Sp Lawrence Khong And His Anti Lgbt News (Compiled)

[rotikawin]

Its ok for religious zealots to launch verbal crusade on us LGBT's.

But its NOT OK if a supposedly secular govt is held hostage by them.

[Guest Guest]

Most of this religious zealots are two face and cowards. I do not see them coming out strongly against abortion, pre marital sex and extra marital affairs. Why don't they advocate the govt to work into the penal code to criminalize thess acts. This is one of the reasons among many why I am anti Abrahamic faith. But dun get me wrong, I love the worshippers ( they are after all quite pitiful for being so gullible and closed minded) , just hate their practice.

[EasleyLim]

How is it not good for the nation? What are you protecting the nation from? 

[Guest peace]

Ok guys, cool down first.

Lets face reality.

What he is against is not PLU, but the "normalising" of the LGBT lifestyles.

He has a point, esp. in Singapore's context, where declining birthrate is a big concern, and family unit consisting of a man, woman and children forms the basic structure of the society. We are living on an island with no natural resources except its people, imagine what would become of our island if more and more people adopt the LGBT lifestyles after they are being seen as normal.

I personally feel that as long as we live in peace, and respect one another, whether LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal or not is secondary

[EasleyLim]

Ok guys, cool down first.

Lets face reality.

What he is against is not PLU, but the "normalising" of the LGBT lifestyles.

He has a point, esp. in Singapore's context, where declining birthrate is a big concern, and family unit consisting of a man, woman and children forms the basic structure of the society. We are living on an island with no natural resources except its people, imagine what would become of our island if more and more people adopt the LGBT lifestyles after they are being seen as normal.

I personally feel that as long as we live in peace, and respect one another, whether LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal or not is secondary

 

Of all things that causes declining birthrates, I honestly wonder just how much LGBTs contributes to that compared to abortions, infidelities and divorces.

 

Perhaps he should start petitioning for bans of those instead of LGBTs? I bet AWARE would love to hear their opinion on abortion and divorce

[rotikawin]

He has a point, esp. in Singapore's context, where declining birthrate is a big concern, and family unit consisting of a man, woman and children forms the basic structure of the society.

Imagine what would become of our island if more and more people adopt the LGBT lifestyles after they are being seen as normal.

He does not have a point. The declining birthrate is not of our making. Its because hetero couples are marrying late, are not having or not having enough children.

The so-called "LGBT lifestyle" is not something we can adopt, we are born into it. And I seriously doubt "more and more" people will "adopt" it just because its normal. You are making it sound like its a contagious disease.

[Guest Guest]

Faith Community Baptist Church celebrated its 27th anniversary over the weekend of August 17-18. During his sermon, Lawrence Khong said, "?...... but don't make this a normal lifestyle for Singapore

Normal lifestyle?? Don't tell me he seriously thinks that everyone in Singapore will turn gay if it becomes a 'normal' lifestyle..what kind of logic is that

[lausanne]

what exactly is a LGBT lifestyle anyway? 

 

Is it going to gay saunas? Im sure the vast majority of gays do not go to saunas. Straights go there as well. 

 

Is it shopping at gay shops? Likewise too, Im sure not all gays patronise these shops exclusively.

 

Is it spreading the word to say that being gay is inborn and hence needs everyone else to accept this? This is not a lifestyle, this is an opinion of acceptance. 

 

Is it watching gay porn? I am sure many straights watch porn, gay or otherwise. 

 

Is it being promiscuous? Plenty of straights are also promiscuous. 

 

So what exactly is a LGBT lifestyle? Can anyone define it?

 

Vice versa, what is a "normal" lifestyle? I bet that pastor has no idea what he is talking about. 

[Guest Guest]

Ok guys, cool down first.

Lets face reality.

What he is against is not PLU, but the "normalising" of the LGBT lifestyles.

He has a point, esp. in Singapore's context, where declining birthrate is a big concern, and family unit consisting of a man, woman and children forms the basic structure of the society. We are living on an island with no natural resources except its people, imagine what would become of our island if more and more people adopt the LGBT lifestyles after they are being seen as normal.

I personally feel that as long as we live in peace, and respect one another, whether LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal or not is secondary

Homosexual are born not a lifestyle.Do not blame everything on gay.Gay are less than 5% of society.We can cause such massive birthrate problem!

