You Don't Wanna Speak Mandarin?

[Guest Guest]

75% in Singapore are of Chinese ethnicity/descent. But how come there are so many fake ang mors speaking English?

Mandarin is the official common chinese spoken language in almost all Chinese community. Even taiwan, hong kong, using their native dialect, they still use mandarin as the official common chinese spoken language.

U cant say, mandarin is difficult language, and therefore all chinese should scrap using a common chinese spoken language. Assuming u are right that mandarin is difficult pick up, well then other chinese spoken language would have to replace mandarin.

Whether massive import of PRC or not, there must be a common spoken chinese language to be use in school, in order to teach Chinese language to children. If dun like Mandarin to be use as common spoken chinese language, then perhaps hokkien or teochew be use a common spoken chinese language. Whether or not there's lots of prc in our backyard or not we have to learn a common spoken chinese language.

The discrimination of people who cant speak mandarin when comes to job, thats another issue. Ppl cannot say, because of that, Chinese sporeans should totally scrap using a common spoken chinese language.

I view mandarin as a necessity tool to learn to read and write chinese language. Without mandarin how are the children going to learn chinese language in school? Chinese must know how to speak Mandarin.

[Guest Guest]

Sadly I can't really understand the bulk of what u're trying to say..though I do agree that Chinese should be able to speak Chinese.

[superflawless]

I speak fluent Mandarin because I am Chinese. I do wish I can speak Teochew well, which is my Chinese dialect. The ironic thing is, my Cantonese is better because of decades watching TVB serials in their original undubbed form.

My Chinese in school was always A1, and I have a strong passion for ancient Chinese history, culture and stories.

The reason why some Chinese in Singapore cannot articulate well in Mandarin is because we are a multi-racial country.

English is our official language that helps bridge cultural differences. So because of this "crutch", there isn't a need to study or excel in one's mother tongue. If you want to improve your Chinese character writing and Mandarin, it's best to immerse yourself in a culture that's conducive to studying that language. From Taiwanese talk shows, I saw many foreigners speak fluent Mandarin and even dialect TaiYu (Hokkien). It's a culture that highly promotes the usage of Mandarin and Hokkien. The foreigners in Singapore do not have to learn another language. It has it's advantageous too. In Taiwan, many popular movie shows are even dubbed in Mandarin, but that means their level of expertise in English is not as high as in Singapore.

My point: No country is perfect. Learn to live with our shortcomings and appreciate what we are strong in.

[Guest Guest]

Haha didnt bother to read finish ur long post... but, I dont know which particular weird corner of the island u are living in.... chinese in singapore ARE speaking chinese wad..... the only problem is that younger chinese seem to have weaker ability to read and write chinese... other than that, the speaking ability is improving..

[fab]

Agree with post 2 and 4.

No head no tail.

Edited August 17, 2012 by fab

[abang]

I think I need to highlight the importance of using the appropriate language at work.

Use your common sense to avoid embarassment.

I have non-Chinese speaking colleagues from South Korea, India, Norway, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines and Mynamar.

I think it is extremely RUDE to use Mandarin (thereafter, giggle) infront of them.

The poor girl from Norway has the worst because she is sitting in a tiny cubicle surrounded by Mandarin-speaking aunties.

Show others our friendliness.

Dont make them feel unwanted.

Of course in the same vein, I had to use my lousy ChaoZhou-hua when I visited my maternal grandmother's friends when I was in China.

They dont (fully) understand Putonghua and English language is hardly used there.

So, use the appropriate language/dialect at the right time.

[Simmon]

Just because you are Chinese doesn't mean you must speak mandarin. You may know mandarin and excel in it. But you can choose to speak English or even Elvish if you want. As long as you are understood, you can send a message across clearly, it doesn't matter what language you choose to convey the message.

Of course there are times when you must use a particular language for a particular purpose even if you know they can understand you. For example, you don't go to an office for an interview and start speaking singling or dialect even if the person can understand or you don't go to a chinese lesson and start speaking English. But in a day to say scenario, whatever skins the cat.

[qez]

Note that the first post was typed in English.

[Guest stbrianud]

Okay.. Your post is too long for such a topic so I just skim through it.

And I'm too lazy to respond with a proper argument unless someone can provide a cogent argument as to why we should be speaking mandarin. I can community a little in Chinese. And it's not "fake Ang moh" English... Westernisation in Singapore is simply part of the ever growing rate of globalization... I myself do not draw my beliefs and values from the traditional Chinese nor Malay cultures and neither do I follow their customs and traditions. I draw mine from the western societies...

