Is Sauna Legal? + Local Sauna Raided? (Compiled)

[Guest Fundoshi Fetish]

today friday, one seven got raided by police because it is a nude nite.

tomorrow saturday will be towel club's turn as it is the full moon party

Heard that the CNB (Narcotic officers) and police called at 1-7 this evening. Is this another drug case? Why don't they carry out another entrapment exercise?

[Guest Guest]

today friday, one seven got raided by police because it is a nude nite.

tomorrow saturday will be towel club's turn as it is the full moon party

I doubt TC will have an FMP given the current hullabaloo

[jason]

wat time ONESEVEN was being raided ?

[Treadmill]

Visited TC on Sat. nite, there was no FMP, it was a normal nite., but the patron was thicker & better than previous weeks, many were eager to make out openly (i.e. not in the private rooms) .The crowd seemed relaxed & oblivious that there was a raid in OS the previous nite(well, could someone please verify ?)

There were some Japs ,tourists?( overheard their conversation), few Malaysian , May be 20~30% were regulars (usual Sat nites, regulars would be somewhere around 50%).

[oralb]

after the recent hooha on the drug doc and the article in new paper, does the raid surprise you?

sooner or later, they have to do something to show to general public that they are controlling or monitoring the situation.

are they closing down on the PLU joints, dont think so as a simple restrain order would have closed the joints down.

if you want to go, well open your eyes and ears, if you see lights on or commotion, stop whatever you are doing, wrap your towel, get out of private room and stay cool. they cant book you for for being in a private club naked. (or else they have to book all the fitness center and golf clubs)

and please NO DRUGS, if you see someone having one, or sense drug abuse is going on, get out, inform the club operator and leave the joint.

live to "fight" for anther day...

[thaiboyz]

wat time ONESEVEN was being raided ?

OS was raided at around 4 pm on friday. However, the police was there for their rounds, and no one was caught in the act. Later they adjourned to TC.

TC's FMP has been cancelled since TNP report but the natural nite in OS still carried on as normal. Quite a big turn out yesterday at TC's speedo nite

[DragonRider]

wat time ONESEVEN was being raided ?

OS was raided at around 4 pm on friday. However, the police was there for their rounds, and no one was caught in the act. Later they adjourned to TC.

TC's FMP has been cancelled since TNP report but the natural nite in OS still carried on as normal. Quite a big turn out yesterday at TC's speedo nite

The police going on their rounds doesn't qualify as a raid. A raid is when they round up everyone and take down particulars or bus everyone to some place for urine tests... Apparently, it is the job of the vice squad to make such visits to all sorts of establishments. So let's not scare ourselves silly with such talk.

[Guest gMoh]

OS was raided at around 4 pm on friday. However, the police was there for their rounds, and no one was caught in the act. Later they adjourned to TC.

Agreed with dragonraider ........ it wasn't a raid but police making their round. The terminology of raid is entirely different than police making their round. Such a silly comment.

[Guest Guest]

NOTICE ON ONE SEVEN NOTICE BOARD

On Friday 9/6 at 3:00pm, we were

inspected by about 15-20 persons

from Health, Narcostics and Police.

They were not allowed in until

their identities were verified by a

uniform police officer at about

4:00pm even tho thet said they

were going to jump over the

counter and have me arrested.

Neither action was done.

All our working lights were turned

on upstairs & downstairs. No one

was questioned, no on was

delayed from leaving and no IC

number were asked for.

Why did they come?

It is clear that they were ONLY

interested in looking for drugs.

Even tho they said they had a

complaint but would not give me

the card number of that person. I

let them in, because we have no

hidden drugs.

What we are doing here is not

the area they were checking.

The only thing that they found was

some of my personal Cialas

They left at about 5:00pm.

Sam

[Guest gMoh]

NOTICE ON ONE SEVEN NOTICE BOARD

On Friday 9/6 at 3:00pm, we were

inspected by about 15-20 persons

from Health, Narcostics and Police.

What kind of report is this? Report from 1-7 or from Sam as saunagoer. Did you write all the wordings on notice board of 1-7 and re-described here?

Is our local Authority so inefficient, conducting a routine check with 20 persons manpower? Or just the officers being kaypoh or just wanna take the opportunity to see how the gay sauna look like ?

[worldangel]

NOTICE ON ONE SEVEN NOTICE BOARD

The only thing that they found was

some of my personal Cialas

They left at about 5:00pm.

