Tradition

[Sian boy]

I realise that as time passes by out tradition diminishes. Even the traditional kueh selling outside are not as traditional. Less and less youngsters know to speak their dialect. Would it come to one day where people doesn't know what dialect they are? 

[ArchDragon]

I guess i "might be" the only one in my generation that loves eating those traditional kuehs :/ 

[sgmaven]

Well, dying languages are issues in the real world, and some linguists are trying to preserve these languages before they die out. The same can be said about surnames in the world. If you take a look at this, there have been fewer and fewer surnames (minus the typos) compared with say, 50 years ago.

 

As for Singapore. One issue that we face with the dialects, was the government's strong-handed approach to the use of Mandarin as the common tongue for all ethnic Chinese. We used to have lots of Chinese programmes in dialects shown on the television and radio (those were the days), until the government did away with that for about a whole generation. I think that the government has loosened up on this in recent years, as they have realised that these measures have also affected the communication of traditions and traditional values through the generations. Most of our grandparents do not speak Mandarin, but their dialects. With grandchildren hardly understanding their grandparents, a lot is lost.

 

It is also not just traditional kueh-kueh that are no longer as traditional. Many traditional dishes involve a lot of work in the kitchen. Most Singaporeans cannot be bothered to cook nowadays, and so these arts are fast disappearing too. I am sure many will notice that the many of the older hawkers will simply close their business when they retire, since most of their kids have no intention of continuing the hawking tradition of their parents. It is even difficult to find apprentices to take over, even if the hawker is willing to hand down those recipes. Meanwhile, a lot of food gets mass-produced, even for the hawkers. Most of the roast duck sold in Singapore comes from a single source, and hardly anyone makes Yong Tau Foo from scratch, but buys from a supplier.

 

As for people not knowing what dialect group they belong to, I believe it is already happening. People used to marry within their dialect group/clans, so you would be born "pure" Cantonese, Hokkien or Teochew, say. Nowadays, people don't care, so there are many of us, who are half-this and half-that. Move down a generation, it may become quarter-this, that, that and that. By the time you are bits of Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochew, Hainanese, Foochow, Hakka, and even perhaps bits of other races too, would you even have this notion of what dialect group you belong to? It is like the Americans who say they have some Irish, Jewish, English and German roots. Do they even consider themselves Irish? Probably only to celebrate some festival!

[abang]

Give me 红龟粿 (Red tortoise cake) anyway.. I prefer them over hamburgers.

 

More tempting traditional Teochew Kueh.. I found this website and the prices listed are ANcient..

www.pohcheu.com/menu--photo.html

[Guest Neh Neh]

The local fruit's names are also diminishing. For example: Dog's poo fruit 狗屎果. Do you know what it is?

[Guest Peanut filled]

1 hour ago, abang said:

Give me 红龟粿 (Red tortoise cake) anyway.. I prefer them over hamburgers.

 

More tempting traditional Teochew Kueh.. I found this website and the prices listed are ANcient..

www.pohcheu.com/menu--photo.html

Those factory-made one not nice.  I prefer home-made one. But nowadays, those tortoise cake is getting smaller and smaller and more expensive.

[sgmaven]

1 hour ago, abang said:

Give me 红龟粿 (Red tortoise cake) anyway.. I prefer them over hamburgers.

 

More tempting traditional Teochew Kueh.. I found this website and the prices listed are ANcient..

www.pohcheu.com/menu--photo.html

Creating demand by buying the stuff to eat is one thing, but I am not sure that there are many younger people who are willing to continue the tradition of making these things. As it is, many of the more "traditional" food shops already rely significantly on imported labour.

[sgmaven]

1 minute ago, Guest Peanut filled said:

Those factory-made one not nice.  I prefer home-made one. But nowadays, those tortoise cake is getting smaller and smaller and more expensive.

I like the ones from Ji Xiang Confectionery at Everton Park.

[cutejack]

Of course traditions r dying. Some parents feel so proud to say that the children dont go for kuehs. F****!

But in my office many new recruits execs girls n guys like talk in mandarin instead of english.

So,upbringing is important.

[sgmaven]

1 hour ago, cutejack said:

Of course traditions r dying. Some parents feel so proud to say that the children dont go for kuehs. F****!

But in my office many new recruits execs girls n guys like talk in mandarin instead of english.

So,upbringing is important.

But Mandarin is not traditional... Dialects are...

[SpillingTheT]

Things we do that is considered not traditional will become traditions in the future. 

