Career Advice

[Guest crossroad]

Hi all,

I am currently facing a crossroad in my career. I am seeking help from our friendly bwers here who could advise me.

I am early 30s currently working in an asian bank with 6-7 yrs of working experience in compliance. Recently I received an offer to join an investment bank. I am struggling whether to take up the offer

Pull factor
- The remuneration package is impressive, at least 40% increment of my current salary. Being a gay guy, I want to build up my savings as much as possible.
- Well known investment bank which could offer me wider exposure, traveling overseas

Push factor
- my career advancement in the asian bank is very limited and my salary is slightly underpaid compared to market rate
- Very good work life balance as I usually out of the office by 6pm and seldom need to bring work home to do but because of this, I find lack of challenges and motivation in my current job scope. Being a single gay, I have absolutely nothing to do when I reached home at night. I felt aimless everyday.
 

Unknown factor
- The investment bank recently announced massive job cuts across the world although the interviewers assured me that the bank is beefing up the quality and quantity of compliance team. There is possibility there'll be no bonus for fy 2016
- The asian bank I'm currently in is stable and has never exercised retrenchment b4. However, I'm still worried about the job stability with the investment bank as they hire and fire. It's rather stressful to constantly worry about my rice bowl.
- I'm the major income contributor in my family. I pay for all bills and loans for my family. If I'm fired by the investment bank, I will have deep troubles paying my bills.It's challenging to look for a job these days.
- My current bosses are very nice people, I'm fine with the culture in my dept. I'm quite apprehensive in dealing with ang mohs in the investment banks as there are great differences bet the working cultures between asian and western bank.
- I recently enroll in nus master part time before I applied for this job, I'm worried I may not cope as I can't foresee my workload in the new company

I hope experienced bwer could offer your opinions which route is suitable for me.

[reflector85]

After reading your story, I found myself in the same shoe as you. I'm oso in banking sector since 4 years ago but not in compliance. But I always wanted to be in compliance sector but never had the chance.. company are now looking for experience staff..  haiz... 

My take is follow your heart. Depends on what your want, $ or personal life. To me, earning $ is nv ending. Most importantly is health and the people ard u. But the ultimate decision still lies on u. All the best 

[youngpunk]

I think it really depends on what you need and value more at this stage in life.  If it's about savings, I'd say take the plunge and go for the switch.  If it's about stability, then obviously staying put where you are would be the smarter and more comfortable option.  If  it's about lifestyle, then it's purely about work-life balance.

The other considerations would include your longer-term plans, ie. is career progression what you seek, and if so, which offers you better opportunity in the long-run.  But then, you kinda already noted that the there's limited progression at where you are now, so that's answered. 

Now look at the possibility of a retrenchment.  If the company has already announced massive retrenchment and yet they're hiring you, that probably means the company is prioritizing their business model to focus on what they think you'd be able to add value.  So chances of you being retrenched in the short-run, probably not that high.  Let's say in the mid- to long-term, you do get retrenched, the retrenchment packages are usually pretty good anyway, and with your skills, i don't think it would be a problem finding another job soon after?  Considering the substantially higher salary plus potential handshake package, that should definitely buy you plenty of months to look for the next job anyway, maybe even a vacay in between!

And then there's the NUS master programme.  Ask yourself whether you're studying for the sake of real learning, or also the more practical reason of bettering career advancement.  Once you have that answered, see whether that's something that you should continue to undertake, or can be postponed (assuming you take up the investment bank offer, which in itself already means your career has been advanced).

Finally, it's really the lifestyle you wish to lead.  Like what Reflector said, money can always be made. If tangible stuff aside, lifestyle is what you value, find a way to understand the real expected job volume instead of second-guessing, and then assess whether that's what you're willing to put in.

So yah.  No real answer.  Lol.  But all the best making your decision!

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by youngpunk
minor edits

[Coolbriz]

While it may look like a logical decision to move on to the "greener pasture" on the other side, you have some considerations to make. You mentioned that you are the major income contributor to your family. You probably need to look at the worst case scenario. As you have already mentioned that the investment bank has adopted the policy of "hire and fire", it is not too unreasonable or far fetched to consider that it may happen to you. what's more crucial is, what will you do if it happens? Some people can adapt and move on even with a pay cut. Are you able to accept that? If you have lots of savings for such situation, that is enough for you to last through till you find another good matching job, then perhaps switching to the investment bank is also a calculated risk that you could take. If all the worst scenario is something you couldn't bear, then staying put might be a better option. Taking into consideration that you have good working relation with your colleagues and superiors in your current company, which is not easy to come by. Negotiating for a better pay in your current company may not be impossible either. 