Sam

I think the man who posted the the message, called Sam (Harvey Schwarzt) is the owner of One-Seven sauna.

[Guest Guest]

.......just wanna take the opportunity to see how the gay sauna look like ?

Most probably who knows, they might be closet gays :whistle: But hesitate to visit a gay suana becos of their job and identity No report of the mah tah handsome or not?

[Guest guest]

There is a discussion in Trevvy forum on this incident. This is one info extracted from that Forum. Any comments?

------------------------------

Dear members,

Our water supply was turned off at 10pm on the 25th of April 2008, Saturday.

When we opened the back door to investigate and turn it back on, a few

plain-clothes officers from the CID rushed in. Sam immediately tried to stop

them and demanded to know what was going on. They told him that they were

conducting a "spot-check". When asked what they were checking for, they

simply repeated "spot-check". The officers refused to specify what they

were checking for despite repeated demands. Sam also asked if they had a warrant to check the premises. They refused to reply.

At this point in time, we turned on all the lights upstairs and downstairs to

alert the members that a check was going on. None of the members were stopped from dressing or leaving, nor were they searched or any particulars taken.

When a female officer tried to enter, Sam repeatedly shouted that she was not

allowed to enter as we are a private men's club and insisted that she leave.

Thereupon, the

supervising officer threw Sam to the ground and twisted his arms behind his back

to handcuff him. Because of this, Sam sustained cuts to his wrist and bruises

on his left rib, for which he was later brought to the Singapore General

Hospital for treatment.

The officers only removed several DVDs and Sam was arrested and spent the night

in jail. He has been charged with assaulting (pushing) the officer that

handcuffed him despite never having laid hands upon him. Sam is 74 years old.

The officer was about 40.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused and will give a free return visit to

anyone who was here when the incident occurred ; just tell the front desk.

We are open for business as usual for our 8TH YEAR from 11:30am to 11:30 pm on

weekdays and from 11:30 am till 7am the following day on Fridays and

Saturdays.

Club One Seven

[Guest hunk]

There was also a brief spot check over at Raw at about 8pm prior to the one at 1-7. I saw the officers. evem that lady, and they were very discreet. I think because Sam tried to argue and stop them from doing their checks that this incident has to escalated to this unfortunate turn of event.

[Guest Guest]

If they came in to a private premises without a warrant, is it wrong to defend trespassing of your own premises? If the police are entitled to enter your premises without a warrant, is there an actual legal purpose to a warrant? Someone like Mr Wong Kan Seng must answer these questions to account for and prevent the police's abuse of their power.

[Guest gammaguy]

Not totally surprising. Wong Kan Seng and MHA trying to flex their muscles after the entire Mas Selamat saga and we, the poor ajs have to bear the brunt. What to do? It has happened. KNS

[Guest Guest]

i don't think they need one to perform a check on this dude.

[fugues]

The days of police harassment are back again. All this talk of giving us our own space is just hog wash! I hope Sam is on the mend. He is one courageous dude and he deserves our support!

[BW81]

who cares? they sld have rounded up everyone, made them do an instant HIV test....bet some will show positive haha...

[Guest Guest]

who cares? they sld have rounded up everyone, made them do an instant HIV test....bet some will show positive haha...

yes yes while they're at it, they should put all those who are positive in concentration camps too!

people like you should get off your moral high horse

[BW81]

why sld we get overly excited over a spa raid? we noe that this is not a normal spa. it is where gays go for sex.

dont cry gay kenna penalised just because of a spa raid. dont the police raid illegal massuer-cum sex hses and illegal pros? does that mean they are penalising the straight population? LOL

if our aj spa is catered for clean services and it gets raided, i will voice concern but not in this case. If places like ex-defunc Oso gets raided for no reason (apparently its just a ktv place), den I will voice concern.

the gov may give us our own spaces but that doesnt mean we can do all kinds of activities.

Edited April 27, 2008 by BW81

[Guest jazz7117]

If they came in to a private premises without a warrant, is it wrong to defend trespassing of your own premises? If the police are entitled to enter your premises without a warrant, is there an actual legal purpose to a warrant? Someone like Mr Wong Kan Seng must answer these questions to account for and prevent the police's abuse of their power.

Warrant? They can come up with so many reasons as to why they wanted to enter the premises!

