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Is It Better To Declare Gay / 302? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

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I didn't.

But from what I know, if you admit, they should have some tests to affirm whether you are telling the truth or not.

If it is, then they will make special arrangements for you to be downgraded and to be a clerk. You will not be sleeping and bathing with the other guys. Basically, you will be separated. If there is no one else in your camp that admitted, then you will be alone.

This record will stay with you forever. I am not sure who will get to know of this record and what impact it will bring. Your employers might get to know especially if they are from the Civil Service.

My advice is not to admit so that you can still stay with all the other guys. Isn't that better? :P And with the youth being so liberal nowadays, you might be having more fun. Just like so many people had wrote about their experiences in their camps.

Anyway, what is your reason for thinking of admitting?

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Well thinking about the tough training makes me wanna admit to being gay, cause I know that they'll send you to be a clerk. I want to have a slack time in NS..

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ohh... someone fear of NS.... well, being completed NS since 1998, maybe I can give u some opinions...

Think of NS as training for your physical well-being. The training may be tough but it is rewarding. I had the same fear as u before, but after going through 2.5 years of NS life, I was fitter (now, I am chubby liaos.... too lazy to train :P ).

Also, think of it this way. When u are fitter and well-toned, u may be more attractive and become more appealing to many guys (and uncles).... :D:P

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yeah i know tt it'll be good physically. i just wonder if i'll be able to pull through and if i would even make friends there.

people from the civil service means what ah?

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Guest Guest

haha,now NS training compare to last time consider real " Chicken ",yet some ppl still want to try to " cheat " & to be a " guo nian " :P ,haha,Merry Christman & happy new year

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hurhur. sorry but i consider myself a man. i'm just not into losing my individuality and backing down to stupid commanders like you.

and singapore's NS is one of the worst in the world.

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Guest Guest

huno,if really what your say,since singapore is the worst in the world,why you say it's tough,is it you are the worst sissy in the world? :P Have you check the training in Taiwan ,china etc?Kindly dun make yourself so stupid neside already worst sissy,oh sorry,should address you a sissy man :whistle:

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Guest Wondering

Does anyone know what happens if I declare myself 302 as an NSman (reservist)? Do they stop calling you for ICT etc, or call you back without allowing you to stay-in, or no change at all?

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Guest Wondering
Does anyone know what happens if I declare myself 302 as an NSman (reservist)? Do they stop calling you for ICT etc, or call you back without allowing you to stay-in, or no change at all?

Oh and also whether they subject you to some psychological tests or interview your friends/family...

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that depends on whether you are intending to out yourself.

from what i know, declaring 302 in NS will have record in the govt.

before you decided, read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_Singapore

yawning bread gave an interesting blog declaring 302 to SAF (heck most of his writing are interesting)

http://www.yawningbread.org/guest_2002/guw-081.htm


:thumb: When I Think It, I Do It, I Win It! :thumb:

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Guest Liptontea

oralb: You can declare yourself as Effeminate Homesexual (SAF term 302) with a classification of A/B or F. Depending on how your doctor's letter written to the Board of Medical Officers in the SAF. By doing so, you may need to see a phystratrist to certify deem fit that you are Effiminate Homesexual. Not all declared 302 will be exempted from NS call-ups, but it all depends on the unit whether to keep you in the unit or to post you out of the unit and place you u under the holding strength.

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Guest Thunder Boy

Hi,

I got a burning question to ask everyone.

Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

I guess my acting looks to real that know one know that I am gay.

All these while, I have been behaving like how a straight guy should behaves.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

But I am sick of doing or this things. I am sick of pretending and acting. I just don't feel myself doing all this things. I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

I need advice and opinions about this... :huh:

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Guest loner

my sentiments exactly.

however, i would advise you NOT to declare 302. just tahan 2 years, i dont think it's worth it.

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Hi,

I got a burning question to ask everyone.

Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

I guess my acting looks to real that know one know that I am gay.

All these while, I have been behaving like how a straight guy should behaves.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

But I am sick of doing or this things. I am sick of pretending and acting. I just don't feel myself doing all this things. I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

I need advice and opinions about this... :huh:

I really advise against it. Although you MAY be able to excuse yourself from the 2 years (psychiatrist letter needed), the question will pop up somewhere down the road. Especially when you apply up for a job/school. What will you say when asked "Why did you not serve National Service?", and depending on your reply may reflect badly on you and/or affect your application.

