Ren Ci

[erection day]

Was watching the charity show just now and was a liitle sad that shifu didnt manage to complete his mammoth task this year. Due to some entanglement of the wire, he was unable to scale his way to the top of the tower. Dissappointment was written all over his face but I am sure all who are watching the show are behind him and his cause all the way. Do support Ren Ci- one of the most worthy charity cause in Spore.

[Nwest]

HE did his BEST and I think he is COOL. No need to be sorry . I will still call even he din complete .

[chub77]

i think shifu has really done his best and i really admire his determination and courage.. he keep saying "sorry" to the viewers, but we should actually say sorry to him for letting him do such stunts, but still did not donate....

anyway, he has really done his best and not every one has this kind of strength, even for a professional athlete...

[oralb]

i admired his courage, while the stunts that he did were properly check to prevent accidents, you got to give it to him for his determination.

take the walking down the suntec city for instance, safety precaution were put to the max, but the sheer will of looking down and walked down was amazing.

[serendipity]

I am indeed touched by the Reverend's stunt.

He has certainly lived up to the name of being benevolent and compassionate.

[GuyIntoOralFun]

尽力就好,我们感受到他的毅力和诚意.就是圆满.没有完成壮

[Guest Guest]

another pretentious act of charity.... where all the $$$ goes ??? monk drives merc, wear rolex and luxury office ????

[Guest Guest]

another pretentious act of charity.... where all the $$$ goes ??? monk drives merc, wear rolex and luxury office ????

I do not agree to your statement. Yes, it is true to a certain and minority group but that doesn't mean it represent the whole structure. We shall not target any religion as per say. Please be discreet.

[azuchan]

firstly, let me say that as a monk, whatever he uses day by day is given as offering. meaning that the rolex he used to wear was not bought by him, but given to him. the merc he sits in and the chauffer who drives the merc is not bought and employed by him. it was given to him by ren ci hospital. contrary to popular belief, ren ci hospital is not under ven.'s name, but by someone else. the person's name escapes my mind right now.

therefore, you have to look at the bigger picture before you make such sweeping statements. one nkf does not mean that all welfare organisations are frauds.

[Frogprince]

I think we should give him some credit. People put in hard work to raise money, it's not easy to achieve what he had done these pass years. I dun think i will want to do those things even if u give me money. So i hope that we should take it with an open heart and stop being cynical.

[Guest Guest]

another pretentious act of charity.... where all the $$$ goes ??? monk drives merc, wear rolex and luxury office ????

I hope u ain't referring to ren ci!? if so, I'm sure many will be dissappointed, if not disgusted!

I rem him proclaiming tat the bulk of donations will be used for the patients and tat they are most transparent with all their takings and givings! I still tink he deserves our benefit of doubt....at least for now!

[Guest Guest]

I think we should give him some credit. People put in hard work to raise money, it's not easy to achieve what he had done these pass years. I dun think i will want to do those things even if u give me money. So i hope that we should take it with an open heart and stop being cynical.

tis is a "dangerous" thinking....pls no more history repeating!

[Guest Guest]

Rolex and Merc are status symbol. It is ostentatious and showy and not exactly in the spirit of benevolence. A monk, to my understanding, takes a vow of poverty, simplicity and chastity. Wearing Rolex and sitting in a Merc and working from a 'luxurious' office is not exactly monkish business. Hence, I agree that he is pretentious.

[azuchan]

Rolex and Merc are status symbol. It is ostentatious and showy and not exactly in the spirit of benevolence. A monk, to my understanding, takes a vow of poverty, simplicity and chastity. Wearing Rolex and sitting in a Merc and working from a 'luxurious' office is not exactly monkish business. Hence, I agree that he is pretentious.

Do you know that a monk cannot refuse any offering given to him? If a person were to offer a Rolex for him to wear, a Merc for his transport, and a driver to chauffer him around, it would be against the vows of being a monk to refuse it.

Do you know that monks are not supposed to handle money? Do you know that as lay practitioners we are not supposed to give them monetary offerings? Do you know that as monks they are not supposed to eat after noon? Do you know that monks are allowed to keep their hair up to a certain length? Do you know that if a monk is offered meat, he cannot refuse it and has to eat everything he is offered? Do you know that monks are not supposed to watch TV, listen to radio, read magazines, play games, i.e. all forms of entertainment are not allowed?

