Buddhism Discussion

[Steve5380]

19 minutes ago, Guest Drift Wood said:

 

No, I ain't going to take credit for what I wrote here either.

 

 

Oh, but what you wrote makes sense.  We humans suck!

 

Not so much for our evil, but because of our insignificance  (I sincerely apologize).

So what if a person commits crimes against humanity, killing some millions?  Why should nature care?  Nature kills millions of us with natural disasters and... billions with natural death.

[Guest Drift Wood]

47 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Not so much for our evil, but because of our insignificance  (I sincerely apologize).

So what if a person commits crimes against humanity, killing some millions?  Why should nature care?  Nature kills millions of us with natural disasters and... billions with natural death.

Then, let nature take it course. Why care about religion?  I have seen evil done enough of damages and the good ones have suffered miserably.  Instead of questioning where is God, or will Karma raise its head on these people. Why not just stay safe yourself, write a good story book about your life instead of leaving it as an empty sheet?  What comes after this life, who are we to judge and will we even know?    I have already stopped questioning why I am gay in this life, if questioning doesn't help anything at all.   Same applies to religion.   

[TT2880]

Is neither superior nor exclusive

 

“Truth is the same always. Whoever ponders it will get the same answer. Buddha got it. Patanjali got it. Jesus got it. Mohammed got it. The answer is the same, but the method of working it out may vary this way or that.”

 

~ Swami Satchidananda, The Yoga Sutras

Edited October 7, 2020 by TT2880

[konior]

I think it is important to differentiate discussion of buddhism to gain understanding, learning about buddhism, and using buddhism to stir shit.

Buddhism has some key concepts. Karma. Dependent Origination. Compassion. Wisdom. Middle path. Attachments. Reincarnation. Nirvana. Emptiness. These are not mundane concepts, and must not be interpreted using the explanation in the dictionary.

 

Wisdom is about knowing dependent origination, attachments, seeing the world as it really is.

Compassion is about the acts of reducing karmic debts, letting go of attachments.

Both are complementary and necessary to the practice of buddhism. Different schools of buddhism just start of and emphasize different aspects when practising. Ultimately, all aspects will need to be realized in buddhism.

 

Using dictionary explanations, sprinkling with other profound sounding words, then distorting the meaning of the buddhist concepts is disingenuous. This is also called using buddhism to stir shit.

 

This chat should be about discussing buddhism to gain understanding, or learning about buddhism. It is not a forum to stir shit.

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, konior said:

I think it is important to differentiate discussion of buddhism to gain understanding, learning about buddhism, and using buddhism to stir shit.

Buddhism has some key concepts. Karma. Dependent Origination. Compassion. Wisdom. Middle path. Attachments. Reincarnation. Nirvana. Emptiness. These are not mundane concepts, and must not be interpreted using the explanation in the dictionary.

 

Using dictionary explanations, sprinkling with other profound sounding words, then distorting the meaning of the buddhist concepts is disingenuous. This is also called using buddhism to stir shit.

 

This chat should be about discussing buddhism to gain understanding, or learning about buddhism. It is not a forum to stir shit.

 

You may have a problem if you find that other people's ideas that depart from your concepts, your beliefs of Buddhism, are intended to "stir shit".

 

When it comes to spirituality, religiousness,  every person is entitled to have his own opinions, beliefs.  One does not need to be a practitioner of Buddhism to have opinions about it,  the same as you are entitled to your opinions of Christianity even if you are a Buddhist.  The time of religious wars and condemnation of heretics... has passed!

 

If you are a sincere believer, then come out to substantiate your beliefs in a civil way, without calling the ideas of others an act of stirring shit.   Using a common language across nationalities, religious affiliations, race, ethnicity, sexual orientations, etc.  the use of the dictionary and its explanations are a valid way to increase understanding.  If you disagree, you are free to clarify meanings from your Buddhist point of view.  This can be also educative.

[TT2880]

 

 

Hello.

 

How can we achieve this? 

We can start with understanding what is loving-kindness (metta 慈) and practice compassion (Karuna 悲).

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

[fab]

6 hours ago, TT2880 said:

 

 

Hello.

 

How can we achieve this? 

We can start with understanding what is loving-kindness (metta 慈) and practice compassion (Karuna 悲).

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

 

In my understanding,  compassion is using our affection helping other sentient beings out of their sufferings. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by fab

[wilfgene]

34 minutes ago, fab said:

 

In my understanding,  compassion is using our affection helping other sentient beings out oftheir sufferings. 

本來無一物

[kitsune]

The Importance of Rebirth for Understanding Karma

 

Many of us from Asia may not find the concept of rebirth alien, as we may heard about it, learnt about it from our seniors/friends/religion peers since young. But for others, they may need a long time to get used to the idea of past lives and future rebirths.

 

When we talk of rebirth, there are several ways of understanding it. Of course, there’s the incorrect understanding. Then there’s also the presumption that it’s true even if we don’t understand it. We can also become convinced through logic that there must be rebirth.

 

The Buddhist explanation does not include any idea of a soul with a definite identity, or some solid thing that goes from one body to another. What we talk about in Buddhism is basically a continuation of a mental continuum or mind-stream. Depending on our actions, connected to this mental continuum, we are going to manifest with a certain type of body in each subsequent life. Also in Buddhism, there isn’t the idea that the rebirths are getting better and better, and once you get a human form you’ll always have a human form. The Buddhist view is that depending on the actions and their habits associated with that mental continuum, rebirths go up and down – human, animal, ghost, god, and so on. The manifestation depends precisely on one’s own behaviour, as there is nothing external whatsoever dealing out punishments or lessons to learn.

 

Below is an extract of an article from Dr. Alexander Berzin, which I find make good sense for me. Certain occurrence happen in this lifetime which resulted from some causes from past lives, so we have to take ownership for it, and likewise, whatever actions we commit now will affect the results in our future live, this is also taking ownership of it.

 

*** 

 

"Why it is so important to think in terms of rebirth is for gaining a proper understanding of karma. That’s because the results of our actions mostly do not ripen in this lifetime. For example, we might practice really hard and meditate every day, do hundreds of thousands of prostrations and all these sort of things, and then we get cancer and die a slow, painful death. Obviously, we can get very discouraged if we expect that the results of our actions are going to ripen in this lifetime.

 

Then we look at a corrupt official who is cheating everybody and becoming fabulously rich. Such a person might never get caught and live his whole life in extreme wealth and power, so where is karma? It doesn’t have to be a government official, it can be a business person.

 

Now, of course, some of our actions may ripen in this lifetime, especially when they are done with an extremely strong motivation, whether positive or negative, but most of them ripen in future lives. In fact, most of what we experience in this life is not the result of what we have done in this lifetime, but are the result of what we have done in past lives.

 

I need to qualify that, though. There are certain things that we do in this lifetime, like stub our toe on a table in the dark, and then we experience our toe turning black and blue and feel intense pain as a result. We shouldn’t think that Buddhism is denying that this type of physical cause and effect doesn’t work during this lifetime. But, we can work very hard to get a good university education and then not find a well-paying job or end up driving a taxi. It doesn’t follow simple cause and effect, does it, that just because we get a good education that we’re going to get a good job? Whether we get a good job or not is dependent on many other karmic factors from previous lives. So, it is very important for the understanding of karma and cause and effect to think in terms of rebirth. It is not that it is merely helpful; it is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, the whole discussion of behavioural cause and effect does not make sense at all.

