Should LGBT pity Black American?

[Steve5380]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:58 AM, singalion said:

Guys,

Larry Loqus, Caught Lies, Steve53 please not again this Democrats vs Republican dispute and who was the better one towards ending discrimination against African American... You will never agree one direction, but you won't convince anyone either!

At least don't overdose it!

Try to stay at topic which is Blacks and gays.

 

Thanks.

 

You're welcome.   I would like to make you see that we have been on topic all along.

 

Loquacious Larry Laminator,  Caught Telling Lies and me we are equally LGBT and non-Black.

and the issues of  Democrats vs Republicans are equally relevant

for Black Americans and LGBTs.  We all share unfair discrimination.

 

And we LGBTs here are evaluating Democrats vs Republicans to see if we should pity Black Americans.  And THIS IS the topic.

 

 

On 6/3/2020 at 1:24 AM, singalion said:

 

The picture you copied seems to pretend it derives from any Government Authority.

 

It looks to me like some right wing extremist group prepared it to spread fake news or to take statistics out of context to spread a certain message.

And it omits the factual reason for certain situations (such as criminality, abuse, social status, wealth distribution...)

 

If you base your wisdom on such fake media, then you must be soon one of the lost cases. Lost in illusion.

 

The fake media did not say anything about education and funds available to African Americans for proper education, schools ...

 

I would be very careful with such things...  Not sure it can be attributed to "wisdom", more to stupidity.

 

 

Earlier you also participated in this conversation that now you call out of topic.  Your post here is also not directly related to LGBTs.

What happened?  Did you run out of intelligent ideas to discuss?

.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Steve5380

[Guest Hazily Instructor]

Interesting how he ignored the person who introduced the rightwing sound-bites into the thread and pushed your discussion into this tangent in the first place. i also believe the "history lesson" provides some interesting context into why the race situation is the way it is today in America.

 

7 hours ago, Guest Caught Telling Lies said:

1854: Republican Party founded as an anti-slavery political organization after disagreements on issue tore apart Whigs in prededing years.

1860: Abraham Lincoln elected as first Republican President after Democrats split into anti-slavery and pro-slavery factions.

1861: Southern states (falsely fearing Abraham Lincoln would quickly end slavery) commit treason, form Confederacy, and provoke US Civil War.

1865: Union defeats pro-slavery Confederate traitors to win US Civil War, Abraham Lincoln assassinated, Reconstruction begins.

1870: US Constitution's 15th Amendment completes trifecta "technically" establishing equal rights for Black Americans.

1877: Reconstruction ends after deal to install Republican Rutherfraud Hayes as President following disputed election of 1876.

1898: US Supreme Court's Plessy v. Ferguson decision officially entrenches "Separate But Equal" and "Jim Crow" in Southern states.

1919: Racist white Americans attack and in some cases murder Black soldiers returning from fighting for US in World War One.

1948: Democrat Harry Truman desegregates armed forces, Strom Thurmond leads Dixiecrats out of Democratic Party, Truman re-elected anyway.

1954: US Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education decision opens door to slowly start integrating American schools.

1956: Strom Thurmond and most of his Dixiecrat followers join Republican Party and he's elected Senator from South Carolina.

1960: Martin Luther King seeks help from Republican Richard Nixon, who ignores him, but Democrat John Kennedy reaches out instead.

1963: John Kennedy assassinated in Dallas during trip aimed at shoring up support from Texas leaders angry over his support of Civil Rights.

1964: Democrat Lyndon Johnson, who became President after Kennedy's assassination the previous year, signs the Civil Rights Act.

1964: Lyndon Johnson re-elected in landslide over conservative icon Barry Goldwater despite Deep South flipping to Republicans.

1965: Malcolm X, a Black Muslim Civil Rights leader who earlier renounced violence and embraced peace, assassinated in Harlem.

1968: Martin Luther King assassinated in April in Memphis two months before Robert Kennedy assassinated in June in Los Angeles.

1968: Republican Richard Nixon finally elected President by using "Southern Strategy" and racist "Law & Order" theme in campaign.

1980: Republican Ronald Reagan launches Presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where Civil Rights workers were murdered.

1988: Republican George H.W. Bush wins election to succeed Ronald Reagan powered in no small part by racist Willie Horton ad campaign.

1993: Democrat Bill Clinton becomes first US President to appoint truly diverse Cabinet including multiple women and Black Americans.

2008: Democrat Barack Obama elected as first Black President while Republicans vow to oppose everything he does even if it's good for US.

2016: NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick begins kneeling during US National Anthem in protest of police brutality against Black Americans.

2017: Republican Donald Trump, who became President via Electoral College, uses phrase "very fine people" to describe Charlottesville Neo-Nazis.

2020: Minneapolis police intentionally torture and murder unarmed Black citizen George Floyd sparking protests across US and around world.

 

The history lesson only starts in 1854, and doesn't go back to 1619 or earlier, so a lot of the dehumanization and racism caused by slavery is missed. But the segregation is definitely there as well as lots of violence and murders. I think people have had enough and are willing to die over it.

[mijsdlog]

On 6/7/2020 at 2:46 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

I agree.  That first video of Larry Elder @upshot posted shows him in a rather bad light.  Defending the bulk of republican, conservative ideologies while condemning the bulk of democrat ideologies.  And now in his second video posted he comes about as more humane, explaining the details of his life that made the one he is now.  He becomes more understandable.  This does not mean that one has to agree with his own ideology, he can pick out details of the bulk positions on either side to defend his own beliefs. He is an exception to the rule, and he is no more part of the problem.  But he can talk about it.

