Buddhism Discussion

[wilfgene]

There are bodhisattvas, arahats and another term for Theravada Buddhism as opposed to Greater Vehicle.

[wanton_mee]

Anyone going to 福慧讲堂 every tues 7.45pm session? BTW issit open ?

[SG43]

I used to from Soka, Nichiren school chanting Nam- myoho- renge- kyo. Leaving the Soka organization. Pure Land Buddhist now. 

[fab]

2 hours ago, SG43 said:

I used to from Soka, Nichiren school chanting Nam- myoho- renge- kyo. Leaving the Soka organization. Pure Land Buddhist now. 

 

Y the switch? 

[fab]

Quote

@Steve5380

 

Buddhists, on the other hand,  descend of themselves in earlier incarnations.  Is there a way to know when one was first created, and how many incarnations have followed? And how is one first created?

 

 

To the buddhists,  creation is not important. 

 

More importantly,  is the cessation of samsara. 

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, fab said:

 

To the buddhists,  creation is not important. 

 

More importantly,  is the cessation of samsara. 

 

To the scientists and practical intelligent people,  creation is important,

while cessation of samsara is a nice speculation of reincarnation, and within it, the  ultimate goal.

What should also be important is to be productive and make this world a better place.

.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Steve5380

[SG43]

5 hours ago, fab said:

 

Y the switch? 

Buddhism is not about keep chanting to fulfill wishes. Shayamuni Buddha taught more that what is been preached in Soka. 

[Steve5380]

4 minutes ago, SG43 said:

Buddhism is not about keep chanting to fulfill wishes. Shayamuni Buddha taught more that what is been preached in Soka. 

 

You are right.  To keep chanting to fulfill wishes is what some lovers of music do to train their voice and become professional opera singers.  

[fab]

1 hour ago, SG43 said:

Buddhism is not about keep chanting to fulfill wishes. Shayamuni Buddha taught more that what is been preached in Soka. 

 

Actually orthodox chanting is never about fulfilling wishes. The few things we should chant for are wisdom, compassion,  enlightenment and repentance.  Chanting is a tool gifted to us to achieve the above few.

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, fab said:

 

Actually orthodox chanting is never about fulfilling wishes. The few things we should chant for are wisdom, compassion,  enlightenment and repentance.  Chanting is a tool gifted to us to achieve the above few.

 

To chant for wisdom, compassion, enlightenment and repentance?  

 

Wisdom comes from studying, researching, analyzing.   Compassion results from observation and empathy.  Enlightenment comes from wisdom + compassion.

What about repentance?  Do no harm, live a moral life, and there should be little reason for repentance.

 

Can chanting be a source of money?  (besides singing at weddings and funerals or while panhandling) 

[Guest I AM]

The existence of this planet is not made perfect by human but was perfected on its own without human.  When "I" came into existence, I do not come to change and I do not need someone's approval.  I am part of nature and evolve with nature.  I know where to find nourishment, joy and freedom according to my consciousness and conscience.  Your belief is getting in my way, for the fact that you are not 100% sure  you can achieve in those belief that you believed. You are afterall, blood and fresh, and with emotion added to those, you are absolutely fucked!!!!   I am here not to guide or save you.  I am an independent spirit, with all the right elements combined, drifting in and out of space, across time, among humanity and creatures, that lurks in the  light and dark.   I am neither your saint nor the devil.   I am not as frightening as you would imagine, but you should never attempt to test my existence.  I never make you a judge in my life, for you are already a prisoner in yours.    What do you think is my belief?   I am who I am!

[Steve5380]

18 hours ago, Guest I AM said:

When "I" came into existence, I do not come to change and I do not need someone's approval.  I am part of nature and evolve with nature.  I know where to find nourishment, joy and freedom according to my consciousness and conscience. 

... You are afterall, blood and fresh, and with emotion added to those, you are absolutely fucked!!!!  

 

 

Of course you know where to find nourishment, joy and freedom.  You find your nourishment in the many food stores in your neighborhood,  you find joy and freedom in Keybox, Ten Men, Hook Club now that they are open again.  Hopefully your conscience is in agreement with your stomach, and your dick.

 

I AM after all blood and flesh, and added emotions.  Does this mean that I am absolutely fucked?   I don't think so.  You may be more fucked than I am.    

[TT2880]

When we say that the mind is empty, we do not mean that it is a void in the way that space is empty. Space is indeed empty, but it does not have the ability to know, to see, or to reflect. Space is a "dead emptiness." When we say that the nature of mind is emptiness, we mean that the mind is not a solid or fixed entity. It cannot be found, no matter where we look. Nonetheless it has the ability to understand and reflect. This ability to think and know is what we mean when we speak of the mind's luminosity. 

In the sutras, this luminosity is called buddha essence. Buddha essence is the union of wisdom and space. But this space is an alive space (Skt. dhatu ), connoting spaciousness, vastness, and reality. We call this spaciousness "emptiness," and by wisdom we mean "the luminosity of the mind." We might think that because the mind is empty it could not have the ability to know. But actually emptiness and luminosity are not contrary. While the mind is empty, it is luminous. And just as it is luminous and aware, so it is entirely empty . 

When we say the mind is empty, we do not mean that it ceases or is nonexistent. Suppose we feel tremendous aggression toward someone. If we look for where the thought and feeling of hatred come from, we do not  find anything. Similarly, if we look to see where thoughts and feelings of pain and sadness come from and where they are now, we do not find anything. Yet, despite our inability to find the mind, the mind is luminous, it has the capacity to know. Thus we say the mind is naturally the union of luminosity and emptiness. Resting our mind evenly in the recognition of this is called vipashyana.

~Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche

[TT2880]

While the Buddha did teach that the nature of the mind—in fact, the nature of all phenomena—is emptiness, he didn’t mean that their nature was truly empty, like a vacuum. He said it was emptiness, which in the Tibetan language is made up of two words: tongpa-nyi. The word tongpa means “empty,” but only in the sense of something beyond our ability to perceive with our senses and our capacity to conceptualize. Maybe a better translation would be “inconceivable” or “unnamable.” The word nyi, meanwhile, doesn’t have any particular meaning in everyday Tibetan conversation. But when added to another word it conveys a sense of “possibility”—a sense that anything can arise, anything can happen. So when Buddhists talk about emptiness, we don’t mean nothingness, but rather an unlimited potential for anything to appear, change, or disappear.

Perhaps we can use an analogy here to what contemporary physicists have learned about the strange and wonderful phenomena they see when they examine the inner workings of an atom. According to the physicists with whom I’ve spoken, the basis from which all subatomic phenomena arise is often referred to as the vacuum state, the state of lowest energy in the subatomic universe. In the vacuum state, particles continually appear and disappear. So, although seemingly empty, this state is actually very active, full of the potential to produce anything whatsoever. In this sense, the vacuum shares certain qualities with the “empty quality of the mind.” Just as the vacuum is considered “empty,” yet is the source from which all manner of particles appear, the mind is essentially “empty” in that it defies absolute description. Yet out of this indefinable and incompletely knowable basis, all thoughts, emotions, and sensations perpetually arise. Because the nature of your mind is emptiness, you possess the capacity to experience a potentially unlimited variety of thoughts, emotions, and sensations. Even misunderstandings of emptiness are simply phenomena arising out of emptiness!
~Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Edited September 14, 2020 by TT2880
Correction

[Guest hi there]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:23 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

To chant for wisdom, compassion, enlightenment and repentance?  

 

Wisdom comes from studying, researching, analyzing.   Compassion results from observation and empathy.  Enlightenment comes from wisdom + compassion.

What about repentance?  Do no harm, live a moral life, and there should be little reason for repentance.

 

Can chanting be a source of money?  (besides singing at weddings and funerals or while panhandling) 

Wisdom comes from enlightenment, not the other way around.  Not talking about the Buddha's type of enlightenment but the small incrementals.  Wisdom is 戒定慧's 慧.  It's not from studying, researching, analyzing, this knowledge acquired is called 世智辯聰.  You need to practise buddhism and with proper practise, then you get wisdom.

[mature chn]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:29 PM, SG43 said:

I used to from Soka, Nichiren school chanting Nam- myoho- renge- kyo. Leaving the Soka organization. Pure Land Buddhist now. 

Hi there,

First, whats the difference between the two. Where do you go as a Pure Land Buddhist?

[Steve5380]

11 hours ago, Guest hi there said:

Wisdom comes from enlightenment, not the other way around.  Not talking about the Buddha's type of enlightenment but the small incrementals.  Wisdom is 戒定慧's 慧.  It's not from studying, researching, analyzing, this knowledge acquired is called 世智辯聰.  You need to practise buddhism and with proper practise, then you get wisdom.

 

Yes, I made a mistake writing "wisdom comes from studying, researching, analyzing. The word should have been "knowledge".   But enlightenment is a progression from wisdom and its consequential empathy, compassion.

 

Like with other religious venerations, what is relevant is not the organized Buddhism but the philosophy that gave rise to it.

[Guest hi there]

On 9/15/2020 at 11:26 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes, I made a mistake writing "wisdom comes from studying, researching, analyzing. The word should have been "knowledge".   But enlightenment is a progression from wisdom and its consequential empathy, compassion.

 

Like with other religious venerations, what is relevant is not the organized Buddhism but the philosophy that gave rise to it.

 

Wisdom does not come from knowledge either !  Acquiring knowledge may be a step for us to gain enlightenment but even without knowledge, we can get wisdom and enlightenment.  

eg, you don't need to know any buddhism, any sutra. Just recite Amituofo and you can get enlightenment (I'm not talking about going Pureland, I'm talking about 理一心不乱). 

You can talk about buddhist philosophy if you are interested but the 2 can totally be delinked.  Buddhism does not come form philosophy.

I just want to point out this to you and not get into an prolong discussion.  Hope you find our more about buddhism.  

 

[fab]

On 9/15/2020 at 11:26 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes, I made a mistake writing "wisdom comes from studying, researching, analyzing. The word should have been "knowledge".   But enlightenment is a progression from wisdom and its consequential empathy, compassion.

 

Like with other religious venerations, what is relevant is not the organized Buddhism but the philosophy that gave rise to it.

 

Not the first, won't be the last.

 

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Guest hi there said:

 

Wisdom does not come from knowledge either !  Acquiring knowledge may be a step for us to gain enlightenment but even without knowledge, we can get wisdom and enlightenment.  

eg, you don't need to know any buddhism, any sutra. Just recite Amituofo and you can get enlightenment (I'm not talking about going Pureland, I'm talking about 理一心不乱). 

You can talk about buddhist philosophy if you are interested but the 2 can totally be delinked.  Buddhism does not come form philosophy.

I just want to point out this to you and not get into an prolong discussion.  Hope you find our more about buddhism.  