 

Without bringing in karma, we are left with a very different view of what happens to us in life. We went to university and then we got a job or maybe we didn’t get a job. Well, what would that have depended on? We might think that it depended on luck or fate, or maybe it depended on God’s will. Buddhism says that there are many problems with each of these proposals. The Buddhist presentation of rebirth and past lives, on the other hand, is a way of explaining what is happening to us now that not only makes sense, but also gives us some way to affect what will happen to us in the future. 

 

We could in fact live thinking that everything that happens is just on the basis of luck, fate or God’s will. There are certainly many societies that think that way. But believing like that doesn’t leave very much room for affecting what happens to us. Will wearing a lucky charm around our necks really change our luck? If everything is in God’s hands, then even if we follow commandments, disaster might still strike us. If that happens, is it satisfactory just to trust in God’s wisdom and accept His will? And if what happens to us is predetermined by fate, there is nothing we can do to change what happens, is there? Buddhism says, on the other hand, that we need to take responsibility ourselves for what happens to us – although the results of our actions might not be visible in this lifetime."

~ Dr. Alexander Berzin

 

***

 

 

[kitsune]

5 hours ago, TT2880 said:

 

 

Hello.

 

How can we achieve this? 

We can start with understanding what is loving-kindness (metta 慈) and practice compassion (Karuna 悲).

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Actually I may have a different way of interpreting it

 

When we talk and recite the 4 immeasurables, Equanimity is the last verse, but my dear Geshe La did explain to me that when one is practicing the 4 immeasurables, Equanimity should be the first, this is because with the certainty of equanimity, then when one practice loving-kindness and compassion will not have the danger of having attachment for those we love and generating distance for those we may have enmity or displeasure for.

 

 

 

 

[TT2880]

On 10/9/2020 at 4:36 PM, kitsune said:

Hello,

 

Actually I may have a different way of interpreting it

 

When we talk and recite the 4 immeasurables, Equanimity is the last verse, but my dear Geshe La did explain to me that when one is practicing the 4 immeasurables, Equanimity should be the first, this is because with the certainty of equanimity, then when one practice loving-kindness and compassion will not have the danger of having attachment for those we love and generating distance for those we may have enmity or displeasure for.

 

 

 

 

Hello. 

 

Thank you. For reminding me of equanimity. Is heartening. I will spend time to observe and understand this carefully.

 

I hv this to add on. Be it first, second, third or last in sequence, these are form. There might be a chance that we might be too preoccupied in deciding what to do first which in the process misses out the way it ought to be. Of course, we as beginners need to constantly remind and practice. When we do missed the opportunity, that is a lesson to be learnt. 

 

Attachment is aversion, aversion is attachment. Look at them both deeply, these two are not the same in form but are inherently the same in nature. 

 

Once more thank you for your words. 

 

On 10/9/2020 at 1:07 PM, fab said:

 

In my understanding,  compassion is using our affection helping other sentient beings out of their sufferings. 

Hello.

 

Thank you. 

 

I once heard this teaching on compassion. 

I am no expert and in my own simple words, according to the teacher that taught this, he said there are three compassion, as we being obsessed with hierarchy, he had expressed it in three levels, from very basic level to the level of Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. This notion of Compassion forcuses uses the object of Compassion to define the stages. 

 

Level 1 Compassion on sentient being. I see your definition fits into this. Pardon me if you think otherwise. 

 

Level 2 Compassion on Phenomena. 

 

Level 3 Compassion on No Object. 

 

If you are interested on this, here is the link. 

 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by TT2880
Correction and added video link

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, kitsune said:

The Importance of Rebirth for Understanding Karma

 

When we talk of rebirth, there are several ways of understanding it. Of course, there’s the incorrect understanding. Then there’s also the presumption that it’s true even if we don’t understand it. We can also become convinced through logic that there must be rebirth.

 

The Buddhist explanation does not include any idea of a soul with a definite identity, or some solid thing that goes from one body to another. What we talk about in Buddhism is basically a continuation of a mental continuum or mind-stream. Depending on our actions, connected to this mental continuum, we are going to manifest with a certain type of body in each subsequent life. Also in Buddhism, there isn’t the idea that the rebirths are getting better and better, and once you get a human form you’ll always have a human form. The Buddhist view is that depending on the actions and their habits associated with that mental continuum, rebirths go up and down – human, animal, ghost, god, and so on. The manifestation depends precisely on one’s own behaviour, as there is nothing external whatsoever dealing out punishments or lessons to learn.

 

 

 

I read here some new speculations, and I find them fascinating.  It seems that what gets reborn is "a continuation of a mental continuum".   So it is not a soul with a definite identity?   What then identifies this mental continuum?  Can one differentiate if it is a new mental continuum or a recycled one?    There are always new people in the world, so there must be a need for new mental continuum.  Or if this extends to all living creatures, all we living creatures have increased in number since the first ones on earth.  

 

All these ideas have the characteristics of a SUPERNATURAL.  Science has not discovered any mental continuum of any species that transfers from a dead body to a newborn.  Being "mental" it does not need to be anything physical but just information, but it still needs a mechanism of being transferred.  Radio frequencies?  Wi Fi?  Bluetooth?  Gravitational waves?   Regardless of what it is,  we have no knowledge of it.   And if we have no knowledge of it, how can it be more than a speculation?  

 

And how our actions influence this mental continuum in a way that defines where the continuum will go next,  to a human, animal, ghost, god, etc?   This must be a super mysterious, super sophisticated mechanism that maybe runs on multiple dimensions of an alternate universe, no?   Are you sure that Gautama Buddha came up with these ideas,  or were his disciples who took the basic postulates of karma and reincarnation and built a huge collection of ideas around them?

.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

On 10/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, fab said:

 

In my understanding,  compassion is using our affection helping other sentient beings out of their sufferings. 

 

Compassion is not really the act, but the feeling that leads to the action.

Affection is a common way to inspire compassion, but not essential.

With equanimity, we should feel empathy also for beings that don't inspire affection.

For example, we can learn to feel compassion for an enemy, an attacker.

This is a virtue taught by the martial art Aikido, which makes it special:

"Take control of a confrontation while inflicting minimum damage to the opponent".

.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Steve5380

[Why?]

Religion is too complicated.  Sorry folks, it is easier for me to think of what to prepare for meal tomorrow than anything else.  Happily and peacefully preparing a meal, without distraction, is also an art of practicing Buddhism. 

[Steve5380]

50 minutes ago, Why? said:

Religion is too complicated.  Sorry folks, it is easier for me to think of what to prepare for meal tomorrow than anything else.  Happily and peacefully preparing a meal, without distraction, is also an art of practicing Buddhism. 

 

Yes, the complication of religions can be infinite, the sky is the limit, like the imagination.  

What is best for us is to be able to not take religions seriously.  This takes away all the power of their complications.

Aren't some dramas of Shakespeare complicated?  Some stories in science fiction movies complicated? 

Complications are not absolute, but relative to individuals and circumstances.

We can arrange our lives so that we avoid being bothered by complications.

Imagine the complications of your computer software and hardware.  But... who cares?  As long as you can buy it...

 

What is important is that you enjoy planning your meal, its peaceful preparation and tasty consumption.  

[TT2880]

A spiritually enlightened person is likely to be more tolerant than others.

 

A tolerant person does not like to interfere with another’s freedom of thought, which is the birthright of every individual.

Tolerant people are not stubborn or unreasonable with their views… never will they force their views on others.

 

Patience is mentioned as one of the exemplary characteristics of a religious person, along with sincerity, swiftness in understanding and tenderness.

