Mrt Priority Seats

[phoenixorder]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, rude or anything

But have you noticed that some senior citizens are too over-reliant on those priority seats?

I know that people are suppose to give up their seats for them if they are seating on those seats.

But some senior citizens purposely perform some actions to hint to people that they are suppose to give it up to them.

I today saw an elderly lady purposely squeezing through the crowd in the mrt, to stand in front of a man that was seating on a priority seat. After standing in front of him, the guy didn't budge. Maybe he didn't see her cause he was indulged in playing his psp and was wearing a cap. After that, the elderly purposely moved a few steps such that her shoes were touching his shoes. But the guy still didn't respond. The elderly had no choice but to stand until some people that were seating alighted at some random mrt.

I guess the guy was a china guy and didn't really know about the ethics of the Singapore MRT so he didn't give up his seat. Or maybe he was too engrossed in his game.

Even though we are suppose to respect the elderly, I still feel that the elderly should not force people to give up their seats unless they really really really cannot stand or have alot of things to carry. If people won't give up their seats to you, no point in making a scene in public.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone and I'm just giving my opinion.

Do you guys witness or experienced anything like that in public transportation?

[Foreign Talent]

Well if the lady really wanted the seat, she should've just opened her mouth and asked for it. You don't ask, you don't get.

[suckling_pig]

Many people actually know about the seats but pretend to sleep, use the phone etc just to avoid giving up the seat.

Personally i take the opposite attitude to you. My parents are 76 years old and i know how much they need the seats. But fortunately mine have been mainly good experiences, people are getting more gracious and even giving up non priority/ reserved seating when they see an old person.

[Phil]

I was surprised recently, when a young guy proposed his seat to me in the métro...Suddenly feeling old!

[suckling_pig]

I was surprised recently, when a young guy proposed his seat to me in the métro...Suddenly feeling old!

LOL !

Ca va, Phil? How old are u btw? Or is it rude for me to ask?

Yeh, i've been addressed as "uncle" enough times that i no longer bat an eyelid!

Edited November 5, 2011 by suckling_pig

[Guest Self-centered Young People]

I am 50 yrs old and have given up my seat, even if it isn't a "priority seat", to older women especially a Muslim. Culturally I think Muslim women are supposed to be honoured and respected by men. I know they appreciate the respect.

I find some elderly Chinese ladies very aggressive. I was once pushed out of the way by this one lady to get an "ordinary seat once out in Woodlands.

I get quite annoyed at people younger than me (20's or 30's) that are so insensitive or selfish that they refuse to give up their seat to an older person than me. I feel that there should be a "pecking order" based on age. Sometimes I refuse to give up my seat because I think because the younger person who is sitting across from me should be offering there seat before me. The sad thing is it will only be worse once these young people are old and in need of a seat.

Moreover, I see parents with school age children taking up seats that elderly people could use. The children could sit on their laps but that doesn't cross their minds. Unfortunately, I think parents are not properly raising their kids to be courteous citizens.

I think the problem is there are a lot of Singaporeans who have to work long hard hours to be able to afford their electronic gadgets, designer clothing, fashion accessories and trips. It's a case they are "burnt out", "disconnected" and void of any compassion or humanity. It's going to get a lot worse for them as they age I fear.

[suckling_pig]

Well i think it is all a matter of cultural awareness and graciousness. I was very surprised in some of the smaller cities in the US when i stand by the road kerb waiting for an opportunity to cross, when the cars actually stop and the drivers wave me on to cross. In a different place like Israel, you can stand on the kerb next to a zebra crossing and NO car will stop. Later i found out that in Israel, you have to step ONTO the road, then the cars would stop. I am not saying anybody is better than any other, i just observe that culture plays a large part.

In Sg, if we do indeed want a more caring and considerate society, it will take time. And it always begins with ME.

[Alfred]

Do you realized that there are NO more priority seats in MRT now?

They already changed in to Reserved seats.

The difference between them is you can still sit on priority seat if the train is empty, but you have to give it to the elderly or handicap.