I don't think so. To equate branded goods as status symbols is misinformed. In order to understand where Ming Yi Fa Shi is coming from, please read up and understand the Vinaya (also known as Monk's Vows).

Ming Yi Fa Shi is a Mahayana monk. Mahayana means to attain enlightenment in order to be of benefit to all sentient beings. He has to follow some more practices, apart from keeping the monk's vows. One of this is skillful means. If working from an office, overseeing the administration of Ren Ci Hospital, doing some of the stunts by himself so that he knows what the artistes are going through, et.c brings benefits to many people, that is skillful means. He did not break any vows. Therefore he is not pretentious.

To tell you the truth, I have personally met Ming Yi Fa Shi, when I did some volunteer work at Ren Ci Hospital. He personally goes gown to talk to the patients, comforts, helps out the nurses sometimes, does prayers for those who are on the verge of death, etc. And when I met him, during the very short meeting, he always says that there is so much more he wants to do for these patients, but because of human limitations, he cannot do it. And he says it with lots of regret.

Up to you to decide. I'm not defending Ming Yi Fa Shi. I'm just stating the facts. If you think Ming Yi Fa Shi is a fraud, then go ahead and come up with the evidence. If you don't have any evidence, then shut up. A PERSON IS ALWAYS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

[Guest Guest]

Wouldn't it be better to sell the Rolex, Mercedes, etc and use the proceeds to help the needy?

[azuchan]

It is not his, therefore he cannot sell it off. Also, he has to consider the feelings of the person who offered the Rolex and Merc. As a human being, if I were to sell off something expensive which you gave me, for whatever reason, how would you feel?

Ming Yi Fa Shi is a monk, but he is human first. He also has feelings and things to think about. He has to spare a thought for human relations too.

[Guest Guest]

I didn't know he was the son of one of my colleagues until that was mentioned to me by another colleague. The resemblance between father and son is very strong, but that was all because the father was deeply disappointed, almost in grief. I didn't want to ask why because I felt it was too personal.

[Guest Guest]

azuchan, when X gives something to Y, this means this thing now belongs to Y. So when you give something to a monk, it becomes the property of the monk. So the monk is perfectly free to dispose of it however he wants.

If the devotees are sincere in their beliefs, I'm sure they will be happy to see the monk sell their gifts to raise money for the needy.

[azuchan]

Exactly. But still we as normal people also have feelings. Even if it's the property of the monk, how would the person giving the offering feel if the monk immediately sold the offerings?

Not all devotees are understanding. Only those who really study Buddhism will know and understand this kind of things. What about those who don't? They form the majority. They are still clinging on to "face". They will feel they lost face because their offerings are sold off just like that.

[Guest Guest]

Which is more important: helping 1 devotee save face, or helping 100 starving orphans?

[azuchan]

Both are equally important, in Mahayana Buddhism. Helping 100 starving orphans means that the orphans would be able to live in more favorable conditions.

But saving the face of one person can mean the preservation of a regular donor, which can help more people in the long term.

Skillful means means not only looking at the immediate suffering, but also the future sufferings, and how to lessen, if not avoid, them.

[Guest KARMA]

Ming Yi Fai Shi has done a good work every yr, tell me which head of the orgn will come out and risk his life like what MIng Yi Fai Shi did.

i personally attended his buddhist course before and have a word with him, he is a very sincere person. he will always have my respect.

[erection day]

Hey guys, I'm sure there are more to the show in term of contribution than just the shifu's. I thought the trapeze act by resident hunks Vincent, Ix Shen and Adam highly watchable. You can always count on these guys to appear on every charity shows. Bravo! Esp Ix whom we seldom see on tv nowadays but he is always a regular contributor in charity work.

[Guest Bhikkus Rules]

It is interesting to read the exchanges of thoughts between azuchan and guest. Each has their own merits, and both made good commentary.