 

Why is it a must to impose ourselves with 'traditions'? While I do appreciate and believe our generations should know about our traditions, but to commit to our roots isn't necessary. What other additional value does it have other than nostalgia? 

 

Feel free to disagree but I believe other than archiving these traditions, if they were to naturally die out then so be it.

[enthuboy_93]

5 hours ago, Sian boy said:

I realise that as time passes by out tradition diminishes. Even the traditional kueh selling outside are not as traditional. Less and less youngsters know to speak their dialect. Would it come to one day where people doesn't know what dialect they are? 

That would depend on us to pass these dialects along
For now, we need to learn them though
With technology being so advanced today, if one is willing to learn, it is quite easy to find avenues to learn the dialects
And more importantly, he must use dialect actively in conversations as that is the best way to learn a dialect or language
So not to worry

[cutejack]

1 hour ago, sgmaven said:

But Mandarin is not traditional... Dialects are...

At least they speak mandarin. Some totally forgot abt mother tongue as though in europe. Speaking only. Angmo dont speak our language ok

Hahahaha

[sgmaven]

8 minutes ago, cutejack said:

At least they speak mandarin. Some totally forgot abt mother tongue as though in europe. Speaking only. Angmo dont speak our language ok

Hahahaha

That's where I think you belong to the "brainwashed" generation. Since when has Mandarin the mother tongue of the immigrants? Unless you are a first generation migrant from PRC.

[Guest Nameless]

It's traditional for man to marry woman and carry on the family name. 

 

On cooking, its too much time and effort in prep and washing up, and nowadays work has occupied so much of our time, any spare time would be spent resting and unwinding.

[sgmaven]

1 minute ago, Guest Nameless said:

On cooking, its too much time and effort in prep and washing up, and nowadays work has occupied so much of our time, any spare time would be spent resting and unwinding.

You don't need to cook 功夫菜 everyday. It could be that you make simple meals on weekdays, but spend more time in the kitchen on weekends. Besides, some people find cooking rather therapeutic.

[shyc]

Technologies and advancement are the root cause but can we do without them?

 

We rely heavy on technologies these days. Grandmothers don't rely on recipe books or measuring instruments. Tell them you want to eat something and they make them through their memories. Newer equipment makes things faster but you may end up losing certain aspect like Flavours or textures. 

 

In terms of beliefs and traditions, we tend to pick and choose what we prefer. For example, how many are now still in favour of burning papers for the 7th lunar moon? Where do we draw the line between traditions and superstitions? In my younger days, we kneel and greet our elders during festival period. Ask a youngster to do that now and they think your mind gone off the rockers. Soon even handshake might be a thing of the past and just a simple nod or verbal greeting is acceptable.

 

P/s: PohCheu have been around at the same location for many many years, like Ji Xiang. PohCheu specialty is soon kueh and you can still see the intensive labour in action in the background. Not sure if their extend list of Ang Ku are made there as well as I only took note of their soon kueh all this while. If anyone is checking out PohCheu, around the same vicinity there are also 2 other traditional kueh shop. One sell Nonya/Indonesian kueh while the other is TeoChew/Hakka kueh. Sorry dun remember shop names.

[Guest Ah Gong Ah Ma Kueh]

Nowadays, job is no longer secured nor satisfactory.  If your granny or grandpa is still around and have some traditional skills,  younger generation have better learn from them as soon as possible.  It might come in handy someday when you decided to fire your boss and set up your own traditional business.  At least, I have learned some old crafts from a verteran old woman and I forsee that craft might someday dissappear in Singapore.  I may probably be her last few disciples who mastered most of  her  skills.   As for Ang Ku Kueh, my granny used to make them.  I can tell a vast different between the traditional homewake and the mass produced foreign-labour quality.   My granny Ang Ku Kueh has very soft and thin skin texture and the fillings were also full and delicious.  She also made Png Kueh and BaZhang for sell.  The current foreign-labour or machine-produced Ang Ku Kueh has very thick skin and sometime a little tough on its texture,  the fillings were never pack in full and sometime has a little sourish taste to it.    New can never beat the old. That is the fact and same apply to leadership in Sillypore.  