 

Well, certainly in this video he is giving a lot of good advice, no doubt about it. Bravo to all that about humility, tenacity and letting go grudges. No objections. But I don't necessarily agree with where he is (appearing to, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) assigning blame. Lack of father figure? It wasn't just that in the case that friend who fell behind. It was a disruptive home - note that he speaks of the mother's alcoholism and the revolving door of boyfriends. I suspect that he may be a staunch proponent of the traditional family structure, possibly disapproving of lesbians raising kids. Maybe not, but just by the way he is framing his points, I would not be surprised. Notice the example he gave regarding his encounter with racism is how he, by his own admission, was a wuss for feeling hurt that some kid called him the N word. If that was the worst, he certainly was lucky. And that example about how it was a bad idea to raise the minimum wage, and taking the opportunity for a shot at Clinton and Obama with that. Sure, it wasn't well thought out. He might even want to say that Clinton and Obama rushed it to score easy points with their voter base. This is still nothing compared to the egregiousness of what the current administration has done.   

 

Granted, this video may have been recorded a while ago, and there are so many issues to address. Perhaps he would have addressed the urgent issue of police brutality and racial bias in the system in light of the current situation, if he held the talk today. Because if this was where he is focusing his message at this time, he is choosing to turn a blind eye to that injustice.

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, mijsdlog said:

 

 And that example about how it was a bad idea to raise the minimum wage, and taking the opportunity for a shot at Clinton and Obama with that. Sure, it wasn't well thought out. He might even want to say that Clinton and Obama rushed it to score easy points with their voter base. This is still nothing compared to the egregiousness of what the current administration has done.   

 

 

The conservative republican Blacks learn to assign blame the way their White ones do.  And minimum wage is one of the blames.

How does one come up with an equitable wage?  The productivity of the work does not cut it anymore since we have machines, computers, that are much more productive than people yet they don't earn any wages.  Isn't this an unfair competition with people that forces one to find a solution, like a "minimum wage"?

 

Perhaps the minimum wage can be naturally estimated from a "living wage",  that is, the money a full time worker must be paid to live,  without having to take on multiple jobs. In primitive societies the "minimum wage" could be the number of animals the male must hunt to feed his family, or the amount of food the family must cultivate to have enough to eat.

 

What I would like to see is the existence of a MAXIMUM wage,  or a maximum INCOME.  Maybe this maximum income could be set at one million dollars a year?  This high income can assure that there is no economical hardship.   After all,  what makes the work of a CEO so much more deserving than the work of his least payed employee that justifies it to be 100 times higher? Maybe this "deserving" is simply better opportunities and less scruples? 

 

And the conservative republican definition of a "welfare state" may also deserve more scrutiny.  Aren't the Scandinavian states and some other progressive countries even more "welfare states" than the US?   Yet this does not seem to have created in them an inferior subclass of individuals who "take advantage", "are lazy". 

.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Steve5380

[Guest Caught Telling Lies]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

The conservative republican Blacks learn to assign blame the way their White ones do. And minimum wage is one of the blames. How does one come up with an equitable wage? The productivity of the work does not cut it anymore since we have machines, computers, that are much more productive than people yet they don't earn any wages. Isn't this an unfair competition with people that forces one to find a solution, like a "minimum wage"?

 

What I would like to see is the existence of a MAXIMUM wage,  or a maximum INCOME. Maybe this maximum income could be set at one million dollars a year? This high income can assure that there is no economical hardship. After all,  what makes the work of a CEO so much more deserving than the work of his least payed employee that justifies it to be 100 times higher? Maybe this "deserving" is simply better opportunities and less scruples?

 

I fail to see how raising the minimum wage, in other words paying workers the minimum amount of money they need to afford the frugalist existence possible, is a bad thing. Oh. Wait. It's bad for business owners because they might need to wait a while longer to buy their third yacht or fourth golf club membership.

 

As for a maximum wage, use a sports term, and call it a salary cap. Oh. Wait. That only applies to the players (workers). But never the team CEOs (business owners). I also think AOC should use the sports term "luxury tax" instead of "marginal tax rate" which regular people don't understand and can be deceived on.

[Steve5380]

4 minutes ago, Guest Caught Telling Lies said:

 

I fail to see how raising the minimum wage, in other words paying workers the minimum amount of money they need to afford the frugalist existence possible, is a bad thing. Oh. Wait. It's bad for business owners because they might need to wait a while longer to buy their third yacht or fourth golf club membership.

 

As for a maximum wage, use a sports term, and call it a salary cap. Oh. Wait. That only applies to the players (workers). But never the team CEOs (business owners). I also think AOC should use the sports term "luxury tax" instead of "marginal tax rate" which regular people don't understand and can be deceived on.

 

LOL!!  I like your choice of words:  "salary cap",  "luxury tax".  Maybe you can send AOC a letter about them?

 

(some hundred years earlier you would have been burned at the stake for "heretic")

[Guest Overdosed Yourself]

On 6/8/2020 at 12:19 PM, Steve5380 said:

LOL!!  I like your choice of words: "salary cap", "luxury tax". Maybe you can send AOC a letter about them?

 

It might be better for an American to get in touch. Just our country's luck, her Republican opponent would learn that a Singaporean wrote a letter to AOC, and try to turn it into a foreign money donation scandal. Doesn't matter that it's not true. The people who hate her will say anything if they think it can help them win.

[Guest Loquacious Larry Laminator]

So now it turns out that, as rumoured, the murderous policeman Chauvin knew Floyd from their time working security at the same nightclub. Floyd was a bouncer and Chauvin was the policeman assigned there by the department. It was a mostly Hispanic and Black nightclub, and murderous policeman Chauvin was known to get unnecessarily violent with the customers, so Floyd among others told him he needed to tone it down.

 

I'm going to guess that when Chauvin showed up at the convenience store to answer the call about the allegedly fake $20 bill, and saw that Floyd was the suspect, he viewed it as a chance to get revenge on one of the people who previously disagreed with him at his side job. Chauvin then murdered Floyd in front of the entire world and expected to get away with it simply because he was a white policeman killing a Black suspect.

