Buddhism Discussion

[Steve5380]

I don't want to contradict any beliefs.  I simply have a different classification of realms.

 

Human Realm, Animal Realm:   REAL Realms

 

God Realm, Demi God Realm, Hungry Ghost Realm and Hell Realm:  IMAGINARY Realms, created by the Human Realm and possibly, by some members of the Animal Realm.

[Guest What???????????]

5 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

I don't want to contradict any beliefs.  I simply have a different classification of realms.

 

Human Realm, Animal Realm:   REAL Realms

 

God Realm, Demi God Realm, Hungry Ghost Realm and Hell Realm:  IMAGINARY Realms, created by the Human Realm and possibly, by some members of the Animal Realm.

Everyone has their on Realm. They are unique to individual.  

[Steve5380]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:30 PM, fenghou said:

 

Would like the help of good spirited folks here if you don't mind and here goes:

Recently, my faith and belief in Buddhism has faded and this has caused me to be depressed, unmotivated and at times even some dark thoughts.

 

However, I am struggling with the belief system now. Please allow me to explain why:

 

My family is Christian, they are very accepting of other belief system and they are not the toxic type of Christians who fearmonger with tales of "Hell" and condemnation.

 

 

It is natural that faith, belief in one's religion fades with time.  We are rational animals, we think, gain experience, make conclusions.  We don't put different religions at odds,  they ARE already at odds.  All we do is open our eyes, our mind and the results come in.  This should not be a reason to be depressed, lose motivation.  Instead, we have to recognize this as our spiritual progress.   You don't become a worse person by losing faith in your religion. 

 

The best is to transition into agnosticism.  You simply change from "faith" to ignorance.  It is morally acceptable to recognize our ignorance of any supernatural.  And this includes the domain of religions.  But we don't give up our religiousness.  This is the inclination of our spirit to go beyond the knowledgeable, and speculate about the unknown.  We don't accept atheism, because this is also a BELIEF in that there is no unknown. 

 

Your belief is fading, and this is mostly about the details that evolved in the religion.  Possibly the principles of Buddhism are still clear in your mind as something perennial.  They are also in my mind, and I was not educated in Buddhism.  I was raised as a Catholic, and I soon lost belief in its doctrine.  Yet its principles, attributed to Jesus Christ, are my moral guidelines, and they don't conflict with the principles of Buddhism. 

 

Blessed be your family, which accepts that you have or had your own religious beliefs.  I was similarly blessed because my Jewish family raised me as a Catholic, the religion in my native country. 

 

On 5/21/2024 at 11:30 PM, fenghou said:

 

In the month of May 2024, the churched focused on family values and on how you can reunite with your departed loved ones in the Kingdom of God eventually after the events of revelation has happened. I know of such promises by the Christian belief system even in the past, but as now, the reality that my parents will eventually pass becomes more real, I am more allured by it. The reality of reuniting with them eventually is such a comforting thing and I am swayed.

 

 

Christianity teaches that in the afterlife we will be reunited with the persons we loved in this life, like our parents and children.  We will be in heaven (if we lived a righteous life) and after the day of final judgment when Christ returns to earth we will recover our earthly bodies.  All these are attractive promises.  ATTRACTIVE is the crux of the matter. And these promises may have originated in good faith,  to attract the worshippers of the religion and convey to them the gift of salvation. 

 

How much credibility can we give to these promises, so clearly attractive...  and perhaps enticing?  We agnostic could speculate that in the afterlife, our souls may be upgraded to a love that is not limited to a few but is universal, encompassing all fellow human souls. As agnostic we have the right to speculate in many other possibilities, theories, and we don't need Christianity to have a positive outlook to our afterlife.  In this way, we don't give up much by changing from faith to speculations. 

 

In your post you show that you have good moral values,  and they will be preserved as you eventually transition from a state of strong faith to a recognition of our universal ignorance, which you will accept without being disturbed by it.  Isn't this a valuable principle of Buddhism,  the DETACHMENT?   I wish you all the best. 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest What??????????? said:

Everyone has their on Realm. They are unique to individual.  

 

You don't need so many interrogation signs.  What you and I believe, is shared by a majority of people.

[Guest Mathew 6:27]

Anxiety, depression, and worry result from an over attachment to material things, especially one's own body.  Christians hold that until you are raised to heaven, your body serves as a transient holy sanctuary.  Buddhists hold that the body is merely an empty vessel that you must ultimately give up.   The body begins to deteriorate or hurt you in order to make you more eager to let go of it when the time comes.   Nobody knows what will happen in the aftermath, and your personal beliefs—religious or not—will greatly influence how you navigate this trip.    Being a human is an inevitable fate for everyone, regardless of wealth, appearance, or strength.  The good news is that you're not by yourself,  among 8 billion of people, confronting the same worries, depression and anxiety in some degree as you.   Religion was birth from human sufferings, thus serves as a spiritual healing medicines.  It is free, regardless you have faith or not.

