HCI Discrimination of LGBTQ News Discussion

[fab]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:48 PM, StockBottom said:

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/hci-lgbtq-presentation-reprimanded-suspended-1946691

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/hwa-chong-reprimands-staff-member-suspends-him-from-sexuality-education-over-anti-lgbt-content

 

Hwa Chong staff reprimanded, suspended from sex education lessons after discriminatory presentation on LGBTQ issues

 

In other words, sweep under the carpet.

 

 

The sch mgt sounds incompetent .

[Spugnatura]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:22 PM, fab said:

 

The sch mgt sounds incompetent .

More likely to be ball-less and conniving.

[fab]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:27 PM, Spugnatura said:

More likely to be ball-less and conniving.

 

Probably. 

 

Likely the mgt has vetted the content but ball shrunken after the uproar. 

[fab]

https://www.ipsos.com/en-sg/attitudes-towards-same-sex-relationships-shift-towards-greater-inclusivity-singapore

 

This figure is more realistic. 

 

Attitudes towards same-sex relationships shift towards greater inclusivity in Singapore

PUBLIC SECTOR

Increased opposition towards Section 377A, support for same-sex parents and a willingness to speak up against unfairness towards the LGBTQ community point to a growing acceptance of same-sex relationships among Singaporeans.

21 June 2022

• Public opinion

 

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Singaporeans are becoming more supportive of same-sex relationships, with a growing number opposed to Section 377A of the Singapore Penal Code and 1 in 2 willing to speak out against prejudice towards the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community.

 

These are some of the findings from the latest study conducted by Ipsos into the normative attitudes of Singaporeans towards Section 377A, which criminisalises sex between consenting male adults.

 

The research comes five years after Ipsos produced one of the first publicly-available studies on the topic in Singapore, and offers interesting insights into how attitudes towards same-sex relationships have shifted during this period.

 

Most Singaporeans have a positive view of same-sex relationships

Attitudes towards same-sex relationships have become more favourable in the past three years, especially among young adults. And while the older age group remains largely opposed to same-sex relationships, a significant percentage also reported a softening in their stance.

• 45% of all respondents in the 2022 Ipsos study say they are more accepting of same-sex relationships than they were three years ago.
• Among young adults aged 18 - 29, 67% indicate greater acceptance now.
• 29% of respondents aged 50 years old and above acknowledge that they are more accepting of same-sex relationships than they were three years ago.

 

Opposition towards Section 377A is on the rise

Support for, or opposition to, Section 377A is often viewed as a proxy for attitudes towards same-sex relationships. In this regard, the study also revealed a change in attitudes in recent years.

• The number of respondents opposed to Section 377A increased by 8 percentage points from 12% in 2018 to 20% in 2022.
• The percentage of those who remain supportive of the penal code fell to less  than half - from 55% in2018 to 44% in 2022.

 

There is significant support for parenting rights for same-sex couples

The 2022 study delved deeper into the ramifications of having a positive attitude towards same-sex relationships and sought respondents' opinions on the parenting rights of same-sex couples.

• 51% of respondents agree that same-sex couples are just as likely as other parents to successfully raise children.
• 49% of respondents agree that same-sex couples should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexual couples.

 

A significant proportion of Singaporeans will stand up for the LGBTQ community

The Ipsos study also showed that a significant proportion of Singaporeans are willing to speak up for the LGBTQ community and support laws banning discrimination against them.

• 45% of respondents say they are willing to speak out against someone who is prejudiced against LGBTQ people.
• 1 in 3 (35%) supports laws banning discrimination against LGBTQ people in areas such as access to employment, education, housing and social services.

 

Melanie Ng, Director of Public Affairs at Ipsos in Singapore said, " Attitudes towards same-sex relationships are gradually becoming more inclusive as Singaporeans get exposed to diverse perspectives through mass media and social channels, have more direct exposure to same-sex relationships around them, and are more open to engaging in conversations to find out more.

 

Dialogue around same-sex relationships started in earnest in 2008, with the launch of the Pink Dot SG movement to raise awareness of, and support for, the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community in Singapore. 