If under the pretext of "drugs" and "drugs related" search, they are empowered by the Misuse of Drugs Act, Chapter 185 to enter the premises w/o a warrant as long as amongst them, there is an officer from CNB, an Assistant Superintendent of Police (ASP) or a Senior Officer of Customs.

The owner / caretaker of the premises must cooperate with them.

In this case, was he (to borrow the words of Guest) "defending the trespassing of the premises" or was he simply trying the delay tactics so that the clients have time to react?

[Guest Guest]

25 Apr is Saturday meh?? Sometimes Sam is really not tactful when dealing when situation. He can offend someone with his words without him knowing.

[Guest -TNT-]

Warrant? They can come up with so many reasons as to why they wanted to enter the premises!

If under the pretext of "drugs" and "drugs related" search, they are empowered by the Misuse of Drugs Act, Chapter 185 to enter the premises w/o a warrant as long as amongst them, there is an officer from CNB, an Assistant Superintendent of Police (ASP) or a Senior Officer of Customs.

The owner / caretaker of the premises must cooperate with them.

In this case, was he (to borrow the words of Guest) "defending the trespassing of the premises" or was he simply trying the delay tactics so that the clients have time to react?

if nothing is found in this action, can the owner sue them ??

[robbie]

why sld we get overly excited over a spa raid? we noe that this is not a normal spa. it is where gays go for sex.

dont cry gay kenna penalised just because of a spa raid. dont the police raid illegal massuer-cum sex hses and illegal pros? does that mean they are penalising the straight population? LOL

if our aj spa is catered for clean services and it gets raided, i will voice concern but not in this case. If places like ex-defunc Oso gets raided for no reason (apparently its just a ktv place), den I will voice concern.

the gov may give us our own spaces but that doesnt mean we can do all kinds of activities.

You can't possibly compare a gay sauna with prostitution ! A group of equal, consenting adults in private are not the same as paying a prostitute for sex.

[Guest chnapple]

You can't possibly compare a gay sauna with prostitution ! A group of equal, consenting adults in private are not the same as paying a prostitute for sex.

I guess you must have forgotten. Gay sex is still very much a criminal act in this dear country.

[Guest gammaguy]

why sld we get overly excited over a spa raid? we noe that this is not a normal spa. it is where gays go for sex.

dont cry gay kenna penalised just because of a spa raid. dont the police raid illegal massuer-cum sex hses and illegal pros? does that mean they are penalising the straight population? LOL

if our aj spa is catered for clean services and it gets raided, i will voice concern but not in this case. If places like ex-defunc Oso gets raided for no reason (apparently its just a ktv place), den I will voice concern.

the gov may give us our own spaces but that doesnt mean we can do all kinds of activities.

What own spaces are you talking about? So, according to you a police has the right to go to any places to search without a warrant? Going by your warped logic, even if the police were to enter by force into your house in the middle of the night, you would still think they did the right thing i guess.

[Guest Guest]

Unless BW81 has had sex with only one partner all his life, he is still having casual sex with multiple partners. Doing it in the sauna or at home is still doing it. Different places, same sin. So STFU. Hypocrite.

[trojan_junk]

wow, easy people! easy! we're not quarrelling here.

so can anybody confirmed that this incident actually happened? was there anybody here who was at the vicinity when the incident happened? did it impact any of the guests?

xie xie!

[BW81]

Unless BW81 has had sex with only one partner all his life, he is still having casual sex with multiple partners. Doing it in the sauna or at home is still doing it. Different places, same sin. So STFU. Hypocrite.

doing at home is ok. not when u r doing it in a place disguised as sauna. even ur parents have sex doesnt mean they dont condemm prositution hse?

17 is a private club, u pay to go to be a 'hooker'. who cares if it is close down or not.

no pt argue w u coz ur view is not objective. PERIOD.

Edited April 27, 2008 by BW81

[Guest Agares]

How objective are your points then?

You sound tremendous like a particular person also harping on this issue in Trevvy, to the point of using almost the same words. Both of you seems to strongly suggest you wanted the raid. i wonder why.

[Guest Guest]

bW81

1) Doing it at home is ok? Let me know when your parents rent a hotel on valentines day. I'll call the cops to bloody arrest them for doing it outside of their house. Do you know how many attched boyfriends have to resort to these kind of places because they can't bring their own bfs home?

2) If you subscribe to the straight world's morality, why the hell are you gay? You use the anus for sex when the anus should be used only for excretion! You are immoral. Just like the people who go to the sauna.