It is easy for lay people, people like you and me, to see what we want to see without deep understanding of the situation. We often concentrate on the outcome, and being a human, we are quick to make certain assumption/judgement/appraisal/condemnations. We are not wrong to adopt those thoughts but we must admit that we do not have enough understanding on the issue.

Sometimes, as lay people [the devotees], the respect and gratitude they want to express to the monks [which should be to the temple] are converted into material forms. Such an act actually puts a monk into a precarious stituation. There is a rule that stated, "the question of whether or not it is best to express one's refusal outwardly lies beyond the scope of the monk, and often depends on the situation. Ideally, one should inform the donor so that he or she will know enough not to present such gifts in the future, but there are also cases where the donor is still new to the idea of rules and will simply be offended if the monk objects to what he or she means as a well-intentioned gesture. This is thus a matter where a monk should use his discretion".

At the end of that quote, "should use his discretion" is yet another act all together. Here, the monk must understand his role, his presence and his reverence. In buddhism, a monk may receive gifts made out to them [but it needs to be endorsed] and can make use of the gifts.

There is always two sides of the coin.

[Guest Guest]

firstly, let me say that as a monk, whatever he uses day by day is given as offering. meaning that the rolex he used to wear was not bought by him, but given to him. the merc he sits in and the chauffer who drives the merc is not bought and employed by him. it was given to him by ren ci hospital. contrary to popular belief, ren ci hospital is not under ven.'s name, but by someone else. the person's name escapes my mind right now.

therefore, you have to look at the bigger picture before you make such sweeping statements. one nkf does not mean that all welfare organisations are frauds.

to avoid gossip, a monk sld know how to accept gifts and convert the gifts to benefits the others and not just for him alone.

he sld also tell whoever offering the gifts to convert it to donation instead.

if ren ci hospital is raising fund for its operation, then since u said that the gifts are from the hosp itself...then where did the hospital get the money to buy the watch and merc?

i will only donate direct to the family rather than to an organisation which part of ur donation will go to their ops.

[Guest PSS]

There is always Gossip no matter how noble you are, if they don't like you, they can always find something to stir up the flame. To you maybe the watch is ex & the car is branded, but to him maybe nothing different, is just a watch & a car, just depends you look at it.

You have your view & you have the right, just matter which angle you look at it.

[Guest Guest_Shaberu]

Well, I did not watch renci but my impression of the shifu is; is he a celebrity monk? If my memory did not fail me, he cried at the task he failed. I am a Buddhist in some way and I know monk should not have emotion. Yes, we are human unless you are an enlightened monk. I donated not because of the tears from his eyes but the people I sincerely wanted to help. Don’t listen too much, just do what you think it is right. If you think what you heard is more important than what think it is right to say then be it?!!!

[azuchan]

I believe that Ming Yi Fa Shi is really compassionate. so much so that he willingly agreed to do those stunts himself. No one asked him to do it. When it was first started, please remember that it was Fa Shi who wanted to do the stunts.

What the hospital does with the money is of course our concern. However, you do realize that Ren Ci has always been the most transparent welfare organization in Singapore. Every single cent has been accounted for. Even though not every cent goes to the patients, they are still accounted for in terms of bills, gifts, etc. These gifts are all within the limits of the guidelines given by NCSS, if I'm not wrong. And I'm confident enough to say that the Rolex he used to wear was a personal donation, and the Merc he is chauffeured in is paid in small installments over the COE period. This means everything is within means.

Oh, another thing: if the charity cannot carry out their daily operations, do you think that they will be of any benefit to the patients? If Ren Ci were to "close shop" because they could not maintain their operations, how many more needy people would there be?

Don't think that everything is "embezzled". Even we as normal people, if we can stretch our money to the max, can be chauffeur driven everyday in a nice car. Even we salarymen can own branded goods, if we know how to. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean that others cannot.

Shaberu: Monks, no matter what, will have emotions. Even happiness is an emotion. Even no feeling is an emotion. Therefore, no matter what, you cannot say that monks are not supposed to have emotions. That is what makes us human.

Shifu is not a celebrity monk. Most of the year he keeps a low profile, giving teachings once in a while. I saw him cry and I felt that he cried because he felt he disappointed us by not completing the stunt. That was why he kept apologizing.

[maturemedium]

Impernamence....

