At Wit's End

[Guest Lost]

met a guy last weekend, in a local sauna, and we somehow clicked. been going out with him almost every other day and we chatted on the phone everyday. he is 'in love' with me [he would always say that] and though i like him, i wanted to go slow b4 i could commit myself totally.

he seems nice and would tell me almost everything - from work to friends. however, this last incident is throwing me off the wall - perhaps, it has to do with my principle. he has been talking to me for the last 2 days about his financial debts - one is about his insurance premium, and secondly about some medical expenses incurred by his family member [he told me it was for his dad].

in a way, he is asking me to help him - kinda loan him to ease his problems. though i told him that his insurance policy can be converted to a paid-up policy and hence stop the premium temporarily, i felt he was kinda pissed when i 'acting smart'.

the medical expense is rather a huge sum and i told him i am in no position to help.

now, i wonder about his sincerity. i've heard of people who could be [shamelessly] create a sad story just to get some cash to sustain their livelihood. as much as i am aware of that, i cant help but feel like wanting to help him - probably just loan [which i think it is as good as giving] a certain amount.

alternatively, i feel like moving on yet my heart is making my legs so heavy to move on.

jialat liow!

[oralb]

Lost i think you already have ans your question.

did he specifically ask for a loan or you presumed that by talking to you on his financial problems, he is asking for one?

you know a person for a week, would you have loan to him?

in cases like this, i would take it like charity, if i loan to the person, i will take it as donating, meaning i am not expecting to collect it back.

so if the $$$ is willing you means and you really like to help him, that maybe the mentality i am suggesting.

[Guest Guest]

there is also another guy using similar sob story known by the following

Rxx L.

[Guest Guest]

typo error. it is

Rxx O.

[Guest Lost]

Lost i think you already have ans your question.

did he specifically ask for a loan or you presumed that by talking to you on his financial problems, he is asking for one?

you know a person for a week, would you have loan to him?

in cases like this, i would take it like charity, if i loan to the person, i will take it as donating, meaning i am not expecting to collect it back.

so if the $$$ is willing you means and you really like to help him, that maybe the mentality i am suggesting.

thanks oralb,

yes indeed that the answer is already within me. i am willing to help a friend provided that i already knew him/her. in my current case, i hardly know him - a week is too brief. in such a case, i am having more doubts than allowing my sincerity at works here.

the only statement he made was 'do you think you can help me?'. i didnt say anything yet but most of our conversation would centre on his self-pity - in a way, it is making me feel as though, without a solution to his financial debts, our relationship is being affected.

i did ask if his other family members or his other closed friends can ease the situation. what i got was 'you dont understand my situation. i dont want to burden them.' personally, i feel that is a little unreasonable - afterall, i am only so 'new' to him.

by the way, the amount he mentioned is not small - it's 5-digits.

i wonder what would others do in the same situation?

[oralb]

hmm... he doesnt wanna burden his family and close frens but chose to "burden" you?

isnt that a irony?

by doing so, you are not his "family or close frens" coz if you are, he wouldnt want to burden you.

but if you are not his "family or close frens" why would you lend him a 5 digits sum?

arhhh... i am just arguing for arguement sake

"If you argue correctly, you are never wrong."

- From the movie "Thank you for Smoking" (all should watch it)

[quest4mnm]

Don't lend him directly, since he said the medical bill go wif him to the hospital and foot the bill directly to the hospital, if u really want to help him. As for the insurance I don't think u should help him. Think carefully n be smart.

[Guest Guest]

i felt he was kinda pissed when i 'acting smart'.

He wants to borrow a huge sum of money and he is acting pissed?

If you expect to your money back, then you gotta check if he has the ability to pay. That's why banks require proof of income when they lend you money. My reading is he is scamming you.

Let your real head make the decision not the other one. Or else you will be sorry later.

[Guest Guest]

I am the above guest.

I think he lost money on football. I personally knew a young guy 28 years old losing $85,000 during this world cup. The poor parents gotta sell their flat to pay his debts to the bookies.

Btw, don't give your home or office numbers to this guy. Else, next time he might make trouble for you when you want your money back (that is if you were to lend him the money).

[skylancer]

I am the above guest.

I think he lost money on football. I personally knew a young guy 28 years old losing $85,000 during this world cup. The poor parents gotta sell their flat to pay his debts to the bookies.

Btw, don't give your home or office numbers to this guy. Else, next time he might make trouble for you when you want your money back (that is if you were to lend him the money).

true... i agree...

that why i dont lent money anymore... in case such thing happen to me again..

[bukitpanjang]

there's no concrete rule about when and why you should lend your money...

its really up to u...

if u think u will regret...

then don't lend at all.

but to be honest... just knowing someone for such a short period... and never gone through thick and thin together... i don't think i would be comfortable to give anything more than $5...

cos more often then not... this money loaned will never come back...

but this is me la...