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, Guest Mathew 6:27 said:

Anxiety, depression, and worry result from an over attachment to material things, especially one's own body.  Christians hold that until you are raised to heaven, your body serves as a transient holy sanctuary.  Buddhists hold that the body is merely an empty vessel that you must ultimately give up.   The body begins to deteriorate or hurt you in order to make you more eager to let go of it when the time comes.   Nobody knows what will happen in the aftermath, and your personal beliefs—religious or not—will greatly influence how you navigate this trip.    Being a human is an inevitable fate for everyone, regardless of wealth, appearance, or strength.  The good news is that you're not by yourself,  among 8 billion of people, confronting the same worries, depression and anxiety in some degree as you.   Religion was birth from human sufferings, thus serves as a spiritual healing medicines.  It is free, regardless you have faith or not.

 

Mathew 6:27 is something of the past.  Today, by worrying about living a healthy life we can add many hours to our lifespan.

 

We can also feel anxiety, depression over spiritual things.  It is not clear what is "over attachment to one's own body", but we better have a good attachment to our body to take good care of it.   Is our body a transient holy sanctuary, or an empty vessel?   I have a more modern concept:

 

I like to equate us to a computer.  The body is the hardware, and our spirit is the operating system running an endless loop waiting to be interrupted by the programs, apps. Our learning and experiences make up the programs, apps, and all runs using the permanent SSD memory and the volatile one.  My concept comes from living in this era, neither the Buddha nor Jesus Christ had the concept of a computer.

[fenghou]

15 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

...

 

...

 

...  I was raised as a Catholic, and I soon lost belief in its doctrine.  Yet its principles, attributed to Jesus Christ, are my moral guidelines, and they don't conflict with the principles of Buddhism. 

 

...

 

 

Christianity teaches that in the afterlife we will be reunited with the persons we loved in this life, like our parents and children.  We will be in heaven (if we lived a righteous life) and after the day of final judgment when Christ returns to earth we will recover our earthly bodies.  All these are attractive promises.  ATTRACTIVE is the crux of the matter. And these promises may have originated in good faith,  to attract the worshippers of the religion and convey to them the gift of salvation. 

...

...

These speak greatly to me because they are extremely similar to my struggles.

Thank you for sharing.

 

I find the attractive promise of reunion in physical bodies problematic. Personally it will make more sense if the reunion is ethereal and non-physical, if not a lot of inconvenient questions will come to mind. May I ask which are the verses in the Bible which spoke of this? So that I can have my own inquisition ?

 

Thank you very much for your sharing. 

[Steve5380]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:31 PM, fenghou said:

These speak greatly to me because they are extremely similar to my struggles.

Thank you for sharing.

 

I find the attractive promise of reunion in physical bodies problematic. Personally it will make more sense if the reunion is ethereal and non-physical, if not a lot of inconvenient questions will come to mind. May I ask which are the verses in the Bible which spoke of this? So that I can have my own inquisition ?

 

Thank you very much for your sharing. 

 

Yes, we both have the same questions about the supernatural and the afterlife.  But this does not need to be a struggle.  You are surely much younger than I,  therefore you have much more time than I to research the subject before reaching the afterlife.  And I think that we should not struggle with these questions but approach them as a curiosity.  Whatever reality will be,  we should accept it with an open mind. 

 

If you google " verses in the bible that speak of our reunions after death "  for example,  you will get plenty of information about the many verses in the Bible that address this. Here is one site:

 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/reunited_with_loved_ones_in_heaven

 

But remember,  the Bible was not written by a divinity but by men, although it is argued that they were "divinely inspired".   If a divinity exists,  our own inspired speculations are equally of divine nature because...  because we were divinely created, no?   

.

 

 

Edited May 28 by Steve5380

[Guest How Dare U!]

4 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

 the Bible was not written by a divinity but by men, although it is argued that they were "divinely inspired".   If a divinity exists,  our own inspired speculations are equally of divine nature because...  because we were divinely created, no?   

 

 

Books were written by scientists.  Will the texts that doctors authored a millennium ago still be relevant today?  Similar to this, religious writings from more than 2000 years ago, even if they were penned by human, might not be wholly irrational or untrustworthy.  Like Steve Job or Albert Einstein, those were the chosen ones.  It is absurd of you to despise the works of those selected people.

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, Guest How Dare U! said:

Books were written by scientists.  Will the texts that doctors authored a millennium ago still be relevant today?  Similar to this, religious writings from more than 2000 years ago, even if they were penned by human, might not be wholly irrational or untrustworthy.  Like Steve Job or Albert Einstein, those were the chosen ones.  It is absurd of you to despise the works of those selected people.

 

I wrote that the Bible was not written by any divinity but by fellow human beings. This does not despise their writings, but is in line with my idea that all humans we have the potential to have advanced inspirations, and this is what we should aim for to research our existential questions. 

 

The writings in the Bible are not irrational, they were made for clever reasons,  but they don't have to be trustworthy. In the days of Moses the earth might have been flat, and in the days of the writers of the Gospels there were only 4 elements:  Earth, Water, Air and Fire.  Do you trust this???    How can fire be an "element"???   OUR speculations today are much more trustworthy since our science is much more advanced.  And in some thousands of years speculations may be even better.

 

The Old Testament was written for the ancient Jews.  And modern Jews don't give much credence to the Genesis, but take it as allegoric.  So why should WE have to believe in it?   The promises made by organized religions can be suspicious since they can be justified as a way to attract followers.  In the same way, the punishments claimed by them can be interpreted as ways to empower the religion.