Whatever it is, go with what you are most comfortable and confident with. Once decision is made, don't look back and don't regret. Just do your best with what you have chosen. All the best to your future endeavors! 

[Enforcer]

If I were you, I would stick to the current job after weighing the scenarios.

[benedict5856]

I would stay put. Economy is bad. Some local banks has announced that they are NOT recruiting new staff for operational side.

Investment banking has its own amount of stress. Unless u are a top performer, else every time the economy is bad, yr head will be at the chopping board.

Else if u wanna to earn more money, there are many jobs that offer good salary, not just bank. Banking provides stable income but not good income. Eat no full, starve no die.

Last time my ex-boss ask me back to work for him again, offering better salary, plus its also my passion. So I quit my existing boring job and move forward. In the end, not long after I work in the new place, I was told to leave bcas one of the staff dislike me. In the end, I was jobless for few months.

 

 

[DeMarko]

I will stick to the current job after you have put the Pros and Cons. This 2016, economy is unstable ... esp in the Oil, Investment and Pharmaceutical areas

[IkuTube]

Life at a crossroad, particularly when you are able to see light at the end of each tunnel, can be perplexing.  While it is natural to seek for something better, your predicament is so much filled with hesitancy right now.  You are so much loaded, not with excitement, but with a heavy heart should you accept the job offer.  You feel there is so much to lose to take it up.

I would always encourage individuals to take risks provided they know what they are doing.  Importantly, they must know what they want next.  In your case, I feel that you are very much comfortable to stay where you are, all with valid reasons.  These make the decision difficult.  Usually, it is our comfort zone that betrays us with fears of the unknown future.   Fear, in itself, can stress you up and it may lead to lack of performance.  Do bear in mind that the investment bank, with its restructuring, retrenchment and a policy of hire and fire, would want a go-getter right from the start.  Will you be able to do that?  Will you be able to assimilate immediately "dealing with ang mohs"?

With respect and pardon me, how did you receive the offer to join the investment bank?  Did you apply for it?  Should you were headhunted, I must say that your reputation, at your age, is creditable.  I believe it will stay that way and there will be more to come in future.  I have this strange feeling that you have a smooth career path ahead of you.

IMHO, the 40% increment with possibility of no bonus for FY2016 will get you back to where you start.  I won't say that you will not and have not benefited anything but what you have in your hands right now are too much for you to make the move - the bills, the NUS Master, work-life balance.

In a crossroad, the choice that you make has to give you the peace of mind.  You have to choose the journey and which choice matters most.  Based on what you have written and should I be in your shoe, I would stay.  At least till you are done with the Master.  Where you are, with your current nice bosses and "usually out of the office by 6pm and seldom need to bring work home" will only allow you to have less stressful time finishing the NUS Master.

All the best to you!

 

[Guest Hot Swimmer]

I would say go and jump. There is no absolute guerantee your current bank will not chop and cut in current economy downfall.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, benedict5856 said:

I would stay put. Economy is bad. Some local banks has announced that they are NOT recruiting new staff for operational side.

Investment banking has its own amount of stress. Unless u are a top performer, else every time the economy is bad, yr head will be at the chopping board.

Else if u wanna to earn more money, there are many jobs that offer good salary, not just bank. Banking provides stable income but not good income. Eat no full, starve no die.

 

 

 

I thot bankers are very well paid? Is it really that bad?

[benedict5856]

4 hours ago, Guest said:

I thot bankers are very well paid? Is it really that bad?

What is considered as well-paid? How much?

 

[exec_fetish]

Stick with your current job, till at least things are stable for you (or at least you complete your Masters). Compliance role will always be in demand in banks (I'm in banking too, but in front line), and demand will definitely outstrip supply over the next few years at least.

[alien]

At least 40% increment of ur current salary sounds like a very good deal, how often can you get a 40% increment?! But due to the unstable economy tis yr, looks like it is better to stay put in ur current job.

[Guest]

The burn out rate for investment bankers are notorious in the industry. But if they ever land a few IPO listing, the rewards that they reap before they burn out, can sustain them for the rest of their lives. So it really depends on what TS wants. Does TS want to

(1) piah until no day and no night maybe for a few weeks straight continually for a few years, just so that you can generate out some stupid financial reports to get other investors to buy the IPO which their investment bank is undertaking, and then earn enough to last for one or two lifetimes and maybe even drive a nice car to show off at the end of it, or

(2) go for a stable compliance job which the industry will forever need (especially after Lehman) but grow at a slower pace for the rest of your life.