In my humble opinion, just do the 2 years and 10 years reservist cycle and move on after that.

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i think you should listen to someone who has declared 302 before.

i have. and i regretted NOT doing so EARLIER!!!

however, i am not sure now if it is still worth it, but if you wanna declare, pls do so before BMT!!!

and also, they do not discriminate you, cos after i declare, i could still teach in school, go uni, etc..., and also apparently, other govt dept dunno...

in my opinion, it was the best thing i have ever done, cos i have NO RESERVIST!!! hahahahahaha

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Guest Guest

Pls do not declare 302. I'm strongly against it as well.

What is your main purpose of declaring 302? So that you will have an easier NS life? Not true at all in the recent years. I heard SAF is starting to relax the rules and as long as you are medically fit, you will still be in combat and go outfield etc. Not sure whether you need to serve reservist but come on, reservist is like a holiday camp, it's more like a break from working life and stress. Reservist is good for networking and making friends, there is totally nothing to worry about.

By declaring 302, it's like a mark in your life. Its a government record for your whole life. Come on, why do you wanna get identified and marked? It works the same as a criminal record. I dun think you will be able to work in the civil service. You might say no big deal, you are not going to work for the government. But who knows? You still have many decades to go. Even big MNCs or big private companies will check your record with the government. Why get yourself into all these?

Trust me, there are so many closetted gays in the SAF. Even your PC or the hot captain you saw might be gay. But nobody declare. It's just plain stupid. Just blend in with the rest. Before you know it, you will be looking forward to ORD. You dun wanna regret for the stupid choice you make in the 2 years.

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i think you should listen to someone who has declared 302 before.

i have. and i regretted NOT doing so EARLIER!!!

however, i am not sure now if it is still worth it, but if you wanna declare, pls do so before BMT!!!

and also, they do not discriminate you, cos after i declare, i could still teach in school, go uni, etc..., and also apparently, other govt dept dunno...

in my opinion, it was the best thing i have ever done, cos i have NO RESERVIST!!! hahahahahaha

I agreed with trevorcantona.

I declared 302 before I served BMT and I did a modified BMT and later was posted to a clerical vocation.

After I finished my NS, there was no reservist or IPPT and I went on to get a sponsored education from the govt and later went on to work in Govt service for 5 years. After which I went on to work in a Stat Board for another 3 years, all without any issues. It seems that 302 status will not be made known to other Govt depts after your NS.

However do note that when you declare 302 during pre-enlistment check up or during NS, you will be sent for a psychiatric assessment and your parent will be called up for an interview on your sexual orientation.

At the end of the day, you have to understand your intentions of declaring 302 and you will have to face the consequences of coming out to your parents and immediate family.

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Personally I dont think u should.

Also, as far as i know, only transexuals are excused from reservists, not all 302 cases are.

Edited by fab

鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

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What is your main purpose of declaring 302? So that you will have an easier NS life? Not true at all in the recent years. I heard SAF is starting to relax the rules and as long as you are medically fit, you will still be in combat and go outfield etc. Not sure whether you need to serve reservist but come on, reservist is like a holiday camp, it's more like a break from working life and stress. Reservist is good for networking and making friends, there is totally nothing to worry about.

By declaring 302, it's like a mark in your life. Its a government record for your whole life. Come on, why do you wanna get identified and marked? It works the same as a criminal record. I dun think you will be able to work in the civil service. You might say no big deal, you are not going to work for the government. But who knows? You still have many decades to go. Even big MNCs or big private companies will check your record with the government. Why get yourself into all these?

Trust me, there are so many closetted gays in the SAF. Even your PC or the hot captain you saw might be gay. But nobody declare. It's just plain stupid. Just blend in with the rest. Before you know it, you will be looking forward to ORD. You dun wanna regret for the stupid choice you make in the 2 years.

1. i agree that nowadays the benefit not so good liao, but it is still worth a try. if you wanna keng, say that you kanna bully and others called you ah gua (tat is how i forced through my case hmmm...)

2. it is not a mark in your life and other companies will not check. cos you still served NS and you can always jus say medical reason. anyway, if a company does not accept ajs, i say dun work for them.

3. it is not stupid to declare. looking back, it is retarded NOT to declare and even more intellectually challenged to suggest that it is stupid to declare, all from someone who has never had the actual experience of declaring!!!

