Wish List To End Singaporean"s Suffering

[Guest Piccolo]

There is so much negativity in this thread. Many rich Singaporeans in this site are still blinded by their wealth. Their eyes, ears and mouth are stuffed with dollar bills. So many are clouded by wealth and materialistic goods that they turn a blind eye to the suffering faced by 99.9999% of is. We are in a situation that is no different that Malawi or Somalia. It's just reported our inflation rate is one of the highest in the world our transport system, roads, mrt, busses are one of the worst in the world. Our public housing is the most expansive in the world and has one of the Worst living conditions imaginable. Our education system is in a state of emergency and the worst in the world. These are the complaints we hear everyday in the net. Ain't that true? SDP , NSP, RP has high lighted the dire conditions over and over again. Yet so many of you guys chose to turn a blind eye. Anyway, lets keep the debate going.

Interesing. I want to see how the discussion (or joke) will be endorsed by like minded people, and how this stupidity will continue.

[youngdoctor]

IloveSG, please keep your posts coming! They are oddly riveting and immensely enlightening!

[Guest IloveSG]

To solve the overcrowding of sg with foreigners and the constant complaints many many Singaporeans have about the Chinese, Indians and pinoys. Do you think singapore should cut off diplomatic ties with China? India and Philippines? That will stop the influx of people from those countries an please singaporeans. What do you guys think?

[Guest FairPlay]

IloveSG, you said there were "so much negativity in this thread" but ironically every sentence in your last post was loaded with negativism. You sounded like one of those people who had believed the world would end on 21 Dec 2012.

To equate our "suffering" to that of Malawi or Somalia is way over the top and way off the reality chart. What's up, Bro? If Singaporeans are really unhappy, revolt! There is only that many cells in the Whitley Road Detention Centre. Even the much respected LTK and the WP said that we should give the Govt policies time to work. That is the voice of rationality.

[Guest Guest]

Tell me abt suffering when you need a wheel barrow of 50 dollar bills to buy rice....

At this rate of comparison, I think it is just a matter of time we are REALLY only ahead of North Korea.

To solve the overcrowding of sg with foreigners and the constant complaints many many Singaporeans have about the Chinese, Indians and pinoys. Do you think singapore should cut off diplomatic ties with China? India and Philippines? That will stop the influx of people from those countries an please singaporeans. What do you guys think?

We cannot afford to close our doors completely. The issue now lies in the opening of our FLOODGATES. While we shouldn't be closing ourselves up to the extent that North Korea is doing, or how China was in the past, we should really be moderating the influx of the foreign trash significantly. Cutting off diplomatic ties with anyone will put us in the same position as North Korea immediately.

[Guest Guest]

At this rate of comparison, I think it is just a matter of time we are REALLY only ahead of North Korea.

We cannot afford to close our doors completely. The issue now lies in the opening of our FLOODGATES. While we shouldn't be closing ourselves up to the extent that North Korea is doing, or how China was in the past, we should really be moderating the influx of the foreign trash significantly. Cutting off diplomatic ties with anyone will put us in the same position as North Korea immediately.

Come on, man, u mean you are taking what this guy said seriously?

[FSL019]

Wow... I am wondering, how come these people are "rich" enough to come online to post and agree with such a wish list. I guess Somalia and north korea are somewhat the same then? Everyone has Internet there too and can post anything they like. They are also very free to be able to post messages online almost everyday and at any hour.

How did our education system produce people who are so intelligent to come up with such a groundbreaking wish list? Genius! I guess he must be the one who invent the printing machine or an alchemist that can turn everything into gold.

Edited February 3, 2013 by FSL019

[Guest Neh Neh]

All pls do not make further commends post in this thread. You're wasting your energy and time to talk to these anti social harmony trolls, likely multiple names but same one guy. They or perhaps HE is 唯恐Singapore不乱. HE always claim HE represent MANY singaporeans. It is a baseless claim i believe. It is wasting to answer anything baseless no proof or actual survey done. I hope ISA will investigate this thread.

[Guest Neh Neh]

These are not positive discussions. But i feel they are more like 煽动 provocating anti social harmony feelings. This should be reported to ISA for investigation.

[fiction]

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/5-cs-actually-happy-singaporean-012052570.html

if you're truly unhappy, give this a read

[Guest Guest]

http://sg.news.yahoo...-012052570.html

if you're truly unhappy, give this a read

Extremely simplistic and childish aspirations listed inside the article. Good for lying to children about how pretty the world is, but not too good for adults who has their feet firmly planted to the ground. It's time to lift heads out from inside the tortise shell.

[joshboy]

Lets buy an airticket for ILoveSG to somalia. Good bye!

I think he must be one of those opposition dogs hired by them.. the rate now is $7.50 an hour right?

