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Pelosi is playing with fire, says China


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On 8/4/2022 at 7:26 PM, sgmaven said:

Anyway, we digress... Modern-day China is a result of the US foreign policy, when the US decided to support Mao Zedong's PLA during WW2 with armaments to combat the Japanese. Not that Chiang Kaishek was much better. I daren't even dream of a China where Chiang had won the war against Mao, since he was no angel either.

 

Do remember that Taiwan was under martial law into the 1980s, and if it weren't for the opposition movement coming from the South of Taiwan, which was mainly of Taiwanese stock, we would probably not have the democratic Taiwan of today.

 

But compared to PRC Taiwan developed quite to a democracy.

 

Taiwan is a model democracy for Asia.

 

I am also aware that corruption was rampant also in Taiwan (and maybe still is).

 

Spain was under martial law also for years up to the 70s and also developed into a Democracy.

 

Also, see that the world accepts the light democracy of Singapore...

 

Only the PRC is stubborn to follow such an outdated type of political regime.

Compared to the PRC today's Cuba is a democracy already... 😂

 

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 10:24 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Why you want to blame America for allowing the power of China to surge by supporting Mao,  when you yourself recognize that Chiang Kai-shek would have been worse than Mao? 

 

Steve,...

 

the point is that under Chiang Kai Chek China would be

 

a) probably united with Taiwan

 

b) not under a communist dictatorship and autocratic regime as it is now...

 

c) had been a usual business model many years back as most countries compared to what the PRC went through under Mao and the other CCP leaders.

 

Please acquaint yourself with the background knowledge before you post something into BW.

 

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 11:53 PM, Guest Mississippi Paddlefish said:


Bill Clinton did not do enough to prevent 9/11. He was distracted with his impeachment and probably what led him to the impeachment in the first place. Bush had to respond after 9/11. If Bush did not respond, he will be blamed for being weak. 
 

Al Gore would have been a terrible president because he would be Clinton 2.0. Bush approval rating soared and this showed that the people agreed with how he performed. 
 

People are looking forward to mid-terms elections this November to kick out Democrats. They’re fed up with all the soft on crime policies pushed by activist Democrat District Attorneys, woke leaders who are lost about solving the multiple crisis. 


Let's not fall to this obvious one sided propaganda  that is totally off topic also.

 

 

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:37 AM, Guest Just world war 3 la said:

Thanks Pelosi. 

 

Now Singapore can't fly to Taiwan.

Lost tourism money from Taiwan. 

 

Flight cancelled. 

Singaporean have to bear the cost. Especially on long weekend NDP. 

 

Thanks Pelosi for ruining travel plan. 

 

Wrong causation.

 

Was there any need for the PRC to do any military drills and enter the Taiwan zone?

 

You should learn to look at the real reasons that caused the flight cancellations.

 

The cancellations were caused by the military actions of China.

Nobody asked them to do that around Taiwan.

 

 

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:08 AM, Dart said:

The summary of Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan and its consequences as depicted by WION 

 

 

What the reporter from Gravitas doesn't mention is the main fact:

 

China is not to tell foreign politicians what to do or not to do or to come up with threats.

 

The reporter calls the trip also "symbolic", but often symbolic acts have changed world politics.

Take Nixon in 1972.

French President Mitterrand and Chancellor Kohl 1984 in Verdun...

 

both acts haven't changed anything in the immediate...

 

Lastly, showing support to Taiwan for the US has been important, in particular at current moment, when the PRC increased the threat every day.

 

 

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Guest USA is not the greatest
On 8/5/2022 at 11:55 AM, singalion said:

 

Wrong causation.

 

Was there any need for the PRC to do any military drills and enter the Taiwan zone?

 

You should learn to look at the real reasons that caused the flight cancellations.

 

The cancellations were caused by the military actions of China.

Nobody asked them to do that around Taiwan.

 

 

 

China already warn USA. 

USA WENT AHEAD. 

 

SO CHINA HAVE TO RESPOND. 

 

Its like your mother threaten you. You try me.... I will throw your computer out. 

 

Then you try her. 

 

She just throw your computer out. 

 

USA is like that child. 

The one who suffer is the computer. 