[Guest peace]

He does not have a point. The declining birthrate is not of our making. Its because hetero couples are marrying late, are not having or not having enough children.

The so-called "LGBT lifestyle" is not something we can adopt, we are born into it. And I seriously doubt "more and more" people will "adopt" it just because its normal. You are making it sound like its a contagious disease.

We should not just be looking at this issue from our LGBT point of view. The fact that until now, most places still do not allow or recognise same sex marriage clearly tells us that "normalising" LGBT lifestyles will have serious impact, esp to a tiny country like Singapore.

And I believe that there are people out there who are sitting on the fence about their sexualities, esp the younger ones. If LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal, these people will have a HIGHER probability to tip towards the LGBT side, isnt it?

[Guest peace]

Homosexual are born not a lifestyle.Do not blame everything on gay.Gay are less than 5% of society.We can cause such massive birthrate problem!

Yes, 5% to a tiny country like Singapore may have massive impact

[Guest Guest]

We should not just be looking at this issue from our LGBT point of view. The fact that until now, most places still do not allow or recognise same sex marriage clearly tells us that "normalising" LGBT lifestyles will have serious impact, esp to a tiny country like Singapore.

And I believe that there are people out there who are sitting on the fence about their sexualities, esp the younger ones. If LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal, these people will have a HIGHER probability to tip towards the LGBT side, isnt it?

This is based on the perception that being gay is inferior compared to being straight. And the misconception is perpetuated the inequality and ignorance of the majority about sexuality.

If there is nothing wrong about being gay or straight, everyone then will have the freedom to choose how they want to express themselves

[Guest Guest]

Yes, 5% to a tiny country like Singapore may have massive impact

5% is relative to the total if u understand the concept of percentage.

5% of the population in sg will contribute only 5% impact..similarly 5% of china population will also contribute 5% impact in china

[glowingember]

Regarding the 'battle against normalizing LBGT lifestyle'.

It's fear and ignorance and some people, like certain pastors, use it to their advantage.

 

 

 

We should not just be looking at this issue from our LGBT point of view. The fact that until now, most places still do not allow or recognise same sex marriage clearly tells us that "normalising" LGBT lifestyles will have serious impact, esp to a tiny country like Singapore.

And I believe that there are people out there who are sitting on the fence about their sexualities, esp the younger ones. If LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal, these people will have a HIGHER probability to tip towards the LGBT side, isnt it?

 

Singapore has not reached the level of recognizing same sex marriage, we are still trying to 'decriminalize' ourselves.

Homosexuality has been around for a long long time. The concept of marriage has more to do with legal issues, e.g. legitimacy of sexual access, legitimacy of offspring than to do with love. 

 

I used to think that with normalizing, there will be more people tipping towards LGBT lifestyle. But I'm not sure now. They could also tip towards heterosexuality or remain closeted. 

 

Will the birth rate drop if the LGBT is legalized in Singapore? At this moment with 377A still looming over us, the birth rate is still dropping. Hmmm...in fact, if LGBT is legalized, the birth rate might just increase.

[Guest no more a christian]

I was a christian for 20+ years and if fact my whole family became christian because of me but I struggled silently with the condemnation from the church,....the bible...the pastors regarding my being gay (which of course they don't know) until I decided to call it quit 10 years ago. it took almost 10 years to get over the guilt and undo those chirstian indoctrinations so I can live with my sexuality without guilt and not feel like a sinner.

 

I'm finally free from the bondage. I feel normal now not being made to feel like a sinner destined for hell every time I hear a sermon or read the bible. This is normalisation for me.

 

These christians don't know what they are talking about when they say 'love the sinner and hate the sins'.

 

 

[Guest peace]

This is based on the perception that being gay is inferior compared to being straight. And the misconception is perpetuated the inequality and ignorance of the majority about sexuality.

If there is nothing wrong about being gay or straight, everyone then will have the freedom to choose how they want to express themselves

I wont use the word "inferior"

But the simple fact that nature forbids us to procreate has already put us in disadvantage

[Guest peace]

5% is relative to the total if u understand the concept of percentage.