Currently, there is no where in the world that is not suffering as badly as Singapore... Singapore is the most shielded of the global crisis right now.

[Guest Guest]

Lets buy an airticket for ILoveSG to somalia. Good bye!

I think he must be one of those opposition dogs hired by them.. the rate now is $7.50 an hour right?

Currently, there is no where in the world that is not suffering as badly as Singapore... Singapore is the most shielded of the global crisis right now.

Says who? You did a survey to show that there is ABSOLUTELY "no where in the world that is not suffering as badly as Singapore" meh?

You did a survey to prove that " Singapore is the most shielded of the global crisis right now" meh?

[joshboy]

There is so much negativity in this thread. Many rich Singaporeans in this site are still blinded by their wealth. Their eyes, ears and mouth are stuffed with dollar bills. So many are clouded by wealth and materialistic goods that they turn a blind eye to the suffering faced by 99.9999% of is. We are in a situation that is no different that Malawi or Somalia. It's just reported our inflation rate is one of the highest in the world our transport system, roads, mrt, busses are one of the worst in the world. Our public housing is the most expansive in the world and has one of the Worst living conditions imaginable. Our education system is in a state of emergency and the worst in the world. These are the complaints we hear everyday in the net. Ain't that true? SDP , NSP, RP has high lighted the dire conditions over and over again. Yet so many of you guys chose to turn a blind eye. Anyway, lets keep the debate going.

Thanks, you are the 0.0000000000000001% and we are the 99.99999999999%

Fact of the day:

All unskilled workers are choosy, even prisoners and ex-cons who have no education. Life is too good nowadays

That restaurants are filled to the brim with heartlanders and coffeeshop got less people patronizing.

If our transport system is worst in the world then walk, I'm sure u can get better transportation in Zimbabwe. yes lets look at hongkong housing, or would you prefer a mud hut?

Not its not a debate, its a thrashing, and you are the trash. Why don't you just FUCk OFF.. Singapore will be better without pple like u.

[joshboy]

SIA may be privatised but who is the biggest shareholder?

Therefore the moral duty of fair employment is placed on that shareholder since it appoints the board of directors, who more probably than not hold the same blinded opinion as the major shareholder.

There are many more examples of this, private companies owned by Temasek.

SingTel, StarHub, M1, Singapore Power, SBS Transit / ComfortDelgro, SMRT, insert all your healthcare groups here, NTUC, DBS, and the hundreds of subsidiaries owned by these companies, and the thousands of other companies owned by the hundreds of Temasek's other holding companies.

The sole motive of these companies is to generate profit for the shareholders (i.e. Temasek, the government). If it is at the expense of the people, then we just have to learn how to live with it. Unfortunately, this is the way the system works here. The only other country in the world with such a system is China.

Maybe that's why our government feels so "connected" to their citizens.

Huh? At the expense of the people ? How is that? Hello not happy don't subscribe. Business is a win-win situation, you win they win. You get a good service, they earn some money, they also hire pple who could be your relatives and friends.

Hence pple like you are so narrow minded. I believe your boss is at your expense since he is paying you a salary and you are sucking the company dry.

[Guest youngdoctor]

Says who? You did a survey to show that there is ABSOLUTELY "no where in the world that is not suffering as badly as Singapore" meh?

You did a survey to prove that " Singapore is the most shielded of the global crisis right now" meh?

Omg. I am normally not so abrasive but dude, you need a course in statistics (and literature too). It's a figure of speech. Let it go..

Where is IloveSG? I love to read his replies! Please keep commenting! Hahaha

[Guest Youngdoctor]

I think my wish list for Singapore would be:

1. Government sponsored maid services

2. Government reimbursed housing

3. Government paid health care services and treatment

4. Government provided food and drinks

5. No Tax

I know such a place. It's called the big house.

[MobyDick]

Will we ever hit 6.9mil??

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1252131/1/.html

SINGAPORE: Singapore has been ranked the third most expensive city to live in Asia and the sixth in the world.

This is according to the Worldwide Cost of Living 2013 survey conducted by The Economist Intelligence Unit.

The survey compares the cost of living among 131 cities worldwide using New York as a base city.

Its findings show that the relative cost of living in Asian hubs like Singapore and Hong Kong has moved higher.

This is largely due to rising wages and growth in the region, as well as the persistent weakness in Europe.

Tokyo tops the list again this year as the most expensive city to live in, thanks to Japanese deflation, a weaker yen and rising prices across the world.

Among the 27 Asian cities surveyed, Chinese cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen have seen the cost of living continue to rise.

This was fuelled by wage inflation, increasing demand for consumer goods and strict currency controls.

The Worldwide Cost of Living survey is carried out twice yearly.

It compares more than 400 individual prices across 160 products and services.