 

We should trust our own ideas, speculations, as long as they are made in good faith.  Because we don't have any ulterior motives but only aim to answer our existential questions, and it is not even important that these questions are answered, we can have a happy life while IGNORING these questions.  Que sera, sera... (sung by Doris Day 🎹)  

 

 

Edited May 25 by Steve5380

[Icywindy84]

My humble view is that there is no difference between buddhism and other religions. Because they all wish their believers to be compassionate and forgiving to wrongdoers. 

[Steve5380]

Today I found a video that is in perfect line with what I also think about Buddhism:

 

 

What I like in it is the idea that religiousness goes far beyond the belief in a god, and may not even include it,  but is an interest, an inclination to speculate about the nature of spiritual life and therefore our own nature.   And in this speculation we recognize that as humans we all have a spirituality that we should trust and use as our guidance.  And so the principles of Buddhism are not something "Eastern" or "Western" but apply universally. 

 

Am I correct in my thinking about Buddhism?  You who are the experts, please correct me if it is not so. 

[amuse.ed]

YouTube algorithm highlighted this video link in Mandarin by Zeng Shi Qiang. The differentiation between 佛教徒 vs 佛教徒 reminded me that its so easy to create divisions among religion and sub divisions within the same religion. This also applies to other religions ie. Christians Taoist Hinduism too.

 

 

 

Meta AI has encapsulated the concept pretty well.

 

佛教徒 (fó jiào tú) and 佛徒 (fó tú) are two Chinese terms that both refer to a Buddhist follower or practitioner, but there is a subtle difference between them:

 

佛教徒 (fó jiào tú) specifically means:

 

- A follower or adherent of Buddhism as a religion or doctrine.

- Someone who practices Buddhism and follows its teachings, rituals, and practices.

- A Buddhist devotee or disciple who has formally taken refuge in the Three Jewels (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha).

 

On the other hand, 佛徒 (fó tú) is a more general term that means:

 

- A person who follows or is influenced by Buddhist teachings or principles.

- Someone who practices Buddhist meditation, mindfulness, or other spiritual practices without necessarily being a devoted follower of the religion.

- A person who has an affinity for Buddhist philosophy or culture without necessarily identifying as a Buddhist.

In summary, 佛教徒 (fó jiào tú) typically refers to a committed Buddhist practitioner or devotee, while 佛徒 (fó tú) encompasses a broader range of people who engage with Buddhist ideas or practices to varying degrees.

 

佛教徒 (fó jiào tú) generally has lesser tolerance for other religious scriptures. This term typically refers to a devout Buddhist who has committed to the teachings and practices of Buddhism and may view other religions as lesser or inferior. In some cases, they might even see other religions as contradictory to Buddhist teachings.

 

On the other hand, 佛徒 (fó tú) has a more inclusive and open-minded connotation. This term encompasses a broader range of people who may be interested in Buddhist teachings, but also respect and explore other spiritual traditions. They might see value in other religions and philosophies, and may even incorporate elements from multiple traditions into their spiritual practice.

Edited May 28 by amuse.ed

[wanton_mee]

On 5/23/2024 at 6:43 PM, Swimfun said:

We might not be able to transcend the six realms in this life, but we can move to higher realms, such as the God Realm (天道) or Human Realm (人道), to continue our 修心 (practice) and get closer to attaining enlightenment. The six realms include:

 

1. 天道 (God Realm)
2. 人道 (Human Realm)
3. 阿修罗道 (Demi God Realm)
4. 畜生道 (Animal Realm)
5. 饿鬼道 (Hungry Ghost Realm)
6. 地狱道 (Hell Realm)

I heard from a 法师say. 天人死后更惨。多数享福享乐忘了苦。堕落。

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, amuse.ed said:

 

YouTube algorithm highlighted this video link in Mandarin by Zeng Shi Qiang. The differentiation between 佛教徒 vs 佛教徒 reminded me that its so easy to create divisions among religion and sub divisions within the same religion. This also applies to other religions ie. Christians Taoist Hinduism too.

 

 

To post a video about Buddhism that is spoken in Mandarin without subtitles, isn't this an act of reserving Buddhism to the Chinese?

[Steve5380]

The person Bertrand Russell is a universally known intellectual, mathematician, philosopher of the 20th century.  I heard about him many times, but never read about his philosophy.  This is why the following video has impressed me so much, finding that he reached the same conclusions I have as a senior.  This video should be also something of interest to @fenghou:

 

 

 

There you have it.  A model of rationale who went through the same intellectual struggles as you and I.  And it lead to a happy, successful life.  Disillusioned with Christianity, he found much truth in the principles of Buddhism ( not its cult ).  But even without any faith,  he retained an emotional attachment to Christianity.  My experience is similar,  without ever having believed in Jesus Christ as a God,  the details of his life, real or not, makes me emotional.  And so, I don't hold any grudge against the Catholic Christianity, even with its false condemnation of homosexuality and other exaggerations.

 

And how about our reunion with our beloved after death?  Can this be more than a convenient enticing promise?  One day you will have to mourn the passing of your parents.  This is a suffering that comes to us when we live a long life. Here is where the impermanence in Buddhism comes to our help. The memory of our departed beloved should not be an obstacle to our happiness.  Five years ago my beloved bf passed away, and I have not stopped mourning, and I probably never will.  I retain a non-zero probability that the Christian promise is real, but that is it.  ( sometimes I wish for the end of my life out of impatience to know what will come after, ha ha.  I am optimistic about that... ) 

[amuse.ed]

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

To post a video about Buddhism that is spoken in Mandarin without subtitles, isn't this an act of reserving Buddhism to the Chinese?