[gstc82]

I am 100% Chinese but my family do not speak mandarin. My mom was taught English n Malay in school, her mother was peranakan. My dad spoke hokkien n English as his parents were from china n spoke no mandarin. I learnt mandarin in pro sch n suck at it.

[abang]

A few BW forum users were actually surprised that I can communicate in Mandarin.

They thought I was such a potato queen - anything non-English is taboo.

During my time, I was taught to think and use the language as if I was a native.

That is to say, pronounce your words properly in all the languages - English, Mandarin and Malay.

I am quite fortunate that I was in the right study environment where almost everyone in my cohort scored

Distinctions in both languages during our GCE examinations. It was not something I should boast about

now but it reminds me, it is still possible to handle both languages effectively.

Nowadays, the drift between the good and the bad users of languages is getting wider.

To those who are more comfortable in Mandarin, use it but if there are non-chinese speaking people in the midst,

switch over to English immediately.

It is like listening to FM 88.3, FM93.3, FM 95.8, FM 97.2 and FM100.3 and in the presence of non-speaking colleagues,

switch over to FM88.9 (BBC- power) FM 93.8, FM95.0, FM 98.0, FM 98.7. The best radio station that puts most to sleep, FM 92.4 Symphony if classical music is NOT everyone's cup of tea. Oops in Mandarin, not everyone's plate of vegetables 不是我的菜。。

[Guest Guest]

Why? Basically, Mandarin is a foreign language.

Probably nobody born in Singapore handles it as well as those Mainland China educated. How many native speakers of it here? Besides that, what is "Mandarin" ? A FOREIGN NAME for a group of north China dialects, a foreign name which has been disowned by the Chinese themselves, yet still racially flouted in Southeast Asia. Most of the first post could be challenged by sociolinguists as emotional not logical or statistical.

[derryfawne]

To those who are more comfortable in Mandarin, use it but if there are non-chinese speaking people in the midst, switch over to English immediately.

Yeah.

And why is it a crime that people who don't speak Mandarin as their first language find it hard to speak Mandarin? (even if he's of Chinese descent)

[Guest Guest]

nowadays very popular to post comment in FB using chinese leh. its like back to Chinese when ppl last time like me, hated to write chinese

[Guest mandrain]

75% in Singapore are of Chinese ethnicity/descent. But how come there are so many fake ang mors speaking English?

Mandarin is the official common chinese spoken language in almost all Chinese community. Even taiwan, hong kong, using their native dialect, they still use mandarin as the official common chinese spoken language.

U cant say, mandarin is difficult language, and therefore all chinese should scrap using a common chinese spoken language. Assuming u are right that mandarin is difficult pick up, well then other chinese spoken language would have to replace mandarin.

Whether massive import of PRC or not, there must be a common spoken chinese language to be use in school, in order to teach Chinese language to children. If dun like Mandarin to be use as common spoken chinese language, then perhaps hokkien or teochew be use a common spoken chinese language. Whether or not there's lots of prc in our backyard or not we have to learn a common spoken chinese language.

The discrimination of people who cant speak mandarin when comes to job, thats another issue. Ppl cannot say, because of that, Chinese sporeans should totally scrap using a common spoken chinese language.

I view mandarin as a necessity tool to learn to read and write chinese language. Without mandarin how are the children going to learn chinese language in school? Chinese must know how to speak Mandarin.

Well......you are lucky to born in Singapore.....if you are born in Malaysia....you have to study in malay and speak must learn to speak malay well....

[Cereal]

My mum is a Malaysian Chinese who can't speak/understand English at all.

One day she came to Singapore with my auntie (can only speak mandarin) and they were lost. They approached a Singaporean lady (appeared to be) and asked for direction. All they got was sorry 我不会讲华语. Then the lady just walked off.

I'm a Malaysian Chn. During my school days I didnt find Chn language difficult to learn, probably it's bcoz I was an avid reader. I read lots of Chn language books.

Lots of sg Chinese find it hard to learn, including my bf. but I've found that actually many sg Chn can speak/converse mandarin well. They just impose some barriers on themselves from doing it. Reasons? Unknown...

[EasleyLim]

讲真的，谁说要废除华语的?

也不是说我们年轻人不喜欢学华语或用华语来沟通啦 只是我们所接触的语言实在是太多了, 有马来，英文，印度文 等等。再加上官方语言是英文，英文能力比较强也不奇怪啊！

But anyway, I didn't get get the whole point of your post. How else are you gonna learn mandarin without using umm, mandarin? Use French meh?