 

One who has these four qualities is said to be worthy of respect.

 

- Ven. K Sri Dhammananda, excerpted from Awaken Issue 16

[TT2880]

佛教的本來面目

 

早年方東美先生把佛法介紹給我，他就說「學佛是人生最高的享受」，你要不認真的學，這最高的享受你享受不到。那我們享受是真學佛了，而且出家了，真走釋迦牟尼佛這條路子。我們遇到是什麼？遇到很多人毀謗，很多人批評。批評全是負面的，說我們消極、說我們迷信，好好一個年輕人怎麼會變成這個樣子？可是我們自己快樂，真得快樂，這快樂是他們無法想像的。

我們沒有被這些人動搖，還是我行我素，我們對他們恭敬，我們沒有惡意相對。二十年之後、三十年之後，大家年歲老了，退休了，他們年老了，退休了，做和尚沒有退休的。世間人常講，人老了就不值錢，可是和尚是愈老愈值錢，現在遇到，哎呀！你走對了。我走對了，當時你為什麼不跟我走？現在後悔來不及了。

 

我學佛出家走這個路子，讚歎的人只有一個，方東美先生。我出了家去見他，你真幹！我說是，老師說人生最高的享受，我怎麼不肯幹？你走對了、走對了。只有他老人家一個。

 

為什麼？對佛法不認識，對佛法誤會了、錯解了，這是很大的障礙。我們有責任把佛教的本來面目展示給大家看，佛教是教育，佛教真的不是宗教。因為宗教裡頭，頭一個條件要有一個創造世界的神、造物主，佛教裡頭沒有。

 

佛教裡頭承認宇宙之間有天神、有鬼神、有眾生，但是神在佛法裡頭是眾生，是一類的眾生，跟我們是平等的，沒有什麼高下。佛教我們要尊敬。當然，既然他是眾生，他有佛性，他本來也是佛，現在他也迷惑當眾生了。我們同樣的迷惑，但是我們做了不同類的眾生，可是要是究其根本，那都是佛，本來都是佛。所以我們對他要尊敬、要禮敬；他做的一些好事，我們要讚歎，他做的不好的事情，我們不要放在心上，他教導我們處事之道。我們真的明白了，這全是性德，我們不是迷信，不是盲目跟著別人走，不是的。佛教我們開智慧，佛教我們認識宇宙之間萬事萬法的真相、實相，這真快樂，真的是法喜充滿。

 

~ 淨空法師

節錄自淨土大經科註　　（第六十二集）

[Steve5380]

23 hours ago, TT2880 said:

Hello. 

 

If you are interested on this, here is the link. 

 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

Thank you, I watched the whole video (I am a patient guy)

 

I really like your guru.  He has a sense of humor, and he is wise.  It is comical to see the effort he seems to make to express his ideas,  like they have to come out like babies from a womb.  But what he says about the three levels of compassion makes sense.  Thanks to being an older man, I understood him well.  At times he sounds like a free thinker, not a professional Buddhist, and I like this.  And his idea of compassion is not exclusive of Buddhism, but Christianity has it too.  The teaching of Jesus to "offer the other cheek",  his pardon of the prostitute, his promise to the thief who was crucified besides him.  Jesus must have had the highest level of compassion.

[TT2880]

Hello. 

Keep reading + watching and share.

 

Thank you. 

 

[kitsune]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:02 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

I read here some new speculations, and I find them fascinating.  It seems that what gets reborn is "a continuation of a mental continuum".   So it is not a soul with a definite identity?   What then identifies this mental continuum?  Can one differentiate if it is a new mental continuum or a recycled one?    There are always new people in the world, so there must be a need for new mental continuum.  Or if this extends to all living creatures, all we living creatures have increased in number since the first ones on earth.  

 

All these ideas have the characteristics of a SUPERNATURAL.  Science has not discovered any mental continuum of any species that transfers from a dead body to a newborn.  Being "mental" it does not need to be anything physical but just information, but it still needs a mechanism of being transferred.  Radio frequencies?  Wi Fi?  Bluetooth?  Gravitational waves?   Regardless of what it is,  we have no knowledge of it.   And if we have no knowledge of it, how can it be more than a speculation?  

 

And how our actions influence this mental continuum in a way that defines where the continuum will go next,  to a human, animal, ghost, god, etc?   This must be a super mysterious, super sophisticated mechanism that maybe runs on multiple dimensions of an alternate universe, no?   Are you sure that Gautama Buddha came up with these ideas,  or were his disciples who took the basic postulates of karma and reincarnation and built a huge collection of ideas around them?

.

 

 

 

Hi @Steve5380

Thanks for your reply as it gives me more clarity on your stance and knowledge of various topics related to Buddhism.

 

Before I carry on, I would just want to let you know that as in any form of discussion there's no absolute right or wrong and I fully understand this. What makes a discussion fruitful I think would be the beauty of exchanging of reasonings, viewpoints, giving examples, and logic explanations of topics/concepts of any kind.  

 

•••

 

You did mention or suggest that there's no scientific facts, experiments or valid examination of topics like rebirth. This is true and I accept it totally. It is equally true that there's no scientific facts, experiments or valid examination to denounce rebirth totally. And I think it is equally true and reasonable to respect these 2 truths on other topics of buddhism as well. So what remain would be valid reasonings and logic explanations to reach recognition. 

 

Another point you mention about Science has not discover mental continuum/mind stream. Perhaps this assumption is very much from Western benchmark,  one will agree that the western scientific field of medicine, physics, aerospace, technology and so forth is on the forefront. But the study of mind, the exploration of such topics can you really make claims that western is the pioneer? On the other hand, the Asian societies (and I mean not just Buddhism) has spent thousand and thousand of years of such subject matter. 

 

In 1890 William James introduced the metaphor of the "stream of consciousness" into western psychology: "Consciousness... is nothing jointed; it flows. A 'river' or 'stream' are the metaphors by which it is most naturally describe. In talking of it hereafter, let us call it the stream of thoughts, of consciousness, or of subjective life."

 

Over a thousand years before, the same image figured prominently in the Buddhist philosophical tradition known as the Abhidharma. There the Buddha is portrayed as saying:"The river never stops: there is no moment, no minute, no hour when the river stops: In the same way, the flux of thought"  ~(quoted in Louis de la Vallée Poussin, "Notes sur le moment ou ksnana des bouddhistes").

 

Let's just say we have more than thousands of years head start.

 

***

 

So what is your knowledge or understanding of the buddhist term "Mind continuum/mind stream"? Your speculative and assuming questions seem to indicate that you are very lost about such terminology, then how do you conclude it is SUPERNATURAL? Maybe I am wrong, to reach such conclusion, you would have learnt about it, analysed about it, examined about it, and thus reaching certainty about it. Then would you mind share with all of us here what is your valid reasonings and logic explanations that "mind continuum/mind stream" is nothing but SUPERNATURAL? Is it that the understanding of the nature of mind is fallible, or contrive. 

 

Now to your next question: "And how our actions influence this mental continuum in a way that defines where the continuum will go next, to a human, animal, ghost, god, etc?" If you have good understanding of causality, then when you pinpoint 'action/cause' how can you ignore 'arising condition/effect'? 

 

Let me give you an example: if you are on a bicycle and if the front wheel is alike to 'ACTION/CAUSE' and if the back wheel alike to 'ARISING CONDITION/EFFECT' is missing then in this case will the bicycle be able to move? Now then, when both wheels are present then the bicycle is free to move! 