3) It seems like with you high moral standards, it would not be beyond you to call the cops on the saunas, would it? Could you be it? The very traitor of our community!?

[Guest asianguy]

WOW! why doesn;t someone send this information to the media? Ok maybe not the biased media in Singapore but maybe to the overseas gay friendly media.

[taxme7]

How is uncle Sam now? He is alright?

Maybe those regulars should stop going to saunas for the time being....

[Guest guest]

How is uncle Sam now? He is alright?

Maybe those regulars should stop going to saunas for the time being....

It is ok to continue going for those who like to go saunas. The police did not arrest anyone for going to One-Seven (to have sex or watever). They are not targetting gay sex, it seems. This is not the first time they have checked on saunas. Quite a number of times already. And as someone posted on this forum, that nite the police went to RAW sauna too, but they did their checks discreetly over at RAW without any dramatic incident. Perhaps the police was unhappy with One-Seven's owner's behaviour (all the shouting at the police etc) so that in the end, after initially allowing more than a hundred customers leaving that place, they decided to make life difficult by stopping the rest from leaving and starting recording the IC of all the remaining customers. Someone mentioned that One-Seven's owner was doing all the shouting etc perhaps as a delay tactic, giving his staff time to rush to switch on all the lights and to buy more time for his customers to find their towels to put on (it was a nudist night). I can imagine that a few guys would find themselves without towels left upstairs and they would have to run down quickly to the lockers - which may mean that they have to run pass the police since the back door (through which the police entered) was near the staircase.

Some also think that these plain clothes police are not from CID but from the CNB and if so, they were there to check on drug-abuse rather than gay-sex per se.

[TopChinese]

I think this is a sign that the police is getting gay-unfriendly and will continue in their illict intimidation on the gay community.

Perhaps its time we stick to fxxking at home in private. The time of the saunas may have come and gone.

[Guest visitor]

I think this is a sign that the police is getting gay-unfriendly and will continue in their illict intimidation on the gay community.

Perhaps its time we stick to fxxking at home in private. The time of the saunas may have come and gone.

I dun think so - they are not closing down gay saunas.

Since years ago when gay-saunas started operating, police have occasionally conducted checks on gay-saunas. If their issue is gay-sex, they would have closed down gay-saunas during those checks since the presence of many used condoms would be sufficient ground for them to take drastic actions. But these gay-saunas were allowed to continue to operated despite their various checks and despite them seeing condoms in the premises. So they are not targeting at gay-sex or gays.

[Guest Agares]

Let's be realistic. There's never such thing as a perfectly competent police force. Neither in Singapore is there such a thing as an endless list of operations to attend to.

So there would be quiet days when there's truly nothing to do. In the typical civil servant mentality, some action is necessary to project to superiors that work is actively ongoing. Raiding gay saunas for drugs, illicit activities, or just to maintain the peace for conservative Singaporeans would be a most ideal solution, right?

Such is the result of a pretentious, disgusting society that thinks it's the moral weapon of gods.

[Guest trev]

Let's be realistic. There's never such thing as a perfectly competent police force. Neither in Singapore is there such a thing as an endless list of operations to attend to.

So there would be quiet days when there's truly nothing to do. In the typical civil servant mentality, some action is necessary to project to superiors that work is actively ongoing. Raiding gay saunas for drugs, illicit activities, or just to maintain the peace for conservative Singaporeans would be a most ideal solution, right?

Such is the result of a pretentious, disgusting society that thinks it's the moral weapon of gods.

The following at Trevvy is related to the point above:

Perhaps what is important is to consider what the staff/owner at a sauna should do during police-check (regardless of what motivated the checks - be it personal agenda or otherwise) so that the harm (e.g. in the form of disturbance which some people in uniform may have personal reason to create) to customers and the sauna is minimised.

[Perhaps the more un-cooperative the sauna staff is, the more the police have reason to create more difficulty and disturbance and thus achieving their personal agenda. Imagine: hypotheticaly some police with some conservative values are frustrated that the government is not going to prosecute gay sex and allow gay-saunas to continue operations. What can these righteous police individuals do within their power? Create some disturbance lor. And if in the process of the operation they can discover reasons to cause more disturbance (i.e. owner obstructing their operation), they could then happily make use of it (e.g. make an arrest on the some legal ground.

