Singapore's LGBTQ News & Section 377A Discussion (compiled)

[Guest sorry at start]

18 minutes ago, Steve Temp said:

I like Theo Li Ann's perfect example that a person who is mediocre at best can have impressive academic credentials.

There is another example here in the US:

Former president George W. Bush has a degree from Yale University and a MBA degree from Harvard Business School,

yet we all remember what a weak character and poor intellect he has.

Rich parents with powerful positions of much influence can make up for the lack of brains of their descendants.

 

It seems that poor Theo Li Ann was a victim of such influential mother, who also passed an extreme homophobia to her daughter.

.

 

Sorry to say, and I know you might be offended Steve, but the United States is run by money. If you donour vast contributions to a university in the US you might get your son receiving a honourable degree from a US university.

Therefore, for sons and daughters of rich people, the degree does not say much...

 

Which university would have had little Georgy failed after father Bush donated so much to the University fund?

[Guest don't forget]

2 minutes ago, Steve Temp said:

 

Agree 100% !  And I'm not offended, since this is a universal situation throughout nearly the entire world...

 

Sorry but not in Western Europe, we don't have this "donation" policy as universities are state operated and not private institutions.

[Guest don't forget]

compared to some other dumb presidents of the US, George Bush at least listened to his secretary of state and other secretaries or advisers, resulting in some halfway smart policy.

George Bush for sure was not reluctant to his administration advice and at least had his wife Laura as a last resort to advice him.

"Honey, can you just put your book you are reading to rest for a moment... what do you think, should I send my soldiers to Irak?"

 

The recent dumb president knows everything and would never ask his wife for any last resort advice, he would only ask his daughter who he thinks is smart...

"Honey, can you put your fashion magazine just to a short rest, your my sweet sweet darling. thanks. I just wanted to tell you that your tits look magnificent tonight... oh,. hm." (thinking: but they can't beat wild Stormy's).

 

That's the big difference.

[Guest guest]

 

its all about boobies , tits, and pussy if you ask Merkel.

[Guest Don't forget]

No Western European countries bulk up more and more debts (like the US) in that sense they are maybe run by money.

I meant the donating to universities. Maybe in the UK or Malta the universities are receiving the majority of funds by monies from donations, but most other countries the universities are like government institutions and do not rely so much on donations from the business or individuals. Though the Western European universities increased the moneys received from the industry for research projects or to pay for a research professor. but most funds for universities to operate are derived from the government budget.

that is why taxes are higher in Europe.

[Guest Don't forget]

No Western European countries bulk up more and more debts (like the US) in that sense they are maybe run by money.

I meant the donating to universities. Maybe in the UK or Malta the universities are receiving the majority of funds by monies from donations, but most other countries the universities are like government institutions and do not rely so much on donations from the business or individuals. Though the Western European universities increased the monies received from the industry for research projects or to pay for a research professor. but most funds for universities to operate are derived from the government budget.

that is why taxes are higher in Europe.

[Vometra]

Is it possible for one to be confucianist and christian? Cos Kek Boon Leong sure speakss like one with his "homosexual behaviour violates nature, heaven’s way and humanity".

Confucius got talk about heaven one meh?

 

Edit: ahhhh it seems heaven's way is 天理 , not exactly heaven per se ...

Edited October 11, 2018 by Vometra

[Guest Confused man]

10 minutes ago, Vometra said:

Is it possible for one to be confucianist and christian? Cos Kek Boon Leong sure speakss like one with his "homosexual behaviour violates nature, heaven’s way and humanity".

Confucius got talk about heaven one meh?

 

Edit: ahhhh it seems heaven's way is 天理 , not exactly heaven per se ...

He is leader in CONFUSIONism, indeed. 

[Guest Yay!]

50,000 intelligent souls signed.  Yay!!!

[lovehandle]

The baker won

https://bbc.in/2CB8zx1

 

making it the most expensive cake in history esp when so many of u commented abt it too

 

“But the bakery has always insisted its objection was to the message on the cake, not the customer.(he was their regular)”

  

 

Bakers r happy they won cos many of their supporters believe in freedom eg freedom of speech and beliefs

having an own prefce doesnt mean i discriminate against certain race/colour or...

[Guest guest]

7 minutes ago, -Ignored- said:

The baker won

https://bbc.in/2CB8zx1

 

making it the most expensive cake in history esp when so many of u commented abt it too

 

“But the bakery has always insisted its objection was to the message on the cake, not the customer.(he was their regular)”

  

 

Bakers r happy they won cos many of their supporters believe in freedom eg freedom of speech and beliefs

having an own prefce doesnt mean i discriminate against certain race/colour or...