 

Ok back to the front wheel which we see it alike to 'ACTION/CAUSE', if you swing to the right it takes you to the right, and if you swing it to the left then it will take you to the left, this is like good action and bad action, leading you to different course of path. And now when you peddle which wheel propels you forward? it is the back wheel (ARISING CONDITION/EFFECT) isn't it.

 

Now again, you are on the bicycle with both wheels on, the environment and surrounding is unfamiliar, you don't know which direction and you don't know what lies ahead, it is very dark. As you peddling on and at this moment does your mind stop? Or does your consciousness continues on and on and on? Or it does not exist totally? Will your mind/consciousness continue to figure out where to go, how to tread forward.

 

***

 

Now move on to a more serious question you have: "Are you sure that Gautama Buddha came up with these ideas, or were his disciples who took the basic postulates of karma and reincarnation and built a huge collection of ideas around them?"

 

I would highly recommend you to pick up any texts, any commentaries, or any teachings written by the disciples of Buddha Shakyamuni. Just to name a few great Indian pandits: Master Nagajuna, Chandrakirti, Asanga, Vasubandhu, Sangharakshita, Shantideva, Atisha etc... If these are too remote for you maybe the written books of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. If you find any of these teachings, commentaries or discourses from any one of them to be contradicting to or different from the spoken words of the Buddha, please do share it over here and we can have fruitful discussion. This would very much clear your doubts. 

 

***

 

One more point that I would want to bring up. After 8 pages of Buddhism discussion on this thread, I am sure you would have, or rather, you must be very sure to come across this phrase - "BODY, SPEECH AND MIND". It is so fundamental and core to Buddhism and even non-buddhist would be familiar with it. Lord Buddha has not just once, or twice, but on many, many occasions throughout his life mention about "body, speech and mind". One would be very silly to think that Lord Buddha will not teach about what is MIND. Not just teach, but to explain, examine, give metaphors, cross-examine, analyse everything about MIND. You would not be able to imagine the great amount of work, collections from past buddhist scholars, philosophers on this subject matters. But of course it is not just exclusively on the subject of MIND, but all dharma included. Just google the word 'Abhidharma' and you will know what it is all about, and why all so important to Buddhism, from the Pali language collection, to Theravada tradition, to Mahayana tradition. 

 

***
 

 

[wanton_mee]

 

[Ironrod]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:57 PM, konior said:

This chat should be about discussing buddhism to gain understanding, or learning about buddhism. It is not a forum to stir shit.

 

A lot of ppl talk for the sake of talking and take no effort to understand through practice. That's why I stop responding to this "discussion" thread. But since I concurr with Bro Konior, I just want to say - you can bring the cow to the river but it's really up to them if they want to drink. 

 

But seeing all the Bro's here talking effort to reply some ppl pains me.

 

The great difference between Buddhist and other religion is that we are not keen in converting anybody becos in the end your suffering is your own. Even if one vow and take up Bodhicitta, we should still some wisdom when trying to "save" them.

[Steve5380]

10 minutes ago, Ironrod said:

 

A lot of ppl talk for the sake of talking and take no effort to understand through practice. That's why I stop responding to this "discussion" thread. But since I concurr with Bro Konior, I just want to say - you can bring the cow to the river but it's really up to them if they want to drink. 

 

But seeing all the Bro's here talking effort to reply some ppl pains me.

 

The great difference between Buddhist and other religion is that we are not keen in converting anybody becos in the end your suffering is your own. Even if one vow and take up Bodhicitta, we should still some wisdom when trying to "save" them.

 

If you concur with your bro  Koinor you have the same problem he has.  Isn't your criticism of people whose ideas have some differences with Buddhism a form of... "stir shit"?  Maybe your decision to stop posting here is a good one.

 

What makes you think that your attitude of accepting all of Buddhism is superior to that of those who are evaluating different religious philosophies with an open mind?   Isn't this arrogance?

 

Why is the lack of proselytizing a GREAT difference between Buddhism and other religions?  Here Buddhism does not have an exclusivity,  because Judaism also does not proselytize.  And... why is not proselytize a virtue?   In Judaism, it seems that the Jews don't want to attract outsiders to their close knit clan of superior "chosen by God".

 

In Christianity,  proselytizing comes from COMPASSION,  yes, the "level 1" compassion for fellow human sentient beings.  It can easily degenerate in an attempt to rule over an increasing population of believers,  but the origin of this proselytizing comes from Jesus directing his apostles to spread His Word to all the People.

 

And why would The Buddha take the trouble to teach Buddhism to his disciples, if he had thought like you that "your suffering is your own"???  You must be wrong on this.

[TT2880]

📚This week we will learn about Emptiness.

❤️It is one of the most difficult topics in Buddhism.
❤️If you realized emptiness, you realized the true state of existence.
❤️The wisdom realizing emptiness takes us beyond the lower realms, beyond samsara, beyond all obscurations, to the peerless happiness of full enlightenment, the state of cessation of all mistakes and perfection of all qualities.
❤️In Tibetan Buddhism, emptiness is often symbolized by and compared to the open sky which is associated with openness and freedom.

 

Part 1 of 6:

What is Emptiness

 

◽️Emptiness is the central insight of #Buddhism, and what makes it unique among religions. According to Buddhism, neither we, nor other beings, nor any phenomenon in the universe, has a permanent, separate, and independent core, soul, or identity. Another way to look at it is interdependence: all relative phenomena are purely the product of external causes.

▫️The word “emptiness” is best known for its central place in the Heart #Sutra of the #Mahayana tradition: “Form is emptiness; emptiness is form,” a phrase that is repeated also for the other four aggregates that construct our idea of self—feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness. The sutra goes on to say that “emptiness is the nature of all things,” thus expanding the psychological insight that a person is empty of self to the comprehensive metaphysical insight that all phenomena are empty of self-nature.

▫️The 2nd-century philosopher Nagarjuna explains this with greater precision in his treatises by drawing out the implications of the teaching on impermanence and dependent origination. All things are in the perpetual process of arising and passing away, ever “becoming” and thus never actually “being.” Conditioned by multiple interdependent causes, all things are “empty” of any sort of independent or intrinsic nature and thus defy conceptualization.

▫️To understand #emptiness we should start with understanding impermanence. 

▫️Self, action, object; friend, enemy, stranger; all the sense objects—desirable, undesirable, indifferent—all these are transitory in nature, changing within each second due to causes and conditions. These things can cease at any time. This also applies to our own body, our possessions, our friends and relatives.

▫️Therefore, there is no reason to have the dissatisfied minds of desire, anger and ignorance, or the wrong conception that these things are permanent, that they do not change but last forever. There is no benefit in believing this, since it is not the nature of these things. It brings only problems, confusion. All these things change and cease. When that happens, there is a problem in the mind, a problem in the life. #emptinessbuddhaland

 

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

Edited October 12, 2020 by TT2880

[TT2880]

Part 2 of 6:

Empty of What

🤍Emptiness, or selflessness, can only be understood if we first identify that of which phenomena are empty. Without understanding what is negated, you cannot understand its absence, emptiness.

🤍You might think that emptiness means nothingness, but it does not. All the objects, everything is empty of inherent existence.

🤍A consciousness that conceives of inherent existence does not have a valid foundation. A wise consciousness, grounded in reality, understands that living beings and other phenomena—minds, bodies, buildings, and so forth—do not inherently exist. This is the wisdom of emptiness. Understanding reality exactly opposite to the misconception of inherent existence, #wisdom gradually overcomes ignorance.