[charvo87]

seriously i dont understand what is he writing, or maybe what he is talking about. What is common chinese language? If u really wann say that chinese must speak their own mother tongue, then i shall say that u and i need not speak mandarin. Why? Coz im a teochew and my mother tongue cfm is teochew, and i need not speak mandarin because mandarin is the language for the beijing people. Why is it common now? Because the parliament back then when sun yat sen still the president of china, they like singapore wanna find a common language. Singapore say okay, as we are british colony and the world is speaking english as communication tools, and to avoid conflicts we use english. Then they after all the meetings all arguements, they voted for mandarin, because beijing as the capital of the country, we will make beijing language as a common language for the whole country. That is why, the taiwan called it, 国语, and the communist called it 普通话。

So if what u mean is that as a particular race we need to know the language of our race then i would say i only need to know teochew and not mandarin.

[kee_hsiao]

Sadly I can't really understand the bulk of what u're trying to say..though I do agree that Chinese should be able to speak Chinese.

I second that... 举双手赞成！！！

And why is it a crime that people who don't speak Mandarin as their first language find it hard to speak Mandarin? (even if he's of Chinese descent)

not a crime but I think same applies to other races as well. Malay cannot speak malay? Indian cannot speak tamil (ok I know they've got MANY dialects and variations)? French cannot speak french? Englishmen cannot speak english?

not talking about mastering mandarin for Chinese as Singapore's environment are not quite the same as Taiwan and China. but should at least converse comfortably? it's ok that you can't write all the characters but minimally able to read the not too tough ones?

[XiaoMessy]

Because English is the core language. xD

Plus, I'm sure if you're with friends of other races, they won't understand Chinese. (Just like you don't understand their language)

[Guest guest]

Chinese people tend to think the language they use representing their social status. Hence, in older time those who use English a lot have a better life in terms of job finding and social life ,and of course they find using Mandarin simply redundant, u would not surprise they would ignore with snobbish look should they cross path with mandarin speaker. Hence,.the government have to impose compulsory learning mandarin measurement to alleviate the situation. With so many years pass., u still find students purposely flop in mandarin subject so to avoid any linkage with mediocrity socially, so how they possibly find mandarin easy to learn? and that's reason behind " I can't speak mandarin" attitude. with the influx of prc people, and their wide spoken of mandarin without much hesitation ,and look how far now china have become , I don't. know how far those potato queen will carry themselves . But I believe where ever they r, even in high end resraurant, they can't. possibly avoid with mandarin language , thanks to influx of prc people. should one day they find knowledge of mandarin have cause a toll of their career prospect , their mindset will change.

[schmuckisms]

Perhaps the greatest irony of all was that the OP was written in English.

With the way it's spoken utterlyfxxkingbutchered in Singapore, it's not a big loss anyway.

[Slynn]

I don't like how people were saying "You all should learn solely English!! IT'S LIKE THE LANGUAGE OF THE FUTURE" a decade ago and then now they go "OMG WHY YOU ALL DON'T KNOW MANDARIN!! CHINA IS LIKE BLALBLABLALBA NOW SO IT'S SO IMPORTANT"

Learning languages is supposed to be more fun, but some tend to make it seems like it has to be practical in order to be worthy to learn. People should just stop trying to figure out which language will be beneficial in the future and be more interested in the culture/language itself.

Mandarin is harder to learn, so I don't blame those who don't speak them well. It is a difficult language to pick up midway, even if you learned it midway, you may still speak with an accent. And there they are people who laugh at those who can't speak them properly, so naturally they will not want to use it often. (My friends are always shy when they're required to speak in Mandarin)

Let's look at it this way, learning more languages open up more opportunities and insight. This works almost anywhere in the world. It's not really about being a Chinese who can't speak mandarin, or picking a language which you think will be useful in the future. Instead it just boils down to whether you are willing to master more languages to use them as 'keys' to unlock more insight and opportunities. This is especially vital to cope with globalisation in Singapore imo. If they think they can do without knowing much of Mandarin, or if they learned another language as a substitution instead, it'll be good enough. Whatever floats their boat~

[derryfawne]

not a crime but I think same applies to other races as well. Malay cannot speak malay? Indian cannot speak tamil (ok I know they've got MANY dialects and variations)? French cannot speak french? Englishmen cannot speak english?

not talking about mastering mandarin for Chinese as Singapore's environment are not quite the same as Taiwan and China. but should at least converse comfortably? it's ok that you can't write all the characters but minimally able to read the not too tough ones?