Buhdda held a handful of leaves in one of his hand n told his followers: " The truth is in his hand, why bother to go to jungle to look for it."

Just thought...

[Guest Guest]

another pretentious act of charity.... where all the $$$ goes ??? monk drives merc, wear rolex and luxury office ????

I hope u ain't referring to ren ci!? if so, I'm sure many will be dissappointed, if not disgusted!

I rem him proclaiming tat the bulk of donations will be used for the patients and tat they are most transparent with all their takings and givings! I still tink he deserves our benefit of doubt....at least for now!

how transparnet is the fund being used... so far nobody knows..... and the salary they draws, they highly paid also :swear:

[GachiMuchi]

Bring out your proof Guest, otherwise it is called slander.

[Lungker]

I believe that Ming Yi Fa Shi is really compassionate. so much so that he willingly agreed to do those stunts himself.

I know that about two years ago, during the big hoo-ha about NKF, the Straits Times revealed that this stunt performing monk was being paid $15,000 a month.

Actually for only a few hundreds dollars a month, many of our foreign workers are taking similar risks with far less safety equipments building our skyscrapers. I am also seriously hoping those who contribute to this charity becuase of the supposedly risk taken by the monk are not insisting their maids clean their windows without appropriate safety equipments. Just a comparison if you may.

Speaking strictly for myself, a staunch buddhist, I am of the view that this monk did what he did and earning what he earned simply because he felt that is his way to get more contributions to his charity. A writer to the Straits Times forum today described it as emtional blackmail. I agree with him but I also agree that it is a uniquely Singaporean way, and very effective too, to raise money for charity.

Let us all be clear on this. There is no risk to the life of the monk during ALL his stunts. It may be scary and uncomfortable for him but he will not die doing it. The safety equipments protecting him is probably strong enough to hold ten Bangladeshi workers.

Go ahead and shed tears for him but remember to contribute as much as you can. That is what he is trying to get people to do for his charity. So many people will wait until he started on his stunt to call in and pledge. He is so effective at pulling in contributions during his stunts perhaps he should do it more often. Ren Ci Hospital will be in a much better position to help the poor if he does that.

:hat: :smokin:

[Guest Guest]

Well, I did not watch renci but my impression of the shifu is; is he a celebrity monk? If my memory did not fail me, he cried at the task he failed. I am a Buddhist in some way and I know monk should not have emotion. Yes, we are human unless you are an enlightened monk. I donated not because of the tears from his eyes but the people I sincerely wanted to help. Don’t listen too much, just do what you think it is right. If you think what you heard is more important than what think it is right to say then be it?!!!

I agreed with you !

Follow your heart, donate if you wish. If you think otherwise, do not force yourself to do so.

Buddhism is about attaining peacefulness in mind by letting go. He cried after the failure. He explained that he had failed the patients and poors. Yes, Ren Ci hospital needs him. No, he did not fail anyone. He has achieved the donations part but why still cry? He further said that the ropes are "not corporative". No, ropes are lifeless. He could have said that he has not been practicing enough, he aimed too high ... and he will train harder and do better next time.

Maybe, there's still a human in him whom has not let go.

[matureman]

We all remember the great man Gandi. He devoted all of his to the faith and he is rewarded to help bring india independance. and respect in history.

I strongly believe and hope Ming Yi Fa Shi should live the kind of live adocating by his faith. Derivating only serve to hurt the ultimate religious belief he is representing.

[Buaya]

Reminds me of a story...

There were once 2 monks on their way to somewhere and on their jorney, they need to cross a small stream. At the stream bank, a lady was attempting to cross the stream without getting wet and dunno who to ask for help. She saw the monks and asked for help and monk 1 carried her across.

Monk 2 saw this, was a little unhappy but kept quiet.

As they walk on, monk 2 got more and more angry thinking about what monk 1 had done and finally decided to ask monk 1 how can he even think about carrying a woman on his back...

Upon the query, monk 1 simply smiled and asked him 1 question...

'I already had let the woman down at the other stream bank, why are you still carrying her?'

Sometimes, we think too much. Who are we to comment? The show is over, he had done what he thinks is right, and his actions speaks louder than his words. Donations are pouring in because people can see what he had did and believed him... Why are we still arguing about it?