🤍Do Objects Exist?

🤍Phenomena certainly do exist not in the way we think they do; the question is how? They do not exist in their own right, but only have an existence dependent upon many factors, including a consciousness that conceptualizes them.

🤍Once they exist but do not exist on their own, they necessarily exist in dependence. However, when phenomena appear to us, they do not at all appear as if they exist this way. Rather, they seem to be established in their own right, from the object’s side, without depending upon a conceptualizing consciousness.

🤍Buddha said many times that because all phenomena are dependently arisen, they are relative—their existence depends on other causes and conditions and depends on their own parts. A wooden table, for instance, does not exist independently; rather, it depends on a great many causes such as a tree, the carpenter who makes it, and so forth; it also depends upon its own parts. If a wooden table or any phenomenon really were not dependent—if it were established in its own right—then when you analyze it, its existence in its own right should become more obvious, but it does not.

🤍Because the true nature of objects is #emptiness, they are therefore incapable of performing functions such as causing pleasure or pain, or helping or harming, is the worst sort of misunderstanding, a nihilistic view.

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

[kitsune]

A very beautifully produced video on the life of Buddha. 

 

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, kitsune said:

A very beautifully produced video on the life of Buddha. 

 

 

A very beautiful video indeed.   A nice view into the circumstances of the Buddha's life.

 

Much of his philosophy reflects the circumstances of his life.  The contrast between unlimited richness and unlimited poverty and misery.  This contrast amplifies the questioning about relevance, impermanence in our world.

 

Not everyone experiences circumstances like that.   In our normal life we don't encounter them.  Yes, there is poverty, there are bums, but they live better than in the days of the Buddha.  There are social programs today.

 

Does it make sense for us today to see everything as gloomy?  and try to escape all the worldly?  Also we cannot all be ascetics, otherwise who will support our society? 

 

 

 

On 10/12/2020 at 3:36 AM, TT2880 said:

📚This week we will learn about Emptiness.

❤️It is one of the most difficult topics in Buddhism.
❤️If you realized emptiness, you realized the true state of existence.
❤️The wisdom realizing emptiness takes us beyond the lower realms, beyond samsara, beyond all obscurations, to the peerless happiness of full enlightenment, the state of cessation of all mistakes and perfection of all qualities.
❤️In Tibetan Buddhism, emptiness is often symbolized by and compared to the open sky which is associated with openness and freedom.

 

Part 1 of 6:

What is Emptiness

 

◽️Emptiness is the central insight of #Buddhism, and what makes it unique among religions. According to Buddhism, neither we, nor other beings, nor any phenomenon in the universe, has a permanent, separate, and independent core, soul, or identity. Another way to look at it is interdependence: all relative phenomena are purely the product of external causes.

 

13 hours ago, TT2880 said:

Part 2 of 6:

Empty of What

🤍Emptiness, or selflessness, can only be understood if we first identify that of which phenomena are empty. Without understanding what is negated, you cannot understand its absence, emptiness.

🤍You might think that emptiness means nothingness, but it does not. All the objects, everything is empty of inherent existence.

🤍A consciousness that conceives of inherent existence does not have a valid foundation. A wise consciousness, grounded in reality, understands that living beings and other phenomena—minds, bodies, buildings, and so forth—do not inherently exist. This is the wisdom of emptiness. Understanding reality exactly opposite to the misconception of inherent existence, #wisdom gradually overcomes ignorance.

🤍Do Objects Exist?

-----

🤍Because the true nature of objects is #emptiness, they are therefore incapable of performing functions such as causing pleasure or pain, or helping or harming, is the worst sort of misunderstanding, a nihilistic view.

 

 

We have a choice.  We can welcome the world with all its objects,  perceived by our senses that are given to us by our nature.   Or we can see the world as full of emptiness, impermanence, speculating that the material world only exists because of our senses. 

 

For the time being, in this world, we exist because we are alive.  And we are alive thanks to our senses. Thanks to our recognition that objects are REAL, that our body is REAL,  that the feelings of its nervous and emotional centers are REAL.  

 

Physicists today are dealing with the nature of matter.  In an atomic and subatomic scale, matter is mostly empty space. This is why it can be traversed by a beam of protons.  And ideas of an "antimatter" sound always stronger.  But they don't deal with something like "inherent existence", and they don't recognize any property of "emptiness" in normal objects.  

 

The ideas of "emptiness", "impermanence" are good stimuli for us to prevent us from becoming materialistic. But we should take them with MODERATION.   Maybe "emptiness" is simply a convenient idealization,  while "impermanence" is a universal fact that is nothing new.  We have reasons to believe that everything proceeds from a "big bang", and the effect of this bang may reverse at some time, and everything may collapse back to a point,  leaving nothing behind. 

 

In the meantime we should enjoy the reality of life,  applying the MORAL principles of the Big Sages,  but maybe leaving some speculations about "realities" reserved for special occasions.

.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Steve5380

[FattChoy]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

A very beautiful video indeed.   A nice view into the circumstances of the Buddha's life.

 

Much of his philosophy reflects the circumstances of his life.  The contrast between unlimited richness and unlimited poverty and misery.  This contrast amplifies the questioning about relevance, impermanence in our world.

 

Not everyone experiences circumstances like that.   In our normal life we don't encounter them.  Yes, there is poverty, there are bums, but they live better than in the days of the Buddha.  There are social programs today.

 

Does it make sense for us today to see everything as gloomy?  and try to escape all the worldly?  Also we cannot all be ascetics, otherwise who will support our society? 

As I recall reading somewhere, Buddha paved the way to Nirvana through his journey, sacrifices and meditation.   These frees the modern world folks from having to live like an ascetic.  Buddhists just have to understand and practice the principles that he preach.

Edited October 13, 2020 by FattChoy

[TT2880]

Part 3 of 6

Emptiness and “I”

🤍Do I exist? 

🤍Spiritual practice inevitably brings us face to face with the profound mystery of our own identity. We have taken birth in a human body. What is this force that gives us life, that brings us and the world into form? The world’s great spiritual teachings tell us over and over we are not who we think we are. But does that mean there is no self or a search for true self.

🤍“There is no self” is the granddaddy of fake Buddhist quotes. It has survived so long because of its superficial resemblance to the teaching on anatta, or not-self, which was one of the Buddha’s tools for putting an end to clinging. Even though he neither affirmed nor denied the existence of a self, he did talk of the process by which the mind creates many senses of self—what he called “I-making” and “my-making”—as it pursues its desires.

🤍To understand selflessness, you need to understand that everything that exists is contained in two groups called the two truths: conventional and ultimate. The phenomena that we see and observe around us can go from good to bad, or bad to good, depending on various causes and conditions.

🤍Many phenomena cannot be said to be inherently good or bad; they are better or worse, tall or short, beautiful or ugly, only by comparison, not by way of their own nature. Their value is relative. From this you can see that there is a discrepancy between the way things appear and how they actually are. For instance, something may—in terms of how it appears—look good, but, due to its inner nature being different, it can turn bad once it is affected by conditions. Food that looks so good in a restaurant may not sit so well in your stomach. This is a clear sign of a discrepancy between appearance and reality.

🤍These phenomena themselves are called conventional truths: they are known by consciousness that goes no further than appearances. But the same objects have an inner mode of being, called an ultimate truth, that allows for the changes brought about by conditions.