These include food, drinks, clothing, household supplies and personal care items, home rents, transport, utility bills, private schools, domestic help and recreational costs.

Meanwhile, economic growth has supported inflation and currency swings in Australian cities - placing Sydney and Melbourne at the third and fifth place in the top ten most costliest cities.

Editor of the report, Jon Copestake, said: "The cost of living in Europe has seen relative declines, thanks to economic austerity and currency fears. But Asian cities have also been rising on the back of wage growth and economic optimism. This means that over half of the 20 most expensive cities now hail from Asia and Australasia."

However, Asia also remains host to six of the world's ten cheapest cities - with Tehran clinching the top spot, followed by Jeddah.

- CNA/ir

[haha]

The first post is just retarded.

Edited February 4, 2013 by haha

[joshboy]

agree! Let me relate an incident. My nephew told me that he can't book a KPop concert as its full. He found out from his Singaporean friends that there were many foreigners in that concert! These foreigners are infact allowed to buy tickets overseas for a concert held in Singapore for Singaporeans!!! How absurd is that!!its becomming a worldwide joke! People are laughing at Singaporeans in the world stage now!

yes agreed.. since is a KPop concert.. Koreans should come first!!!! Then koreans will buy it at a subsidized rate! how dare the govt allow non-koreans to watch a Kpop concert.

fuck u understand.. foreigners buy tickets oso complain. .go eat ur shit..

remember that Singaporeans go overseas to watch concert too.. then we should be banned.

[joshboy]

Will we ever hit 6.9mil??

http://www.channelne...1252131/1/.html

SINGAPORE: Singapore has been ranked the third most expensive city to live in Asia and the sixth in the world.

This is according to the Worldwide Cost of Living 2013 survey conducted by The Economist Intelligence Unit.

The survey compares the cost of living among 131 cities worldwide using New York as a base city.

Its findings show that the relative cost of living in Asian hubs like Singapore and Hong Kong has moved higher.

This is largely due to rising wages and growth in the region, as well as the persistent weakness in Europe.

Tokyo tops the list again this year as the most expensive city to live in, thanks to Japanese deflation, a weaker yen and rising prices across the world.

Among the 27 Asian cities surveyed, Chinese cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen have seen the cost of living continue to rise.

This was fuelled by wage inflation, increasing demand for consumer goods and strict currency controls.

The Worldwide Cost of Living survey is carried out twice yearly.

It compares more than 400 individual prices across 160 products and services.

These include food, drinks, clothing, household supplies and personal care items, home rents, transport, utility bills, private schools, domestic help and recreational costs.

Meanwhile, economic growth has supported inflation and currency swings in Australian cities - placing Sydney and Melbourne at the third and fifth place in the top ten most costliest cities.

Editor of the report, Jon Copestake, said: "The cost of living in Europe has seen relative declines, thanks to economic austerity and currency fears. But Asian cities have also been rising on the back of wage growth and economic optimism. This means that over half of the 20 most expensive cities now hail from Asia and Australasia."

However, Asia also remains host to six of the world's ten cheapest cities - with Tehran clinching the top spot, followed by Jeddah.

- CNA/ir

its not accurate because it takes nominal value.

Many other asian countries have entry wage level at USD100-300 a month.. you want to join them?

In Singapore is USD1000, effectively dividing everything by 10.

furthermore we got strong currency, hence wonder why all of us can afford to go overseas ?

[joshboy]

Says who? You did a survey to show that there is ABSOLUTELY "no where in the world that is not suffering as badly as Singapore" meh?

You did a survey to prove that " Singapore is the most shielded of the global crisis right now" meh?

No need survey, just look at the property prices world wide.. its all depressed.. only in Singapore pple have confidence in our currency and our property market

[joshboy]

Salah.... I happened to live in an electoral ward that was won by Mr. Chiam See Tong for 28 years.

In fact, I have been supporting him and now, Mrs Chiam up to the 2011 Election since 1984.

Furthermore, I really find my current PAP MP disgusting..

I had shouting battles with him at his meet-the-people session..so, I cannot be a PAP man...

Never once in my life did my vote went to the "Lightning" clan.

I am sorry TS and I do know that we are very concerned about the omni-presence of foreigners here.

It is just a global trend of transmigration. Instead of "shutting ourselves inwards", we should embrace the really talented ones.

The increasing number of tourist arrivals means more income for the domestic economy.

We simply cannot depend on our local spending alone, even with the projected 6.9 million.

It is not good for our local currency without an influx of foreign spendings.

The job market, regardless of vocation and levels, should truly be based on merits.

The example of SQ is slanted as SIA just retrenched and terminated a bunch of foreign pilots.

(see:http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Business/Story/A1Story20130131-399168.html)

Of course, I dont have the figure whether or not, local pilots were laid off (anyone with real statistics?)