 

 

I agree that you don't need to know any Buddhism to be enlightened.  A simple definition of it is:

 

"education or awareness that brings change".

 

Buddhists seem to have an exclusivity over the term "enlightenment", which it is much wider than its use in the Buddhist philosophy.  For example:

 

I am enlightened that karma and reincarnation is a speculation about the meaning and nature of our existence. Therefore it is part of a philosophy.  Most religions have a component that is philosophical speculation,  because they cannot back them up with reality.  Buddhism is not much of a religion, so it is mostly philosophical.  The physical results of a practice of Buddhism, meditation for example, could belong to neuroscience, medicine.

 

3 hours ago, fab said:

 

Not the first, won't be the last.

 

 

You can say this with authority, since you must have plenty of personal experience.    

[Guest hi hi]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:38 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I agree that you don't need to know any Buddhism to be enlightened.  A simple definition of it is:

 

"education or awareness that brings change".

 

Buddhists seem to have an exclusivity over the term "enlightenment", which it is much wider than its use in the Buddhist philosophy.  For example:

 

I am enlightened that karma and reincarnation is a speculation about the meaning and nature of our existence. Therefore it is part of a philosophy.  Most religions have a component that is philosophical speculation,  because they cannot back them up with reality.  Buddhism is not much of a religion, so it is mostly philosophical.  The physical results of a practice of Buddhism, meditation for example, could belong to neuroscience, medicine.

 

 

You can say this with authority, since you must have plenty of personal experience.    

It is so ingenious when in a discussion thread, a person would then bring in non-buddhist understanding of enlightenment and then try to alter the buddhist understanding of it.

[Steve5380]

3 minutes ago, Guest hi hi said:

It is so ingenious when in a discussion thread, a person would then bring in non-buddhist understanding of enlightenment and then try to alter the buddhist understanding of it.

 

We have to learn to be flexible  

[Guest hi hi]

2 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

We have to learn to be flexible  

 

Like i said lor... disingenuous.  (so for the typo in the earlier msg).  Distorting the teachings.

[Steve5380]

9 minutes ago, Guest hi hi said:

It is so ingenious when in a discussion thread, a person would then bring in non-buddhist understanding of enlightenment and then try to alter the buddhist understanding of it.

 

This would be avoided if Buddhism and the Buddhists here would have a dedicated individualized term for the "Buddhist enlightenment" in English. 

[Guest hi there]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

This would be avoided if Buddhism and the Buddhists here would have a dedicated individualized term for the "Buddhist enlightenment" in English. 

Like a robber robbing a bank complaining why is there a bank for me to rob in the first place !  

[LeanMature]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

We have to learn to be flexible 

 

Like some caucasian monks drumming guitar and singing English Buddhist songs like what they did in Christianity. 

 

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

This would be avoided if Buddhism and the Buddhists here would have a dedicated individualized term for the "Buddhist enlightenment" in English. 

 

As long as we unenlightened beings remain unenlighten, whatever term in whatever language is unsubstantiated. 

[Guest hi there]

8 hours ago, LeanMature said:

 

Like some caucasian monks drumming guitar and singing English Buddhist songs like what they did in Christianity. 

 

 

As long as we unenlightened beings remain unenlighten, whatever term in whatever language is unsubstantiated. 

Initially, I thought he didn't understand buddhism.  Now, I realise he deliberately distort it. Disingenuous is a mild term for him.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Guest hi there said:

Initially, I thought he didn't understand buddhism.  Now, I realise he deliberately distort it. Disingenuous is a mild term for him.

 

Oh, I have been accused of much worse than that.

 

But I am not a bad person.  I have interest in the differentiation between speculation and reality.  (a somewhat nebulous task since "reality" is not something firm in place).  In the process,  I must question most of the religious doctrines, even philosophies,  and this does not fit well with their believers. 

[TT2880]

Hello.

 

The very purpose of (religion and) spirituality is self-discipline. Rather than criticizing others, we should evaluate and criticize ourselves. Ask ourself, what am I doing about my anger, my attachment, my pride, my jealousy? These are the things we should check in our day to day lives (both online/offline).

 

His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

 

In the Diamond Sutra:

... the Dharma is like a raft, and should be abandon... 

 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

[Steve5380]

6 hours ago, TT2880 said:

Hello.

 

The very purpose of (religion and) spirituality is self-discipline. Rather than criticizing others, we should evaluate and criticize ourselves. Ask ourself, what am I doing about my anger, my attachment, my pride, my jealousy? These are the things we should check in our day to day lives (both online/offline).

 

His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

 

In the Diamond Sutra:

... the Dharma is like a raft, and should be abandon... 

 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

Thank you too.

 

But it may not be correct to say that the purpose of religion is self-discipline.

And self-discipline is only indirectly related to spirituality.

Perhaps some goals inspired by spirituality need self-discipline to get fulfilled.

To criticize is not always negative.  We should not be afraid to criticize others

if we also criticize and control ourselves.

 

The Dharma should be abandoned?   Why?

 

[TT2880]

On 9/23/2020 at 3:40 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Thank you too.

 

But it may not be correct to say that the purpose of religion is self-discipline.

And self-discipline is only indirectly related to spirituality.

Perhaps some goals inspired by spirituality need self-discipline to get fulfilled.

To criticize is not always negative.  We should not be afraid to criticize others

if we also criticize and control ourselves.

 

The Dharma should be abandoned?   Why?

 

Hello.