For reserved seats, they already reserved for the elderly and handicap, I don't understand why people still want to sit there. Do you go to a resturant or concert and sit on their reserved seats?

[PaterTenebrarum]

There have been times when I offered my seat to an elderly person or an expectant mother- only to have it refused. So I sat back down.

There was once this time when I was one of those who were standing when a really old woman who appeared to be abt 70 boarded the train. Somebody got off and this other woman in her 40s RUSHED to the seat and sat down instead. So, I went up to the younger woman, told her that I thought that the older one should get it and she sheepishly got off. Just open yr mouth, really.

[PaterTenebrarum]

Well i think it is all a matter of cultural awareness and graciousness. I was very surprised in some of the smaller cities in the US when i stand by the road kerb waiting for an opportunity to cross, when the cars actually stop and the drivers wave me on to cross. In a different place like Israel, you can stand on the kerb next to a zebra crossing and NO car will stop. Later i found out that in Israel, you have to step ONTO the road, then the cars would stop. I am not saying anybody is better than any other, i just observe that culture plays a large part.

In Sg, if we do indeed want a more caring and considerate society, it will take time. And it always begins with ME.

In Canada, people will hold open the doors for the strangers behind. You dont see that here.

[darthhell]

Well i think it is all a matter of cultural awareness and graciousness. I was very surprised in some of the smaller cities in the US when i stand by the road kerb waiting for an opportunity to cross, when the cars actually stop and the drivers wave me on to cross. In a different place like Israel, you can stand on the kerb next to a zebra crossing and NO car will stop. Later i found out that in Israel, you have to step ONTO the road, then the cars would stop. I am not saying anybody is better than any other, i just observe that culture plays a large part.

In Sg, if we do indeed want a more caring and considerate society, it will take time. And it always begins with ME.

i fully agree wz u... it will takes time and more educate...

[darthhell]

Once i give up my seat to an expecting mother.. the moment i stand up to signal tat lady (she was standing at quite a distance ).. another aunty quickly rush to my seat. Then i got no choice but to tell tat aunty tat i gave up tis seat for tat pregant lady.. tat aunty say sori and stood up.. well she feel embaress as everyone is looking at her... and me... feel great for speaking up..

[suckling_pig]

In Canada, people will hold open the doors for the strangers behind. You dont see that here.

I used to, until the grumpy faced woman walked past and didn't even acknowledge. She prob thought i was her doorman!!! (but i always smile and thank the doorman anyway)

Going a little off topic here, but

Its funny tho, have you noticed that if u hold door/lift open, 40% of men will acknowledge, but only 10% of women will.

Also have you notice that women treat their maids much more gruffly then men?

[PaterTenebrarum]

Most maid abuse offences are also committed by women. But we are digressing from the main topic, no?

[suckling_pig]

Most maid abuse offences are also committed by women. But we are digressing from the main topic, no?

Mea culpa

[abang]

Well I take the purple line to work.

Most of the time, commuters obey the rule.

Office employees are generally very civic-minded.

Even to the point of leaving an empty seat till an old frail lady/man arrives.

[Guest jayy]

Isn't holding the door simple courtesy? Just like if you're in the lift next to the buttons, you hold the door open for everyone else and then leave. I don't do it expecting any acknowledgement.

When on the train, I don't bother to take a seat. Unless the carriage is really empty.

[suckling_pig]

Isn't holding the door simple courtesy? Just like if you're in the lift next to the buttons, you hold the door open for everyone else and then leave. I don't do it expecting any acknowledgement.

When on the train, I don't bother to take a seat. Unless the carriage is really empty.

Holding the lift open is a kindness, acknowledging their kindness is a common courtesy.

Some people dont hold the lifts open, they just rush out. What PT is referring to about holding doors open are doors at shopping ctrs etc.

Do we take things for granted that we don't pay attention to the little niceties? When was the last time you heard a diner thank the cleaner clearing the table at a foodcourt? Or observed a person changing a seat on a train or bus so that a family could sit together?