 

Even if this turns out to be a revenge killing, which seems very likely now, don't let it distract from the real problem. A revenge killing still shows America's policemen are out of control. He should have taken Floyd to jail if he did something wrong. Not asphyxiated and killed him. Then you have the Buffalo police and what they did to the old man. Not to mention the tear gas and beatings at the White House. The problem is nationwide.

[Steve5380]

Emmanuel Acho...  what an interesting black man, and what powerful messages he is sending...

 

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/education/austin-texas-race-black-man-uncomfortable-conversations-emmanuel-acho-ut/269-67e7ced6-af56-4a70-b9b2-d8e3a443e127

 

and:

 

 

[SazNura]

Of  course we should support, too much hate in the world, we condemn all manners of discrimination.

 

[wilfgene]

7 hours ago, SazNura said:

Of  course we should support, too much hate in the world, we condemn all manners of discrimination.

 

There are hell lot of discrimination within this community.

Both coasts of the Straits are built on racism.

Exercising vigilance while not belittling others to raise own profiles suffixes.

Nobody else brings up Mayor Pete's comparison between 2 communities.

You people are rattling up remnants of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer in me.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, wilfgene said:

There are hell lot of discrimination within this community.

Both coasts of the Straits are built on racism.

Exercising vigilance while not belittling others to raise own profiles suffixes.

Nobody else brings up Mayor Pete's comparison between 2 communities.

You people are rattling up remnants of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer in me.

 

Rattling up in you  brings a connotation of something hollow in you.  Is this possible?

[upshot]

 

Pay attention to the part when he talk about a Mormon comedian and what he did to "normalized" his religion. It is my WISH for Gay folk and Left Wing to do to find their place i this world and not poke an dpoke at people and cause more divide then bring people together.

Edited June 11, 2020 by upshot

[upshot]

 

 

 

I do not search the whole internet to look for things to post according to what I want to represent a topic to win an argument. I have been following this western stuff for 2 decades. I think they tell it better than I can, and they make good starting point. You have some hardcore left wings that has made nest here and trying to spread false narratives and poisoning the water then; then to give you the time of day to hear your point of view and consider it. So I do a burst writing and then I shut up and post vid. This people can say what they want, FREE SPEECH I let them but I throw back my reason for my support to the right or liberal center and I leave it to people who want to know the truth to go find the truth themselves.  Read wide and deep as always and be open to hearing all sides. Btw.. I use to be very left leaning. Obama woke me up.

Edited June 11, 2020 by upshot

[upshot]

 

[yuquidam]

I received info (note: not verified)  that in 2019 a number of whites in US died while under arrest too. Whether black or white I do not think anyone who is UNARMED should die this way while being apprehended.

[Guest Guest]

 

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, upshot said:

 

Pay attention to the part when he talk about a Mormon comedian and what he did to "normalized" his religion. It is my WISH for Gay folk and Left Wing to do to find their place i this world and not poke an dpoke at people and cause more divide then bring people together.

 

What a waste of time!   These two guys chattered for 10 minutes and said practically nothing.  Since when "find one's place in this world" is to keep one's mouth shut?   Who cares what is the political opinion of Michael Jordan?  And Barrack Obama frequently speaks against racism, in favor of Blacks.

.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, upshot said:

 

I do not search the whole internet to look for things to post according to what I want to represent a topic to win an argument. I have been following this western stuff for 2 decades. I think they tell it better than I can, and they make good starting point. You have some hardcore left wings that has made nest here and trying to spread false narratives and poisoning the water then; then to give you the time of day to hear your point of view and consider it. So I do a burst writing and then I shut up and post vid. This people can say what they want, FREE SPEECH I let them but I throw back my reason for my support to the right or liberal center and I leave it to people who want to know the truth to go find the truth themselves.  Read wide and deep as always and be open to hearing all sides. Btw.. I use to be very left leaning. Obama woke me up.

 

It shows how extremist you are the fact that you tag everyone else who doesn't share your ideology as "extremist", "left wing", "water poisoner",  and other dumb names. 

 

This guy Coleman Hughes in your two videos above,  is a black man who has made himself famous for telling anti-black conservative republicans WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR THE MOST.   He speaks against the claim of blacks that they are racially discriminated.  He is a traitor to his race.  What he does is not much different from what some fearful gays in the closet do by being openly homophobic to make themselves be accepted as "righteous".

 

I have not found any "hardcore left wing" person here.  Those of us who criticize your posts we are simply progressives and somewhat liberal.  To side with George Folyd is not "the left".  And a good example of this is the Catholic Church.  Pope Francis has shown solidarity with George Floyd and the people who oppose racism:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-message-to-us-catholics-on-racism-and-donald-trump-after-killing-of-george-floyd/

 

(See in the above article how unhappy Pope Francis looks standing besides Trump and his cronies)

 

 

 

At the end of the video,  Francis mentions the Virgin of Guadalupe.  This especially touched my heart,  since my late bf was a devote follower of her,  and every year we would drive from Houston to San Antonio to take part of the ceremony in her honor at a famous church dedicated to her.

.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Steve5380

[doncoin]

I don't think the word "pity" is used in the correct sense. I think a more appropriate word is "empathise."

 

Should we as LGBT community empathise with the African America community? 

 

So here is a little context of things. Watch the video. 

 

 

 

[Guest Hazily Instructor]

+

[Steve5380]

LOL!  These comics are great.  That's today's reality!

[Steve5380]

7 hours ago, doncoin said:

I don't think the word "pity" is used in the correct sense. I think a more appropriate word is "empathise."

 

Should we as LGBT community empathise with the African America community? 

 

So here is a little context of things. Watch the video. 

 

 

Indeed...  she is full of heavy context!

 

Most of us white folks in America we can say:  "I DID NOT KNOW" !!

New things are coming out every day about the nature of our police.  Things that have been carefully kept hidden. 

Many police forces here are LIKE THE MAFIA.  

There is little justification for privileges that give the police incredible immunity.

One knows that they don't get to pay for certain services, and one thinks "well, these brave dedicated protectors of the public, why not?"

