Quitting Bw

[Guest artemov]

In the great traditions of Buaya and TopChinese, I am announcing my withdrawal from BW.

It has been a good 1 year, and I have made quite a few friends. Thank you all.

Frankly I think the quality of this forum has gone from bad to worse, these days it is filled mostly with inane threads on sex, more sex and an assortment of cringe-worthy nonsense.

But worse of all, we have moderators (not all, only a couple) who abuse their powers, show distinct bias and favouritism, and even log in as anonymous guests to participate in the ensuing melee.

The internet is supposed to be a place of free speech, a place with rules but also allows differing views and ideas. Yet this particular forum is run like a personal fiefdom, where rules are unclear and moderators play by their own rules and run the place according to their own whims, fancies and even insecurities. They get into personal squabbles and instead of defending themselves like a real man, abuse their moderators powers, misuse privileged information and censor replies. Shame on you.

My gratitude to moderators like Ikutube, who rise above partisanship and give a semblance of respectibility to this forum, a trait it sorely lacks.

This will be my last post here. Good riddance.

[citiguy]

“Blowing Wind is a Discussion Forum for Mature Singapore Gay Man.”

That’s what we see before we log into the forum.

Is this really a forum for public discussion? Or has it turned into a personal forum/blog where everything is dictated by one moderator? If he dislikes your comments, he deletes it. He locks the thread. He bars you from coming into the forum.

If you look back at those thread that were locked and those who were banned from the forum by him, you can tell that they did not touch on the OB markers. Even if they did, were they given warnings? He uses the excuse that some forumers are rude. Which rule states that forumers cannot be rude? Did he set himself a good example? Worse of all, he has begun to delete innocent posts just because he doesn’t like the posters and start spinning tales to justify his reason for removing the posters. Is this an abuse of authority?

Some moderators are trying hard to build close rapport among the members. However, one of them is trying to burn bridges.

Too bad. I don’t think the situation will change. So, for people like me and the few others who cannot tolerate this kind of abuse, I guess the only way out is to leave the forum. Eventually, who will be left behind in the forum? People who conform to his idea.

Lungker – Take a leaf from Gachi’s book. He may not be young but his mindset moves along with the fast changing environment. He knows he is handling different generations of forumers and so the old style may not work and may not apply to all. You want to use your old style of bringing things under control with an iron fist, you would only be left behind as you have been proven once before in your real life. Your old mindset doesn’t work in this new environment. Take off your straw hat and let your mind cool down so as to think better.

[Lungker]

To those who want to leave, all I can say is Don't let the door hit your backside when you leave.

Go and keep your promise not to look back.

[Lungker]

“Blowing Wind is a Discussion Forum for Mature Singapore Gay Man.”

That’s what we see before we log into the forum.

Is this really a forum for public discussion? Or has it turned into a personal forum/blog where everything is dictated by one moderator? If he dislikes your comments, he deletes it. He locks the thread. He bars you from coming into the forum.

If you look back at those thread that were locked and those who were banned from the forum by him, you can tell that they did not touch on the OB markers. Even if they did, were they given warnings? He uses the excuse that some forumers are rude. Which rule states that forumers cannot be rude? Did he set himself a good example? Worse of all, he has begun to delete innocent posts just because he doesn’t like the posters and start spinning tales to justify his reason for removing the posters. Is this an abuse of authority?

Some moderators are trying hard to build close rapport among the members. However, one of them is trying to burn bridges.

Too bad. I don’t think the situation will change. So, for people like me and the few others who cannot tolerate this kind of abuse, I guess the only way out is to leave the forum. Eventually, who will be left behind in the forum? People who conform to his idea.

Lungker – Take a leaf from Gachi’s book. He may not be young but his mindset moves along with the fast changing environment. He knows he is handling different generations of forumers and so the old style may not work and may not apply to all. You want to use your old style of bringing things under control with an iron fist, you would only be left behind as you have been proven once before in your real life. Your old mindset doesn’t work in this new environment. Take off your straw hat and let your mind cool down so as to think better.

Like I painfully took time to explain to some people in my PMs to them, this is not a place where every kind of discussion will be tolerated.

People do not understand we are probably being watched by "big brother." BW the man, told us as much when he first recruited Hendry, OralB and I as the first batch of mods/admins.

Certain discussions I will have to curtail because it will bring unwarranted attention to this forum. We operate in Singapore. The mods here all have careers and lives that they treasure. Who is going to volunteer when the authorities decide to call us up for an interview if the discussions get out of hand? Artemov? You Citiguy? Or that guest Gamma? Who is going to stand up for the forum if we are called up for a real "coffee and tea" interview?

BW is the only forum in Singapore, someone please prove me wrong, where detailed descriptive gay sex acts and where it happened are discussed. Look at the threads in the main bulletin board. Nothing in Fridae and Trevvy, or any other forums in Singapore even come close. If the govt controlled media decide to "out" our forum, anyone here volunteer to be our spokesman? Raise your hand. Come on, lets see a raise of hands.

Freedom of expression comes with responsibilities. Everyone wants freedom of expression, but who wants the responsibilities?

BW survived for 10 years because we know and respect we live and operate in a non perfect environment in Singapore. We have to be extra vigilant not to antagonise certain institutions because we know because of the topics we discussed here (graphic sexual ones), we are a very soft target for the government and the media. Why even make ourselves more "prominent" by discussing politics, race and religion?

Guests or even registered members who are unhappy with the government for one reason or another have my good wishes to set up their own blog/forum to express their opinions. You are even welcome to promote your website here. You can put yourself at risk to be called up but you are not welcome to put us here at risk. Fair enough?

I offer no apologies for doing what I did because I know I am trying to protect the forum and its volunteers of mods/admins. How many of my critics here actually thought of that when you keep harping on "freedom of expressions." How many of you ever thought of how your sensitive comments can endanger this forum's existence?

I read a comment from the NYTimes, "Civil disobedience is brave, posting your comments anonymously is not." And that is how I feel too. I will salute you if you are really brave. Prove to all of us you are. If you can't then don't blame us for not being brave also.

[bearlover]

...

BW survived for 10 years because we know and respect we live and operate in a non perfect environment in Singapore. We have to be extra vigilant not to antagonise certain institutions because we know because of the topics we discussed here (graphic sexual ones), we are a very soft target for the government and the media. Why even make ourselves more "prominent" by discussing politics, race and religion?