5% of the population in sg will contribute only 5% impact..similarly 5% of china population will also contribute 5% impact in china

Got your point

But my point is, we never know how great the 5% impact may be, certain impacts cannot simply be measured by mere numbers only

[Guest Guest]

Is he the pastor who is most vocal against lgbt in sg? Heck, even in catholic church, I heard priests who gave sermon during mass to urge ppl to be more compassionate towards gay.

Could he be closeted like those pastors in the States condemning homosexuality until they got caught with hiring male escort for holiday trip?

There are so many social issues in Singapore, why doesn't he direct them instead of making the defenseless minority as a scapegoat. Of course, it is a politically safe issue to take advantage of, like those happening in other countries too

[Guest peace]

I was a christian for 20+ years and if fact my whole family became christian because of me but I struggled silently with the condemnation from the church,....the bible...the pastors regarding my being gay (which of course they don't know) until I decided to call it quit 10 years ago. it took almost 10 years to get over the guilt and undo those chirstian indoctrinations so I can live with my sexuality without guilt and not feel like a sinner.

I'm finally free from the bondage. I feel normal now not being made to feel like a sinner destined for hell every time I hear a sermon or read the bible. This is normalisation for me.

These christians don't know what they are talking about when they say 'love the sinner and hate the sins'.

U must have a hard time

But can I tell you this:

Whether you are a gay or a pastor, it makes no diff in the eyes of God, cos we are all sinners. This world is full of pots and kettles calling one another black. Why bother about them when your focus and faith shd be on God and not mankind?

[Guest Guest]

they are not us.. they can never hear our inner cries.

something which is born within us are deemed evil for them...

we can now understand how those being malign and misunderstood feels... the struggles..

[Guest Guest]

I wont use the word "inferior"

But the simple fact that nature forbids us to procreate has already put us in disadvantage

What is nature but just ur own definition. Don't learn the truth of nature from humans.......learn it from the animal and plant kingdoms. U should be aware that they are same sex behaviours in both animals and plants too. Wanna ask pastor kong to preach the gospel to them? It's the self righteous human beings that make a big fuss of it.

 

People who think that they know what is normal and natural for all people to obey and follow are just narrow minded.

[Guest Guest]

we can now understand how those being malign and misunderstood feels... the struggles..

U know this is one of the things I am grateful for for being gay. It makes me a more compassionate person.

I always believe that the oppressed minority is a gift for the majority to show compassion to. Imagine if in the world everyone is perfect and equal, how do you express love and empathy. That's why in the bible, Jesus said that he can be found in those in the prison, homeless, and sick. It is up to us how do we respond to them, whether to accept them as one of our own or to shun them

[Guest Guest]

U must have a hard time

But can I tell you this:

Whether you are a gay or a pastor, it makes no diff in the eyes of God, cos we are all sinners. This world is full of pots and kettles calling one another black. Why bother about them when your focus and faith shd be on God and not mankind?

U see, I got to a point where I can only conclude that if there is a God then he must be blind and deaf for what he had been speaking through the Christians didn't bring me a drop of peace and happiness. And now he's speaking through pastor kong again.....how irritating

 

 

[Guest Guest]

I wont use the word "inferior"

But the simple fact that nature forbids us to procreate has already put us in disadvantage

Eh u r making another judgement.. Why is procreation deemed an advantage? Each of us has a different calling in life. Some choose to become parents, some don't. No one is better than anyone. It is just the freedom to live the life you want

[Guest Guest]

U see, I got to a point where I can only conclude that if there is a God then he must be blind and deaf for what he had been speaking through the Christians didn't bring me a drop of peace and happiness. And now he's speaking through pastor kong again.....how irritating

I too am a catholic..probably gone thru what u did too..

Had a lot of questions on Christianity and fortunately found the answers from the book 'What God Wants?'

http://www.amazon.com/What-God-Wants-Compelling-Humanitys/dp/0743267141

'Conversations with God' also highly recommended. It changes my mind about so many things on church teaching. The concepts r radical but it resonant with your instinct cos you know deeply that it is truth versus what have been indoctrinated by the church.

[Guest Guest]

I too am a catholic..probably gone thru what u did too..