But one didn't realize that they legally get away with murder!  They can commit crimes and be free of prosecution.

With the revelation of heinous behavior by some police,  the authorities say "it is only a few bad apples,  the majority are honest servants"

Oh yes?  Then why weird laws and regulations and contracts are made SPECIFICALLY to protect these bad apples?

Why cannot the "bad apples" be fired?  Why cannot they be prosecuted?  Why their behavior records are kept secret?

And then there is this constant shameful lying.  Police reports full of falsities, in case of fatalities, the causes of death are "natural",  

arms are planted besides the unarmed victims of police crime.  And plenty of false "resisting arrest" are made.

But now the public is starting to know. And with knowledge there will come power to change.

 

Should we LGBTs empathize with the Black community, even if some of them are homophobic?

Should the Black community empathize with us LGBTs,  even if some of us are racists?

Maybe if something evokes our empathy we should embrace it, and not debate if it is in general reciprocated or not.

[InBangkok]

I was surprised when I saw the subject of this thread. The LGBT community has been harassed and condemned for centuries but that did not necessarily mean short or longer term male/male relationships could not take place. Often they did.

 

As far as black or African American people are concerned, I think you have to look at history. Imagine what life was like centuries ago for those captured in their home countries, torn from families, shipped liked rats across an ocean and then made to work for peanuts as slaves for rich white men for the rest of their lives. To be nothing more than a commodity to be bought and sold at someone else's pleasure. It is little wonder that these slaves turned to the one organisation that gave them at least a semblance of hope - the Christian church. In effect it was their salvation - in the next world if not in this. So from early on they were imbued with the teachings of the bible, hammered into them week after week after week. 

 

And what did the Church preach? In part, the evils of homosexuality. Is it any wonder that the views put forward by the Church were carried down through the generations, becoming stronger each time? I am neither black nor an American. But I can understand why there may be more black Americans who profess to be anti the LGBT community than, say, white Americans.

 

The suggesting that a black man murdered by a white policemen blocking his access to air for over 9 minutes is getting a taste of his own medicine is, frankly, nonsense!  I can understand how this one event has evoked such worldwide condemnation and revulsion. I cannot understand how it has finally started a movement that may result in massive change worldwide. The statue of one slave trader in England which has been in position for 125 years was this week torn down and thrown into a river. Edward Colston also used the profits from his people business to found schools and other philanthropic works. To me that matters nothing. The man traded in human lives and should not be honoured with anything. 

[mijsdlog]

8 hours ago, InBangkok said:

As far as black or African American people are concerned, I think you have to look at history. Imagine what life was like centuries ago for those captured in their home countries, torn from families, shipped liked rats across an ocean and then made to work for peanuts as slaves for rich white men for the rest of their lives. To be nothing more than a commodity to be bought and sold at someone else's pleasure. It is little wonder that these slaves turned to the one organisation that gave them at least a semblance of hope - the Christian church. In effect it was their salvation - in the next world if not in this. So from early on they were imbued with the teachings of the bible, hammered into them week after week after week. 

 

 

Yes, indeed. Life was very tough and the church offered a valuable support system that many could not do without. It was so tied to survival in a way that many submitted unconditionally to the rules. Depending on who was in charge, those rules - typically an interpretation of what was written in that particular version of the Bible - could be grounded in the desire to protect and nurture... or to manipulate and profit. When people are in survival mode, they will generally not have the presence of mind to think about how other groups might be subjected to discrimination. Even the most "woke" have blind spots - maybe due to their own cultural conditioning or simply lack of information reaching them on those issues. 

 

The capacity for empathy is important, and also the willingness to listen and learn. Hopefully when the oppressed are rid of the oppression, they can exercise empathy and be willing to see the other forms of oppression that are present around them. 

[doncoin]

13 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Indeed...  she is full of heavy context!

 

Most of us white folks in America we can say:  "I DID NOT KNOW" !!

New things are coming out every day about the nature of our police.  Things that have been carefully kept hidden. 

Many police forces here are LIKE THE MAFIA.  

There is little justification for privileges that give the police incredible immunity.

One knows that they don't get to pay for certain services, and one thinks "well, these brave dedicated protectors of the public, why not?"

But one didn't realize that they legally get away with murder!  They can commit crimes and be free of prosecution.

With the revelation of heinous behavior by some police,  the authorities say "it is only a few bad apples,  the majority are honest servants"

Oh yes?  Then why weird laws and regulations and contracts are made SPECIFICALLY to protect these bad apples?

Why cannot the "bad apples" be fired?  Why cannot they be prosecuted?  Why their behavior records are kept secret?

And then there is this constant shameful lying.  Police reports full of falsities, in case of fatalities, the causes of death are "natural",  

arms are planted besides the unarmed victims of police crime.  And plenty of false "resisting arrest" are made.

But now the public is starting to know. And with knowledge there will come power to change.

 

Should we LGBTs empathize with the Black community, even if some of them are homophobic?

Should the Black community empathize with us LGBTs,  even if some of us are racists?

Maybe if something evokes our empathy we should embrace it, and not debate if it is in general reciprocated or not.

 

The union has all these rules/policies etc.  in place to protect their members. While it is true that there are bad apples amongst the police force, however, from a union perspective, a paying member is a good member. The only way the union's protection are removed is when the cop leaves or gets fired from the force. This is to my understanding. 

 

We hear of the unjust treatment of African Americans regularly in the news cycle. However, the impact has been minimal compared to what happened in the aftermath of George Floyd. I don't think most people are racist by design. It is something taught and passed down. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by doncoin

[Guest Uncle]

9 hours ago, doncoin said:

 

The union has all these rules/policies etc.  in place to protect their members. While it is true that there are bad apples amongst the police force, however, from a union perspective, a paying member is a good member. The only way the union's protection are removed is when the cop leaves or gets fired from the force. This is to my understanding. 

