Buddhism Discussion

[Jinyansg]

庄周梦蝶

[Steve5380]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:52 PM, TT2880 said:

If someone hits us with a stick, are we angry at the stick or at the person hitting us? This question might seem absurd, but breaking it down logically, it is the stick that directly caused us pain. However, we know the stick is not in control, and so we do not direct our anger at the stick. Like us, the stick is a victim in this scenario. We likewise don’t blame the hand wielding the stick. Rather, we look to the person controlling the hand. This seems logical to us. Yet the person himself or herself was overpowered by anger and driven to act by their rage. Following this line of reflection, logic should lead us to recognize that the locus of power is not the person but the emotional forces that have taken control from within. The person attacking us fell under the control of their anger, just as has surely happened to us on occasion. 

 

What this shows is that we can lose our freedom in many ways. Even when we have external freedoms like freedom of speech, freedom of movement, and the freedom to gather, we may still be mentally or emotionally overpowered. We could still be controlled by disturbing emotions whose orders we are executing. This lack of inner freedom curtails our ability to feel content, to make wise choices, and to make the most of our external freedoms.

 

For this reason, authentic freedom must include freedom from the control of destructive emotional forces. In this area, we gain greater freedom by actively training ourselves. Achieving inner freedom entails hard work, but it can be consciously cultivated. Here, again, our intelligence is a powerful tool. We can apply it with wisdom and patience to understand how our destructive emotions work so that we can gradually liberate ourselves from their dictates.

~ The 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje
 

 

You quoted a very interesting and fundamental philosophical issue. Where lies the RESPONSIBILITY? 

 

About a decade ago, Dr. Anthony Cashmore, a professor in the Department of Biology at the University of Pennsylvania, wrote a paper that is transcendental:  "The Lucretian Swerve, the biological basis of human behavior and the criminal system" 

 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0915161107

 

This issue has to be intimately related to Buddhism.  What is KARMA?   Why is there a spiritual essence that builds up with judgements of our actions that are OUR RESPONSIBILITY?   Where does our responsibility come from?  As babies, we pooped in our diapers and puked on our mother but it wasn't our fault.  Where does "our fault" come from today as adults?

 

To answer these questions,  Dr. Cashmore did a research into this nebulous, ethereal, unsubstantiated concept of FREE WILL.  He tried to answer this question not from a philosophical, religions point of view but with the tools of biology. He goes back from the Greek Epicureans through the dualism of Descartes into modern quantum mechanics, Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty.   His conclusion is that "the laws of nature do not accommodate the concept of FREE WILL".

 

This is very important for us gays,  not so much the Buddhists as we Christians, because in Christianity,  God gave us all free will,  and it is through free will that we are homosexuals and act like such.  Therefore we SIN!

 

FREE WILL is essential for the existence of SIN.   And in the same vein, Dr. Cashmore concludes that:

 

FREE WILL is essential to justify a criminal system.   At least that part that deals with punishment.

 

[Steve5380]

7 hours ago, Since u r here said:

 

what exactly is compassion?

 

“True Buddhist compassion has nothing to do with sentimentality or mere pity. This is because sentimentality or mere pity cannot help the other person achieve victory in life; it cannot truly relieve suffering and impart joy.” #genuine compassion may sometimes appear stern or contradictory. #compassion and wisdom often goes hand in hand … 

 

 

You are right.

 

Buddhism is a philosophical teaching that intends to be a cognitive help to humans, and by extension, to living creatures.  One could argue that the motivation to impart such a help could have originated out of empathy, pity for the fellow men.  It is too late to look into the head of the Buddha to be sure. It is enough to wonder how he arrived at his principles himself.

[fab]

6 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You are right.

 

Buddhism is a philosophical teaching that intends to be a cognitive help to humans, and by extension, to living creatures.  One could argue that the motivation to impart such a help could have originated out of empathy, pity for the fellow men.  It is too late to look into the head of the Buddha to be sure. It is enough to wonder how he arrived at his principles himself.

 

He is the enlightened one who had vowed to return to this Saha world to help his fellow sentient beings to get out of suffering of samsara. 

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, fab said:

 

He is the enlightened one who had vowed to return to this Saha world to help his fellow sentient beings to get out of suffering of samsara. 

 

Has The Buddha kept his word and returned to Saha?   This must not have been very difficult,  because as soon as he stepped out of Nirvana he was... in Saha!

[Guest James]

Is wat ananda at bkt merah a proper thai theravada buddhist temple that does not practise secretly black magic, worship kumatong baby spirits, ghosts spirits, etc?  The average thai fusion type got these. Any idea. 