 

Today, we continue to see a steady shift in societal attitudes, led by younger adult Singaporeans who are more ready to see the countr

y embrace same sex relationships. At the same time, while the older generation of Singaporeans remains largely opposed to same-sex relationships, we also see attitudes slowly changing. 

 

But what is even more interesting are the attitudes towards same-sex parenting and discrimination against LGBTs, and the willingness to speak up against prejudice. Support for the LGBT community in these areas indicates not just acceptance of same-sex relationships at an abstract level but a deeper awareness of the issues confronting the individuals involved in such relationships. This understanding and empathy paves the way for Singaporeans to better embrace diversity and embed inclusivity within the nation's social fabric."

 

About the study

• Between 25 May 2022 and 2 June 2022, Ipsos ran a nationally representative online survey of n=500 Singaporean Citizens and Permanent Residents aged 18 and above, in which respondents were asked about their attitudes towards Section 377A and other aspects of same-sex relationships.  The study comes five years after the first study was released by Ipsos in 2018 to mark the 10th year of Pink Dot SG, a not-for profit movement organised to raise awareness of, and  support for, the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community in Singapore.
• Quotas on age, gender and ethnicity were employed to ensure that the sample's composition reflects the overall population distribution, based on Singapore Department of Statistics population estimates.
• The precision of online surveys is measured using a credible interval. In this case, the results reported are accurate to +/- 5 percentage points of the views and perspectives of all Singaporeans aged 18 and above (at 95% confidence level). Credible intervals are wider among subsets of the population.

[Guest Gay]

This is why school shouldn't teach sex la. 

 

Let the parents have the uncomfortable talk. 

 

Teach this. Kena complain. Teach that kena complain. 

 

If table turned and a straight teacher who is lgbt ally teach things like gay pride month etc. 

 

Then students will also take screenshot. Viral that teacher converting students to gay. 

 

This is why gay can't win in Singapore. 

 

[GachiMuchi]

Hwa Chong counsellor suspended from delivering further sex ed lessons after using unapproved content

HCI promised to review internal processes to ensure such incidents will not happen again.

Zhangxin Zheng |  July 18, 2022, 12:46 PM

 

A school counsellor at Hwa Chong Institution (HCI) had shown content that is discriminatory to the LGBTQ+ community in a recent assembly talk.

The counsellor has been suspended from delivering further sexuality education lessons.

What happened?

 

A tip off to Mothership included photos taken of the presentation slides that were shown to the entire cohort of Secondary 4 students by a counsellor, Vincent Tan, during the talk on Jul. 13, 2022.

Some statements shown to students include "1 in 5 homosexuals is a pedophile"and "58% of homosexuals have problems with intestinal worms", for example.

Students were also allegedly shown a video that promoted a conversion programme conducted by a religious group.

The incident caused some students to feel uncomfortable which led to the school to follow up with an engagement session to address students' concerns on Monday morning (Jul. 18), according to a screenshot of an email sent to the students.

HCI will review the internal processes and ensure such incidents will not repeat

 

A HCI spokesperson confirmed that the school is aware of the incident which took place during a presentation on sexuality where a staff member incorporated content outside the scope of MOE’s Sexuality Education curriculum into his slides.

"The views presented were the individual staff’s personal perspectives and not representative of the position of the school or MOE," the spokesperson added.

The staff member has since been "reprimanded" for delivering content that hasn’t received the school's approval.

He has been suspended from delivering further sexuality education lessons, the HCI spokesperson said. It’s not certain how long this suspension will be.

"We take a serious view of this incident and have met up with our students to address their concerns. To ensure that such incidents are not repeated, we will also review our processes," the HCI spokesperson said.

 

 

 

[singalion]

On 7/18/2022 at 5:06 AM, Spugnatura said:

I am sure MOE will be backing them by staying connivingly silent.

 

Not sure if MOE can keep silent on this, when it already rolls through the media...

 

Assuming that MOE will first watch how the Hwa Chong Institution will handle the matter internally first.

If they feel the action is not sufficient, then only MOE will step in.