If I am young and energetic, I will go for (1) which is much more glamorous and considered the bootcamp of the financial industry. This is also a profession where many top MBA graduates from many top MBA schools will kill to get into. Investment banking jobs don't come by very easily. It's a chance of a lifetime for some people. Some top graduates in some top MBA schools may even ask to do internships for free at such investment banks, just so that they can get their foot inside the banks in the hope of landing them a job there in the future.  It is a golden opportunity. But whether the opportunity bear the fruit or not at the end of day, is really up to how you make use of it already.

But if I have more liabilities like family or house to take care, and if the family really cannot hold it together for a few years without my financial support, I will stay on the current compliance job which the industry will forever need.

My take is this: If your family can hold it together for a few years and even go as far as to support you spiritually (need not be financially) for a few years, it's good to piah a bit while you still can.

[Guest Hot Swimmer]

7 minutes ago, Guest said:

The burn out rate for investment bankers are notorious in the industry. But if they ever land a few IPO listing, the rewards that they reap before they burn out, can sustain them for the rest of their lives. So it really depends on what TS wants. Does TS want to

(1) piah until no day and no night maybe for a few weeks straight continually for a few years, just so that you can generate out some stupid financial reports to get other investors to buy the IPO which their investment bank is undertaking, and then earn enough to last for one or two lifetimes and maybe even drive a nice car to show off at the end of it, or

(2) go for a stable compliance job which the industry will forever need (especially after Lehman) but grow at a slower pace for the rest of your life.

If I am young and energetic, I will go for (1) which is much more glamorous and considered the bootcamp of the financial industry. This is also a profession where many top MBA graduates from many top MBA schools will kill to get into. Investment banking jobs don't come by very easily. It's a chance of a lifetime for some people. Some top graduates in some top MBA schools may even ask to do internships for free at such investment banks, just so that they can get their foot inside the banks in the hope of landing them a job there in the future.  It is a golden opportunity. But whether the opportunity bear the fruit or not at the end of day, is really up to how you make use of it already.

But if I have more liabilities like family or house to take care, and if the family really cannot hold it together for a few years without my financial support, I will stay on the current compliance job which the industry will forever need.

My take is this: If your family can hold it together for a few years and even go as far as to support you spiritually (need not be financially) for a few years, it's good to piah a bit while you still can.

That's what i tried to say. Go and jump! Cheong all the way and do your best. If not good can always back off to local bank. At least you will live your life without regret.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Guest Hot Swimmer said:

That's what i tried to say. Go and jump! Cheong all the way and do your best. If not good can always back off to local bank. At least you will live your life without regret.

huh? if that is really what you tried to say, you sure are a fantastic summarizer...

[youngpunk]

17 minutes ago, Guest said:

huh? if that is really what you tried to say, you sure are a fantastic summarizer...

lol

[Guest Hi]

Stay in your present  stable job and always look for passive income be it internet income, rental income etc, don't be too comfortable with your job, you are not irreplaceable.

[Guest]

Stay for now if its stable, if you can get out the door by 6pm and no weekend work, use that time to venture into something else.

[jaylen]

Investment banking has it pros and cons from what I know. Really slog a lot but it's also hard to get such an offer. For me, I'll go with a choice that I won't regret. Have you always wanted to go into IB? If this thought of IB only came about because of the offer then maybe u should stay. But if it has been gnawing at you then just go for it because not everyone has that chance. 

[Guest]

i would say go for it. Since it's a 40% jump, if they fire you, you would be able to hail a higher salary after that. There's also no career advancement in your bank anyway.

[Guest 8 legged TeeTu]

I would stay put, do my part timer study and remain worried free. No point worrying about  office culture, workload, pressure, politics, instability and heavy overtime jobs. Life is more than just work. Free time is hard to come by nowadays, treasure what you already have. Spend more time with family than in work. Find something to do during your free time, catch some sleep, look for friends,  Old shoes is always more comfortable than new shoes. What if...after joining.....you cannot handle strange people and stuff.....you quitted (immediately after 1 month), it became worse than waiting for retrenchment.   Bye Bye to my comfy land. 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Guest 8 legged TeeTu said:

I would stay put, do my part timer study and remain worried free. No point worrying about  office culture, workload, pressure, politics, instability and heavy overtime jobs. Life is more than just work. Free time is hard to come by nowadays, treasure what you already have. Spend more time with family than in work. Find something to do during your free time, catch some sleep, look for friends,  Old shoes is always more comfortable than new shoes. What if...after joining.....you cannot handle strange people and stuff.....you quitted (immediately after 1 month), it became worse than waiting for retrenchment.   Bye Bye to my comfy land. 