Had a lot of questions on Christianity and fortunately found the answers from the book 'What God Wants?'

http://www.amazon.com/What-God-Wants-Compelling-Humanitys/dp/0743267141

'Conversations with God' also highly recommended. It changes my mind about so many things on church teaching. The concepts r radical but it resonant with your instinct cos you know deeply that it is truth versus what have been indoctrinated by the church.

Yeah I read so many books ...including the ones u mentioned....once I had the courage to break away from the church. I learnt about new age spirituality...Hinduism....Taoism ...went to India and Nepal to learn meditation........but finally it is the Buddhist philosophy that helps me come to term with my being gay without sacrificing my spirituality. I know many gay christians had gone through or are going through what I went through. It is a spiritual journey to finally realise who you really are despite the prejudice and discrimination. Hang on brothers and sisters....I'm sure you will finally see the light of day as I did.

[Guest Guest]

Yeah I read so many books ...including the ones u mentioned....once I had the courage to break away from the church. I learnt about new age spirituality...Hinduism....Taoism ...went to India and Nepal to learn meditation........but finally it is the Buddhist philosophy that helps me come to term with my being gay without sacrificing my spirituality. I know many gay christians had gone through or are going through what I went through. It is a spiritual journey to finally realise who you really are despite the prejudice and discrimination. Hang on brothers and sisters....I'm sure you will finally see the light of day as I did.

Haha me too..exploring other religions and new age stuff too..particularly drawn to Buddhism also..btw do u know that there r claims that so Jesus before started his ministry went to India to learn about buddhism..that's why there is no record of his life in the bible from age 12 to 30. There r documentary videos. Search YouTube 'Jesus and buddhism'

[Guest Guest]

Haha me too..exploring other religions and new age stuff too..particularly drawn to Buddhism also..btw do u know that there r claims that so Jesus before started his ministry went to India to learn about buddhism..that's why there is no record of his life in the bible from age 12 to 30. There r documentary videos. Search YouTube 'Jesus and buddhism'

yeah I found the book 'Jesus lived in India' in a Buddhist shop in Chinatown many years ago and read about that. There is even the tomb of Jesus still there in northern India. I still have the book with me

 

There's another book I treasure which had Jesus' and Buddha's teachings side by side that show how similar their philosophies are. Coming from a Christian background, I could really appreciate the convergence of their compassions.

[Guest peace]

U see, I got to a point where I can only conclude that if there is a God then he must be blind and deaf for what he had been speaking through the Christians didn't bring me a drop of peace and happiness. And now he's speaking through pastor kong again.....how irritating

U see, u are still focusing on people and not God

U have to remember this, even God's people were/are not perfect, including the way they preach the gospel. And dont forget too, we have been warned by the scriptures about false pastors or preachers who will lead people astray.

[Guest peace]

Eh u r making another judgement.. Why is procreation deemed an advantage? Each of us has a different calling in life. Some choose to become parents, some don't. No one is better than anyone. It is just the freedom to live the life you want

Simply because, without procreation, there will be no new life on earth, be it flora, fauna or humankind

And yes, each of us has different callings, but we must admit that the procreation part of nature has made homosexuality seems unnatural

But as a gay, of course I feel unnatural if I was to be intimate with a female

[Guest Guest]

U see, u are still focusing on people and not God

U have to remember this, even God's people were/are not perfect, including the way they preach the gospel. And dont forget too, we have been warned by the scriptures about false pastors or preachers who will lead people astray.

yes focusing on people like u who are always speaking on behalf of God. But I can understand where u are coming from. I was like you before. I was a converted christian...first Pentecostal...even spoke in tongues....then Presbyterian....so I really know how u feel about God. But I'm really happy now that I'm done with it. I'm still gay but not Christian. I could have ended still being Christian but pretending not being gay. It didn't come easy and impossible for christians like u to fathom.  I rather be true to myself.

[Respell19]

Don't make this a normal lifestyle = Gays are abnormal

NS is part of the nation which is normal. Therefore, gays should not serve NS.

 

Wow, did I just come up with that equation? Hmm.

[Guest peace]

What is nature but just ur own definition. Don't learn the truth of nature from humans.......learn it from the animal and plant kingdoms. U should be aware that they are same sex behaviours in both animals and plants too. Wanna ask pastor kong to preach the gospel to them? It's the self righteous human beings that make a big fuss of it.

