At what age, do you give up being in closet and accept yourself?

[keyboard]

on being someone else and living your true self?

The older generation have always stayed closeted and yet this middle generation is going to have to stay closeted till very late and eventually still bring being gay to their graves.

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:44 PM, keyboard said:

on being someone else and living your true self?

The older generation have always stayed closeted and yet this middle generation is going to have to stay closeted till very late and eventually still bring being gay to their graves.

what age is this ‘middle generation’ you are talking about and what are you actually talking about or asking? 

[passinthenight]

I think he's talking about being trapped in the closet.

Just come out when you feel comfortable or just stay where you are.

Don't stress the small stuff because it ain't worth it.

[Guest Guest]

He is talking at what age give up sex cause when one person grow old he cannot get hard.

[keyboard]

Yes, the topic of being in the closet.

Like some people are able to surf gay websites without having to go incognito mode or bring their partners home to meet their parents.

[auscent]

At the age I dont give a damn about what others thought. I would have come out earlier to those who mattered and could accept my sexuality.

[doncoin]

Came out to my family over 20 years ago. So never have to deal with the pressure and stupid questions about girlfriends etc. It's more of "are you using condoms?" from my mum.  

[keyboard]

Do still feel pretty trapped, when the older generation still holds on to their thoughts and by the time they die, your life starts at 70-80.

[Guest Wrong Creation]

When I was 13 and knew that I was different from other boys.   I felt a part of my life was already dead. 

[singalion]

On 12/13/2021 at 6:21 PM, Guest Wtf said:

what age is this ‘middle generation’ you are talking about and what are you actually talking about or asking? 

 

Let me interpret his post:

 

He is talking until what age do guys in Singapore prefer to stay closeted, don't tell their parents, siblings, eventually the colleagues, they are gay.

 

He thinks that older generation (Pioneer) always was closeted while some of the middle generation (which I would interpret as 40 to 60 y age range) are open at home but the vast majority still closeted and suffering the impertinent questions of relatives every year when finally they are going to marry or present a girl friend at least so that the relatives can be relieved...

 

 

 

[singalion]

On 12/16/2021 at 2:04 PM, Guest Wrong Creation said:

When I was 13 and knew that I was different from other boys.   I felt a part of my life was already dead. 

 

Then, you never learned how to enjoy your life...

 

Boys at the age of 13 should be talking more about gameboy then a game boy.

 

 

[singalion]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:46 PM, keyboard said:

Do still feel pretty trapped, when the older generation still holds on to their thoughts and by the time they die, your life starts at 70-80.

 

Nobody asks you to follow their steps.

Maybe you waste some thought whey this generation kept it as a secret until the grave.

 

Surely, the embarrassment after an arrest was not helping to come out of the closet earlier...

 

 

[singalion]

What I personally would suggest to guys in Singapore:

 

Around the age of 35 you should be able to come out at least to your parents.

At least the parents know you are not a psycho if you don't bring any girls home.

 

Most parents might be disappointed or disapprove but from my experience, mostly after a certain time they will realise, you won't change and will

(some maybe silently) accept it.

 

But it clears some air.

 

What I don't recommend is to come out at the work or to straight friends.

The view on gays is still largely too negative that I would risk any backlash from having outed myself.

 

Surely, there are some professions or companies where it doesn't matter as much, if or if not.

But overall I still see it as too risky, in particular, in smaller set ups to come out as a gay at the workplace.

 

The gossiping culture is just still too prevalent in Singapore.

At company lunches often I just have to close my ears or I will outburst with that; "Oh come on!" when listening to all that gossiping.

 

But it is not just the gossiping, that is negative in the work life but your work attitude might be viewed differently if you have outed yourself.

 

 

 

[Guest Wrong Creation]

On 12/16/2021 at 2:17 PM, singalion said:

 

Then, you never learned how to enjoy your life...

 

Boys at the age of 13 should be talking more about gameboy then a game boy.