 

We hear of the unjust treatment of African Americans regularly in the news cycle. However, the impact has been minimal compared to what happened in the aftermath of George Floyd. I don't think most people are racist by design. It is something taught and passed down. 

 

 

We still judge a person's value by skin color

[Guest Overdosed Yourself]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:34 PM, Steve5380 said:

LOL! These comics are great. That's today's reality!

 

I agree. Especially the "Green Eggs & Ham" parody.

 

On 6/12/2020 at 2:18 AM, InBangkok said:

As far as black or African American people are concerned, I think you have to look at history. Imagine what life was like centuries ago for those captured in their home countries, torn from families, shipped liked rats across an ocean and then made to work for peanuts as slaves for rich white men for the rest of their lives. To be nothing more than a commodity to be bought and sold at someone else's pleasure. It is little wonder that these slaves turned to the one organisation that gave them at least a semblance of hope - the Christian church. In effect it was their salvation - in the next world if not in this. So from early on they were imbued with the teachings of the bible, hammered into them week after week after week.

 

And what did the Church preach? In part, the evils of homosexuality. Is it any wonder that the views put forward by the Church were carried down through the generations, becoming stronger each time? I am neither black nor an American. But I can understand why there may be more black Americans who profess to be anti the LGBT community than, say, white Americans.

 

Let's also not forget that there are plenty of African Americans who are also members of the LGBTQ Community as well. It isn't like somebody has to choose one or the other. The LGBTQ struggle for acceptance cuts across all races and ethnicities. The only really anti-gay African Americans that I've ever encountered are those steeped in macho sub-cultures like sports, hip-hop, and crime.

 

But even in those areas you have a small amount of men having gay sex in secret, but just like a certain right-wing BW member, they don't want such topics ever mentioned or seen in public. But in general, my experience with African Americans has been that, like many Singaporeans, they follow the status quo on LGBTQ matters, but don't actively engage in hatred (mostly a white problem).

 

15 hours ago, doncoin said:

The union has all these rules/policies etc. in place to protect their members. While it is true that there are bad apples amongst the police force, however, from a union perspective, a paying member is a good member. The only way the union's protection are removed is when the cop leaves or gets fired from the force. This is to my understanding.

 

We hear of the unjust treatment of African Americans regularly in the news cycle. However, the impact has been minimal compared to what happened in the aftermath of George Floyd. I don't think most people are racist by design. It is something taught and passed down.

 

I have read that cities where the police union is a merely subset of a general municipal workers union seem to fare better in dealing with bad cops, although that might just be anecdotal evidence, as compared to cities where police unions are a force of their own with a separate power base.

 

As for what's happened since George Floyd, many white people have seen for the first time undeniable video proof of how bad the police are towards some unarmed African American crime suspects, and that helped shift public opinion towards what activists had been arguing for decades.

[Steve5380]

15 hours ago, Guest Uncle said:

We still judge a person's value by skin color

 

And not only by skin color.

One can be judgmental by preferring Asians of light or tanned color, but not too dark,  with very soft, hairless skin,  muscular but slim,  no tattoos, and a beautiful smile revealing nice teeth while speaking in a cute singlish.

 

8 hours ago, Guest Overdosed Yourself said:

 

As for what's happened since George Floyd, many white people have seen for the first time undeniable video proof of how bad the police are towards some unarmed African American crime suspects, and that helped shift public opinion towards what activists had been arguing for decades.

 

You got it right.  No way to hide the constant flashing of videos full of evidence.   And some commentators agree with you:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/protests-rodney-king-freddie-gray-optimism-blake/index.html

 

American whities have been awakened this time, and we will not allow this movement to vanish again. 

.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Steve5380

[upshot]

 

 

The full interview... :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvjtYNwtj8   

 

As more young and brilliant blacks starts to unshackle themselves from old thinking and see themselves as being able to be better than where they come from. The blacks will help themselves out of their own problems. If more of them can see they are not victims and can make it and support themselves strand up for themselves, then and only then, can they do better. The only one really hold them back are themselves. Just like anyone of us in our own way. Will they have problems like bias and discrimination, sure. So does all other races still including us Chinese, Malay, India....etc. If you fail or do not want to work hard and think taking the easy way out and place the victim card, you will get by but you will never see the light or see a better you. The push back is upon us. People wanting to help the blacks are not always about helping them. Just like being slave they still are slave to these people who are using them to make themselves look like saviors and making more money and holding power. The same is happening with LGBTQ and they do not know they are being used by the left and corporations.

 

BTW, you know that all this is riot and police problems..etc are all mainly happening in Democrats left wing states? You can not blame Trump all the time. Understand how the states like Minnesota have governor, senators...etc who are all Democrats. They are authorized to run the country and make the law and take taxes...ONLY in situations where the President feels he wants to come in and take control, then he does it. He can recommend they follow what he advise they do BUT the state has the right to do it their own way. Check and you see like one of the highest death of black person are in States that has black leaders, senator, mayors, black Police chiefs and most black police officers. So where is the systemic racism problem in those states then?

 

Watch where you get your news... if that is all you have to go on. If you do not follow all these yourself over the years and have memories to recall from, you have no idea what you are talking about. As I say the push back is coming... I am just sitting back to watch the Democrats eat themselves and lose the next election with a man who is getting senile.

 

 

[upshot]

 

I admire this man of his generation alongside Milton Friedman. This is a chapter reading from one of his books.

Slavery is STILL going on in the world and not just someone specially only in USA. Who is making a big deal out of it where there are others who are still suffering from it.