 

Correct or incorrect, religious or non religious, spiritual or non spiritual, directly or indirectly, positive or negative, afraid or not afraid, inspired or not inspired, goals or no goals, control or no control, self-discipline or no self-discipline, they all are dualistic perspectives that arise from the mind. Is his, is hers, is yours and is mine. 

 

A thinking mind can't be silent. 

A silent mind can be thinking. 

 

As for your last question, Dharma or No-Dharma.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

[earth_tone]

-

Edited September 12, 2021 by earth_tone

[earth_tone]

-

Edited September 12, 2021 by earth_tone

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, TT2880 said:

Hello.

 

Correct or incorrect, religious or non religious, spiritual or non spiritual, directly or indirectly, positive or negative, afraid or not afraid, inspired or not inspired, goals or no goals, control or no control, self-discipline or no self-discipline, they all are dualistic perspectives that arise from the mind. Is his, is hers, is yours and is mine. 

 

A thinking mind can't be silent. 

A silent mind can be thinking. 

 

As for your last question, Dharma or No-Dharma.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your good will to make light out of darkness,

 

but in your statements I marked in bold,  you pinned yourself into a circular absurdity.  Too much "silent thinking"?

 

If a silent mind can be thinking, because it is thinking it can't be silent, which contradicts the first premise.

 

It is more practical to see the mind in two states:  1) thinking, which is how it usually is in normal life, and 2) silent, while we sleep, in a coma or otherwise unconscious, or when we are dead.  But even when we are not dead, there is no way to know if we are not thinking while unconscious.  All this is complicated.  And The Buddha didn't have any equipment to measure brain waves, so he probably knew less than our experts today about this. 

 

And yes,  Dharma or No-Dharma covers all the possibilities for Dharma.

 

Have Peace.

 

43 minutes ago, earth_tone said:

Something I am also trying to do and become.

But am not at a stage where I can be as zen and calm as I want to be just yet, I still am too quick to react to negativity.

 

This is natural.  What you can do to reduce negativity is to get out of it as fast as you can.  When angry, remember soon that you can neutralize the anger.  And eventually, you can cut it out nearly completely.

[TT2880]

Hello. 

 

There is no darkness here. There is no light here too. Yet you see darkness and felt that I brought light out of goodwill. But I didn't bring anything nor take away anything. 

 

If my concurrence brings you peace and joy, I am totally fine with what you said. 

 

Thank you. 

 

I like to look at the river or lake or beach or pond that has crystal clear water. And I wld ask, Is the water still or flowing? 

When I look at the mud or see a dirty drain or river and I wld ask, is the water in it dirty or clean? 

Edited September 24, 2020 by TT2880
Add

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, TT2880 said:

Hello. 

 

There is no darkness here. There is no light here too. Yet you see darkness and felt that I brought light out of goodwill. But I didn't bring anything nor take away anything. 

 

If my concurrence brings you peace and joy, I am totally fine with what you said. 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

Thank you too.

 

Dear TT2280,  I understand that you have evolved into one of the Buddhist beings that are ethereal, with pure detachment from everything including simple logic.  I find this fascinating!  Enjoy it!  I like detachment too, so I don't mind if reality convinces you or not.   From all the hints of physics, it is impossible that in a place "here"  there is simultaneously no darkness and no light.  If I can reciprocate with my peace and joy, I wish I make you think (silently or not) about what is reality in a long meditation   

 

Peace  

 

  

 

[TT2880]

The Law of Cause and Effect:

Everything we see and experience, including our current quality of life, has been created by our own actions. The teaching on cause and effect has two parts: the illusory vision and the karmic vision.

First, I will explain the illusory vision. The way we view the world now is grounded in dualism; we view the subject and object separately. Yet in reality neither exists. They are only illusions, like a dream. When we are dreaming, the experience seems real. But when we wake up, there is not even a trace of what we experienced in our dreams. Our lives are also like a great illusory vision. When subject and object are viewed as separate, this is known as dualistic illusory vision. Every ordinary sentient being experiences the world we live in with this dualistic illusory vision.

Second, the karmic vision consists of the different experience each sentient being has based on his or her karma. For example, some beings have more or less suffering, and so on. The actions we perform are like shadows following us wherever we go. There are three kinds of actions: physical, verbal, and mental. There are virtuous, nonvirtuous, and indifferent actions. Nonvirtuous actions are those undertaken out of ignorance, desire, or hatred. There are ten nonvirtuous deeds. Performing an action is like planting a seed. In due course the seed will ripen and produce results. If the root of a tree is poisonous, whatever grows on the tree, such as flowers and leaves, is also poisonous. Similarly, any actions undertaken from desire, hatred, or ignorance will lead to suffering in this life as well as in future lives.

Virtuous deeds are those that arise without the defilements without desire and without hatred and ignorance. Virtuous actions are undertaken from loving-kindness and compassion. For example, if the root of a tree is medicinal, anything that grows on that tree is also medicinal. Similarly, any virtuous deeds created without the defilements will create happiness in
this life as well as in future lives.

Finally, there are actions that are neither virtuous nor nonvirtuous, such as walking and sitting. Since these actions do not produce any negative results, they are better than the nonvirtuous actions; but since they do not produce any positive results, they are inferior to virtuous deeds. It is important to turn indifferent deeds into positive deeds and to abstain from negative deeds.

If you wish to be free from suffering, you must abstain from negative deeds. Begin by abstaining from the cause; if you indulge in a negative cause, then you cannot expect to have happiness as the result.