[Guest Passerby]

 

[Steve5380]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:58 AM, Guest James said:

Is wat ananda at bkt merah a proper thai theravada buddhist temple that does not practise secretly black magic, worship kumatong baby spirits, ghosts spirits, etc?  The average thai fusion type got these. Any idea. 

 

Do you need a TEMPLE to practice Buddhism?  Can you become an expert in Buddhism with the information available online?   If so,  why not practice it in your own privacy?  In any case, the dead Buddha is unreachable already.  So why put yourself in the hands of his followers, with unknown qualifications?  Study yourself,  work on yourself,  without any need to smell incense. 

[Guest The Awakened One]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:39 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Do you need a TEMPLE to practice Buddhism?  Can you become an expert in Buddhism with the information available online?   If so,  why not practice it in your own privacy?  In any case, the dead Buddha is unreachable already.  So why put yourself in the hands of his followers, with unknown qualifications?  Study yourself,  work on yourself,  without any need to smell incense. 

In buddhism, there is no right or wrong, shape nor forms.  Your questions became irrelevant.  

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, Guest The Awakened One said:

In buddhism, there is no right or wrong, shape nor forms.  Your questions became irrelevant.  

 

Thank you for answering my question.  One does not need a temple to practice Buddhism.

[Guest To-Do List]

46 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Thank you for answering my question.  One does not need a temple to practice Buddhism.

I can teach you Buddhism, but first, you must burn incense.  It is basic respect to Buddha the ambience must be purified and smell good before teaching begins.  

[Steve5380]

13 minutes ago, Guest To-Do List said:

I can teach you Buddhism, but first, you must burn incense.  It is basic respect to Buddha the ambience must be purified and smell good before teaching begins.  

 

Not everyone finds the smell of incense "good".  Incense is also used in Catholic services, it is not exclusive of Buddhism, and there is little reason to see it as an element of respect.   You think that Buddha will be angry if you don't burn incense?

[Guest Baby step]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Not everyone finds the smell of incense "good".  

You allergic to the smell of incense?  I find it quite therapeutic.  You can choose the fragrance you like without the need to follow those used in your church.  If simple discipline of burning incense is a chores then how are u going to obey the teaching of Buddhism?

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, Guest Baby step said:

You allergic to the smell of incense?  I find it quite therapeutic.  You can choose the fragrance you like without the need to follow those used in your church.  If simple discipline of burning incense is a chores then how are u going to obey the teaching of Buddhism?

 

I am not allergic to incense.  It just reminds me of the Catholic ceremonies of my childhood I had to put up with.  I don't need to obey any teachings,  but I am willing to follow Buddhist teachings that are transcendental and positive.

[wanton_mee]

10 hours ago, Guest To-Do List said:

I can teach you Buddhism, but first, you must burn incense.  It is basic respect to Buddha the ambience must be purified and smell good before teaching begins.  

端饭给父母比烧香拜佛来得更好

[Guest The historical buddha]

Ready & verify history. It is misleading to just read/ hear from a particular type/ sch/ sect/ tradition/ denomination. 

 

During buddha's lifetime, there was no buddha statue, pray with incense, pen, paper, scriptures. He taught verbally. So after his demise and nibbana/ nirvana, gradually monks & laypeople imterprer and do things differently, adding and deleting concepts/ practices. 

 

Clarified with theravada and mahayana venerables, they said not necessary to have statue or incense. But must do good & train the mind consistently.

 

Didn't ask the tantric/ vajrayana lamas. They fuse/ combine with some hinduism and magaical stuff, so they may have different views.

 

Jesus taught orally too. The bible was composed by his apostles and followers later. And the final bible took many many yrs. Lots of different interpretations and denominations.

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, wanton_mee said:

端饭给父母比烧香拜佛来得更好

 

Yes, the same as giving money to the poor and needy.  Surely The Buddha, Christ and some others would not care much for worship and incense.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Guest The historical buddha said:

Ready & verify history. It is misleading to just read/ hear from a particular type/ sch/ sect/ tradition/ denomination. 

 

During buddha's lifetime, there was no buddha statue, pray with incense, pen, paper, scriptures. He taught verbally. So after his demise and nibbana/ nirvana, gradually monks & laypeople imterprer and do things differently, adding and deleting concepts/ practices. 

 

Clarified with theravada and mahayana venerables, they said not necessary to have statue or incense. But must do good & train the mind consistently.