 

The best would be if a parent of one of the kids lodges a complaint as the kids are the aggravated ones.

 

OK, GM just posted this on the internal assessment by HCI... before I had finished my post...

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by singalion

[GachiMuchi]

Oogachaga has been contacted by an informal group of gay alumni from The Chinese High School, Hwa Chong Junior College, and Hwa Chong Institution, with an open letter addressed to HCI students and parents. This is in response to news about a homophobic assembly talk conducted in the school last week.

You can read the open letter here:
https://tinyurl.com/HCIopenletter18July2022

If you're LGBTQ alumni, and wish to sign the open letter, please fill in the form here: https://tinyurl.com/signHCIopenletter

 

News report: https://www.todayonline.com/.../hci-lgbtq-presentation.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

18 July 2022

 

An Open Letter Addressed to Hwa Chong Institution students, and your Parents

 

As an informal group of LGBT alumni from The Chinese High School, Hwa Chong Junior College and Hwa Chong Institution (HCI), we are writing in response to recent online news about an assembly talk called “What are LGBT so proud of?”

 

In short, the infographic that was presented seems to be full of misinformation that perpetuates unhelpful stereotypes about the LGBT community through questionable statistics from unverifiable sources. 

 

We also understand that during the talk, a video from a Singaporean group called truelove.is was screened. Although they describe themselves as helping LGBT people to “come out and come home”, they are in fact a Christian organisation that believes they can stop LGBT people from having “same sex attraction”, seeing it as something shameful that needs to be curbed or corrected. 

 

Their approach has been linked to a defunct American organisation called Exodus International, which shut down in 2013 after issuing an apology to the LGBT community for "years of undue judgement by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole".

 

We are especially concerned that as a secular, independent school, HCI has decided to allow this, especially since there is no evidence to show that such “conversion” practices are effective. In fact, there is evidence to show that these approaches often cause harm and could even be considered professionally unethical. 

 

To LGBT students & youth:

 

As adults, we are also proud members of Singapore’s LGBT community. We would like to say to you, if you’re a student who is questioning your sexuality and/ or gender identity, or you already know that you are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or nonbinary: 

 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE. We stand with you.

 

If you are currently feeling lonely, scared, worried or anxious about what might happen to you, it’s OK. Reach out to a friend, adult or even teacher that you can trust and feel safe with, and talk about how you feel. It could be in person or online. 

 

Please know there is other support for you that is affirming and  non-judgemental.  Such support should not make you feel worse, ashamed or guilty. Here are some LGBT-affirming professional counselling resources: https://www.congregaytion.com/professional-organisations

 

If you’re feeling emotionally distressed or even suicidal because of this or other incidents, please reach out. Samaritans of Singapore (SOS) provides a 24h suicide prevention service, including text messaging, email and hotline services.  Details are here: www.SOS.org.sg

 

Why Pride? What’s there to be Proud of?

 

The title of the presentation seems to suggest that the LGBT community is conceited, even arrogant. Some people who want to erase our humanity and identity will draw on the strength of their conviction and oppress us.  

 

We say to you “Do not let others define and dictate who you are.”  Just remember, you are equal, you are strong.  

 

That’s why we as a community feel Pride.  Pride is about standing up and not feeling ashamed of who or what we are. Pride is the opposite of shame. 

 

Pride is knowing that you have survived this far, and still looking forward. In the years to come, on your life's journey, you will find and achieve many things that you will be so proud of, just like we did.

 

To classmates and friends of LGBT people:

 

If you’re a classmate or friend of someone who is LGBT, we encourage you to be kind and understanding towards each other. 

 

We encourage you to do your research and read as widely as you can. Practise the scientific process taught by your Science teachers. Display empathy taught by your Humanities teachers. Learn about history and how it can be misinterpreted and misunderstood in different contexts. Don’t believe everything you see on the screen or read online.