Therefore, abstain from even the tiniest negative deed, and try your best to practice even the smallest virtuous deeds. In the same way that an accumulation of drops of water forms a great ocean, even tiny virtuous deeds will gradually accumulate and produce a great beneficial result. Regarding indifferent actions that are neither virtuous nor nonvirtuous, you should change your motivation using the skillful means of following the bodhisattva's way of life. You should also try to purify negative deeds through diligent practice.

- The 41st Sakya Trizin. Kyabaon Gonama Trichen Rinooche

[Steve5380]

19 hours ago, TT2880 said:

The Law of Cause and Effect:

Everything we see and experience, including our current quality of life, has been created by our own actions. The teaching on cause and effect has two parts: the illusory vision and the karmic vision.

First, I will explain the illusory vision. The way we view the world now is grounded in dualism; we view the subject and object separately. Yet in reality neither exists. They are only illusions, like a dream. When we are dreaming, the experience seems real. But when we wake up, there is not even a trace of what we experienced in our dreams. Our lives are also like a great illusory vision. When subject and object are viewed as separate, this is known as dualistic illusory vision. Every ordinary sentient being experiences the world we live in with this dualistic illusory vision.

Second, the karmic vision consists of the different experience each sentient being has based on his or her karma. For example, some beings have more or less suffering, and so on. The actions we perform are like shadows following us wherever we go. There are three kinds of actions: physical, verbal, and mental. There are virtuous, nonvirtuous, and indifferent actions. Nonvirtuous actions are those undertaken out of ignorance, desire, or hatred. There are ten nonvirtuous deeds. Performing an action is like planting a seed. In due course the seed will ripen and produce results. If the root of a tree is poisonous, whatever grows on the tree, such as flowers and leaves, is also poisonous. Similarly, any actions undertaken from desire, hatred, or ignorance will lead to suffering in this life as well as in future lives.
 

 

You posted an interesting article about causality.

 

Everything we see and experience has been created by our own actions?  How come?   If I see the many stars in the clear night sky,  have I created the stars?  Or are they an illusion?

 

Maybe the message is that we see and experience because we exist?  In this case, we were created not by our actions but by those of our parents.

 

Illusory vision:  neither the object nor the subject exists?   Your post is full of objects and subjects in its many phrases. 

A "dualistic illusory vision"?  I have a "monovision",  meaning that one of my eyes is adjusted for distance, the other for close viewing,  to compensate for the reduced accommodation of my eyes.  But even so,  WHAT I SEE IS NOT AN ILLUSION.  I have read plenty of oriental occultism that proposes ideas that our life is just an illusion, a "dream of the Absolute".   If so,  those who propose such ideas are also living an illusion, since they are humans like we are.  But... NO! They claim that they are SPECIAL, having attained an esoteric state of "enlightenment" that makes them different from us.  One is free to believe this, but like many of us,  I don't buy this.  Any idea about "supernatural" is very cheap to sell,  and impossible to prove.

 

Karmic vision:  One can accept that a "karma" exists that is the combination of judgments our spirit makes of our actions since we started our life.  But, again,  any "karma" that transcends our life is something supernatural, and so it should be held as a mere speculation.  I agree with the writer of the article that this karma is strongly influenced by our actions being positive, negative or neutral,  and that we should cultivate positive actions and avoid the negative ones. This will directly reflect in our predisposition to happiness,  which should be the goal of the positive karma.  How much of this transcends our life, is again a speculation.  

 

Some of us are free to speculate that our death is the end of everything,  a transition to a "nirvana" that is the absence of any worry, any thought, total calmness, which must have been at the time before we were born.  Since it is absence of conflict, it does not matter if our end karma was positive or negative, "justice" only has sense while we are alive.

[TT2880]

Hello. 

Keep reading and share.

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

[TT2880]

Past Present & Future thoughts are intangibles.

 

Forget about going beyond time and space; even going beyond praise and criticism seems out of reach. But when we begin to understand, not only intellectually but emotionally, that all compounded things are impermanent, then our grasping lessens. Our conviction that our thoughts and possessions are valuable, important, and permanent begins to soften. If we were to be informed that we have only two days left to live, our actions would change. We would not be preoccupied with putting our shoes in line, ironing our underwear, or stockpiling expensive perfumes. We might still go shopping, but with a new attitude. If we know, even a little bit, that some of our familiar concepts, feelings, and objects exist only as a dream, we develop a much better sense of humor. Recognizing the humor in our situation prevents suffering. We still experience emotions, but they can no longer play tricks on us or pull the wool over our eyes. We can still fall in love, but without fear of being rejected. We will use our best perfume and face cream instead of saving them for a special occasion. Thus every day becomes a special day.

~ Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche
 

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, TT2880 said:

Past Present & Future thoughts are intangibles.

 

 

Yes, all thoughts are intangible.  You posted a good article, free of supernaturals.

 

Impermanence sounds like Buddhism,  but it is a universal concept.  It is so comforting to accept a short term permanence of everything in our lives, but it is an illusion.   Or, rather than illusion, it is a choice of the incorrect word. "Permanent" means lasting forever, and most of us know that nothing is permanent.  We just don't want to be bothered with the idea that everything changes, everything will disappear one day. 

 

But this does not mean that everything around us, including us,  is a dream.  Impermanence is a reality, and everything is REAL,  just impermanent, ha ha.  I think that the idea of impermanence is enough, we don't need to fantasize about dreams.  Our thoughts and feelings are also real, although intangible. 