 

 

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:24 PM, Guest USA is not the greatest said:

 

China already warn USA. 

USA WENT AHEAD. 

 

SO CHINA HAVE TO RESPOND. 

 

Its like your mother threaten you. You try me.... I will throw your computer out. 

 

Then you try her. 

 

She just throw your computer out. 

 

USA is like that child. 

The one who suffer is the computer. 

 

 

 

This "warning " by China was already immature and can only result in a face loss to Xi Jinping and his cronies.

 

The USA did not threaten to attack the PRC by military or with any sanctions or anything, so why this warfare?

 

It is just a talk and shake hands between the House leader and the Taiwan president...

 

Please look at the proportionality of the whole thing...

 

 

If the PRC wanted to do something more suitable, sit down with Taiwan leaders, US and talk...

 

 

 

 

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Guest Mississippi Paddlefish
On 8/5/2022 at 11:48 AM, singalion said:


Let's not fall to this obvious one sided propaganda  that is totally off topic also.

 

 


There is no one-sided propaganda as it clear the Clinton administration failed to preempt 9/11. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:43 PM, Guest Mississippi Paddlefish said:


There is no one-sided propaganda as it clear the Clinton administration failed to preempt 9/11. 

 

Could you please post the US issues into the US thread.

 

9/11 Bush and Clinton has nothing to do with the Taiwan - Pelosi topic.

 

 

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Guest Investor
On 8/5/2022 at 12:31 PM, singalion said:

 

This "warning " by China was already immature and can only result in a face loss to Xi Jinping and his cronies.

 

The USA did not threaten to attack the PRC by military or with any sanctions or anything, so why this warfare?

 

It is just a talk and shake hands between the House leader and the Taiwan president...

 

Please look at the proportionality of the whole thing...

 

 

If the PRC wanted to do something more suitable, sit down with Taiwan leaders, US and talk...

 

 

 

 

 

Cannot phone call ah? 

This visit is to poke the bear la. 

 

Only clueless people can't see that. 

USA is not the one who suffer. 

Taiwan and South East Asia will. 

 

Why you think asean all so scared and call for calm. 

 

 

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Guest Mississippi Paddlefish
On 8/5/2022 at 12:45 PM, singalion said:

 

Could you please post the US issues into the US thread.

 

9/11 Bush and Clinton has nothing to do with the Taiwan - Pelosi topic.

 

 


Could you please remind yourself and others to post the US issues into the US thread. 
 

9-11 Clinton failure to prevent was brought up because someone had talked about US Presidents in this thread. 

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Guest Go USA to debate USA

Please go USA like Amos Yee to champion your thoughts and political view. 

 

USA welcome people like Amos Yee. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:27 AM, singalion said:

But compared to PRC Taiwan developed quite to a democracy.

 

Taiwan is a model democracy for Asia.

 

I am also aware that corruption was rampant also in Taiwan (and maybe still is).

 

Spain was under martial law also for years up to the 70s and also developed into a Democracy.

 

Also, see that the world accepts the light democracy of Singapore...

 

Only the PRC is stubborn to follow such an outdated type of political regime.

Compared to the PRC today's Cuba is a democracy already... 😂

 

In a hypothetical world where Chiang's Kuomingtang had won the Chinese Civil War in 1949, the whole of China would have come under the yoke of the Kuomingtang. If martial law had been instituted by the Kuomingtang, similar to what happened in Taiwan, any of the nascent independence movement in Taiwan would have been crushed by the mainland.

 

Remember that the democratic reforms in Taiwan came as a response to the independence movement in Southern Taiwan, based around Kaohsiung. If this was crushed under martial law by a greater Kuomingtang-controlled China, then, China could still be under the autocratic leadership of the Kuomingtang to this day. Don't assume that democratic reform would still occur under a situation where the Kuomingtang had triumphed over Mao.

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On 8/4/2022 at 2:10 PM, Neh Neh said:

Crazy Nancy should listen to Prime minister Lee. Why she came to sg the first place, yet didn't take Lee's advice not to go Taiwan. She did it in purpose to not give face to Lee?

the US Speaker of the House stopping in Singapore en route to Taiwan with the aim of making a prime minister that barely anyone knows in the States to lose face? yeah, that makes sense...