Guests or even registered members who are unhappy with the government for one reason or another have my good wishes to set up their own blog/forum to express their opinions. You are even welcome to promote your website here. You can put yourself at risk to be called up but you are not welcome to put us here at risk. Fair enough?

I offer no apologies for doing what I did because I know I am trying to protect the forum and its volunteers of mods/admins. How many of my critics here actually thought of that when you keep harping on "freedom of expressions." How many of you ever thought of how your sensitive comments can endanger this forum's existence?

I read a comment from the NYTimes, "Civil disobedience is brave, posting your comments anonymously is not." And that is how I feel too. I will salute you if you are really brave. Prove to all of us you are. If you can't then don't blame us for not being brave also.

Lungker writes very eloquently on the subject of posting with responsibility. The surest way to ensure reponsible postings is accountability. Yet, for all that is said, the biggest irony is that anonymous postings are allowed and even encouraged in BW. How does one reconcile what was said above with what is really happening? So instead of deleting anonymous posts that mods may deem offensive, only registered users should be allowed to post. I'm sure people will think twice before pressing the "add reply" button...

[ahseng]

everybody has their own standard of morals and what is acceptable.

I believe in living within the boundaries, within the tolerable law.

I do not believe in pushing the limits.

I believe 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. However slow, it is still progress.

This forum is nice, a place to voice, but it would be bad should it be closed by law or exposed in the media explicitly.

cheers

[deceptiveeyes.deceivingminds]

Lungker and all mods,

You have done a great job keeping the forum under checks.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

We should celebrate!

[Lungker]

Lungker writes very eloquently on the subject of posting with responsibility. The surest way to ensure reponsible postings is accountability. Yet, for all that is said, the biggest irony is that anonymous postings are allowed and even encouraged in BW. How does one reconcile what was said above with what is really happening? So instead of deleting anonymous posts that mods may deem offensive, only registered users should be allowed to post. I'm sure people will think twice before pressing the "add reply" button...

I agree with you BL. I truly do.

Having said that, historically, since the first day BW started about 11 years ago, we had allowed guests to post.

It had become a tradition of sort, and at this time and age, it is actually an unwise tradition. Spams and posts from anonymous servers can be used to fill this forum with all kind of potentially libellous and dangerous comments. Such posts are very hard if not impossible to trace.

Forumer, the last host we were on, suddenly stop all guests postings to stop spams and irresponsible postings. In fact, it is extremely difficult to find a forum nowadays that allowed guests postings. And yet we persist. Why?

We know for a fact it is often inconvenient for some readers to register as members. We also like a majority of guests' postings because they are often valuable and informative. Without guests' postings, this place will become more dull. And the final answer is we like the tradition. This tradition was started by BW the man, and until he wants to disallow guests' postings, we are going to let it stay.

everybody has their own standard of morals and what is acceptable.

I believe in living within the boundaries, within the tolerable law.

I do not believe in pushing the limits.

I believe 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. However slow, it is still progress.

This forum is nice, a place to voice, but it would be bad should it be closed by law or exposed in the media explicitly.

cheers

Thanks for the understanding. Really.

But it does pains me how some people cannot and will not understand the risks we are taking. The government had not taken any action against any gay websites other than sgboy some years back for having dirty pics and promoting male prostitution. That does not mean they won't or can't. If we antagonise them in any way, we are really at their mercy.

Let me be brutally honest with you guys. If we are called up, we will provide them 100% co-operation and if asked to reveal the IP addresses of the posters, we will do so. We will also provide them all the help they need to trace the poster/s they are seeking including any personal particulars or information.

When I delete potential troublesome posts, I can tell you, it is often for their own good. Let me quote you this statement from our guidelines:

BW does not exercise editorial control over any posting or private message and hence cannot be held liable for any comments made by registered or non-registered users of this board. As much as possible, we will attempt to protect posters if they post something libellous or if they inadvertently broke the laws, by removing or editing the posting as soon as possible. However readers are reminded they are responsible for their own speech and comments. Just stay away from commenting about political issues, races, religions and making pointed references about people and we should be all right.

It may not seemed so, but when a post is removed, very often it is both for the good of this forum and also the good of the poster.

I am actually tempted to quote to you guys a series of private posts from BW the man himself about this place being watched by "other people." I won't unless he gives me the green light. This is from a man who started this forum 11 years ago and managed this place himself until 2005 when the first batch of mods/admin were appointed.

If you are to read his warnings, it will send a chill down your back.

Now, have things changed? Seriously, I do not know. I do know that no one, among the mods, want to antagonise the authorities and be hauled up for questioning.

One last thing. Among the current full mods/admins, I have the least to lose. I am fairly "out" and I am retired. But what about the rest? Spare a thought for them. They are still young and some of them very closeted. All of them also have thriving careers they are building upon. Why put them at risk? Ask yourself that the next time you question why certain posts are deleted.

[TOPaw]

To Lunker:

My very bad england la hope u understand cos i know u are english cum GP cum social studies teacher.

I tell u,

Lao lang geh ( old man) , Gao dio si gao liao ( enough is enough), Zoh min jia kua hoh dio siu ( do thing see ok can retreat), mai ka guey hoon ( dun too much).

Limbeh guan lu simi moderator ( your father me dun care u wad moderator), wa eh heng si ai gong dio gong ( my pattern is wan to say then say.)

Jit gu wehy sang hor lu ( this few word give u ), hor lu ping an hor u huat dua zai ( wish u prosperous and safety)

If I offend u, come down BW dinner, I sit there wait u.

=)

TOPaw a.k.a. Nel

[nicefatboy]

I think the moderators have done a great job. They are the unpaid, unsung heroes of the forum.

Some members have had run-ins with a few mods but then that is life. Who gets along with everyone. To be fair Lunger has mellowed over the years and writes in more measured tones and a maturity that many members lack.

Anyway those who want to leave can just leave. By the way, leaving BW includes not logging in to the BW chat room too.

[imchaser]

wow. what a bold disscussion.