 

good sense prevailed. 

 

respect goes both ways. 

 

you respect my freedim of speech . i respect your freedom of speech.

 

these hard up gay  SJW  cant they just buy a cake and decorate it anyway they want.

 

Better yet open a shop, rainbow friendly then buy a 3d printer or ccolor  cake printet and print any fucking greetings or vulgar message any customer ask for.

 

open your own rainbow bus iness yar

[Guest Strange]

Mindboggling. Does that mean when i ask a baker to write “happy birthday tom” on a cake, the bakers are wishing tom a happy birthday on a personal basis? 

 

Why does it become that personal and compartmentalisation not work when it comes to baking a cake with the “support gay marriage” message?

 

Cake baking is not even a high art of self expression. Why even complicate a simple business transaction of a bakery baking cakes?

 

Other businesses like nail art, tattoo artists can also reject requests for creating equality messages in that sense.

 

 

[Guest Strange]

Not as if “support gay marriage” is on the same level as “support hitler” or “support isis”.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

are you all questioning the reasoning and judgement made by a highly learned and qualifued judge that studies the interest of all stake holders.

 

 

[Guest Not hatred freedom meh]

3 hours ago, Guest guest said:

are you all questioning the reasoning and judgement made by a highly learned and qualifued judge that studies the interest of all stake holders.

 

 

The christian bakers lost and appealed thrice before winning, spending close to 50k quids paid for by a christian organisation.

 

Isn't that a mountain made out of a moldhill?

 

I cannot help but wonder if the bakers were hiding their personal distaste for gay marriage behind religion.

 

Will christian bakers be allowed to refuse baking cake for the celebration of buddha's birthday too?

 

There is no end to this.

[Guest Not hatred freedom meh]

Just now, Guest Not hatred freedom meh said:

The christian bakers lost and appealed thrice before winning, spending close to 50k quids paid for by a christian organisation.

 

Isn't that a mountain made out of a moldhill?

 

I cannot help but wonder if the bakers were hiding their personal distaste for gay marriage behind religion.

 

Will christian bakers be allowed to refuse baking cake for the celebration of buddha's birthday too?

 

There is no end to this.

Correction: long legal battle wasted close to 500k quids

[Guest as simple as that]

3 hours ago, Guest guest said:

are you all questioning the reasoning and judgement made by a highly learned and qualifued judge that studies the interest of all stake holders.

 

 

 

The case will probably go to the European Court of Human Rights. I can predict the outcome already.

 

Why do bakers need to bother what customers want to put on their cake? Some people will ask to put on a penis in the form of a banana, the baker owner who is a militant feminist will then refuse to do the order?

The Anglican bishop will ask for a "We love Jesus" drawing on the cake (in purple colour on yellow ground). The bakery assistant who is of Zarathustran belief will refuse to make the cake.

The job of a baker for celebrations cake is to prepare the cake according to the customer wishes.

It would have been better if he had refused on smarter grounds like "Sorry, we are full of orders until May 2019"...

[Guest guest]

1 hour ago, Steve Temp said:

 

I had the same reaction,  a HEAVEN in Confucianism?

But even the "violates nature" seems ill informed.  If a 5% of a species does not reproduce, this does not violate the need of the species to reproduce.

 

Havent you heard of freedom of conscience, its a term invented by the west and followed by people like yourselves,

 

its the freedom to believe in any ideas , religion or philosophy even its wrong or ridiculous,

 

Steve , haven't you forgotten , the west hold freedom of conscience as sacred, even more sacred than God himself,

 

are you contradicting yourself again.

 

[Guest don't forget]

16 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

 

Havent you heard of freedom of conscience, its a term invented by the west and followed by people like yourselves,

 

its the freedom to believe in any ideas , religion or philosophy even its wrong or ridiculous,

 

Steve , haven't you forgotten , the west hold freedom of conscience as sacred, even more sacred than God himself,

 

are you contradicting yourself again.

 

 

Everything from the West is always the bad thing...

Same old story, can't hear it anymore....

you are riding always on the same wave.

[Guest guest]

5 minutes ago, Nightingale said:

 

 

You sure have an axe to grind, always picking bones with Steve.  Why don't you get it off your chest and speak out your inner thoughts?

 

please , if you want to help, please argue with my point and present a counter argument. 

 

There is this thing called Freedom of conscience , right?

 

Do google and see what it mean and how I apply it to Steve' s statement. 

 

Have I used it wrongly ? 