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On 8/5/2022 at 5:54 PM, sgmaven said:

 

In a hypothetical world where Chiang's Kuomingtang had won the Chinese Civil War in 1949, the whole of China would have come under the yoke of the Kuomingtang. If martial law had been instituted by the Kuomingtang, similar to what happened in Taiwan, any of the nascent independence movement in Taiwan would have been crushed by the mainland.

 

Remember that the democratic reforms in Taiwan came as a response to the independence movement in Southern Taiwan, based around Kaohsiung. If this was crushed under martial law by a greater Kuomingtang-controlled China, then, China could still be under the autocratic leadership of the Kuomingtang to this day. Don't assume that democratic reform would still occur under a situation where the Kuomingtang had triumphed over Mao.

 

Isn't it speculation?

 

Chiang Kai-shek  could have been assassinated...

 

Mainland China has never really been a "democracy".

 

But we do not know how it had developed, in particular after the US interference to Japanese occupation...

 

 

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On 8/5/2022 at 6:05 PM, Why? said:

Pelosi is to blame for China screwing Taiwan.  For the following few days, quite violent. The entire world is palpitating while they watch, and I can't help but feel horny.  

 

This is surely very laughable...

 

To me the PRC is totally overreacting...

 

The US never said, Pelosi never said they changed the stance on the China policy.

Pelosi never said anything that Taiwan should be an independent state

 

The US is just pushing the Taiwan issue to present a model of governance to the PRC .

 

The military maneuvers seems to be the childish outcry of a bully.

 

What will the PRC achieve? Nothing!

 

 

Edited by singalion
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BEIJING - China on Friday (Aug 5) announced that it would suspend cooperation with the United States on a range of issues, including talks on climate change, as it continues to take retaliatory measures following US Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan.

The Chinese foreign ministry said it was taking these countermeasures in the light of Mrs Pelosi's "insistence on visiting Taiwan in disregard to China's strong opposition and solemn representations".

 

 

Not talking on Climate Change with the US. As if the US is alone on this issue.

 

Plus you are only hurting yourself if China doesn't want to increase action against Climate Change and global warming.

 

Your own Mainland Chinese people will storm to Tienanmen again, if they suffer flloodings, destruction, draught, fires and the extinction of the panda bear.... 

 

 

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China halts climate, military talks with US, suspends other cooperation after Pelosi's Taiwan visit

ST  6 Aug 2022

 

China on Friday  imposed sanctions on US Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her immediate family members, despite widespread criticism from the US, European Union and Japan, as flights were cancelled in and out of Taipei.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/beijing-halts-climate-military-talks-with-us-suspends-other-cooperation

 

 

China criticizes sanctions against Russia as ineffective and warns of wider damage.

Feb. 23, 2022

“The position of the Chinese government is that we believe that sanctions have never been a fundamental and effective way to solve problems, and China always opposes any illegal unilateral sanctions,” Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman for China’s foreign ministry, said at a regular press briefing on Wednesday.

 

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on February 28, 2022

Wang Wenbin: China does not agree with resolving issues with sanctions, still less unilateral sanctions that lack the basis of international law. Reality has long proven that sanctions not only fail to resolve problems, but will create new ones. It will result in a situation where multiple players lose, and will disrupt the process of political settlement.

 

Wang Wenbin: As I just stated, China doesn’t approve of resorting to sanctions to resolve problems. We oppose even more strongly unilateral sanctions without basis in international law. We demand that the US side, in handling the Ukraine issue and relations with Russia, shall not harm the legitimate rights and interests of China and other sides concerned.

 

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/202202/t20220228_10646378.html

 

 

=>

What cherry picking attitude and hypocrisy by the PRC....

Very persuasive move from the PRC...

 

ha ha.

 

Edited by singalion
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On 8/5/2022 at 6:05 PM, Why? said:

Pelosi is to blame for China screwing Taiwan.  For the following few days, quite violent. The entire world is palpitating while they watch, and I can't help but feel horny.  