Im sorry moderators, but i think some of the mods are most of the majority that contribute to uninteresting topics in this forum. Like example, how many times would u need to see a new topic on a youtube video that they think is interesting, or something they receive in their emails, or new topic wishes someones birthday, or a news they copy paste from yahoo. Cant they see already these topics attracts few sometimes zero replies.

Talk about topic quality control man....

[oralb]

imchaser:

let me answer posting 1st, as I need to spend some time composing a reply to Arte.

This is a forum, not a blog, this place encorages participation. So if you think that quality control isnt there, then start posting topics that you deemed interesting.

What's wrong with others sharing youtube videos and other news links? Those that read those topics may not have seen this before. It encourages diversity.

Once again, this is a forum, you are free to start topics that's of your interest, of coz we do have some guidelines like no underage or no drugs. But other than that, you have a hand in maintaining quality control...

[GachiMuchi]

Good luck guys. All the best.

Drop in for coffee some time.

[oralb]

Dear Arte:

You have been a personal friend of mine and it doesnt feel good to see you leave.

I understand the above posting is your last post and you may not want to reply, but as a Mod, I believed I should bring forth my comments on your posting.

1. Buaya did bow out of the forum, for his own reason. However TopChinese didnt announce the withdrawal from BW. TC moved to another country but will still be back to "check in with you guys once in a while on any updates to the Singapore scene." (http://www.blowingwind.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10027)

2. Quality of forum filled with sex. To answer this, I needed to bring everyone back to the begining of BW forum. BW started as a gay blog from BW the man, on his PLU lifestyle and other observations, to which i can say that most are sexual related. There wasnt a forum to begin with and all postings were posted as comments to BW blog.

Slowly with the traffic increased, BW moved to a forum format and when Lungker sensed that BW wasnt keen to maintain the forum, he stood up and gathered Hendry and myself as the moderators of the new forum. Over time, we pulled in Gachi and Ikutube as moderators to bring in new blood to the team.

My point is, BW was a sex blog to start of, and personally I believed we have successfully branched out to other non-sex related areas as well. Till date, we have IT, food, travel and pets folder. And we are still looking out for passionate readers who wanted to start off an area of their interest as sub-mods as well.

Even on the main board, taking a screen shot of the 1st page of today 20th May, I can find serious discussion like 'Warning For Those Who Frequently Go Into Jb?'; 'California Ban On Same-sex Marriage Struck Down'; 'China Szechuan Earthquake' just to name a few. Like what I had wrote to imchaser, this is a forum, everyone has a part to play in so called 'quality control' and if you feel that there are other social issues that you would like to bring out, we are not stopping you.

The forum runs on demand and supply, when there is demand, there be supply and vice versa. Instead of harping of only sex posts are here, why dont you starts threads of non-sexual related. Yes the initial reply posting maybe limited, but i firmly believed that with presistance, there will be readers who wanted to participate in the discussion.

In addition, I dont necessary see the sexual postings as bad. This forum provides a santaury for readers in a conserverative singaporean society to indulge in a little fantasy.

3. I dont want to dwell on the part of 'moderators (not all, only a couple) who abuse their powers, show distinct bias and favouritism, and even log in as anonymous guests to participate in the ensuing melee.' As by not listing down examples, I would be doing a witch hunt.

4. Yes BW is a forum without attitude, but realisticly speaking we still need house rules to maintain the order, and i believed that guest vs members arguement had been said Nth times.

As mentioned, you are my friend, and I do hope to see you online, irc and even to gathering and dinners.

sincerely

OB

[erection day]

"This will be my last post here. Good riddance."

[kiddo]

Anyway those who want to leave can just leave. By the way, leaving BW includes not logging in to the BW chat room too.

ahh yes of course.. those who want to leave can just leave la.. but leaving BW includes the chatroom sounds kinda wrong..

because as what i seem to know blowingwind chat room has just started to accomodate guest people in there.. so if you are not registered in BW you can still go in and chat.. there is nothing wrong with going in with your previous nick just to say hi to friends right mods??

i hope to clarify this so ar next time when go in hor can use same nick.. if not change nick not only start confusion and hor let people think that you wanna fake an entry(let alone common bitching) to "Restricted/Registered" area like the Public chatroom in Internet Relay Chat (IRC)

Edited May 20, 2008 by kiddo

[Baloo]

I am so fugging impressed with the level of copycatting in here... it stinks to high heaven...

In the great tradition of blah blah blah blah.... copycat...

heh... even Madhatter is doin it, and hopes to rock the boat in a forbidden arena of discussion here...

I'd had close contacts with media people (read publishers, news editors, and the like) and I'd always tested waters with them about what is let 'lose' and what is 'taboo' and what 'attracts the most unwanted attention'

Freedom of expression is losened up... *as long as you dun touch a few of the sacred topics/directions*

These are, not exhaustively becos i can't blardy remember everything... personal things about our political leaders especially YOU KNOW WHO and his entire clan. the government of this country. defence details/codenames e.g. Exercise SeahorseHump... Racial and religious remarks are also not tolerated quite strictly. Especially if it's degoratory remarks. It's damn difficult to 'edit' without changing the flavour of the statements made - easier to just delete, and faster. This i totally agree.

Oh you can go ahead and criticise the opposition members, their actions, etc... NO problem...

but seriously, you people only go to one forum on the net??? you got political feedback, opinions and fart to make, go to YPAP Discussion Forums la... there got lots of people blasting everything they not happy about... including me... heh...

or you can go to Sammyboy forum (darn... i think i lost the link to this one... i miss reading it... any link from here? haha)

but for this forum, the fun is still there - even if some of us gets bored of it and says standards are dropping...

I think I been on this forum for past 10 to 11 years since its inception... i used another nick then... even met my best friend ever... on this forum...

People come and go... please do. The door is always open to welcome you back.

interesting note - in the past we had actionkid... today we have heartlander... both are sizzling in their own ways... there are others of course, too many to even mention all... the current ones include red bean soup, etc. who also write nice stories...

haha the only difference between actionkid and the current batch of writer contributors is - ak writes as a first party... it's HIS own accounts of happenings... as a first party 'blog' - so good you dunno it's fact or fiction... today's writers make it clear that it's a story... still as entertaining!

Lots of passive passengers here - lots of people I meet are aware of this forum, read only folks... who don't post. haha so you can be sure traffic is high, and you really won't know who is reading...