(the other thing is...

i've noted a lot of my older gay friends... tends to get a lot of those young chaps asking for money in some form or another... taxi fares ok la... no big deal...

but the stories are far and varied... and always pulls at the hearts nonetheless...

i dunno la... but... as much as possible... maybe we're just too pampered hence we feel we can get away with anything and end up with debts, and the best solution is to get someone else to pay the debt for us...

and more recently also... middle aged guys... bad business etc etc need to borrow money etc etc from people they barely know for more than a month...)

[Guest ben]

hi

May i share with you my personal philosophy on "lending" money - never expect to see the money you lend out.

No matter what the "borrower" says - "its temporary", "I can return in by the end of the month", "so and so will pay me and I can pay you" etc etc...

I've had many experiences when the borrower wants to borrow money from you, there will one thousand and one promises of how and when he will return the money.

And in most cases, once the money is given, the borrower will make one thousand and one excuses why he cannot return the money to you.

So if you have spare cash, and you dont mind helping him, whether his problems are real or not, then go ahead. Otherwise, dont even lend him the money, or lend him what you can "spare".

If he gets angry with you for not helping, then dont even bother to continue with this relationship. As clearly and plainly, he is only good to you because of the fact that he is counting on you to lend him the money.

Still not convinced? Ask yourself, why you? What right has he got to be angry with you. Who are you to him? Better still who is he to you? What do you owe him?

Be clear headed. Think with your head (the one on your shoulder) and not your heart.

[mature40s]

I agree with Ben's philosophy on lending money - never expect to see the money you lent out. If the borrower returns the money, then it is a "bonus". I loaned someone I knew from the chatroom a 5-figure sum. When I chased him for the money, he has a million excuses and finally he totally ignored my calls. On the other hand, I have other chatroom friends who returned the money they borrowed from me. Some of them were really in financial trouble. So if you have spare cash and can afford to lose it, then it may be worthwhile helping someone. However, we have to differentiate those who are worth helping and those who are not (because we are not millionaire). But I won't lend someone I hardly know.

[VOCE]

If i were you....

I won't lend to him, but i would keen to see him showing his true colour after me turning him down.

If i have extra money or spare money, I would donate the money to the charity because i no dobt on them. I know that they won't misuse any cent of my hard earn money.

It is not that i am heartless, but this type of story do happen every day.

As what ben said earlier... use your brain to decide...not your heart.

[Guest Lost]

to all,

please accept my heartfelt gratitude for all the advises, and sharing of your experiences.

i told myself that once i open up about my issue, i'll get 'you-are-fool' label. personally, that is what i thought of myself if i were to give/loan him the money. i still cannot convince myself to see his sincerity - though, i must admit that he is such sweet talker.

one week is too short for me to appreciate a true friendship. BUT, my conscience is also bugging me, and my head [ok, 50% above shoulder one; and 50% that wakes up automatically every morning] is struggling against my what's-true-what's-not.

we had dinner yesterday. as expected, he started talking about the problem again - told me that his mum failed to get financial help elsewhere. i told him that a hospital cannot be so hard as to force full payment - that there is always a way for instalment payment. hahaha - and what i got was 'you had such experience?!'.

as i was prepared to face any consequences, i handed him $250 - ok, it was more charity on my part. i told him my reasons and reservations - and like him, i made a story up to say that i am financing my younger brother's tertiary education [this is funny even as i am sharing with you guys here!].

of cos, i was like hoping he would decline the cash -- oh well. we departed in not a good usual way yesterday -- the last thing he said to me was, 'guess you dont trust me'. hmm, so much to prick my conscience!

and what i got from him so far today is just an sms saying 'busy with family stuff. talk later'

[Riko]

Well, from what I can see, it's pretty obvious what he's doing.

Trust build up over time... at least up to a year for a couple to fully trust each other. And he's complaining that you don't trust him after a week of meeting? Well, if you were 18 years old, I would understand why he'd say that... Thinking that you're naive enough to buy into his story.

And now that he has some sort of money from you... it may not be the 5 digit sum that he wanted, but at least he got some... he's giving you that stupid cold shoulder silent treatment thing? Isn't he even grateful about that $250 you gave him?

Dude, if you don't want to complicate your life in the future, I say just break it off.

Small little things like this could radically complicate matters, let's say, 1 or 2 years down the road. Heard of the Butterfly Effect? A butterfly flaps its wings in one place and creates a tornado in another?

Don't let your problems snowball. Pack up and leave while you're still ahead and cut your losses.

[Guest Money ! No Ways]

A person who just know you and like you a lot will not ask for any favour especially lending money. If this guy is really that broken, I will only can lend him small money for lunch and transport, that all, and it will not always be, he has to work and independent. I cannot play sugar Daddy.

Some guys asked for small favour to create a connection with you, example borrow your magazine, VCD etc... that is OK. When you lend something to someone you love, it make you feel that this person is still with you and would like to keep in touch with you on a long term basis. It assure it is not a one night stand.

DON'T LEND HIM ANY MONEY !.