 

 

Not that easy.  I knew at a very young innocent age, that I will never be able to lead a "normal" life unlike many people around me and there is only a forseeable unwilling destination in a matter of time that I will have a confront as time passes.  Regardless how many materialistic dreams you have or have not achieved, and how successful or unsuccessful you have made it thus far,   that feelings of being incomplete and lacking remains, as and when I was thinking about it at the age of 13yo.   It never seems to go away and drew even nearer and nearer with each passing years.    There is no way you can unthink what is unthinkable. 

[Steve5380]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:04 AM, Guest Wrong Creation said:

When I was 13 and knew that I was different from other boys.   I felt a part of my life was already dead. 

 

Since you are posting here, you are still alive.  And the part of you which "died" at 13 can easily resurrect.

 

In today's world it is universally known that homosexuality is not a "Wrong Creation" but simply a less common natural way of being.

In today's world women have demonstrated that they are not necessarily inferior to men,  and gays are demonstrating that they are not inferior to straights.

 

Discretion is always advised. Straights don't go around proclaiming that they are straight, and so gays should not go around proclaiming that they are gay.

Therefore a "coming out" should not be a one time important event.  Prudence should be our guidance.  Our efforts should not be to liberate ourselves from a "closet" but to protect us from the malevolence of those who like to put people down.   Very few people need to know of our sexual orientation, the same as we usually don't care at all of the sexual orientation of others.   In an environment where malevolent people may attack us,  we can always shield ourselves in a status of "bisexual".  So many apparently very manly men have also homosexual experiences!   And for those attackers who claim that they would never be intimate with a man,  the proper answer is:  "you are so ugly and unattractive that only women may agree to have sex with you,  but no man would touch you with a 10 foot pole" 

[Guest Oh really????????]

On 12/16/2021 at 11:46 PM, Steve5380 said:

Very few people need to know of our sexual orientation, the same as we usually don't care at all of the sexual orientation of others.   In an environment where malevolent people may attack us,  we can always shield ourselves in a status of "bisexual". 

If only reality is so easy and simple as the way you say it.

[Steve5380]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:04 AM, Guest Oh really???????? said:

If only reality is so easy and simple as the way you say it.

 

I say it as simple as I feel it.  If you try it, you can also successfully tone down the relevance of sexual orientation.  Why should it be so important?  If it is for your family, this is their karma,  it does not need to be important for you.  Try to cultivate your strengths, and if you erroneously see homosexuality as a weakness, make this less important.  If you can become as successful as Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, then you don't need to care about being gay. 

[cityhallguy]

I chose to come out to my family at age 25. it was a family drama that year as my parents was planning to divorce, so I I told them, I am gay and just want to come out from closet before they split (but they never 🙄). My mum is someone like to make small issues to like a TVB family drama level. 
 

At first my parents, thought I was just sick and consulted our family doctor without me knowing. For me after coming out and family drama over, I brought my bf and few of my close gay friends, to come home meet my parents. The purpose of me doing that was to let my parents knows gay are just as normal as others and not necessary all gay are “Ah gua” (feminine/girly type). So my mum have seen and know all my overseas gay friends and she became more curious about them too. Such as asking me how are they doing, what are they doing , Bla bla….

 

My parents most worried are when local SG news came out with negative gay image news, like gay love murderer or gay blackmailing married men…

My mum will say to me, if your love relationship don’t work out, don’t go murder the guy or do something crazy.. I always reply to mum yah no worries and my dates mostly all overseas so the chances are low. 

 

Also, my parents are quite traditional Singapore Chinese culture, ask me to keep my profile low around my other relatives as my parents don’t want them to know. So I told them very simple, I don’t meet or see them lor, so every CNY I go out with my friends to catch CNY movies and didn’t go visit relatives with my parents. If relatives ask my parents why I’m not getting married, they said I like to play around more and often traveling can’t settle down. What my parents reply are true too as I always fly around work/leisure’s and meet overseas hookup 😂 so means play around.

