it, how much he values you in real. (But don't wonder as it might cause unforeseen conflicts).

January 21, 2022

Hey @Ironrod - To this is 'quit playing games with my heart' ... I mean all these achievable by being friends. No-strings attached sex, if there's need for help, hey I can help if with my means. Need help? Sure, I'll help. Not seeking for a puppy.. but what I want is just you know, something 'normal'? Don't you want that too? Sometimes we might want to live a life like Brian Kinney from Queer as Folk (yeah - I am that old and don't know any latest to relate) but we should also move to a 'normal' relationship. That's what I seek.

On 1/20/2022 at 9:26 PM, Ironrod said:

"we have plans to rent an apartment together (split cost and I would only go over every other night); gotten him a new iPhone (split cost again) and for his b’day this month, gotten him an Apple Watch. (These all within 1.5months period)."

I am 48, so i will be blunt with my thoughts as we are both older guys.

I think throwing money to younger ones (sorry 27 not even consider young in my books) to impress them leads u to current situation. Whatever sugar-coating u do, the fact is you did impress him with money first that's lead to the guy thinking you are "dependable". The saving-grace is, there is sex. What else do u expect? If you want a puppy, find some guys in Uni or something. This guy is 27, he has "seen" the world - so it's expected he knows the rules of the game.

I suggest u just enjoy the moment but remember "先認真的人就輸了“。

InBangkok · January 21, 2022

On 1/21/2022 at 1:11 AM, Steve5380 said:

He was 20 years younger than me, but I was never his sugar daddy . . . I paid for all our vacation trips, I bought him a nice car, which he cared for very much and which I still have today for sentimental reasons. I would have done the same had he been a lovely girlfriend. He was always frugal, except with his family in Mexico, to whom he always sent half of his income. I never had any doubt that he loved me as much as I loved him. All this is why I tell you: don't accept to be a "sugar daddy". If you have to be a "daddy" of sorts, leave out the SUGAR. Don't settle for a relationship that is not of true love, but don't mind spending some of your time to find out if it is so, and if it is not, move on

This is not a criticism. All relationships are different and it is often difficult to put ourselves in others' shoes to try to work out what problems they might be having in their relationship.

Like @Steve5380 I have been in a relationship for some years with a younger guy. He works full time but earns a great deal less than I. My view is that in such a situation there can not be true sharing of financial resources. So I also pay for small gifts from time to time, I also pay for our vacations (is that selfish of me because I want him with me and he could not afford to pay for all but our local trips on his own?) and very occasionally I have given him a small amount of cash. As an example of the last, a few months ago his best friend died of covid. His friend's family live overseas and he had no way of contacting them. One lady from their place of work turned up to the hospital. When she was asked to sign the papers to release the body, she just ran off! So my partner took it on himself to arrange for the body to be moved to the funeral temple, organised the funeral and the disposal of his possessions. I paid for all that. But when his family finally got in touch some weeks later, they expressed their gratitude for what my partner had done and reimbursed the full cost. He then repaid me. It was a highly emotional time for him and I so much wanted to help get him through it.

I think inevitably when there is an age gap of a couple of decades or more, the chances are the more senior partner has to be prepared to contribute more to the relationship. When the partner works, I cannot see this as a sugar daddy relationship. Surely that is when the younger guy is totally dependent on the older.

Ironrod · January 21, 2022

On 1/21/2022 at 12:24 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Hey @Ironrod - To this is 'quit playing games with my heart' ... I mean all these achievable by being friends. No-strings attached sex, if there's need for help, hey I can help if with my means. Need help? Sure, I'll help. Not seeking for a puppy.. but what I want is just you know, something 'normal'? Don't you want that too? Sometimes we might want to live a life like Brian Kinney from Queer as Folk (yeah - I am that old and don't know any latest to relate) but we should also move to a 'normal' relationship. That's what I seek.

If u want that "normal" r/s, then u shouldn't involve money in the r/s in the first place. It's ok to pay for dinners, movies even staycation but it's a totally different tone when u buy gifts and support the person. Your question on "all these achievable by being friends" is a serious JOKE. Do u seriously pay half of your friend "rent"? ahaha

Being "attached" makes giving gifts feels more "legit". Even in future when breakup, the 27 can explain becos you "loved" him so it's not becos he is a gold digger. All these tricks used by China woman do you even know? ahaha. Dude, seriously lar even sluts come out and play needs to protect their "reputation" and clever "gold digger" are the same.

It's ok to spend money on ppl you love but don't have high expectations from "gold diggers". They are on a different level and if u can't play their game - my advise is you exit.

Steve5380 · January 21, 2022

On 1/20/2022 at 10:25 PM, InBangkok said:

This is not a criticism. All relationships are different and it is often difficult to put ourselves in others' shoes to try to work out what problems they might be having in their relationship.

Like @Steve5380 I have been in a relationship for some years with a younger guy. He works full time but earns a great deal less than I. My view is that in such a situation there can not be true sharing of financial resources. So I also pay for small gifts from time to time, I also pay for our vacations (is that selfish of me because I want him with me and he could not afford to pay for all but our local trips on his own?) and very occasionally I have given him a small amount of cash. As an example of the last, a few months ago his best friend died of covid. His friend's family live overseas and he had no way of contacting them. One lady from their place of work turned up to the hospital. When she was asked to sign the papers to release the body, she just ran off! So my partner took it on himself to arrange for the body to be moved to the funeral temple, organised the funeral and the disposal of his possessions. I paid for all that. But when his family finally got in touch some weeks later, they expressed their gratitude for what my partner had done and reimbursed the full cost. He then repaid me. It was a highly emotional time for him and I so much wanted to help get him through it.

I think inevitably when there is an age gap of a couple of decades or more, the chances are the more senior partner has to be prepared to contribute more to the relationship. When the partner works, I cannot see this as a sugar daddy relationship. Surely that is when the younger guy is totally dependent on the older.

I fully agree with you. And the way you, having the means, are generous with your bf of lower income, is what a real man should be. My ex-wife when we married also had a lower education and income than me. When both my wife and my bf seduced me ( I never was into seduction ) there could have been economical reasons, but I never got this feeling and it never was so. When we divorced, my ex-wife did not demand anything unreasonable, like other women do. My bf had such a nice character, he would back down from any confrontation and people would take advantage of him. He also was incredibly honest. When he caught me in my "infidelity" and decided to leave, this gave me the clue that money was out of the question. And when I went after him and pleaded him to come back he new that I loved him. I was fortunate that in the two times I fell in love with persons on a lower socio-economic level, I received genuine love and not exploitation. And these persons with their human qualities were never in any inferior level. My ex-wife, who was a med-tech when we married, later went back to the university and became a registered nurse, making a perfect score "summa cum laude", leaving me very proud. So I can say, don't shy away from a relationship with someone of lower socio-economic level. What matters is the essence of the person. (who can blame Prince Charles for having married Camila? ha ha)

urinalpenang · January 21, 2022

..

Edited January 21, 2022 by urinalpenang
...