Hhmmm... perhaps from a layman perspective, we can interpret the whole thing like a family violence like

Mr. Tiong' wife seduced the american neighbour Pelosi, Pelosi had intimacy with Tiong's wife at Tiong's HDB 19hrs while Mr. Tiong away. Later on Mr. Tiong found out and got fury. Mr. Tiong now beating up his wife.

Yeah 19hrs of fucking Mr. Tiong's wife sure horny... 😆

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On 8/4/2022 at 10:31 PM, singalion said:

 

Steve,...

 

Please acquaint yourself with the background knowledge before you post something into BW.

 

 

Oh Superior @singalion,  I would bow in respect to your wiseness!  

 

But I recognize that you don't have any more wiseness than anyone else here,  you simply read some things before others do, and your interpretation of what you read is not always correct.  

 

Please do some INTROSPECTION,  and realize that you are far, far from perfection.

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On 8/4/2022 at 11:24 PM, Guest USA is not the greatest said:

 

China already warn USA. 

USA WENT AHEAD. 

 

SO CHINA HAVE TO RESPOND. 

 

Its like your mother threaten you. You try me.... I will throw your computer out. 

 

Then you try her. 

 

She just throw your computer out. 

 

USA is like that child. 

The one who suffer is the computer. 

 

 

 

Your premise has a fundamental error in judgment. 

 

USA IS NOT THE CHILD OF CHINA!!!,   ha ha.   :lol:

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On 8/4/2022 at 11:51 PM, Guest Investor said:

 

Cannot phone call ah? 

This visit is to poke the bear la. 

...

 

Why you think asean all so scared and call for calm. 

 

 

 

Asian nations should grow more balls.  

 

There are like half a dozen nations in Asia close to China which have a combined population compared to the US, who could unite and form a SATO  (South Asia Treaty Organization)  to keep the PRC at bay.  Isn't NATO keeping Russia at bay?

 

NATO is not only the North Atlantic nations in Europe, but has also America as a member.  Similarly,  SATO could include America and so have a military power comparable if not superior to the one of the PRC.   Isn't the visit of Pelosi to S.E. Asia a clue of this?

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1. NATO has member countries that have permanent seats on the UN Security Council, and have nuclear armaments, other than just the US. Does your suggested SATO have any potential members with their own nuclear warheads?

 

2. Russia's power as a military is waning, as evidenced by its problems in its war with the Ukraine. China, on the other hand, is still on the ascent. SATO would not have the manpower to even combat half of China's armed forces! So how do you keep the PRC at bay? Probably only provoke the PRC...

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Guest Stonefootis
On 8/5/2022 at 9:36 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Asian nations should grow more balls.  

 

There are like half a dozen nations in Asia close to China which have a combined population compared to the US, who could unite and form a SATO  (South Asia Treaty Organization)  to keep the PRC at bay.  Isn't NATO keeping Russia at bay?

 

NATO is not only the North Atlantic nations in Europe, but has also America as a member.  Similarly,  SATO could include America and so have a military power comparable if not superior to the one of the PRC.   Isn't the visit of Pelosi to S.E. Asia a clue of this?


Should form POTATO, Pacific Oceania Treaty At The Orifice. 
 

Jokes aside, there are just too many disparate cultures and diverging interests in ASEAN countries. Besides some ASEAN countries don’t have high opinion of the West and US, and some even dislike US. It’s not going to work. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Stonefootis said:


Should form POTATO, Pacific Oceania Treaty At The Orifice. 
 

Jokes aside, there are just too many disparate cultures and diverging interests in ASEAN countries. Besides some ASEAN countries don’t have high opinion of the West and US, and some even dislike US. It’s not going to work. 

 

Better POTO

 

Pacific Ocean Treaty Organisation....

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Many Americans view Asia from the perspective of an ex-boyfriend. They forget that they are the ex, and still want to be involved, forgetting that many of the nations have "moved on". Why? Because America hasn't got a sterling record in Asia. Not many countries, or their people, would wholeheartedly trust the US to do what is good for them (the Asian country).

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On 8/5/2022 at 9:47 AM, sgmaven said:

 

 Not many countries, or their people, would wholeheartedly trust the US to do what is good for them (the Asian country).