 

The presentation was saying, don’t be gay if you don’t want to suffer bad health outcomes and lead a terrible life.  It is framing the problem wrongly.  What if, as moral and ethical people, we ask, what can we do to improve the health outcomes of everyone?  That means not targeting already vulnerable groups and questioning why LGBT youth – and adults too – are more likely to suffer from mental health issues, for example.  In school, we learned that correlation does not equal causation. What do we collectively need to do?

 

Your friendship and allyship with your LGBT friends is very crucial, so that together you can continue to grow and learn.

 

To parents:

 

We urge you to apply a critical lens so as not to be misled by biassed opinions falsely presented as fact.

 

We hope that you and your children do not lose the critical ability to interrogate the purported "facts" presented, and you should instead investigate the sources, before deciding for yourselves. 

 

If you are a parent whose child has already come out to you as LGBT, or perhaps they may come out to you in the years to come, you are not alone. 

 

In time to come, you will hopefully realise that there is a lot to be proud of. It is hard to put into words, but coming out as LGBT is one of the hardest things anyone can do. 

 

That is why back in your day, you probably did not see or hear of many people “coming out”. Most of us did not come out whilst studying at The Chinese High School or Hwa Chong Junior College. This is because of the fear of social stigma. Why does that persist? 

 

There is a small segment of society that insists on imposing its black-or-white, right-or-wrong view on a minority group, utilising whatever means necessary to deny our existence. That is why coming out is so scary, and because of that, you will be incredibly proud of your child's honesty and bravery in coming out to you.  

 

Even after your child has come out to you, they are still the same child before they came out to you. You will still love them, and you will be proud of them.

 

Here are some online resources, mostly from other parents of LGBT children: https://www.congregaytion.com/parents-families

 

We wish everyone all the very best, to continue to live with passion, lead with compassion.

 

自强不息, 学以致用

 

If you would like to add your name to this Open Letter, please fill in this form here: https://tinyurl.com/signHCIopenletter

 

This open letter is signed by:

 

Otto Fong 方永进

1981 to 1985

 

Derrick Chiang 张衍泽

The Chinese High School, 1987-1990

 

Gary Lim

The Chinese High School, 1981-1984

Hwa Chong Junior College, 1985-1986

Edited July 18, 2022 by GachiMuchi

[singalion]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:58 PM, Guest Gay said:

This is why school shouldn't teach sex la. 

 

Let the parents have the uncomfortable talk. 

 

Teach this. Kena complain. Teach that kena complain. 

 

If table turned and a straight teacher who is lgbt ally teach things like gay pride month etc. 

 

Then students will also take screenshot. Viral that teacher converting students to gay. 

 

This is why gay can't win in Singapore. 

 

 

Most parents avoid it, this is even worse. Then you have more suicides, unwanted pregnancies with mi-nors.

 

How many of your parents sat you down and talked on these subjects?

 

Exactly...

 

 

[Guest Roy Tan]

A detailed account of the entire saga:

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hwa_Chong_sex_ed_saga

[Spugnatura]

To think that school counsellor got away unscathed. For advocating hatred, he should be sacked by MOE and HCI, then named and shamed on traditional and social media as a very serious warning to others. Otherwise many lightweight martyr wannabe may be incentivized to repeat the act.

[Kimochi]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:33 PM, Spugnatura said:

To think that school counsellor got away unscathed. For advocating hatred, he should be sacked by MOE and HCI, then named and shamed on traditional and social media as a very serious warning to others. Otherwise many lightweight martyr wannabe may be incentivized to repeat the act.

Its not over yet. I don't believe the counsellor acted on his own. Probably someone instructed or they have approved the presentation. 

 

Fishy fishy ~ 

[Guest Dearstraightppl]

Whats interesting is that if you replace "LGBT" and "homosexual men" with "straight men" in the slide, the statistics shown would hold also.  In fact some stats might go up, e.g. alcoholics.  Lol

[Spugnatura]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:03 PM, Kimochi said:

Its not over yet. I don't believe the counsellor acted on his own. Probably someone instructed or they have approved the presentation. 

 

Fishy fishy ~ 

Yah. Sounds incredible to me no one among the entire school's staffs and administrators bats an eyelid to such flagrant hate mongering!!