Are we going to do anything to help those people he is helping?

He is an ordained man who had vows to keep. If he cannot keep them, then he will generate bad karma for himself. We dun really have to worry so much about him... I am sure he knows for himself whether he is doign anything right...

Anyway, Buddha killed people in his past lives too, but if the intention is the right one, then it is 'karmally' ok...

And for the organization and use of donation money, they did mention that generally, how many percentage of the funds will go to what in the show. I am also sure they will be more than happy to announce them again when asked.

Yes, it is true that once you have negative feelings about something, you will just not like it... Just like there are some people who tried to kill the Buddha more than 2500 years ago and I am very sure if another Buddha is to appear now, there will also be people trying to kill him...

Oh well... Peace and Metta...

[Frogprince]

Since we all do not have prove on any of the above statements, why be so negative about it. Donating to the poor is out of our own will, either you donate through a charity organisation or you can donate to them directly if you want. Charity Organisation is there as a medium for us to reach out to the poor. Why do we have to be so negative and quick to regard others' intention to be bad. While passing negative comment on others, what have you actually done to help? Did you extend your help to raise funds? Did you visit the poor or offer your concern?

If i am poor, i will rather take a bun from the rich whom supposely could have given me more, than someone that only know how to talk but no action.

P/S: Give that monk a break

[oralb]

is he setting a bad preceding for himself?

every year, when the ren ci charity show coming, we are asking what's the monk's stunt will be.

and as mentioned, $$$ only comes in when he started his stunts.

no matter how safe the equipments can be, murphy laws may applies anytime

[Guest Guest]

This monk has previously tried stunts where the organisers know would rake in 'sympathy' money. They (monk included) is conscious of this human frailty. So we (the detractors of this monkish stunt) can't help but feel that there is some element of emotional blackmail by the event organisers. I can't help but feel that the failed stunt was staged for that purpose. Of course there is two sides to a coin. Unfortunately, mine is flipped this (cynical) side.

[Guest Guest_Shaberu]

"Buhdda held a handful of leaves in one of his hand n told his followers: " The truth is in his hand, why bother to go to jungle to look for it."

Well, all we have to know is the leaves he is holding, why go to the jungle for trees?!!!

[Guest Guest_Shaberu]

Sometime, we wish to have a leaf. When walking into the jungle, we choose the tree for the leaf we wanted. Instead, we get the tree but not the leaf. If you want the leaf just choose the leaf but not the tree.

[maturemedium]

A senior monk and a novice young monk was was on their way to get their daily supply for the temple. On the way there, they have to cross a knee high river. At the river bank , there was a lady also trying to cross that river.

Being a compassion monk, the senior monk offer to carry her on his back to the other side. The novice monk dissaprove of his act. The reason being, as a monk, close contact with a lady is prohibted.

The senior monk carry on ahead to carry her despite the strict rule.

The novice monk followed them closely with disgust. Upon reaching the other side of the river, the senior monk kindly put the lady down and carry on with their journey to get their supply.

Along the way, the novice monk kept making remark about the senior's act and keep reminding of his indecency behavior. The young novice didn't stop yacking his mouth even on their journey back to the temple.

When they reach back at the temple, the senior monk told the novice monk: " I had left the lady at the river bank 3 hours ago... why are u still carry her with you"

Let the subject rest guys.. Move on..

[paddle_up]

I believe that Ming Yi Fa Shi is really compassionate. so much so that he willingly agreed to do those stunts himself.

I know that about two years ago, during the big hoo-ha about NKF, the Straits Times revealed that this stunt performing monk was being paid $15,000 a month.

Actually for only a few hundreds dollars a month, many of our foreign workers are taking similar risks with far less safety equipments building our skyscrapers. I am also seriously hoping those who contribute to this charity becuase of the supposedly risk taken by the monk are not insisting their maids clean their windows without appropriate safety equipments. Just a comparison if you may.

Speaking strictly for myself, a staunch buddhist, I am of the view that this monk did what he did and earning what he earned simply because he felt that is his way to get more contributions to his charity. A writer to the Straits Times forum today described it as emtional blackmail. I agree with him but I also agree that it is a uniquely Singaporean way, and very effective too, to raise money for charity.