Even 5 years ago, I chose to move to NZ, my parents know why I want to and they accepted. I had told them the reason I wanted to study higher qualification and work for high pay jobs. That allowed me to save enough money so that I can move out of SG and live the life I wanted as SG society doesn’t accept LGBTQI into their community. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by cityhallguy

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, cityhallguy said:

I chose to come out to my family at age 25. it was a family drama that year as my parents was planning to divorce, so I told them before you guys decided to do it. I told them, I am gay and just want to come out from closet before they split (but they never 🙄). My mum is someone like to make small issues to like a TVB family drama. 
 

At first my parents, thought I was just sick and consulted our family doctor without me knowing. For me after coming out and family drama over, I brought my bf and few of my close gay friends, to come home meet my parents. The purpose of me doing that was to let my parents knows gay are just as normal as others and not necessary all gay are “Ah gua” (feminine/girly type). So my mum have seen and know all my overseas gay friends and she became more curious about them too. Such as asking me how are they doing, what are they doing , Bla bla….

 

My parents most worried are when local SG news came out with negative gay image news, like gay love murderer or gay blackmailing married men…

My mum will say to me, if your love relationship don’t work out, don’t go murder the guy or do something crazy.. I always reply to mum yah no worries and my dates mostly all overseas so the chances are low. 

 

Also, my parents are quite traditional Singapore Chinese culture, ask me to keep my profile low around my other relatives as my parents don’t want them to know. So I told them very simple, I don’t meet or see them lor, so every CNY I go out with my friends to catch CNY movies and didn’t go visit relatives with my parents. If relatives ask my parents why I’m not getting married, they said I like to play around more and often traveling can’t settle down. What my parents reply are true too as I always fly around work/leisure’s and meet overseas hookup 😂 so means play around.

Even 5 years ago, I chose to move to NZ, my parents know why I want to and they accepted. I had told them the reason I wanted to study higher qualification and work for high pay jobs. That allowed me to save enough money so that I can move out of SG and live the life I wanted as SG society doesn’t accept LGBTQI into their community. 

Wow! Totally inspirational! 👏 

[Guest Come what.....out?]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, cityhallguy said:

I chose to come out to my family at age 25.

 

Wow!!!  you really come out.  As for me, I don't have to come out, because my voice, my gesture and my movement speaks louder than coming out.  I believed, the world also knew I am gay without needing to come out of the closet.

[keyboard]

It's really good that your parents are supportive and even made the effort to learn more about it. There are some who are still harping on their children to get married so they don't die alone in the future.

[singalion]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:15 PM, Guest Wrong Creation said:

Not that easy.  I knew at a very young innocent age, that I will never be able to lead a "normal" life unlike many people around me and there is only a forseeable unwilling destination in a matter of time that I will have a confront as time passes.  Regardless how many materialistic dreams you have or have not achieved, and how successful or unsuccessful you have made it thus far,   that feelings of being incomplete and lacking remains, as and when I was thinking about it at the age of 13yo.   It never seems to go away and drew even nearer and nearer with each passing years.    There is no way you can unthink what is unthinkable. 

 

Regret to write here, you sound a bit like a 13 year old Amos Yee.

 

What 13 year old child has such philosophical thoughts?

 

Unless you are handicapped but by what means would a 13 year old child "philosoph" about the issue whether it can lead a normal life.

 

I never felt incomplete in my life for being gay. Why should I ? What do you lack?

 

Not being able to love a woman?

Not conceiving a child? it could have happened that I never married or got any women pregnant also, so what?

I don't see other areas where gays would be incomplete compared to a straight guy?

Straight guys do suffer erectile dysfunction also, if that is the issue, then what are you lacking?

 

Maybe you are a minority and in that sense out of the norm in being gay and not feeling any attraction to the other sex. But? What's the problem?

Face it. Live up to it.

 

your way of thinking too negative clouds your happiness. Start to live happily and accept who you are and what sexual orientation you have.

It is not you who has the issue, but the society who judges you as "abnormal".

 

 

 

[And then]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:37 AM, cityhallguy said:

I chose to come out to my family at age 25. it was a family drama that year as my parents was planning to divorce, so I I told them, I am gay and just want to come out from closet before they split (but they never 🙄). My mum is someone like to make small issues to like a TVB family drama level. 
 