About being baised... sigh... who is neutral? I can accuse you of being neutral - a free gear that is not engaged...

so people reading this... come off it already about 'leaving' to make a point...

The forum is only as interesting and creative as the participants in it. It's standards drop becos we the participants did not participate, did not put in interesting posts, did not generate interesting discussions, only want to do taboo topics, and childish reaction when it gets scratched...

We all have our pet peeves, and pet fun topics, and love a good discussion that is topic attacking, not personal attacks, and examines the opinions objectively... and all opinions should be welcome as challenges to a stand... not be damned... unfortunately, many think that opinions must be accepted by everybody, and having a different opinion is some kind of personal attack... sigh... back to my first words of this post.....

hahaha ... this will be my last post ... i.e. my last words ... I have the last word here... pui... discussion forums where got last word one? sure kena discussed and disected la...

you do not have any 'last words' ... and interestingly enough, I suspect strongly, you will still be back somewhere down the road, in some other reincarnation, as a guest, etc... becos your life... loses meaning without the wind to blow it once in a while...

:whistle:

[IkuTube]

wow. what a bold disscussion.

Im sorry moderators, but i think some of the mods are most of the majority that contribute to uninteresting topics in this forum. Like example, how many times would u need to see a new topic on a youtube video that they think is interesting, or something they receive in their emails, or new topic wishes someones birthday, or a news they copy paste from yahoo. Cant they see already these topics attracts few sometimes zero replies.

Talk about topic quality control man....

Thank you for expressing the feedback, imchaser.

Once, a friend shared this wisdom to me when we were having casual chat about downloading torrent. He noticed that many torrent users would immediately exit when their downloads are done. In internet term, this group is termed 'leechers'. Torrent, or P2P, works effectively when there are seeders and the download speed is enhanced. When there are more seeders, everyone wins. He was thankful that there are few seeders who are willing to share, though the download speed will be affected.

Likewise, BW forum is a place where all our readers should be more proactive. Moderators alone cannot sustain the board. When a moderator initiated a new topic, it is about reaching out. Granted that some topics are not original and/or sound silly, but the fact is, he is doing his part to contribute to the forum - to build camaraderie amongst the 2,000 odds registered members and guests and to keep the forum going.

On the same note, any postings here - be it a link or an extraction from elsewhere, they are about information sharing. BW has a wide profile audience and we know that there are non-IT savvies who don't surf the web much. By posting these links/extractions, we provide that bridge which they would not have known.

Being a moderator in BW is not about recognition. As mentioned by the senior moderators, again and again, it is about passion. It is about bridging out to people like us and ensuring we stay within certain guidelines. We are volunteers and we cannot afford to jeopardize or trade our career. At the end of the day, we just wish for a little understanding.

Cheers!

[imchaser]

i really dont wanna sound bitter or negative or anything like that.... but reading all your replies makes me wanna voice out...

Since Artemov already been voted out of the island, it only justified the whole thing by someone writing on his behalf. Im not gonna quote every things u guys said and reply part by part, cos im not good at writing and it will be rediculous. Im sure all u old timers (no pun intended) can write very well in this topic alone, explaining all the stuff and how long u guys been around and how much effort and passion and all... but its not convincing and it contradicts to what its been explained.

For example Lungker, didnt u deleted my post when i said that your "guess the mandarin word games" r kinda lame and u can do a better game. Well maybe i deserved it for being so negative on a supposedly a happy topic guys-lets-join-in-the-fun-and-win-a-towel game. So it contradicts the theory of u doing that to protect the forum from the authorisation or whoever.

And replying regarding the seeders and leechers stuff. its not relevant at all. At least the torrent site is categorized systematically and every torrent is an interesting one.... oh yes theres is interesting topics contributed by not just the mods, sometimes the guest too... but what happen to those topics? when at the same day theres ten new topics regarding ten youtube videos u wish to spam, then by tomorrow the more interesting topics will goes to the next page.

And when almost all this kind of topics gets only 2 replies from your best friends or sometimes zero, or the view hits are extremely low, get a hint already! Stop repeating the same mistake! U dont see any awards for the most new topic posters of all time at the annual dinner, so why? We r not requesting for SEX only topics like what some of u saying we do but we just want interesting topics please. Anime review? nude women painting? and motivation video? next please! Know your audience! Or is it time for more categories... i dunno.

And a new topic requesting us to welcome the newly appointed another moderator Baloo? Gosh i dont even understand what he wrote on top. how to expect us to welcum him? haha sorry Baloo, i dunno u but im sure u r a great person.

wow i didnt know theres so much of unsatisfaction from me. i love this forum. maybe i ll try to be more a happy and positive person. haha. but i still wanna say u guys r great. its just me. im a bitter person.

[skylancer]

In the great traditions of Buaya and TopChinese, I am announcing my withdrawal from BW.

It has been a good 1 year, and I have made quite a few friends. Thank you all.

Frankly I think the quality of this forum has gone from bad to worse, these days it is filled mostly with inane threads on sex, more sex and an assortment of cringe-worthy nonsense.

But worse of all, we have moderators (not all, only a couple) who abuse their powers, show distinct bias and favouritism, and even log in as anonymous guests to participate in the ensuing melee.

The internet is supposed to be a place of free speech, a place with rules but also allows differing views and ideas. Yet this particular forum is run like a personal fiefdom, where rules are unclear and moderators play by their own rules and run the place according to their own whims, fancies and even insecurities. They get into personal squabbles and instead of defending themselves like a real man, abuse their moderators powers, misuse privileged information and censor replies. Shame on you.

My gratitude to moderators like Ikutube, who rise above partisanship and give a semblance of respectibility to this forum, a trait it sorely lacks.

This will be my last post here. Good riddance.

For Arte, as a neighborhood friend(since we are very very near). I only can say is, Bw is an open forum to all PLU.

As you can see the very 1st page of the forum 'Mature people', what comes in your mind?

Everyone got their own view of that, but not all are perfect.

It is just how you see the whole issue.

Anyway, i only can say is if possible ask me out for coffee ba since we are so near..

See you around boi...

[Lungker]

For example Lungker, didnt u deleted my post when i said that your "guess the mandarin word games" r kinda lame and u can do a better game. Well maybe i deserved it for being so negative on a supposedly a happy topic guys-lets-join-in-the-fun-and-win-a-towel game. So it contradicts the theory of u doing that to protect the forum from the authorisation or whoever.