Should the staff and owner be as co-operative as possible (so as not to give additional reason for police to create greater disturbance) while at the same time not compromise the welfare of the customers? If so, how to do it? After the police-check, the owner can write a letter to higher authority or Minister to complain about the disturbance caused, especially if such checks are being too frequent and every time nothing criminal (e.g. drug activities) was discovered.

[(gay-sex not counted as gay-sex is only technically a criminal activity but since govt does not want to use S377A because of govt policy (at least base on what they have announced in public, regardless of whatever is real in private) then the individual police with some personal aggenda has no choice but to look for other reasons (e.g. drug abuse, pirated DVD, pxxn DVD etc) if any such righteous police wants to create some problems. I dun think the police want to close saunas even along the line of public sex (i.e. no need 377A - sex in saunas is considered sex in public despite saunas being a private club) since SM Goh mentioned very publicly in Times magazine about the space gays have by citing the examples of gay-saunas in Singapore - such public statements can indirectly mean the govt allows the existence of such "public sex" in gay-saunas.]

[taxme7]

Anyone was at Raw the same night? Keen to share your experiences?

[Guest -james-]

Can anyone confirm if the police did take down particulars of those who didn't manage to leave fast?

[Guest guest]

OS might want to give a full account?

[erection day]

I was at Raw when the 'raid' happened. I wont go as far as to call it a 'raid', more like a look-see look-see. It certainly didnt feel like a raid at all that Friday night at Raw. I was at the TV room engrossed in the programme (I think the telly was showing Crime Watch) when I realised that the area at the back (the barrack area when one have to pay extra for the room) was suddenly very bright. I thought the staff was being hardworking and was probably doing some area cleaning and so paid no heed to it. Soon more people trooped in and I couldnt ignore the urgent whispers and my ear pricked up when I heard the word 'ma tah' or police being tossed around. Apparently they were in the premises conducting some search. We waited for minutes for the police to appear but it seemed they were not the least interested in us all. So I went down to the reception area and saw a couple of male officers and a female officer as well (I later learned that there were two female officers) standing near the entrance looking towards the gym area. My immediate guess is that they were after the DVD guy. I stood there for a while and none of them turned and looked at me at all. I went down to the shower and waited out for a while before I went up again. The sense of unease didnt go away. By then, the officers were all gone and the DVD guy was calmly smoking his cigarette. When I went up to the tv room again I saw Max, the owner, giggling as he related to his 'friends' about the incident. There were few variations to the story. Some said they were after the massage guys after a tip-off. Some just said it's just a routine check. Whatever it is, I was glad I was at Raw that night rather than at the more-happening OS. It was certainly happening at OS but not in a good way.

[Andy@Tokyo]

indeed disturbing to even think that police would 'raid' saunas.

Just a wild thought: This might also recruit PLUs policemen who didnt know abt gay saunas to become a sauna patron?

Edited April 28, 2008 by Andy@Tokyo

[Guest straight health centre]

indeed disturbing to even think that police would 'raid' saunas.

Nothing unusual. Such visits by police have been occurring once in a while in gay-saunas. My impression is that many times the police would leave the customers alone and won't disturb them, similar to the report on what happened at RAW just two posts above.

Since the police also do occasional surprise checks at straight health centres and massage parlours, it is not unusual they check gay "health centres"/"saunas" as well.

[Andy@Tokyo]

i dont know... so the message is to get used to them coming once in a while and cont' 'fxxking' while they are ard?

well, there might not be much of a choice.....................

Edited April 28, 2008 by Andy@Tokyo

[ahseng]

I believe it was just routine check.

They were are Thai Disco in china square and golden mile too.

probably checking for drugs and such.

Just a reminder, when lights on, stop doing the acts andput on a towel

[taxme7]

Erection Day>> thanks for the update...

[Guest Guest]

Raid is good. practise makes perfect...next time 17 noe how to react LOL.

[krude]

why sld we get overly excited over a spa raid? we noe that this is not a normal spa. it is where gays go for sex.

dont cry gay kenna penalised just because of a spa raid. dont the police raid illegal massuer-cum sex hses and illegal pros? does that mean they are penalising the straight population? LOL

if our aj spa is catered for clean services and it gets raided, i will voice concern but not in this case. If places like ex-defunc Oso gets raided for no reason (apparently its just a ktv place), den I will voice concern.

the gov may give us our own spaces but that doesnt mean we can do all kinds of activities.

i think the crisis we're witnessing is not one of morals,

it's one of personal space and freedom.

maybe you should get your basis right before you start an argument.