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

[TT2880]

Part 4 of 6

 

🤍The Buddha says that everything is "empty". Some think that this is empty, that is empty, or everything is empty. Since everything is empty, and meaningless, one does not need to do either evil or good. In fact, "emptiness" in Buddhism is the most profound philosophy.

🤍The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are the people who have realised the truth of emptiness. "Emptiness" does not mean nothing at all, in contrast, it includes everything. The world is world, life is life, suffering is suffering, happiness is happiness, everything does exist.

🤍In Buddhism, there is clear teaching as to what is right or wrong, good or evil, or cause and effect. One should turn away from the wrong one and redirect to the right one, refrain from evil and do more good. Those who do good will gain good effect, and if one practices one may attain Buddhahood. This is the cause and effect. If we say that everything is empty, then why are we practising the teaching of the Buddha? If there exist the karma, good and evil, worldly people and saint, then, why does the #Buddha say that everything is empty? What is the meaning of emptiness?

🤍Things exist due to causes and conditions and do not have a real and unchangeable identity of itself. Thus, they are "empty". The right and wrong, good and evil, and the life are not permanent and unchangeable. They exist due to causes and conditions. Since their existence is dependent on causes and conditions, they continue to change with the changes of the causes and conditions. They do not have a permanent form, and therefore they are "empty".

🤍For example, when one is facing a mirror, there will be an image in the mirror. The image is produced by various conditions. It is not a real thing. Although it is not real, it is very clear when we see it. We cannot say that it does not exist. The concept of "emptiness" relies on this truth that things arise due to causes and conditions. Thus, when the #Buddha says that everything is empty, he is implying that everything arises due to causes and conditions. A practising #Buddhist must realise and experience #emptiness and understand the existence of the Law of cause and effect, good and evil.

 

Emptiness is a central teaching of all 
Buddhism, but its true meaning is often 
misunderstood. The Heart Sutra says, "all 
phenomena in their own-being are empty." it doesn't say "all phenomena are empty." This distinction is vital. 

Finally, since emptiness seems so difficult 
to understand, why did the Buddha teach it at all? it is because of his profound insight into why we suffer. Ultimately we suffer because we grasp after things thinking they are fixed, substantial, real and capable of being possessed by ego. 

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

[Why?]

I am agnostic.  It is safer that way because I still kill mosquito and ants, getting in the way and I am not 100% vegetarians and I constantly habour "dirty thoughts", enjoy rough sex with men and at times get angry and used foul languages on others.    Every religion regard me as a "bad boy", and I turn agnostic.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Why?

[wilfgene]

10 hours ago, Why? said:

I am agnostic.  It is safer that way because I still kill mosquito and ants, getting in the way and I am not 100% vegetarians and I constantly habour "dirty thoughts", enjoy rough sex with men and at times get angry and used foul languages on others.    Every religion regard me as a "bad boy", and I turn agnostic.

 

 

色即是空空是色

卿須憐我我憐卿

[Steve5380]

12 hours ago, Why? said:

I am agnostic.  It is safer that way because I still kill mosquito and ants, getting in the way and I am not 100% vegetarians and I constantly habour "dirty thoughts", enjoy rough sex with men and at times get angry and used foul languages on others.    Every religion regard me as a "bad boy", and I turn agnostic.

 

 

Hello fellow agnostic.  I am one too since childhood.  Yes, being an agnostic saves you from all the restrictions imposed by religious doctrines.  But there is a better reason to be one: 

 

Agnosticism frees our mind from constant doubts about religious doctrines being true or false. And it frees our mind to do the righteous acts that are dictated by the moral values we accept as valid, which not always coincide with religious doctrines.  And we recognize that all of religion comes to us through hearsay by humans like us,  not Gods.  Yes, they may claim that they tell us what Gods told them, and show us writings that are copies of copies of copies of copies... of ancient scriptures from questionable sources, but... why should we trust them?  Any God that deserves this name,  wouldn't He have the courtesy to tell us directly,  instead of through money and power hungry intermediates?  This would be no hardship for a real God.  

[Steve5380]

On 10/11/2020 at 4:01 AM, kitsune said:

 

Hi @Steve5380

Thanks for your reply as it gives me more clarity on your stance and knowledge of various topics related to Buddhism.

 

Before I carry on, I would just want to let you know that as in any form of discussion there's no absolute right or wrong and I fully understand this. What makes a discussion fruitful I think would be the beauty of exchanging of reasonings, viewpoints, giving examples, and logic explanations of topics/concepts of any kind.  

 

•••

 

You did mention or suggest that there's no scientific facts, experiments or valid examination of topics like rebirth. This is true and I accept it totally. It is equally true that there's no scientific facts, experiments or valid examination to denounce rebirth totally. And I think it is equally true and reasonable to respect these 2 truths on other topics of buddhism as well. So what remain would be valid reasonings and logic explanations to reach recognition. 

 

Another point you mention about Science has not discover mental continuum/mind stream. Perhaps this assumption is very much from Western benchmark,  one will agree that the western scientific field of medicine, physics, aerospace, technology and so forth is on the forefront. But the study of mind, the exploration of such topics can you really make claims that western is the pioneer? On the other hand, the Asian societies (and I mean not just Buddhism) has spent thousand and thousand of years of such subject matter. 

 

Let's just say we have more than thousands of years head start.

 

 

I have wanted to answer your post for some time.  I am glad that we agree on many important issues, and I recognize that you Asians have thousands of years of head start.    My native Christian (Catholic) religion, derived from Judaism, has missed so much of the spirituality that makes Buddhism far superior, in my humble opinion.  Fortunately, today's society is less willing to put up with fairy tales and fantasies, increasingly questioning the material in the Bible.  While Buddhism welcomes skepticism of its practitioners,  this skepticism is very harmful to the Abrahamic religions.

 

On 10/11/2020 at 4:01 AM, kitsune said:

 

 

***

 

So what is your knowledge or understanding of the buddhist term "Mind continuum/mind stream"? Your speculative and assuming questions seem to indicate that you are very lost about such terminology, then how do you conclude it is SUPERNATURAL? Maybe I am wrong, to reach such conclusion, you would have learnt about it, analysed about it, examined about it, and thus reaching certainty about it. Then would you mind share with all of us here what is your valid reasonings and logic explanations that "mind continuum/mind stream" is nothing but SUPERNATURAL? Is it that the understanding of the nature of mind is fallible, or contrive. 

 

Now to your next question: "And how our actions influence this mental continuum in a way that defines where the continuum will go next, to a human, animal, ghost, god, etc?" If you have good understanding of causality, then when you pinpoint 'action/cause' how can you ignore 'arising condition/effect'? 

 

 

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I don't understand the concept of "mind continuum/mind stream".  It is evident, and experienced during meditation when we feel the stream and may even slow it down.  Here it helps me to conceptualize the concept by comparing my person to a computer (I won't go into this here out of topic).  Our brain has many internal clocks, feedback loops. While conscious we have a continuous sequence of thoughts that does not stop. While asleep, other sequences go on in our brain. All this takes place inside our body.

 

What I judge as supernatural is the idea that this mind continuum can pass from one body to another.  When a baby is born, with its mind continuum, how can we know if it is a continuation of the mind of a dead person, or a completely new mind continuum?  If reincarnation is true and the mind continuum passes from one dead body to a new one,  how does this take place?  SURELY not by any means known to science.  It SURELY cannot be measured by any scientific instrument that we know about. And we know a lot about nature.  Then...  then... how can we be sure that this reincarnation really happens?   If it does, should it not be something "supernatural"?  We know that there is no limit to the speculations we can to do with a "supernatural".  isn't science fiction full of it?