February 4, 2022

Happy New Year and Gong Xi Fa Chai and Happy Holidays all of you ... Hope the holidays treated all of you well. Continuing with my journey with this younger gentleman. As time progresses more drama created but I am just so in love with this guy. So since my last update on Jan 21... he talked things out and he really comforted me lots and gave me assurance needed he is serious and not a money boy. Fast forward a little to the following week... weekend before CNY, he was being nice to show me his Twitter (he used to post his encounters and exhibitionism in there) and I did ask him to show me, let me see but he did deleted them. Anyway as he was showing me a not so blank profile, I took note of his Twitter handle and did some digging myself (some great resource like Web Archive to check deleted old twitter) and managed to look through some. Since it was in the past, I didn't want to think so much but just really wanted to enjoy some home-made porn.

Anyway, after a night out of drinks with another friend (the unholy triangle friend (we call him B) and his familieS) we went back home to 'our' rented home. Not sure what Dominance came over me but got him to kneel in front of me and just basically smack him and told him never ever lie to me ... i told him i did manage to check on his twitter and it is all cool but don't pull shit to just give me lip service. He was fine, gave him and hug and as about to go bed, he started bawling and asked me to slap him again... I told him no (hey part of sex play, no issues but not an abusive guy here) but he said please as he had a big secret to tell. Got me nervous and ask him to just tell him. I told him all is good ... then he did finally said that he 'cuddled and kissed' with my best friend (recall the 4 gays that hangs out together). I was shocked, got a little brain dead and then told him, I need a smoke. I guess the smoke did good and told him I just need to leave and we're done. I just left and walked back to my own place which is about 3km away to cool down or heat up.

I was telling him to pack my stuff up and that we're done. Told him what all I have spent, I take it as a write-off and there is nothing he has to pay me back. But he kept saying he loves me and want to talk face to face, but I just couldn't do it... I would either smacked him or just buy into the lies as he looks at me (yeah! I am that sucker) so told him No. Done. Dusted. Written off. But the whole problem was ... I was also emotional, I really love this guy and was trying to find ways that I can let my little brain and big heart accept this crap and move on together with our lies, but he sure did make it difficult.

Next day, he kept texting but i wasn't bothered to read and told him so. I just told him to pack my stuff up. But since he too had to go back for CNY (it was Sunday) he said he would drop off my valuable items first. I was fine with that. It was great to see his face but I just couldn't bear to talk. Told him to share with me the chat with my best-friend, he took screenshots and an hour later, he decided to do screen recording of the chats --- i told him would there be difference, he said 'no' ... again i asked him as i would check, he continued to say 'no' then I said OK - this is where it went from cuddles and kisses, to meeting twice (which where He was back in hometown and me trying to be cheeky, you want let's talk now and snicker and didn't respond to him. He actually drove back immediately, like really immediately even before I said OK or anything and was in front of my house. But unfortunately, I was heading off the to pub for drinks early evening. Told him to meet me there in 90 mins, but the unholy trinity friend was there too trying to comfort me.... so i was oh wow, like this let's all have the bf's and sex buddies gather together.

At the pub..

B - the guy that liked me and colleague of young-man, I told him 27yo did this with my best-friend. His 1st response, 'I know'... that got my blood hit to the max!!! I was angry, sad, felt like an idiot ... I was just shooting him as how he could do this to me and not tell me, I was just shooting without giving him change to talk. He got a little pissed off but he also know he can't say much as how I told him from my perspective, he knew he was wrong ....

Then 30mins later, 27yo showed up. Called him the slut etc .... Told him on the spot to send me the chatlogs and send to me immediately. He did and at the same time, I invited my best-friend to join us too. 27yo was telling his story that was going from only hugs and kisses, to meeting 4 times, and then no, 3 times ... i told him to get his act right. I told him I was trying to help him, help me, and help us ... now that it is out (which I thank him for being honest) but not a good time to keep lying. Really wanted to slap him in public but had to hold it in and worst I was bawling in public. B of course tried to defend himself and said, what? this all he doesn't know they did a few times. Made him on the spot to also request for his Twitter archive (this was for my entertainment and see if he was still active). I the one that organized to meet up for drinks and like 80% of the time paying for it, and comforting them when they have problems .. just felt like an idiot.

When best-friend arrived, B had to leave and he left angrily scolding 27yo and best-friend. best-friend was ashamed and just couldn't say anything .. while i was happily scolding them and was snubbing 27yo that you want to be a slut, go find my best-friend to support you. i cut my ties, he started kneeling and begging, told him.. pls pls pls get up, pls get up. He must had a sudden high as when i said, i command you to just sit .. he did.

But I really love him as i convinced myself that it was before we gotten in a relationship and actually went back with him and just sleep.

So 30th night we talked a little and I said, I want to look through and decide. But since he being Chinese (I am too but not conservative), I promised him these days are auspicious and will just speak sweet things with him. Asked him to leave as he had reunion lunch with the family. Back in my mind, I had to download all our 3 peoples chats and mapped out the timelines to get a better understanding. Tried to do the mapping and small little inconsistencies as he said he already like me and we were calling dear but meant nothing when we haven't gone on a date (he asked but I switched topics)... continuously when meeting up, he would always sit beside me and i be hugging him off and on (but still means nothing).. anyway, so I kind of accepted it's because I wasn't firm on our status nor made effort during that time, he could play all he wants. But he did something i thought was wonderful, he transfered $4K to my account - basically his whole bonus. While his savings is still only in hundreds. I felt touched. But he did when intoxicated and decided to ask him when he sobered up.

1st day of CNY, wished him etc and trying to go 'back' to normal, asked him abou the money if he regretted sending.. he said he had always planned to do it and that he just didnt' want to speak but action on it. So I told him, I will keep it and if he ever needed it back, he can ask. But eventually told him, let's just setup an FD and lets build it with compounded interest. All this time I compared the screenshots with the screen recording. Guess what? the screen recording he deleted stuff which was in his screenshots (he sent 2 of the same and one with the hidden chat)... i just couldn't hold my tongue and had to tell him... told him to beg, lie or what not and ask my bestfriend for the chatlog if 27yo really want to make this work. ... urgh he actually did and got a hell of a scolding and cursing from bestfriend on CNY. This was because when 27yo blurted to me, he didn't give my bestfriend a head's up. And again he said he is coming back to see me. I said no, it's CNY, spend with the family.. and I told him I too though hurt I will need to have my dinner with my family on CNY. But he did come and I really want this to work and went to 'our place'. He explained saying it's nothing important, I told him if he thinks I am an idiot. He said he can't recall what he deleted and added that he deleted because he panicked and didn't know how I would react. But he did admit that he was speaking something slutty though I was curious but I really love this 27yo and he is being genuinely sincere... i mean though he was the cause of the problem, he did take effort to rectify it. So I said fuck it ... I will just trust him and again because it was even before we went on our 1st official date.