Its not because Sg people resist it, i think they are very paiseh because they haven't seen it before. I have helped open the door for women carrying big shopping bags, and they were just too stunned to know how to respond.

Some people might say it is a sad state of affairs, but i prefer to look on the bright side of things. i am happy to say i see it more now than previously

Edited November 6, 2011 by suckling_pig

[Guest darknezz]

i kindda disagree with phoenixorder, I feel that the old lady just doesnt know how to express herself. in the first place, the healthy guy shouldnt be on that seat. the MRT now uses pictorials, the pictures are obvious, therefore, not aware that it is a reserved seat is not an excuse

personally I like a man who has the gracious to give up his seat to someone more deserving

[gstc82]

in the first place, unless you are elderly, with child, sick or challanged, you shd not be seating in the reserved seat at all. another uniquely singaporean habbit, aspire to be 1st world parliament but not first world mentally? even in taiwan, see how many death stares or scoldings you will get if u seat in a seat ment for the elderly. too many times i've seen so many people seat in those seats not ment for them or failed to give seats to those in need. i noticed its the women who failed to give up the seats more often than men.

[Guest angry bird]

When. I see youngsters seating on piroirty seats to play with handphone or pretend to see or actully sleep, it really upset me.

Has a different opion against the thread starter. Why cant we just our seats up for elderly or senior citizen or people that need help.

If the senior lady hinted and not getting a response, maybe the thread starter should observe and see if that senior really requires the sear instead of grouping her under Ugly singaporean behaviour. Alternatively, if she is really one of the ugly singaporean's members, then maybe we can ignore her.

Be patient, Be gracious, Be Polite, Be a kind person to help the needy.

[Guest Guest]

Now most people avoid Reserved seats like the plague, when a few years ago, it's like the most sought after seat due to being at the side and need not squeeze with people on the left/right. Haha!

Must be due to STOMP. Maybe next time can wear paper bag over the head so got STOMPed also no face being shown.

[phoenixorder]

I agree that people who sit in the priority seat should be people who are in need of it.

But the old lady appeared very healthy.

I'm just saying that people should not be over-reliant on these so-called privileges.

What if when you become an elderly, take the mrt and no one gives up their seat for you.

I guess it's all about the person's character.

Some people will do things to get what they want, while some will just forget about it and move on

[Blissfull]

Why are these old people taking trains anyway?

Just asking.

[Guest jayy]

^Because not everyone can afford a cab?

[glowingember]

MRT is public transport so it's meant for everyone. It doesn't mean the world stops once one grows old and it's great to see older folks being mobile.

In Seoul, when a passenger sits on a reserved seat not meant for him, he would be told off and he would be apologetic. In Japan, the train staff wore extra weights on their arms and legs to simulate the experience of older people when they are taking the train so that the staff could empathize and design better system for the older folks.

Sometimes a mark of graciousness of a society is the way the government and its citizens treat their less abled, less fortunate and the elderly.

[Guest Guest 2]

In a country with non caring leaders and their self serving attitude, you die your business, no free lunch.

Why is it even surprising that the people are also like that?

[Marineboy]

In Canada, people will hold open the doors for the strangers behind. You dont see that here.

Next time walk behind me...i sure hold for you one :whistle:

I also dont need the thank you :oops:

[derryfawne]

I think it's clear that these seats are designated for them, so it's natural for oldies to expect that the young ones to give up their seats.

Most of the time, these oldies do not quite 'force' people out of their seats, they'd probably just move towards the seat, which should be enough to hint people. And if you have basic courtesy, you would give up your seats once you catch the hint.

I used to bring my grandma to visit my grandpa in the hospital on a regular basis. Sometimes we have to remember that with senior citizens, pregnant women, and handicapped... it's not just about resting their easily-fatigue butt off, but there's a risk of serious harm if they fall when the train is shaking also. The youngs should just give up, really.

Edited November 6, 2011 by derryfawne

[tterrynick]

Why are these old people taking trains anyway?

Just asking.

strange that some people actually make such comment... old people need to get around too, don't they? one day, we would grow old too, unless we die young, of course....

anyway, personally, i just don't sit down when i take a ride on the mrt.