But why is that so important, really?

Let's see. Nowadays, the younger generation of Singaporean Chinese mostly can only speak Putonghua (or at best, can listen a little of their own dialects). But c'mon, I mean... Hokkien people can't speak Hokkien? Hakka people cannot speak Hakka? Why do everyone prefer to speak in this fake 'Mandarin' that is not a true reflection of their origin?

The thing is that culture assimilates, and this assimilation is even more pronounced in today's increasingly globalized society and particularly in a multi-cultural society like Singapore. It doesn't mean we're being disrespectful to our own community, it only means that we're also a part of a bigger community in which a particular language is needed to effectively communicate messages and get things done effectively in our daily life; and English (or at least, Singlish) simply happens to be a language that can successfully bridge all the cultural differences between Chinese, Malay, and Indian.

[SEPTIE1234]

Don't get your main point in that whole chunk of words but...

English's still the language that's widely used all around the world, so it's better to be fluent in it! Work, school, travel, etc etc you need English! Chinese , on the other hand is our mother toungue ! It's good to be fluent in it too but you can't deny the fact that English's still a languange that's more commonly used and it's the key to communicating with people from other countries or of a different race.

Knowing your ancestral language is also important so as to pass on traditions, culture etc, but don't forget, we're living in a multi-racial society here in Singapore. The language that allows all races to communicate with each other is still English!

So both are somewhat equally important! That's why the government is promoting bi-lingualism here !

[Kage]

I dropped my mother tongue in secondary 2 and studied in CLB (Chinese Language Basics) and I never really bothered to practice writing nor reading after since. Well, I can speak fluent mandarin in various accents but it never occurred to me that I have to be able to write or read it.

Idk, I view language as a platform to communicate effectively with another. Important or not, honestly, I don't care. I'm a Chinese and I'm proud to say that I can't write nor read for nuts HAHA. So what if I'm a Chinese? Why must I learn this just because I'm a Chinese?? I can't comprehend why people are so stuck up with the idea of "If you're a Chinese, you should be able to speak, read and write in it."

There was once, I went to China, and this China Chinese lady was mocking at me for not being able to read, even though I'm a Chinese. In my head I was like, wtf? But yea, feeling offended, I deliberately altered my accent to her China Chinese accent, and told her that I could converse in a variety of accents and languages.

You can't even begin to imagine the face she gave me. Satisfaction.

Edited August 17, 2012 by kaze

[Guest Wisdom]

Imo, If your race is Chinese, you should be able to listen, read, write and speak Chinese/mandarin just like a Malay who should be able to do so likewise and so on.

Just like being a soldier and you tell people you cannot handle a weapon, people will laugh their heads off...

No one will laugh at you (Chinese) if you cannot speak English because it is NOT your native language. By all means, the authority has forced us to learn English, Chinese should never be evocated out of the Chinese, it's a sense of belonging that you cannot lose no matter what.

[SEPTIE1234]

No one evocated chinese out of chinese..? I meant, you're being too one-sided. We're living in a multi-racial society, English is of crucial importance to our worklife, school etc. People will tend to speak, write and read more English..? And because you're a Chinese, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be able to speak write and read chinese fluently, it depends on your environment too. If everyone around seldom uses Mandarin, how can you master the language?

The whole point here is our society is constantly changing, we have to interact with people of other races to keep up. And English is the key to this. Yes, Chinese is important in terms of passing down tradition, culture of our ancestors but you can't deny the fact that we actually seldom use it nowadays. And about the laughing part, it's personal pride i guess? I meant, it's not like you're disowning your roots or something why would people judge you?

[Guest guest]

U would not surprise chinise potato queen would question the importance of mandarin language , but u would never find English people question the importance of English language, the Janpanese question of their mother tongue etc, why so? the potato queen carry this attitute from their parent who lived in colonial era where English language as a tool to mingle into high society, they r proud of it . or if not from their parent, must be 半路出家. In short , they feel life is a breeze without knowledge of mandarin.

[JohnConqueror]

Sadly I can't really understand the bulk of what u're trying to say..though I do agree that Chinese should be able to speak Chinese.

LOL i agree. The irony is pretty amusing. TS is frustrated that some chinese locals cannot speak proper mandarin (which I agree as well, but proud to say im relatively bilingual). But English (as well as Chinese, Malay and Tamil) are the official languages in Singapore, yet TS doesn't seem to be able to communicate in fluent English as well. Should we start a corresponding thread expressing why's there still a vast majority of locals who are unable to use/speak proper english? LOL.