 

 

[Guest guest]

1 minute ago, Steve Temp said:

 

I am not contradicting anything. I am all for freedom of expression, freedom of speech.

Guest guests have the right to express their beliefs, opinions, ideas, ideologies, thoughts, likes and dislikes,

and I have the right to challenge these beliefs, opinions, ideas, ideologies, thoughts, likes and dislikes

with my own beliefs, opinions, ideas, ideologies, thoughts, likes and dislikes.

 

 

Yes, the West is so evil!

It brought to the East electricity, cars, telephones, recorded music and video, digital communications like internet, airplanes, motorized ships, antibiotics, modern surgery, GPS, microwave ovens, and...  and... democracy after the French revolution.  It also brought tasty hamburgers and delicious French fries, chocolate ice cream, etc.

 

Did I argue against modernity , and modern inventions?

 

Look at the first paragraph you wrote. its what I have always said you people have always held sacred even more sacred than the creator.

 

I would like to state that what I have previously said was right , all along.

 

Do take note of the first paragraph above , Nightingale, have I maligned the writer, which you accused me of all kinds of malign.

[Guest guest]

11 minutes ago, Nightingale said:

 

Freedom of conscience – sometimes called “freedom of worship” or “religious freedom” – means simply the freedom to worship in one’s own way, including the right not to worship.

 

So tell us how or where did Steve contradict himself.  He did not advocate that people stop worshipping their gods.

 

I think readers can judge for themselves.

 

I just want to prevent people from falling for the sweet talk of someone who comes from the country who has absolute freedom of speech, this right of freedom of speech and all other leftist freedom is now coming back to bite them on the arse.

 

Do they have the pledge of Nation before self?

 

Nation before self, when it comes to the critical moment of decision. 

The state comes before the individual.

 

For them , its the other way around.

 

Its my constitutional rights comes before everything and everyone else. and all the constitutional amendments they like to blah blah blah , the first amendment, the fifth amendment, 

 

they forget that all these can be overwritten at critical junctures.

 

Dont get swayed by sweet talks about those absolute freedoms.

[Guest don't forget]

the topic is 377A and not anything else.

Get back to the topic and don't fall trap on this guest guest.

 

This guest guest just intends to disrupt and is probably running his personal competion on how many threads he got locked.

Don't get distracted, ignore him at let him bark to his own shadow...

[Guest 祖先保佑]

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

 “Wuhou” should be taken as an adjective to mean “not behaving like a son should” but has been distorted to become a verb “not to bear descendants”.

不孝有三，无后为大

https://baike.baidu.com/item/不孝有三，无后为大

千百年來被嚴重誤解 「不孝有三，無後為大」的真實含義是？

http://www.ntdtv.com/xtr/b5/2016/04/09/a1261580.html

 

yes hahah i almost wanted to correct you until i read til this part. let me add on a bit, it also means passing down moral values to descendants, instead of just give birth to babies. kudos for the info!

[Guest for you Steve]

11 hours ago, Steve Temp said:

 

Don't get swayed by the self-serving position of some individuals in the US who use "The Constitution" to defend their "freedom to bear arms", because they WANT to have arms. 

A Constitution is a compendium of laws, and with any laws there are good ones and bad ones.

 

Well, well, let us all see what kind of country our Steve  comes from,  America was started in the beginning with puritans from the old country of england and Ireland.

 

 

America is conservative at the core ,  the midwest , bible belt, rust belt and the south and deep south are deeply conservative, and most believe in the C religion , but with their own interpretation, and practice also their own way,   its a contradiction, that nowdays, kids and adults cannot show any manifestation of C religion, no crucifixes, no swearing by the bible, no preaching, but the same people will defend to the death for the brown skin minorities to practice their religion, to practice their culture, and have their head coverings. yet christmas is banned from schools.

 

We don't want this type of wishy washy Social Justice warriors ideas in this part of the world, yet most of the Mega congregations religion comes directly imported from the good old yank.

[Guest for you Steve]

Guess who are the respondents who had a field day making fun of Rick Perry who was espousing the conservative values,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fix your own backyard before you claim my backyard is messy

[lovehandle]

too much time?
spend time reading: see how india do it despite their even MORE conservative society

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/how-conservative-india-repeal-section-377-ban-consensual-gay-sex-10823218?cid=fbcna
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video-on-demand/insight/india-s-historic-ruling-10817150?cid=fbins

[Guest Mandai Zoo]

8 minutes ago, -Ignored- said:

too much time?
spend time reading: see how india do it despite their even MORE conservative society

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/how-conservative-india-repeal-section-377-ban-consensual-gay-sex-10823218?cid=fbcna
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video-on-demand/insight/india-s-historic-ruling-10817150?cid=fbins

Ya I watched the 50 mins insight on CNA.  The show seems to put our govt and kangaroo to shame.  India court proved it has more independency in judgement than our kangaroo which always wait for our garment directions.  Sillypore is so lame.