Good on you!

Imagine, if somehow, one day, every LGBTI person were to come out of the closet together, the wider society will have to change their attitudes towards us. We are everywhere. We are not just some demonized characters in news reports or dramas.

[cityhallguy]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:30 PM, And then said:

Good on you!

Imagine, if somehow, one day, every LGBTI person were to come out of the closet together, the wider society will have to change their attitudes towards us. We are everywhere. We are not just some demonized characters in news reports or dramas.

My own view here so believe will get lots of bombard and disagreements with me :).

The media and communications technologies such as internet, social media are now so advance that new generation can access overseas stories, news, movies, drama, the SG young generation knowing the LGBTQI existence and is part of society and community.

From what I perceive, the young generation are ok with us and have no problems with us in the community.

On the other hand, the SG society has a strong tradition conservative cultures and laws such as Section 377A that against LGBTQI, religious that don’t acknowledge LGBTQI existence. These are the issues that causes SG society for not accepting us with open arms.

If only SG government could step in and support and let the SG society known that is a norm in society to have LGBTQI. However, SG government threw the ball to the SG society to chose their stance support or against LGBTQI.  I understand why the government do so as the government doesn’t want to disrupt the current peacefulness and afraid of big riot which might be caused by the society from the religious? anti-LGBTQI?  
 

Do I think is fair? Of course not! So isn’t it wrong? Well, not really too? why?

Most goverment makes decision based on Utilitarianism. It is a family of normative ethical theories that prescribe actions that maximize happiness and well-being for all affected individuals. In other words, the government decide their decision based on the greatest good to the greatest number. So I respect SG government after all they really did a good hell of job to develop SG so well and you can’t disagree with it. But giving my respect to them doesn’t mean I agree, so I decided to live outside of SG. I am keeping my citizenship because I still have ties with my families and also agreed with my parents that I will still hold on to the citizenship just won’t be staying SG too long. My mum believes in Chinese say 生在那，就死在那。Anyway, I just be respectful to them.
 

I will only see the day where LGBTQI can be acceptable in SG when SG government is lead by a body that hold virtue values of justice, fairness, love and honesty or a human rights law established. In NZ, the government is not always governed by the same party (left wing or right wing), the left wing always represent the people of blue color and into people welfare, whereas the right wing always represent the white color and into economy growth. So the left wing always support LGBTQI, nevertheless, there’s always human right law to protect all diversity people whether you are straight, gay, lesbian, trans or whatever you call yourself, the Human rights will always ensure your right is protected. 

[tomcat]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:44 PM, keyboard said:

At what age, do you give up on being someone else and living your true self? The older generation have always stayed closeted and yet this middle generation is going to have to stay closeted till very late and eventually still bring being gay to their graves.

 

I knew I was "different" from probably age 5 or 6. That is Kindergarten age, and I think this self-awareness was critical to my growth.

I decided to live under the radar until I was in NS. That was after my first same sex r/s in poly, and where I truly felt I had my own autonomy.

Where I felt strong enough to not hide, even if I was not telling everyone I was gay - I admitted first to myself and was at least honest in that way.

 

But my whole journey has been to prove to my family and others, that I am the best student, the best son, the best citizen, the best soldier.

My family finally came to understand when I exceed their expectations fully. And they began to change how they viewed me.

That it was not in spite of my orientation, but because of it.

 

I am all those successes because I am gay.  Being gay is not weak. Or guniang or bapok. I showed them strength many times when others lack or were afraid.

They finally understand my strength, resilience, dependability is because I am a gay person growing up. I believe til today my parents are proud of me.

They may not understand what my life is like as a gay person, but they respect and support me. Even my partner, when we have our difficulties.

They respect what I tell them, and they treat me as an equal, because I have far exceeded their own definitions of success.

 

I earned my own money from age 21. Put myself through poly.

I moved out at 24 - worked and earned my keep.

I worked my way through University - balance studies, work, getting scholarship, totally self-funded. graduated first class honours.