Senior citizens (aboe the age of 60) do enjoy discounted/concessionary transport fares during off-peak hours.

There are already hefty subsides available.

It is, therefore, incorrect to say nothing had been done.

Of course, more can be done to improve our standard of living.

By the way, I find it laughable that concert tickets were mentioned as one of the grievances.

Those tickets aint cheap.. so it is not BREAD and BUTTER issue, at all.

really? he's a nice guy.. and you are probably an asshole

[Mgedde]

Send all the foreigners home? WTF!!!

Singapore is similar to Australia in that it was settled by foreigners (ie, Chinese as opposed to native Malays...) who were instrumental in turning it into a place where multinational companies want to be located as a base for their businesses throughout all of Asia Pacific and not just Singapore.

So if you want to send the the 'foreigners' home (including decedents of Chinese not born in Singapore...), fine do that and watch the jobs decline as the multinationals go elsewhere.

My old company also started to pull jobs from Singapore back to London due to the poor level of spoken English in Singapore that is woefully bad, probably due to fact local Singapore schools do not employ NATIVE english teachers to teach the language.

[Guest Guest]

You always have a choice in life. To global nomads if this land n custom irk you so. You can always just leave. An air ticket is all you need. U might derive greater satisfaction contributing to your own motherland. May life work out well for Global Nomads.

[Guest Zergling]

Send all the foreigners home? WTF!!!

Singapore is similar to Australia in that it was settled by foreigners (ie, Chinese as opposed to native Malays...) who were instrumental in turning it into a place where multinational companies want to be located as a base for their businesses throughout all of Asia Pacific and not just Singapore.

So if you want to send the the 'foreigners' home (including decedents of Chinese not born in Singapore...), fine do that and watch the jobs decline as the multinationals go elsewhere.

My old company also started to pull jobs from Singapore back to London due to the poor level of spoken English in Singapore that is woefully bad, probably due to fact local Singapore schools do not employ NATIVE english teachers to teach the language.

there are many more economic models to pursue that do not require multinationals to operate in Singapore to give us jobs. Japan, S Korea and now even China have taken the initiative through government-led investments in starting up their own companies - decades later, Japan became the vanguard of technology and now Korea's chaebols like Samsung and Hyundai are taking over the world in their own right. In 20 years, if China continues on that same trajectory, and provided its economy does not get over-heated, Chinese companies will assume that same position.

So now we have all these companies whose countries managed to grow them. In successful East Asian economies like this, indegenous companies employ their natives FIRST and then hire foreigners. What has the government done? Lured MNCs through tax breaks and cheap labour, THAT'S ALL. We need a new economic model, more investments poured into local companies not on foreign ones to provide locals with employment.

[Guest Guest]

If investors and MNCS are attract to low labour wage and low tax rates etc please uproot yourself and go to a other lands where their people are willing to conform and accommodate to your economic model ideals. Go now your fortunes await you over the horizon. Roger and out.

[smallboy]

Read just the first post before I decided not to continue reading. Although the situation of white paper is serious topic and that reducing the number of foreigners is important, we must remember that realistic is also of utmost importance.

No GST and such a high benchmark for all your other caps, the money don't fall from the skies dude. Government still needs the money in order to achieve sustainability. Look at developed countries, such good standards of living including high subsidizing of healthcare, houses are all achieved from very high levels of taxes. Typically 20% to 30% of tax and up till 50% taxes for the high income.

It's important to know the limits although I don't support the white paper too.

[Guest Guest]

Read just the first post before I decided not to continue reading. Although the situation of white paper is serious topic and that reducing the number of foreigners is important, we must remember that realistic is also of utmost importance.

No GST and such a high benchmark for all your other caps, the money don't fall from the skies dude. Government still needs the money in order to achieve sustainability. Look at developed countries, such good standards of living including high subsidizing of healthcare, houses are all achieved from very high levels of taxes. Typically 20% to 30% of tax and up till 50% taxes for the high income.

It's important to know the limits although I don't support the white paper too.

one must be realistic, that wish list is too ridiculous it's almost like its written by a troll. Oh and also on population white paper I'm against it too because knowing miw style n ethos they will definitely pursue economic growth AT ALL COST WITHOUT REGARD TO ANYTHING ELSE. Population growth should be implement in suitable time intervals not like how miw do things style. Ppl seek middle ground but they go to the extremes. $$$ is so alluring isn't it? Please try n bring it to the grave ok ? I hope u guys succeed in this grand feat u educated fools who don't know what exactly is LIFE.

[Guest Guest]

No need survey, just look at the property prices world wide.. its all depressed.. only in Singapore pple have confidence in our currency and our property market

It is well known that our currency is being manipulated, and our properties are being speculated!