Such words are usually said by those who are financially stable and/or without any ambitions type. The types whom you might see feeding birds in the park with a cane in their hands, where life is more than just work to them, and they would love to spend more time with their families, find something to do during their free time, catch some sleep, look for friends, cook a chicken, watch the stars, count the sheeps, play with the dog, and feed the cats. That's why life in the IB is definitely not their cup of tea. .  

[JerseyFetish]

Pls note banks will needs compliance always and especially so after Dodd-Frank, Basel III and their localized versions including more stringent MAS regulations - so it's not likely the bank will cut their compliance staff that quickly. It's the investment bankers with high bonuses who go first.

Also every boss is different. You cannot generalize based on Asians vs Ang Mohs. Learning how to work with more people could also help you in the future.

I think the deciding factor would be:

1) how much risk can you take in the short term, can you ride out a higher paying job with greater exposure and more demands for several years, and whether you have sufficient savings to tide you out in the event of being let go. If you can then go for it!

2) what are your goals? You mentioned you enrolled in masters course, what's your next course or plan? If it's a career switch away from compliance, and you need to excel in your course to succeed, then you could stick to your current firm. If it's to get promoted within your firm, jumping over seems like a huge bonus already with the higher salary and greater exposure.

[Guest]

Can anyone advise on a realistic picture of how life is like in IB? And what's the pay difference between compliance and IB? Thanx a million!

[Nipoet]

I like to advise you to stay put. But after 5 years in my current job, I'm already quite bored of it. Hopping would be a change of environment/people/job description, but therein lies the problem : it's all uncertain and in the future.

At your age and with your current financial burden, is it prudent to wade into the unknown?

 

[Latte]

Job security can come from 2 sources: 1) having a stable job in a stable company, or 2) having marketable skills & experience. Type 2 is more enduring whereas Type 1 is like putting all your eyes in one basket. 

Working (in compliance?) in an IB (considered Tier 1 FIs) will definitely make you more marketable. Even if you're retrenched by IB, I reckon you shouldn't have difficulty landing offers in Tier 2 or 3 FIs. 

As to whether you should jump ship, depends a lot on how career ambitious you are. If all you really wanted in life is a stable job with stable income & hours, then stay put. No point chasing after something that is not for you. As for feeling bored and aimless, be proactive and take on other activities (eg voluntary work) that can add meaning to your life.

But if you are the ambitious type, and have confidence in your own abilities, then go for the IB job. I once had a staff who was in a similar position as you, asking me whether he should stay with us or go. I advised him to go as I know he's ambitious and achievement-oriented person. Later he did very very well in his career, in fact, much better than me  

 

[suckmegood]

tricky tricky tricky... but I'll say why not do one thing at a time? finished up your Masters and decide the step.

[Guest Laid Back type]

23 hours ago, Guest said:

Such words are usually said by those who are financially stable and/or without any ambitions type. The types whom you might see feeding birds in the park with a cane in their hands, where life is more than just work to them, and they would love to spend more time with their families, find something to do during their free time, catch some sleep, look for friends, cook a chicken, watch the stars, count the sheeps, play with the dog, and feed the cats. That's why life in the IB is definitely not their cup of tea. .  

Nothing wrong with that. Life is too precious and ought to be a little laid back and enjoy life to the fullest and finest. 

[darkflame]

I will do a background check on my prospective company before I take up the offer.

This will include looking online and also sites like Glassdoor.

 

Your dilemma is more of an issue of risk vs stability.

For the past 4 years, I have been working on the lines of stability, but it is indeed creating some void in me at the workplace.

I am about to uproot and go somewhere else once again.

[Nateyang]

Risk versus stability - very apt! I think at some point we all feel that we need some stability but then you begin to wonder whether there are better prospects, better opportunities for you. I stayed in my previous job for 3 years because it offered me stability - i know exactly what i need to do to get the results the bosses want. But i hated it and lost 10 kg over the last 3 months before i threw in the towel. If you have the drive and dream of bigger things, then go ahead and jump. Or you will end up wondering every minute what could have been until its too late.

[Enforcer]

Work for what you like and stay happy! =D

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Enforcer said:

Work for what you like and stay happy! =D

 

I think such advise cannot be applied into the context of Singapore anymore. You first need to work to put enough bacon on the table. Only then can you work for what you like and stay happy.

[Guest Xavier]

Just go with the flow. It is difficult to lose job here in Singapore

[Guest Light]

How much are they offering you as investment banker?