2nd day of CNY, told 27yo, gonna draft a message to bestfriend and ask bestfriend if he is interested to meet later that night ... Excepts of it below :

------------

Bestfriend - Some things are better spoken while others are best written. If you’re free tonight, just you and I we can talk over drinks at XXX. Till such time, here it goes…

* My relationships - You would/might always say when I am in a relationship I would change/be different and that is always likely so. Allowing/inviting someone into my live which is both mutual would definitely change someone. Order of priorities, God, Family, Partner, Friends. When I am partnered, doesn’t mean my friends got demoted, I am just saying, I do treat my partner as a life partner and would definitely be closer to my heart physically and spiritually.
    * With XBF, I am generally speaking about him to you and complaining most of the time, however I made mistakes by not defending him that you construe a wrong picture of him. His behavior and yours might be the same and which is where you both clash. That night at XX, while he was just silent and chatting with those around him and though he did not acknowledge your ‘general’ Hi!, wasn’t a big deal. Unlike he went to your house and didn’t acknowledge the host, now that would be rude. Though he had already left that night when you started your ranting, I felt (for my own benefit) as a final act to XBF, I must defend him and hence our little tiff. I am sorry I had to come out harsh and brought out irrelevant points at that time.
    * With 27yo this gets a little complicated and ties with other points below but this has definitely been the most interesting and twisted way where I hope both him and I can laugh further down the road how we got started. Right now, 27yo and I are in a relationship. Period. I have told him whatever it is before Jan 1, 2022 is in the past and I would not hold him accountable. Like all relationships, we embrace the present and plan for the future, long-term. I have told 27yo I may not be his first love, first partner, first sex but I am definitely in the long run to commit to be his last everything (sappy, I know). With that said, I am going to defend him. I am going to ensure he is treated with respect just like any other person and more so that he is my life-partner.
    * 27yo and You - Yes, I acknowledge it sucks and immediate response was anger and betrayal that both of you have had sex and sessions a few times, but it doesn’t change the fact where both him and I are today. It wasn’t the sex that was killing me, it was how you guys played it cool and how when you were stabbing him behind his back, you were also on the side having sex with him. Confusing and possibly we also have to see timelines. Yes he abruptly out of no where just mention about this on Saturday night and there may be lots of things running through his head to clear the air and that he also know that I told him on numerous occasions, that he needs to be the person to tell me first about anything and everything (lol that night when you were in St, you msg-ed me and told me he was there, I did know he was out with his gf’s in GP but not St - did tell him to please just update me). Though I was pissed off at him that he had to drag this secret into my relationship with him, but I too have to acknowledge, if it came out any earlier - I might not be in a relationship with him today. Yes, I did ask him to share with me the chat logs and basically I just want to know the dates and where you and I, him and I were (state of mind rather than physical location) at that point in time. Feel free to share if you want, if you find it embarrassing, you can keep it. I have made my peace on that.
    * In conclusion, as a friend, listen, do provide sound advise, but please do not interfere. I can’t recall where I have interfered in your relationship or disrespect your bf’s. It doesn’t mean that I am indifferent or do not support you, it only means that I know it is something that both you and your partner have to work and decide.
* Both you and I - Now this is the part that gets interesting and the whole purpose of my writing. I have separately dealt this with 27yo. Yes, we have been friends for 30+ years (OMG! Even before 27yo was born!) and yes when we hang out or go on vacations we definitely have lots of fun and can get along well and it does go even further than that. It is a sincere friendship as I thought built on trust and confidence seeing the backdrop of how we became friends.
    * The Betrayal - This gets complex and might appear as a rambling but bear with me. I have always tend to believe I am open and transparent. It is my way to simplify life and keep things honest. I have experienced keeping lies and lies building over lies and that just eats me up. Not only that, to rebuild it, takes time and I know it could never be the same and again eats me up. Which is where I would always say that I cheated on XBF very openly. In that relationship I might appear as the loser but I didn’t care as XBF at that time was special to me. This is me and not passing judgment. What I am trying to achieve is to tell you how I feel and from my perspective. I always respect that we all have different personalities, some we can accept, others we can’t.
        * It was very disheartening that you had to betray me with this regard. Let’s look at it progressively …
            * When we all first gathered (mid Oct) and you both hooked up, it wasn’t an issue. It would be great that if you gossiped with me about it, but you didn’t, is fine too as not necessary to tell me who you hooked up with. Sneaky but totally acceptable. 😉
            * As weeks move on, you did know from me that 27yo was acting weird saying ‘miss me’, wanna hang out etc and of course me being dense, I just brushed it off and kept on brushing off even when he said he liked me or really liked me. And of course I did have a negative image of him but always welcomed him and I did enjoy his company but was always ‘afraid’ to just hang out with him alone. Again, at this stage you both hooked up, I would be totally cool with you and be totally pissed off with him and it would be a dead-end between him and I. During this period too, both him and I did plan for sex but it faltered but still totally cool. I also did tell you when he said he was finally ready for sex and I just brushed him off as I wait for no man. It was totally weird and makes me laugh… he says, like me, really like me, I say lets fuck, he says come, I would change the topic. Why am I sharing this here? This is because you knew ALL of this and you did what you did and most importantly at this stage you should have said something about your little rendezvous.
                * Why didn’t you find the need to tell me at this stage?
                * When I was seeking for help and advise as his advancement was getting more serious, you should have been supportive in telling me about your encounters. Did you think it would just disappear and not talked about? Did you want to get into a relationship with him instead? Tell me.
                * When I said I was going to start dating him, why didn’t you find the need to tell me?
            * It is very disappointing that as I tried to keep everyone happy and entertained and had at times no qualms paying the bill as long all are having fun, just felt betrayed by all of you, and definitely the most from you.
        * Step into my shoes and tell me how would you feel? You did go too far.
        * Yes, I will also take blame for all this as I was being very ‘lalang’ and might be the contributing factor of the whole situation.

Nonetheless, I do forgive you and I am letting this go with lessons learned (I also know you didn’t apologize in this wrong). Why am I doing this so easily? We grew up from young and can’t disregard our families know each other. And also because, I won, I went through emotional rollercoaster with all of this and in the end I got the man I want. Sharing a place with him, he is contributing his part of the deal. Met his family, he met mine and slowly coming out to others. If I had to repeat the whole thing again, would be great you told me what you knew but somewhat thankful you didn’t.

I didn’t give you a chance to share the other day, if you want/need to share your part of the story, be happy to meet. It’ll be awkward but I am sure we will maneuver ourselves well.

---------

It keeps getting more interesting as it progresses, but I am at peace with this and made up with bestfriend and 27yo. With B, who liked me is going back to his BF but he still has feelings for me and hate his colleague 27yo. I did warn 27yo, I might off and on go into emo phase which I depend on him to comfort. Ahh these youngsters thinks I don't have experience....

Anyway, this is it ... more to come if more drama appears or if you prefer to hear about the sex... oddly i got no idea how it end up, we are like going into surface BDSM unintentionally and switched roles. haha ...