4. and it is this kind of attitude that has condoned 377A to be kept!!! if we amongst ourselves are scared of telling others who we are, who are we to ask others to accept us?!?! :swear:

Edited by trevorcantona

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Guest Guest

You mentioned you are closeted, as pointed by another poster if you declare 302, they invite parents down for an interview as well. So, the most important you have to ask yourself are you ready to be "out", are your family and friends to accept your sexuality and are you ready to out yourself to them?

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Guest amidst_the_stars

Hi,

I got a burning question to ask everyone.

Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

I guess my acting looks to real that know one know that I am gay.

All these while, I have been behaving like how a straight guy should behaves.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

But I am sick of doing or this things. I am sick of pretending and acting. I just don't feel myself doing all this things. I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

I need advice and opinions about this... :huh:

If you are brave enough to withstand the possible onslaught of discrimination , and wanna be excluded(OCS, BMT, SISPEC, Field Camp) from the grinds of what encompasses a typical NSF experience in the course of their 2 years, then declare.

But personally I don't think you should. NS can be a memorable/shitty experience in some ways or another and if u declare, it's equivalent to Tara going back to the meds to stop her personalities from emerging , however numbing herself of the way she experiences life in return(wiki United States Of Tara if you don't get my point).

I understand your predicament, you are sick of acting and putting up a facade in front of others. However many ajs have manage to do that and survive NS, albeit making good friends along the way. If you wish to declare, I will applaud you for your bravery to be true to yourself but like the Guest mentioned, you must be prepared to not only out yourself to SAF, but to your parents as well because they will definitely be invited down for an interview in regards to your declaration.

I hope you will make the choice that you can be most comfortable with. Ganbatte.

Edited by amidst_the_stars

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Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

mind asking, What's really on your mind?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

Gay just because like man, beside that nothing different from the rest.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

is it so difficult & ashame to say " NO " gf? you don't need to be loud & tell everyone your true identity, not all straight guys like to gossip & talk dirty.

I am sick of pretending and acting... I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

just frank to yourself, you intend to declare cos you want to be honest or you want to be more relax there & " escape " from reservist only, i think the answer is within you, balance it & make a wise decision, good luck

Edited by snowball

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Guest alien

If u r str8 acting and no one know that u are gay from your behaviour, i dun think u need to declare 302. If u want to declare 302 just to escapr reservist, i feel it is not a "wise" decision. Just go and complete 2 yrs of ns and then reservist. Sometimes it is quite an memories having going thru the entire life in the army.

Anyway, if u are sick of those conversation having to pretend girls talk with your army mates, i think u just have to accept it if u dun intend to let others know tht u are gay. Even later part of your life when u start working, u still have to face the same situation with your colleague and bosses.

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I been to quite a few forum and read on their NS post. It seem like majority of the teenager at ur age when they need to enlist NS, they always have the mind of hmmm... scared? afraid? or etc.. before they enlist or going to enlist.

Actually going NS is just a new stage of life that we need to go through. (except the gals)=X

After NS will be another stage of life and so on...

To your question, it seems like to me you want to escape the 2yrs NS, reservist and IPPT. Ofcos, many pple will says this NS is a waste of time to all mens life. Frankly speaking, going through this NS can let us turn more mature into looking at things and other benefits as well.

I dont see the purpose of declaring 302. It seem to me you only want ur 2yrs NS life to be relax and no physical training torture, after 2yrs say bye bye to NS forever.

As u also mention you're sick of pretending and acting, and just don't feel urself doing all this things. Actually you can do it immediately or on the next minutes to your friends and family and why must u wait for the day when u going to enlist NS???

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I don't think Thunder Boy said anything about eschewing NS. He merely wanted to know the risks and benefits thereof.

Personally, I don't understand the purpose of declaring - kinda daft. Does anyone declare they are heterosexual? No. So why does anyone need to identify their sexual orientation if different? For this reason alone, I wouldn't declare it. BUT, that's not to say you need to live the lie anymore. You can still come out to people that matter to you - own time, own target, really!

The govt (and army) worry that we will give secrets away for fear of exposure through some blackmail scheme perhaps. The reason your parents are called in, I suspect, is that with this declaration, you'd be out to the people you are most likely to worry about when threatened with exposure.

Govt already don't give two hoots about gays in public service (not yet politicians, perhaps), in the army, as long as you're able and fit, do they still let you off? Don't know leh.

Good luck, Thunder Boy - you sound wise enough to know what you really want.

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Guest Serve NS

i think you should listen to someone who has declared 302 before.

i have. and i regretted NOT doing so EARLIER!!!