[lovehandle]

1 minute ago, Guest Mandai Zoo said:

Ya I watched the 50 mins insight on CNA.  The show seems to put our govt and kangaroo to shame.  India court proved it has more independency in judgement than our kangaroo which always wait for our garment directions.  Sillypore is so lame.

glad that there are pp viewing it than to spend time on other things
sg is very backward and we dare to claim we are first world! sometimes , i felt it is really a joke

I felt so sorry for the Manoj (parents also refuse to believe him!) , even the lawyer is helpless!

[Guest Mandai Zoo]

10 minutes ago, -Ignored- said:

glad that there are pp viewing it than to spend time on other things
sg is very backward and we dare to claim we are first world! sometimes , i felt it is really a joke

I felt so sorry for the Manoj (parents also refuse to believe him!) , even the lawyer is helpless!

It is quite rare for msm to show what is happening to LGBT outside Singapore for a full 50 minutes.  Nothing was censored, every interviewers including the lawyers strongly voiced against keeping S377.  Shamugarum should feel ashame of himself after watching the show.

 

I love the part where one of them said: even if there is only ONE gay person in india, the country should still fight for the striking down of S377 in the name of equality and non discrimination on one minority.   That proves how advance  india is with that thought.  Hindusim far surpassed Christian in terms of GRACE.  No wonder there was rumour that Jesus did not go to the cross, but escaped to india to become a monk.

[lovehandle]

msm?
Or channel newsasia?

What did u call yourself a zoo?

Yes, the video emphasized that it is abt respecting diversity and inclusiveness! While i do not wish to go into religion (hindu temples do depict same sex relationship on their walls)
I m still viewing it now, once i saw such good production, i immed share it , i dont wish to see members spending time on other things

 

25 minutes ago, Guest Mandai Zoo said:

It is quite rare for msm to show what is happening to LGBT outside Singapore for a full 50 minutes.  Nothing was censored, every interviewers including the lawyers strongly voiced against keeping S377.  Shamugarum should feel ashame of himself after watching the show.

 

I love the part where one of them said: even if there is only ONE gay person in india, the country should still fight for the striking down of S377 in the name of equality and non discrimination on one minority.   That proves how advance  india is with that thought.  Hindusim far surpassed Christian in terms of GRACE.  No wonder there was rumour that Jesus did not go to the cross, but escaped to india to become a monk.

 

[Guest Indiana Jones]

Excellent documentary! It is not just extremely rare, I have never seen such truthful programming on lgbt rights on msm here before. It is like, unbelievable!

From I know majority of Indians are very cool when it comes to LGBT people. Their family orientated, conservative and traditional culture have no hang ups on such things. The rare ones who are "anti-lgbt" are the americanised christian indians. You could sense the fear coming out from their nostrils whenever they are near one of us like being near a monster!

[fab]

 

[Guest guest]

Religion have no monopoly on morality.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/religion-doesnt-have-monopoly-on-morality-x8qllnjpsd5

 

 

“RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE MONOPOLY ON MORALITY” ACCORDING TO ATHEIST ON BBC1 PANEL

 

https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/religious-people-not-monopoly-morality-according-atheist-bbc1-panel

 

 

No Religion Has a Monopoly on God's Truth, Clerics Assert

 

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-02-01/local/me-24465_1_religious-diversity

 

 

No One Has a Monopoly on Truth

 

https://reasonandmeaning.com/2014/02/05/no-one-has-a-monopoly-on-truth/

 

 

 

And the best one, Queen Elizabeth II, who is the head of the Anglican Church in England adn presumably the world Anglican Head,

 

and Btw, the Thios of Singapore also attends the Anglican church also.

 

Religious do not have monopoly on virtue, Queen tells synod

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/nov/23/queen-synod-virtue

 

 

 

 

 

 

The next time someone gets really fundamental and religious and starts to tell you , you are sinful

 

just shout right back at them

,

 

" You religious people have no monopoly on morality, truth and virtue, "

 

They will be stunned like vegetable,

 

[Sh3rlock]

[Guest 奶插播]

1 hour ago, Guest guest said:

 

Oooppss,  saying that part about being born in Nigeria in rebirth is considered racist for the most part and very elitist,  

 

what makes you in a position to say Nigeria and Africa in general is considered bottom of the heap anyway.