[Guest FairPlay]

there are many more economic models to pursue that do not require multinationals to operate in Singapore to give us jobs. Japan, S Korea and now even China have taken the initiative through government-led investments in starting up their own companies - decades later, Japan became the vanguard of technology and now Korea's chaebols like Samsung and Hyundai are taking over the world in their own right. In 20 years, if China continues on that same trajectory, and provided its economy does not get over-heated, Chinese companies will assume that same position.

So now we have all these companies whose countries managed to grow them. In successful East Asian economies like this, indegenous companies employ their natives FIRST and then hire foreigners. What has the government done? Lured MNCs through tax breaks and cheap labour, THAT'S ALL. We need a new economic model, more investments poured into local companies not on foreign ones to provide locals with employment.

How did we come to where we are now if not for the MNCs? We would have long withered economically had we relied only on trading. MNCs have been the seeds to our prosperity and will continue to do so as they use Singapore as a springboard to reach out to the rest of the Asia Pacific market.

Lets put things in the proper perspectives. South Korea has a population of around 50 million, Taiwan 23 million and China? Don't need to mention. They have the critical mass to support domestic economy. Samsung and Hyundai started making goods for the local industry, perhaps through their government's import substitution policy. Only when they consolidated their position domestically that they entered the international foray. Invariably, they managed to capture the foreign market by pricing their products very low. How did they do that? By having a low cost base because labor was abundant. Onwards, they invested on R&D and improved on quality and technology and eventually became respectable and sought after International brands.

Our domestic economy is just simply too small to be sustainable and self-sufficient. Creative Technology would not have survived if it just relied on Singapore market. Hyflux would not have been a respectable name in water purification if it just handle Singapore's thirst for water.

We don't have to take any extraneous measure to prevent MNCs from coming to Singapore. They will stop coming on their own if they cannot justify the high cost of doing business here in Singapore. Those that rely on cheap labour will not consider coming to Singapore. Even our local companies are uprooting to lower cost manufacturing bases elsewhere. So, with these companies going out, how will more jobs be created? Artificially creating jobs in the Civil Service, just like many oil-rich countries did? Are we going to regress economically?

Lest we forget, we have been successful partly because we have been faster, became smarter earlier and less corrupt than our neighbors. But this will not continue to be if we remain static. The economies of Indonesia and Philippines are on the upswing. Soon as they get into the momentum and develop a vibrant economy, Singapore risks losing our relevance as a regional / international hub. When that happens, we no longer have to worry about foreigners coming in to steal our jobs. That time we will really have to worry about our livelihood and economic survival.

[Guest Guest]

How did we come to where we are now if not for the MNCs? We would have long withered economically had we relied only on trading. MNCs have been the seeds to our prosperity and will continue to do so as they use Singapore as a springboard to reach out to the rest of the Asia Pacific market.

Lets put things in the proper perspectives. South Korea has a population of around 50 million, Taiwan 23 million and China? Don't need to mention. They have the critical mass to support domestic economy. Samsung and Hyundai started making goods for the local industry, perhaps through their government's import substitution policy. Only when they consolidated their position domestically that they entered the international foray. Invariably, they managed to capture the foreign market by pricing their products very low. How did they do that? By having a low cost base because labor was abundant. Onwards, they invested on R&D and improved on quality and technology and eventually became respectable and sought after International brands.

Our domestic economy is just simply too small to be sustainable and self-sufficient. Creative Technology would not have survived if it just relied on Singapore market. Hyflux would not have been a respectable name in water purification if it just handle Singapore's thirst for water.

We don't have to take any extraneous measure to prevent MNCs from coming to Singapore. They will stop coming on their own if they cannot justify the high cost of doing business here in Singapore. Those that rely on cheap labour will not consider coming to Singapore. Even our local companies are uprooting to lower cost manufacturing bases elsewhere. So, with these companies going out, how will more jobs be created? Artificially creating jobs in the Civil Service, just like many oil-rich countries did? Are we going to regress economically?

Lest we forget, we have been successful partly because we have been faster, became smarter earlier and less corrupt than our neighbors. But this will not continue to be if we remain static. The economies of Indonesia and Philippines are on the upswing. Soon as they get into the momentum and develop a vibrant economy, Singapore risks losing our relevance as a regional / international hub. When that happens, we no longer have to worry about foreigners coming in to steal our jobs. That time we will really have to worry about our livelihood and economic survival.

And because we are reliant on MNCs, we should allow them to perpetually abuse us forever? Perhaps the Indians at Bhopal should also thank Union Carbide for providing them with jobs, when in fact that MNC was contaminating their land everyday to the extent that it is still hazardous for human living today? So because we want MNCs here in Singapore, we bring in anyone who tries to deliberately suppress our wages (or perhaps don't even bother hiring any of us) for the rest of their stay here, while they enjoy the low taxes and the existing infrastructure that are already in place???