 

Didn't ask the tantric/ vajrayana lamas. They fuse/ combine with some hinduism and magaical stuff, so they may have different views.

 

Jesus taught orally too. The bible was composed by his apostles and followers later. And the final bible took many many yrs. Lots of different interpretations and denominations.

 

I fully agree with your ideas.  All these Sages had given up materialism.  And they surely didn't have any desire to be worshipped.   They had one mission:  to give from them to humanity.

[Guest Everywhere]

Buddhism is everywhere.  It can take the form of Bible Gospel, the practising life of Orhodox monk, your neighbour next door busy with her gardening,  the maid bringing out her owner's dogs to poo,  hawkers measuring the recipe before lunch time started,  and me...sitting on a toilet bow, queitly and patientlyl getting ready to...purge?

[Guest Guest historical buddha]

3 hours ago, Guest Everywhere said:

Buddhism is everywhere.  It can take the form of Bible Gospel, the practising life of Orhodox monk, your neighbour next door busy with her gardening,  the maid bringing out her owner's dogs to poo,  hawkers measuring the recipe before lunch time started,  and me...sitting on a toilet bow, queitly and patientlyl getting ready to...purge?

That is Zen. I think you are talking from Zen (Chinese Zen / Japanese Zen) philosophical pt of view, which is profound. Not many people are ready for profound philosophy yet, though it may have merits/ goodness. Hence, simplier versions/ types have evolved.

[fab]

Buddhists only need to follow 8 right paths. 

[D.0284]

like all religions, buddhism isn't spared from political manipulation. many of the current practices are directly or indirectly influenced by the disciples who are directly or indirectly being politically controlled.

therefore, one should try to understand buddhism from that of buddha personality and his viewpoint instead of that of many generation of distortion to the religion.

i take for example, there was a sutra which mention of the buddha palace in heaven to be laid with gold and gemstone. but buddha himself did not live in a palace after he gotten the enlightenment. the sutra in this case is just a writing to appeal to the mass using the concept of greed.

i have heard of monk who claim that celebration of birthday as being sinful. but buddha will not be so petty as to restrict celebration if it is a healthy activity. therefore, i strongly believe that buddhism is being distorted to a point where it is no longer buddhism. it is a religion of idol worship to monks and religion teachers who used buddhism as disguise.

[Guest 小绵羊]

12 hours ago, fab said:

Buddhists only need to follow 8 right paths. 

So easy meh?  You may have followed strictly the 8 path right but that is only when you are alone, within the temple, homely and not involved in society affairs.   Once you stepped out of your home and your neighbours laundry blocked your way or someone nearly knocked you accidentally or you were shortchanged by eating some horrid and pricey meal, or a bird drop a pile of poo on your head or..MRT broke down on your urgent appointment or...the toiles were all fully occupied when you on the verge of shitting out....etc.   You won't curse and swear meh?  You will suddently display your kindness and generosity under those circumstances meh?  You will greet your enemy with sincere deepest love meh?  You will donate $100 to the tissue paper sellers instead of just paying $1 to get 10 packs of tissue meh?  You will stay focus and concentrate throughout the day meh?  You won't eat your favourite Bah Chor Mee or thick prawn paste Rojak Meh? Meh? Meh???

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, D.0284 said:

like all religions, buddhism isn't spared from political manipulation. many of the current practices are directly or indirectly influenced by the disciples who are directly or indirectly being politically controlled.

therefore, one should try to understand buddhism from that of buddha personality and his viewpoint instead of that of many generation of distortion to the religion.

i take for example, there was a sutra which mention of the buddha palace in heaven to be laid with gold and gemstone. but buddha himself did not live in a palace after he gotten the enlightenment. the sutra in this case is just a writing to appeal to the mass using the concept of greed.

i have heard of monk who claim that celebration of birthday as being sinful. but buddha will not be so petty as to restrict celebration if it is a healthy activity. therefore, i strongly believe that buddhism is being distorted to a point where it is no longer buddhism. it is a religion of idol worship to monks and religion teachers who used buddhism as disguise.

 

Buddhism as an organized religion is exactly the same as other organized religions.  What you describe is typical of Christianity,  not only of the Catholic Church,  which was so corrupted that Martin Luther's protests lead to the Protestantism, but also of the many non affiliated "churches" whose pastors preach "the gospel of prosperity". 

[Steve5380]

13 hours ago, fab said:

Buddhists only need to follow 8 right paths. 

 

You have to practice the 8 paths one after the other?   Because in practice,  one can only follow one path at a time.  We cannot simultaneously go in 8 different directions!   And what is the need for 8 paths,  when the ONE path could go to all the places the 8 paths go?