 

There's no language translation for the following video. The content touched little on Buddhism but mainly on how to live a more neutrality life and be less extreme in the understanding of religion. : )

[Swimfun]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:18 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

To post a video about Buddhism that is spoken in Mandarin without subtitles, isn't this an act of reserving Buddhism to the Chinese?

佛經上云，佛有「三不度」：無緣者，無信者，無願者。

[wanton_mee]

14 minutes ago, Swimfun said:

佛經上云，佛有「三不度」：無緣者，無信者，無願者。

将来有缘了，信了，发愿了还会度。

[Swimfun]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:38 PM, wanton_mee said:

I heard from a 法师say. 天人死后更惨。多数享福享乐忘了苦。堕落。

 

这就是个人的因果，业力与造化。

 

有些人打着理解、认识、学习、讨论和切磋佛法，但实际上是利用这些借口，用个人的宗教观点来谈论佛教，从而趁机诽谤三宝（佛、法、僧）。

 

若无法深入经藏，理解佛法，与其浪费时间诽谤三宝，不如把时间花在深入经藏，智慧如海。修行不靠诽谤，而靠本身的业力和因果。

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, Swimfun said:

佛經上云，佛有「三不度」：無緣者，無信者，無願者。

 

It makes sense that there are people who don't have faith, don't have wishes.  But... no destiny? 

 

Every living creature should have destiny.  Every living creature changes with time, therefore it has a future.   And the nature of this future is... It's Destiny.  "No destiny"  does not sound like Buddhism!   

[Swimfun]

4 hours ago, wanton_mee said:

将来有缘了，信了，发愿了还会度。

是的

[Swimfun]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It makes sense that there are people who don't have faith, don't have wishes.  But... no destiny? 

 

Every living creature should have destiny.  Every living creature changes with time, therefore it has a future.   And the nature of this future is... It's Destiny.  "No destiny"  does not sound like Buddhism!   

 

My apologies, but your translation does not accurately convey the true words and meaning of what I have shared. Additionally, your translation is not exactly what Buddha taught. Therefore, I would appeal to you not to guess, but to study more about Buddhism to understand the actual teachings of Buddha before trying to comments.

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, Swimfun said:

 

My apologies, but your translation does not accurately convey the true words and meaning of what I have shared. Additionally, your translation is not exactly what Buddha taught. Therefore, I would appeal to you not to guess, but to study more about Buddhism to understand the actual teachings of Buddha before trying to comments.

 

Yes, I have noticed how this free Google Translate is so imprecise translating from Mandarin.  Some translations are even ridiculous.  I will have to postpone for a next incarnation the study of Mandarin so that I can read the writings of Buddha in their original language.  

 

We Christians have the same problem with questionable translations of the Gospels from Aramaic and Greek into modern languages.  But...   there are more serious questions about them...  We have to do with what we have! 

[wanton_mee]

17 hours ago, Swimfun said:

 

My apologies, but your translation does not accurately convey the true words and meaning of what I have shared. Additionally, your translation is not exactly what Buddha taught. Therefore, I would appeal to you not to guess, but to study more about Buddhism to understand the actual teachings of Buddha before trying to comments.

😁  share your learning if anyone say something differently. 🙇‍♂️

[Steve5380]

17 hours ago, wanton_mee said:

😁  share your learning if anyone say something differently. 🙇‍♂️

 

His problem is that the only person who can be 100% correct in what the Buddha said is... Buddha himself. He didn't write, all his teachings were preserved by the writings his followers,  the same as is the case with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Look into:

 

https://iep.utm.edu/buddha/

b. Sources

The historical Buddha did not write down any of his teachings, they were passed down orally from generation to generation for at least three centuries. Some scholars have attempted to distinguish the Buddha’s original teachings from those developed by his early disciples. Unfortunately, the contradictory conclusions have led most scholars to be skeptical about the possibility of knowing what the Buddha really taught. This however, does not mean that all Buddhist texts that attribute teachings to the Buddha are equally valuable to reconstruct his thought. The early sūtras in Pāli and other Middle Indo-Aryan languages are historically and linguistically closer to the cultural context of the Buddha than Mahāyāna sūtras in Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Chinese. This does not imply that later translations of the early sūtras in Chinese (there are no Tibetan translations of the early sūtras) are less authentic or useless in reconstructing the philosophy of the Buddha. On the contrary, the comparative study of Pāli and Chinese versions of the early sūtras can help to infer what might have been the Buddha’s position on a number of issues.

...

 

Imagine... 300 years before any of Buddha's teachings were written down.   I draw no pleasure posting this observation, but it should give pause, so not to blame those who post here with guessing and not understanding the subject.  Buddha's philosophy can be understood by everyone, independently of how much details and add-ons have been attached to it.