Do we want the same type of MNC that are going into Indonesia or Philippines? Think before you comment!

[Guest Guest]

Send all the foreigners home? WTF!!!

Singapore is similar to Australia in that it was settled by foreigners (ie, Chinese as opposed to native Malays...) who were instrumental in turning it into a place where multinational companies want to be located as a base for their businesses throughout all of Asia Pacific and not just Singapore.

So if you want to send the the 'foreigners' home (including decedents of Chinese not born in Singapore...), fine do that and watch the jobs decline as the multinationals go elsewhere.

My old company also started to pull jobs from Singapore back to London due to the poor level of spoken English in Singapore that is woefully bad, probably due to fact local Singapore schools do not employ NATIVE english teachers to teach the language.

LOL! And your company had no clue about our level of English when they set up shop here??? LOL!

[Guest FairPlay]

And because we are reliant on MNCs, we should allow them to perpetually abuse us forever? Perhaps the Indians at Bhopal should also thank Union Carbide for providing them with jobs, when in fact that MNC was contaminating their land everyday to the extent that it is still hazardous for human living today? So because we want MNCs here in Singapore, we bring in anyone who tries to deliberately suppress our wages (or perhaps don't even bother hiring any of us) for the rest of their stay here, while they enjoy the low taxes and the existing infrastructure that are already in place???

Do we want the same type of MNC that are going into Indonesia or Philippines? Think before you comment!

To me it is obvious who should think before commenting. However, I do understand that strong emotions can and do cloud rational thinking.

To use Bhopal incident to insinuate that all MNCs are evil is incredulous. You really want to talk about corporate responsibility that include social and environmental responsibilities. Try not to confuse the issue here. Come to think of it, I wonder who contaminate the once pristine rivers and lakes of China; who fouled the airs of Beijing. Not just the "unscrupulous" MNCs, but local industries and farmers as well, my dear intellectual.

[Guest FairPlay]

By the way, I should be the one who should be vehemently anti-MNCs. I run a local SME. Like many similar sized companies, we are experiencing huge difficulties in attracting local talents and young graduates who only see their futures in large corporations, locals and MNCs included. That is the reality that we have to content with. So why am I not really angry at them? Becuase our businesses and lives are so interconnected. We depend on MNCs as our customers as well. So, it is a Catch-22 situation. Instead of crying foul, we will just have to find creative ways of overcoming our problems. That is the real challenge.

[Guest Guest]

By the way, I should be the one who should be vehemently anti-MNCs. I run a local SME. Like many similar sized companies, we are experiencing huge difficulties in attracting local talents and young graduates who only see their futures in large corporations, locals and MNCs included. That is the reality that we have to content with. So why am I not really angry at them? Becuase our businesses and lives are so interconnected. We depend on MNCs as our customers as well. So, it is a Catch-22 situation. Instead of crying foul, we will just have to find creative ways of overcoming our problems. That is the real challenge.

It is not that locals are trying to shun the SMEs, it is just that owners of such SMEs usually do not want to pay according to the cost of living that we encounter here, and employees there are usually faced with dead-end jobs which will not give them any more pay increase in the future. Any bonus payout is subject to the whim and fancy of the owners themselves.

The usage of Bhopal was a great example to illustrate the point. The question remained: Just because we need MNCs around, do we really bring in any Tom, Dick and Harry corporations indiscriminately?

[monochrome]

Well the argument between MNCs versus locally-grown companies does not have to be a zero sum game. It all depends on which industry and what type of jobs they're creating. That said, one of the biggest mistakes of our government is not to invest more to grow our local companies into what they can become. We industrialised around the same time as other East Asian nations, and while it is true that we do not have a large population, we have access to a vast hinterland that extends from Indonesia up to Malaysia, Thailand, Burma etc. But it is just too bad that LKY has been far too arrogant and borderline racist to not want to utilise such resources instead, they've decided to pursue quick, relentless growth through MNCs.

Indeed we do owe our prosperity to MNCs but therein lies the problem: an over-reliance on MNCs means we are subject to their employment terms. Economists call this the race to the bottom. They will leave whenever they see fit, for example on wages, many don't particularly care if their employees are earning peanuts and working in sweatshop conditions. But it would've been better if we had grown our own large companies alongside MNCs in non-competing industries. Access to labour? No problem, move the factories elsewhere in Southeast Asia. Advanced developed countries are the ones who have grown their MNCs from scratch but Singapore has close to zero. It is them who dictate the terms of this "race to the bottom" and to be entirely selfish, that is where we need to be to sustain this relentless growth: on top of the economic totem pole. Instead of moving up the economic chain to be the global employer, we have remained the global employees.