Read the guidelines on anti-social behaviour.

Deleting your post wasn't to protect the forum. It is more like chasing a rat out of the kitchen. Comprende?

And if you cannot understand the difference, you are not as smart as you think you are.

Like what OB said, why don't you do something about it other than to complain...complain...

Don't be a NATO lah. Do something. What actually have you done beside complaining?

On another note, you ask for help setting up a blog. Do let us know when you do it. Please promote it here. A good way is to use the URL of your blog as your signature. Allow comments so we can all go there and tell you what a lousy job/brilliant job you are doing.

[nitebirdsg]

Read the guidelines on anti-social behaviour.

Deleting your post wasn't to protect the forum. It is more than chasing a rat out of the kitchen. Comprende?

And if you cannot understand the difference, you are not as smart as you think you are

Well I did took a look at the guidelines for anti-social behavior and chanced upon this :

Anti-social posting behaviour undermines the board as a source of valuable information and puts off many members, thereby deterring their continued participation. Examples of such behaviour include ......continuously posting mean and hurtful remarks to other posters ....

Does name calling not constitute 'mean and hurtful remarks' too ?

Physician ,heal thyself !

[Lungker]

Well I did took a look at the guidelines for anti-social behavior and chanced upon this :

Anti-social posting behaviour undermines the board as a source of valuable information and puts off many members, thereby deterring their continued participation. Examples of such behaviour include ......continuously posting mean and hurtful remarks to other posters ....

Does name calling not constitute 'mean and hurtful remarks' too ?

Physician ,heal thyself !

Oh please. Did I call him a rat? I said chase a rat out of the kitchen. Maybe I should just use the word rodent? Or maybe a cat? Then the cat lovers would come after me.

I started a game to cheer up the readers on a quiet night and he just saunter in and call it lame. What do you call his behaviour?

His comment has nothing to do with the game itself. Just a derisive and sarcastic comment to turn people off. I find that anti-social. What do you call it?

[ahseng]

Long time ago, I was taught agree to disagree.

If the kitchen is too hot, get out of the place.

We are entrusted with responsibility, we use our best ability to uphold them whether others sees it or not.

Like the polticians says "lets move on"

People passed our paths, stayed for a while, we be grateful for the company.

When it is time to say good bye, lets keep the fond memory till we meet again.

[chubaholic]

Read the guidelines on anti-social behaviour.

Lungker, it is too mild to be considered as anti-social behaviour. It is just an opinion.

I found my post missing also. I hope you did not delete it. If you did, shame on you. :yuk:

You are becoming like someone died and made you king.

[oralb]

Sigh... imchaser...I really dun know whether you are keeping track on what's happening here or you had been reading the replies...

1. Arte was not voted out of the island, he chose to quit and leave the forum. There is no tribal council or 1900 hot line to vote, are you watching too many reality show?

2. Did arte elect you to write on his behalf? So you are arte spoke person now?

3. You claimed that we can write very well, and yet to you it is STILL not convincing and contradicts, so are we really writing very well then?

4. Ikutube bring out the points on torrent is to highlight an issue, since he is too nice to say it, let me place in layman term to you. Stop being a leech and start contributing. Easy enough to understand? I can translate into Chinese if you prefer. Oh please, how can every torrent be interesting? Do you download every single one of them?

5. What is interesting? Suddenly we have to answer to customer now? This is not TV station where you accept everything unwillingly. This is a forum, you have a say in it, rather than contributing posts that claiming other's game was lame. How about starting you interesting topics? Which part of forum that you DO NOT get?

6. The last I check, this is still BW forum, not imchaser's forum, we don’t have to kowtow to you and post only topics of your interest, even if the so called un-interesting topics only had 1 viewer, I am still happy that that piece of info has reach another person.

7. Speaking of interesting, let see what 'interesting' topics you have posted so far (since it is only fair you dig out mine)

- Which Blog Site Should I Use?

- Game: Top 5 Lists

- Game: Continue The Story

- Anyone Stays At Forfar Heights Queenstown?

- Cheap Dildo Lookalike Only $2 At Daiso

- Sorry, Another Breakup Problem

wow groundbreaking interesting topics you have there, haven’t you? and yes I am being sarcastic here.

8.

And a new topic requesting us to welcome the newly appointed another moderator Baloo? Gosh I don’t even understand what he wrote on top. how to expect us to welcum him? haha sorry Baloo, I dunno u but im sure u r a great person.

Back to point 7, while you think it is okay to start a topic by telling us cheap dildo at Daiso, it is not okay for us to officially announce a new moderator to the forum? Double standard, don’t you think?

And please if you don’t understand what baloo wrote in the above posting, I would suggest you take the opportunity to learn something here, rather than criticize, especially you are sure that he is a great person.

9. Lastly, thank you for your feedback, and yes try to be more happy and positive person as you are really a bitter person

[Guest bearbear]

OMG! Whats happening? Im not taking sides as I really dun know whats going on lor. Been away fm bw almost 2 months and was so happy to be back. Anyway, I miss you all and those whom left hope to catch you all soon, maybe during badminton or something.

bb

[Lungker]

"Did arte elect you to write on his behalf? So you are arte spoke person now?"

How many anti-me posters are personal friends of Artemov. I would like to see a show of hands please.

"7. Speaking of interesting, let see what 'interesting' topics you have posted so far (since it is only fair you dig out mine)"

Sorry OB, you missed out one. I quarantine a topic started by him telling people to download a bunch of magazines that explicitly tell stories and with drawn images of middle-age men having sex with young boys. Incest, lots of incest stories included of course. Although the age of the boys were never told, the images were clearly of young boys. All without or with minimal pubic hairs.

Imchaser, I very strongly suggest you delete whatever images you have from that site from your computer. When I said sometime we are trying to save people from their own follies, I meant it. Even for people like you. But of course some people here die die also won't believe me.

*SIGH*

[Ferrari]

Joining a forum seems so easy but quitting a forum seems so hard. For one thing, the quitter will ventilate all negative things before he quits. What is the motive? To overturn something or somebody and to stay back eventually because it is so difficult to LET GO. It is so typical of human especially when a quitter stays with a forum for donkey years. This saga reveals the weakness of human in that quitters cannot quit silently but loudly as if the forum owes them all these years of contributions as faithful members.