Edited July 18, 2022 by Spugnatura

[mate69]

Yes some higher-ups would surely know what is happening. 

[Why?]

We should be concerned with our leader's silence, rather than this issue that will eventually fade into obscurity. On the other hand, in the event that it involves religion, you can be sure that our leaders and police will track down the offender before coming out in unison to make a statement. The offender eventually sacked by their employer,  banned by our government and other harsh punishments.   LGBT people do not enjoy the same protections.

 

Do we not care at all when Shamugam and a certain MP pretended to visit our LGBT community only to avoid us when we were suffering constant harm?  Let's see what these ministers have to say, if they ever appear at all.   It is no longer internal school affairs, but A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO DESTROY harmony of our people in this country.  A counsellor, is not any Tom Dick or Harry, he led this nation into mistrust among the people, sending misinformations against the minority and should be FIRED and not suspended. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Why?

[sgmaven]

You guys keep forgetting that HCI is an independent school, which gives it a great deal of autonomy. An independent school has more autonomy in terms of what it does than Autonomous Schools, and the Government-Aided Schools. If Government-Aided Schools (the majority of religious-affiliated schools are government-aided) can get by with spewing this sort of rhetoric on a daily basis without repercussions, then why should there be any action taken against HCI?

 

The key thing to point out is that HCI is not affiliated to any religious organisation, but to the Chinese diaspora. If the school counsellor managed to infiltrate into HCI to spread his agenda, and get away with it, then I think the School's Board should be taken to task...

Edited July 18, 2022 by sgmaven

[drektster]

everybody has the rights to say what they wants to say, everybody else has the rights to analyse and decide whether to believe it or rebuke it. even religion teacher could spread fake teaching and distort teaching. what makes school teacher any different. maybe we should learn to analyse rather than believing everything others says.

[doncoin]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:48 AM, drektster said:

everybody has the rights to say what they wants to say, everybody else has the rights to analyse and decide whether to believe it or rebuke it. even religion teacher could spread fake teaching and distort teaching. what makes school teacher any different. maybe we should learn to analyse rather than believing everything others says.

 

While everybody has the right to say what they want, the person speaking is responsible for ensuring that the information he/she/they are saying is accurate and current. It is true that we should all analyze and be critical of the information shared, but quite often, the majority are too lazy to think for themselves, and allowed peer pressure to influence their thinking. An example is how Hitler and his anti-Semitic rhetoric influenced ordinary Germans to become complicit. 

 

What was up on the slides was wrong on so many levels with no basis in reality. 

[Spugnatura]

Looking at the slides, even a two year old can tell it is hate mongering. I don't understand why teachers from an elite, independent school never voice out the inappropriateness for young minds.

 

Are they not encouraging critical thinking? Seems like when it comes to scapegoating and making blacksheeps out of sexual minorities, spoonfeeding is their accepted protocol.

[drektster]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:08 PM, doncoin said:

 

While everybody has the right to say what they want, the person speaking is responsible for ensuring that the information he/she/they are saying is accurate and current. It is true that we should all analyze and be critical of the information shared, but quite often, the majority are too lazy to think for themselves, and allowed peer pressure to influence their thinking. An example is how Hitler and his anti-Semitic rhetoric influenced ordinary Germans to become complicit. 

 

What was up on the slides was wrong on so many levels with no basis in reality. 

if people can really have an open mind to think and analyse. government and religious group will have a hard time.

[singalion]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:03 PM, Kimochi said:

Its not over yet. I don't believe the counsellor acted on his own. Probably someone instructed or they have approved the presentation. 

 

Fishy fishy ~ 

 

The main point is:

 

Shouldn't independent schools apply more scrutiny on what external program providers "teach" or present at their school?

 

Did nobody look through the slides of that guy before he acted as the school counsilor at the classroom???

 

In that sense, failing to apply pre-checks and some degree of scrutiny 3 times convicted pedophiles or rapists could also hold such classes...

 

This seems to be the result of some lapse of HCI. 