I built a stable career and retired at 36.

I share a domestic life and harmonious existence with my partner of 11 years.

 

There were only a handful of times when my Higher Self spoke to me so loudly and clearly, and one of the times was as a teen, it said:
 

"What a waste of your Life, to live and die without ever truly being seen. Your mother will die without ever truly knowing who your are.

Is this how you honour your Life? Don't you know it is a gift?"

 

And since then, I never forget this revelation. Even if people spit on me, call me names, hate me or abuse me, I will always live an authentic life. Even if my body is torn apart, or my soul ravaged, I will choose to be my authentic self. Because to do otherwise is nothing but a shame and a waste. And the highest disrespect to yourself and your creator. 

 

There is nothing - absolutely zero nothing - wrong with being gay. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by tomcat

[tomcat]

...

Edited December 18, 2021 by tomcat

[singalion]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:44 PM, cityhallguy said:

If only SG government could step in and support and let the SG society known that is a norm in society to have LGBTQI. However, SG government threw the ball to the SG society to chose their stance support or against LGBTQI.  I understand why the government do so as the government doesn’t want to disrupt the current peacefulness and afraid of big riot which might be caused by the society from the religious? anti-LGBTQI?  

 

You really think there would be riots?

 

Don't think so.

 

Second Singapore claims to be a secular state.

Are religions then ruling into the secular setting??? Since when?

 

I don't think religion is the hindrance but the change of stance in other areas which may be more problematic:

 

Censorship guidelines

Education

Prioritising marriage

...

 

 

 

 

[mate69]

People in SG too money-minded and mercenary to wanna waste time to riot over these kind of things

All they care about is $$$$$$$$ and making more $$$$$$$

Anything else, if it doesn't affect them directly, they can't be bothered, tbh

[cityhallguy]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:50 AM, mate69 said:

People in SG too money-minded and mercenary to wanna waste time to riot over these kind of things

All they care about is $$$$$$$$ and making more $$$$$$$

Anything else, if it doesn't affect them directly, they can't be bothered, tbh

 

On 12/18/2021 at 8:57 PM, singalion said:

 

You really think there would be riots?

 

Don't think so.

 

Second Singapore claims to be a secular state.

Are religions then ruling into the secular setting??? Since when?

 

I don't think religion is the hindrance but the change of stance in other areas which may be more problematic:

 

Censorship guidelines

Education

Prioritising marriage

...

 

 

 

 

In SG, anyone one or a body protested means causing problems to the society/other group of people, therefore, SG never allow protest unlike some other countries, people have the right to protest. SG government do so is to prevent any small protests to a big fight. 

Also when people repeal section 377A, some religious weren’t happy about it and expressed their unhappiness on the media.

I put religious as one of the hindrance and of course there’re many other issues. I read a research article about SG has strong Asian moral and religious culture that not able to accept LGBTQI as part of the community, when I did a a write out about SG and LGBTQI in my perspective. 
Also make things clear, I’m not referring to Pinkdot event as Pinkdot is an organize and great event to let the society know that we are the same as others, love is love. 
 

Edited December 19, 2021 by cityhallguy

[Steve5380]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:50 AM, mate69 said:

People in SG too money-minded and mercenary to wanna waste time to riot over these kind of things

All they care about is $$$$$$$$ and making more $$$$$$$

Anything else, if it doesn't affect them directly, they can't be bothered, tbh

 

This is my impression too.

 

SG is governed by a plutocracy who keeps its population at bay with some semi-totalitarianism. 

It gives religion much importance not because it is a religious government but because it adheres to the saying "religion is the opium of the people".

 

Much of the SG population is religious and conservative.  They are partly at fault by not wanting to see reality.  But the bulk of the blame should fall on the organized religions, who condemn non traditional sexual orientations in their doctrine,  and even if they now realize that this is condemnation is false,  they preserve this false doctrine to save face and to avoid antagonizing the believers who became homophobic because of their preaching.

 

So the big change should come from the organized religions.  It seems that Catholicism is moving a little in this direction thanks to Pope Francis.