Do your duty and serve NS!

Does not matter if you are gay or not.

As long as u are fit its your duty.

however, i am not sure now if it is still worth it, but if you wanna declare, pls do so before BMT!!!

and also, they do not discriminate you, cos after i declare, i could still teach in school, go uni, etc..., and also apparently, other govt dept dunno...

in my opinion, it was the best thing i have ever done, cos i have NO RESERVIST!!! hahahahahaha

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Hi,

I got a burning question to ask everyone.

Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

I guess my acting looks to real that know one know that I am gay.

All these while, I have been behaving like how a straight guy should behaves.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

But I am sick of doing or this things. I am sick of pretending and acting. I just don't feel myself doing all this things. I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

I need advice and opinions about this... :huh:

You said you are closeted yet you post your pic here for all to see.

Funny leh :unsure:

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I served my NS in the ministry.

As mentioned by all the good answers here, it depends on what you want - I might be regurgitating here, but to put it simply:

1. During your medical, if you declare, you will go through a Psychiatric examination. Medical officers will put you through a series of tests to determine if you are AJ.

2. Your parents will be informed and possibly interviewed.

3. Depending on how effeminate (ah kua) you are, you will be graded a PES status accordingly. You will probably go through a modified Basic Military Training and be posted to a vocation where you DO NOT need to stay in (means can go home everyday) - possibly a clerk or storeman. You will also not be posted to any sensitive units.

4. Your unit commanders will be aware of your condition (they will label you 302). Usually they will keep quiet about it.

5. I have not heard about 302 cases being excused from reservist - except those very effeminate ones or transexuals.

6. You will not be "marked" or "blacklisted" for life. As pointed out by many others, they can go on to govt jobs etc etc. All these rumours about blacklisting you and not allowing you to get married or stop you from getting govt jobs - all bullshit.

Having said that, you will miss out on alot of bonding and good times with your other platoon mates. While they are out chionging, you will be doing office work and missing out. If you really don't mind that, then by all means, go ahead. I've known of AJ friends in BMT who didn't declare, but behave in such an openly AJ manner that everyone sort of knew they are AJ. But they were still accepted and favoured by their superiors and unit people - simply because they work hard and excel twice as much as others.

Now you have the facts, it is your choice.

You can also declare halfway through NS - you'll be put through a psychiatric test too, and if needed, be posted out to another unit.

All the best:)

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Guest alien

I always heard if u declare 302, u will go through a psychiatric examination and the medical officers will put you through a series of tests to determine if you are AJ. I am wondering wht test wld they test u so that they can confirmed u r gay leh?

It is they ask a another gay to "seduce" u, and see whether u got hard or not? Or let u watch gay video and see whether u got hard and wet or not eh? Haha!

Anyway, i dun support declare 302, esp if u are str8 acting. Going thru ns with your platoon mates, surviving and sweat it out in all army training is fun lah.

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According to

Believer from Trevvy: your parents will not find out if you don't want them to. The mo has the responsibility of keeping it confidential. 1st hand experience.

http://www.trevvy.com/sgboyx/index.php?showtopic=29712


鍾意就好,理佢男定女

 

never argue with the guests. let them bark all they want.

 

结缘不结

不解缘

 

After I have said what I wanna say, I don't care what you say.

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sweetie.. im against u to declare 302 in NS too..

cos its not worth it like what the rest of them said. The NS will require u to ask a parent or family member down to verify your orientation. be a good boy, don declare. live with it. NS is more fun without declaring 302..

my kor (gay) he declared 302 right after BMT and stuffs happen, tho he say the psychitrist is hot. but not worth la.. from wad i see in the forum posts, 80% is against the idea of declaring 302 in NS. so ya, dont..

or ill squeeze u hahaha

Edited by GachiMuchi

(MSN) iloveyouboyboy_kissmehugme@hotmail.sg || (Boyahoy) Babycookiemonstee ||

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Declaring 302 is like coming out officially on paper.

If you're uncomfortable with it, it's better not to declare.

One guy in my unit declared 302 before.

Though I don't know what happened to him now,

he seems okay to me.

But it's still not advisable, since I think not everyone needs to know your sexual orientation.


Image00109.jpg

I'm always running after you.

You are my ideal.

You are me.

