I do not mind paying 40% tax to Singapore

[Guest Taxed]

If I can enjoy FREE"-

 

1) Schooling for me and all my love ones for life

2) Health/dental care for me and all my love ones for life.

3) Unemployment Security.

4) Subsidised Housing

5) There is no high class or low class discrimination.

 

At least, it makes me fee very very SAFE and know that I will be taken care of when I grew old and nobody will become poor for having basic necessity in life covered.

 

Now!!

 

We are paying 20% to CPF, and going to pay more than 10% GST in the future and having to pay hefty healtcare cost, schooling fee and housing.  Are we not worse as compared to the Scandy countries whose citizens pay more tax and yet have better life than many Singaporeans from cradle to the grave.

 

 

 

Think about it.   

 

 

[Steve5380]

Singapore has already one of the highest GDP per capita in the world.  Higher than the Scandinavian countries.

Yet one reads of so much dissatisfaction here!  

Maybe it is because you live in a plutocracy, the government by few powerful who get their power from their wealth.

Yet... it is a sort of democracy!  But low on freedoms.  And a dominant political party that does not let go.

Why is the Singaporean electorate so influenced that it cannot freely elect other parties?

Countries with much lower GDP per capita have populations that are much happier...

 

[Guest guest]

43 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

Singapore has already one of the highest GDP per capita in the world.  Higher than the Scandinavian countries.

Yet one reads of so much dissatisfaction here!  

Maybe it is because you live in a plutocracy, the government by few powerful who get their power from their wealth.

Yet... it is a sort of democracy!  But low on freedoms.  And a dominant political party that does not let go.

Why is the Singaporean electorate so influenced that it cannot freely elect other parties?

Countries with much lower GDP per capita have populations that are much happier...

 

 

Steve, there you go again, batu api, trying to start a fire where there is none in the first place.

 

You did not live in Singapore and Malaysia from pre independence to post independence and early days struggle ,  the Indonesian konfrontasi days under Sukarno president of indonesia, the boom years, the  swiss standards years of PM Goh Chok Tong, the many low economic cycle years that Singapore govt steered and outmaneuvred from the poor global economy, the post LKY years, 

 

These are things and hardships that the current instagram and social media generation never lived to see and experience.

 

So , Steve you are out of the loop. You cannot understand the deep appreciation of the vast majority have for the administration that helped many generations of Singaporeans survived the ups and downs of world economic upheavals and downturns.

 

You whites only see the nice hotels and efficiency of service but not the.behind the scenes struggles of normal.everyday Singaporeans to provide you with that first world feeling when.u spend your greenbacks in your travels in Singapore.

 

The older members like Abang  , Kimlo777, myself, maybe admin GM will appreaciate the real struggle to survive in reddot smothered by a sea of green surroundings.

 

We are grateful for the peace , plentiful.jobs we had in the past, the future is a challenge.

 

And what we can say, for your country , is every change of administration gets from bad to worse, because the root problems have never been met,  that gigantic trillion dollar ans growing and growing deficit.

[Guest guest]

 

From fourth world to today , highest pee capita gdp, what did Singapore and Singaporeans had to go through to be what it is today is something Steve can only see from outside the goldfish bowl, he nevee had to face national service serving in tbe military , recurrent in camp training annually, going through the changes of economic restructuring, the ups and downs of relationship with malaysia , conatant threat of having the carpet pulled from under the feet , with possible threat of losing watee supply from the mainland, 

 

The new reality of thailand completing the Kra canal and ships bypassing the malacca straits and hence not stopping in spore,  malaysia also suffers   .

 

Reddot cannot sanction, nor impose heavy tariffs on adversarial countries, .

 

Free trade is reddot's motto.

[Guest Old folks home]

Guest is putting words into the mouths of other senior members. I for one disagree completely with crony like him.

[lohwpr]

4 hours ago, Guest Taxed said:

If I can enjoy FREE"-

 

1) Schooling for me and all my love ones for life

2) Health/dental care for me and all my love ones for life.

3) Unemployment Security.

4) Subsidised Housing

5) There is no high class or low class discrimination.

 

At least, it makes me fee very very SAFE and know that I will be taken care of when I grew old and nobody will become poor for having basic necessity in life covered.

 

Now!!

 

We are paying 20% to CPF, and going to pay more than 10% GST in the future and having to pay hefty healtcare cost, schooling fee and housing.  Are we not worse as compared to the Scandy countries whose citizens pay more tax and yet have better life than many Singaporeans from cradle to the grave.

 

 

 

Think about it.   

 

 

 

A capable person, one who is able to take care of himself and his love ones, would prefer a low tax system. As he has more deposable income, he is able to buy or acquire the things or services that he needs.  He feels more justified as he knows his tax contribution is not used to subsidise people like you. 

 

A less capable person or a lazy person or a person with low aspiration or ppl like you, would prefer a high tax system as you are leeching on other tax payers' money to subsidise your lifestyle. 

 

There is no right or wrong here as being lazy and having low aspiration is a choice and a lifestyle. 