Edited June 13, 2020 by upshot

[upshot]

 

[upshot]

 

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, upshot said:

 

As more young and brilliant blacks starts to unshackle themselves from old thinking and see themselves as being able to be better than where they come from. The blacks will help themselves out of their own problems. If more of them can see they are not victims and can make it and support themselves strand up for themselves, then and only then, can they do better. The only one really hold them back are themselves. Just like anyone of us in our own way. Will they have problems like bias and discrimination, sure. So does all other races still including us Chinese, Malay, India....etc. If you fail or do not want to work hard and think taking the easy way out and place the victim card, you will get by but you will never see the light or see a better you. The push back is upon us. People wanting to help the blacks are not always about helping them. Just like being slave they still are slave to these people who are using them to make themselves look like saviors and making more money and holding power. The same is happening with LGBTQ and they do not know they are being used by the left and corporations.

 

BTW, you know that all this is riot and police problems..etc are all mainly happening in Democrats left wing states? You can not blame Trump all the time. Understand how the states like Minnesota have governor, senators...etc who are all Democrats. They are authorized to run the country and make the law and take taxes...ONLY in situations where the President feels he wants to come in and take control, then he does it. He can recommend they follow what he advise they do BUT the state has the right to do it their own way. Check and you see like one of the highest death of black person are in States that has black leaders, senator, mayors, black Police chiefs and most black police officers. So where is the systemic racism problem in those states then?

 

Watch where you get your news... if that is all you have to go on. If you do not follow all these yourself over the years and have memories to recall from, you have no idea what you are talking about. As I say the push back is coming... I am just sitting back to watch the Democrats eat themselves and lose the next election with a man who is getting senile.

 

 

That guy in the video is black,  but the only brilliant may be his face covered with some products.

 

You are wrongly thinking that we victims of homophobia can stand up by ourselves.  A good example is gay marriage.  In the US, same-sex marriage barely passed by a majority of WHITE GUYS,  and it is unknown how many of the judges are/were gay, but surely the majority is/was straight.

 

I live in a RED state, Texas,  and police brutality happens here too, of course.

 

I doubt that you have a more trustful source of news than we have.  Here in Houston we have The Chronicle, the only major newspaper, which is CONSERVATIVE.  Yet, it publishes the same news as other more liberal papers.  FACTS ARE FACTS, although there is always room to wiggle.  But nobody questions that Fox News,  Newsmax, have some of the highest rates of lies.

 

This conspiracy theory that the poor old 75 y.o. man that was thrown by police was a leftist activist who was scanning the police's equipment... this shameless lie came from conservative sources,  not liberal sources.

 

55 minutes ago, upshot said:

 

Video "Please stop helping us. How liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed"

 

 

Please ask Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker,  and so many others how liberals made it harder for them to succeed.

Why has there never been a BLACK GOP president?  Why are there so few BLACK GOP members of Congress?  Why are there so few BLACK GOP people in the president's cabinet? 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Steve5380

[Guest Hazily Instructor]

On 6/11/2020 at 3:42 AM, upshot said:

I do not search the whole internet to look for things to post according to what I want to represent a topic to win an argument.

 

The fact that you type that statement so defensively proves otherwise, because if you really waste time closely following the right wing rubbish you've been posting here, your psychological problems run a whole lot deeper than internalized homophobia.

 

On 6/11/2020 at 10:55 AM, Steve5380 said:

What a waste of time!   These two guys chattered for 10 minutes and said practically nothing.  Since when "find one's place in this world" is to keep one's mouth shut?   Who cares what is the political opinion of Michael Jordan?  And Barrack Obama frequently speaks against racism, in favor of Blacks.

 

Too bad somebody doesnt keep up with real news. Just two weeks ago, Michael Jordan pledged to donate $100,000,000 to organizations that fight for racial equality and social justice, so I guess that means he's now a "virtue signalling SJW trying to prove his righteousness" or whatever that rubbish phrase is supposed to be.

 

It is well-known that Jordan never spoke up about any political topics during his playing days, because he wanted to sell as many shoes as possible to as many customers as possible, regardless of their social views. But now that he's older, and owns a team, he knows that his legacy is at stake and he needs to do a touch more.

 

Several years ago, I didn't like LeBron James because of how he came across on the court, which was basically as a primadonna. But his willingness to speak out on social issues, and try to help his hometown by building and funding a school won me over, especially since he won't "shut up and dribble" like Fox News demands.

 

The fact that James, Dwyane Wade, and so many of the younger NBA players are speaking out on racial issues (and even in support of LGBTQ issues in the case of Wade due to his child) makes the contrast with Jordan's generation even starker, and connects back to the legacy of the Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar eras.

[Steve5380]

47 minutes ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

 

The fact that you type that statement so defensively proves otherwise, because if you really waste time closely following the right wing rubbish you've been posting here, your psychological problems run a whole lot deeper than internalized homophobia.

 

 

Did he ever win an argument?  I don't remember.  Of course he makes good posts here and there.  But when there is controversy, usually because he tries to impose his white conservative views...   he seems to fail miserably.

 

50 minutes ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

 

Too bad somebody doesnt keep up with real news. Just two weeks ago, Michael Jordan pledged to donate $100,000,000 to organizations that fight for racial equality and social justice, so I guess that means he's now a "virtue signalling SJW trying to prove his righteousness" or whatever that rubbish phrase is supposed to be.

 

Several years ago, I didn't like LeBron James because of how he came across on the court, which was basically as a primadonna. But his willingness to speak out on social issues, and try to help his hometown by building and funding a school won me over, especially since he won't "shut up and dribble" like Fox News demands.

 

The fact that James, Dwyane Wade, and so many of the younger NBA players are speaking out on racial issues (and even in support of LGBTQ issues in the case of Wade due to his child) makes the contrast with Jordan's generation even starker, and connects back to the legacy of the Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar eras.

 

I used to never think much of Black athletes.  But now I like some successful Blacks much more than many successful Whites.

[Steve5380]

Let's see how @upshot answers this one,  a brand new News that CNN published today:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/media/seattle-fox-news-autonomous-zone-protest/index.html

 

"Fox News publishes digitally altered and misleading images of Seattle demonstrations"

 

They took pictures of violent demonstrations in Minnesota and made them appear like they were from Seattle,  where peaceful protesters occupied a police station and took possession of several blocks around it.   In other photos that showed the scene in Seattle, Fox News digitally added an image of a man armed with an assault rifle.