[pumpkinhead88]

IMO people choose their languages based on how important it is - in the country, on a global scale, how many other people speak it. People in Malaysia speak Malay for obvious reasons, and this applies to France, Germany, Mexico, etc.

However in Singapore, English is chosen by the government to be the main language of communication. It works for the racial harmony that we're so proud of, since it allows us to speak with each other without any barriers. It doesn't favour one race over another - how would the Malays and Indians feel if they were forced to learn Chinese? Bias much?

English has allowed us to communicate on a global scale. Much of the information in books and on the Internet are in English. What would we do without English?

I don't really understand what you're trying to say anyway, your English is horrible.

And finally, we're Singaporeans, not Chinese. Let us forge our own identity rather than pretending we're like the Chinese in China. Let's face it, how many of us know the story behind Chinese New Year, or our history? If you want to speak Chinese, Chinese, and nothing but Chinese, go to China.

Edited August 18, 2012 by pumpkinhead88

[charvo87]

again, mandarin isnt our root, our origin language, because mandarin is the language for the beijing people ONLY. We are hokkien and teochew and hakka and cantonese and hainanese..... If we were really talking about chineses origins, then it is to learn our teochew , hokkien, canto, hainan dialects....

[charvo87]

so if u wanna speak manadarin which back in the old days ONLY used by beijing native, then u are atraitor of ur own dialect origin, just the same as u criticize chinese speaking english.

[iamziz]

Side track a bit:

When I lost my job, being desperate I decided to bring my pride down. I applied for a job as a warehouse assistant. I was told 'Sorry ah. We need Chinese speaking to speak to our Chinese colleagues.' I told myself 'This is fxxking Singapore. People speak English even if their English suck!' I say no more.

Edited August 18, 2012 by iamziz

[derryfawne]

again, mandarin isnt our root, our origin language, because mandarin is the language for the beijing people ONLY. We are hokkien and teochew and hakka and cantonese and hainanese..... If we were really talking about chineses origins, then it is to learn our teochew , hokkien, canto, hainan dialects....

And finally, we're Singaporeans, not Chinese. Let us forge our own identity rather than pretending we're like the Chinese in China.

:clap:

I don't get all the cultural conservatism.

Culture evolves across time and space. Society of today is definitely living in a very different world from the society of yesterday. Chinese residing in Singapore (and most other South East Asian countries) are living in a different world than those living in a mostly Chinese community. We are guided by different set of rules and social norms.

Imposing language expectation just because someone is of certain race is akin to imposing sexual behavior expectation just because someone is of certain gender.

[Guest Guest]

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is as good as a man without a functioning penis.

The most traitorous thing is to see you upper-middle class Singaporean Chinese blindly advocating everything Western, looking down on your own cultural roots, not even ashamed of not knowing the history of Chinese New Year or your inability to speak good Mandarin.

With traitors like you trying to KO the Chinese language and culture, what future is there for Chinese cultural pride?

All you English chauvinists are plainly ashamed of your race, your culture.

Do you see the Malays and Indians in Singapore behave so ashamed of their cultural roots and their language? No!

[gstc82]

Lol the abv person. There are millions of Chinese in the world who can't speak mandarin. Millions in china cant mandarin. Many hkers can't speak mandarin. U shd brush up your history before u paiseh.

[pumpkinhead88]

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is as good as a man without a functioning penis.

Why so many people keep bringing up this analogy?

This is might be offensive, but a Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is like a man who's gay. Be what you want, be who you want to be. If I have a penis and decide to poke it into another man, then so be it. If I'm a Chinese but decide not to learn the language, then so be it. On one hand we're going against social norms by being gay, and on another hand we're upset that Chinese in Singapore aren't being "real" Chinese. What's with the discrimination?

The most traitorous thing is to see you upper-middle class Singaporean Chinese blindly advocating everything Western, looking down on your own cultural roots, not even ashamed of not knowing the history of Chinese New Year or your inability to speak good Mandarin.

What's wrong with advocating everything Western if it's what I prefer? Are you going to force yourself to be straight because that's the norm? Are we all traitors to the male gender now?

I really have to agree with derryfawne two posts above.

Do you see the Malays and Indians in Singapore behave so ashamed of their cultural roots and their language? No!

Actually, yes.

Edited August 18, 2012 by pumpkinhead88

[Guest Guest]

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is as good as a man without a functioning penis.