But to make others pay for your decision doesn't sit well with me. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by lohwpr

[Guest Taxed]

1 hour ago, lohwpr said:

 

A capable person, one who is able to take care of himself and his love ones, would prefer a low tax system.
But to make others pay for your decision doesn't sit well with me. 

 

 

Capability does not guarantee anything.  When you are old, there is no guarantee you can take care of yourself regardless how capable you claims to be.  Think also for your own siblings, your parents, your children..etc.   Human live on unpredictability:-  phyiscal aging,  lost of income, high cost of livings, sudden illness.  Can your capability stop all these from happening?  Unless you can ensure all these are taken care of when you lost your total capability, you will likely feel more motivated to live, enjoy life and less worry and become more happy and loving.  Look at everyone in this country, at least what was written on their faces scares the shit out of me.  Stress, depression, easily agitated, dissatisfaction and relied heavily on material possession to fill the empty void. 

[lohwpr]

25 minutes ago, Guest Taxed said:

Capability does not guarantee anything.  When you are old, there is no guarantee you can take care of yourself regardless how capable you claims to be.  Think also for your own siblings, your parents, your children..etc.   Human live on unpredictability:-  phyiscal aging,  lost of income, high cost of livings, sudden illness.  Can your capability stop all these from happening?  Unless you can ensure all these are taken care of when you lost your total capability, you will likely feel more motivated to live, enjoy life and less worry and become more happy and loving.  Look at everyone in this country, at least what was written on their faces scares the shit out of me.  Stress, depression, easily agitated, dissatisfaction and relied heavily on material possession to fill the empty void. 

 

You are absolutely right. We are not capable to stop physical aging and the inevitable death from happening. And, of course, all the emotions that come along with it. As u have clearly pointed out, "Stress, depression, easily agitated, dissatisfaction and ............."

But our discussion is not about that.

 

It is about getting others paying higher tax so that u can take care of your siblings, parents and all that. 

This discussion is about whether one should work hard to put food on the table, save money, do proper financial planning and insurance coverage in case we fell ill so that we do not burden our love ones

 

or

 

depend on government to save us. ( make no mistakes, government to save u that means our tax contribution save you hor.....)

 

The things is, there are actually many countries that satisfies your idea of 40% tax to take care of your needs. But, as a capable person, I will be very upset to be living in that country as I know my hard earned money is used to subsided your problems. 

 

At the end of the day, yours parents, sibling and love ones are your problems, not ours. Why should we pay for it?

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by lohwpr

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest guest said:

 

From fourth world to today , highest pee capita gdp, what did Singapore and Singaporeans had to go through to be what it is today is something Steve can only see from outside the goldfish bowl, he nevee had to face national service serving in tbe military , recurrent in camp training annually, going through the changes of economic restructuring, the ups and downs of relationship with malaysia , conatant threat of having the carpet pulled from under the feet , with possible threat of losing watee supply from the mainland, 

 

The new reality of thailand completing the Kra canal and ships bypassing the malacca straits and hence not stopping in spore,  malaysia also suffers   .

 

Reddot cannot sanction, nor impose heavy tariffs on adversarial countries, .

 

Free trade is reddot's motto.

 

You have to recognize that a view from the outside of the fish bowl is more accurate than the view from the inside.  There is less reflection, distortion.  You judge my country the US from the outside,  I judge reddot from the outside.  We are equals.

 

 

7 hours ago, lohwpr said:

 

A capable person, one who is able to take care of himself and his love ones, would prefer a low tax system. As he has more deposable income, he is able to buy or acquire the things or services that he needs.  He feels more justified as he knows his tax contribution is not used to subsidise people like you. 

 

A less capable person or a lazy person or a person with low aspiration or ppl like you, would prefer a high tax system as you are leeching on other tax payers' money to subsidise your lifestyle. 

 

There is no right or wrong here as being lazy and having low aspiration is a choice and a lifestyle. 

But to make others pay for your decision doesn't sit well with me. 

 

 

"A capable person"... You seem to think that people in need are incapable, lazy,  of low aspiration,  leeches of the "capable" through subsidizing taxes.

 

Every person today is taking advantage (leeching?) of the work that others do today and did in the past.  You would not be able to discover science and technology all by yourself and be self sufficient.   I suspect that you could not build yourself the car you drive, the computer you use, the cellphone in your hand.  Maybe not even provide the clean water you drink.  No person is able to fully "take care of himself and his loved ones" while being part of society.

 

So the question is how can society see that disadvantaged people can have their lives sustained and not die.  I assume that we agree that society cannot let people in need just die.   No rational person will support the solution of letting sick people die and euthanize the jobless,  they and their families.

 

The solution society has today is the taxes and the social services.  Can you think of a better solution?

 

Then the question is how much taxes.  One good criterion is to tax as much as is necessary to provide for the survival of the whole population.  And beyond that, people should retain the rest of their income.   Is survival sufficiently good?  Or should there be a minimum standard of living for the whole population?