 

w

 

Who knows , the old hag may even enjoy being shagged by countless 8 inches and above of juju meat stick. Once she goes black , there is no turning back, as they say.

 

The blackest of the black.

https://goo.gl/images/jk2V9F

Omg 黑珍珠！My black prrrecccccioussssss! Tyra is soo gonna be out-blacked and dethroned.

[Guest guest]

26 minutes ago, Guest 奶插播 said:

Omg 黑珍珠！My black prrrecccccioussssss! Tyra is soo gonna be out-blacked and dethroned.

 

 

with a dick that is as thick as baseball bat and hard as a rock

[Sh3rlock]

[Guest NAR is cult]

Thio Li Ann and her ilk are part of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), which is regarded by some to be a shadowy cult in Christian disguise and has been described to be the Christian equivalent of Taliban. More people need to know about their existence and their insidious agenda. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117259426336524.html

 

America's own Taliban

A fast growing right-wing politico-religious presence plans to implement an end-times, Christian theocracy in the US.

by Paul Rosenberg

28 Jul 2011

Prior to 9/11, the Taliban government in Afghanistan did not register very much on American radar screens, with one notable exception: when it blew up two colossal images of the Buddha in Bamiyan province in early 2001. But destruction of treasured artifacts isn't just limited to the Taliban.

There's a right-wing politico-religious presence centred in the US, but with a global reach, engaging in similar practises, destroying religious and cultural artifacts as a key aspect of its ideology of "strategic level spiritual warfare" (SLSW).

Until recently a fringe evangelical movement, warned against as deviant, "spiritual warfare" is rapidly positioning itself within America's mainstream political right. It's well past time for political journalists to start covering what this movement is up to.

As an example, leaders have bragged online about the destruction of Native American religious artifacts, which their twisted ideology somehow sees as a liberating act, promoting "reconciliation" between estranged groups of people. Critics, however, see it as reflecting an eliminationist mindset, while traditional conservative evangelicals have denounced the ideology as un-biblical. Some even claim it is actually a form of pagan practice dressed up in Christian clothes, according such artifacts a spiritual power that the Bible itself denies.  

The ultimate goal is to replace secular democracy, both in America and around the world, with a Christian theocracy, an ideology known as "dominionism". The supposed purpose is to "purify" the world for Christ's return - again, strikingly similar to what the Taliban believe, but also significantly at odds with more common, long-standing Christian beliefs about the "end times", as well as the nature and purpose of prayer, and the roles of human and divine power.  

This description might seem utterly fantastical, but copious evidence for it is hidden in plain sight, scattered across the internet, in books, on YouTube, and tracked by a small community of researchers at sites such as  Talk2Action.org and RightWingWatch.org, as well as by evangelical critics. The question is: When will America's mainstream media catch up?

The missed story in the 2008 campaign

Known as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), a term coined by its intellectual godfather, C Peter Wagner, this movement surfaced in the 2008 campaign, with video of one of its most prominent practitioners, Kenyan witch-hunter Thomas Muthee, anointing Sarah Palin - but the mainstream media largely missed the real story on a number of counts.

They generally failed to realise that Muthee was part of a Western-based movement, indeed, he starred in the first "Transformations" video, a pseudo-documentary series advancing SLSW, advertised as having been seen by 200 million people in 70 languages.

Media also overlooked clear evidence that Palin herself was part of an Alaskan group involved in SLSW, dating back to when she was just 24 years old. More basically, media failed to grasp the radical nature of NAR, and its departure from earlier evangelical practice. This is so new that many academic experts haven't caught up with it. 

Additionally, many in the media relied on Charisma magazine for guidance - a publication deeply aligned with the NAR. Add this to the media's general skittishness when accused of bias by Palin and her supporters, and the result was a perfect storm of story suppression, much of it seemingly quite reasonable.  

A rare exception, which did not occur until very late in the campaign, was Laurie Goodstein's October 24 story in the New York Times, "YouTube Videos Draw Attention to Palin's Faith", which did discuss spiritual warfare and Palin's involvement, but barely brushed against the underlying agenda of dominionism and its more troubling implications.

The story this time

This election cycle, the media will have another chance to get the story right. The NAR has made great strides since 2008, and already, NAR figures are deeply involved in organising for Texas Governor Rick Perry's August 6 prayer meeting, "The Response".  

On July 12, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow did a segment highlighting some of their more bizarre claims in a series of video clips. These included Wagner saying that the Japanese stock market collapsed because the emperor had sex with a demon (the sun goddess), another leading NAR figure, John Benefiel, calling the Statue of Liberty "a demonic idol", and a third figure, Mike Bickle, calling Oprah Winfrey "a forerunner to the Harlot movement", or, as Maddow put it, a "harbinger of the antichrist".