The quitters have their agenda but the moderators have their rules and regulations and DISCRETION to ensure a balance. I see arrows shooting very harshly but I also see unity in supporting each other.

One word for quitter - quit silently without disrupting the harmony of BW.........just learn to let go because nobody is indispensable.

Or pehaps the quitters can leave and form their own forums since they cannot flow with the ideas of moderators. If they can succeed as a new forum, good for them. If they cannot, then they will know the meaning of discipline and not allow "freedom of expressions" to run loose. They will know what it is to work within the boundaries of a government.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Ferrari

[imchaser]

Oh great. What a wonderful day. Ive already receive a big lecture on life lesson from my partner for not replying his sms on time, and now this. Maybe I should just go get drunk and smokes my lungs out and reflect on myself.

Ive already tried my best to be respectful and this is what I get. U guys r nasty moderators.

"Deleting your post wasn't to protect the forum. It is more like chasing a rat out of the kitchen. And if you cannot understand the difference, you are not as smart as you think you are."

I know the difference baby, im just stating an example after u gave the long passionate speech regarding how magnanimous u r to protect the forum by deleting posts. Yes we need that kinda of action, but as u stated yourself, by deleting my post isnt in the agenda of protecting its more on a personal agenda. By calling me stupid isnt the name of the game dude, I think u r the one who don't understand.

"Like what OB said, why don't you do something about it other than to complain...complain... Don't be a NATO lah. Do something. What actually have you done beside complaining?"

Oh, so the only time im complaining abt the quality posts, suddenly im the complain queen? Im sorry, I didn't know giving feedback is prohihibited.

"I started a game to cheer up the readers on a quiet night and he just saunter in and call it lame. His comment has nothing to do with the game itself. Just a derisive and sarcastic comment to turn people off. I find that anti-social. What do you call it??"

So I might be a bit off or used the wrong word by giving my opinion. Sorry. So instead of telling me off in the topic, u just decided to make my post dissapear. Good job. And as far as I know based on the guidelines, u only delete posts that was deemed sensitive issues or against the law.

"Arte was not voted out of the island, he chose to quit and leave the forum. There is no tribal council or 1900 hot line to vote, are you watching too many reality show??"

It doesn't matter, as far as I know, he is no longer in the running to be the American Next Top Model. Yes I watch too much of reality show.

"Stop being a leech and start contributing. Easy enough to understand? I can translate into Chinese if you prefer. ?"

Another hurting remarks that I don't deserve.

we don’t have to kowtow to you and post only topics of your interest, even if the so called un-interesting topics only had 1 viewer, I am still happy that that piece of info has reach another person."

No u don't have to, but based on the posting guidelines reply number 3 point number 4 the last sentence read " Threads in our forums should either be of gay, gay-appeal or have a significant level of interest from our readers.". This already justified the main reason of the complaining here.

"Speaking of interesting, let see what 'interesting' topics you have posted so far (since it is only fair you dig out mine)

..........

wow groundbreaking interesting topics you have there, haven’t you? and yes I am being sarcastic here."

Yes thanks for bringing it up. Its quite groundbreaking actually, considering the statistic of my overall 6 topics generates more viewer and replies than your last maybe 20 topics combined. And yes I am being in-your-face here.

"I quarantine a topic started by him telling people to download a bunch of magazines that explicitly tell stories and with drawn images of middle-age men having sex with young boys."

Now this I accept with full respect of your action. Thank u for doing that b4 I get into trouble. I need to clarify that im not a phidophile. And the boys r not really child its just they were drawn as a young guy with older guys by artist like Josman, Julius and some Gengoroh Tagame work. I don't think its that illigal if not how u explained those hentai with busty school girls in school uniform being attack by horny octupus's tentacles. Anyway, im in the wrong here regarding this issue. sorry.

Oh gosh... I cant believe I post all these things here. Very sorry if I offended anyone guys. U guys r great, im a no one compare to all of u who have been around for so long. Don't keep it at heart pls. love u guys.

sorry oralb and lungker, doesnt mean to be disrespectful... very sorry. i feel bad too ok.

Edited May 21, 2008 by imchaser

[clementi]

Read the guidelines on anti-social behaviour.

Deleting your post wasn't to protect the forum. It is more like chasing a rat out of the kitchen. Comprende?

And if you cannot understand the difference, you are not as smart as you think you are.

Like what OB said, why don't you do something about it other than to complain...complain...

Don't be a NATO lah. Do something. What actually have you done beside complaining?

On another note, you ask for help setting up a blog. Do let us know when you do it. Please promote it here. A good way is to use the URL of your blog as your signature. Allow comments so we can all go there and tell you what a lousy job/brilliant job you are doing.

Lungker as moderator has done a good job. Those offensive postings shall be deleted, I am suppportive of moderator's action.

[Lungker]

Oh gosh... I cant believe I post all these things here. Very sorry if I offended anyone guys. U guys r great, im a no one compare to all of u who have been around for so long. Don't keep it at heart pls. love u guys.

sorry oralb and lungker, doesnt mean to be disrespectful... very sorry. i feel bad too ok.

Apology accepted. Chinese say "no fight do not really know each other." With this discussion, we sincerely hope readers get an honest and better understanding of why we do what we do.

We are all PLUs and I can frankly say all the mods/admins feel passionately about our community. We manage/run this forum for the benefits of our community. Beside providing an avenue for gays to discuss about sex, we also promote safer sex, civic initiatives, counselling, education and information, social activities etc. There is no vested interest on our part doing our job. We don't make a single cent. None of us found a bf here.

Doing what we did, we are just trying to enhance the lives of our gay brothers. People come here and share their problems with their relationship, their sickness, their loneliness, their financial hardships and even problems with their computers. We, especially the readers try to solve all these problems.

We also promote the pink business allowing them to freely advertise their business here.

For three years as a mod, I have never said the things I have said here the last few days in this thread. Trust me when I said the mods here do not gloat or boast about the the things we do. Not once. This time, things are different. As the oldest mod here, I felt it is my duty to open up and be brutally frank with the readers. That's why I have revealed so many things that we mods knew but kept close to our hearts. I just hope that readers cam empathise with our positions.