February 4, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 4:37 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Happy New Year and Gong Xi Fa Chai and Happy Holidays all of you ... Hope the holidays treated all of you well. Continuing with my journey with this younger gentleman. As time progresses more drama created but I am just so in love with this guy. So since my last update on Jan 21... he talked things out and he really comforted me lots and gave me assurance needed he is serious and not a money boy. Fast forward a little to the following week... weekend before CNY, he was being nice to show me his Twitter (he used to post his encounters and exhibitionism in there) and I did ask him to show me, let me see but he did deleted them. Anyway as he was showing me a not so blank profile, I took note of his Twitter handle and did some digging myself (some great resource like Web Archive to check deleted old twitter) and managed to look through some. Since it was in the past, I didn't want to think so much but just really wanted to enjoy some home-made porn.

Anyway, after a night out of drinks with another friend (the unholy triangle friend (we call him B) and his familieS) we went back home to 'our' rented home. Not sure what Dominance came over me but got him to kneel in front of me and just basically smack him and told him never ever lie to me ... i told him i did manage to check on his twitter and it is all cool but don't pull shit to just give me lip service. He was fine, gave him and hug and as about to go bed, he started bawling and asked me to slap him again... I told him no (hey part of sex play, no issues but not an abusive guy here) but he said please as he had a big secret to tell. Got me nervous and ask him to just tell him. I told him all is good ... then he did finally said that he 'cuddled and kissed' with my best friend (recall the 4 gays that hangs out together). I was shocked, got a little brain dead and then told him, I need a smoke. I guess the smoke did good and told him I just need to leave and we're done. I just left and walked back to my own place which is about 3km away to cool down or heat up.

I was telling him to pack my stuff up and that we're done. Told him what all I have spent, I take it as a write-off and there is nothing he has to pay me back. But he kept saying he loves me and want to talk face to face, but I just couldn't do it... I would either smacked him or just buy into the lies as he looks at me (yeah! I am that sucker) so told him No. Done. Dusted. Written off. But the whole problem was ... I was also emotional, I really love this guy and was trying to find ways that I can let my little brain and big heart accept this crap and move on together with our lies, but he sure did make it difficult.

Next day, he kept texting but i wasn't bothered to read and told him so. I just told him to pack my stuff up. But since he too had to go back for CNY (it was Sunday) he said he would drop off my valuable items first. I was fine with that. It was great to see his face but I just couldn't bear to talk. Told him to share with me the chat with my best-friend, he took screenshots and an hour later, he decided to do screen recording of the chats --- i told him would there be difference, he said 'no' ... again i asked him as i would check, he continued to say 'no' then I said OK - this is where it went from cuddles and kisses, to meeting twice (which where He was back in hometown and me trying to be cheeky, you want let's talk now and snicker and didn't respond to him. He actually drove back immediately, like really immediately even before I said OK or anything and was in front of my house. But unfortunately, I was heading off the to pub for drinks early evening. Told him to meet me there in 90 mins, but the unholy trinity friend was there too trying to comfort me.... so i was oh wow, like this let's all have the bf's and sex buddies gather together.

At the pub..

B - the guy that liked me and colleague of young-man, I told him 27yo did this with my best-friend. His 1st response, 'I know'... that got my blood hit to the max!!! I was angry, sad, felt like an idiot ... I was just shooting him as how he could do this to me and not tell me, I was just shooting without giving him change to talk. He got a little pissed off but he also know he can't say much as how I told him from my perspective, he knew he was wrong ....

Then 30mins later, 27yo showed up. Called him the slut etc .... Told him on the spot to send me the chatlogs and send to me immediately. He did and at the same time, I invited my best-friend to join us too. 27yo was telling his story that was going from only hugs and kisses, to meeting 4 times, and then no, 3 times ... i told him to get his act right. I told him I was trying to help him, help me, and help us ... now that it is out (which I thank him for being honest) but not a good time to keep lying. Really wanted to slap him in public but had to hold it in and worst I was bawling in public. B of course tried to defend himself and said, what? this all he doesn't know they did a few times. Made him on the spot to also request for his Twitter archive (this was for my entertainment and see if he was still active). I the one that organized to meet up for drinks and like 80% of the time paying for it, and comforting them when they have problems .. just felt like an idiot.

When best-friend arrived, B had to leave and he left angrily scolding 27yo and best-friend. best-friend was ashamed and just couldn't say anything .. while i was happily scolding them and was snubbing 27yo that you want to be a slut, go find my best-friend to support you. i cut my ties, he started kneeling and begging, told him.. pls pls pls get up, pls get up. He must had a sudden high as when i said, i command you to just sit .. he did.

But I really love him as i convinced myself that it was before we gotten in a relationship and actually went back with him and just sleep.

So 30th night we talked a little and I said, I want to look through and decide. But since he being Chinese (I am too but not conservative), I promised him these days are auspicious and will just speak sweet things with him. Asked him to leave as he had reunion lunch with the family. Back in my mind, I had to download all our 3 peoples chats and mapped out the timelines to get a better understanding. Tried to do the mapping and small little inconsistencies as he said he already like me and we were calling dear but meant nothing when we haven't gone on a date (he asked but I switched topics)... continuously when meeting up, he would always sit beside me and i be hugging him off and on (but still means nothing).. anyway, so I kind of accepted it's because I wasn't firm on our status nor made effort during that time, he could play all he wants. But he did something i thought was wonderful, he transfered $4K to my account - basically his whole bonus. While his savings is still only in hundreds. I felt touched. But he did when intoxicated and decided to ask him when he sobered up.

1st day of CNY, wished him etc and trying to go 'back' to normal, asked him abou the money if he regretted sending.. he said he had always planned to do it and that he just didnt' want to speak but action on it. So I told him, I will keep it and if he ever needed it back, he can ask. But eventually told him, let's just setup an FD and lets build it with compounded interest. All this time I compared the screenshots with the screen recording. Guess what? the screen recording he deleted stuff which was in his screenshots (he sent 2 of the same and one with the hidden chat)... i just couldn't hold my tongue and had to tell him... told him to beg, lie or what not and ask my bestfriend for the chatlog if 27yo really want to make this work. ... urgh he actually did and got a hell of a scolding and cursing from bestfriend on CNY. This was because when 27yo blurted to me, he didn't give my bestfriend a head's up. And again he said he is coming back to see me. I said no, it's CNY, spend with the family.. and I told him I too though hurt I will need to have my dinner with my family on CNY. But he did come and I really want this to work and went to 'our place'. He explained saying it's nothing important, I told him if he thinks I am an idiot. He said he can't recall what he deleted and added that he deleted because he panicked and didn't know how I would react. But he did admit that he was speaking something slutty though I was curious but I really love this 27yo and he is being genuinely sincere... i mean though he was the cause of the problem, he did take effort to rectify it. So I said fuck it ... I will just trust him and again because it was even before we went on our 1st official date.