The most traitorous thing is to see you upper-middle class Singaporean Chinese blindly advocating everything Western, looking down on your own cultural roots, not even ashamed of not knowing the history of Chinese New Year or your inability to speak good Mandarin.

With traitors like you trying to KO the Chinese language and culture, what future is there for Chinese cultural pride?

All you English chauvinists are plainly ashamed of your race, your culture.

Do you see the Malays and Indians in Singapore behave so ashamed of their cultural roots and their language? No!

Yes, you all better learn Chinese!

[Guest guest]

When mandarin has its monetary value, the potato queen will not hesitate to steer clear of what they have believed in. Trust me, I know them inside out.

[qedcwc]

Well......you are lucky to born in Singapore.....if you are born in Malaysia....you have to study in malay and speak must learn to speak malay well....

Primarily, that's because Malay is the national language and the sole official language in Malaysia.

English and Chinese have not been exactly gazetted as official languages in Malaysia but lately these two languages have been used a lot alongside it in the media. It's a pity that Tamil seems to be fading away from the scene due to lack of promotion of the language.

Personally, I feel that language is a tool to understand and observe a particular culture thoroughly. For instance, one cannot understand the Chinese culture deep enough using only English language, because language and the culture associated with it are the only ones able to complement each other 100%. In Southeast Asia, I dare say there is quite a big number of cultural conservationists, thus the emphasization of learning of a particular language, which is not exactly a bad thing. There's even a Malay saying, tak kenal maka tak cinta (you won't endear yourself to something without understanding it thoroughly).

There are some who feel that Chinese should especially learn Mandarin and Chinese culture due to the long period of Chinese civilization, thus unconsciously creating some sort of civilizational pride. Some have probably gone rather overboard to the extent of degrading other civilizations that emerged later than China, along with the languages that accompanied them. What they forgot that at the end of the day, they are just as human as anyone else.

What I can say is this, at the end of the day, in this fast-moving world, language is a tool to border gaps between communities who speak different languages. Just because English is widely used everywhere doesn't mean other languages can be considered obsolete, especially when a particular language is assigned a certain status like Malay/Indonesian being the national language in Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore and Indonesia. But if you wanna learn a language, do it properly with dedication or you may just fall back being a struggling beginner.

[gstc82]

To that person who called Chinese who can't speak mandarin traitors, what abt peranakan Chinese? Many can't speak mandarin but Malay and they observe Chinese customs and traditions much more than I do. Are these people traitors?

[Guest Blaidd_drwg]

The objective of language is to unify individuals into a collective. As long as this purpose serves us, we can continue calling it a language. Otherwise, it is defunct and extinct.

For example, why do we have small talk? To understand each other's emotional state so that when we collaborate, we know what ticks us off and on. If we need not co-operate to build society, there would be no point in even speaking to each other (the engineer to the architect to the material's trader to the businessman).

If we keep this fundamental idea in mind, there is no point that this debate should be even going on and on and on...

PS: For those who vehemently support either extreme view of pro-Anglo or pro-Sino, seriously, you guys have ego problems, and a very narrow view about how society functions fundamentally. All you care about is "us versus them" and your own self-interest.

PS2: GM can this pointless topic be locked up? It will never end with each side never finding the "truth".

[Guest Guest]

Typical sore loser, cannot take the heat, resort to the usual modus operandi - call for the thread to be locked.

[Guest guest]

Why chinese potato queen stand out from others? Bcos they proudly announce their zero knowledge of chinese, without feeling guilty and without shame, and this uniquely potato queen attitude only be found in chinese, that's amazing!

[Guest Guest]

You can also call these jia kantangs bananas = yellow outside, white inside.

[derryfawne]

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is as good as a man without a functioning penis.

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is more like a non-feminine girl, or a non-masculine guy. Or to keep in par with your sexual analogy, a Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is like a man who rejects sexual conservatism that a man MUST behave like a 'real man' and should never have anything up his asshole.

This 'all Chinese must be able to speak Mandarin' is nonsense. It demonstrates no understanding of the diversity/richness in Chinese culture, nor does it understand how far we Chinese people has come to assimilate and give rise to 'new/modern culture' that is rich in itself.

As a Hokkien lang who can (and prefer to) speak fluent Hokkien, I don't identify with Mandarin as representing my language heritage. It's merely one of the neighbouring Chinese dialects that was under our radar and only became important sometime in late 20th century as the result of PRC's government actively promoting a common national language to help bridge communication between various Chinese tribes. No one in the community I grew up in uses Mandarin in our daily conversation until recent years, until PRC became a potential economic power and learning Mandarin becomes important. At the turn of the century, the newly-borns are instead taught to speak Mandarin as their first language, and Hokkien is already no longer taught.