 

The idea of impermanence comes to us with experience, as we age, it does not need Buddhism.  And it brings acceptance, resignation, and an understanding that fosters humor.  Why take so many temporary things seriously?  

 

[TT2880]

Hello. 

Keep reading and share. 

 

Thank you. 

[TT2880]

Between Happiness and Sufferings, which one do we choose? 

 

I dont like happiness, 
I like suffering: 
If I am happy, the five poisons increase. 
If I suffer, my past bad karma is exhausted. 
I don't value high positions, I like low ones. 
If I am important, my pride and jealousy increase; 
If I am lowly, I relax and my spiritual practice grows. 
The lowest place is the seat of the saints of the past. 

Patrul Rinpoche 

Edited September 30, 2020 by TT2880

[Steve5380]

48 minutes ago, TT2880 said:

Between Happiness and Sufferings, which one do we choose? 

 

I dont like happiness, 
I like suffering: 
If I am happy, the five poisons increase. 
If I suffer, my past bad karma is exhausted. 
I don't value high positions, I like low ones. 
If I am important, my pride and jealousy increase; 
If I am lowly, I relax and my spiritual practice grows. 
The lowest place is the seat of the saints of the past. 

Patrul Rinpoche 

 

I think this person Patrul Rinpoche has still a lot of living to do to learn the right things.

 

I don't know what "the five poisons" are,  but true happiness does not cause "poisons".

Happiness and suffering are not the opposite of each other,  the same as light and darkness are not directly opposites.

Happiness and suffering can coexist in some degree.

Why should suffering erase bad karma?

The experience of suffering can lead to better karma that in turn erases the bad karma.

 

I could not be less important and more apparently lowly, being a retired person,  

 

but with experience and age, pride and jealousy have miraculously disappeared. 

[TT2880]

Hello. 

Keep reading and share. 

 

Thank you. 

[TT2880]

Keeping a joyful mind

 

"Always maintain only a joyful mind" might sound like an impossible aspiration. As one man said to me, "Always is a very long time." Yet as we train in unblocking our hearts, we'll find that every moment contains the free-flowing openness and warmth that characterize unlimited joy. 

This is the path we take in cultivating joy: learning not to armor our basic goodness, learning to appreciate what we have. Most of the time we don't do this. Rather than appreciate where we are, we continually struggle and nurture our dissatisfaction. It's like trying to get the flowers to grow by pouring cement on the garden. 

But as we use the bodhichitta practices to train, we may come to the point where we see the magic of the present moment; we may gradually wake up to the truth that we have always been warriors living in a sacred world. This is the ongoing experience of limitless joy. We won't always experience this, it's true. But year by year it becomes more and more accessible.

 

~ Pema Chodron

[kitsune]

On 9/26/2020 at 8:29 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

You posted an interesting article about causality.

 

Everything we see and experience has been created by our own actions?  How come?   If I see the many stars in the clear night sky,  have I created the stars?  Or are they an illusion?

 

Maybe the message is that we see and experience because we exist?  In this case, we were created not by our actions but by those of our parents.

 

Illusory vision:  neither the object nor the subject exists?   Your post is full of objects and subjects in its many phrases. 

A "dualistic illusory vision"?  I have a "monovision",  meaning that one of my eyes is adjusted for distance, the other for close viewing,  to compensate for the reduced accommodation of my eyes.  But even so,  WHAT I SEE IS NOT AN ILLUSION.  I have read plenty of oriental occultism that proposes ideas that our life is just an illusion, a "dream of the Absolute".   If so,  those who propose such ideas are also living an illusion, since they are humans like we are.  But... NO! They claim that they are SPECIAL, having attained an esoteric state of "enlightenment" that makes them different from us.  One is free to believe this, but like many of us,  I don't buy this.  Any idea about "supernatural" is very cheap to sell,  and impossible to prove.

 

Karmic vision:  One can accept that a "karma" exists that is the combination of judgments our spirit makes of our actions since we started our life.  But, again,  any "karma" that transcends our life is something supernatural, and so it should be held as a mere speculation.  I agree with the writer of the article that this karma is strongly influenced by our actions being positive, negative or neutral,  and that we should cultivate positive actions and avoid the negative ones. This will directly reflect in our predisposition to happiness,  which should be the goal of the positive karma.  How much of this transcends our life, is again a speculation.  

 

Some of us are free to speculate that our death is the end of everything,  a transition to a "nirvana" that is the absence of any worry, any thought, total calmness, which must have been at the time before we were born.  Since it is absence of conflict, it does not matter if our end karma was positive or negative, "justice" only has sense while we are alive.

 

Hi @Steve5380,

 

I have been reading this thread with much interest and delighted to see that there are many people taking a keen interest in Buddhism. 

 

Please allow me to offer some explanation pertaining to the article of His Holiness Sakya Trizin. From your reply it feels like you may have some misunderstanding maybe because of the buddhistic terminology or somehow language barrier through lost in translation (Tibetan to English). Please forgive me if I am not able to give an in-depth explanation because I am just a beginner who is trying to practice only for a few years.

 

Before going into the article, there's a buddhist term which I would like to clarify first because it has utmost importance - 'Emptiness'

 

The most common misunderstanding of Emptiness is that it is a complete void - emptiness does not mean 'nothing at all'. Things exist dependent on causes and conditions and do not have a real and unchangeable identity to itself. For example, a table consist of many parts (legs, bolts, nuts and a top surface etc) one cannot just simply see a top surface and say it is a table. It does not have a real and unchangeable identity because if you take out one part of the table then it does not exist. Thus, they are 'empty', since their existence dependent on causes and conditions, they continue to change with the changes of the causes and conditions (Law of Impermanence) They do not have a permanent form, and therefore they are 'empty'.