2nd day of CNY, told 27yo, gonna draft a message to bestfriend and ask bestfriend if he is interested to meet later that night ... Excepts of it below :

------------

Bestfriend - Some things are better spoken while others are best written. If you’re free tonight, just you and I we can talk over drinks at XXX. Till such time, here it goes…

* My relationships - You would/might always say when I am in a relationship I would change/be different and that is always likely so. Allowing/inviting someone into my live which is both mutual would definitely change someone. Order of priorities, God, Family, Partner, Friends. When I am partnered, doesn’t mean my friends got demoted, I am just saying, I do treat my partner as a life partner and would definitely be closer to my heart physically and spiritually.
    * With XBF, I am generally speaking about him to you and complaining most of the time, however I made mistakes by not defending him that you construe a wrong picture of him. His behavior and yours might be the same and which is where you both clash. That night at XX, while he was just silent and chatting with those around him and though he did not acknowledge your ‘general’ Hi!, wasn’t a big deal. Unlike he went to your house and didn’t acknowledge the host, now that would be rude. Though he had already left that night when you started your ranting, I felt (for my own benefit) as a final act to XBF, I must defend him and hence our little tiff. I am sorry I had to come out harsh and brought out irrelevant points at that time.
    * With 27yo this gets a little complicated and ties with other points below but this has definitely been the most interesting and twisted way where I hope both him and I can laugh further down the road how we got started. Right now, 27yo and I are in a relationship. Period. I have told him whatever it is before Jan 1, 2022 is in the past and I would not hold him accountable. Like all relationships, we embrace the present and plan for the future, long-term. I have told 27yo I may not be his first love, first partner, first sex but I am definitely in the long run to commit to be his last everything (sappy, I know). With that said, I am going to defend him. I am going to ensure he is treated with respect just like any other person and more so that he is my life-partner.
    * 27yo and You - Yes, I acknowledge it sucks and immediate response was anger and betrayal that both of you have had sex and sessions a few times, but it doesn’t change the fact where both him and I are today. It wasn’t the sex that was killing me, it was how you guys played it cool and how when you were stabbing him behind his back, you were also on the side having sex with him. Confusing and possibly we also have to see timelines. Yes he abruptly out of no where just mention about this on Saturday night and there may be lots of things running through his head to clear the air and that he also know that I told him on numerous occasions, that he needs to be the person to tell me first about anything and everything (lol that night when you were in St, you msg-ed me and told me he was there, I did know he was out with his gf’s in GP but not St - did tell him to please just update me). Though I was pissed off at him that he had to drag this secret into my relationship with him, but I too have to acknowledge, if it came out any earlier - I might not be in a relationship with him today. Yes, I did ask him to share with me the chat logs and basically I just want to know the dates and where you and I, him and I were (state of mind rather than physical location) at that point in time. Feel free to share if you want, if you find it embarrassing, you can keep it. I have made my peace on that.
    * In conclusion, as a friend, listen, do provide sound advise, but please do not interfere. I can’t recall where I have interfered in your relationship or disrespect your bf’s. It doesn’t mean that I am indifferent or do not support you, it only means that I know it is something that both you and your partner have to work and decide.
* Both you and I - Now this is the part that gets interesting and the whole purpose of my writing. I have separately dealt this with 27yo. Yes, we have been friends for 30+ years (OMG! Even before 27yo was born!) and yes when we hang out or go on vacations we definitely have lots of fun and can get along well and it does go even further than that. It is a sincere friendship as I thought built on trust and confidence seeing the backdrop of how we became friends.
    * The Betrayal - This gets complex and might appear as a rambling but bear with me. I have always tend to believe I am open and transparent. It is my way to simplify life and keep things honest. I have experienced keeping lies and lies building over lies and that just eats me up. Not only that, to rebuild it, takes time and I know it could never be the same and again eats me up. Which is where I would always say that I cheated on XBF very openly. In that relationship I might appear as the loser but I didn’t care as XBF at that time was special to me. This is me and not passing judgment. What I am trying to achieve is to tell you how I feel and from my perspective. I always respect that we all have different personalities, some we can accept, others we can’t.
        * It was very disheartening that you had to betray me with this regard. Let’s look at it progressively …
            * When we all first gathered (mid Oct) and you both hooked up, it wasn’t an issue. It would be great that if you gossiped with me about it, but you didn’t, is fine too as not necessary to tell me who you hooked up with. Sneaky but totally acceptable. 😉
            * As weeks move on, you did know from me that 27yo was acting weird saying ‘miss me’, wanna hang out etc and of course me being dense, I just brushed it off and kept on brushing off even when he said he liked me or really liked me. And of course I did have a negative image of him but always welcomed him and I did enjoy his company but was always ‘afraid’ to just hang out with him alone. Again, at this stage you both hooked up, I would be totally cool with you and be totally pissed off with him and it would be a dead-end between him and I. During this period too, both him and I did plan for sex but it faltered but still totally cool. I also did tell you when he said he was finally ready for sex and I just brushed him off as I wait for no man. It was totally weird and makes me laugh… he says, like me, really like me, I say lets fuck, he says come, I would change the topic. Why am I sharing this here? This is because you knew ALL of this and you did what you did and most importantly at this stage you should have said something about your little rendezvous.
                * Why didn’t you find the need to tell me at this stage?
                * When I was seeking for help and advise as his advancement was getting more serious, you should have been supportive in telling me about your encounters. Did you think it would just disappear and not talked about? Did you want to get into a relationship with him instead? Tell me.
                * When I said I was going to start dating him, why didn’t you find the need to tell me?
            * It is very disappointing that as I tried to keep everyone happy and entertained and had at times no qualms paying the bill as long all are having fun, just felt betrayed by all of you, and definitely the most from you.
        * Step into my shoes and tell me how would you feel? You did go too far.
        * Yes, I will also take blame for all this as I was being very ‘lalang’ and might be the contributing factor of the whole situation.

Nonetheless, I do forgive you and I am letting this go with lessons learned (I also know you didn’t apologize in this wrong). Why am I doing this so easily? We grew up from young and can’t disregard our families know each other. And also because, I won, I went through emotional rollercoaster with all of this and in the end I got the man I want. Sharing a place with him, he is contributing his part of the deal. Met his family, he met mine and slowly coming out to others. If I had to repeat the whole thing again, would be great you told me what you knew but somewhat thankful you didn’t.

I didn’t give you a chance to share the other day, if you want/need to share your part of the story, be happy to meet. It’ll be awkward but I am sure we will maneuver ourselves well.

---------

It keeps getting more interesting as it progresses, but I am at peace with this and made up with bestfriend and 27yo. With B, who liked me is going back to his BF but he still has feelings for me and hate his colleague 27yo. I did warn 27yo, I might off and on go into emo phase which I depend on him to comfort. Ahh these youngsters thinks I don't have experience....

Anyway, this is it ... more to come if more drama appears or if you prefer to hear about the sex... oddly i got no idea how it end up, we are like going into surface BDSM unintentionally and switched roles. haha ...

wtf? You slap this guy, stalk him online and demand access to his private messages? If I were him, I would be running as fast as possible because it sounds like you are gaslighting him.

February 4, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 5:33 PM, Guest Wtf said:

wtf? You slap this guy, stalk him online and demand access to his private messages? If I were him, I would be running as fast as possible because it sounds like you are gaslighting him.

Fuck man you put it that way but I wouldn't have done if he didn't lie when he was supposed to come clean....