But I don't think of them as traitors to the Hokkien heritage, and I definitely don't go around feeling angry or mad, calling them out as a disgrace to our cultural heritage, just because my Hokkien friends/relatives cannot speak Hokkien. It's stupid, insensitive, and unnecessary language bigotry. I only saw that move towards Mandarin as necessary, because language serves to communicate. It has the power to unite people, and the more people a language can bridge, the more valuable a language is. And Mandarin has undeniably become better than Hokkien at facilitating that function.

I even started to pick up Mandarin courses myself. Quite late, of course, partly because learning Mandarin in Indonesia at the time could get us into legal troubles. But when the banning was lifted up, I was already at that age when I found it hard to pick up new languages. I can speak only very basic Mandarin, but if someone's going to ridicule me on that, I'd slap that self-centred person who doesn't realize that his Mandarin-speaking community is not the only Chinese community in this Earth. I'm not a non-Chinese just because I can't speak Mandarin that was not even my heritage language, mind you. Many Indonesian Chinese are even speaking Bahasa Indonesia and not Mandarin. Some contributors in this thread has also brought out Peranakan Chinese as a valid example.

Granted, the presence of Mandarin was bigger in Singapore than it was in my home country. Yet, what is currently happening in Singapore is merely a history revisioning itself. Much like how Mandarin was promoted over other dialects to help facilitate communication between various Chinese communities, Singapore government realizes that another language should be promoted to bridge the various races in this multi-cultural society, and English just happened to be that language. The emergence of Singlish, regardless of how much you are willing to embrace it, is the true product of this unique phenomenon. It is able to bring Singaporeans of various races together.

Yet despite of Singapore government's active attempt to promote English, not everyone is able to catch up (esp. those who have become too convenient with their native language before the government starts to promote English). Still, that doesn't grant anyone the right to pigeonhole every Singaporeans into one box and ridicule those who don't fit the bill, those who are unable to speak English despite it being a commonly used language among Singaporeans nowadays.

Likewise, Mandarin may be the most commonly used among Chinese nowadays, but hey, it doesn't mean all Chinese speaks Mandarin. Mandarin is all good with me, I just find the extremist stance of 'all Chinese must be able to speak Mandarin' completely ignorant and inadequate, and the attempt to ridicule those who don't (as this thread has started to turn into) an unnecessary hate speech.

If I were born a straight guy and is to ever raise up children, I would rather my blood descendants use languages as the power to embrace diversity and connect/communicate with people of various background, not as the tool to discriminate or exclude people from their community.

Edited August 18, 2012 by derryfawne

[charvo87]

seriously, if chinese speaking english and only english is traitor. Then as a teochew who speaks beijing language is also a traitor. Hokkien who dont speaks hokkien but beijing language is also traitor. So how do you define traitor and origin. Back before china became what is china today. We from the northern part of china is another country. Then slowly thru war and conquer and colonise, then it became what is china today. And when the sun yat sen as president they say one country and so many dialects and languages is no good, must come out with one common language and they voted for beijing language as something to be learn nationwide, and that how mandarin id popular today. So if u are hokkien origin u wanna say learn mandarin, u are a disgrace of hokkien people as u disacknoledge ur hokkien ancetral dialect. So tell me what should chinese of different places speak so as to not disgrace our own blood origin? Somemore if u are learning the simplified chinese charcter u are also a disgrace to chinese culture. Why? Coz simplified words are an alteration made by the communist for their new era. While the trditional chinese chracters are slowly evolved thru times and chnages slowly. If u wanna stick to tradition do u really know trditional chinese characters? And also if u wanna speak about being a chinese den dun go shaking hands with people this is not chinese culture, chinese is clasps two fists tgt and make a bow. If u wanna say chinese traditions i bet u wun know that much and practice it, all u wanna say is just only speak and read chinese. Trust me, i am someone who grew up with old people in temple, met different dialects of old people, u wanna say tradition, go learn from ur grandparents, if u hokkien go learn hokkien, if u teochew go learn teochew, that is the origin, mandarin language is belong to beijing people.

So, stop arguing about origin and stuffs, go read about some history first then talk.

[charvo87]

A Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is more like a non-feminine girl, or a non-masculine guy. Or to keep in par with your sexual analogy, a Chinese who cannot speak Mandarin is like a man who rejects sexual conservatism that a man MUST behave like a 'real man' and should never have anything up his asshole.