 

And what has causality to do with all this?  The principle of cause and effect applies to the natural.  The only reason to suspect that it escapes to the supernatural is a feeling of "justice",  that the causes either good or bad need to resolve into an effect, even if the life of the person ends before this can happen.   But this idea of reincarnation loses much of its appeal if we accept that there is no absolute "justice".  Nature does not care about "justice".  Could "justice" be only an "empty" feeling that exists in our mind while we are alive?

.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Steve5380

[TT2880]

Part 5 of 6

Meditation on Emptiness 

 

 🌱Let’s start.

1️⃣Relax. Sit in the comfortable position. Close your eyes. Do a concentration meditation for a few minutes.

2️⃣When the mind is calm and focused, create an altruistic motivation for the meditation session. Think that you are meditating not just for your own well-being or peace of mind or good reputation, but you are taking the time now to meditate and develop the wisdom of emptiness in order to attain the state of enlightenment where you can most skillfully benefit all beings and lead them as well from suffering and to enlightenment.

3️⃣Now think “I,” “I.” Allow the feeling of “I” to grow. Focus on the sense of “I,” or “me.” One way to bring up this sense of I is to generate a strong emotion ... for example, bring to mind an instance in which you felt strong anger or strong fear. Now allow a small part of your mind to subtly act as an observer, observing this sense of I.

3️⃣How does the I appear? As one with the body? As completely separate from the body? As one with the mind? As completely separate from the mind?Let’s investigate.
What is this I? Is it the body? The whole body? A part of the body? Is it the head? The heart? The brain? If it is any of these things, how could then we say “my head,” or “my heart,” or “my brain,” or even “my body”?

4️⃣Now think: Is the I the same as the body, or is the I the “possessor” of the body? If the I is not the same as the body, is it completely different? If the I is the possessor of the body, does that mean it is completely independent of the body? Something separate?

5️⃣Can the I exist without the body? Think about this.

6️⃣Now think: Is the I the same as the mind, that which perceives and thinks and experiences, both perceptually (through the 5 senses) and conceptually (through thinking)? Is the I the same as the whole mind? Which part of the mind?

7️⃣If the I is the same as the mind, why do we say “my mind”? Is the I completely different from the mind? Completely independent of the mind? Something separate?

8️⃣The appearance of the I as something completely independent of the mind and body is a complete illusion. It is a completely false appearance.

 

This false appearance is the root of our 
samsara and our suffering. This false 
appearance is completely deceptive, and the I that appears to exist in this false way DOES NOT EXIST AT ALL. Thus, the very subtle I that does exist (conventionally) is COMPLETELY EMPTY OF THIS FALSE WAY OF EXISTING. The I is completely empty of independent existence, or of inherent existence. The I is a mere imputation, a mere label, that depends on the base of the body and mind.

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

 

[Steve5380]

29 minutes ago, TT2880 said:

Part 5 of 6

Meditation on Emptiness 

 

 🌱Let’s start.

1️⃣Relax. Sit in the comfortable position. Close your eyes. Do a concentration meditation for a few minutes.

2️⃣When the mind is calm and focused, create an altruistic motivation for the meditation session. Think that you are meditating not just for your own well-being or peace of mind or good reputation, but you are taking the time now to meditate and develop the wisdom of emptiness in order to attain the state of enlightenment where you can most skillfully benefit all beings and lead them as well from suffering and to enlightenment.

3️⃣Now think “I,” “I.” Allow the feeling of “I” to grow. Focus on the sense of “I,” or “me.” One way to bring up this sense of I is to generate a strong emotion ... for example, bring to mind an instance in which you felt strong anger or strong fear. Now allow a small part of your mind to subtly act as an observer, observing this sense of I.

3️⃣How does the I appear? As one with the body? As completely separate from the body? As one with the mind? As completely separate from the mind?Let’s investigate.
What is this I? Is it the body? The whole body? A part of the body? Is it the head? The heart? The brain? If it is any of these things, how could then we say “my head,” or “my heart,” or “my brain,” or even “my body”?

4️⃣Now think: Is the I the same as the body, or is the I the “possessor” of the body? If the I is not the same as the body, is it completely different? If the I is the possessor of the body, does that mean it is completely independent of the body? Something separate?

5️⃣Can the I exist without the body? Think about this.

6️⃣Now think: Is the I the same as the mind, that which perceives and thinks and experiences, both perceptually (through the 5 senses) and conceptually (through thinking)? Is the I the same as the whole mind? Which part of the mind?

7️⃣If the I is the same as the mind, why do we say “my mind”? Is the I completely different from the mind? Completely independent of the mind? Something separate?

8️⃣The appearance of the I as something completely independent of the mind and body is a complete illusion. It is a completely false appearance.

 

This false appearance is the root of our 
samsara and our suffering. This false 
appearance is completely deceptive, and the I that appears to exist in this false way DOES NOT EXIST AT ALL. Thus, the very subtle I that does exist (conventionally) is COMPLETELY EMPTY OF THIS FALSE WAY OF EXISTING. The I is completely empty of independent existence, or of inherent existence. The I is a mere imputation, a mere label, that depends on the base of the body and mind.

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

 

 

There is something you can add to your long list of meditation tasks ( which are not a source of headaches? )

 

As soon as we reach the meditative state, we should give thanks!  Thanks for what we have, what we are, for having a mind able to meditate,  for being healthy, thanks to those who have helped us, etc.

[TT2880]

Part 6 of 6

Meditation on the concept of "Me" and "I"

 

1️⃣Lets ask ourselves a question: What is I? Try to find where this “I” is located? Just try to observe your understanding of the concept of I. Is it in your head, your body, is it separate from you? Is it the same I when you were little?

2️⃣Observe your thoughts. Are your thoughts and mind the true “you”?
We have thousands of different thoughts in our head. Do we invite all of them? As we look closer, we find that we neither invite our thoughts nor own them. We might even wish them to stop, but our thoughts seem to think “their own life”, arising and passing according to their nature.

‼️You can’t stop thinking.

3️⃣The same is true of our feelings. How many of us believe we control our feelings? As we pay attention, we see that they are more like the weather, moods and feelings change according to certain conditions, and are neither possessed nor directed by our consciousness or desires. Do we order happiness, sadness, irritation, excitement, or restlessness to come? Feelings arise by themselves, as the breath breathes itself, as sounds sound themselves.

4️⃣Is your body the place where the true “ you” is hiding? Our body, too, follows its own laws. The body which we carry is a bag of bones and fluid that belong to no one. It ages, gets sick, or changes in ways we might not wish it to, all according to its own nature. The more we look, in fact, the more deeply we see that we possess nothing within or without.

 

5️⃣So who am I?
Think who you truly are, without what people think about you, and your own false misconceptions.

‼️You are a great verity of things, thought and emotions together, truly and deeply interconnected with everything around you.
Your thoughts are not you, your emotions are not you, your friends are not you, your body is not you.

After some time of deep meditation and realization of no-self concept, we will come to the realization that all things are joined and conditioned in an interdependent arising.
You can change and can be anything and everything. You are born without any particular way of thought or set of emotion.

6️⃣Start now, not tomorrow.

 

Source: Buddhaland.me (Instagram)

 

May All Be Well Happy Peaceful. 🙏

[TT2880]

Hello.

 

Here is a documentary on The Buddha. Please enjoy. 