[Guest Pure]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

His problem is that the only person who can be 100% correct in what the Buddha said is... Buddha himself. He didn't write, all his teachings were preserved by the writings his followers,  the same as is the case with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Look into:

 

https://iep.utm.edu/buddha/

b. Sources

The historical Buddha did not write down any of his teachings, they were passed down orally from generation to generation for at least three centuries. Some scholars have attempted to distinguish the Buddha’s original teachings from those developed by his early disciples. Unfortunately, the contradictory conclusions have led most scholars to be skeptical about the possibility of knowing what the Buddha really taught. This however, does not mean that all Buddhist texts that attribute teachings to the Buddha are equally valuable to reconstruct his thought. The early sūtras in Pāli and other Middle Indo-Aryan languages are historically and linguistically closer to the cultural context of the Buddha than Mahāyāna sūtras in Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Chinese. This does not imply that later translations of the early sūtras in Chinese (there are no Tibetan translations of the early sūtras) are less authentic or useless in reconstructing the philosophy of the Buddha. On the contrary, the comparative study of Pāli and Chinese versions of the early sūtras can help to infer what might have been the Buddha’s position on a number of issues.

...

 

Imagine... 300 years before any of Buddha's teachings were written down.   I draw no pleasure posting this observation, but it should give pause, so not to blame those who post here with guessing and not understanding the subject.  Buddha's philosophy can be understood by everyone, independently of how much details and add-ons have been attached to it.

 

I don’t think anyone is blaming anyone; it's purely a clarification. If he could, he would translate, but not everyone can be a good translator. At the very least, he clarifies the mistranslation and doesn't let it fester further. The truth's purity is not about getting rid of impurity or transforming impurity into purity. Buddha's teaching doesn't mean only those who believe in Buddhism can transcend the six realms. Read to understand and understand to learn more.

[Steve5380]

I apologize for having opinions about this religion I was not born into.  But now at the other end of life, I can realize that Buddhism is also helpful for those of us who happen to be LGBTQ and live alone by ourselves,  often a consequence of being excluded from the unions of marriage, or being despised by the nucleus of family. 

 

 

This IS so powerful!  The other side of the coin!  The blessings of solitude, which does not need to bring loneliness.

[wanton_mee]

 

 

You see rainbow from your view where you are but on my side ...rainbow？ where ah..u bluff me? Hahaha 😁

[wanton_mee]

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

I apologize for having opinions about this religion I was not born into.  But now at the other end of life, I can realize that Buddhism is also helpful for those of us who happen to be LGBTQ and live alone by ourselves,  often a consequence of being excluded from the unions of marriage, or being despised by the nucleus of family. 

 

 

This IS so powerful!  The other side of the coin!  The blessings of solitude, which does not need to bring loneliness.

Being alone? I cut off contact 90%of my friends and close friends because I feel they are burden to my efforts and my time. I don't feel lonely but I feel lighter hahah

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, wanton_mee said:

Being alone? I cut off contact 90%of my friends and close friends because I feel they are burden to my efforts and my time. I don't feel lonely but I feel lighter hahah

 

You are wise to give priority to your own well being.  But now that you did away with 90% of burdensome friends,  find other people who are not a burden, there are many,  with whom to socialize.  They don't need to be "friends", but they can be members of a group you are interested in being part of.

[Swimfun]

 

[Swimfun]

22 hours ago, wanton_mee said:

Being alone? I cut off contact 90%of my friends and close friends because I feel they are burden to my efforts and my time. I don't feel lonely but I feel lighter hahah

真诚清净平等正觉慈悲，看破放下自在随缘念佛。

[Guest hmmm]

In the past, Oogachaga used to organise trip for the old and lonesome, such activities have been forgotten more than a decade and a half.  What went wrong?

[wanton_mee]

5 hours ago, Swimfun said:

真诚清净平等正觉慈悲，看破放下自在随缘念佛。

真诚，真清净，真平等，真正，真觉，真看破。。。。真念佛。‘’真‘’这个开头还得是真功夫呐！

 

我们左右还真都不自在不随缘😁。

 

我还蛮放下别人不了解佛教。他们不懂，但想了解会好好的问。我们懂的就好好的回。别人不好好的问，我会回‘’我不懂’’。🤣

[Swimfun]

1 minute ago, wanton_mee said:

真诚，真清净，真平等，真正，真觉，真看破。。。。真念佛。‘’真‘’这个开头还得是真功夫呐！

 

我们左右还真都不自在不随缘😁。

 

我还蛮放下别人不了解佛教。他们不懂，但想了解会好好的问。我们懂的就好好的回。别人不好好的问，我会回‘’我不懂’’。🤣

菩提本无树，明镜亦非台。本来无一物，何处惹尘埃。

[wanton_mee]

On 6/1/2024 at 1:05 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

His problem is that the only person who can be 100% correct in what the Buddha said is... Buddha himself. He didn't write, all his teachings were preserved by the writings his followers,  the same as is the case with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Look into:

 

https://iep.utm.edu/buddha/

b. Sources

The historical Buddha did not write down any of his teachings, they were passed down orally from generation to generation for at least three centuries. Some scholars have attempted to distinguish the Buddha’s original teachings from those developed by his early disciples. Unfortunately, the contradictory conclusions have led most scholars to be skeptical about the possibility of knowing what the Buddha really taught. This however, does not mean that all Buddhist texts that attribute teachings to the Buddha are equally valuable to reconstruct his thought. The early sūtras in Pāli and other Middle Indo-Aryan languages are historically and linguistically closer to the cultural context of the Buddha than Mahāyāna sūtras in Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Chinese. This does not imply that later translations of the early sūtras in Chinese (there are no Tibetan translations of the early sūtras) are less authentic or useless in reconstructing the philosophy of the Buddha. On the contrary, the comparative study of Pāli and Chinese versions of the early sūtras can help to infer what might have been the Buddha’s position on a number of issues.