 

 

[mate69]

The silence on the part of the ministers ...we must keep watch on this. I believe they will come out to say something soon

[Spugnatura]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:04 AM, drektster said:

if people can really have an open mind to think and analyse. government and religious group will have a hard time.

They have to manufacture consent from the people by spreading falsehoods among young, impressionable minds who are the most accepting of LGBT people.

 

In this case, by painting LGBT people as undesirable to society, it makes their job easier to preserve 377A to continue their oppression and scapegoating of sexual minorities for many more years to come.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Spugnatura

[Spugnatura]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:57 AM, mate69 said:

The silence on the part of the ministers ...we must keep watch on this. I believe they will come out to say something soon

The old-timers are all complicit in this i tell you! It used to be anti-communism, then anti-terrorism; now they are all anti-LGBT because of low fertility rate and "limited resources".

Edited July 18, 2022 by Spugnatura

[Spugnatura]

Political manipulation of law (retain 377a), political manipulation of healthcare (ask doctor to halt sexual reassignment procedure for trans student), now political manipulation of education.

 

Of cos they will neither deny nor admit to it.

 

This is nothing new in Singapore. It has always been like this here.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Spugnatura

[Fiacla]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:14 AM, singalion said:

More details:

 

 

Context: This set of slides was presented to all Sec 4 students in HCI during level assembly on 13/7. While the presenter was trying to make the point that feeling gay was not necessarily an indication of being gay, this set of slides was seen as highly offending towards the LGBT community. Even more so towards students that are uncertain of their own sexuality and have yet to reach a

Edit: this video https://youtu.be/9BQcUBSmw_o was also presented during the presentation, hence the links to religious affiliation.

 

 

So in the end, he still likes guys??? God confused him if so.

[fab]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:37 AM, Fiacla said:

So in the end, he still likes guys??? God confused him if so.

 

God told him not to care about labels.

 

Just follow your hard.

[StockBottom]

https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/w2see3/hwachong_principals_comments_on_situation/

 

The audio is bad, so read the transcript instead:

On this matter, (----) some of you have surfaced the issue to teachers as you saw some of the postings, all right, some of which of course, were about the school, all right and so on and so forth. We also appreciate some of you had feedback given to us, and approached us. So I can assure all students your voice matters.

I want to create a safe space for you to raise your concerns, this is one of the platforms. I think we have many channels for students to actually come to us. These are direct channels (--------) these are safe platforms for us to have conversations, to understand concerns of everyone in the school community. So that as a school, we can move forward, we can move forward as a safe and caring school. And this has always been a very important aspect of Hwa Chong's education. So on this incident, I think many of you have also been pained by what was out in the social media. So I think we also want to be actually be able to move forward together as a school.

So first lets talk about the content of the presentation, I think you saw some of the screenshots that were circulated. We acknowledge that the content was inappropriate and unacceptable. The views presented were the school counsellor's personal perspectives and certainly not representative of the school, the position of the school and that of MOE. And what he said during the presentation was inappropriate and ran counter to our aim of incalcating a (----) of diversity and acceptance of differences respectfully.

So we want to try and assure you that Hwa Chong has always sought to establish a caring and enabling environment for students. And you have experienced actually 2 years of that.(---) Covid 19, very difficulty situations, I think many of you would have appreciated, I hope, the many things the school has done to ensure that this school provides caring, conducive, safe environment for all of us no matter what the challenges are. So we emphasize empathy and respect for all, regardless of race, regardless of language, religion, sexual orientation and social economic status. So what I want to say here, its not just about sexual orientation, HCI is meant to be safe for all.

So on this note we will have to sincerely thank you all of you, all of us here, students teachers every single member EAS (?) play a part in making this a reality for all of Hwa Chong members. So if you know of any of your peers, or you have also experienced, being discriminated, please step forward, please let us know, the school will not condone any form of bullying.

And lets continue to build our community by leading with compassion, where we will respect and empathize with one another, and support each other in times of difficulty. And this safe environment I would say is for all of us.