[Phil]

LOL !

Ca va, Phil? How old are u btw? Or is it rude for me to ask?

Yeh, i've been addressed as "uncle" enough times that i no longer bat an eyelid!

Merci, ça va, Suckling Pig.

For any personal details, would you PM me if you don't mind? Or would you prefer me to PM you?

[Blissfull]

I think we should have have seatless cabins and designated seated ones for these people. World peace.

And of course I am being sarcastic.

And all you self-righteous and moral-ful people: Giving up a seat once only allows them to sit for that ride.

Why don't you all do something that allows them to sit EVERY SINGLE TIME? :clap:

P.S. I do give up my seat to people who needs them even though I say all these.

[Phil]

Well i think it is all a matter of cultural awareness and graciousness. I was very surprised in some of the smaller cities in the US when i stand by the road kerb waiting for an opportunity to cross, when the cars actually stop and the drivers wave me on to cross. In a different place like Israel, you can stand on the kerb next to a zebra crossing and NO car will stop. Later i found out that in Israel, you have to step ONTO the road, then the cars would stop. I am not saying anybody is better than any other, i just observe that culture plays a large part.

In Sg, if we do indeed want a more caring and considerate society, it will take time. And it always begins with ME.

Just try to cross in Italy (or Mexico, or even sometimes in France) and tell me whether you are still alive...

But you are right, it's interesting to watch different cultures!

[Phil]

Holding the lift open is a kindness, acknowledging their kindness is a common courtesy.

Some people dont hold the lifts open, they just rush out. What PT is referring to about holding doors open are doors at shopping ctrs etc.

Do we take things for granted that we don't pay attention to the little niceties? When was the last time you heard a diner thank the cleaner clearing the table at a foodcourt? Or observed a person changing a seat on a train or bus so that a family could sit together?

Its not because Sg people resist it, i think they are very paiseh because they haven't seen it before. I have helped open the door for women carrying big shopping bags, and they were just too stunned to know how to respond.

Some people might say it is a sad state of affairs, but i prefer to look on the bright side of things. i am happy to say i see it more now than previously

You are right, better seeing the glass half full than half empty (do you say that also in English?).

And even in France, some people continue to hold the doors (not only for women^^), leave their seat to elder, disabled, pregnant women, and thank the waiter when he looks after you (plus a tip, of course). I suppose it's a matter of education more than culture. Parent's responsibility...

But I am not sure of the trend for the long term...

[suckling_pig]

Merci, ça va, Suckling Pig. For any personal details, would you PM me if you don't mind? Or would you prefer me to PM you?

Phil,

Please forgive me, I don't mean to be nosey. I just perceived alot of wisdom in your posts so I guessed you where older than the average BWer. I also thought that you were perhaps a Singaporean who lives in France.

Btw, I have an uncle who lives in Leon I think. The last time I saw him was when he visited Sg with his French wife many years back. Funny, the thing I remember about our dinner together at a seafood restaurant was that I asked what she would call chopsticks in French. And she said "baguette" !! So I suppose baguette means any short straight thing ?

Anyways, my warm regards, to you !

[suckling_pig]

I suppose it's a matter of education more than culture. Parent's responsibility... .

Absolutely true ... Education, and perhaps even more important, the parents' upbringing !

[keyboard]

I have a question to all, what would you do to encourage people to give up ANY seat on a MRT train, hold doors for people, or even just saying Hi to your neighbours?

Seriously, I do think "reserved seats/priority seats" are a joke. If people are civic mindful enough, any seat is a reserved seat.

I been to canada, and yes, cars stop and wave for you to cross the roads anywhere. What makes that work? anyone?

[Phil]

Phil,

Please forgive me, I don't mean to be nosey. I just perceived alot of wisdom in your posts so I guessed you where older than the average BWer. I also thought that you were perhaps a Singaporean who lives in France.

Btw, I have an uncle who lives in Leon I think. The last time I saw him was when he visited Sg with his French wife many years back. Funny, the thing I remember about our dinner together at a seafood restaurant was that I asked what she would call chopsticks in French. And she said "baguette" !! So I suppose baguette means any short straight thing ?