 

Now having establish emptiness there are 2 more terminology that is closely associated with it. From my school of teaching it is 'dependent arising' and from other schools, it is 'non-dualism' both which expounded on emptiness. Therefore, with 'non-dualism' then you may understand what His Holiness refers to in 'The way we view the world now is grounded in dualism'.

 

Another point to clarify is that in buddhist context, when Buddha speaks about 'Ignorance' it refers to not understanding emptiness, we take things to be permanent and truly exist on its side. When Buddha speaks about 'Wisdom' it refers to the realisation of the right view of emptiness. It is never about worldly knowledge or intelligence.    

 

***

 

When His Holiness Sakya Trizin mention about 'dualistic illusory vision' and 'karmic vision', in this context the 'vision' is not to be taken as 20/20 sight vision of your eyes, it should be interpreted as, especially in Asian context, it is 'point of view' or 'in the aspect of'. 

 

'dualistic' is our ignorance of not understanding emptiness as explain before. Things do not have permanent form but we take it otherwise, and they are 'empty'. For example, when one is facing a mirror, there will be an image in the mirror. The image is produced by various conditions. It is not a real thing. Although it is not real, it is very clear when we see it. We cannot say we do not see it. We cannot say that it does not exist but it does not have a truly identity on its side. All these are akin to illusion (of believing things the other way). In buddhism, we always refer to this illusory as like a dream. 

 

Therefore, you can be rest assured that there is nothing 'supernatural' about and no true practitioner of pure dharma will proclaim themselves as SPECIAL. :)

 

***

 

When buddhist talks about 'Cause and Effect' it generally refers to Karma. But karma is such a profound topic that I am not apt to give good explanation. To begin with one has to accept the existence of rebirth, it is hard to talk about karma when one don't accept rebirth. Every action (physically, verbally or mentally) brings result, not just this lifetime but countless rebirths. Karma ripens when causes and conditions arise, thus there's effect. Therefore there's no judgments (from other forces) but simply we reap what we sow. Also in Buddhism, there is no 'spirit' or 'soul'.  

 

It is interesting that you have ask the question of: if you seeing the many stars in the clear night sky, is it you who have created it. You may have knowingly or unknowingly give the answer to yourself :) 

 

Let's try to see this through reasoning and logic. One would have easily comprehend that distance is speed x time and the planetary stars are light years from earth. When one looking at stars, many of them we see at night may have already died. Besides, with so many satellites out there the 'star' we see may not even be a star. From the point of Emptiness, it arise dependent on the causes and conditions, much like the example of the mirror I give above. 

 

***

 

I hope I am of some help for you to have more understanding on His Holiness article and may it benefits you. May other beings benefit through the pure dharma and may it remain a long time. 

 

[TT2880]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:30 PM, kitsune said:

 

Hi @Steve5380,

 

I have been reading this thread with much interest and delighted to see that there are many people taking a keen interest in Buddhism. 

 

Please allow me to offer some explanation pertaining to the article of His Holiness Sakya Trizin. From your reply it feels like you may have some misunderstanding maybe because of the buddhistic terminology or somehow language barrier through lost in translation (Tibetan to English). Please forgive me if I am not able to give an in-depth explanation because I am just a beginner who is trying to practice only for a few years.

 

Before going into the article, there's a buddhist term which I would like to clarify first because it has utmost importance - 'Emptiness'

 

The most common misunderstanding of Emptiness is that it is a complete void - emptiness does not mean 'nothing at all'. Things exist dependent on causes and conditions and do not have a real and unchangeable identity to itself. For example, a table consist of many parts (legs, bolts, nuts and a top surface etc) one cannot just simply see a top surface and say it is a table. It does not have a real and unchangeable identity because if you take out one part of the table then it does not exist. Thus, they are 'empty', since their existence dependent on causes and conditions, they continue to change with the changes of the causes and conditions (Law of Impermanence) They do not have a permanent form, and therefore they are 'empty'.

 

Now having establish emptiness there are 2 more terminology that is closely associated with it. From my school of teaching it is 'dependent arising' and from other schools, it is 'non-dualism' both which expounded on emptiness. Therefore, with 'non-dualism' then you may understand what His Holiness refers to in 'The way we view the world now is grounded in dualism'.

 

Another point to clarify is that in buddhist context, when Buddha speaks about 'Ignorance' it refers to not understanding emptiness, we take things to be permanent and truly exist on its side. When Buddha speaks about 'Wisdom' it refers to the realisation of the right view of emptiness. It is never about worldly knowledge or intelligence.    

 

***

 

When His Holiness Sakya Trizin mention about 'dualistic illusory vision' and 'karmic vision', in this context the 'vision' is not to be taken as 20/20 sight vision of your eyes, it should be interpreted as, especially in Asian context, it is 'point of view' or 'in the aspect of'. 

 

'dualistic' is our ignorance of not understanding emptiness as explain before. Things do not have permanent form but we take it otherwise, and they are 'empty'. For example, when one is facing a mirror, there will be an image in the mirror. The image is produced by various conditions. It is not a real thing. Although it is not real, it is very clear when we see it. We cannot say we do not see it. We cannot say that it does not exist but it does not have a truly identity on its side. All these are akin to illusion (of believing things the other way). In buddhism, we always refer to this illusory as like a dream. 