[cutejack]

20 minutes ago, Guest Ah Gong Ah Ma Kueh said:

Nowadays, job is no longer secured nor satisfactory.  If your granny or grandpa is still around and have some traditional skills,  younger generation have better learn from them as soon as possible.  It might come in handy someday when you decided to fire your boss and set up your own traditional business.  At least, I have learned some old crafts from a verteran old woman and I forsee that craft might someday dissappear in Singapore.  I may probably be her last few disciples who mastered most of  her  skills.   As for Ang Ku Kueh, my granny used to make them.  I can tell a vast different between the traditional homewake and the mass produced foreign-labour quality.   My granny Ang Ku Kueh has very soft and thin skin texture and the fillings were also full and delicious.  She also made Png Kueh and BaZhang for sell.  The current foreign-labour or machine-produced Ang Ku Kueh has very thick skin and sometime a little tough on its texture,  the fillings were never pack in full and sometime has a little sourish taste to it.    New can never beat the old. That is the fact and same apply to leadership in Sillypore.  

Aiyah many ang ku kueh at "who dont mind to show yr dick" under member column la. go n see.

[thorzguy]

5 hours ago, sgmaven said:

I like the ones from Ji Xiang Confectionery at Everton Park.

Same here! Their ang ku kueh are really heavenly.

 

Speaking of tradition - dialects are one issue. I think it is beautiful when one is able to converse the various dialects. Sadly, many are losing it. I have a friend, who's JC school going Son actually tell that to my friend "Mom, can you NOT speak Mandarin to me? Speak English".

 

Mannerism is another. How many youngsters really addressed the elderly/senior by proper salutation? 

 

The society has evolved. Many of these youngsters parents are not following the tradition themselves thus it becomes a "norm" for them to be who they want/who they are now.

 

 

[sgmaven]

Well, much of traditional culture is lost on the young, who tend to chase after the latest trend. Hence the number of youngsters learning Korean. It is only later in life that one tends to think about more philosophical issues like identity and traditions.

[Guest Nameless]

Some traditional foods are quite unhealthy tho, I remember watching my grandmother cook, a lot of manual labour and heaps of lard.

 

1 hour ago, sgmaven said:

Well, much of traditional culture is lost on the young, who tend to chase after the latest trend. Hence the number of youngsters learning Korean. It is only later in life that one tends to think about more philosophical issues like identity and traditions.

 

Talk about passive invasion, eroding our culture with theirs, no need for nuclear options or bloodshed.

[Guest Caned]

1 hour ago, sgmaven said:

Well, much of traditional culture is lost on the young, who tend to chase after the latest trend. Hence the number of youngsters learning Korean. It is only later in life that one tends to think about more philosophical issues like identity and traditions.

Blame their parents.  Most parents nowadays like to spoil their child. 

[cutejack]

Just now, Guest Caned said:

Blame their parents.  Most parents nowadays like to spoil their child. 

That's wat i mentioned earlier. It's the upbringing. Parents r proud to see their spoit children. Can talk proudly that their children like only kfc ,mc donalds etc etc.  Just like my uncle. He gave some food in a Tiffin carrier many years back. My mum returned with those malay kuihs in it. My uncle told my mum that nowadays children dont eat such food wherelse my cousins said they like it n finished eating them. Look. Simply dont understand what is there to be proud to say such things abt their kids.?

[Sian boy]

4 hours ago, enthuboy_93 said:

That would depend on us to pass these dialects along
For now, we need to learn them though
With technology being so advanced today, if one is willing to learn, it is quite easy to find avenues to learn the dialects
And more importantly, he must use dialect actively in conversations as that is the best way to learn a dialect or language
So not to worry

Hope so coz it seems younger generation are not keen to learn lol

[Sian boy]

8 hours ago, Guest Neh Neh said:

The local fruit's names are also diminishing. For example: Dog's poo fruit 狗屎果. Do you know what it is?

Donno lol

[Sian boy]

24 minutes ago, Guest Caned said:

Blame their parents.  Most parents nowadays like to spoil their child. 

My grandma knows Mandarin but when we talk to her in mandarin she would either scold us or pretend she don't understand. She will only reply when we speak dialect. Lol

[doncoin]

9 hours ago, Guest Nameless said:

It's traditional for man to marry woman and carry on the family name. 

 

On cooking, its too much time and effort in prep and washing up, and nowadays work has occupied so much of our time, any spare time would be spent resting and unwinding.

 

Well, with today's advancements in IVF development, all you really need is a sperm and an egg, and a surrogate to carry the family name. Marriage is optional. So tradition is somewhat preserved, just adapted to modern technologies. 

 

If we want to keep traditions, we can do away with emails or SMS etc. and go find a scribe in Chinatown, while we dictate our message to him and he will write in Chinese and post it by snail mail. 