 

This issue is going to become increasingly relevant as automation, artificial intelligence is drastically reducing the need for human work.  Once all manufacturing and all services are done by machines,  how will people find a job?  Once there are no jobs, there will be no income to spend and the economy will grind to a halt.  The solution will have to be to tax the income from manufacturing and services,  and distribute the money to the jobless population for it to spend.  This may not be as tragic as it sounds.  We may be able to  live without having to work,  or by working only on what we do with some passion.  After all,  many of us would be miserable being lazy, feeling worthless, with no purpose except enjoyment.

.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Steve5380

[upshot]

12 hours ago, Guest Taxed said:

If I can enjoy FREE"-

 

1) Schooling for me and all my love ones for life

2) Health/dental care for me and all my love ones for life.

3) Unemployment Security.

4) Subsidised Housing

5) There is no high class or low class discrimination.

 

At least, it makes me fee very very SAFE and know that I will be taken care of when I grew old and nobody will become poor for having basic necessity in life covered.

 

Now!!

 

We are paying 20% to CPF, and going to pay more than 10% GST in the future and having to pay hefty healtcare cost, schooling fee and housing.  Are we not worse as compared to the Scandy countries whose citizens pay more tax and yet have better life than many Singaporeans from cradle to the grave.

 

 

 

Think about it.   

 

 

Damn seem like you are in love with AOC's Silly Green Deal. Socialism does not work. Google it.

Edited May 12, 2019 by upshot

[robin]

The title of this thread itself started by Guest seems to have a political agenda. I do not think we should continue. Maybe moderators should consider closing it. 

[Guest Tomato]

12 hours ago, Guest Taxed said:

If I can enjoy FREE"-

 

1) Schooling for me and all my love ones for life

2) Health/dental care for me and all my love ones for life.

3) Unemployment Security.

4) Subsidised Housing

5) There is no high class or low class discrimination.

 

At least, it makes me fee very very SAFE and know that I will be taken care of when I grew old and nobody will become poor for having basic necessity in life covered.

 

Now!!

 

We are paying 20% to CPF, and going to pay more than 10% GST in the future and having to pay hefty healtcare cost, schooling fee and housing.  Are we not worse as compared to the Scandy countries whose citizens pay more tax and yet have better life than many Singaporeans from cradle to the grave.

 

 

 

Think about it.   

 

 

 

The CPF may be under your name, but it is designed such that one would not get the entire CPF back (despite the CPF Life paying 'annuities' to those whom are still living).  The CPF is somewhat similar to the western taxation system where people are taxed as high as 40% .  The difference is, in the west, once you are retired, the state takes care of you (despite the sustainability is questioned). For the CPF, the current rate is that a majority of the of the old folks gets less than $500 per month.

[upshot]

33 minutes ago, Guest Tomato said:

 

The CPF may be under your name, but it is designed such that one would not get the entire CPF back (despite the CPF Life paying 'annuities' to those whom are still living).  The CPF is somewhat similar to the western taxation system where people are taxed as high as 40% .  The difference is, in the west, once you are retired, the state takes care of you (despite the sustainability is questioned). For the CPF, the current rate is that a majority of the of the old folks gets less than $500 per month.

The current rate that you have to keep in your CPF means you will get $1200 or there about... if you are only getting $500 ..one main situation I know is due to people not have enough inside their CPF to even meet the minimum as they took too much out to buy houses and other stuff they qualify to do. In order to have more you need to make more or not touch as much of what's in your CPF. I am one of those I know I will be able to take much put and still meet the minimum sum to keep inside for me to use after 65 yrs old and that being $1,250 and if I do not take anything out at 55 I will get about $2500 per month. Along with being still working and have a healthy saving, I am more then fine.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by upshot

[Guest mosquito detergency]

1 hour ago, robin said:

The title of this thread itself started by Guest seems to have a political agenda. I do not think we should continue. Maybe moderators should consider closing it. 

 

Yes, indeed!  Again stupid guests are posting shit again...

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, robin said:

The title of this thread itself started by Guest seems to have a political agenda. I do not think we should continue. Maybe moderators should consider closing it. 

 

Political agenda?   It seems that this thread deals with taxation ideology, social programs.  Where is the politics?  What is frightening here? 

[Zackling]

Can we put a stop to all political agendas in here.. that fellow must be someone from the system trying to test us & create fire amongst us. let's stand unite against such people who try to sow discord. 

[Guest Swiss roll]

Where is the political agenda? Dont act like fundamentalist who kept thinking gay people has agenda when we are trying to to share a legitimate view. Stop denial and get back to the topic.

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Guest Tomato said:

 

The CPF may be under your name, but it is designed such that one would not get the entire CPF back (despite the CPF Life paying 'annuities' to those whom are still living).  The CPF is somewhat similar to the western taxation system where people are taxed as high as 40% .  The difference is, in the west, once you are retired, the state takes care of you (despite the sustainability is questioned). For the CPF, the current rate is that a majority of the of the old folks gets less than $500 per month.

In France, the global tax rate was 45,3% in 2017. Among OECD countries, I think only Denmark is above us...