People who think that they know what is normal and natural for all people to obey and follow are just narrow minded.

Hmm, somehow I got this feeling I am speaking to a young chap here

We cannot be compared to the flora and fauna in such a simple manner, because they live mostly based on survival and reproduction instincts, but we humans are much more than that. And we follow different sets of the laws of nature.

The flora and fauna are created differently from us. Take for eg. the earthworm, which is a hermaphrodite, so it is normal and natural for you to have both the male n female sex organs n make babies by yourself IF ONLY YOU ARE AN EARTHWORM. If a human is a hermaphrodite, it will be seen as unnatural, just like homosexuality. Because our physical bodies are not created for homosexuality, thats why lube has to be used to lubricate the asshole before penetration, whereas it is not so much of a hassle if you are penetrating a pussy.

But we humans have finer feelings. And these feelings may surpass the physical restraints that nature has unkindly bestowed on us. So, while it is obviously unnatural on the physical aspect to be a homosexual, it may not be so in the emotional aspect.

[Guest Guest]

Hmm, somehow I got this feeling I am speaking to a young chap here

We cannot be compared to the flora and fauna in such a simple manner, because they live mostly based on survival and reproduction instincts, but we humans are much more than that. And we follow different sets of the laws of nature.

The flora and fauna are created differently from us. Take for eg. the earthworm, which is a hermaphrodite, so it is normal and natural for you to have both the male n female sex organs n make babies by yourself IF ONLY YOU ARE AN EARTHWORM. If a human is a hermaphrodite, it will be seen as unnatural, just like homosexuality. Because our physical bodies are not created for homosexuality, thats why lube has to be used to lubricate the asshole before penetration, whereas it is not so much of a hassle if you are penetrating a pussy.

But we humans have finer feelings. And these feelings may surpass the physical restraints that nature has unkindly bestowed on us. So, while it is obviously unnatural on the physical aspect to be a homosexual, it may not be so in the emotional aspect.

young chap? I'm sure God impressed upon u that feeling! Totally wrong. There are scientific journals pertaining to these facts about same sex behaviours in nature. If u bother to do some readings....there are even anthropological studies on these behaviours. Ur narrow minded arguments based on ur personal Christian God inspired views and teachings are of no interest to an ex-Christian gay like me.

[Guest peace]

yes focusing on people like u who are always speaking on behalf of God. But I can understand where u are coming from. I was like you before. I was a converted christian...first Pentecostal...even spoke in tongues....then Presbyterian....so I really know how u feel about God. But I'm really happy now that I'm done with it. I'm still gay but not Christian. I could have ended still being Christian but pretending not being gay. It didn't come easy and impossible for christians like u to fathom. I rather be true to myself.

I spkg on behalf of God? Oh no no no. I am just giving you my own point of view.

And doesnt matter which denomination u have been through, I would like to emphasise again, your focus has to be correct, and that is God.

U may think I am being holy or self-righteous, but tell u honestly, I am not leading a holy life like a priest. During Judgement Day, I may have a long list of stuff to answer to Him. In fact I was away from God and church for more than ten yrs before returning to Him two yrs ago.

What I am trying to say is, if you focus on humankind for hope n salvation, you will just be utterly disappointed. Focus on the above, and give allowance for the below to make mistakes as human.

Dont forget one of the two criminals who was nailed on the cross beside Jesus, accepted Jesus as lord before he passed on. And Jesus said he will join Him in heaven. Did the criminal lead a wholesome life? I dont really think so. But because of His faith in Jesus, he was allowed to join Him in heaven. This is what we call Grace.

So bro, you may give up on human, but pls dont give up on God. I have been through what you are experiencing now for more than ten yrs, thats why I am confident to share with you.

[Guest Joke]

Their draggy court case really shows that in Singapore, as long as you are filthily rich, you can keep on dragging and postponing the verdict on court case, it's really a big joke

[Guest Pastor Khong]

We should not just be looking at this issue from our LGBT point of view. The fact that until now, most places still do not allow or recognise same sex marriage clearly tells us that "normalising" LGBT lifestyles will have serious impact, esp to a tiny country like Singapore.