As for our staff member, Mr Tan, I think it has been articulated to him in no uncertain terms, that what he has added to the presentation at the lecture, was inappropriate and out of line. And he has since been reprimanded for delivering content without the school's approval and suspended from delivering further sexuality education lessons. Right so moving forward as a community, I think to ensure such...

 

Lotsa nice words, but ultimately vacuous motherhood statements. I guess they learn from the best.

And where is that Vincent Tan? Didn't even show up to take responsibility or apologize?

These are the values you want to impart to the boys?

Edited July 19, 2022 by StockBottom

[Spugnatura]

Background check on Vincent Tan sorely needed.

 

Where he came from. Upbringing. Qualifications. Where was he educated. Criminal record. Religion. Attended/attending which religious organisations.

[fab]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:19 PM, Spugnatura said:

Background check on Vincent Tan sorely needed.

 

Where he came from. Upbringing. Qualifications. Where was he educated. Criminal record. Religion. Attended/attending which religious organisations.

 

And Shaun too.

 

And how did God talk to him?

[Spugnatura]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:15 AM, fab said:

 

And Shaun too.

 

And how did God talk to him?

He read his own poop.

[Spugnatura]

Manliness is overrated by those who are not.

[MadMan]

I was once posted to the mental hospital in Sg for some school project and spoke to a few inpatients there who either claimed they heard voices from god or they actually communicated with god and even one who claimed to be god. How is Shaun so sure it was god who spoke to him and not something else

[fab]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:09 PM, MadMan said:

I was once posted to the mental hospital in Sg for some school project and spoke to a few inpatients there who either claimed they heard voices from god or they actually communicated with god and even one who claimed to be god. How is Shaun so sure it was god who spoke to him and not something else

 

At least he din say God apologize 😊🤣😜 to him!!!

[singalion]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:19 PM, Spugnatura said:

Background check on Vincent Tan sorely needed.

 

Where he came from. Upbringing. Qualifications. Where was he educated. Criminal record. Religion. Attended/attending which religious organisations.

 

This is where I said earlier that this was a big failure in the school. They did not do any background check on him.

 

I think the schools should mandatory do video recordings of such external providers.

 

at least there is no issue, when it comes to problems later...

[sgmaven]

Isn't Vincent Tan employed by HCI as a school counsellor? In that case, it is not an external provider at all, but an internal one. Of course, that would point to their selection process for staff.

[fab]

I maybe wrong but I believe Vincent tan is a staff of hci and not a external provider.

 

And I seriously doubt that the mgt has not vetted his content.

[sgmaven]

Why do people doubt that school management did not vet content of the talk given by Vincent Tan, given that he is a member of staff, and the School Counselor?

 

If school management has to vet all presentations to students, then they should also vet the contents of every lesson given by their teachers (also staff members). You think school management have the time to do that?

[fab]

An effective mgr manages his time well. How long does it take to vet the PowerPoint?

 

Of course all the hods must vet through the teaching presentations of the teachers. Else what are they employed for?

[sgmaven]

@fabHahaha! You have such an idealistic view of what happens in schools in Singapore. Did you go through the system? Surely your personal experience in the Singaporean education system will tell you that HODs don't have time to vet all teaching presentations of the teachers...

[Spugnatura]

Goes to show many of our teachers are not only discriminatory and conniving, they are also slackers and skivers.

 

Now that Vincent Tan's sexuality education duty is taken from him, he can also skive more.

 

Such a favourable outcome and good deal for him actually!

[Why?]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:52 PM, sgmaven said:

 

If school management has to vet all presentations to students, then they should also vet the contents of every lesson given by their teachers (also staff members). You think school management have the time to do that?

 What does the term "school management" mean? Self-management of oneself? Vincent Tan will claim to the world that no one has approached him to request an apology, at leas the school didn't think he should do so. These days, Singapore uses it as a common template to avoid responsibility. 

[sgmaven]

If every lesson has to be vetted, then you don't need teachers who are graduates. You only need teachers to regurgitate the lesson plan, and to "escalate any issues" to higher authorities if problems emerge. The same can be leveled at any job. If all you do has to be vetted, then every worker is no more than a robot, with little or no autonomy. If that is your idea of "management", no wonder so many workers are unhappy with their managers and complain about micro-management!