And the sustainability of the pension system is no more questioned, it is clearly leading to bankrupt if we go on retiring too early (before or at 62).

This being said, I don't really know where I would prefer living...

We have good wines, but you have bak kwa...

[Guest Perisian Pot]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

In France, the global tax rate was 45,3% in 2017. Among OECD countries, I think only Denmark is above us...

And the sustainability of the pension system is no more questioned, it is clearly leading to bankrupt if we go on retiring too early (before or at 62).

This being said, I don't really know where I would prefer living...

We have good wines, but you have bak kwa...

Bak Kwa is not a healthy food.  I would prefer pork chop or lamp chop with a good wine.  Your govt can set a retirement age at 65 and thereafter take care of the rest for you, more importantly the much needed healthcare cost that is "killing" many  Singapore old folks who haven't had much cash due to the high cost of living here.  I think France is less stressful in terms of pace and less laws to curtail the freedom of human right.  Did the old folks there need to pick up trash or clean toilet to survive?

[Phil]

Maybe bak kwa is not healthy, but it is good and I like it. With a good red wine, of course!

We had a retirement legal age at 65, but now it has been reduced to 62 for electoral reasons. When a government thinks of coming back to 65, we have mega demonstrations in the streets.

All this is financed by borrowing more and more money. Each French bears a public debth of around 30000€! We do not see old folks picking up trash nor cleaning toilets, but we live like selfish people, leaving an unbearable debth to our children.

In short: the TS is not wrong, paying 40% taxes (or even more!) could be a solution, but you need to make good use of this money...

[Guest funchub29]

All I want is that if I am poor, I can still enjoy my poor life and if I am rich, I also can do so. Basic necessities should be low cost but I still want the luxurious stuff to be around. When I was earning low or jobless, I enjoy my coffee at the local codfeeshop, eat at hawker centers, go to library read newspaper but when I am working, I can afford to eat at restaurants, drink Starbucks, watch movies etc. I will support the tax if the Gov can help more with some of us struggling to live up to the modern Singapore lifestyle... Eg, they can run more coffeshops at lower rental, instead of leasing it out and for the stall tenants to pay 4-5k per stall = increasing food cost. That takes manpower and cost so increasing tax for luxury items such as electronics, cars that are above a certain value etc. Same as our I come tax...when items goes above certain cost, the GST is higher. I preper a middle solution, don't tax everything but need some increase to help our fellow Singaporeans.

[SwimJimm]

On 5/13/2019 at 7:21 PM, Guest funchub29 said:

All I want is that if I am poor, I can still enjoy my poor life and if I am rich, I also can do so. Basic necessities should be low cost but I still want the luxurious stuff to be around. When I was earning low or jobless, I enjoy my coffee at the local codfeeshop, eat at hawker centers, go to library read newspaper but when I am working, I can afford to eat at restaurants, drink Starbucks, watch movies etc. I will support the tax if the Gov can help more with some of us struggling to live up to the modern Singapore lifestyle... Eg, they can run more coffeshops at lower rental, instead of leasing it out and for the stall tenants to pay 4-5k per stall = increasing food cost. That takes manpower and cost so increasing tax for luxury items such as electronics, cars that are above a certain value etc. Same as our I come tax...when items goes above certain cost, the GST is higher. I preper a middle solution, don't tax everything but need some increase to help our fellow Singaporeans.

You make a lot of sense. It's our social responsibility to pay it forward.

[suckmegood]

On 5/12/2019 at 10:30 PM, robin said:

The title of this thread itself started by Guest seems to have a political agenda. I do not think we should continue. Maybe moderators should consider closing it. 

 

I guess the opoositions political "ground work" for GE 2020 starts now. ROFL

[Guest Guest]

On 5/12/2019 at 10:30 PM, robin said:

The title of this thread itself started by Guest seems to have a political agenda. I do not think we should continue. Maybe moderators should consider closing it. 

 

34 minutes ago, suckmegood said:

 

I guess the opoositions political "ground work" for GE 2020 starts now. ROFL

 

If you don't want to see Guest starting any new threads, then you can always stick your ass in the Members Only Zone. What's so complicated about this notion?

 

Furthermore, if such threads started by Guests are groundwork done by opposition, does that mean that any Members starting such threads are from the ruling parties? 

[suckmegood]

7 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

 

If you don't want to see Guest starting any new threads, then you can always stick your ass in the Members Only Zone. What's so complicated about this notion?

 

Furthermore, if such threads started by Guests are groundwork done by opposition, does that mean that any Members starting such threads are from the ruling parties? 

 

Why so worked up, GUEST? Hit the jackpot ah? ROFL.

[TndrHrt89]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:59 PM, lohwpr said:

 

A capable person, one who is able to take care of himself and his love ones, would prefer a low tax system.

 

This is is because he has more deposable income, he is able to buy or acquire the things or services that he needs.  He feels more justified as he knows his tax contribution is used productively for worthwhile causes. 