 

https://youtu.be/aWvI2WZJjwE

 

Thank you. 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by TT2880

[TT2880]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:36 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

There is something you can add to your long list of meditation tasks ( which are not a source of headaches? )

 

As soon as we reach the meditative state, we should give thanks!  Thanks for what we have, what we are, for having a mind able to meditate,  for being healthy, thanks to those who have helped us, etc.

Thank you!

😁

🙏

 

Clarification: by being polite does not mean that I am agreeable with you. But that said, I am not in disagreement with you. Thank you. 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by TT2880

[Steve5380]

On 10/16/2020 at 10:30 PM, TT2880 said:

Thank you!

😁

🙏

 

Clarification: by being polite does not mean that I am agreeable with you. But that said, I am not in disagreement with you. Thank you. 

 

 

Clarification:  I suggested that we should add an action of giving thanks during meditation  not for any reasons of politeness, but to inspire our feeling of love for having been blessed with that what we give thanks for.   

[TT2880]

一切在于自己的看法。

我覺得「信心」很重要。雖然人世間有時候很黑暗、很負面，但我們不要放棄自己對自己的信心，要堅持、勇敢面對複雜的事，能夠有勇氣去面對世間的黑暗，有勇氣以正面的心去面對負面的人世間，我覺得這樣比較重要，這樣慢慢就可以成就自己想要成就的。
 

一旦真的陷入負面情緒時，雖然有點晚了，可能就要努力提起精神。「幸福與否」不是在于「是否擁有」，這取決于自己如何看待此事。簡單來說，你認爲這是壓力，就變成壓力；你認爲是辛苦，就真的變得很辛苦；你認爲不算辛苦，就不再是辛苦；你認爲沒有壓力，就不再會有壓力。每個人對事情的看法不一，導致的結果也不相同。

 

～大寶法王噶瑪巴新書《法王說不動佛》
 

[Steve5380]

Now that Pope Francis is in the news due to his support for same-sex unions,

what is the position of Buddhism in regard to same-sex unions?

[Why?]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

Now that Pope Francis is in the news due to his support for same-sex unions,

what is the position of Buddhism in regard to same-sex unions?

Buddhism has never been against LGBT nor hurting nor killing of any kinds.  Not in any scriputures, mantra or thoughts.  Not 2500 years ago, not now either.  It is all about kindness, wisdom and compassion.  I hope you find this deep rooted belief useful if you have not already understood.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Why? said:

Buddhism has never been against LGBT nor hurting nor killing of any kinds.  Not in any scriputures, mantra or thoughts.  Not 2500 years ago, not now either.  It is all about kindness, wisdom and compassion.  I hope you find this deep rooted belief useful if you have not already understood.

 

I assume that Taoism is not much different than Buddhism in matters of kindness, wisdom and compassion.

 

How can one explain then,  that with more than half the population of Singapore being Buddhist or Taoist, 377A is still in the books?  Why you people let a homophobic minority dictate the laws and take control of your lives?  Why haven't you already legalized same-sex unions,  if so much kindness, wisdom and compassion prevail? 

[Guest Good religion]

12 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

y haven't you already legalized same-sex unions,  if so much kindness, wisdom and compassion prevail? 

Unlike Christian and Muslim. Buddhism is not an intrusive religion.  Which explains why LKY like this religion more than other religion and warn the next generations of leader to guard against the festering of Muslim and Christian in politics. S377A has nothing to do with Buddhism. Our current weak leader has insecurity syndrome and allowed itself to be subdued by intrusive Christian group who took up a number of position within the govt system.

[esel]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I assume that Taoism is not much different than Buddhism in matters of kindness, wisdom and compassion.

 

How can one explain then,  that with more than half the population of Singapore being Buddhist or Taoist, 377A is still in the books?  Why you people let a homophobic minority dictate the laws and take control of your lives?  Why haven't you already legalized same-sex unions,  if so much kindness, wisdom and compassion prevail? 

I think this matter isn't as simple as just being Buddhist or Taoist.

 

Quote > "How can one explain then,  that with more than half the population of Singapore being Buddhist or Taoist, 377A is still in the books? "

Firstly, most of those who identify as Buddhist do not understand nor practice Buddhism as per its philosophy, likewise for Taoism. In reality, a majority of "Buddhists" and "Taoist" practise traditional Chinese religion which is a "rojak" (salad) of ancestral worship, folk Taoism, Mahayana Buddhism and value systems which are influenced by Confucian traditions and cultural norms. Hence their views are influenced by more than just Buddhism or Taoism.

    - By the way, [1] The Taoist Federation of Singapore neither supports nor condemns Pink Dot activities.

 

Secondly, a substantial population of Singapore are Christians and Muslims. The authorities being careful not to rock the boat, seem to be taking a safe and pragmatic approach. Thus the status quo is maintained and 377A retained. The data below is dated but sufficient to demonstrate that a substantial population (33%) identify as Christians or Muslims. 

 

[2] Department of Statistics Singapore

 

Quote > "Why you people let a homophobic minority dictate the laws and take control of your lives?  Why haven't you already legalized same-sex unions,  if so much kindness, wisdom and compassion prevail?" 

In the Singaporean context, as in many other countries, we can guess the religious affiliations of those who oppose LGBTQ+ issues. They are extremely loud and make no qualms about drowning all discourse with their voices. And as Guest Good religion stated, "Buddhism is not an intrusive religion". It rarely seeks to impose its religious philosophy on public policies. And on occasions where it stands up - [3] The Buddhist Fellowship voiced support for the repeal of 377A, it is drowned out again and again by those loud opposing voices. 

 

* In short, I guess i just wanted to say that the matter of repealing 377A is not as simple as "the majority of Singaporeans being Buddhist & Taoist and so should.......". 

I hope you find it somewhat informative. 😅 

 

[1] https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/seeing-red-and-white-after-pink-dot

[2] Department of Statistics Singapore, “General Household Survey (GHS) 2015: Religion.”  https://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/ghs/ghs2015content

[3] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/buddhist-fellowship-president-supports-section-377a-repeal-in-spirit-of-care-empathy-and

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by esel

[fab]

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Buddhism_vs_Taoism

 

The issue in sg, especially ethnic chinese,  is not so much of religion,  but rather,  majority of them are conservative and traditional. 

[wilfgene]

6 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I assume that Taoism is not much different than Buddhism in matters of kindness, wisdom and compassion.

 

How can one explain then,  that with more than half the population of Singapore being Buddhist or Taoist, 377A is still in the books?  Why you people let a homophobic minority dictate the laws and take control of your lives?  Why haven't you already legalized same-sex unions,  if so much kindness, wisdom and compassion prevail? 

I assume noBody fills you in on one very important exhortion of the 'greater' vehicle sects, celibracy.  Hence, the Taoist scripture of 'Laozi 化胡(annihilating barbarians)' in which after bidding farewell to the gatekeeper, he reached South Asia and turned into Buddha.  That in turn emulated by the Manchurian Emperors' proselyting the Yellow Hat church in Tibet and Mongolia.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by wilfgene

[wilfgene]

4 hours ago, fab said:

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Buddhism_vs_Taoism

 

The issue in sg, especially ethnic chinese,  is not so much of religion,  but rather,  majority of them are conservative and traditional. 

After abandoning the Chinese education stream, don't you find it quite ironic?

Edited October 24, 2020 by wilfgene

[fab]

6 hours ago, wilfgene said:

After abandoning the Chinese education stream, don't you find it quite ironic?

 

The chinese stream only abandons the chinese language.

 

Most of these homophobic beliefs are taught at home.