Anyways, my warm regards, to you !

Thanks!

No, not nosey at all; and I'm too old, but I don't think I'm really wise.

I PM'ed you for details...

You seem to speak French?

Cordialement

[Guest Ka Na Sai]

I saw a young boy about 4 yo? running and playing around while waiting for MRT. When the door opened, the mother and the boy went in but couldn't find a seat. The boy quickly asked the mother to carry him and she did. People feel bad and gave way but the mother took the seat instead. Not only elderly, some young boy also know how to feign pity.

It has became a culture and some "elderly" feign pity all BECAUSE OF STOMP - the busy-body portal. I can tell, unless you know that old man or woman has gout problems and could not walk properly, they are the one who deserve the seat. Talking about culture, wait till you meet an indian foreigner in MRT, you get the drift. The guy dragged pram filled with grocery and carry their child in his hand than expect to be given seat. Why not ask his wife to carry grocery and put their child in the pram instead. You see all these craps in MRT. That is why I will never go out during crowded times. The air is polluted and our legs are damned tired walking, yet we need to give up to undeserving people because of STOMPERS.

[happy.99]

you know what? it all voiced down to the word "Rights". everyone will think they have to rights. A 50 years old will think he got rights to seat compared to someone younger. parents with kids think they got the rights to seat. Old people also think they got rights to seat. so in the end, who got the rights? this show singapore is far from gracious. if people want to give up their seat for you, say thank you. don't keep thinking you deserved the seat. why not charter the entire train for your own travel pleasure?

[qedcwc]

I have to admit that I'm among those who occupy the reserved seat corner especially if I feel like wanting to rest my eyes during the train ride.

Ofcos maybe u would wanna lambast me why dun i juz take any other seat.

Well, here's the thing: my head tends to go sideways if I fall asleep to the extent it might fall onto the shoulder of the passenger sitting beside you, and that's even more embarrassing!

But at times, I really do fall asleep. Otherwise, if I sense a less mobile or pregnant passenger nearby, I would definitely let them have my seat.

And oh, I do hold doors open for people..... so am I now an old-fashioned 20s lad?

[Guest imseeker]

I have to admit that I'm among those who occupy the reserved seat corner especially if I feel like wanting to rest my eyes during the train ride. Ofcos maybe u would wanna lambast me why dun i juz take any other seat. Well, here's the thing: my head tends to go sideways if I fall asleep to the extent it might fall onto the shoulder of the passenger sitting beside you, and that's even more embarrassing!

I know how you feel. Sometimes when I'm really exhausted and tired, I will try finding those 2-seater seats and sit on the 2nd seat without the priority sign.

[qedcwc]

I know how you feel. Sometimes when I'm really exhausted and tired, I will try finding those 2-seater seats and sit on the 2nd seat without the priority sign.

The thing is they are usually among the first ones to be taken.....

Edited November 6, 2011 by qedcwc

[Guest just visiting]

although I do agree we should let those who need the seat more than us to have it (therefore termed elderly.......) I don't agree on a pecking order as mentioned by some. Folks, regardless of age, gender and etc may be experiencing back pains, leg cramps or have just came out of operation (experienced it myself). Because these symptoms are not actualized, general others don't see it, thus rendering them healthy n ought to give up their seat..... weird? I think so.

[Wolfe]

This is why i'm thankful i can take a bus to and from work - there are almost always seats, haha.

personally, i do sit on reserved seats, and i will give up my seat to people who need it more. however i disagree with the entitlement mindset, of which some people seem to have. it all boils down to graciousness, and if someone doesn't have the grace to offer a seat should someone need it, one could always ask. Most people will give up their seats when asked.

Sometimes I don't feel like giving up my seat to be honest - I once gave up my seat, only to be told off. Some crazy old woman shouted "YOU THINK I NEED YOUR PITY? I DON'T NEED YOU TO DO ANYTHING", and took the seat anyway

[Guest Guest]

Hi there,

Your Comment:

(1) ....I don't mean to be disrespectful, rude or anything But have you noticed that some senior citizens are too over-reliant on those priority seats?