 

A less capable person or a lazy person or a person with low aspirations, would prefer a high tax system, as they are able to coast and leech on other tax payers' money to subsidise their lifestyle (whilst demanding everything be made a “basic necessity”). 

 

There is no right or wrong here as being lazy and having low aspirations are a personal choice. But to make others pay for the lazy person’s decision will not sit well with anyone other than the said lazy person. 

 

 

Great post! 

 

Made some edits so it would sound less targeted at the original thread poster. 

[TndrHrt89]

On 5/12/2019 at 10:08 AM, Guest Taxed said:

At least, it makes me feel very very SAFE and know that I will be taken care of when I grew old and nobody will become poor for having basic necessity in life covered.

 

When you are (genuinely) unable to take care of yourself, it will be troublesome but there will be government programs and people you can talk to who will help. The SG gov has been faithful to its elders and implemented many safety nets. Talk to your MP and the volunteers to learn more. Seriously. 

 

I would be thankful if the Gov doesn’t implement your policies. Countries with bad Governments (and the accompanying bad policies) go to shit. 

 

You want peace of mind. 

 

Talk to a professional. 

 

You do not want:

-the Singapore dollar to devalue (to that of a worth-less country).

-Singapore to face economic or financial war.

 

[TndrHrt89]

On 5/12/2019 at 9:36 PM, Steve5380 said:

No rational person will support the solution of letting sick people die and euthanize the jobless,  they and their families.

 

a) if healthcare inflation continues to rise at the rate it’s going, many might rather just go and die in a corner really.

Which would you rather: a quick painless death or a life-time of servitude to a bad debt. 

 

b) hahaha... yeah, it’s clearly irrational to euthanise the jobless. i mean, even the worst dictators made the better and more productive decision of putting bums in forced labour camps right?   (#not sure if to laugh or cry). 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by TndrHrt89

[Guest Grow up]

Low salary or unemployment = laziness? Which Moron still believe in such shit in this modern world is beyond my educated understanding. As a matter of fact, it is the rich people who kept leeching on the poor to enrich themselves. Just look around this city, the answer is written everywhere.

[Guest Singaporeuncle]

U must be rich

[Guest guest ys]

in Finland you need to pay 40% of tax and the medical there is that you need to pay your medical fees to 800 euro then the rest will be subside by the gov. in the US you need to pay 35% of the tax and as for medical you need to buy medical insurance then you will enjoy the free medical coverage. if i am no wrong in US you need to pay 15% GST and 15% for tips in a restaurant.

 

[Guest Duh!]

5 hours ago, Guest guest ys said:

in Finland you need to pay 40% of tax and the medical there is that you need to pay your medical fees to 800 euro then the rest will be subside by the gov. in the US you need to pay 35% of the tax and as for medical you need to buy medical insurance then you will enjoy the free medical coverage. if i am no wrong in US you need to pay 15% GST and 15% for tips in a restaurant.

 

US has unemployment benefits. Singapore Simi lanjiao also don't have.

[Guest guest]

13 hours ago, Guest Duh! said:

US has unemployment benefits. Singapore Simi lanjiao also don't have.

 

because in the first place no one paid high taxes to  support a welfare system with unemployment  benefits,  where is the money going to come from?

 

Oh grow up please and do your sums, unemployment benefits going to come from where, can we use the money TOTO and 4D punters , loyally pay every weekend and wednesday to the tote board ?

 

Where huh is the money for benefits coming from ?

 

You think u UK citizens , but u you dont pay VAT tax at 20 % which is their GST,  not forgetting high income taxes for cradle to grave benefits .

 

Grow up and go get a job , then you will know what paying taxes is about .

 

Your parents paying for your phone and internet charges at home ?

[Guest Guest]

On 5/24/2019 at 4:27 PM, suckmegood said:

 

Why so worked up, GUEST? Hit the jackpot ah? ROFL.

 

And you are so worked up for what reason leh? Hit the jackpot too? ROFLMAO. 

[Guest guest ys]

16 hours ago, Guest Duh! said:

US has unemployment benefits. Singapore Simi lanjiao also don't have.

Singapore if you are unemployed you can seek for help from MSF and other gov organisation. of cos you must have a reason .

[Guest Huh??]

19 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Grow up and go get a job , then you will know what paying taxes is about .

Not everyone loves blow-job like you.  I rather become unemployed than to suck a boss dick for a minimum unsustainable living wages, if this what work is about in your definition.

[Guest Guest]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 1:59 PM, lohwpr said:

 

A capable person, one who is able to take care of himself and his love ones, would prefer a low tax system. As he has more deposable income, he is able to buy or acquire the things or services that he needs.  He feels more justified as he knows his tax contribution is not used to subsidise people like you. 

 

A less capable person or a lazy person or a person with low aspiration or ppl like you, would prefer a high tax system as you are leeching on other tax payers' money to subsidise your lifestyle. 

 

There is no right or wrong here as being lazy and having low aspiration is a choice and a lifestyle. 

But to make others pay for your decision doesn't sit well with me. 