[Guest My Honest View]

Just now, Steve5380 said:

 

You have to practice the 8 paths one after the other?   Because in practice,  one can only follow one path at a time.  We cannot simultaneously go in 8 different directions!   And what is the need for 8 paths,  when the ONE path could go to all the places the 8 paths go?

Think of 8 paths as your limbs (externally) or your organs (Internally).  The worked collectively and no single item should try to deviate itself from the others.  Just like 10 commandments, you fail one you fail all.  You can't pick and choose.   As such, no single religion is easy to follow, but talk is easier than action.   Sorry folks if you are offended. 

[D.0284]

there isn't a 8 path to follow. when buddha himself suffered from food poisoning he realize that some of the teachings is mistaken. so while he was ill, he told his disciple that all is nothingness.

however, it is too late for him to elaborate on his final teachings. many of his disciple could not understand and tried to guess. i tried to understand his final teachings which seems to supersede all previous teachings. there is a conclusion that it is nothingness that superseded all his teachings. it was in sikhs that the concept is elaborated. but then again. it is not totally explained in any religion today.

for me, buddhism is ahead of its time when buddha found the religion, with it concept being deeper than most religion of that era.

[Guest Was it not?]

Religion is could be an old school texbook for learning.  It placed a strong emphasis on doing good deeds and being kind, and it aimed to inspire hope in humanity on this abandoned planet circling the cosmos with no apparent future.   The "educational" book might just be obsolete now that we have laws and regulations in place to regulate human behavior because they no longer reflect the progress of time.  Even still, it serves as a ray of optimism when everything turns gloomy once more.  As a result, it still has sentimental or spiritual worth, much as how some individuals still own antique or vintage items to make themselves feel cozy and warm. 

[Steve5380]

6 hours ago, D.0284 said:

for me, buddhism is ahead of its time when buddha found the religion, with it concept being deeper than most religion of that era.

 

 

The same is true with Christianity.  Jesus was far ahead of his era, we don't know how many of his disciples and others around him fully understood his message.  We can only hope that the writers of the Gospels were sincere.  But today society has evolved,  we probably are at least as intelligent as the people who started the organized religions,  and we are entitled to make our own conclusions from the messages left by Buddha and Jesus.

[Mojohomme]

11 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The same is true with Christianity.  Jesus was far ahead of his era, we don't know how many of his disciples and others around him fully understood his message.  We can only hope that the writers of the Gospels were sincere.  But today society has evolved,  we probably are at least as intelligent as the people who started the organized religions,  and we are entitled to make our own conclusions from the messages left by Buddha and Jesus.

BBC once made a documentary suggesting that jesus was a buddhist monk.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Mojohomme said:

BBC once made a documentary suggesting that jesus was a buddhist monk.

 

I also think that the philosophies of Buddha and Jesus have much in common.  The differences are due to the societies they came from,  Hinduism in the case of Buddha, Judaism in the case of Jesus.   

[D.0284]

18 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I also think that the philosophies of Buddha and Jesus have much in common.  The differences are due to the societies they came from,  Hinduism in the case of Buddha, Judaism in the case of Jesus.   

 

i believe one should have an openmind

[koumin]

I remember someone said, 
"In this world and many others, there are 2 types of Buddhists... one practices with faith and the other practices with knowledge." So which one are you? 😉

[D.0284]

24 minutes ago, koumin said:

I remember someone said, 
"In this world and many others, there are 2 types of Buddhists... one practices with faith and the other practices with knowledge." So which one are you? 😉

there should be a balance between these 2 just like the shadow and light.

[Guest Lotus]

金刚经

佛告须菩提：「诸菩萨摩诃萨，应如是降伏其心：所有一切众生之类─若卵生、若胎生、若湿生、若化生；若有色、若无色；若有想、若无想；若非有想非无想，我皆令入无余涅槃而灭度之。如是灭度无量无数无边众生，实无众生得灭度者。何以故？须菩提！若菩萨有我相、人相、众生相、寿者相，即非菩萨。」

[Guest Lotus]

金刚经

 

若以色见我、以音声求我，是人行邪道，不能见如来。

[Guest Lotus]

金刚经

 

凡一切相，皆是虚妄。若见诸相非相，即见如来。

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, koumin said:

I remember someone said, 
"In this world and many others, there are 2 types of Buddhists... one practices with faith and the other practices with knowledge." So which one are you? 😉

 

I practice the directions of my heart, without faith and without knowledge.  