 

 

This is understandable.  But all they need to do is to follow what America does that is good for Americans.  We humans are not so different.  

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:45 AM, sgmaven said:

1. NATO has member countries that have permanent seats on the UN Security Council, and have nuclear armaments, other than just the US. Does your suggested SATO have any potential members with their own nuclear warheads?

 

2. Russia's power as a military is waning, as evidenced by its problems in its war with the Ukraine. China, on the other hand, is still on the ascent. SATO would not have the manpower to even combat half of China's armed forces! So how do you keep the PRC at bay? Probably only provoke the PRC...

 

It may be inevitable that more countries get in possession of nuclear warheads.  In Asia you have China, India, Pakistan, and now N. Korea.   It makes sense that Japan should have them too, perhaps S. Korea and Taiwan.  But Singapore is still too small to become a nuclear power, ha ha.

 

I know.  We should avoid proliferation of these weapons of mass destruction.  But on the other hand, they become a deterrent for a country to get attacked.  No big powerful country wants to be hit with nuclear bombs, even if they are just a few that destroy their capital city.

 

I am a pacifist,  but I am following with interest the progress Raytheon is making with the hypersonic missile it is developing for the US.  I wish we can soon replace the dozen or so nuclear ballistic missiles in the 14 Ohio-class submarines with hypersonic missiles.  And have these submarines do some tourism in the China sea.

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, singalion said:

 

What the reporter from Gravitas doesn't mention is the main fact:

 

China is not to tell foreign politicians what to do or not to do or to come up with threats.

 

The reporter calls the trip also "symbolic", but often symbolic acts have changed world politics.

Take Nixon in 1972.

French President Mitterrand and Chancellor Kohl 1984 in Verdun...

 

both acts haven't changed anything in the immediate...

 

Lastly, showing support to Taiwan for the US has been important, in particular at current moment, when the PRC increased the threat every day.

 

 

 

The issue now is China has always regarded Taiwan as its territory but in reality it's a democratic China, a separate country. Thanks to U.S. for Straits of Formosa intervention then. Pertaining to China's stance, Taiwan is barred from participating in many official events.  China staged a protest at the recent Taiwan's VP William Lai for attending the former Japanese Primer Shinzo Abe's funeral. 

 

I'm in agreement with you and support for the Republic of China i.e. Democratic Taiwan. I had been to Taiwan during my course of work and had to apply visa through a Taiwanese association instead of an embassy/consulate. 

 

The WION channel is quite anti-China. I have watched a few of their news and surprise to find this particular Gravitas (WION's prime-time show) not laced with anti-China propaganda and hence well grounded so I thought and decided to post it.

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:38 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

This is understandable.  But all they need to do is to follow what America does that is good for Americans.  We humans are not so different.  

Like allowing people to carry hand-guns, and prohibiting abortions even in times of rape and incest?

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:49 PM, Steve5380 said:

It may be inevitable that more countries get in possession of nuclear warheads.  In Asia you have China, India, Pakistan, and now N. Korea.   It makes sense that Japan should have them too, perhaps S. Korea and Taiwan.  But Singapore is still too small to become a nuclear power, ha ha.

You do know that out of the list of 4 nuclear-armed Asian countries, only 1 can be tacitly considered an ally of the US, don't you?

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On 8/6/2022 at 12:04 AM, Dart said:

The WION channel is quite anti-China. I have watched a few of their news and surprise to find this particular Gravitas (WION's prime-time show) not laced with anti-China propaganda and hence well grounded so I thought and decided to post it.

WION is rather biased in the reporting, and hence I don't give it much weight in terms of their views and analysis.

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:55 AM, singalion said:

Wrong causation.

 

Was there any need for the PRC to do any military drills and enter the Taiwan zone?

 

You should learn to look at the real reasons that caused the flight cancellations.

 

The cancellations were caused by the military actions of China.

Nobody asked them to do that around Taiwan.

 

On 8/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, singalion said:

The reporter calls the trip also "symbolic", but often symbolic acts have changed world politics.

 

On 8/5/2022 at 12:31 PM, singalion said:

It is just a talk and shake hands between the House leader and the Taiwan president...

 

Please look at the proportionality of the whole thing...