February 4, 2022

You are 40 years old, he is 27, but y'all behave like children. At first I was just observing from afar thinking "poor guy", then it gets shittier and shittier. There are enough people writing long eloquent replies to you; if you wanna feel good you can read those. To me this is ridiculous. The fact that you even have to write all these things, I think it says more than enough. In fact you seem to perhaps even enjoy the drama. He's also not that young already... 27, and still complicated, social media whore (external validation seeking) and all about the high life? If he really loved you there wouldn't be all this messy crap. No need for all the triple-guessing, the dramatic fits. If those people really were your friends they wouldn't have done this to you. You don't love yourself la. Get your life together. Straight people your age have kids taking PSLE this year, for Pete's sake. Lol. I guess different people do lead different lives.

February 4, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 6:05 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Fuck man you put it that way but I wouldn't have done if he didn't lie when he was supposed to come clean....

Are you actually joking?! You are now saying it is his fault that you slapped him?

I can’t believe this…

IkuTube · February 4, 2022

Dear UltraSheer,

You need to take control of your actions, thoughts and fleeting emotions. Learn to live in the moment. Learn not to drag the past and to let it hinder your future. The more you are stuck in the past, your fleeting emotions can get worst. Learn to simplify your thoughts.

I am not sure if you are aware on the ways in which you behave. You mentioned 'Since it was in the past, I didn't want to think so much'. Yet, you are contradicting yourself, unconsciously, as there is a need in you to check. You said, 'I took note of his Twitter handle and did some digging myself'. Do you see a pattern where you do not completely want to let the past go, but tried to convince yourself 'it is all cool'?

Do you think you have trust issue? You wanted him to be proactive but the minute he opened up to share with you the 'big secret', all hell broke loose. In general, life is messy and we should not make it messier. Learn to calm down and compromise. After all, none of us is perfect and we have to learn to adapt and accept so that life can be beautiful to live for.

Do you realize that you have a tendency to get violent too, both verbally and in action? This can be scary when it is not observed and controlled, particularly when there is an inclination to act where you are 'not sure what dominance came over me'. When you used the word 'dominance', can it be applied unconsciously to your personality too?

I like the reply made by Guest StrangeWorld. It is spot on. He ended with 'I guess different people do lead different lives'.

Hence, UltraSheer, do you want to consider what and how you want to lead yours? Perhaps, let's go back to basic and ask yourself, seriously, "what do you really want?".

February 5, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 8:14 PM, IkuTube said:

Dear UltraSheer,

You need to take control of your actions, thoughts and fleeting emotions. Learn to live in the moment. Learn not to drag the past and to let it hinder your future. The more you are stuck in the past, your fleeting emotions can get worst. Learn to simplify your thoughts.

I am not sure if you are aware on the ways in which you behave. You mentioned 'Since it was in the past, I didn't want to think so much'. Yet, you are contradicting yourself, unconsciously, as there is a need in you to check. You said, 'I took note of his Twitter handle and did some digging myself'. Do you see a pattern where you do not completely want to let the past go, but tried to convince yourself 'it is all cool'?

Do you think you have trust issue? You wanted him to be proactive but the minute he opened up to share with you the 'big secret', all hell broke loose. In general, life is messy and we should not make it messier. Learn to calm down and compromise. After all, none of us is perfect and we have to learn to adapt and accept so that life can be beautiful to live for.

Do you realize that you have a tendency to get violent too, both verbally and in action? This can be scary when it is not observed and controlled, particularly when there is an inclination to act where you are 'not sure what dominance came over me'. When you used the word 'dominance', can it be applied unconsciously to your personality too?

I like the reply made by Guest StrangeWorld. It is spot on. He ended with 'I guess different people do lead different lives'.

Hence, UltraSheer, do you want to consider what and how you want to lead yours? Perhaps, let's go back to basic and ask yourself, seriously, "what do you really want?".

No, please don’t ask him to stop. This is more interesting than Joan Collins in Dynasty.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 12:55 PM, Guest Fatty said:

No, please don’t ask him to stop. This is more interesting than Joan Collins in Dynasty.

The movie version will be called Dirty Linen

Tsk tsk

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 3:55 PM, Guest Fatty said:

No, please don’t ask him to stop. This is more interesting than Joan Collins in Dynasty.

colby co oil, alexis colby speaking

yes, can definitely rival my life

February 5, 2022

Hi All - Thanks... To @IkuTube Hence, UltraSheer, do you want to consider what and how you want to lead yours? Perhaps, let's go back to basic and ask yourself, seriously, "what do you really want?".

I want peace but I am sure taking the wrong roads achieving it. I don't know what I want ... I am a happy go lucky guy, if something good appears, I can't simply ignore. If I embrace it, I do take the drama with it all too. I am fine with the past after knowing the full facts of it and hence can conclude what I concluded. I hate the thought of being blinded or being led on (is this fair?).

I definitely have trust issues. But I do find that I am an understanding person if you try to make me understand. Possibly like what StrangeWorld said, possibly I don't love myself.

As for my behavior, yes, i try to control it and feel guilty after attacking. I am the type that needs time to digest and if still getting provoked, I might get violent verbally or physically. And then get apologetic after that. No clear pattern of abuse. When it was cool and calm and we discussed, I told him I was sorry and told him never let anyone abuse him not even me. So I do feel bad and won't want a repeat.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:07 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Hi All - Thanks... To @IkuTube Hence, UltraSheer, do you want to consider what and how you want to lead yours? Perhaps, let's go back to basic and ask yourself, seriously, "what do you really want?".

I want peace but I am sure taking the wrong roads achieving it. I don't know what I want ... I am a happy go lucky guy, if something good appears, I can't simply ignore. If I embrace it, I do take the drama with it all too. I am fine with the past after knowing the full facts of it and hence can conclude what I concluded. I hate the thought of being blinded or being led on (is this fair?).

I definitely have trust issues. But I do find that I am an understanding person if you try to make me understand. Possibly like what StrangeWorld said, possibly I don't love myself.

As for my behavior, yes, i try to control it and feel guilty after attacking. I am the type that needs time to digest and if still getting provoked, I might get violent verbally or physically. And then get apologetic after that. No clear pattern of abuse. When it was cool and calm and we discussed, I told him I was sorry and told him never let anyone abuse him not even me. So I do feel bad and won't want a repeat.

if you cannot control yourself and ‘might get violent verbally or physically’, you need to fix that first and forget all the other stuff because there is no way this guy should stick around for you to slap him again, even if you apologise after. You also sound strangely passive about your ability to this and are still blaming it on you being ‘provoked’, as if this is an excuse.

At 40 years old, you need to take control of this part of yourself and you can’t do that with him there. Take yourself out of all the teen drama and work on yourself - probably you will need professional help.

February 5, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 4:37 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Anyway, after a night out of drinks with another friend (the unholy triangle friend (we call him B) and his familieS) we went back home to 'our' rented home. Not sure what Dominance came over me but got him to kneel in front of me and just basically smack him and told him never ever lie to me ... i told him i did manage to check on his twitter and it is all cool but don't pull shit to just give me lip service.