[oralb]

imchaser...

we take feedback very well...

so how about telling us

1. Who is our reader?

2. What is our readers profile?

3. What sort thread is 'of significant interest'?

4. What sort of quality control measures should be in place?

i learnt to see positive side of everything, so please enlighten us

[Rotaredom]

Brothers killing brothers, spilling blood across this thread is something that might happen in no time. For those who still remember "Hong Lim Park Forum which was once run by Ah T*@K and friends, it is now invaded by spam mails without proper control and measures. Kudos to BW moderators as far as i am concern. I may be new to this forum but i have been an observer for years. Lets adjust the expectations a little lower, be more tolerant and BW will stay on for many more good years. Some PLUs are extremely sensitive with words and interpret meanings out of proportion and believe its a personal attack, thus, set the world on FIRE.....

Everyone here has a reason to log into BW forum. Some jus want to obtain information in this circle, some hope to share their personal misery/happiness, some jus simply want to have FUN. Whatever reasons you are in, you know that this is the place where you feel more breathable...more space to express your heartburn issues. Nothing on earth stays forever, when my sun is set, i know the wind is still blowing.

Take care......

[metalmickey]

From an exchange between Gachi Muchi and a BW Moderator, dated Aug 13 2006, 02:03 AM. Quotes by Moderator, followed by replies by Gachi

Post #24

QUOTE

By all means post what you want, go ahead and express your opinions, flame or encourage if you have to, but please stick to the point of the original thread. We are simply asking for consideration and sensibility from our readers.

Excuse me Mr. Moderator; I was sticking to the posting to BM’s story, until I was "shot" at by an idiot. I merely reply in kind. So why the hell are you faulting me? I don't need you to take my side but please do not be blind to what is happening. Why don't you warn the Guest for starting this whole shit?

QUOTE

(though not limited to)

Don' throw vague rules at me when you know that I did no wrong. You may have a certain opinion of me that is you. But be fair, which you are not.

You did not reply me on why you did not practice decent courtesy of sending me a PM or " *** edited by moderator*** ". Talk about fairness. Did you conveniently leave out this matter of our "discussion"?

QUOTE

You have been arrogant and antagonistic in the past to other posters leading to flame wars. My job among other things is to keep the peace in this board. I am advising you to be more considerate in your comments. If you can't, then it is my job to make this forum a more condusive place to hang out.

I believe you did not practice fair judgment when you have already formed an opinion of me. There are Guests whom were also responsible for flaming wars too. Please don’t single me out and please don't try to sound impartial when obviously you are not. Talking about arrogant and antagonistic, you are no different; on top of that, you are also totalitarian too. How’s that for my opinion of you?

QUOTE

Don't be mistaken that this is a place that is completely "free for all". It is not. Freedom of expression comes with responsibilities. You want to yell, disparage, humiliate and put down others down in your own Yahoo group, go ahead. But while anyone is here, they will have to stick to the terms of engagement as posted in our guidelines. If not, we will edit their comments and delete them if necessary. This is done so that no one will not hurt the feelings of readers, both guests and members. Our posting guidelines are clear on this.

Oh, so sorry to hear that, but from the way the guests are posting and taking shot at members it does appears to me and other members, that it seem like a "free for all". Talk about responsible expression, why then did you allow Guest to yell and disparage and humiliate without putting a name to their postings. I am a registered member and I put a name to my posting and my nick is not GUEST. It is Gachi Muchi. So don't give me your crapy lecture when you should be looking at how to prevent them from ruining the “safe and conducive” forum.

QUOTE

We do not censor opinions. We do not censor fair comments. However, we will edit comments that are irrelevant, hurtful and harsh, leading to people being afraid to post their comments.

Then you should let me edit your comments as I find some of your comments, unfair, hurtful and harsh too. But that did not stop me from posting my comment about YOU, even though you are the moderator. You did not practice fairness and thus you don't get my respect. (Bolding and coloring mine - MM)

QUOTE

You have the right not agree to our position. This is a free society. You are not trapped here. You have other options to post your unique comments elsewhere. But while you are here, kindly remember our position to make this forum a SAFE and CONDUSIVE place for ALL readers is clear.

This BW forum IS Safe and Condusive, but I know that since you took over the moderation, some members have since stopped posting, do you know why? It is because of YOU that's why.

QUOTE

As we have made our position in this matter clear to you, this will be my last words on this subject to you. As reflected often by your style, you can have the last comment. Ciao.

This dialogue is not over yet, and I am sure, I am not the one with the last comment."

*****************************************************************************

From the style and same use of words by the Moderator in this case, you can guess who the Moderator is. As it was then, so it is STILL now. Gachi makes a good point in the reply of his which I bolded. The point I'm trying to make here is: Moderators, you may have the authority and freedom to do as you see fit in this forum. But for goodness sake, please resist the urge to arbitrarily delete or remove comments from posters here first without first giving the posters in question a decent and just opportunity to defend themselves. Even a court of law guarantees due process for defence. Also, by taking it personally and replying tactlessly and rudely to people that you don't agree with, aren't you actually contradicting your rule that you prohibit the posting of comments that "hurt the feelings of readers, both guests and members"? To quote Uncle Ben from Spider-Man, "With great power, comes great responsibility" and this one often attributed to Lord Acton, "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Everyone here has to be responsible and be held accountable for their own actions. We have the Moderators as our Watchmen. But to quote from a famous comic book, "Who watches the Watchmen?"

Moderators, you may see fit to arbitrarily remove this post if it troubles you, but ask yourself this question first: Am I censoring this comment for the good of the whole BW community, or am I doing it just to save my own face and serve my own selfish ends?

Edited May 22, 2008 by metalmickey

[Lungker]

Obviously the mod is me. I think MM has a crush on me lah ....am I correct kiddo? This is the third time he is doing things like like here. Just trying to get my attention. Want to date me just say so lah.

Just so you know what you are getting, I am 183, 78, insatiable bottom, often bitchy and looks like a HDB auntie who wears Aberecrombie (not a typo) outfit and carry two handle man (or is it hand) bag bought in Yishun Ring Road pasar malam.