 

Therefore, you can be rest assured that there is nothing 'supernatural' about and no true practitioner of pure dharma will proclaim themselves as SPECIAL.

 

***

 

When buddhist talks about 'Cause and Effect' it generally refers to Karma. But karma is such a profound topic that I am not apt to give good explanation. To begin with one has to accept the existence of rebirth, it is hard to talk about karma when one don't accept rebirth. Every action (physically, verbally or mentally) brings result, not just this lifetime but countless rebirths. Karma ripens when causes and conditions arise, thus there's effect. Therefore there's no judgments (from other forces) but simply we reap what we sow. Also in Buddhism, there is no 'spirit' or 'soul'.  

 

It is interesting that you have ask the question of: if you seeing the many stars in the clear night sky, is it you who have created it. You may have knowingly or unknowingly give the answer to yourself

 

Let's try to see this through reasoning and logic. One would have easily comprehend that distance is speed x time and the planetary stars are light years from earth. When one looking at stars, many of them we see at night may have already died. Besides, with so many satellites out there the 'star' we see may not even be a star. From the point of Emptiness, it arise dependent on the causes and conditions, much like the example of the mirror I give above. 

 

***

 

I hope I am of some help for you to have more understanding on His Holiness article and may it benefits you. May other beings benefit through the pure dharma and may it remain a long time. 

 

Hello.

 

Thank you so much. 

 

 

"Whoever says that the Tathagata has a Dharma to teach slanders the Buddha, because he does not understand my teaching. Subhuti, in teaching the Dharma there is no Dharma to teach. This is called teaching the Dharma". 

~ The Diamond of Perfect Wisdom Sutra

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 10/2/2020 at 8:30 AM, kitsune said:

 

 

When buddhist talks about 'Cause and Effect' it generally refers to Karma. But karma is such a profound topic that I am not apt to give good explanation. To begin with one has to accept the existence of rebirth, it is hard to talk about karma when one don't accept rebirth. Every action (physically, verbally or mentally) brings result, not just this lifetime but countless rebirths. Karma ripens when causes and conditions arise, thus there's effect. Therefore there's no judgments (from other forces) but simply we reap what we sow. Also in Buddhism, there is no 'spirit' or 'soul'.  

 

It is interesting that you have ask the question of: if you seeing the many stars in the clear night sky, is it you who have created it. You may have knowingly or unknowingly give the answer to yourself

 

Let's try to see this through reasoning and logic. One would have easily comprehend that distance is speed x time and the planetary stars are light years from earth. When one looking at stars, many of them we see at night may have already died. Besides, with so many satellites out there the 'star' we see may not even be a star. From the point of Emptiness, it arise dependent on the causes and conditions, much like the example of the mirror I give above. 

 

***

 

I hope I am of some help for you to have more understanding on His Holiness article and may it benefits you. May other beings benefit through the pure dharma and may it remain a long time. 

 

 

You sound like a very intelligent person.  Yet you feel unable to give an explanation of such a profound topic as Buddhist karma.  I am equally unable.  But we surely can feel the intuitive connection with causality, the natural cause vs. effect.  To get from here to karma one has to accept rebirth.  Why "accept"?   Why should we have to accept rebirth more than the existence of the Holy Trinity in Heaven,  God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit?   If rebirth is part of nature, and not supernatural,  should we not have a clear view of it instead of having to trust some dubious testimonials?

 

Gautama Buddha was also a person like we are.  Would he have discovered through meditation that what is hidden to ordinary persons?  There are individuals who make amazing discoveries that are unreachable to the common man.  One of these was Einstein.  You mentioned the baffling situation where we see a star that may not exist anymore.  But according to relativity,  it does not make sense to speculate what is the status of this star NOW.  There is no absolute simultaneity.  If we see the star, the star is there for us.  The theory of relativity is the result of a very motivated person thinking about time-space aware that light appears to have a universal velocity and aware that there may not be an "ether" that fills the empty space propagating the light like the air propagates sound.  Without these experimental facts he would not have concluded what became the special theory of relativity.  This was not the result of his thinking alone, but of experiments + genial reasoning.   But The Buddha didn't have experimental science at his disposition.  All he had was his thinking. 

 

It makes perfect sense that one short life may not bring resolution to what we deserve from the effects that our actions cause.  But here comes the nebulous concept of "deserve".  What is "deserve"?   What if nature does not assign to each living creature a "deserve" that has to be resolved sooner or later?  What if at the end of our life our balance sheet simply ends with us,  without any cosmic repercussion?  And every new life starts with an empty sheet?

 

These are just speculations, no more valid than those of any other person,  and I thank you for reading through them  

.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Steve5380

[Guest Drift Wood]

42 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

And every new life starts with an empty sheet?

 

.

I prefer to live in the present. Not many people wanted to think too much about the future, let alone the after-life. 

 

Religions were created simply for awareness purposes.  Those awareness can be interpreted in thousands of ways.  Who are we to judge who is right or wrong?   

 

I would rather spend my time watering my rose garden, spread some butter over my wholegrain bread while looking out of the window and do bird-watching than to engage with very messy human thoughts.  And, the very thought there were debate and constant argument, simply prove that human do not know what is religion nor practicing what it preaches here.  I see it this way, relgious or not, human simply sucks and you can't change the very core of their nature.

 

No, I ain't going to take credit for what I wrote here either.