 

This journalistic fraud can be believed without reservations,  because it can be proven even if Fox News hastily removed the pictures after being questioned about them.  

 

Fox News....  an abomination that creates and propagates false conspiracy theories to help Donald Trump keep indoctrinating his following suckers.

.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Fox News....  an abomination that creates and propagates false conspiracy theories to help Donald Trump keep indoctrinating his following suckers.

 

I suppose it should not concern me, but I also find Fox News a disgraceful abomination. A prime example of big business corporations attempting to exert political influence. Fox is part of the right-wing Rupert Murdoch empire, a man who had Britain's Prime Minister Margret Thatcher virtually in his pocket. I spend a lot of time in hotels each year. I always try to avoid those carrying the Fox News network. At the end of last year I was in a rather new, trenfy hotel in Chiang Mai. When I got to my room I was appalled to see the TV programming carried Fox but neither the BBC news channel nor CNN. I informed the manager that I would never stay at his hotel again.

 

In discussing Fox News, isn't part of the problem in the United States the Constitutional Amendment which permits free speech. This results in no end of crazies - left and right - putting forward often the most ridiculous  views and giving the impression they are spouting the truth.

[Steve5380]

12 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

In discussing Fox News, isn't part of the problem in the United States the Constitutional Amendment which permits free speech. This results in no end of crazies - left and right - putting forward often the most ridiculous  views and giving the impression they are spouting the truth.

 

Yes, free speech can be a problem.

The same happens with religion:  Why can any group of crazies invent the most ridiculous doctrine, preaching it and giving the impression that they are spouting the truth?  This is called "freedom of religion".   Freedoms can be problematic, but isn't lack of freedoms even worse?

 

Take the case of Singapore.  The sedition law has taken away the freedom of speech.  Is this better or worse?
(I am not going to answer this question,...  what if they put me in jail?  )

.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

44 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

Freedoms can be problematic, but isn't lack of freedoms even worse?

 

Yes, and yes! But there can never be absolute freedom. Even in America you can not shout "Fire" in a cinema. Because freedom of speech in the USA comes with just a tiny degree of responsibility. And that to me ought to be the safeguard. Freedoms have to be bounded by responsibilities. We do not live on our own little islands. We live in societies and whether we like it or not, societies have to be bounded by rules if they are going to function.

[Steve5380]

11 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

Yes, and yes! But there can never be absolute freedom. Even in America you can not shout "Fire" in a cinema. Because freedom of speech in the USA comes with just a tiny degree of responsibility. And that to me ought to be the safeguard. Freedoms have to be bounded by responsibilities. We do not live on our own little islands. We live in societies and whether we like it or not, societies have to be bounded by rules if they are going to function.

 

Yes, and yes!  With freedoms come the responsibilities not to abuse them.  Another restrictions are the laws about Libel and Slander, false advertising, etc.

And...  what are the restrictions of freedom of religion ??   Human sacrifices?

[upshot]

 

[upshot]

 

[upshot]

 

[upshot]

10 hours ago, Guest Hazily Instructor said:

 

The fact that you type that statement so defensively proves otherwise, because if you really waste time closely following the right wing rubbish you've been posting here, your psychological problems run a whole lot deeper than internalized homophobia.

 

 

I was for a long time for a slant towards left wing democrats. I am more a supporter of centralist Liberal. Why speak much at all about the right wing's shit? I don't need to. with 90% of media off and online owned by and controlled by the left wing supporting, too many real and fake news is ALREADY flying around. I am not going to debate here much with anyone here as it serve very little in this island what ever happens over there. I do that actively on their forums every day. There is a big corruption problem there that has been brewing out of control since Obama took office. And I was one of those who was so over the moon Obama won but since he took office, CHANGE did not happen, and he prioritizes with the same action as what the right did more than he tried to help not just US but blacks. He did not push hard enough and now in hindsight many Observers including intellectuals (all races) can see that and using REAL data to proof his performance and effectiveness.  He speaks damn well like some pro spokesman but action is very little. There are so many things that interacted and accumulated to reach this road junction. Born of so many smaller roadways not taken or taken.

 

For me, I can get it partially wrong, I submit. But I am not far off as I use human nature to be my benchmark on how people do or react and history has showed that to be true. I am in this for the long term as I'm following this shit storm even if this thread does not exist. You read 'pockets' of history and news to form your opinion. But for me, I gather my thinking on this for a long time. Call me no life if you like or crazy for doing so. I am more concern about how this about the blacks and the silly WOKE and CANCEL cultures is doing much damage to things I love that came from the US ( which like it or not, so many advances come from it as well as yes bad one) but it is slowly but surely spreading here.... all under the guise of helping the common folks as their battle banner. ( be it left or right mind you) Thus I rather not waste time typing what's wrong with the right wing but just show you stuff in my collection of links of contents I read and listen to daily for years. I only have to see what you write to know, no use typing much. I rather get the videos to speak for themselves which I doubt you even did. I have struggled with this for a long time to change me from left wing leaning to the center and a little to the right. Conservative has got certain things right and so did the left. But TODAY what is dominating is the extreme left wing. I do not have to fight hard here if anything but bring some awareness from the opposite table.

 

I balance the views you and others'  who are interested to know and give them a chance to think. You want me to show you more right wing shit that is wrong just so you can be happy reading them? I can. Which is what the left wing is using now to distract from the REAL PROBLEMS going on and to help them win the election in 2020. But I think you sprout enough already here on the left wing's work. My only purpose as with all other stuff I write in BW is always about BALANCE. You tip one way, I tip you a view to the other. So you and all get to see two or MORE SIDES to the issue and let all to decide. You passionate? You do not know what passion is for me 24/7. I just choose not to say much here but just point to directions people can take to draw their own conclusion. YOU ARE SIMPLY PUSHING A NARRATIVE of the left as only they are right and do no wrong. Everything you write on, I have already read it or know them well and have counbers to them factually speaking. Maybe you are a black man who came in here to argue your point which is fine. I don't know and don't care. Freedom of Speech. So you get your say. So do I. The problem is bigger than the black community that is stroking the fire.