[Cool]

I think this is definitely unreasonable of him. How can he say that you dun trust him when you lent him $250?

Basically, I am sure that your $250 is gone for good. And his sms of "busy with family stuff. talk later" is to make your feel guilty and make you feel that if you want better attitude from him, you got to lend him more money!

I think you should just stop calling or smsing him. Make him know that you are fine with him ignoring you. And you are glad not to see him again coz if not he will borrow money from you again.

If he is a sincere friend, he won't ignore for not helping him. And whats more, you already lent him $250. That is not a small amount already. If he ignore you coz of that, then be it. I won't want a friend like this. I will still get back my $250. I dun think he deserves the $250.

[Guest Guest]

Let's face it. The guy whom we are all talking about may be reading all these postings this very moment. :hat:

[Guest Lost]

Let's face it. The guy whom we are all talking about may be reading all these postings this very moment. :hat:

hi guest,

indeed, i am very much aware that there might be possibility that he reads the postings - though, he did mention to me that he is not much a PC guy. ironically, for a non-PC enthusiast, he got me to cam sex few times :oops:

let me reason out the intention of my posting:

1. it has to do with my disappointment that some people can resort to open up about their financial debts to someone whom they just met. it is fine to talk and share about life predicament and the regrets on past actions but to associate a life downfall in relations to debts [whether true or false] and hoping that the-someone-new can help is rather out of tune.

2. i am in my mid 30s, and so is this guy. the fact that we met in sauna showed that we are capable to stand on our two feet - that we use our minds to steer our livelihood. personally, i feel when one is past 30, he should be financially wise - that we ought to balance our expenses and savings.

3. that when i was approached to assist, it actually hit on me about his loyalty to his friends. i cast aside family support as i do understand that there are people, amongst us, that dont really get along with our own family. i wonder why didnt he seek help from his friends, if he has any in the first place. true, i might be jumping in conclusion here and perhaps, he had done so but none could help.

4. i decided to post to share with fellow friends and to hear on more opinions. i sought advise from a friend earlier, and though he firmly told me NO, he did ask me to write my story here in this forum as to hear a common voice. indeed, he is right [to this friend, haha, ok ok - u win! dinner on me!]

i am closing this chapter for now -- he has not called, which is unusual. perhaps, he read and was pissed. but then again, i am pissed too however, i am not dwelling on the dollar lost. it had been given and i could only hope it helps; either with his family problem and/or self reflection towards a better person.

once again, my heartfelt thanks to all who contributed to clear my mind. cheers!

[oralb]

well some lessons have to pay to learn

[Guest Lost]

well some lessons have to pay to learn

haha, u so bad

u right though, good lessons dont come cheap .. but lucky me, a life lesson only cost $250 .. hehehe

[oralb]

sori lah

but from begining you already know he maybe up to get $$$ from you. and yet you are willing to part with $250 to exchange for "dont trust me" comment.

i would have take back the $250 after hearing that.

you are not his mother

you are not his bf

you dont own him a living.

[Guest cooler]

i also encounter someone from the friXXX recently who keep harping on his family problems n father is warded seriously ill in hospital n require money.....

he also told me how his family had scrimped and save for his father operations.

so far he had not asked money from me but i can guess he will ask from me soon

seriously i doubt whether his story is true.

he live ard bukit timah area. and his name is ry***.

[skylancer]

hmm... no matter how.. it is the best dont lent money to anyone... unless he just live next to u.. but sometimes it is hard to tell whether he/she will return the money or not.. like my 2nd ex.. til now he havent return back my money since oct 04.. but i will rush him for the money... :smokin: :smokin:

[Guest Lost]

indeed, i am very much aware that there might be possibility that he reads the postings - though, he did mention to me that he is not much a PC guy.  ironically, for a non-PC enthusiast, he got me to cam sex few times  :oops:

Hmmm if that guy is such an aXXhole... is it possible that he has recorded you on CAM and might use it to extort you in the future?

wah, dun scare leh

it's my motto that whenever i cam[sex], there'll be no face shown. to show face, i'll rather chat on the phone

he did ask me to show face the first time, but i told him 'either no face and stop playing or we'll meet for quickie now'.

[Guest Lost]

i also encounter someone from the friXXX recently who keep harping on his family problems n father is warded seriously ill in hospital n require money.....

he also told me how his family had scrimped and save for his father operations.

so far he had not asked money from me but i can guess he will ask from me soon

seriously i doubt whether his story is true.

he live ard bukit timah area. and his name is ry***.

my heart goes to you, buddy.

read comment by others and put your head up, and be wise.

i often tell myself that money is not easily earned - that my family does not own IR, that i don't print money, that my money plants dont bear the [our ex] president's face. in such a situation, there is a burden when we think about our old age. hence, spend wisely and always remember that our days are not all sunshine till the day we are gone.

charity starts from within; and the person that needs it most is ourselves.

[Riko]

Well said.

*applause*