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Don't declare 302!!! Serving NS with the rest of the straight men was the most amazing and unforgettable experience of my life!!! And I've never regretted it!!! I came out of my 2 years in the army bending 2 straight guys to become my boyfriends, one after another, and even had my first gay anal sex with one of them. They were cute, young, hot bod but now married with children. Truthfully, it was an incredible period in my life where I realised the full potential of what it means to be gay. Of course, being gay is not just about bending straight guys but it's a good way to start when you've just come out to yourself at the sweet age of 18yo. I associate the feeling akin to the blossoming of a flower....a very gay flower :)


Only to lie like this between the bombs, dreaming away and not alone, because time was very short.

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Guest jayy

It never crossed my mind to declare. IMO, my sexual orientation is my business, definitely NOT the government's. Anyway, gay or straight it has nothing to do with the task at hand. Just answer the call of duty and tough it out for two years.

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Guest 313

Disadvantage : declaring 302 by law hereby do not allow you to bring BAR SOAP into the camp or any public bathrooms like gym shower, swimming pool showers etc to avoid any unwanted unintentional 'soap dropping' incidents.

lol joking ...

Just my input that by declaring 302, you can 'sin nang' become pes E and become clerk for the 2 years 3 months

On the other side , 302 cannot re declare his orientation which means maybe you are 40 years old and re think that you want to get married and settle down, as your sexual orientation may be bi after many years since 18 years old.. POSSIBLE

Some times jobs requires you to go for medical screening,, especially MNC .. the doctors will sometime ask which pes status are you during BMT, to look for traces of abnormalities , perhaps such as depression, diseases ... etc maybe your 302 may be noted down depending on situation of job scope

other than that I cant think of anything yet

But as long as you not super kua, or effeminate , there are many ajs and str mixed together. You can find good friends that last even after your service.

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sweetie.. im against u to declare 302 in NS too..

cos its not worth it like what the rest of them said. The NS will require u to ask a parent or family member down to verify your orientation. be a good boy, don declare. live with it. NS is more fun without declaring 302..

my kor (gay) he declared 302 right after BMT and stuffs happen, tho he say the psychitrist is hot. but not worth la.. from wad i see in the forum posts, 80% is against the idea of declaring 302 in NS. so ya, dont..

or ill squeeze u hahaha

LOL I agree with mr slimgayteen90 here. NS is an experience not to be missed

.

I certainly had incidents where I could have an excuse to get upclose n personal (emotionally/physically) with plenty of guys (mostly str8 though).

Chionging in the forest and experiencing shyt together forms a special bond (camaraderie?) between section/team/bunk/platoon mates etc that will never happen in a real world situation...Going thru hell together may not seem fun then, but it certainly gives you nostalgic memories to recall with ur frens. Tragedy bonds :thumb:

.

Though I was and still am str8 acting (well I'm bisexual for the record) I had frens who were open about their sexuality to some of us. Of course we gave them pet names n teased them but to my knowledge none of them were outed.

Other than NS, life will probably not give you another opportunity to get close with such a wide variety of guys.

.

I'm not saying you should do the same as the majority of us. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be too flippant about skipping the NS experience.

P.S. Staying in the closet can be hard at times but it does have its conveniences, trivial though they maybe...

.

Anyways we lie all the time, from the teeny weeny stuff to other impt matters, so merely concealing your sexuality shouldn't be a biggie imho. PPL often have masks n personalities that they wear on according to the time, place and circumstance there are in, regardless of their sexuality.

If u trust a fren then just go ahead n tell him or her that you're not into gals, I am into gals so I'm saved off this particular lie, but I still do have a few close str8 frens who know that I love guys too :whistle:


There's always another secret.

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Guest erm

hey anyone declared gay before ns, what will happen after that if you did?

just curious

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Guest brando

hey anyone declared gay before ns, what will happen after that if you did?

just curious

Everyone, including your parents, will know.

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Guest declared

You'll have to come back for a visit with their psychiatrist together with your parents.

i declared but did not informed my parents about the visit. Told the MO that they were overseas. Haha

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Guest brando

So they accepted that your parents are overseas and did not insist that they have to come to verify when they return?

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Guest alien

Wondering wht test did the MO test u if u declare 302? And from the tests they can confirm wht u have declared is true?!

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Guest Dumamay

I am a PR here and I will be enlisting early next month , I did thought of declaring but afraid that by doing so I won't be able to get my sg citizenship , is that so !??

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on the contrary, i had a super masculine, super beng, super "i only eat cunts so fxxk off you faggots" platoon mate back in bmt. he was the target board of everyone in the company for being stuck up and excessively chauvinistic.

Did u declare then?

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