 

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:00 PM, lohwpr said:

 

You are absolutely right. We are not capable to stop physical aging and the inevitable death from happening. And, of course, all the emotions that come along with it. As u have clearly pointed out, "Stress, depression, easily agitated, dissatisfaction and ............."

But our discussion is not about that.

 

It is about getting others paying higher tax so that u can take care of your siblings, parents and all that. 

This discussion is about whether one should work hard to put food on the table, save money, do proper financial planning and insurance coverage in case we fell ill so that we do not burden our love ones

 

or

 

depend on government to save us. ( make no mistakes, government to save u that means our tax contribution save you hor.....)

 

The things is, there are actually many countries that satisfies your idea of 40% tax to take care of your needs. But, as a capable person, I will be very upset to be living in that country as I know my hard earned money is used to subsided your problems. 

 

At the end of the day, yours parents, sibling and love ones are your problems, not ours. Why should we pay for it?

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:26 PM, TndrHrt89 said:

 

Great post! 

 

Made some edits so it would sound less targeted at the original thread poster. 

 

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:41 PM, TndrHrt89 said:

 

When you are (genuinely) unable to take care of yourself, it will be troublesome but there will be government programs and people you can talk to who will help. The SG gov has been faithful to its elders and implemented many safety nets. Talk to your MP and the volunteers to learn more. Seriously. 

 

I would be thankful if the Gov doesn’t implement your policies. Countries with bad Governments (and the accompanying bad policies) go to shit. 

 

You want peace of mind. 

 

Talk to a professional. 

 

You do not want:

-the Singapore dollar to devalue (to that of a worth-less country).

-Singapore to face economic or financial war.

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:56 PM, TndrHrt89 said:

 

a) if healthcare inflation continues to rise at the rate it’s going, many might rather just go and die in a corner really.

Which would you rather: a quick painless death or a life-time of servitude to a bad debt. 

 

b) hahaha... yeah, it’s clearly irrational to euthanise the jobless. i mean, even the worst dictators made the better and more productive decision of putting bums in forced labour camps right?   (#not sure if to laugh or cry). 

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 7:57 PM, Guest guest said:

 

because in the first place no one paid high taxes to  support a welfare system with unemployment  benefits,  where is the money going to come from?

 

Oh grow up please and do your sums, unemployment benefits going to come from where, can we use the money TOTO and 4D punters , loyally pay every weekend and wednesday to the tote board ?

 

Where huh is the money for benefits coming from ?

 

You think u UK citizens , but u you dont pay VAT tax at 20 % which is their GST,  not forgetting high income taxes for cradle to grave benefits .

 

Grow up and go get a job , then you will know what paying taxes is about .

 

Your parents paying for your phone and internet charges at home ?

 

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 11:13 PM, Guest guest ys said:

Singapore if you are unemployed you can seek for help from MSF and other gov organisation. of cos you must have a reason .

 

To those who have this notion that people who are unemployed and seeking unemployment benefits are "lazy", or this notion that "being lazy and having low aspiration is a choice and a lifestyle", or having some high and mighty notion that "as a capable person, I will be very upset to be living in that country as I know my hard earned money is used to subsided your problems", I can sincerely pray to all higher beings, and hope from the bottom of my heart, that life will deal with you what other middle-age PMETs here in Singapore are encountering now in Singapore. 

 

Your notion of people living off the system based on the hard-earned money of other might have some truth in other countries. But you know what is the key difference between those in other countries such as the USA, France, Denmark and that in Singapore? It's really simple: In those countries, the citizens are given priority in JOBS. In fact, in USA, companies need to PROVE that they have spent a substantial amount of time (was it 3 years?) to look for a suitable candidate BEFORE the immigrant is even given an employment pass to work there. And what about Singapore? There's nothing more than a wayang system that says a company must advertise for a position in some wayang government website for a 14 days (or maybe slightly longer) before they are allowed to hire a foreigner. 

 

So perhaps you MIGHT BE (not necessarily 100%) right to claim that people in other countries, despite all the protectionism in place, are still unwilling to work and trying to live off the system. And you MIGHT BE right to make such statements if you are living during LKY's time when job creation was one of his key priorities during those industrialization years.

 

But for those people repeating such propaganda in Singapore in this time and age, and in the face of mounting PMETs as well as fresh grads unemployment, in a country that neither provides job protection nor social security protection for the local, especially in the face of unneeded foreigners competing unfairly with locals due to nepotism and cheaper wages which can build them a home fortress in their homeland, I really herald for KARMA to step in to bite these brainwashed toxic propagandists soon.  

 

And if there's anyone who has been bitten by the situation before and can still proceed to repeat the same such things again here, I hope KARMA will come back and bite them again and again and again just so that they will learn their lessons in this lifetime, instead of any other. 

 

Good luck! Because KARMA's a bitch. 

 

 

[TndrHrt89]

14 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I can sincerely pray to all higher beings, and hope from the bottom of my heart, that life will deal with you what other middle-age PMETs here in Singapore are encountering now in Singapore. 