...

 

Imagine... 300 years before any of Buddha's teachings were written down.   I draw no pleasure posting this observation, but it should give pause, so not to blame those who post here with guessing and not understanding the subject.  Buddha's philosophy can be understood by everyone, independently of how much details and add-ons have been attached to it.

Oh Buddha didn't intend to have his teaching。to be documented in the first place. 不留，放下？my guessing 一切就是这样，不是我创造的。你们没看到的，我都看到了就说出来给你们知道。

Edited June 2 by wanton_mee

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, wanton_mee said:

Oh Buddha didn't intend to have his teaching。to be documented in the first place. 不留，放下？my guessing 一切就是这样，不是我创造的。你们没看到的，我都看到了就说出来给你们知道。

 

What is the evidence that Buddha didn't intend to have his teachings documented?  WHICH teacher does not want to have his teachings preserved, documented?

 

And it is true that Buddha was not an inventor, but a discoverer.  Like Einstein, who did not invent relativity, but discovered its existence.

[wanton_mee]

I dunno. Thats why i put a question mark

[fenghou]

Previously I shared in this forum that I am having personal struggles with Buddhism. My main reason for the struggle was due to the origin of the teachings and the validity of mahayana scriptures. I found something today which helped me and I would like to share:

 

Summary :

 

Both the earliest recorded Mahayana (Prajnaparamita Sutras)  and Theravada (Pali Canon) scriptures were both written down around 1 BCE, both "schools" of Buddhism have their sacred text written at least 500 YEARS after the historical Buddha's passing.

 

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSYSd4utN/

 

Transcript:

 

Is Mahayana Buddhism a fake religion? According to the vast majority of Buddhists, the answer is no. However, as I've noticed in the comment sections on many of my videos, there is a very loud minority that claims Mahayana is fake, made up, or illegitimate, and that the one true teaching of the Buddha is the quote, Pali Canon.

 

Let's talk about it.

 

First of all, what do all these terms mean?

 

Modern Buddhism can be categorized into two groups. The Mahayana or "Greater Vehicle", who follow a set of discourses by the Buddha called the "Agamas", as well as a collection of teachings we call the Mahayana Sutras.

 

The other group is the Theravada, or Path of Elders. Theravada also follow the Agamas, which they call Nikayas in the Pali language, as well as a collection of monastic commentaries, both recorded in what we call the Pali Canon.

 

The often repeated mantra of anti-Mahayana activists is that : "the Mahayana sutras, including the Agamas recorded in Sanskrit, are falsified texts." They say Mahayana teachings come from regular men, not the Buddha, and therefore lack validity or truth. The Pali Canon, by contrast, in their view, is the closest to the Buddha's original teachings. In their view, it is the unadultered, unchanged, and the most authentic version of what the Buddha taught.

 

Let's call this argument because of its familiarity with the "sola scriptura" debates in Christianity, the Protestant Buddhism argument.

 

Protestant Buddhism, while it sounds very bold and confident, is wrong. Historians and archaeologists have already debunked the Protestant Buddhism view. Discoveries in the Gandhara region of Pakistan show texts like the Prajnaparamita Sutras, a Mahayana scripture that dates to the first century BCE, and discusses Pure Land practice.

 

Now wait. 1st century BCE, that sounds pretty late, right? The historical Buddha Shakyamuni passed on into ultimate nirvana around the 6th century BC. That's a full 500 years after his lifetime. Surely this means the Mahayana are 500 years older than the Pali Canon. Except, the Pali Canon was also written down around the 1st century BCE. Yeah, THE Pali Canon. The most complete and oldest Buddhist Canon we know of. And that is the important part.

 

It is the oldest we know of. At the time of the Buddha, religious teachings were often recorded on impermanent formats like palm leaves or recited by word of mouth. Recitation and memorization preserved the Buddha's teachings from master to student for centuries until they were finally written down by royal decrees from monarchs. There may be older manuscripts to be found. We know as much as the artifacts from around the first century BCE still speak of various early Buddhist schools, like the Dharmaguptaka schools that once existed alongside Theravada and Mahayana until they were absorbed by them.

 

Which goes to another important point. Protestant Buddhism relies on the claim that the Pali Canon was unchanged and is the original teaching of the Buddha. However, we've already shown that it is not the original teaching since it was written down about 500 years later. And also, the Pali Canon was influenced by other Buddhist schools and changed multiple times. In fact, its modern form is only about 200 years old.

dating to reform movements in South Asia, under monarchs that tried to curry favor from European colonial scholars, seeking to find their own El Dorado, or fountain of youth, a missing link that proves Buddhism was a long lost version of Christianity.

 

Instead, they found Theravada, seeking legitimacy from Western powers, creating a mythology that Theravada is an ancient untouched tradition that survives amidst a sea of heretical thought. This is something I can't fit into one video.

 

But please look up the history of Theravada and Sri Lanka to find out that in fact, Theravada co-existed alongside Mahayana, until the Maha Vihara temple, a radical fundamentalist Theravada sect, carried royal favor with the Sri Lankan kings and purged Sri Lanka of Mahayana by extreme violence and persecution.