And I believe that there are people out there who are sitting on the fence about their sexualities, esp the younger ones. If LGBT lifestyles are seen as normal, these people will have a HIGHER probability to tip towards the LGBT side, isnt it?

 

If they tip towards the LGBT side means they are LGBT. It is the same as saying they might be forced to tip towards the non LGBT side that made the biggest mistake of their life all because they were pressured by how their pastors preached about gays.

[Guest peace]

young chap? I'm sure God impressed upon u that feeling! Totally wrong. There are scientific journals pertaining to these facts about same sex behaviours in nature. If u bother to do some readings....there are even anthropological studies on these behaviours. Ur narrow minded arguments based on ur personal Christian God inspired views and teachings are of no interest to an ex-Christian gay like me.

Yes, same sex behaviour in NATURE can be natural for certain species of the animal and plant kingdoms. Some even can change their sex to suit the situation.

Too bad not for humans.

Anyway, I can sense your frustration, which may lead our discussion to become bitchy, so I am going to shut up from here.

[Guest Guest]

I spkg on behalf of God? Oh no no no. I am just giving you my own point of view.

And doesnt matter which denomination u have been through, I would like to emphasise again, your focus has to be correct, and that is God.

U may think I am being holy or self-righteous, but tell u honestly, I am not leading a holy life like a priest. During Judgement Day, I may have a long list of stuff to answer to Him. In fact I was away from God and church for more than ten yrs before returning to Him two yrs ago.

What I am trying to say is, if you focus on humankind for hope n salvation, you will just be utterly disappointed. Focus on the above, and give allowance for the below to make mistakes as human.

Dont forget one of the two criminals who was nailed on the cross beside Jesus, accepted Jesus as lord before he passed on. And Jesus said he will join Him in heaven. Did the criminal lead a wholesome life? I dont really think so. But because of His faith in Jesus, he was allowed to join Him in heaven. This is what we call Grace.

So bro, you may give up on human, but pls dont give up on God. I have been through what you are experiencing now for more than ten yrs, thats why I am confident to share with you.

The most important thing is I haven't given up on myself. But I've gladly given up what was not a productive and conducive religion for my well being as a gay. Despite this, I respect other's rights to their beliefs...Christians or not. If God is concerned about me, he'll do something about it so u don't have to be his intermediary.

[Guest Pastor Khong]

Simply because, without procreation, there will be no new life on earth, be it flora, fauna or humankind

And yes, each of us has different callings, but we must admit that the procreation part of nature has made homosexuality seems unnatural

But as a gay, of course I feel unnatural if I was to be intimate with a female

 

So if this is all about procreation, why don't you talk about procreation to the priest? And preach about the lifestyle of priest the same way you preach about gay lifestyle.

[Guest peace]

If they tip towards the LGBT side means they are LGBT. It is the same as saying they might be forced to tip towards the non LGBT side that made the biggest mistake of their life all because they were pressured by how their pastors preached about gays.

Hi Pastor,

These people may be more flex than us, thats why can sit on the fence. So even if "forced" to the non LGBT side, they wont feel as if they are making the biggest mistake.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, same sex behaviour in NATURE can be natural for certain species of the animal and plant kingdoms. Some even can change their sex to suit the situation.

Too bad not for humans.

Anyway, I can sense your frustration, which may lead our discussion to become bitchy, so I am going to shut up from here.

Who decides this: 'Too bad not for humans'.  I suspect the decision comes from humans who think like God.

 

The one thing that is always frustrating discussing anything with Christians is the total lack of objectivity.

[Guest Pastor Khong]

Hi Pastor,

These people may be more flex than us, thats why can sit on the fence. So even if "forced" to the non LGBT side, they wont feel as if they are making the biggest mistake.

That is what you think Peace, that is what you think.

[Guest peace]

The most important thing is I haven't given up on myself. But I've gladly given up what was not a productive and conducive religion for my well being as a gay. Despite this, I respect other's rights to their beliefs...Christians or not. If God is concerned about me, he'll do something about it so u don't have to be his intermediary.

I not sure in what ways I have given u the impression like as if I am God-sent, but I am not. Just sharing my experience of my ten yrs of cold war with God regarding my sexual orientation.

Btw, I am still gay.

And you are right in saying God will do something for you if He cares for you. But I hope you dont have to wait ten yrs like me.