 

I think anyone including myself should pray for the same thing. i'm not sure about other's religion but if a higher being agrees with this, it is most likely because the person being dealt with (perhaps me..? ) lacks a perspective, and would benefit from the experience. It is a chance to grow as a person in wisdom and understanding. The experience might be painful but it is good. We should try to welcome it and bear it with patience.

 

 

15 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

So perhaps you MIGHT BE (not necessarily 100%) right to claim that people in other countries, despite all the protectionism in place, are still unwilling to work and trying to live off the system. And you MIGHT BE right to make such statements if you are living during LKY's time when job creation was one of his key priorities during those industrialization years.

 

But for those people repeating such propaganda in Singapore in this time and age, and in the face of mounting PMETs as well as fresh grads unemployment, in a country that neither provides job protection nor social security protection for the local, especially in the face of unneeded foreigners competing unfairly with locals due to nepotism and cheaper wages which can build them a home fortress in their homeland, I really herald for KARMA to step in to bite these brainwashed toxic propagandists soon.  

 

You are saying that the number of people sincerely trying to get a job, but yet unable to, is increasing.

This is due to:

   -a. (unfair) foreign competition

   -b. nepotism

 

 

You are saying that the solution is:

  -a. a 3 years lock in period for  co-operations to look for a suitable candidate locally before they are able to source from abroad

               OR

  -b. a 40% tax rate for all Singaporeans to provide for social security for locals

 

While these are logically valid ideas. However the fact is these ideas have been tried before in other populations and haven't led to the best outcomes  for the country as a whole.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I hope KARMA will come back and bite them again and again and again just so that they will learn their lessons in this lifetime, instead of any other. 

 

Good luck! Because KARMA's a bitch. 

 

 

Please don't defame Karma like that. Karma is not a Bitch. From Wikipedia, a Bitch is belligerent (hostile and aggressive), unreasonable, malicious, a control freak, rudely intrusive or aggressive. Karma is actually one of the fairer things in this universe. It is not aggressive; it is neutral. It is reasonable. It is not malicious (it is just fair). It is not a control freak. It lets you do what you want. There is a lot more to karma than people think. Most people think of karma as revenge. That is not it.

Karma is a consequence of a previous action and it is good. It helps people to learn what is good and what is bad. What is healthy and what is unhealthy.

Karma is like the pain you feel when you touch a hot kettle: the final outcome of karma is good.

 

[Guest statistics]

Singapore’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate stood at 2.2 percent in the first quarter 2019, unchanged from the previous period,

[Guest statistics]

20 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Your notion of people living off the system based on the hard-earned money of other might have some truth in other countries. But you know what is the key difference between those in other countries such as the USA, France, Denmark and that in Singapore? It's really simple: In those countries, the citizens are given priority in JOBS. In fact, in USA, companies need to PROVE that they have spent a substantial amount of time (was it 3 years?) to look for a suitable candidate BEFORE the immigrant is even given an employment pass to work there. And what about Singapore? There's nothing more than a wayang system that says a company must advertise for a position in some wayang government website for a 14 days (or maybe slightly longer) before they are allowed to hire a foreigner.

 

Unfortunately, the above is not correct.

 

There is no requirement in the USA to have a vacancy or for a US employer to have spent a substantial amount of time like 3 years to look for a suitable US citizen prior to hiring a foreigner.

 

France and Denmark doesn't have such requirements either.

 

The statements made are putting up untruths about the hiring of foreigners in the stated countries.

 

While it might not be easy to receive green cards in the USA or work permits in France or Denmark due to administrative burdens and required paper work, but the stated reason in above post is not correct.

Why should a French employer hire a foreigner in the first place, if there are sufficient job offers from French citizens due to the overall high unemployment in this country?

 

And it seems that young people in Singapore find much earlier a job then compared to some years back (due to a job crunch in certain sectors).

 

The unemployment  rate is 9.2% in France, 3.7% in Denmark and 3.9 % in USA. (Singapore 2.2 %).

 

The lay off factor in Singapore is due to a shifting focus in the economy with more automation and less "worker" requirements, so to speak following a modernisation of the economy.

All countries will suffer this issue sooner or later as less workers are required to complete certain functions.

 

However, all in all there are plenty of job vacancies in Singapore and there are vast job areas where Singaporeans do not have any interest to work in at all.

 

The real "wayang" is maybe at the point that the persons in charge are not very likely to talk about that issue. 

 

[Guest A fool's dream]

6 hours ago, Guest statistics said:

Singapore’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate stood at 2.2 percent in the first quarter 2019, unchanged from the previous period,

Another nerd who beleives in main stream media.  I can have a real unemployement rate of 5.5% and since I have control and and it is also within my power to fix it to look good,  let's say 2.2% is just about right to fool an otherwise obedient citizenry.

 

[TndrHrt89]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, Guest statistics said:

 

Unfortunately, the above is not correct.

 

There is no requirement in the USA to have a vacancy or for a US employer to have spent a substantial amount of time like 3 years to look for a suitable US citizen prior to hiring a foreigner.