 

Now unlike Christianity, outside the Protestant Buddhism discourse, Mahayana Buddhists have no problem with Theravada Buddhists. They practice side by side all the time. Both Mahayana and Theravada can be considered schools, not competing sects or churches. This means one who follows Mahayana is like somebody who majors in math. One who follows Theravada is like someone who majors in geometry. A math major and geometry major both attend the same university, study the same materials, and both get a degree, so their education is equally valid as a result. Therefore, Buddhists do not really attempt to criticize or go after other schools.

 

outside the ones they are already following and practicing with. So this false debate about the Pali Canon being the oldest and more legitimate Buddhist set of scriptures is totally out of place in mainstream Buddhism. It is historically inaccurate, since the written Pali Canon came into being around the same time as Mahayana scriptures.

 

The Buddhist teachings were originally recorded by word of mouth, by trust between student and master. And that same trust between student and master is what influences Buddhists today to choose the school of their choice to follow whether it be Zen or Tibetan or Pure Land or Theravada. This is something the Buddha himself taught in Mahayana and Theravada texts.

 

The ability to think critically and ascertain whether to rely on the words of the wise in seeking the path to awakening.

 

I don't usually do these kinds of intense debunking videos, but I've seen enough hatred against Mahayana Buddhists on my videos that I feel the need to call this out. Mahayana is just as legitimate as Theravada.

 

Both teach practices that were provided by the historical Buddha, and both lead us out of the cycles of suffering and toward the liberation of nirvana. If you are concerned about their validity, try them out yourself and see where you go. If you like what you see, keep practicing. And I hope one day we can both attain the Bodhi mind. Thanks for listening and Nāmu mī dhābhūtsu.

 

 

Edited June 10 by fenghou

[shyc]

 

[wanton_mee]

1 hour ago, shyc said:

 

I dun trust these videos 

[shyc]

Just like Buddhism, more for each individual to explore. Not all insights may be applicable but worth to questions and try to understand. Rebirths, reincarnations, debts, repayments, fate of meeting and interactions among others etc. Hopefully to make us a better being while we spend our time on earth. Especially in today context of low tolerance level for one another. That video was probably recommend to me base on my YouTube interaction watching 白冰冰 variety shows. IMHO all things have multiple sides so there is good and bad. Purely how we choose to look at it. 

[am_btm_4_u]

On 6/9/2024 at 9:59 PM, fenghou said:

Previously I shared in this forum that I am having personal struggles with Buddhism. My main reason for the struggle was due to the origin of the teachings and the validity of mahayana scriptures. I found something today which helped me and I would like to share:

 

Summary :

 

Both the earliest recorded Mahayana (Prajnaparamita Sutras)  and Theravada (Pali Canon) scriptures were both written down around 1 BCE, both "schools" of Buddhism have their sacred text written at least 500 YEARS after the historical Buddha's passing.

 

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSYSd4utN/

 

Transcript:

 

Is Mahayana Buddhism a fake religion? According to the vast majority of Buddhists, the answer is no. However, as I've noticed in the comment sections on many of my videos, there is a very loud minority that claims Mahayana is fake, made up, or illegitimate, and that the one true teaching of the Buddha is the quote, Pali Canon.

 

Let's talk about it.

 

First of all, what do all these terms mean?

 

Modern Buddhism can be categorized into two groups. The Mahayana or "Greater Vehicle", who follow a set of discourses by the Buddha called the "Agamas", as well as a collection of teachings we call the Mahayana Sutras.

 

The other group is the Theravada, or Path of Elders. Theravada also follow the Agamas, which they call Nikayas in the Pali language, as well as a collection of monastic commentaries, both recorded in what we call the Pali Canon.

 

The often repeated mantra of anti-Mahayana activists is that : "the Mahayana sutras, including the Agamas recorded in Sanskrit, are falsified texts." They say Mahayana teachings come from regular men, not the Buddha, and therefore lack validity or truth. The Pali Canon, by contrast, in their view, is the closest to the Buddha's original teachings. In their view, it is the unadultered, unchanged, and the most authentic version of what the Buddha taught.

 

Let's call this argument because of its familiarity with the "sola scriptura" debates in Christianity, the Protestant Buddhism argument.

 

Protestant Buddhism, while it sounds very bold and confident, is wrong. Historians and archaeologists have already debunked the Protestant Buddhism view. Discoveries in the Gandhara region of Pakistan show texts like the Prajnaparamita Sutras, a Mahayana scripture that dates to the first century BCE, and discusses Pure Land practice.

 

Now wait. 1st century BCE, that sounds pretty late, right? The historical Buddha Shakyamuni passed on into ultimate nirvana around the 6th century BC. That's a full 500 years after his lifetime. Surely this means the Mahayana are 500 years older than the Pali Canon. Except, the Pali Canon was also written down around the 1st century BCE. Yeah, THE Pali Canon. The most complete and oldest Buddhist Canon we know of. And that is the important part.

 

It is the oldest we know of. At the time of the Buddha, religious teachings were often recorded on impermanent formats like palm leaves or recited by word of mouth. Recitation and memorization preserved the Buddha's teachings from master to student for centuries until they were finally written down by royal decrees from monarchs. There may be older manuscripts to be found. We know as much as the artifacts from around the first century BCE still speak of various early Buddhist schools, like the Dharmaguptaka schools that once existed alongside Theravada and Mahayana until they were absorbed by them.