Many have mentioned that if not for the MNCs, we would never have experienced such growth and standard of living. That's true, no denying it. But when it comes to economic models, ours is probably amongst the most vulnerable in the world. Malaysia has chosen to grow slower, but progressively. KL's GDP is about RM50,000 while ours is SGD61,000 - dollar for dollar, we're still able to afford more in terms of global consumption and imported goods but when it comes to domestic consumption on local goods, they're clearly on par with us (a hawker centre meal will cost RM5-6 there while a meal here will cost SGD5-6 too). Factor in living costs like COE and the price of HDB, Malaysians living in KL might actually have more disposable income than us in domestic terms. We might laugh when we go to JB since the exchange rate is SGD1-RM2.4 and be able to buy more but unless we're working in Singapore and living in JB, that currency difference is no big deal.

Then take a look at Indonesia: they're powering forward not due to MNCs or FDIs or exports but by domestic consumption, and growing at an average of 6-6.5%. This means that their economy is very certainly immune to global swings in economy, but this might change once investors start tapping into the vast natural resources which they are still at the negotiating table. If anything happens, they still have domestic consumption to fall back on. I'm not saying that their economies are better, don't mistake me. I'm saying that they're growing slower over a longer term at a much more viable pace and sustainable way while we shot forward quickly and hastily. When it comes to comparative economic growth: could this the story of the tortoise and the hare?

Now back to the white paper. The plans for the next 20 years was decided in a mere 5 days, or 120 hours. 20 years in 120 hours - go figure. Many of the points in that paper just shows that the government is incapable of managing an economy that has moved beyond our initial stages as a developing country and is depending on cheap foreign labour to keep MNCs here. There is nothing innovative nor sustainable about this. My points here are of course, always up for debate and I certainly welcome them. But as nightingale above has mentioned do keep it civil and there is no need to degenerate into another thread full of personal insults.

Thanks for reading, god bless and wishing everyone a happy new year.

[Guest Guest]

So the keyword is other choose "sustainability" while pappies choose "crash n burn". Pinky pls step down.

[Guest FairPlay]

One sentence should sum everything up...... We are the victims of our own successes.

[Guest Amanda Krueger]

Even at this junction in time there might still be a way to save ourself, the key lie in the shift of upper-middle class heart. Sacrifice need to be made and it will be painful will they do it? If we fail to raise up to the occassion as one we will be gone. And the next season of change will fall into the hands of new immigrants when they too become disillusion and have outlast their usefulness.

[Mgedde]

Fundamentally foreigners are working in Singapore because they are makng a sacrifice of living away from their homeland, family, and friends, in order to build a career. So why don't more Singaporeans do the same; move overseas, experience new cultures, become more worldly and in the process acquire new skills that will very likely make them more marketable whenever they decide to move back to Singapore?

Say someone from Singapore went to the US or the UK or Oz to live and work, well guess what, there are no maids from 3rd world countries in those places to do your cleaning, ironing, babysitting, shopping, etc. There are great career building opportunities to be had but it means stepping outside of your comfort zone and living away from your family and friends and the typical underpaid Filipino maid. In my experience Singaporeans are very reluctant to move away from home which is fine but then don't complain to me about not being able to get ahead.

[Guest End]

Fundamentally foreigners are working in Singapore because they are makng a sacrifice of living away from their homeland, family, and friends, in order to build a career. So why don't more Singaporeans do the same; move overseas, experience new cultures, become more worldly and in the process acquire new skills that will very likely make them more marketable whenever they decide to move back to Singapore?

Say someone from Singapore went to the US or the UK or Oz to live and work, well guess what, there are no maids from 3rd world countries in those places to do your cleaning, ironing, babysitting, shopping, etc. There are great career building opportunities to be had but it means stepping outside of your comfort zone and living away from your family and friends and the typical underpaid Filipino maid. In my experience Singaporeans are very reluctant to move away from home which is fine but then don't complain to me about not being able to get ahead.

one of our very own lady mp essentially say the same thing too haha. They sure cant wait for us to fall for it so that they will be less buggers off their backs. The things is we Asians think things differently. We don't wish to be global nomads cause we don't want to impose the same kind of tension/stress to other people like what others have done to us.

[Guest Guest]

N we are not spoiled we have no choice but to rely on maids cos young parents need to work very hard n long to bring food to the table. N we need domestic helpers at home to care for our parents n kid so that we can feel at ease when going to work. The various institutions n labour laws have nurtured such an social environment today. Pls look beyond the surface n see our woes don't judge us too quickly n harshly pls. I don't see many foreigner bringing their old n feeble parents to tag along while they are making a killing here..