[Guest GUEST]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:50 AM, mate69 said:

People in SG too money-minded and mercenary to wanna waste time to riot over these kind of things

All they care about is $$$$$$$$ and making more $$$$$$$

Anything else, if it doesn't affect them directly, they can't be bothered, tbh

having more money and making more money is very important in SG. Standard of living in SG is so high. Housing is so high also.

[mith]

im 50 n still in the closet. i didnt think much about it. but i reckon it will be liberating coming out!

[Guest No Closet to hide]

On 12/22/2021 at 8:55 AM, mith said:

im 50 n still in the closet. i didnt think much about it. but i reckon it will be liberating coming out!

You mean you are not yet liberated, whether in or out of closet? Your idea of liberation is suffocating.   

 

Some people don't have to come out of the closet.  They are already seen from their outside.

[Guest Not OUT]

Accepting oneself does not mean must come out.

I've accepted myself but I'm not out.

 

 

[tomcat]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:14 PM, Guest Not OUT said:

Accepting oneself does not mean must come out.

I've accepted myself but I'm not out.

so if someone asks if you are gay? or why you have no gf or wife? do you lie or tell them the truth?

 

if it is the first, then you obviously have not accepted yourself, despite what you convince yourself.

 

you still benefit from the safety and protection of pretending to be a straight person in society.

 

this is the real truth : Who you are does not change depending on who is asking.

 

as long as your answer is divided, you are still torn between who you really are, and who you want others to see you as. 

 

it's not that complicated.

[Steve5380]

On 12/23/2021 at 10:14 PM, Guest Not OUT said:

 

Accepting oneself does not mean must come out.

I've accepted myself but I'm not out.

 

 

I think you are absolutely right.  There is no relationship between accepting one's orientation and coming out.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 3:41 AM, tomcat said:

so if someone asks if you are gay? or why you have no gf or wife? do you lie or tell them the truth?

 

if it is the first, then you obviously have not accepted yourself, despite what you convince yourself.

 

you still benefit from the safety and protection of pretending to be a straight person in society.

 

this is the real truth : Who you are does not change depending on who is asking.

 

as long as your answer is divided, you are still torn between who you really are, and who you want others to see you as. 

 

it's not that complicated.

 

There are questions that we may consider personal, and we have a perfect right not to answer them.   But depending on who is asking, we may not be able to withhold an answer.  In this situation, protecting ourselves should take priority.  We may find ways to dodge the question "are you gay?" with humor:   "If I were gay, I would not tell even my mother".  If the person insists in getting the answer, and we don't want to come out,  it is perfectly correct to say "NO".   

 

If we are not 100% gay but have a minute attraction to women too,  then we can rationalize internally:   " I am not gay, I am bisexual,  ha ha".

 

We can do this while we completely accept our gayness, like it,  enjoy it, and are proud of it.

[doncoin]

Part of accepting yourself as a gay man is to let go of the shame instilled in you by others. Shame can be very crippling, leading you to hide your authentic self.

 

We are not responsible for how others think or feel. We have zero control over them. What we have control over is ourselves. Live our authentic truth. Be the best version of who you are. People may gossip, and you cannot stop them from talking.  

 

There will be situations where you as a gay man will threaten their sense of the world, and these people will try and force you to conform to their world or religious view. The important thing is to be you. Accept that there will be assholes who think and believe their way of life is the only way, and minimize contact with such people. 

 

When you value and respect yourself and do not let the judgments of other people affect or bother you, you will find that you will be much happier.  

[Gozu]

Hi, agree that most enjoy carefree singlehood while young. Wonder what happened if a senior citizen changed his mind? Possible to engage into a LTR? Anyone came across any living example or sucess story?  

[Why?]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gozu said:

Hi, agree that most enjoy carefree singlehood while young. Wonder what happened if a senior citizen changed his mind? Possible to engage into a LTR? Anyone came across any living example or sucess story?  

It was similar to asking us to estimate how many shooting stars will be seen in the sky each night.

[derryfawne]

21 (by Adele)