 

This riot was not the first, I can remember watching the news way back to see it happens each time someone gets killed and then a riot of protest and then some politicians come up to do this or that and then a year later, it all dies away and then it starts again. Do you recall the LA riots for example ? The circle keeps going round and round. Everyone (mainly white in power) did not cover everything but pick POCKETS of examples and then fit them into the Black or Minority narrative to push an agenda. But all the problems you see do you even know which STATES were mainly involved and who was in REAL control? Who were the mayor, senetors or governor elected in power? And how well did those Left Wing controlled states do and what good for the blacks they claim to help since they keep blaming the right wing for the problem? Do you even understand how their political system & power work? Not just when it is bad, the President is at always at fault. Blah Blah Blah.  This is my last replying to you.  This is not about you. I follow and will post my links argument counter to my point. And yes I do watched all of them and not just now. I can get you links to old record and videos from way back to show that this problem has been around for a long time and especially when the left wing got into power and work the system to benefit them but use the plight of the minority. The have weaponized it. Problem is, it has gone out of control even from their own hands. Which is why the Democrats are in panic mode now. And that is an even more dangerous situation these days. My only concern is how this whole mess effects so many things we have spilling over to our part of the world. Local politics is not allowed here so I digress and will not say more. But apart from politics, this is effect our way of life, culture and the worth of males. Yes I am toxic 3rd wave anti-feminist and some of those shit is already here in Singapore. We are already see some "Karens" in action here too. All these BS is where we are talking about the blacks but this is not the only group that is having problems There are many and as a total there are far-reaching implications afoot. Why should I be so involved? I just am. I like to think if I can help something with my one life a few minutes a day. I stand for something. It not all dildo and sex everyday and working to earn money for myself. I like to think even if I have no kids from being who I am, I still have something positive to contribute.

Edited June 14, 2020 by upshot

[mijsdlog]

14 hours ago, upshot said:

As more young and brilliant blacks starts to unshackle themselves from old thinking and see themselves as being able to be better than where they come from. The blacks will help themselves out of their own problems. If more of them can see they are not victims and can make it and support themselves strand up for themselves, then and only then, can they do better. The only one really hold them back are themselves. Just like anyone of us in our own way. Will they have problems like bias and discrimination, sure. So does all other races still including us Chinese, Malay, India....etc. If you fail or do not want to work hard and think taking the easy way out and place the victim card, you will get by but you will never see the light or see a better you. The push back is upon us. People wanting to help the blacks are not always about helping them. Just like being slave they still are slave to these people who are using them to make themselves look like saviors and making more money and holding power. The same is happening with LGBTQ and they do not know they are being used by the left and corporations.

 

 

Thank you for making the effort to lay out your arguments. To me, this was a lot more effective getting your points across than all those videos; I didn't watch this video. I agree that many of them must help themselves. To a large degree, our success depends on our ability to overcome. But some are truly in positions so hopeless, or are so damaged that they need a little lift to get out. So I think that awareness and calling out the systemic discrimination are as important. Both need to happen for things to get better. And people who have manage to rise above should also look back to see if any of their brothers/sisters could use a little tug.

 

I also appreciate your frustration that often times it can feel like, outside of the U.S. depending on where one is located, a lot of the narrative is biased towards the Dems. I believe that most of us aren't under the illusion that the Dems are saints. So often, even the most well-meaning and altruistic of junior politicians end up "compromised" as they rise through the ranks. Both sides execute political manoeuvres to put/keep themselves in positions of power; I'm cynical but I suspect the well-being of the average citizen is not actually their foremost concern. It comes down to what we consider to be the lesser of two evils. 

[upshot]

18 minutes ago, mijsdlog said:

 

Thank you for making the effort to lay out your arguments. To me, this was a lot more effective getting your points across than all those videos; I didn't watch this video. I agree that many of them must help themselves. To a large degree, our success depends on our ability to overcome. But some are truly in positions so hopeless, or are so damaged that they need a little lift to get out. So I think that awareness and calling out the systemic discrimination are as important. Both need to happen for things to get better. And people who have manage to rise above should also look back to see if any of their brothers/sisters could use a little tug.

 

I also appreciate your frustration that often times it can feel like, outside of the U.S. depending on where one is located, a lot of the narrative is biased towards the Dems. I believe that most of us aren't under the illusion that the Dems are saints. So often, even the most well-meaning and altruistic of junior politicians end up "compromised" as they rise through the ranks. Both sides execute political manoeuvres to put/keep themselves in positions of power; I'm cynical but I suspect the well-being of the average citizen is not actually their foremost concern. It comes down to what we consider to be the lesser of two evils. 

 

Funny you brought that up.

 

Which has always been my mantra: POLITIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CHOOSING A DEVIL. CHOOSING THE LEAST DANGEROUS DEVIL IS THE KEY FACTOR TO SURVIVE IT. To do so you need to understand all the devils in play.

 

But not watching the videos will not give anyone a more rounded context of the thread talk discuss here. Its is more you take the superlative and then jump into throw in your view or rationalize that is more emotional than fact base.

Edited June 14, 2020 by upshot

[upshot]

How bad news are spread and made to be worst then it is

 

 

[upshot]

Remember the saying:

 

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime” is a quote from the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism.

 

This is the problem with the Left Wing to stay dominant over this minority group and other marginalized group without looking bad. But what they do will ensure anyone of those groups serve to make them look good BUT will not be able to rise about their present status. We see this happen in so many other countries that has religion being the main form of control as well.

Edited June 14, 2020 by upshot

[upshot]