 

I doubt that there is any knowledge of religion.  What exists is EDUCATION.  I have plenty of education in Catholicism, which I got from the good priests and teachers in my Catholic schools. 

 

If real knowledge of religion would exist, there would not be any need for faith.  And when the religious education of a person combines with some knowledge of the world,  faith disappears.  Because of the knowledge that all organized religions are different,  therefore their information is incompatible and not trustworthy.

[Startup]

8 hours ago, koumin said:

I remember someone said, 
"In this world and many others, there are 2 types of Buddhists... one practices with faith and the other practices with knowledge." So which one are you? 😉

It shouldn't be an either-or thing. 

 

There are two types of knowledge, the absolute and complete knowledge versus the knowledge that one possesses. Where one's knowledge ends and the infinite knowledge begins, it takes a leap of faith to connect both types of knowledge.

 

Can one expand his knowledge to become the universal knowledge? How does one do that?

 

The human mind usually limits itself with the sense of duality.

[Mojohomme]

in my opinion, there are differences between enlightenment, knowledge and faith. 

i seek enlightenment and knowledge more than faith. one could never gain much enlightenment when one is too obsess with faith, as faith can sometimes restrict one's ability to think beyond the teachings which are largely based on experience of others. enlightenment usually starts from self discovery and spread to a greater understanding toward achieving the inner peace, harmony and a greater sense of joy.

the above is my personal opinion, it does not necessary applies to all. 

[koumin]

8 hours ago, Startup said:

It shouldn't be an either-or thing. 

 

There are two types of knowledge, the absolute and complete knowledge versus the knowledge that one possesses. Where one's knowledge ends and the infinite knowledge begins, it takes a leap of faith to connect both types of knowledge.

 

Can one expand his knowledge to become the universal knowledge? How does one do that?

 

The human mind usually limits itself with the sense of duality.

Well put 😊

[koumin]

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I practice the directions of my heart, without faith and without knowledge.  

 

I doubt that there is any knowledge of religion.  What exists is EDUCATION.  I have plenty of education in Catholicism, which I got from the good priests and teachers in my Catholic schools. 

 

If real knowledge of religion would exist, there would not be any need for faith.  And when the religious education of a person combines with some knowledge of the world,  faith disappears.  Because of the knowledge that all organized religions are different,  therefore their information is incompatible and not trustworthy.

Go with the heart 😉 sounds fun

[koumin]

15 hours ago, Guest Lotus said:

金刚经

佛告须菩提：「诸菩萨摩诃萨，应如是降伏其心：所有一切众生之类─若卵生、若胎生、若湿生、若化生；若有色、若无色；若有想、若无想；若非有想非无想，我皆令入无余涅槃而灭度之。如是灭度无量无数无边众生，实无众生得灭度者。何以故？须菩提！若菩萨有我相、人相、众生相、寿者相，即非菩萨。」

😊 那您也这么认为吗？您也遇见菩萨而非菩萨吗？

[koumin]

13 hours ago, Guest Lotus said:

金刚经

 

若以色见我、以音声求我，是人行邪道，不能见如来。

若无声色来修又如何了凡尘，度生死，涅盘呢？

[koumin]

13 hours ago, Guest Lotus said:

金刚经

 

凡一切相，皆是虚妄。若见诸相非相，即见如来。

那您见如来否？

[Mojohomme]

dun think so much about all the sutra. think about how to get closer to buddha. 

[Guest Wiseman]

19 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I practice the directions of my heart, and without knowledge.  

 

Which explains why you always allow your emotion to get ahead of your brain.  I blame it entirely on your western media and politicians to use human weakest link - the heart - to stir hates for votes. Human heart should be the last thing to trust over intelligence that require a lot of wisdom. 

[Guest Lotus]

20 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I practice the directions of my heart, without faith and without knowledge.  

 

I doubt that there is any knowledge of religion.  What exists is EDUCATION.  I have plenty of education in Catholicism, which I got from the good priests and teachers in my Catholic schools. 

 

If real knowledge of religion would exist, there would not be any need for faith.  And when the religious education of a person combines with some knowledge of the world,  faith disappears.  Because of the knowledge that all organized religions are different,  therefore their information is incompatible and not trustworthy.

佛不度无缘人，

不度无愿人，

不度不信之人。

[Guest Lotus]

金刚经

 

一切有为法，如梦泡影，如露亦如电，应作如观。

[Guest Lotus]

9 hours ago, koumin said:

那您见如来否？

如来非相.

 

如来 = enlightenment