[Guest Guest]

I not sure in what ways I have given u the impression like as if I am God-sent, but I am not. Just sharing my experience of my ten yrs of cold war with God regarding my sexual orientation.

Btw, I am still gay.

And you are right in saying God will do something for you if He cares for you. But I hope you dont have to wait ten yrs like me.

ten years? I waited 20+ years! But it's got nothing to do with God. It's was my own foolishness. When I could finally see myself not as a sinner anymore....I was liberated. Of course I don't expected you to understand this. If you can be gay and Christian and happy, I congratulate you. But believe me, I don't have to be gay and Christian to be happy. Pls don't hope and pray for me.

[Guest Guest]

Simply because, without procreation, there will be no new life on earth, be it flora, fauna or humankind

And yes, each of us has different callings, but we must admit that the procreation part of nature has made homosexuality seems unnatural

But as a gay, of course I feel unnatural if I was to be intimate with a female

So infertile straight couples are also unnatural???

[yoyo74]

Yes, same sex behaviour in NATURE can be natural for certain species of the animal and plant kingdoms. Some even can change their sex to suit the situation.

Too bad not for humans.

Anyway, I can sense your frustration, which may lead our discussion to become bitchy, so I am going to shut up from here.

Gay is naturally created by fathers and mothers and homosexuality affection is also naturally in born and is natural. Procreation is just a process to create babies. To say that homosexuality is unnatural is trying to put words in Gods mouth or the person is trying to be God himself.

[Guest Guest]

What I am trying to say is, if you focus on humankind for hope n salvation, you will just be utterly disappointed. Focus on the above, and give allowance for the below to make mistakes as human.

Dont forget one of the two criminals who was nailed on the cross beside Jesus, accepted Jesus as lord before he passed on. And Jesus said he will join Him in heaven. Did the criminal lead a wholesome life? I dont really think so. But because of His faith in Jesus, he was allowed to join Him in heaven. This is what we call Grace.

 

This totally makes no sense at all. We can go around robbing, murdering, raping, stealing etc & commit all sorts of crimes, but because of our faith in J, we are still allowed into Heaven? I believe this is a distorted interpretation of misled believers. This is definitely not what the bible meant. I thought there's supposed to be punishment for sins on judgement day? Fortunately no jurisdiction in this world adopts such an approach, otherwise the whole world will be in chaos.

 

Someone above wrote "The one thing that is always frustrating discussing anything with Christians is the total lack of objectivity." I totally agree, based on my own experience. 

[Guest Guest]

Having faith is just the first step. It doesn't stop there. If it is so simple, Jesus wouldnt say in the bible that " it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"

Christians should ask themselves whether they hv really 'follow' Christ by living the life to be the Light of the world - feed the hungry, clothe the naked, look after the sick.

The Christian churches preach the salvation to be as easy as by just having 'faith' and paying tithes will land a lot of Christians with a rude shock when they die.

Btw, during the judgment day it might not be God who judges, it is you when enter the light, not having lived a righteous life, cannot stand the light which is so pure and intense.

http://www.verybestquotes.com/?attachment_id=29674

[Guest emomomo]

@at peace

I don't think anyone, much less a gay man like yourself, should put any stock in the whole "unnatural" argument.

The simple reason is that it appeals to an arbitrary standard without much basis. People classify things as natural and unnatural to suit their purpose. Like for example, a mouth has teeth and was evolved to consume food. Then why would we go around putting our genitalia in each other's mouths! Isn't that unnatural? It is also pretty unhygienic too. But that isn't illegal. Why stop at oral sex? Just kissing (again using mouths for things other than eating) is a great way to get all kinds of germs from the other person. I don't think any evolutionary biologists has said that kissing is a natural function of the mouth. An even better example is our teeth. Humans have canines, suggesting that we evolved to eat meat. Yet the current meat industry produces a ton of co2 gas that is creating climate change. So are we supposed to insist on eating meat because is "natural"? Are vegetarians unnatural and should be arrested under the law?

The fact is that humanity is doing so many things that are beyond our "natural". Like staring at backlit computer screens that slowly destroy our eyesight. Once you consider the above its readily obvious that the word "natural" doesn't really mean anything in particular and it is just a label that people use when it is convenient.