This 'all Chinese must be able to speak Mandarin' is nonsense. It demonstrates no understanding of the diversity/richness in Chinese culture, nor does it understand how far we Chinese people has come to assimilate and give rise to 'new/modern culture' that is rich in itself.

As a Hokkien lang who can (and prefer to) speak fluent Hokkien, I don't identify with Mandarin as representing my language heritage. It's merely one of the neighbouring Chinese dialects that was under our radar and only became important sometime in late 20th century as the result of PRC's government actively promoting a common national language to help bridge communication between various Chinese tribes. No one in the community I grew up in uses Mandarin in our daily conversation until recent years, until PRC became a potential economic power and learning Mandarin becomes important. At the turn of the century, the newly-borns are instead taught to speak Mandarin as their first language, and Hokkien is already no longer taught.

But I don't think of them as traitors to the Hokkien heritage, and I definitely don't go around feeling angry or mad, calling them out as a disgrace to our cultural heritage, just because my Hokkien friends/relatives cannot speak Hokkien. It's stupid, insensitive, and unnecessary language bigotry. I only saw that move towards Mandarin as necessary, because language serves to communicate. It has the power to unite people, and the more people a language can bridge, the more valuable a language is. And Mandarin has undeniably become better than Hokkien at facilitating that function.

I even started to pick up Mandarin courses myself. Quite late, of course, partly because learning Mandarin in Indonesia at the time could get us into legal troubles. But when the banning was lifted up, I was already at that age when I found it hard to pick up new languages. I can speak only very basic Mandarin, but if someone's going to ridicule me on that, I'd slap that self-centred person who doesn't realize that his Mandarin-speaking community is not the only Chinese community in this Earth. I'm not a non-Chinese just because I can't speak Mandarin that was not even my heritage language, mind you. Many Indonesian Chinese are even speaking Bahasa Indonesia and not Mandarin. Some contributors in this thread has also brought out Peranakan Chinese as a valid example.

Granted, the presence of Mandarin was bigger in Singapore than it was in my home country. Yet, what is currently happening in Singapore is merely a history revisioning itself. Much like how Mandarin was promoted over other dialects to help facilitate communication between various Chinese communities, Singapore government realizes that another language should be promoted to bridge the various races in this multi-cultural society, and English just happened to be that language. The emergence of Singlish, regardless of how much you are willing to embrace it, is the true product of this unique phenomenon. It is able to bring Singaporeans of various races together.

Yet despite of Singapore government's active attempt to promote English, not everyone is able to catch up (esp. those who have become too convenient with their native language before the government starts to promote English). Still, that doesn't grant anyone the right to pigeonhole every Singaporeans into one box and ridicule those who don't fit the bill, those who are unable to speak English despite it being a commonly used language among Singaporeans nowadays.

Likewise, Mandarin may be the most commonly used among Chinese nowadays, but hey, it doesn't mean all Chinese speaks Mandarin. Mandarin is all good with me, I just find the extremist stance of 'all Chinese must be able to speak Mandarin' completely ignorant and inadequate, and the attempt to ridicule those who don't (as this thread has started to turn into) an unnecessary hate speech.

If I were born a straight guy and is to ever raise up children, I would rather my blood descendants use languages as the power to embrace diversity and connect/communicate with people of various background, not as the tool to discriminate or exclude people from their community.

No, no. The madarin is not something that the communist come up with to bridge people of different chinese tgt. It is the 国民党政府 Idea, when they still in power before they retreated to taiwan. Only the simplified chinese characters 简体字 Is some funny atrocious thing come up after the communist graps power from the 国民党, to welcome the new era of a new china. That is why only china uses simplified and not hong kong, macau, taiwan and old immigrants from the old china to the other parts of the earth, like singapore indonesai,malaysia....

Edited August 18, 2012 by charvo87

[charvo87]

To those who called people jia kantang, go read about chinese history then u come here tell people jia kantang. Like i said in old china people speak their own dialects. Only when the china starting to have a democratic parliament then they voted thru the parliament to let beijing language become a common chinese language throughout the whole nation. So which means if u really have that origin ego kind of stuff, go brush up ur own dialect before learning mandarin otherwise u are a traitor to ur own dialect anceators.

Go read history then come and tell people of by saying jia kantang.

And also before china became unified as a big chian today, most singaporeans ancestors came from southern part of china, and that part are not china before it unifies, so u are acty belongs to another country and also anoter origin.