I like my man matured, chunky (stocky, stout), with huge fingers, Teochew (slurp, Teochew is good...) rides a bike, 100% top, self assured and confident but logical, great sense of humour (very good asset), loves drinking (alcohol lah) and smokes like a chimney (like me), plays golf,...etc. OMG! I think I just described BALOO!!!! Watch your ass Baloo, I am coming after ya.

Ok back to the main topic.

"Who watches the Watchmen?"

Don't confuse yourself. BW is not a public institution. People can join or leave anytime...some hollering like petulant kids who had been refused a cookie before dinnertime. People here have freedom and choice. But since this is a PRIVATE organisation, we have rules and regulations for participation. People who participate here are expected to abide by our rules and regulations. My discourse with Gachi two years back has nothing to do with "sacred topics." In this thread, we are talking about sacred topics. AS explained before here, any post with references to the sacred topics will be immediately deleted.

And btw, the one person who own the name rights of this place, and has the power over all the mods is BW the man who started all this. He is probably drinking pina colada somewhere in the Caribbean.

Kiddo, he is more your type. I think he likes younger men and I believe he is available too. But do read all his postings and comments at http://blowingwind.tripod.com/

before you write to him. So you will know him better lah. Read the old bulletin board also if you like reading about the history of how homosexuality, in Singapore slowly became more liberal.

Although a big chunk of this post is made in jest, some is serious. Readers can decide for themselves which is which.

[kiddo]

Kiddo, he is more your type. I think he likes younger men and I believe he is available too. But do read all his postings and comments at http://blowingwind.tripod.com/

before you write to him. So you will know him better lah. Read the old bulletin board also if you like reading about the history of how homosexuality, in Singapore slowly became more liberal.

huh??!!! wah i thought such things are to be found in the personals section only?? hahaha but nah i will give it a pass since i am attached...

Edited May 22, 2008 by kiddo

[oralb]

kiddo

i think lungker's 'kiddo' refers to metalmicky...

[chubbylover]

I wonder if anyone actually bother to go and take a look at the old old posts in the original BW forum?

Notice how come we do not have such an issue then?

The truth is: the maturity level of posters here has deteriorated

What used to be a forum frequented and supported by matured closeted PLUs is now being dominated by young, imbecile, immature twinks and queens...who goes out really loud and thinking they have nothing to lose.

loud and emotional...EQ zero.

You want to be intellectual? Oh please, even Billy Joel don't fancy clever conversations. Please save your intelligent juices for other more serious forums, or is it because you cannot fit into anywhere else but here?

You want to display your attitude? Sorry....wrong forum. Because this is a "...bulletin board without an attitude...for mature Singapore gay man..."

Don't you have other better things to do out there?

Or maybe....you are not matured enough?

[the original post has been edited as the writer feels that the edited contents can be pretty offensive for the immature audience, and may cause lack of sleep or appetite...]

Edited May 22, 2008 by chubbylover

[GachiMuchi]

Wow, I was happily trying to avoid getting into the debate that is going on here and suddenly I see my name being mentioned.

hmm...Thank you MM (note : not our country's MM) for bringing up my case, but I think the story behind my case is different from the current debate.

I am totally FOR the removal of "objectionable" topics that will cause "harm", directly or indirectly to BW and fellow mods.

There, I've said it.

And in any case, if someone wants to stir shit, be prepared to have shit thrown back at them. That's my stand.

[chubaholic]

But do read all his postings and comments at http://blowingwind.tripod.com/

before you write to him. So you will know him better lah. Read the old bulletin board also if you like reading about the history of how homosexuality, in Singapore slowly became more liberal.

Although a big chunk of this post is made in jest, some is serious. Readers can decide for themselves which is which.

Love this piece. http://blowingwind.tripod.com/wind23.html

"But when I looked at the trees, leaves and flowers of Hong Lim Park, they exist because they are there even though the busy office workers may hurry by without taking a look. As the wind blows through and rustled the leaves, the gays of those olden days rustled the leaves in quiet quests to satisfy urges that they did not quite understand. The traces of warmth from others like them were hidden in the deepest corners of their memories. No stories, no records, no news reports.... nothing. All those love juices of countless wild passions, they just returned to nature."

[TOPaw]

Anyway those who want to leave can just leave. By the way, leaving BW includes not logging in to the BW chat room too.

I will remember this...

Forever

I want you to remember it too.

Edited May 27, 2008 by TOPaw

[Baloo]

it doesn't get any more QUEEN than this...

you want us to 'siew pow jeong soong lei zhaou' is it?

wat a total waste of bandwidth... the last striptease before the big exit... and back for endless encore posts...

this is the type who keeps threatening to commit suicide... for years, thousands of times, yet still haven't succeeded becos it will always be a performance... in front of an audience...

how failure can you be? fail to commit suicide? or it's all for show to attract attention? for sure, if ever i wanted to take my own life, i would never be such a pitiful failure as to not be successful at the first try ... unless, of course, it's an undying suicide...

i have nothing against those who wish to leave, happy or unhappy... but to bitch about it for so long??? or have friends of the dearly departed come and raise hue and cry??

it's clearly an exciting way to create more posts and interest in this here forum i'll say...

go on... bitch away.... this is becoming a hot thread... those commenting that the threads are becoming more blah blah blah... hahaha... see what your friends are doing on your behalf? geez....

on with the show ... please.....

[Ferrari]

Haha.....quitters are still haunting the forum.....

LET GO

真是阴魂不散

Edited May 27, 2008 by Ferrari

[2bsucked]

One question I always meant to ask...if someone wants to leave a forum...why must they announce? If you want to leave, just don't log on or visit the forum anymore. I think when someone announces, its just to see what kind of sympathy or responses they get to test their popularity...to see how many people who actually care.

So...show more care to one another...else someone else in the forum who feels they are being left out or because of low self-esteem needs to test their popularity would need to announce their departure from a "public" forum again...

This is my opionion.

[oralb]

tks for the comment... this has been a past history, let it goes...

[akated]

i'm surprised that this topic is not locked, considering that art's goodbye was such a long time ago, and all the arguments have ended. heh.

as ob said it himself, this topic is past history.

Edited October 19, 2008 by akated

[GachiMuchi]

Just for your info. BearBear has also requested that he leave BW. We have since removed his account.

Ok, Aka, this discussion is closed.