 

France and Denmark doesn't have such requirements either.

 

The statements made are putting up untruths about the hiring of foreigners in the stated countries.

 

While it might not be easy to receive green cards in the USA or work permits in France or Denmark due to administrative burdens and required paper work, but the stated reason in above post is not correct.

Why should a French employer hire a foreigner in the first place, if there are sufficient job offers from French citizens due to the overall high unemployment in this country?

 

And it seems that young people in Singapore find much earlier a job then compared to some years back (due to a job crunch in certain sectors).

 

The unemployment  rate is 9.2% in France, 3.7% in Denmark and 3.9 % in USA. (Singapore 2.2 %).

 

The lay off factor in Singapore is due to a shifting focus in the economy with more automation and less "worker" requirements, so to speak following a modernisation of the economy.

All countries will suffer this issue sooner or later as less workers are required to complete certain functions.

 

However, all in all there are plenty of job vacancies in Singapore and there are vast job areas where Singaporeans do not have any interest to work in at all.

 

The real "wayang" is maybe at the point that the persons in charge are not very likely to talk about that issue. 

 

 

appreciated. 

[Guest Fubuc]

40% is very high already.

[Guest Guest]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, Guest statistics said:

Unfortunately, the above is not correct.

 

There is no requirement in the USA to have a vacancy or for a US employer to have spent a substantial amount of time like 3 years to look for a suitable US citizen prior to hiring a foreigner.

 

France and Denmark doesn't have such requirements either.

 

The statements made are putting up untruths about the hiring of foreigners in the stated countries.

 

I missed out on this for so many months. Now that it got floated up, I'd respond. 

 

Granting of an American H1-B Visa: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/how-to-guides/pages/howtosponsoranindividualforanh-1bvisa.aspx : "H-1B visa provisions authorize the employment of select qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States. The intent of this program is to help employers that cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce for certain specialty occupations." 

 

While it was not specifically stated on the website to be a "three-year" search, which was already raised as a questioned estimate in the first place, the onus of responsibility still lies in the company to provide evidence that the company has tried searching for a suitable local candidate unsuccessfully before the application for the H1-B visa can be approved. This is, of course, unless the American companies had by-passed this requirements nowadays which may explain why the application for the H1-B visa applications has now been further tightened in terms of the application processes because of the frequent abuses. 

 

As for Denmark, if you’re from outside of the EU, and going in to work in a role which is short of skilled staff, then you’ll find it easier to get a Danish work permit. These skills sets are published as an evolving ‘Positive List’, which is their list of work roles in shortage. But otherwise, the visa approval process will not be easy. Alternatively, if you’re going there to work in a role which is paid significantly above the average wage, or for an employer who has been approved by the government as an international recruiter, then perhaps you will be able to breeze through the visa application process. 

 

So please do not accuse others of spreading untruths, when you don't even know the mechanics of these professional work visa applications requirements of those countries in the first place. If you feel that it is so easy to find a job to hire foreigners in USA and Denmark and other countries, feel free to go apply for a job over there yourself. Compare the ease of those applications to those here in Singapore, where people can even find work using fake degrees. 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, Guest statistics said:

And it seems that young people in Singapore find much earlier a job then compared to some years back (due to a job crunch in certain sectors).

 

 

Really? This article seems to say otherwise:   https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/fewer-fresh-graduates-get-jobs-within-first-six-months-survey-9991694 

How far ago was your "some years back"? SARS period? Dot com crisis? Lehman Brothers collapses? 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, Guest statistics said:

The lay off factor in Singapore is due to a shifting focus in the economy with more automation and less "worker" requirements, so to speak following a modernisation of the economy.

All countries will suffer this issue sooner or later as less workers are required to complete certain functions.

 

Really? In that case, why even bring in any foreign workers here into Singapore at all, since you yourself has said that there is a " shifting focus in the economy with more automation and less "worker" requirements"? Is the "automation" really impacting the jobs so much that there are now  less "worker" requirements?? Are you sure that's the reason for the lay off factor in Singapore? 

[Guest Guest]

14 minutes ago, JackQuinn said:

According to the current rhythm of development, this thing is true. Many jobs have been already replaced by machines and this thing will continue in future as well.

 

Even if there is a replacement of jobs by machines now and in the future, the allowing of the foreign trash to come into Singapore to take over the jobs of Singaporeans now and in the past is unforgivable. 

[lonelyglobe]

Yes automation will take over eventually but wait, automation does not appear overnight and to get these automation started,  u need oversea IT talents and there is one country that is extremely good in IT. 

[Zyscgk]

So easy to start a bullshit baiting thread by some moron and some foreigner moron trying to weigh in on something they know shit about....🙄 Why do we even entertain a**holes like them?

 

We're a happy bunch for sure...GST or not, still happier than in a socialist scandi society lah...whatever freedom you think you have there, only applies if you're white or the token dark skin....

[auscent]

To pay high taxes in order to secure a more equal society with smaller rich poor gap - this is difficult in Spore. East Asian societies have a long history and penchant for imbalance of power.