(Emphasis in above quote mine)

On 2/5/2022 at 6:07 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

As for my behavior, yes, i try to control it and feel guilty after attacking. I am the type that needs time to digest and if still getting provoked, I might get violent verbally or physically. And then get apologetic after that. No clear pattern of abuse. When it was cool and calm and we discussed, I told him I was sorry and told him never let anyone abuse him not even me. So I do feel bad and won't want a repeat.

Being intoxicated may encourage violence, but does not completely excuse it or mitigate blame. You say there's no clear pattern of abuse, and you didn't lay a hand on him as he confessed to cheating. You seem to have enough self-awareness with respect to this (domestic abuse), so I'm going to assume the slap was a one-off thing.

On 2/5/2022 at 6:07 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

I definitely have trust issues. But I do find that I am an understanding person if you try to make me understand. Possibly like what StrangeWorld said, possibly I don't love myself.

I would have trust issues too after being with the 27-year-old guy you described. You've never felt secure in this relationship, which is what started this forum thread in the first place. Were you also this unsettled in your previous relationship(s)?

I don't quite get the focus on violence and trust in the recent replies, especially when it's a fact that the 27-year-old guy cheated. I don't know about others' personal philosophies, but if you ask me, this isn't something one can just dismiss with "nobody is perfect". To be upset (excluding any violence, a point which I addressed above) upon learning you've been cheated on is a valid reaction.

I think the bigger issue here is that you can't seem to not make stupid decisions that have made you a doormat and that've hurt you.

I don't know what you see in this guy; to me it seems this relationship was never built on a stable foundation. He doesn't find you attractive, is a narcissist hooked on social media at 27, doesn't seem to gel well with you (you yourself allude to this when you compared him to your ex who you describe as, comparatively, "affectionate, considerate, caring, and we have alot to talk about and not so self-absorb with IG"), and repeatedly "expresses some behaviors/traits" (I'm quoting you again) that perturb you and make you question the relationship. You've invested quite a bit (and quite literally too; $$$) in someone you've known for only 6+ months, and what have you gotten in return? Are you happy? Do you feel settled? Obviously not, since you're here. Overall, has he not made you feel nothing but like shit?

And if these aren't enough, he cheated on you. With your "best friend" (why you keep friends who don't respect you and do/hide things behind your back is beyond me). Repeatedly. Is this what someone who holds you in special esteem does to you? Do you believe he respects you? Actually, do you even respect yourself?! If you ever needed a reason to leave him (if all the other red flags - some of which echoed by other commentors and even yourself - somehow weren't enough), this is it.

At this point especially, I don't know what's so complicated about this.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

Is it the sex? Is it that good? Is the sex - which, given his character, I say, you probably won't hold exclusive right to - worth all this nonsense? Haven't you the littlest bit of inner strength to not let your emotions/feelings cloud your judgement, and do what's right for yourself?

Anyway, just my 1 cent. Ultimately, you make the bed you lie in.

February 7, 2022

I am really glad you guys watch out on signs of abuse or domestic violence. I am firm to say that no such things happens. I have asked him over and over again basis your feedback if I over-reacted and he did say it's cool as he might react the same way too. I did ask over and over again if I was violent, he said yeah I can appear aggressive and I did tell him it was suppose to be an intro to heh.. u know but it just went everywhere but there that night. Nonetheless, he did say I appeared angry and I am being more cognizant for it not to happen, except if it's part of sex/foreplay. BTW, he does get his fair share to get me to submit (but really totally different story).

As for our behaviors, I guess trouble just follows wherever we go but between him and I we're good. Considering what all of you have said (and again specifically to @IkuTube) I am acknowledging that if I want to know, I would also have to deal with the answer and respect that. Past few days we have been hanging out like Siamese twins and when we were at the Mall, ran into some people he knows. Respect that he had the courage to tell me, he had group sex with that guy and then we saw a poster and said had sex with him too (slut!)... and that poster-guy was the best sex he ever had until I came along. Nonetheless, I was totally cool with all this and you know what, he went to the extent of saying he still had the videos in his chat logs and he showed to me. I was pretty much turned on to watch. No judgement, just turned on. It was wow. Tempted to ask if he could send it to me.. seriously.. damn good jerk-off material, but that'll be disrespectful. Anyway, he did say to share mine and I say, let's see further down the road.

So I can conclude we're both perverts and I told, let's just embrace it as long it is just between the both of us.

Love and attraction sometimes do change things. He was always adamant that he is a bottom now. He was a top and then slowly found he found it difficult to maintain an erection for penetration or that he cums too fast.... now seems we're both equally bottoming for each other. He has no problem maintaining an erection...

BTW I know it is ridiculous to post such things as my personal life in here, however I am doing it anonymously. Not an attention seeker, just really seeking advise on all these.

If this story can make it into a short gay drama, do ensure to give credit to this site and a donation to it too.

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 5:55 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

I am really glad you guys watch out on signs of abuse or domestic violence. I am firm to say that no such things happens. I have asked him over and over again basis your feedback if I over-reacted and he did say it's cool as he might react the same way too. I did ask over and over again if I was violent, he said yeah I can appear aggressive and I did tell him it was suppose to be an intro to heh.. u know but it just went everywhere but there that night. Nonetheless, he did say I appeared angry and I am being more cognizant for it not to happen, except if it's part of sex/foreplay. BTW, he does get his fair share to get me to submit (but really totally different story).

As for our behaviors, I guess trouble just follows wherever we go but between him and I we're good. Considering what all of you have said (and again specifically to @IkuTube) I am acknowledging that if I want to know, I would also have to deal with the answer and respect that. Past few days we have been hanging out like Siamese twins and when we were at the Mall, ran into some people he knows. Respect that he had the courage to tell me, he had group sex with that guy and then we saw a poster and said had sex with him too (slut!)... and that poster-guy was the best sex he ever had until I came along. Nonetheless, I was totally cool with all this and you know what, he went to the extent of saying he still had the videos in his chat logs and he showed to me. I was pretty much turned on to watch. No judgement, just turned on. It was wow. Tempted to ask if he could send it to me.. seriously.. damn good jerk-off material, but that'll be disrespectful. Anyway, he did say to share mine and I say, let's see further down the road.

So I can conclude we're both perverts and I told, let's just embrace it as long it is just between the both of us.

Love and attraction sometimes do change things. He was always adamant that he is a bottom now. He was a top and then slowly found he found it difficult to maintain an erection for penetration or that he cums too fast.... now seems we're both equally bottoming for each other. He has no problem maintaining an erection...

BTW I know it is ridiculous to post such things as my personal life in here, however I am doing it anonymously. Not an attention seeker, just really seeking advise on all these.

If this story can make it into a short gay drama, do ensure to give credit to this site and a donation to it too.

so, in a nutshell, you have decided to not take any of the advice given and to carry on living for the DRAMA and attention, like a couple of teenagers…. Good luck to you both!