But these aren't just a collection of random bizarre claims. As researcher Rachel Tabachnick - who's been studying NAR since 2008 - wrote the day after: "These video clips should receive much more national exposure, but they need to be viewed in context of the movement they represent."

Not your father's religious right

Encompassing a variety of organisations and networks of activist groups, the NAR is not just concerned about particular issues, such as abortion or gay rights, or even about so-called "values", which is the impression that even Goodstein's 2008 story left with readers.

Rather, the NAR is committed to replacing democracy with a religious dictatorship, which it sees as a necessary prelude for Christ's return to earth.

Consequently, the NAR is also openly dedicated to destroying religious and cultural groups who do not share their beliefs - even including others on the Christian Right. They openly denounce Mormonism and Roman Catholicism as demonic, but in the end all Protestant denominations are seen as impediments to creating one unified religious establishment which should in turn control all of society, entirely replacing America's secular democracy, and bringing about their own version of "one-world government". 

This is explicitly articulated in terms of what's known as the "Seven Mountains Mandate", which seeks to establish Christian dominance over seven culture-shaping spheres of activity: business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, family, and religion. On one of Muthee's several visits to Sarah Palin's church in Wasilla, he spoke for about ten minutes about the Seven Mountains Mandate.

The NAR's non-church, non-denominational apostolic/prophetic organisation is key to its recent rapid growth and its relative invisibility to outsiders, but it also departs significantly from traditional scriptural teachings long held dear by evangelicals, as do many of its teachings.

Indeed, in August 2000, the Assemblies of God, America's largest Pentecostal denomination, adopted a statement warning against a number of tendencies, under the heading "Deviant Teachings Disapproved", including, but not limited to, some prominent elements involved in the NAR. However, Tabachnick informed me that "unfortunately many in the Assemblies of God have changed their tune on this and embraced the NAR".

Yet many have not changed, and the warnings still serve to highlight how this latest development is not the same religious right wing as in your father's day.

One tendency warned against was dominionism itself, which the document called "unscriptural triumphalism". It also warned against "the problematic teaching that present-day offices of apostles and prophets should govern church ministry at all levels", and against "excessive fixation on Satan and demonic spirits". These are all major aspects of NAR theology, as is the concept of "generational curses", which the document also warns against.

In short, the NAR may be gaining substantial ground on the religious right, but in doing so, it is profoundly undermining a raft of biblical teachings that the vast majority of evangelicals have staunchly clung to until quite recently. This is, indeed, not your father's religious right. It is arguably destroying your father's religious right.

Strategic level spiritual warfare: A myth? A heresy? Or worse?

Because of the goal of gaining dominion over all of society, spiritual warfare to drive out demons who supposedly stand in the way of this goal plays a central role in NAR thinking. There are, three levels to spiritual warfare, as Talk2action.org explains in their glossary of NAR terms:

Ground level spiritual warfare is casting out demons from individuals. Occult level spiritual warfare is a confrontation with demons operating through witchcraft and esoteric philosophies (examples are Freemasonry and Tibetan Buddhism). Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare is the highest level, dealing with confrontation of territorial principalities that control entire communities, ethnic groups, religions, and nations.

While there are many evangelical critics of spiritual warfare and the NAR, and a great deal of material online, Bishop Michael Reid - who has three degrees from Oral Roberts University, including an honorary Doctorate of Divinity - literally wrote the book on the subject.

Although he's since had his own gay sex scandal - much like Wagner's long-time close associate, Ted Haggard - his 2002 book, Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare: A Modern Mythology? remains a devastating Bible-based critique, in which he writes, regarding SLSW:

"There is no foundation in the Old Testament for this practice, nor any indication that the devil has any intrinsic power or authority. Satan's only weapon is deception and his only sphere of influence that which God permits for His own eternal purposes.

"In the New Testament, the picture is similar; there is no evidence to suggest that Christians are called to engage in an on-going conflict with spiritual forces in the cosmic realm. The Scripture is quite clear in its teaching that Christ defeated Satan completely at Calvary and that Christians have been freed from his power."

Reid sees this unscriptural ideology usurping God's role and elevating mere mortals to a higher place - precisely the sort of thing that NAR's leading advocates accuse secularists of doing:

"The whole focus of SLSW is on the devil and his demonic host ... Man has become the fulcrum of redemption, holding the balance of power between God and the devil in the battle for the souls of men, and the gospel itself rendered impotent without the preliminary work of pulling down demonic strongholds ... These are serious matters which call into question the very basis of the Christian faith."