 

Honestly when was the last time anyone actually cook and whine about the prep and washing up? I've seen prepped veggies that are nicely diced and sold in containers. Meat that are pre-cooked, and all you have to do is to heat it up. What you really need to do is to serve the food and after eating put it in the dish washer. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by doncoin

[JooLian]

Traditions are aged-long habits amongst a "tribe" or society.  Such habits may have variations, but the core characteristics are the same although details will vary with time.  Traditions thus form part of the culture of the tribe or society.  And within each culture, values are the foundations that mould and maintain the culture. 

 

Losing traditions will slowly erode the culture and with that strong values that are important to us.  Take Cutejack's comments about his uncle and I quote, "Just like my uncle. He gave some food in a Tiffin carrier many years back. My mum returned with those malay kuihs in it. My uncle told my mum that nowadays children dont eat such food wherelse my cousins said they like it n finished eating them. Look. Simply dont understand what is there to be proud to say such things abt their kids.?"  Old men like myself understand that your mum did a very nice traditional act of returning kindness with kindness.  Your uncle, knowing very well that his kids will love the kuihs, told a little white lie and used a traditional Chinese way to politely say "thank you, but you should not have taken the trouble to put the kuihs in the tiffin carrier".  If we understand the tradition, we know everyone is being nice and polite.  If you don't and therefore unable to read between the lines, you think that the uncle was being proud and haughty to boast that his kids are more modern.  Don't you find this is an interesting tradition?  The value attached?  Returning acts of kindness with kindness and courtesy in an indirect manner so as not to embarrass the other party.

 

Sorry, Cutejack, I don't mean to be rude or to imply anything unpleasant.  I just found your post a very good example of the values of tradition.

[cutejack]

23 minutes ago, JooLian said:

Traditions are aged-long habits amongst a "tribe" or society.  Such habits may have variations, but the core characteristics are the same although details will vary with time.  Traditions thus form part of the culture of the tribe or society.  And within each culture, values are the foundations that mould and maintain the culture. 

 

Losing traditions will slowly erode the culture and with that strong values that are important to us.  Take Cutejack's comments about his uncle and I quote, "Just like my uncle. He gave some food in a Tiffin carrier many years back. My mum returned with those malay kuihs in it. My uncle told my mum that nowadays children dont eat such food wherelse my cousins said they like it n finished eating them. Look. Simply dont understand what is there to be proud to say such things abt their kids.?"  Old men like myself understand that your mum did a very nice traditional act of returning kindness with kindness.  Your uncle, knowing very well that his kids will love the kuihs, told a little white lie and used a traditional Chinese way to politely say "thank you, but you should not have taken the trouble to put the kuihs in the tiffin carrier".  If we understand the tradition, we know everyone is being nice and polite.  If you don't and therefore unable to read between the lines, you think that the uncle was being proud and haughty to boast that his kids are more modern.  Don't you find this is an interesting tradition?  The value attached?  Returning acts of kindness with kindness and courtesy in an indirect manner so as not to embarrass the other party.

 

Sorry, Cutejack, I don't mean to be rude or to imply anything unpleasant.  I just found your post a very good example of the values of tradition.

Not that. Its not really returning kindness with kindness. Seriously my mum wants to share the joy of eating those kuihs which enjoyed by her children where else  my uncle look down abt that food . Anyway we knew abt him who thinks that by eating those kuih his children are not atas. Again we knew abt my uncle. Believe he knows who is atas now.lolxxx

[wilfgene]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:02 AM, Sian boy said:

I realise that as time passes by out tradition diminishes. Even the traditional kueh selling outside are not as traditional. Less and less youngsters know to speak their dialect. Would it come to one day where people doesn't know what dialect they are? 

The Catch is YOU.

 

Where do YOU draw the line?

Even on that line, at which point do YOU turn a deaf ear and a blind eye?

WHY?

 

The conventional/usual definition of TRADITION backdates to end of MONGOLIAN occupation.

 

You decide if you care to check out  your ORIGINAL 姓 ,

if you happen to understand structure of the writing system,

if you happen to forget the TRADITIONS  of foot-bounding and suttee.

 

Castes, human sacrifice and endo-cannibalism, too.

OR the persecutions of OTHERS, based on ethnicity.

OR IF you are brave enough, that among OURSELVES.

 

Or just content yourself with HOMOSEXUALITY HAD NEVER BEEN A CRIME.

 

OR easier, blame it on the feudal ruling class and pagans. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by wilfgene