Let us all be clear on this. There is no risk to the life of the monk during ALL his stunts. It may be scary and uncomfortable for him but he will not die doing it. The safety equipments protecting him is probably strong enough to hold ten Bangladeshi workers.

Go ahead and shed tears for him but remember to contribute as much as you can. That is what he is trying to get people to do for his charity. So many people will wait until he started on his stunt to call in and pledge. He is so effective at pulling in contributions during his stunts perhaps he should do it more often. Ren Ci Hospital will be in a much better position to help the poor if he does that.

:hat: :smokin:

Dear all,

Did a check with my friend from the media, it was reported in 2005 but He did clarify that he used to be drawing a salary but has since been collecting an allowance. Of course, there will be people that questioned how much is the allowance.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly...9,99432,00.html

In life, there will always be different schools of thought. For some, it will be i have only this limited amount of money to help, so i have to make sure that my donation is benefiting those really in need. For others, it will be i donate from my heart, it is just between my GOD and myself and that is it. Neither is wrong. Both have good intention. Kudos to all.

[Asura]

Hey guys

What is done is done. He had did his best and as with the balance of the world, there will be people who support him and people who don't like him. Also, there will be comments which are good and some are bad.

For who are we to judge him? Even if one had donate millions or 1 cent do not have the power to judge. Whether or not we intend to give, do so, we do not need to talk about this like a daily gossip. Of cause, we are free to express our views, but alot of us already show signs of giving un-testify proves and comments.

I do urge people, think with a heart. Yes the patients have needs. But he have his needs of peace.

At the end of the day, if he really have a bad motivation behind all this, he will get his retribution. If he is true, he is true.

Please let the matter rest. If you wish to show encouragement, a donation would be a great deal of encouragement.

[Guest guest_Top]

Hey guys

What is done is done. He had did his best and as with the balance of the world, there will be people who support him and people who don't like him. Also, there will be comments which are good and some are bad.

For who are we to judge him? Even if one had donate millions or 1 cent do not have the power to judge. Whether or not we intend to give, do so, we do not need to talk about this like a daily gossip. Of cause, we are free to express our views, but alot of us already show signs of giving un-testify proves and comments.

I do urge people, think with a heart. Yes the patients have needs. But he have his needs of peace.

At the end of the day, if he really have a bad motivation behind all this, he will get his retribution. If he is true, he is true.

Please let the matter rest. If you wish to show encouragement, a donation would be a great deal of encouragement.

Totally Agree... :clap:

[Guest Guest]

Even if you don't want to judge his motives, you are always free to judge where your donations go to.

Luckily, there are alternative and less-controversial places to donate to, e.g. the Kwong Wai Shiu Hospital: http://www.kwsh.org.sg/

[Guest Karma Chameleon]

There are some people whose wisdom and compassion shines through. To me the Dalai Lama is a good example. The power of his words and actions are enough to move, inspire and motivate people, without him ever having to resort to performing circus acts. In the non-religious world, if you try and manipulate people by needlessly endangering your life, so as to achieve something you want, that is called emotional blackmail. Where's the dharma in that?

[Guest Guest]

Well said.

[homeboi]

ok... leave this monk alone, he is good or bad, let the buddha decide :whistle:

[Guest Guest]

The sayest part of this show are those arties, they always express miserable sad looks because their show and hard work can't get people to donate.

Every viewerf ren ci show, just wait for Ming Yi Fa Shi'stunt, then you see the figure rockected up. I think those arties will feel even bad if they tried to question their worthness.

What if Ming Yi Fa Shi can no more capable to stunt? the sign already there.

To depend on one man show definally a bad factor to this charity project.

[oralb]

let me change the scenario a bit

for instance if you ask me to donate to a charity, and i told you that i will only do so if someone risk his life doing a dangereous stunt, what would you say to me?

i bet nothing good will come out of your mouth.

now why did they assume we will donate coz of stunts?

are we donating coz we wanna watch more stunts or to prevent them from doing more dangereous stunt the next time?

somewhere, somthing is wrong with our donation mentality