"The Harlot Babylon is preparing the nations to receive the antichrist. The Harlot Babylon will be a religion of affirmation, toleration, no absolutes, a counterfeit justice movement ... I believe that one of the main pastors as a forerunner to the Harlot movement is Oprah." Mike Bickle, NAR

In short, SLSW is implicitly about the egos of "spiritual warriors", rather than Christian humility.

Reid also repeatedly suggests that SLSW is actually pagan in origins, and thus a form of syncretism, the very sort of mixture between Christianity and older pagan religions that biblical literalists of all stripes abhor. For example:

"Hesselgrave draws the analogy between warfare prayer and the prayer typical of Indo-European paganism with its dualistic understanding of the eternal co-existence of good and evil. The latter is viewed as a means 'to control the gods', but, in contrast, prayer in biblical thought is 'submission' to God'.

The idea that spiritual warfare as practised by the NAR is itself a pagan practice, perhaps even a form of demonic battle or that it elevates man over God are perceived examples of what psychologists call "projection", an ego defence mechanism. 

But long before there were any psychologists, the Bible weighed in, Matthew 7:5: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." We turn now to another such example.

Oprah and the Antichrist - A case of projection?

On July 12, Rachel Maddow began the segment mentioned earlier with a video of NAR bigwig, Mike Bickle, in which he said:

"The Harlot Babylon is preparing the nations to receive the antichrist. The Harlot Babylon will be a religion of affirmation, toleration, no absolutes, a counterfeit justice movement. They will feed the poor, have humanitarian projects, inspire acts of compassion for all the wrong reasons. They won't know it ... I believe that one of the main pastors as a forerunner to the Harlot movement is Oprah."

Although Maddow naturally focused on the claim that Oprah was somehow a harbinger of the antichrist, it's arguably even more interesting that Bickle so accurately - if inadvertently - describes one of the NAR's own favourite practices, what it calls "reconciliation" between groups that are estranged from one another, be they ethnic, racial or nationalist. These often, but not always, involve the destruction of religious/cultural artifacts and are supposed to lift so-called "generational curses". 

One such example revolved around Kansas Governor Sam Brownback, formerly a US senator.

"Brownback has taken part in NAR 'Reconciliation' events since 2003, and subsequently introduced Senate resolutions apologising to Native Americans," Tabachnick wrote at Talk2Action.org last year. "These Reconciliation ceremonies are not about pluralism, but about proselytising - for both charismatic evangelical belief and right wing politics."

Eventually one such resolution was incorporated into legislation. On the other side, a number of Native American NAR leaders were involved in the ritual destruction of objects said to depict false gods. Given the centuries-long history of the many ways that Native American culture has been destroyed by white America, it is nothing short of absurd to claim that "reconciliation" can be brought about by further acts of cultural destruction. Yet, that is precisely what the NAR practices.

This is, at best, to use Bickle's own word, a "counterfeit" movement.

Another indication of how counterfeit such "reconciliation" is lies in just who represents each side. In this example, it was eventually the US government on one side, and a religious network of self-hating Native Americans on the other. If that seems a bit lopsided, it is more typical than not.

A similar pattern can be found in reconciliation rituals with "Jews" who are so-called "messianic Jews" - meaning they are actually practising born-again Christians. That's a bit like a "reconciliation" between Italian and Brazilian soccer fans, with the Brazilian fans being from the Italian embassy in Brasilia.   

In another case, religion wasn't even really a factor, as a small, private reconciliation ritual in Texas was performed to bring black people back to the Republican Party. In her book, Bridging the Racial and Political Divide: How Godly Politics Can Transform a Nation, Alice Peterson describes how Susan Weddington, then chair of the Texas Republican Party, organised the ritual.

When the time came, Peterson wrote, she expected Weddington to ask forgiveness for whatever White Republicans had done - she seems to have no idea what that might have been. Instead, Weddington asked forgiveness for the Black Republicans who left the party.

Nowhere in Peterson's account is there any hint that Blacks became Democrats when Democrats renounced their racist past during the civil rights struggles of the 1950s and 1960s, and Republicans eagerly wooed tens of millions of White Democrats who fled their party as a result. In short, such make-believe "reconciliation" has nothing to do with spiritual truth, and everything to do with historical lies.

Work to be done

If this all seems a bit overwhelming, that's only because it is.

If the media had taken a serious critical look at Palin's religious beliefs and practices in 2008, all the above and more could have been examined and discussed in detail over the past three years. As it is, there is a lot of catching up to do. 