[Guest Guest]

Fundamentally foreigners are working in Singapore because they are makng a sacrifice of living away from their homeland, family, and friends, in order to build a career. So why don't more Singaporeans do the same; move overseas, experience new cultures, become more worldly and in the process acquire new skills that will very likely make them more marketable whenever they decide to move back to Singapore?

Say someone from Singapore went to the US or the UK or Oz to live and work, well guess what, there are no maids from 3rd world countries in those places to do your cleaning, ironing, babysitting, shopping, etc. There are great career building opportunities to be had but it means stepping outside of your comfort zone and living away from your family and friends and the typical underpaid Filipino maid. In my experience Singaporeans are very reluctant to move away from home which is fine but then don't complain to me about not being able to get ahead.

Well... I got news for you, buster! I got my MBA from one of the best universities in this world. And I spent more than enough of my life overseas working for years upon years. When I got back, guess what? I thought I would be able to get ahead.

But nooooooooooooo...... Foreign MNCs would rather hire their own trash then take in a Singaporean. And I spent an entire year jobless before I have to settle for a job with a 50% pay cut.

So there goes your stupid hypothesis of "In my experience Singaporeans are very reluctant to move away from home which is fine but then don't complain to me about not being able to get ahead".

[Guest 永春门副帮主]

One sentence should sum everything up...... We are the victims of our own successes.

Agree.

Well... I got news for you, buster! I got my MBA from one of the best universities in this world. And I spent more than enough of my life overseas working for years upon years. When I got back, guess what? I thought I would be able to get ahead.

But nooooooooooooo...... Foreign MNCs would rather hire their own trash then take in a Singaporean. And I spent an entire year jobless before I have to settle for a job with a 50% pay cut.

So there goes your stupid hypothesis of "In my experience Singaporeans are very reluctant to move away from home which is fine but then don't complain to me about not being able to get ahead".

Poor thing.

[Mgedde]

N we are not spoiled we have no choice but to rely on maids cos young parents need to work very hard n long to bring food to the table. N we need domestic helpers at home to care for our parents n kid so that we can feel at ease when going to work. The various institutions n labour laws have nurtured such an social environment today. Pls look beyond the surface n see our woes don't judge us too quickly n harshly pls. I don't see many foreigner bringing their old n feeble parents to tag along while they are making a killing here..

So how do you think young parents in the US, UK, Australia or any other western country get by without an underpaid maid? They too have young kids and old parents to take care of. It's called real hard work!

Welcome to the real world kid !

[limpeh]

So how do you think young parents in the US, UK, Australia or any other western country get by without an underpaid maid? They too have young kids and old parents to take care of. It's called real hard work!

Welcome to the real world kid !

I think he was pointing out to the the labour and social laws, as well as the environment in which we work in on a national level, rather than complaining about needing a maid. These countries you quote above place family life above work. Singaporeans complain a lot that Australian stores close at 6, that their offices stop working and no one gets anything done after that. Yes, but as an employee, getting off work at 5 means reaching home at 5:30-6 (most people drive in Australia) and the roads aren't terribly congested), and that gives time to make dinner and spend time with the kids.

This is just one example. Here, I end work at 8, sometimes 9. If i was a straight married man planning to have kids, I would find it impossible to find the time and energy to raise even one.

[Guest Guest]

Why are you still here? You should take the next available plane out to Africa. Have a safe journey !!!

[bluesea78]

I think he was pointing out to the the labour and social laws, as well as the environment in which we work in on a national level, rather than complaining about needing a maid. These countries you quote above place family life above work. Singaporeans complain a lot that Australian stores close at 6, that their offices stop working and no one gets anything done after that. Yes, but as an employee, getting off work at 5 means reaching home at 5:30-6 (most people drive in Australia) and the roads aren't terribly congested), and that gives time to make dinner and spend time with the kids.

This is just one example. Here, I end work at 8, sometimes 9. If i was a straight married man planning to have kids, I would find it impossible to find the time and energy to raise even one.

yes, i do agree those countries have better work life balance, family and frens above work..

try singapore.. even after working hrs.. fone call comes in, if it is work related..most prolly you will try to get it done.. even it is after working hours.

[Guest Amanda Kreuger]

Out of the sea of collective consciousness a common voice has already form in singapore ground,citizens need to calm down and clear their heart of anger/hate because emotions cloud judgement and rationale. Once the head is clear people unity/resolve will be strengthen, this "strength" will give form, identity n substance to the people voice. This VOICE will be the blade to finally cut off the ties of tyranny n set this land free. With a new dawn we also can't afford to be overwhelm with joy for there is much repair work to be done to our social ethos/values and moral decay. The road to nation building will be hard but we will be happy because we can finally call this land as our HOME. ( In short it means we need to stay calm and focus on the issues at hand and never take our freedom for granted when liberation arrive.)