 

On 8/5/2022 at 6:33 PM, singalion said:

 US is just pushing the Taiwan issue to present a model of governance to the PRC .

 

you do realize you're contradicting yourself...

 

dismissing other's comment as wrong causation, while educating people about the symbolic value of political actions, and oh wait, not just symbolic, but actually teaching PRC a lesson.

 

*SMH*

 

did China overreact, yes.  did China overreact as a big bully? yes.  is Pelosi innocent, hell no.

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On 8/3/2022 at 12:28 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

One cannot judge a country by the actions of some unscrupulous leaders who happen to climb to power and take hold there,  like this abominable Donald Trump, this idiot GW Bush manipulated by Dick Cheney and other republican war mongers,  and even Kennedy who probably never realized the evil criminality of using Agent Orange to deforest North Vietnam, and approved its use.

 

About the US support of Saudi Arabia, including the fist bump by Biden the other days,  there are compromises some leaders have to take that go against morality,  and the support of Saudi Arabia is not so much worse than keeping 377A by your leaders to satisfy their base of voters who keep them in power.

 

America is NOT an evil land,  as our constitution and our laws clearly show America's moral and decent fundamentals.  

 

I think Americans tend to be more idealistic than pragmatic. The country is polarized by political ideology versus and coming together and focusing on what works. In recent years that polarization has become even more extreme under the banner of conservatism, which IMHO, is just a more palatable word for Christianity. 

 

It is interesting how compromises can be made with foreign regimes whose beliefs and values contradict those of the US, yet no compromise can be made within the US for those whose beliefs and values are different. 

Love. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 2:03 PM, sgmaven said:

Like allowing people to carry hand-guns, and prohibiting abortions even in times of rape and incest?

 

LOL!  You hit the bull's eye.  Asia should avoid any Republican Party.

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On 8/5/2022 at 2:04 PM, sgmaven said:

You do know that out of the list of 4 nuclear-armed Asian countries, only 1 can be tacitly considered an ally of the US, don't you?

 

Yes, India can be considered an ally of the US,  although it has a kind of cozy relationship with Russia.

 

Japan is even a better ally of the US, and with 125 million inhabitants it is large enough to be a nuclear power itself.  With the threat of the PRC and N. Korea it seems to be abandoning its pacifist attitude,  and it could develop a substantial nuclear ordnance.  I think that Japan is much more technologically savvy than the Chinese, and if it is their purpose, they could become again a significant military power.   Strong enough that China would not fool around with it.

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On 8/5/2022 at 2:52 PM, doncoin said:

 

I think Americans tend to be more idealistic than pragmatic. The country is polarized by political ideology versus and coming together and focusing on what works. In recent years that polarization has become even more extreme under the banner of conservatism, which IMHO, is just a more palatable word for Christianity. 

 

It is interesting how compromises can be made with foreign regimes whose beliefs and values contradict those of the US, yet no compromise can be made within the US for those whose beliefs and values are different. 

 

I see no harm in a bit of idealism.  It does not need to be in conflict with being pragmatic. 

 

I used to be conservative when I was young,  but I don't find anymore conservatism being "what works".   It might be in some areas, but not across board. 

 

Even if organized Christianity seems to promote conservatism,  I don't find that conservatives follow Jesus Christ's philosophy, which seems quite liberal.  Help thy fellow man!  Rather a camel goes through the eye of a needle than a rich man enters the Kingdom of God.   Instead, for today's conservatives in the US their goal justifies the means, and they have no problems abandoning morality for their power and profits.  And the character Jesus Christ never spoke bad of homosexuality nor abortion.

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On 8/6/2022 at 4:53 AM, Steve5380 said:

Japan is even a better ally of the US, and with 125 million inhabitants it is large enough to be a nuclear power itself.  With the threat of the PRC and N. Korea it seems to be abandoning its pacifist attitude,  and it could develop a substantial nuclear ordnance.  I think that Japan is much more technologically savvy than the Chinese, and if it is their purpose, they could become again a significant military power.   Strong enough that China would not fool around with it.