There is no question that American political journalists are up to the task - if they put their minds to it. The only question is, will they do it? Will they dare to seriously consider the evidence of a Taliban-like movement in right-wing Christian America, seeking to impose its own form of "godly" government in place of the secular democracy established more than 200 years ago?

Journalists could begin to answer that question by taking a long hard look at the NAR figures endorsing Rick Perry's prayer event on August 6. Let's hope they do.

Paul Rosenberg is the Senior Editor of Random Lengths News, a bi-weekly alternative community newsletter.

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily represent Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

SOURCE: Al Jazeera

[Guest NAR is cult]

One of Thio Li Ann's NAR buddy being investigated for graft in Indonesia.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/jakarta-raids-home-of-lippo-deputy-chairman-in-bribery-probe

[Cube3]

2 hours ago, Guest NAR is cult said:

One of Thio Li Ann's NAR buddy being investigated for graft in Indonesia.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/jakarta-raids-home-of-lippo-deputy-chairman-in-bribery-probe

 

What other Thio Li Ann scandals are there? Wondering...

[Guest Diabolical]

1 minute ago, Cube3 said:

 

What other Thio Li Ann scandals are there? Wondering...

That she is actually Satan in disguise?

Satan is a woah!man ?

[Guest Faustina]

8 minutes ago, Cube3 said:

 

What other Thio Li Ann scandals are there? Wondering...

Lawrence Khong is her son.... That she had a faustian deal with the devil to look forever young and mannish?

[Guest fudge packer]

 

Allegedly , Rick Perry on the left.

 

In their country , its masculine and macho to be pro gun.

 

Allegedly.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, we should leave them to dig their own graves, then they will fall into the pit themselves, without us breaking a sweat.

 

N.A.R.   sounds very close to their very own N.R.A.

 

https://home.nra.org/

 

 

 

Pro Gun, National Rifle Association,

 

The National Rifle Association is America's longest-standing civil rights organization. Together with our more than five million members, we're proud defenders ...

 

 

 

Watch the video below as it summarises the situation over there, as these crazed people including that big nose miss piggy is also stirring up the end of the world scenario through their beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

Loretta Lee Jackson a.k.a  as Charlie Hides the is a proud gun owner N.R.A. card holder and gun polisher too.

 

As you can see in the USA, N.A.R   and N.R.A. may be sharing the same bed. Allegedly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Heya]

I don’t think the repeal will happen. Singapore government will probably respect the views of the majority, which is unfortunately extremely traditional, even amongst the younger generation. With an increasing number of christians in Singapore this will just get harder. From what I’ve seen, Singapore Churches are almost all deeply conservative and believe literally what the bible says. 

[fab]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore

 

The abrahamic religions in SG is about 32%.

 

How can they be majority?

[Guest Hard truths]

37 minutes ago, Guest Heya said:

I don’t think the repeal will happen. Singapore government will probably respect the views of the majority, which is unfortunately extremely traditional, even amongst the younger generation. With an increasing number of christians in Singapore this will just get harder. From what I’ve seen, Singapore Churches are almost all deeply conservative and believe literally what the bible says. 

Singaporeans are stupid. Do we follow our country men in stupidity or we fight against it by continuing to ask for repeal, even though the backlash hurts some of the vulnerables in the LGBT community, and many of the bitchy and slutty gays in the community do not deserve equality and freedom?

[Guest Hard truths]

53 minutes ago, Guest Heya said:

I don’t think the repeal will happen. Singapore government will probably respect the views of the majority, which is unfortunately extremely traditional, even amongst the younger generation. With an increasing number of christians in Singapore this will just get harder. From what I’ve seen, Singapore Churches are almost all deeply conservative and believe literally what the bible says. 

 

The younger generation who are traditional and conservative sounds like an oxymoron to me, especially if they enjoyed hollywood films and western culture. 

 

They are more likely a teeny bunch of whiney, closeted and ball-less hypocrites, which frankly, i am very much disappointed and disgusted by!

[Guest fudge packer]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Bible sluts]

1 hour ago, Guest Heya said:

I don’t think the repeal will happen. Singapore government will probably respect the views of the majority, which is unfortunately extremely traditional, even amongst the younger generation. With an increasing number of christians in Singapore this will just get harder. From what I’ve seen, Singapore Churches are almost all deeply conservative and believe literally what the bible says. 

Yeah, they will literaly wolf the whole damn bible down their throats to boost their morality count, and literally pull moral put downs on gays from their butt holes in an arbitrary and trigger happy manner.