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 5:55 PM, Guest UltraSheer said:

I am really glad you guys watch out on signs of abuse or domestic violence. I am firm to say that no such things happens. I have asked him over and over again basis your feedback if I over-reacted and he did say it's cool as he might react the same way too. I did ask over and over again if I was violent, he said yeah I can appear aggressive and I did tell him it was suppose to be an intro to heh.. u know but it just went everywhere but there that night. Nonetheless, he did say I appeared angry and I am being more cognizant for it not to happen, except if it's part of sex/foreplay. BTW, he does get his fair share to get me to submit (but really totally different story).

As for our behaviors, I guess trouble just follows wherever we go but between him and I we're good. Considering what all of you have said (and again specifically to @IkuTube) I am acknowledging that if I want to know, I would also have to deal with the answer and respect that. Past few days we have been hanging out like Siamese twins and when we were at the Mall, ran into some people he knows. Respect that he had the courage to tell me, he had group sex with that guy and then we saw a poster and said had sex with him too (slut!)... and that poster-guy was the best sex he ever had until I came along. Nonetheless, I was totally cool with all this and you know what, he went to the extent of saying he still had the videos in his chat logs and he showed to me. I was pretty much turned on to watch. No judgement, just turned on. It was wow. Tempted to ask if he could send it to me.. seriously.. damn good jerk-off material, but that'll be disrespectful. Anyway, he did say to share mine and I say, let's see further down the road.

So I can conclude we're both perverts and I told, let's just embrace it as long it is just between the both of us.

Love and attraction sometimes do change things. He was always adamant that he is a bottom now. He was a top and then slowly found he found it difficult to maintain an erection for penetration or that he cums too fast.... now seems we're both equally bottoming for each other. He has no problem maintaining an erection...

BTW I know it is ridiculous to post such things as my personal life in here, however I am doing it anonymously. Not an attention seeker, just really seeking advise on all these.

If this story can make it into a short gay drama, do ensure to give credit to this site and a donation to it too.

Haha, maybe this ultrasheer is sharing his story to get us to get excited about his violence. He is into S n M lah guys.

He admits he is a pervert.

Steve5380 · February 7, 2022

Hi UltraShear, I just read your ultraLong post from Friday.

Reading it, could make one sick of the stomach. I feel like asking: Are you a masochist? You probably are, together with your 27yo. It also seems to be a master/slave relationship. Very curious.

It cannot be ruled out the possibility of love between you two. And you are also well aware that your 27yo. has no problems having sex with others. If so, why not accept reality and have an open relationship? There are ways to do this without so much conflicts and pains and slapping, but with success and happiness.

You must understand that no one should have total possession of another human being. Your bf was born a free person. If he loves you so much that he is willing to sacrifice his freedom to this love and be totally faithful, this is his choice. If he does not want to be totally faithful, but still wants this love, this is also his choice. And you have the choice to accept this or not. But what you definitely don't want to see you doing is digging into his life, spying, forcing him "to come clean", slapping him because he lies. Don't you now that it is YOU who is forcing him to lie? You should NOT interrogate him about what he prefers to keep confidential. IF YOU LOVE HIM! But if you don't love him but love so much yourself that you do anything to satisfy your sick curiosity, then you will mistreat him and never have a happy relationship.

And you are 40 years old! We are far from perfect at this age, but we should be capable of sustaining a decent partnership without constant conflicts and fights and separations and reconciliations, one after another. Our life should not imitate the classical tragedies of the literature.

On 2/4/2022 at 4:05 AM, Guest UltraSheer said:

Fuck man you put it that way but I wouldn't have done if he didn't lie when he was supposed to come clean....

If you had not indicted and interrogated him, he would not have had to come half-clean and lie.

On 2/7/2022 at 3:55 AM, Guest UltraSheer said:

BTW I know it is ridiculous to post such things as my personal life in here, however I am doing it anonymously. Not an attention seeker, just really seeking advise on all these. If this story can make it into a short gay drama, do ensure to give credit to this site and a donation to it too.

There is nothing wrong in posting personal things here. We are all anonymous, hopefully a Member with an identifiable anonymity (no, this is not a contradiction) so that we can help each other and maybe follow up.

Hopefully the advice you receive is helpful, and you can do little corrections here and there, like in a feedback loop, to guide your path to a happy life.

February 22, 2022

Hey guys. Thanks for all your feedback. I did post a response to @Steve5380 but it just didn’t go through.

First I can’t accept open relationship. We have exchanged thoughts over time that open relationship is not something we both want. I did also admit when I was single, I was too a big slut. Fun and satisfying IN the moment but doesn’t fill the gap sought in life. So we are on the same wavelength on that. Though probing deeper, I do also know he wishes to explore more things in different countries and regions. Which I was privileged to enjoy. Did remind him jokingly, he no longer has that chance. So deal with the cards you’re dealt with. No one can have their cake and eat it too. When I was in that situation, I did also lose out on opportunity cost.

Updating on you all. Things been going on well. I still dwell and live in that horrid past but I don’t show it as much. I am just a big thinker and lack trust in gay community considering how horrid I could also be in the past.

But things are good. Might be too premature to say all is fine and dandy but I can say things looks pretty healthy but to stress still premature to say.

I would wanna keep this post alive and use it as a sounding board. If you read through, I don’t have much friends I can talk about this. Either they fall for me or stabbing me behind my back. (Pragmatic in approach, less friends, less drama, less presents to buy at Christmas. Haha).

God bless.

February 22, 2022

To add. I don’t crave attention nor drama. At the beginning it was sweet when guys were after me and it was flattering. But shot got real when all this fell on me. Then it just got overwhelming.

I acknowledge when I was finding it sweet, others were seeking security and comfort from me. But once I made a choice, I should TRY and follow though. I can’t act like a flake and based on feelings but much rather on obligations.

some will try stay I am the flake. But just wished I could explain my thought process.

April 3, 2022

I am back. After my last post … I wished to say things got better for me but that would be a lie. It didn’t get worst. There’s more trust and cooperation between us two as we learn about each other.

Just the screwed up part is that weekly I am having my mental torture thinking about him and my x-bestie hooking up behind my back. Just keeps killing me. Day in and day out when we are off about working, I just keep thinking about those instances, compared logs and time stamps of the conversation all ways to understand the different state of mind I was in. The only thing I do is to just fan the anger and then go for drinks and start my verbal or WhatsApp diarrhea to him. But more recently to the x-bestie who is being wise by not responding to me.

Last week I did ask the x-bestie for the chat logs between him and my bf which though I know I am not privy - I tried my luck. He did share the next day showing screenshots with missing pieces in the conversation and eventually showed me a blank conversation to show he has deleted them all. That just fueled even more anger that when honesty should triumph, but lies still linger. It is odd behavior from my perspective. No offer to nego and talk but just to do what he happily feels is right. Anyway, I got upset and started rambling and beers didn’t help to maintain diplomacy.

it got to a point this week that the bf asked me that we should go counseling. Couple’s counseling. Oh boy… he keeps saying that no matter how much he tries and y and do, if I am intoxicated, there is no reasoning. And the mental torture I put myself through isn’t healthy for me nor for him nor for us.

Any advise to share?

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Relationship advise please? Inter-generational

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