Japan is pretty tech-savvy, and they would definitely be able to develop their own nuclear capability, if there wasn't so much domestic opposition to that idea. Do remember that this is only country that has suffered two nuclear attacks (not nuclear tests), and that has left an indelible mark on their society.

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On 8/5/2022 at 5:08 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I see no harm in a bit of idealism.  It does not need to be in conflict with being pragmatic. 

 

I used to be conservative when I was young,  but I don't find anymore conservatism being "what works".   It might be in some areas, but not across board. 

 

Even if organized Christianity seems to promote conservatism,  I don't find that conservatives follow Jesus Christ's philosophy, which seems quite liberal.  Help thy fellow man!  Rather a camel goes through the eye of a needle than a rich man enters the Kingdom of God.   Instead, for today's conservatives in the US their goal justifies the means, and they have no problems abandoning morality for their power and profits.  And the character Jesus Christ never spoke bad of homosexuality nor abortion.

 

Idealism in itself has no harm. It is a thought to guide you towards a certain path or achieve certain goals. To me, idealism works only if everything, ceteris paribus, follows according to the plan, which in reality, is usually far from the case. Hence, while idealism does no harm, it achieves no good either. 

Love. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 5:13 PM, doncoin said:

 

Idealism in itself has no harm. It is a thought to guide you towards a certain path or achieve certain goals. To me, idealism works only if everything, ceteris paribus, follows according to the plan, which in reality, is usually far from the case. Hence, while idealism does no harm, it achieves no good either. 

 

I agree.  Most of us have been quite idealistic in the past, when we were very young.   Our idealism however didn't usually materialize.  But, ceteris paribus, no harm is done by it.  

 

I think that although it is transitory,  idealism enriches our spirit in certain ways.  It may prevent us from realities pushing us to the other extreme and become cynical.   I notice this in the difference between the idealistic Americans and my Argentinian countrymen, who with so much failed regimes and economical hardship in their country, they turn cynical and distrust and attack everything. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 4:42 PM, sgmaven said:

Japan is pretty tech-savvy, and they would definitely be able to develop their own nuclear capability, if there wasn't so much domestic opposition to that idea. Do remember that this is only country that has suffered two nuclear attacks (not nuclear tests), and that has left an indelible mark on their society.

 

You are right.  And the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011 made them even more distrustful of nuclear power.  But they should be more fearful of nuclear weapons in the hands of other countries than in their own hands.   And Japan has still nuclear power plants in operation and is restarting more of them.   So they should not have a shortage of material for nuclear weapons.

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Japan has had a rather checkered history with nuclear power. While most people will know and remember the Fukushima Incident, caused by the Great Tohoku Earthquake, there have been other nuclear incidents in the past, with some having been covered up. This has only bred more mistrust amongst the Japanese public with respect to the use of nuclear power.

Слава Україні!

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On 8/6/2022 at 3:15 AM, Gentleman said:

you do realize you're contradicting yourself...

 

dismissing other's comment as wrong causation, while educating people about the symbolic value of political actions, and oh wait, not just symbolic, but actually teaching PRC a lesson.

 

*SMH*

 

did China overreact, yes.  did China overreact as a big bully? yes.  is Pelosi innocent, hell no.

 

Thanks for highlighting my contradiction.

 

Yes, I said that symbolic visits have set off changes.

Yes, on the other hand I said that the military action was by Mainland China.

 

But Pelosi was not in Taiwan to declare the independence of Taiwan, but to demonstrate the continued support of the US for the democratic Taiwan.

 

To be honest on Pelosi not being innocent, what is the difference if Secretary of State Blinken meets Tsai Ing-wen in Zurich, Singapore, Korea or American Samoa?

 

With wrong causation I meant to describe that the flight cancellations were caused by the exaggerated military action of Mainland China and not by the Pelosi visit as there was no need to come up with such "military" response by the PRC.

 

At least we come to the same conclusion, namely that the military response from the PRC was grossly exaggerated and that the PRC resorted to bullying.

 

 

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On 8/6/2022 at 4:53 AM, Steve5380 said:

I think that Japan is much more technologically savvy than the Chinese, and if it is their purpose, they could become again a significant military power.   Strong enough that China would not fool around with it.

When will you be waking up? Your dream is becoming boring.

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