 

Which goes to another important point. Protestant Buddhism relies on the claim that the Pali Canon was unchanged and is the original teaching of the Buddha. However, we've already shown that it is not the original teaching since it was written down about 500 years later. And also, the Pali Canon was influenced by other Buddhist schools and changed multiple times. In fact, its modern form is only about 200 years old.

dating to reform movements in South Asia, under monarchs that tried to curry favor from European colonial scholars, seeking to find their own El Dorado, or fountain of youth, a missing link that proves Buddhism was a long lost version of Christianity.

 

Instead, they found Theravada, seeking legitimacy from Western powers, creating a mythology that Theravada is an ancient untouched tradition that survives amidst a sea of heretical thought. This is something I can't fit into one video.

 

But please look up the history of Theravada and Sri Lanka to find out that in fact, Theravada co-existed alongside Mahayana, until the Maha Vihara temple, a radical fundamentalist Theravada sect, carried royal favor with the Sri Lankan kings and purged Sri Lanka of Mahayana by extreme violence and persecution.

 

Now unlike Christianity, outside the Protestant Buddhism discourse, Mahayana Buddhists have no problem with Theravada Buddhists. They practice side by side all the time. Both Mahayana and Theravada can be considered schools, not competing sects or churches. This means one who follows Mahayana is like somebody who majors in math. One who follows Theravada is like someone who majors in geometry. A math major and geometry major both attend the same university, study the same materials, and both get a degree, so their education is equally valid as a result. Therefore, Buddhists do not really attempt to criticize or go after other schools.

 

outside the ones they are already following and practicing with. So this false debate about the Pali Canon being the oldest and more legitimate Buddhist set of scriptures is totally out of place in mainstream Buddhism. It is historically inaccurate, since the written Pali Canon came into being around the same time as Mahayana scriptures.

 

The Buddhist teachings were originally recorded by word of mouth, by trust between student and master. And that same trust between student and master is what influences Buddhists today to choose the school of their choice to follow whether it be Zen or Tibetan or Pure Land or Theravada. This is something the Buddha himself taught in Mahayana and Theravada texts.

 

The ability to think critically and ascertain whether to rely on the words of the wise in seeking the path to awakening.

 

I don't usually do these kinds of intense debunking videos, but I've seen enough hatred against Mahayana Buddhists on my videos that I feel the need to call this out. Mahayana is just as legitimate as Theravada.

 

Both teach practices that were provided by the historical Buddha, and both lead us out of the cycles of suffering and toward the liberation of nirvana. If you are concerned about their validity, try them out yourself and see where you go. If you like what you see, keep practicing. And I hope one day we can both attain the Bodhi mind. Thanks for listening and Nāmu mī dhābhūtsu.

 

 

 

What about this new age group ?

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:10 AM by am_btm_4_u

[Steve5380]

11 hours ago, am_btm_4_u said:

 

What about this new age group ?

 

 

It can be nice to be gregarious.  However, any religion and philosophy can be practiced in a group of ONE:  oneself. We should refer to the ORIGINAL SOURCE of the religion, philosophy, like the general principles of the teachings attributed to Buddha, to Christ,  process them in our mind,  and practice them at all times and circumstances.

[Guest Me Think]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

It can be nice to be gregarious.  However, any religion and philosophy can be practiced in a group of ONE:  oneself. We should refer to the ORIGINAL SOURCE of the religion, philosophy, like the general principles of the teachings attributed to Buddha, to Christ,  process them in our mind,  and practice them at all times and circumstances.

Do you know that Buddhism has prepared people to become good Christian?  Christian who hasn't taste the teaching of Buddhism is not powerful enough to be called a good Christian. 

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Guest Me Think said:

Do you know that Buddhism has prepared people to become good Christian?  Christian who hasn't taste the teaching of Buddhism is not powerful enough to be called a good Christian. 

 

I think You Think correctly.   Buddhism and Christianity complement each other, and the result is the best. Buddhism can teach Christians that the theory of an almighty divinity, or a divine Trinity, is not a moral necessity.  This appeals to agnostics who seek a good philosophy of life. 

[Guest Mind Ur word]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Buddhism can teach Christians that the theory of an almighty divinity, or a divine Trinity, is not a moral necessity.  

Buddhism don't judge what is moral necessity.  Buddhism believe that morality is subjective if it brings about goodness to humanity and causes no harm to anybody.  However based on your arguement it seems that u didn't quite fully understand the nuance of Buddhism. It is not philosophy, it is a state of mindfulness with your words and thoughts.  

[Swimfun]

 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Swimfun said:

 

 

It is very possible that Buddha would frown over your posts in this forum that can be understood only by the Chinese.  This video you posted does not have any translated subtitles, therefore much of the BW readership won't be able to understand it.

 

It is not conceivable that Buddha wanted to limit his teachings to any specific ethnic group.  So his disciples, his followers, should see that his teachings don't get restricted to the Chinese or any other group.

 

Jesus Christ was a Jew,  but his followers soon realized that he did not preach for Jews alone but for all of humanity. And so the Catholic Church embraced catholicity,  which means inclusiveness, universality.  

 

It will be highly appreciated if your posts can be read by everybody here.