On 7/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, Spugnatura said:

Goes to show many of our teachers are not only discriminatory and conniving, they are also slackers and skivers.

What evidence do you have to say that our teachers are discriminatory, conniving slackers and skivers?

 

On 7/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, Spugnatura said:

Now that Vincent Tan's sexuality education duty is taken from him, he can also skive more.

Do note that Vincent Tan is NOT a teacher! He is the School Counselor! Please do not confuse the two jobs. Also, I am not sure if "sex education" was originally part of his "duties" as a counselor.

[sgmaven]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:43 PM, Why? said:

 What does the term "school management" mean? Self-management of oneself? Vincent Tan will claim to the world that no one has approached him to request an apology, at leas the school didn't think he should do so. These days, Singapore uses it as a common template to avoid responsibility. 

Note that I only used that term, since others were saying that "school management" was responsible for whatever Vincent Tan presented. From my understanding of school structures in Singapore, School Management would involve the Principal and Vice-Principal(s), and the HODs when related to their area/subjects. Since Vincent Tan is a School Counselor, and not a teacher, I would think that his management would fall under the Principal, Vice-Principal(s) and the HOD in-charge of student welfare.

 

As I have mentioned before, I doubt that the Principal, Vice-Principal(s) and HOD would vet through all materials produced by said School Counselor. Is it considered "dereliction of duties"? That is up to your understanding of how much autonomy a member of staff has in the school.

[StockBottom]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, Spugnatura said:

Goes to show many of our teachers are not only discriminatory and conniving, they are also slackers and skivers.

 

Now that Vincent Tan's sexuality education duty is taken from him, he can also skive more.

 

Such a favourable outcome and good deal for him actually!

 

Yes 🤣 all my teacher friends said he is "punished" with less work ... now they know what to do if they want to siam form teacher duties 😉

[singalion]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, Spugnatura said:

Goes to show many of our teachers are not only discriminatory and conniving, they are also slackers and skivers.

 

Now that Vincent Tan's sexuality education duty is taken from him, he can also skive more.

 

Such a favourable outcome and good deal for him actually!

 

He might not have been employed by just one single school.

 

I read somewhere some time ago that these sex education programs are run by "external vendors" as they like to call it. But not sure for HCI.

 

Wasn't there some big issue some time back that people asked Aware and the Action for Aids not to be invited to the programs any longer and they were taken out of the list of external vendors by MOE... I remember something, but is some time back.

 

 

 

[singalion]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:56 PM, sgmaven said:

Note that I only used that term, since others were saying that "school management" was responsible for whatever Vincent Tan presented. From my understanding of school structures in Singapore, School Management would involve the Principal and Vice-Principal(s), and the HODs when related to their area/subjects. Since Vincent Tan is a School Counselor, and not a teacher, I would think that his management would fall under the Principal, Vice-Principal(s) and the HOD in-charge of student welfare.

 

As I have mentioned before, I doubt that the Principal, Vice-Principal(s) and HOD would vet through all materials produced by said School Counselor. Is it considered "dereliction of duties"? That is up to your understanding of how much autonomy a member of staff has in the school.

 

You really think someone would have approved these slides???

 

I don't think so. I guess there was no scrutiny with him or the person in charge from the School to run through did a lazy job, switching the slides while watching a Channel 8 soap opera...

 

[sgmaven]

I don't think someone would have approved the slides, but I also don't think that there was anyone approving those slides either. Call it job autonomy, but I doubt that the Principal or Vice-Principal(s) would have been actively vetting the slides done by the School Counsellor for internal student consumption. An oversight, perhaps, but I think this is quite "normal" in schools.

[sgmaven]

According to a Straits Times report, Focus on the Family's Relationship Workshop, the one at the centre of the controversy in 2014, had been attended by some 14,000 students across 13 schools. So HCI was definitely NOT the only school that contracted Focus on the Family to run that workshop.

Edited July 21, 2022 by sgmaven