My take:

How can we claim that they are "OVER-reliant"? If they are old, they definitely need to "rely" on seats, walking aids etc to help them, isn't it? It is like if your eye-sight is no longer that good and you need reading glasses, can you say you are OVER-reliant on them?

If we say they should not be "over-reliant", then ALL THE MORE those younger people (already) seating on the priority seats are more reliant right? They were seating on the priority seats as you observed them.

Your Comment

(2) .....I know that people are suppose to give up their seats for them if they are seating on those seats. But some senior citizens purposely perform some actions to hint to people that they are suppose to give it up to them. ..........

My Take:

Like you said "people are supposed to give up their seats", but they didn't. So what can the Old UNCLE or AUNTY do, scold or ask direct they scare kena beaten up, so have to "hint" "hint" loh. Don't you "hint" "hint" too at different times of your life to friends, clients etc?

If we have the heart to give up our seats to these people who are supposedly weaker, then they don't have to hint in the first place.

Your Comment:

(3) Even though we are suppose to respect the elderly, I still feel that the elderly should not force people to give up their seats unless they really really really cannot stand or have alot of things to carry.

My Take:

Actually I feel otherwise. They and other commuters should have the courage to tell the younger guy to give up the priority seat to the elders. This is education! I once read this "We are society" - meaning we make up the society we want to be in. Each and everyone of us has a responsibility in moulding the society we want to live in. If everyone develops kindness and respect, then the old folks don't even have to "FORCE" the younger to give up seats right?

We can see it from another perspective. A senior citizen can post this: Why aren't youngsters giving seats to us?

I think our moral values are deteriorating and it is sad. Just a couple of days ago, I walked out of the control station at mrt station and heard this loud scream from a China woman. What happened was I think her "mother" (in late 60s maybe) didn't know which "gantry" to walk pass after taping her card. She tapped on the left sensor and went to the right "gantry", so obviously the "gantry" won't open. Her "daughter" holding a 6-7yr old girl already went passed the "gantry" shouted at her repeatedly (something to the extend - "get over here! I said get over here! This side you fool"). The mom saw people watching her because of her daughter's scream and she was very embarrassed. She lowered her head and walked to the other "gantry". The daughter knew everyone was watching but she continued hurling at her mom.

[suckling_pig]

I agree that people who sit in the priority seat should be people who are in need of it.

But the old lady appeared very healthy.

I'm just saying that people should not be over-reliant on these so-called privileges.

What if when you become an elderly, take the mrt and no one gives up their seat for you.

I guess it's all about the person's character.

Some people will do things to get what they want, while some will just forget about it and move on

Hi PhoenixOrder,

After reading your clarification, I think I understand your point a little clearer. I think what you wanted to point out was that there is a certain kiasu tendency in Singaporeans, and in certain older folks, it translates to kancheong and undignified grabbing of MRT reserved seating.

Am I correct in describing it this way?

[qedcwc]

.... I once gave up my seat, only to be told off. Some crazy old woman shouted "YOU THINK I NEED YOUR PITY? I DON'T NEED YOU TO DO ANYTHING", and took the seat anyway

I would regard that as an isolated case of a crazy hag...

[phoenixorder]

@suckling_pig

something like that. hahahaha

i'm just trying to say that you can't always expect people to give up their seat just because you belong to that age group.

Since the aging population is on the rise, there are gonna be more and more elderly taking public transport.

What if one day you take the mrt and all the priority seats are taken by the right group of people?

What will the elderly people that just board the mrt do?

Most them do have pride and will quietly stand until they reach their destination.

@-Guest-

the elderly i saw at that time was quite healthy and capable of standing for a few stops.

anyway, everyone is bound to meet someone that will not give up their seat. Be it the way they were brought up or the government's system.

Society will always be made up of different people, both good and bad. So I don't think we can expect everyone to be virtually good or kind.

Edited November 7, 2011 by phoenixorder